Guild Wars 2

^ I dont’ know I find it more elite for people to wait 2 hours to do wurm and keep trying just afking.

That is some hardcore people.

You said no to hardcore content. While the open world raid isn’t even design for casual.

I don’t mind hard core content. I don’t want to see it hidden away in instances, that’s all.

Problem is the game already has elitism in it. You make these raids instanced and turn a game where skins were supposed to be the reward into a gear reward type situation you’re going to lose a lot of your player base as the game isn’t solid enough to be a raiding type game like WoW is in that area. It will end up being elite guilds with nobody else around to see how “good” these guys are.

I have no clue why anyone would expect anything from anet in that kind of content. This game was designed for casuals so it’s silly to expect any kind of hard core content for organized teams. Everyone’s equal so everyone is allowed to participate, no matter his input and effort.

Vayne.8563:

I don’t mind hard core content. I don’t want to see it hidden away in instances, that’s all.

They are already hidden in instanced called “elite server only” and “TTS overflow”.

Please taxi me in there.

Not that I think there is any easy fix to the current problem.

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t mind hard core content. I don’t want to see it hidden away in instances, that’s all.

They are already hidden in instanced called “elite server only” and “TTS overflow”.

Please taxi me in there.

Not that I think there is any easy fix to the current problem.

Except anyone can join TTS and get taxied there. There’s no 40 player limit. Do you know how many times I was on the second overflow, and both beat Tequatl?

Agree with open world content. Do think ANet could work on scaling it better, overflows usually suffer from a lack of people (coordination is a bit iffy but some overflows are actually pretty organised). Hard content also becomes old, people do it then get over it, so although large groups were possible initially after a few months on a dedicated guild will have the manpower to do them. With better scaling a lot of issues can be solved.

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t mind hard core content. I don’t want to see it hidden away in instances, that’s all.

They are already hidden in instanced called “elite server only” and “TTS overflow”.

Please taxi me in there.

Not that I think there is any easy fix to the current problem.

Except anyone can join TTS and get taxied there. There’s no 40 player limit. Do you know how many times I was on the second overflow, and both beat Tequatl?

That is like saying anyone can join a guild to do instanced raid. Do you know there are times I can’t do Tequatl because the TTS instance is full? Oh wait, I need to join 1 hour prior to the instance start and maybe I’ll have a chance.

You said there are times the 2nd overflow works, that’s like saying there are times it fail too.

I’m not saying to Anet to make instanced raid. I’m saying those open world raid are already like instanced raid.

At least you dont have to depend on random scrubs when playing instanced content – cant play properly – kick. I’m not saying I’m the best player ever, but if you’re unable to read chat to know what to do or don’t want to download TS for coordination or lack the skill level, then I don’t want to play with you.

The concept of these encounters is decent, but I’m not willing to spend 2 or more hours changing overflows, raging on bad players and just generally waiting.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Please, ArenaNet, do not make large-scale ‘raid-type’ content instanced. I prefer it the way it is. Thank you.

I 2nd this! Or 100th this! It’s way more fun in these large fights!

I enjoy open world “raiding”. I can stand back with my longbow and sip a c’ocktail while commanders are doing all the job. If we somehow kill the beast, I can claim I am a hardcore and that I’m one of the best pve-ers in this game.

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t mind hard core content. I don’t want to see it hidden away in instances, that’s all.

They are already hidden in instanced called “elite server only” and “TTS overflow”.

Please taxi me in there.

Not that I think there is any easy fix to the current problem.

Except anyone can join TTS and get taxied there. There’s no 40 player limit. Do you know how many times I was on the second overflow, and both beat Tequatl?

That is like saying anyone can join a guild to do instanced raid. Do you know there are times I can’t do Tequatl because the TTS instance is full? Oh wait, I need to join 1 hour prior to the instance start and maybe I’ll have a chance.

You said there are times the 2nd overflow works, that’s like saying there are times it fail too.

I’m not saying to Anet to make instanced raid. I’m saying those open world raid are already like instanced raid.

I’ve never had to join TTS to get there one hour before an event. Certainly not Teq anyway.

However, we have filled a server and started another one. We’ve had three.

Try that with a raid. 50 people in your guild, 30 raid, and 20 are like but what about us?

It doesn’t work. It’s a bad defense. At least with TTS you have far less of a chance of getting locked out.

And if you don’t think raids take a lot of time to set up, you haven’t done many.

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t mind hard core content. I don’t want to see it hidden away in instances, that’s all.

They are already hidden in instanced called “elite server only” and “TTS overflow”.

Please taxi me in there.

Not that I think there is any easy fix to the current problem.

Except anyone can join TTS and get taxied there. There’s no 40 player limit. Do you know how many times I was on the second overflow, and both beat Tequatl?

That is like saying anyone can join a guild to do instanced raid. Do you know there are times I can’t do Tequatl because the TTS instance is full? Oh wait, I need to join 1 hour prior to the instance start and maybe I’ll have a chance.

You said there are times the 2nd overflow works, that’s like saying there are times it fail too.

I’m not saying to Anet to make instanced raid. I’m saying those open world raid are already like instanced raid.

I’ve never had to join TTS to get there one hour before an event. Certainly not Teq anyway.

However, we have filled a server and started another one. We’ve had three.

Try that with a raid. 50 people in your guild, 30 raid, and 20 are like but what about us?

It doesn’t work. It’s a bad defense. At least with TTS you have far less of a chance of getting locked out.

And if you don’t think raids take a lot of time to set up, you haven’t done many.

I never defend instanced raid. I’m saying you are already doing instanced raid.

You join a guild called TTS. Everyone try to find an instance for yourself. So they can leave the unwanted people out.

