Guild Wars 2

First, a short presentation.
I’m 42 years old, from Denmark and 10 years ago I founded a Danish guild, that count around 400 members today. Most of our members play WOW, some stick with SWTOR still, and then when GW2 released, we had 150’ish members, all 18+ ready and eager to play.
Our guild is mix hardcore-casual, 18+ and we have a high loyalty among our members. They don’t leave the guild, they just quit bad mmo’s, and wait for the next. Originally we were founded in SWG, grew in WOW, and played most major mmo’s since then.

Before GW2, we had a huge release with SWTOR. That game got a good beating, and many members quit after 1-3 months because there was too many bugs, World PVP was dead, and endgame raiding was cleared in 2-4 weeks, even for casual teams.
The game lacked content, pvp and endgame.

When 150 members started out in GW2, with the “failure” of SWTOR in mind, the praise of how great GW2 was, well it was VERY positive to start with.
Content – events – puzzles – story – combat – classes – dungeons – design and WvW – We simply loved it to begin with.

Then people started dropping out slowly.
- Naturally with 150 players in a new mmo, some think the game is not the right for them. So we replaced our ranks with new recruits.
- Then more and more came with complaints, people just stopped playing, said its a great game, but they lost interest.

Why? We love the game… What is wrong here?
We are a large MMO guild, with lots of experienced players, and they are all 18+ avg. 32-35 years old, serious dedicated gamers.

So we asked our members what is wrong with GW, and to boil it down, it is 3 major things that we are missing here:

1. Its a solo game, with lots of people playing together.
The events are great, but there is no need whatsoever, to have a group or a guild. There is NO reason to play in groups with others, you don’t need other players, as long as they are there, playing solo at your side.
The game is too solo friendly, and too easy. We are missing challenges in the game, that NEED groups and even Guild’s to organize and work together.
- Yes, there are 5 man dungeons, but there is no real reason to go down there. You can easily play to lvl 80 and skip the dungeons. And if you want to go, 5 man is easy to find.

2. Where is the Guild in “Guild Wars”?
Basically, this is the main issue, that our members stopped playing before the reached lvl 80. There is a guild function, but nothing you need a guild to do ingame.
We raised 200 gold ingame for 2 WvW commanders, but WvW is just a zerg where you dont need a guild. Running in WvW as a guild with a commander, just mean that we lead the zerg around.
Raids are needed in GW2, because with 10+ man challenges, you need better coordination, and then guilds have a purpose. As GW2 is now, its just a chatroom in a solo game.
We lost many members because there was no use for them. Most played solo, so those who were looking for group, ended up unanswered, because there was no need, no benefit for groups.

3. We are missing engame challenges, raids AND the grind for better loot.
Yes yes, I/we know. GW2 is a mmo where endgame gear stats are capped for all, and easy to get to. Its all about finding better looking gear, and stand out in the crowd..
- That is just fine, if Arenanet want GW2 to loose players all the time from boredom.

I have a theory about that.
We play games to be entertained and have fun. If the game has no challenge, then players loose interest. If the game is TOO hard and challenging, players will also leave.
Also a game need rewards, the carrot on a stick. Especially an MMO, because what we really play MMO’s for, all of us, is the constant challenge of progressing with our characters. First we level from 1-80, then we have to keep having the carrot on a stick to keep us interested.
The point is, that if an MMO does not have Challenge + carrot + progress, then the experienced mmo gamers will soon grow bored and leave..

GW2 is a GREAT game, a solo game. But as an MMO, it is currently failing slowly.
There is no challenge in PVE, there is no Carrot in WVW, and after lvl 80 and full exotic gear, there is nothing more to work to get, there is no more progress to keep playing for.

I’m sorry if this sound like a rant. Its not really. We had fun in GW2, 150 to start with, and 20 are still playing. But I had really really hoped, that there would be more for the oldschool MMO gamers here.
I hate to say that WOW is the only MMO game, that is doing things correctly. I quit it myself a year ago, but I would give a lot to have endgame from WOW in the GW2 game, and a neverending grind for better gear.

If it was just me, I would not post these arguments.
But this is the sum of 100+ feedback explanations from members from our guild.
- Bring raids, loot progress and challeng into GW2, and it would truly be the best mmo ever!

My 2 cents.
w

Agree with 1 and 2. Disagree with 3. They could with creativity, create things for us to do besides a never ending grind. Strongly agree with number 2.

Well of course you do =)
Anyone who love everything about GW2 will totally disagree with the OP.

My post is just to inform Arenanet, that there are guilds out there who really gave GW2 a chance, and failed, because there is no need for guilds in the game.

Hey I fully agree! With all 3 points.

It’s the exact reason my 10 IRL friends and my guild of 25 members have all quit. I know 0 people who play this game now, Me and 1 other person have reached level 80 and that other person quit a month ago and I stopped playing mid Dec.

Look at what other people have said that GW2 feels like a OLG or a single player game with the options to have other players on the screen. Because all the content is so mind numbingly easy , people tackle all the content with the most simple and basic stratgey in all of gaming a zerg because that is all that is needed and it’s too effective. You don’t need groups in WvWvW just follow a zerg of players and there you have it the best way to play WvWvW.

Kopipoki.3542:

I disagree with almost everything you said.

Why do you disagree? What do you think about GW2?
If you just post “I agree” or “I disagree”, don’t post at all.

Personally, i agree with most that was said. I played WoW for several years and enjoyed the grind, the weekly raids,… GW2 is nothing like WoW, but I enjoy GW2 more because i can do what i want, go where i want, without having to worry about my gear. I also think it’s always more fun to play with your friends than alone, even if it doesn’t give you a benefit in game, you will enjoy playing more.

I agree with Tarnn. I can go where I want, without having to worry about gear. I enjoy using the best gear now and be able to use it for a long long time instead of having to grind for the next one. They should come up with things for us to do, using the best gear already in the game. Using these gear to complete new and interesting and creative activities, quests, group events, cooperative and competitive. (Horizontal Progression) which takes more work for them to do then vertical progression which only gives us gear grind just to keep us busy.
Hopefully we will have more incentives to group up and more meaning to guilds. Guild vs Guild would give us a lot to do. Give us different events, activities where we can play together. Different modes of PVP, rankings in PVP. I would prefer if we can only join one guild, but have guild vs guild battles.

wOOOOt.6407:

First, a short presentation.

To be honest, it was not necessary, because:

Our guild is mix hardcore-casual, 18+ and we have a high loyalty among our members.

I can only assume therefore that if a certain number dissent, that the others will follow suite. This is an assumption of mine and has no basis in reality, but I thought it worth mentioning

Then people started dropping out slowly.

See above.

1. Its a solo game, with lots of people playing together.
The events are great, but there is no need whatsoever, to have a group or a guild. There is NO reason to play in groups with others, you don’t need other players, as long as they are there, playing solo at your side.