Maybe Anet should stop making content for the 5-10% of the people who join TTS. Or maybe like 1% or less. Like you said.

ps. Maybe they should actually make Tequatl instanced for hardcore guild such as TTS. ANd make an easy version for the rest of people. Please stop making “casual people” do this coordinate hardcore open world boss which just doesn’t work.

lordkrall.7241:

Beldin.5498:

I thought they should have already learned that after all the complaints about Tequatl.

At least they haven’t started to change the other worldbosses in that form till now, since if they do that i really start to look out for another game

There might have been a bit of complaints about Tequatl, but it is still getting killing several times per day on different servers, so clearly people do like it.

You mean to say – so people clearly do like the rewards.

There are people organizing – yes – and as long as people will be doing it I will personally tag along.
BUT – 70-80% of those there ( like myself) are not at all interested in the fight nor in preparing for it.

Yesterday a whole server-full of people weren’t even volunteering for key positions because people just want to spam some dps and get some fast money. Commanders were practically begging people to man turrets and nobody was going.
Why? Nobody wants the tough/complicated job – they just want to mash 1 and get rewards.

3 gold + a chance for good drops in 25 minutes is NOT BAD. So people will do it.

But ask yourself this – do people actually do it because of the event or because of the rewards?

Nerf the rewards and see what happens.

Vayne.8563:

Try that with a raid. 50 people in your guild, 30 raid, and 20 are like but what about us?

It doesn’t work. It’s a bad defense. At least with TTS you have far less of a chance of getting locked out.

And if you don’t think raids take a lot of time to set up, you haven’t done many.

You speak like you’ve never seriously raided yourself. Serious raiding guilds maintain schedules and keep a fair rotation of their members. The 20 people that couldn’t go on Day 1, would go on Day 2 or Day 3. In the long run, every member of the guild raids just as much as the others.

Now with Tequatl guilds, if you have bad luck, slow internet connection, frequent disconnects or any combinations of these, you may only participate like once in a blue moon. And no one really cares you are left behind, no one is going to keep a safe spot for you for the next time, because you are just one of a thousand (EU Teq guilds are what, 1500 atm?).

laokoko.7403:

I never defend instanced raid. I’m saying you are already doing instanced raid.

You join a guild called TTS. Everyone try to find an instance for yourself. So they can leave the unwanted people out.

Maybe Anet should stop making content for the 5-10% of the people who join TTS. Or maybe like 1% or less. Like you said.

ps. Maybe they should actually make Tequatl instanced for hardcore guild such as TTS. ANd make an easy version for the rest of people. Please stop making “casual people” do this coordinate hardcore open world boss which just doesn’t work.

My main problem with the whole way teq was/is being handled is anet took content away from the majority of players and in a sense, gave it to a small handful of the player base. From the comments the devs have made, this is by design and what they intended. But content like teq and the wurms are creating 2 separate games with 2 separate player bases. It can only end badly. And look at it like this. The “elite” players are getting new permanent content while the rest of us are only getting temporary content. Does that seem fair?

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t mind hard core content. I don’t want to see it hidden away in instances, that’s all.

They are already hidden in instanced called “elite server only” and “TTS overflow”.

Please taxi me in there.

Not that I think there is any easy fix to the current problem.

Except anyone can join TTS and get taxied there. There’s no 40 player limit. Do you know how many times I was on the second overflow, and both beat Tequatl?

That is like saying anyone can join a guild to do instanced raid. Do you know there are times I can’t do Tequatl because the TTS instance is full? Oh wait, I need to join 1 hour prior to the instance start and maybe I’ll have a chance.

You said there are times the 2nd overflow works, that’s like saying there are times it fail too.

I’m not saying to Anet to make instanced raid. I’m saying those open world raid are already like instanced raid.

I’ve never had to join TTS to get there one hour before an event. Certainly not Teq anyway.

However, we have filled a server and started another one. We’ve had three.

Try that with a raid. 50 people in your guild, 30 raid, and 20 are like but what about us?

It doesn’t work. It’s a bad defense. At least with TTS you have far less of a chance of getting locked out.

And if you don’t think raids take a lot of time to set up, you haven’t done many.

I never defend instanced raid. I’m saying you are already doing instanced raid.

You join a guild called TTS. Everyone try to find an instance for yourself. So they can leave the unwanted people out.

Maybe Anet should stop making content for the 5-10% of the people who join TTS. Or maybe like 1% or less. Like you said.

ps. Maybe they should actually make Tequatl instanced for hardcore guild such as TTS. ANd make an easy version for the rest of people. Please stop making “casual people” do this coordinate hardcore open world boss which just doesn’t work.

What unwanted people? Who’s denied access to that guild? It’s quite a bad analogy if you ask me. I’ve seen what raiding guilds are like. I’ve seen what TTS is like. I don’t even see how you can compare them.

Vayne.8563:

Frenk the Vile.2596:

Vayne.8563:

Rod.6581:

@maddoctor

So, there is exactly 200 of us and we joined some underpopulated server, and everyone of us got in except for Joe. Now, Joe can not join us ‘cos some local player named Mark is doing some gardening on map to level up his cooking. Joe is is sad. And we don’t want to leave our friend Joe alone. So we try talking to Mark and asking him nicely to leave map so Joe can come and play with us. He can do gardening in overflow. But Mark doesn’t give a potato. He tells us that Tyria is a free world and he can do as he please. Sadly, we are forced to try guesting on another server…. Joe did joined us now, but Samuel and Isabella didn’t…. So after 20 guesting servers we finally decide that it is too late to start anything now and we should try it again tomorrow.

How is this different from an instanced raid of 40 people in a guild of 45?

OMG.
No, really?
Maybe, because with instances (just like dungeons!) you don’t have to wait a very, very, VERY, frustating TIMER???

And if the first 40 guildies DO IT, then some will go out and help the rest…not the day after, but after 5 minutes?!?!

Man, have you ever played other MMOs? Instances are fun for friends and for making new ones. Where there are no instances, you don’t need to know each other, and that kills the so-called ‘’living world’’, and creates only a massive zergfest, hard to control, to understand, to enjoy.

And to pple that said ‘’i hate elitism’‘, i say: you’re like a parasite to the big guilds that actually struggle to beat it, if YOU are standing AFK or fighting with green-items or dying at the first champ. mob that places an AoE!

Making that boss and its achievments ’’temporay’’ only made things worse…

Most raids in MMOs had lockouts. You started one and you got partway through and then continued later in the week. It wasn’t five minutes.

Half the time you had to grind stuff to make buffs for the guild in between raids. It might be different with the new budget raid finder raids, but don’t give me the crap about 40 people doing the raid and 35 of htem jumping back in right after to do it again with the five people that missed it…because it not only didn’t happen, it couldn’t have happened. Not back in the days of 40 man raids certain it couldn’t.

I just logged in to my server and there is no one there! Event is going but no one cares! Because there is always not enough players here. My entire server is excluded from the event! ENTIRE SERVER! There is only one way to complete the event: you get into overflow. So you need to have a friend on an overflow! Or find the server that have so many players on the map so get into overflow instead!

Its way easier to get into raid! And you also have much higher chance to complete it.

I don’t know about you but my experience with Teq/Wurm is HORRIBLE! I dint’t complete it even ONCE! And I have NO idea how can I do it!!! Because it’s not about my skills! Its about finding 200 players that actually CAN do it! And that frustrates me!

HiddenNick.7206:

Vayne.8563:

Frenk the Vile.2596:

Vayne.8563:

Rod.6581:

@maddoctor

So, there is exactly 200 of us and we joined some underpopulated server, and everyone of us got in except for Joe. Now, Joe can not join us ‘cos some local player named Mark is doing some gardening on map to level up his cooking. Joe is is sad. And we don’t want to leave our friend Joe alone. So we try talking to Mark and asking him nicely to leave map so Joe can come and play with us. He can do gardening in overflow. But Mark doesn’t give a potato. He tells us that Tyria is a free world and he can do as he please. Sadly, we are forced to try guesting on another server…. Joe did joined us now, but Samuel and Isabella didn’t…. So after 20 guesting servers we finally decide that it is too late to start anything now and we should try it again tomorrow.

How is this different from an instanced raid of 40 people in a guild of 45?

OMG.
No, really?
Maybe, because with instances (just like dungeons!) you don’t have to wait a very, very, VERY, frustating TIMER???

And if the first 40 guildies DO IT, then some will go out and help the rest…not the day after, but after 5 minutes?!?!

Man, have you ever played other MMOs? Instances are fun for friends and for making new ones. Where there are no instances, you don’t need to know each other, and that kills the so-called ‘’living world’’, and creates only a massive zergfest, hard to control, to understand, to enjoy.

And to pple that said ‘’i hate elitism’‘, i say: you’re like a parasite to the big guilds that actually struggle to beat it, if YOU are standing AFK or fighting with green-items or dying at the first champ. mob that places an AoE!

Making that boss and its achievments ’’temporay’’ only made things worse…

Most raids in MMOs had lockouts. You started one and you got partway through and then continued later in the week. It wasn’t five minutes.

Half the time you had to grind stuff to make buffs for the guild in between raids. It might be different with the new budget raid finder raids, but don’t give me the crap about 40 people doing the raid and 35 of htem jumping back in right after to do it again with the five people that missed it…because it not only didn’t happen, it couldn’t have happened. Not back in the days of 40 man raids certain it couldn’t.

I just logged in to my server and there is no one there! Event is going but no one cares! Because there is always not enough players here. My entire server is excluded from the event! ENTIRE SERVER! There is only one way to complete the event: you get into overflow. So you need to have a friend on an overflow! Or find the server that have so many players on the map so get into overflow instead!

Its way easier to get into raid! And you also have much higher chance to complete it.

I don’t know about you but my experience with Teq/Wurm is HORRIBLE! Id dint’t complete it ONCE! And I have NO idea how can I do it!!! Because it’s not about my skills! Its about finding 200 players that actually CAN do it! And that frustrates me!

Well, your entire server isn’t excluded, because your entire server guested to a busier server, except for the five guys left behind who aren’t interested in doing the content because they absolutely insist on doing it on their server.

Anet provided the solution, why so much resistance to it?

My main concern with the latest two world events in particular the wurm event, is the amount of time it takes to develop them, balanced against their longevity. If Tequatle is any indication, it will only be temporary, in that players will move on to other things (marionette excluded as its part of a story arc). Only the dedicated few are still doing Tequatle.
Plus, why place such hard content in low level areas? Low levels are certain to die very fast. Almost feels like cruelty. In any case they are fun to do (from a level 80’s perspective) and my daily ress has never been so easy.

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t mind hard core content. I don’t want to see it hidden away in instances, that’s all.

They are already hidden in instanced called “elite server only” and “TTS overflow”.

Please taxi me in there.

Not that I think there is any easy fix to the current problem.

Except anyone can join TTS and get taxied there. There’s no 40 player limit. Do you know how many times I was on the second overflow, and both beat Tequatl?

That is like saying anyone can join a guild to do instanced raid. Do you know there are times I can’t do Tequatl because the TTS instance is full? Oh wait, I need to join 1 hour prior to the instance start and maybe I’ll have a chance.

You said there are times the 2nd overflow works, that’s like saying there are times it fail too.

I’m not saying to Anet to make instanced raid. I’m saying those open world raid are already like instanced raid.

I’ve never had to join TTS to get there one hour before an event. Certainly not Teq anyway.

However, we have filled a server and started another one. We’ve had three.

Try that with a raid. 50 people in your guild, 30 raid, and 20 are like but what about us?

It doesn’t work. It’s a bad defense. At least with TTS you have far less of a chance of getting locked out.

And if you don’t think raids take a lot of time to set up, you haven’t done many.

I never defend instanced raid. I’m saying you are already doing instanced raid.

You join a guild called TTS. Everyone try to find an instance for yourself. So they can leave the unwanted people out.

Maybe Anet should stop making content for the 5-10% of the people who join TTS. Or maybe like 1% or less. Like you said.

ps. Maybe they should actually make Tequatl instanced for hardcore guild such as TTS. ANd make an easy version for the rest of people. Please stop making “casual people” do this coordinate hardcore open world boss which just doesn’t work.

What unwanted people? Who’s denied access to that guild? It’s quite a bad analogy if you ask me. I’ve seen what raiding guilds are like. I’ve seen what TTS is like. I don’t even see how you can compare them.

Dude why did TTS need to get their own people to their own freaking overflow to do the content. They want to get rid of the unwanted people.

I don’t have any problem with Anet designing anything. I’m not a game designer, what the heck do I know.

It’s just everything you said is already happening. The content is only doable for those 5-10% or is that like 1% of the people. Tell me what percent of people playing GW2 is actually in TTS.

Everything you said about inclusion and Anet making content for those few percentage of people is already happening. Oh ya you forget TTS “is” a raiding guild. They dont’ want to play with other scrub. So they make their own guild so they can get rid of scrub.

The funny thing? There are probabaly more people doing instanced raid in other mmorpg than people doing open world raid in GW2. So much about exclusion.

Me personally I dont’ think there is any problem with making content for 5% of the people. I just think it is funny everything you hate is want happening right now.

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t mind hard core content. I don’t want to see it hidden away in instances, that’s all.

They are already hidden in instanced called “elite server only” and “TTS overflow”.

Please taxi me in there.

Not that I think there is any easy fix to the current problem.

Except anyone can join TTS and get taxied there. There’s no 40 player limit. Do you know how many times I was on the second overflow, and both beat Tequatl?

That is like saying anyone can join a guild to do instanced raid. Do you know there are times I can’t do Tequatl because the TTS instance is full? Oh wait, I need to join 1 hour prior to the instance start and maybe I’ll have a chance.

You said there are times the 2nd overflow works, that’s like saying there are times it fail too.

I’m not saying to Anet to make instanced raid. I’m saying those open world raid are already like instanced raid.

I’ve never had to join TTS to get there one hour before an event. Certainly not Teq anyway.

However, we have filled a server and started another one. We’ve had three.

Try that with a raid. 50 people in your guild, 30 raid, and 20 are like but what about us?

It doesn’t work. It’s a bad defense. At least with TTS you have far less of a chance of getting locked out.

And if you don’t think raids take a lot of time to set up, you haven’t done many.

I never defend instanced raid. I’m saying you are already doing instanced raid.

You join a guild called TTS. Everyone try to find an instance for yourself. So they can leave the unwanted people out.

Maybe Anet should stop making content for the 5-10% of the people who join TTS. Or maybe like 1% or less. Like you said.

ps. Maybe they should actually make Tequatl instanced for hardcore guild such as TTS. ANd make an easy version for the rest of people. Please stop making “casual people” do this coordinate hardcore open world boss which just doesn’t work.

What unwanted people? Who’s denied access to that guild? It’s quite a bad analogy if you ask me. I’ve seen what raiding guilds are like. I’ve seen what TTS is like. I don’t even see how you can compare them.

Dude why did TTS need to get their own people to their own freaking overflow to do the content. They want to get rid of the unwanted people.

I don’t have any problem with Anet designing anything. I’m not a game designer, what the heck do I know.

It’s just everything you said is already happening. The content is only doable for those 5-10% or is that like 1% of the people. Tell me what percent of people playing GW2 is actually in TTS.

Everything you said about inclusion and Anet making content for those few percentage of people is already happening. Oh ya you forget TTS “is” a raiding guild. They dont’ want to play with other scrub. So they make their own guild so they can get rid of scrub.

The funny thing? There are probabaly more people doing instanced raid in other mmorpg than people doing open world raid in GW2. So much about exclusion.

Me personally I dont’ think there is any problem with making content for 5% of the people. I just think it is funny everything you hate is want happening right now.

TTS gets people on their own server, so that they get get more people into the fight, among other things. If there are a dozen people on the main server, that’s a dozen less people fighting Tequatl.

Another reason is the six guns. They DO want people they can trust on those guns because those guns are extremely important to the fight. No one is excluded from joining the guild and thus getting onto the overflow. Hell they accepted me.

If they were that exclusive and elitist, I promise you, I would not be among the chosen.

The raid bosses are working fine in general. Tequatl died almost 6000 times already. The players had to learn the mechanics and to organise themselves.

The wurms are very fresh. The mechanics are more difficult and degree of needed organisation is a little bit higher compared to Tequatl. In some weeks the wurms will be farmed like Tequatl. The players need only more time to learn and to adapt.

Vayne.8563:

TTS gets people on their own server, so that they get get more people into the fight, among other things.

So if you are not in TTS you can’t do the raid content? That is exactly what is happening. Since people not in TTS can’t down the boss.

The truth is there are probably more people doing instanced raid in other game than this open world raid boss in GW2.

All I’m saying is this “design the game for 5%-10%” you said is actually what is happening.

I get it you like this open world raid thing. You can’t deny there are probably as much people who disagree with you. Since there are(not necessary me) who don’t like this open world raid boss.

I’m saying you always support the things you like only. You never listen to other people and just think other people are just wrong.

When the reality they are just people that might not like the things you like.

The open world raid style content is fine, the issue arises when you’re having to precisely co-ordinate 50+ people with a very small window of error and you’re effectively instancing the zone anyway through hard capping (having to get to a zone almost 2 hours before the event fires is not okay in my book). Hard content is fine but at the same time if people aren’t able to do the content due to their server only doing that event once or twice a day (because cat herding is fun…) then you have ask yourself if the event is worth having as a world event.

New Teq and to an extent the Wurm could have been designed as part of a 25 man raid style expansion for Arah/Twilight Arbor allowing for the level of difficulty to remain but also allowing people to take part at a time that suits their guild/friends/random group.

For me Twisted Marionette is an example of how world bosses should be done. It has a good event mechanic, requires a level of co-ordination that can be easily explained through map chat., there is room for mistakes (such as an unlucky group on the platforms) but can punish too many of them and its satisfying to repeat.

Open world raid content works.

For two weeks if you have a medium amount of players on your server.
For a bit longer if the server is packed like Desolation.

If you are stupid enough to try the event on your own server and it has a low population, it is your own fault. At least that is what people will tell you. You are the red headed stepchild and ANet doesn’t care if you do not want to go somewhere else to do the content.
Your server fails. Better buy some gems and move on.

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

TTS gets people on their own server, so that they get get more people into the fight, among other things.

So if you are not in TTS you can’t do the raid content? That is exactly what is happening. Since people not in TTS can’t down the boss.

The truth is there are probably more people doing instanced raid in other game than this open world raid boss in GW2.

All I’m saying is this “design the game for 5%-10%” you said is actually what is happening.

I get it you like this open world raid thing. You can’t deny there are probably as much people who disagree with you. Since there are(not necessary me) who don’t like this open world raid boss.

I’m saying you always support the things you like only. You never listen to other people and just think other people are just wrong.

When the reality they are just people that might not like the things you like.

I agree that people may like other things. I’ve acknowledge that. But from long experience in MMOs, after numerous polls across many years, what makes you believe most people like raiding or consider themselves raiders?

There are probably as many people soloing MMOs as there are raiders. This is my gut feeling.

Instances won’t do anything to help this game in my opinion that’s all. I’m not saying people don’t like them. I’m saying that casual players WILL be left out.

Right now, ANYONE can join TTS and I do mean anyone. It’s open for everyone. Your server doesn’t matter. They don’t ask you about how good you are, or what your build is or what gear you have.

Once this becomes instanced content, you will see a completely different set of issues arise. No one can stop me from participating now in a TTS raid, unless I break the very generous TTS rules.

On the other hand, I’ve had some experience with raid guilds in the past and most of the ones I’ve played with are simply bad. I wouldn’t encourage this game to do anything that creates that kind of mentality.

Even the five man instances right now, you can see that mentality in some of the players. I’d rather not see this sort of thing grow.

Yes I get you Vayne. I’m just pointing out if there is not a problem. There wont’ be this many people complaining.

There are actually quite a bit of people that dont’ like the way things are implemented.

And the main reason things work in GW2 is because of multi guild design. And actually the raid isn’t that difficult compare to those other games. Take that away, it’s just like the other mmorpg.

laokoko.7403:

Yes I get you Vayne. I’m just pointing out if there is not a problem. There wont’ be this many people complaining.

There are actually quite a bit of people that dont’ like the way things are implemented.

And the main reason things work in GW2 is because of multi guild design. And actually the raid isn’t that difficult compare to those other games. Take that away, it’s just like the other mmorpg.

I agree. And I’m saying that I know that in other games I’ve played, quite a lot of people complained about raids. If Anet instances this stuff, I’d wager more people would complain than are complaining now. That’s just my best guess.

Instancing this stuff is not the answer to the problem. There may well be other solutions but I don’t believe instancing is a good one.

Open world raid content can work, but being split off from your friends and guild scare off a lot of people. They aslo need to be careful on how easily a mistake from 1-5 players can cause the entire event to fail for a 100 people do this. We may not see it too much right now, but if every world boss were to be made “hard” like wurm; I can easily see a community similar to MOBAs forming around them.

This kind of content is going to drive people away from this game. Sure, you will always have your fanboys, but I have seen much, much more distaste and dislike for this open-world raid content than anyone saying they like it.
Its not just here on the forums. People want to do things with their friends. They dont want to be forced into a group of strangers and have to trust these strangers completely to not screw them over.
I’ve attempted Marionette many times and have had to just stand on a platform and watch other groups fail for lack of knowing what to do. Even after telling before and during the platform fight what they need to do. Just watch them cause my failure, even though my and 3 other platforms were successful. We all fail because we’re forced to rely completely on people who don’t bother to ask or read. Then afterwards they ask what they were supposed to do.
I don’t mind the learning curve or the challenge. I do mind being forced to do it with completely random strangers who are not paying attention, wanting a free ride, can’t be bothered to learn, etc
Call that elitism if you want, but while some of you proclaim fairness to those ‘casuals’ and people who wouldn’t otherwise do it believe it is fair for 100+ people to have their event fail and time wasted because of the 25ish people who dont care and wont take the time to learn or even bothering to read the instructions people are giving them?
This isn’t helping ‘soloers’ either. I play this way and know many who also do, but still don’t get to really finish this content because of how dependent it is on other people to not fail. As someone who does alot of solo roaming and adventuring, I also joined a rather large guild so I can do dungeons, temple runs and so forth. I expect to have to do this for this content, it is an MMO afterall. So, I would gladly take part in Marionette and Wurm encounters in a controlled guild instance. As it stands now, I am just frustrated and have already lost all interest in these bosses after time and time again watching other people cause my failure. Its not a matter of learning how to do, because I and countless others do know how. Its a matter of luck of the draw of whether you get someone competent or not on your map. The success or failure of 100+ people should not hinge on the 5 people in each lane and end up on a platform who didn’t bother to say or ask beforehand that they don’t know what to do.

I agree, the Marionette fight, as much as I like it, is a bad design. The achievements, the way you can’t help people on other platforms…all of it. It could have been handled better.

And I still enjoy it more than the Shatterer.

Vayne.8563:

HiddenNick.7206:

Vayne.8563:

Frenk the Vile.2596:

Vayne.8563:

Rod.6581:

@maddoctor

So, there is exactly 200 of us and we joined some underpopulated server, and everyone of us got in except for Joe. Now, Joe can not join us ‘cos some local player named Mark is doing some gardening on map to level up his cooking. Joe is is sad. And we don’t want to leave our friend Joe alone. So we try talking to Mark and asking him nicely to leave map so Joe can come and play with us. He can do gardening in overflow. But Mark doesn’t give a potato. He tells us that Tyria is a free world and he can do as he please. Sadly, we are forced to try guesting on another server…. Joe did joined us now, but Samuel and Isabella didn’t…. So after 20 guesting servers we finally decide that it is too late to start anything now and we should try it again tomorrow.

How is this different from an instanced raid of 40 people in a guild of 45?

OMG.
No, really?
Maybe, because with instances (just like dungeons!) you don’t have to wait a very, very, VERY, frustating TIMER???

And if the first 40 guildies DO IT, then some will go out and help the rest…not the day after, but after 5 minutes?!?!

Man, have you ever played other MMOs? Instances are fun for friends and for making new ones. Where there are no instances, you don’t need to know each other, and that kills the so-called ‘’living world’’, and creates only a massive zergfest, hard to control, to understand, to enjoy.

And to pple that said ‘’i hate elitism’‘, i say: you’re like a parasite to the big guilds that actually struggle to beat it, if YOU are standing AFK or fighting with green-items or dying at the first champ. mob that places an AoE!

Making that boss and its achievments ’’temporay’’ only made things worse…

Most raids in MMOs had lockouts. You started one and you got partway through and then continued later in the week. It wasn’t five minutes.

Half the time you had to grind stuff to make buffs for the guild in between raids. It might be different with the new budget raid finder raids, but don’t give me the crap about 40 people doing the raid and 35 of htem jumping back in right after to do it again with the five people that missed it…because it not only didn’t happen, it couldn’t have happened. Not back in the days of 40 man raids certain it couldn’t.

I just logged in to my server and there is no one there! Event is going but no one cares! Because there is always not enough players here. My entire server is excluded from the event! ENTIRE SERVER! There is only one way to complete the event: you get into overflow. So you need to have a friend on an overflow! Or find the server that have so many players on the map so get into overflow instead!

Its way easier to get into raid! And you also have much higher chance to complete it.

I don’t know about you but my experience with Teq/Wurm is HORRIBLE! Id dint’t complete it ONCE! And I have NO idea how can I do it!!! Because it’s not about my skills! Its about finding 200 players that actually CAN do it! And that frustrates me!

Well, your entire server isn’t excluded, because your entire server guested to a busier server, except for the five guys left behind who aren’t interested in doing the content because they absolutely insist on doing it on their server.

Anet provided the solution, why so much resistance to it?

This is your answer? Are you serious? Because this is not a solution.

There are soooo… many things that they should do to fix those open world bosses… And world guesting is only one of them.

HiddenNick.7206:

Vayne.8563:

HiddenNick.7206:

Vayne.8563:

Frenk the Vile.2596:

Vayne.8563:

Rod.6581:

@maddoctor

So, there is exactly 200 of us and we joined some underpopulated server, and everyone of us got in except for Joe. Now, Joe can not join us ‘cos some local player named Mark is doing some gardening on map to level up his cooking. Joe is is sad. And we don’t want to leave our friend Joe alone. So we try talking to Mark and asking him nicely to leave map so Joe can come and play with us. He can do gardening in overflow. But Mark doesn’t give a potato. He tells us that Tyria is a free world and he can do as he please. Sadly, we are forced to try guesting on another server…. Joe did joined us now, but Samuel and Isabella didn’t…. So after 20 guesting servers we finally decide that it is too late to start anything now and we should try it again tomorrow.

How is this different from an instanced raid of 40 people in a guild of 45?

OMG.
No, really?
Maybe, because with instances (just like dungeons!) you don’t have to wait a very, very, VERY, frustating TIMER???

And if the first 40 guildies DO IT, then some will go out and help the rest…not the day after, but after 5 minutes?!?!

Man, have you ever played other MMOs? Instances are fun for friends and for making new ones. Where there are no instances, you don’t need to know each other, and that kills the so-called ‘’living world’’, and creates only a massive zergfest, hard to control, to understand, to enjoy.

And to pple that said ‘’i hate elitism’‘, i say: you’re like a parasite to the big guilds that actually struggle to beat it, if YOU are standing AFK or fighting with green-items or dying at the first champ. mob that places an AoE!

Making that boss and its achievments ’’temporay’’ only made things worse…

Most raids in MMOs had lockouts. You started one and you got partway through and then continued later in the week. It wasn’t five minutes.

Half the time you had to grind stuff to make buffs for the guild in between raids. It might be different with the new budget raid finder raids, but don’t give me the crap about 40 people doing the raid and 35 of htem jumping back in right after to do it again with the five people that missed it…because it not only didn’t happen, it couldn’t have happened. Not back in the days of 40 man raids certain it couldn’t.

I just logged in to my server and there is no one there! Event is going but no one cares! Because there is always not enough players here. My entire server is excluded from the event! ENTIRE SERVER! There is only one way to complete the event: you get into overflow. So you need to have a friend on an overflow! Or find the server that have so many players on the map so get into overflow instead!

Its way easier to get into raid! And you also have much higher chance to complete it.

I don’t know about you but my experience with Teq/Wurm is HORRIBLE! Id dint’t complete it ONCE! And I have NO idea how can I do it!!! Because it’s not about my skills! Its about finding 200 players that actually CAN do it! And that frustrates me!

Well, your entire server isn’t excluded, because your entire server guested to a busier server, except for the five guys left behind who aren’t interested in doing the content because they absolutely insist on doing it on their server.

Anet provided the solution, why so much resistance to it?

This is your answer? Are you serious? Because this is not a solution.

There are soooo… many things that they should do to fix those open world bosses… And world guesting is only one of them.

It is my answer. I’m not sure why you find that troubling.

Vayne.8563:

HiddenNick.7206:

Vayne.8563:

HiddenNick.7206:

Vayne.8563:

Frenk the Vile.2596:

Vayne.8563:

Rod.6581:

@maddoctor

So, there is exactly 200 of us and we joined some underpopulated server, and everyone of us got in except for Joe. Now, Joe can not join us ‘cos some local player named Mark is doing some gardening on map to level up his cooking. Joe is is sad. And we don’t want to leave our friend Joe alone. So we try talking to Mark and asking him nicely to leave map so Joe can come and play with us. He can do gardening in overflow. But Mark doesn’t give a potato. He tells us that Tyria is a free world and he can do as he please. Sadly, we are forced to try guesting on another server…. Joe did joined us now, but Samuel and Isabella didn’t…. So after 20 guesting servers we finally decide that it is too late to start anything now and we should try it again tomorrow.

How is this different from an instanced raid of 40 people in a guild of 45?

OMG.
No, really?
Maybe, because with instances (just like dungeons!) you don’t have to wait a very, very, VERY, frustating TIMER???

And if the first 40 guildies DO IT, then some will go out and help the rest…not the day after, but after 5 minutes?!?!

Man, have you ever played other MMOs? Instances are fun for friends and for making new ones. Where there are no instances, you don’t need to know each other, and that kills the so-called ‘’living world’’, and creates only a massive zergfest, hard to control, to understand, to enjoy.

And to pple that said ‘’i hate elitism’‘, i say: you’re like a parasite to the big guilds that actually struggle to beat it, if YOU are standing AFK or fighting with green-items or dying at the first champ. mob that places an AoE!

Making that boss and its achievments ’’temporay’’ only made things worse…

Most raids in MMOs had lockouts. You started one and you got partway through and then continued later in the week. It wasn’t five minutes.

Half the time you had to grind stuff to make buffs for the guild in between raids. It might be different with the new budget raid finder raids, but don’t give me the crap about 40 people doing the raid and 35 of htem jumping back in right after to do it again with the five people that missed it…because it not only didn’t happen, it couldn’t have happened. Not back in the days of 40 man raids certain it couldn’t.

I just logged in to my server and there is no one there! Event is going but no one cares! Because there is always not enough players here. My entire server is excluded from the event! ENTIRE SERVER! There is only one way to complete the event: you get into overflow. So you need to have a friend on an overflow! Or find the server that have so many players on the map so get into overflow instead!

Its way easier to get into raid! And you also have much higher chance to complete it.

I don’t know about you but my experience with Teq/Wurm is HORRIBLE! Id dint’t complete it ONCE! And I have NO idea how can I do it!!! Because it’s not about my skills! Its about finding 200 players that actually CAN do it! And that frustrates me!

Well, your entire server isn’t excluded, because your entire server guested to a busier server, except for the five guys left behind who aren’t interested in doing the content because they absolutely insist on doing it on their server.

Anet provided the solution, why so much resistance to it?

This is your answer? Are you serious? Because this is not a solution.

There are soooo… many things that they should do to fix those open world bosses… And world guesting is only one of them.

It is my answer. I’m not sure why you find that troubling.

Because there are few times more then 200 people (like a few thousands maybe?) on my server than know how to defeat tequatl. But the game does so little to help them find them self’s and coordinate. Instead it does so much to discourage them from even trying.

Open world raid isn’t new. There are far less complaining on games which “they can’t guest”. So they have to stick to their own server.

And the boss dont’ despawn if fails. So people can keep trying. They just have a respawn timer.

You actually rarely hear people complaining about instanced raid in other mmorpg. But people complain about the open world raid here.

I think instanced raid is obviously better. The problem is the game was kind of advertised as no raid. It’s weird they actually go the other way, kind of like the ascended gear dilema.

I don’t think instanced raid would work in GW2. Simply because Anet developer said there will be no raid. And no they are actually implementing them(open world raid).

I believe that truly interesting and challenging fights can only take place in a raid. Teq and Wurm are not quite of this caliber (but at least they involve doing things.) However, world bosses would probably be better off as both open world and instanced. Open world is easier, instanced is tougher (and has a reduced base requirement.) Rewards are the same, everyone wins. Should the instanced version be a guild mission, the bonus to the standard world boss loot is 2 commendations.

You could apply this to 10/20 man dungeons. The casuals/pugs can try the easier raid. The “serious” people get the hard mode raid. As long as people can see the same content, and get more or less similar loot, nobody cares about raids and better people being the ones capable of doing them. Make these things accessible and inaccessible at the same time!

Rod.6581:

Why not both? Instanced raids AND large scale world bosses?

This really is the best solution.

Make the open world version of the boss a more positive experience for all players (it’s in the open world after all) by lowering the requirements and focusing more on making it fun and engaging instead of an elite challenge.

Make an instanced version of the same boss for those more interested in organized grouping.

As it stands, ANet is basically doing a ton of work on these encounters and yet they’re aiming them at such a small audience that it doesn’t really make sense.

I agree entirely with OP, I think that’s the biggest design flaw with the Tequatl/Wurm/Marionette events.

They require some coordination, awareness/competence from players, and have tight failure conditions. Bad or inattentive players can easily fail the event for everyone. This is great and fine, but not when you can’t choose your teammates.

When you cannot choose your teammates, the events degenerate into a test of whether you’re lucky enough to get competent players + small number of bad players.

I would say keep open world events gentle and hard to fail. Put challenging content into instances so that players have much more control over group composition. With instances, it would be more feasible to design events at a much higher difficulty.

Shared failure with random people (let’s watch one group fail Marionette boss #2 for lack of dps, yet again…) gets old very quickly.

The Wurm have been defeated on Desolation.

Less than a week after release. So clearly it is fully possible to complete it out in the open world, and soon enough several other servers will most likely have downed it.

Frenk the Vile.2596:

Jski.6180:

The problem with non open world events such as raid you let individuals have power over who gets to run them and who dose not get them run them. It makes ppl into dictator who normally are nice ppl. That is if its a hard event when it comes to say dungeons that we have they are not as hard as say a raid so its a lot more open but if you want hard raids like events and you put them into small man only less then 40 in a zone you will only have a small group compared to GW2 over all that can get it done.

So, let’s go asking around how many players did Tequatle once. Sure not 100%. And Teq. was permanent. Marionette will be out of reach for casuals ANYWAY if they don’t have luck and time and get a spot on Deso main…or get the famous ’’taxi’’ from a friend…
And Wurm, well, we’ll see…

That why ppl asked for harder content that you could not just zerg right? Please the taxi is a means of dealing with ppl who do nothing but press 1 and leech off of other ppl to the point of afking during a fight after getting tag. I am sry but these fights are hard and ppl want hard fights and there are ppl who do not want to work for things for the most part its ok but when they get in the way you need to deal with it and this is how player are dealing with it.

lordkrall.7241:

The Wurm have been defeated on Desolation.

Less than a week after release. So clearly it is fully possible to complete it out in the open world, and soon enough several other servers will most likely have downed it.

Just looking at the mechanics of the events, it’s immediately obvious that they can be completed, assuming that people in the event know what they are doing and don’t suck at the game. The bar is not that high.

Problem, which your post doesn’t address: ensuring that condition is a matter of luck, because the event is open world.

I think we should be able to play with who we want when we want. The people who enjoy the open world content as is could simply set up an instanced raid for anyone and proceed as soon as it fills. But right now there’s no easy option to be able to surround yourself with like-minded people who want to perform at a high level and put in a lot of effort to complete the event. Most of the people I encounter just want to bring ranged weapons and spam 1111 to complete the content, mainly on overflows.

Right now the solution is to camp on Deso main for 1.5-2 hours before the wurm spawns and go AFK. Great. Not my kind of game.

voidwater.2064:

Problem, which your post doesn’t address: ensuring that condition is a matter of luck, because the event is open world.

And yet it was completed within a week of release, by a server that have several hours long overflows. So clearly the issue is not as big as people in this thread make it out to be.

lordkrall.7241:

voidwater.2064:

Problem, which your post doesn’t address: ensuring that condition is a matter of luck, because the event is open world.

And yet it was completed within a week of release, by a server that have several hours long overflows. So clearly the issue is not as big as people in this thread make it out to be.

Clearly it is a big problem, because I look at the mechanics of the events, and they should have been completed on day 1.

And for thought, you say that 1 server has done it once. Consider this number: number of wurm events per day * number of servers.

Your argument is also weak, pointing out one successful event is not a rebuttal to the points made in this thread, not in the least.

voidwater.2064:

Clearly it is a big problem, because I look at the mechanics of the events, and they should have been completed on day 1.

And for thought, you say that 1 server has done it once. Consider this number: number of wurm events per day * number of servers.

Knowing the mechanics != completing the content though.

I am fully aware about how to defeat Lupi in Arah solo, but I am still unable to do it.
If it was as easy as knowing the mechanics every single content ever released for everything would have been completed within hours of its release.

I’m just a bit dismayed that they’re expecting so many people to participate. I mean, the mari requires something like 75-125 people to do, and that’s a /lot/ of people. In my experience playing mmos, it’s difficult to even get enough people to make two full raid groups of 20 people, for example. What are they going to do if interest drops?

lordkrall.7241:

voidwater.2064:

Problem, which your post doesn’t address: ensuring that condition is a matter of luck, because the event is open world.

And yet it was completed within a week of release, by a server that have several hours long overflows. So clearly the issue is not as big as people in this thread make it out to be.

That means the raid is actually too easy for coordinate group. And too hard for non coordinate group.

They might as well make an instanced version harder, and a non-instanced version easier.

Qutie honest I dont’ care about the wurm. Just pointing out a better solution.

Xomic.5792:

I’m just a bit dismayed that they’re expecting so many people to participate. I mean, the mari requires something like 75-125 people to do, and that’s a /lot/ of people. In my experience playing mmos, it’s difficult to even get enough people to make two full raid groups of 20 people, for example. What are they going to do if interest drops?

good thing there’s guesting.

I think guesting is the crop of the problem though. Since the real people that want to down wurm focus more on finding the right people to group with(aka get in the good instance), instead of trying to do it with their own server.

lordkrall.7241:

Knowing the mechanics != completing the content though.

I am fully aware about how to defeat Lupi in Arah solo, but I am still unable to do it.
If it was as easy as knowing the mechanics every single content ever released for everything would have been completed within hours of its release.

Soloing lupi is harder than the wurm bosses. If I could play the wurm event with only people that can solo lupi, then the wurm event would definitely be finished within the first day. Do you see the point?

You keep latching onto single points or aspects instead of considering the context and totality of the situation.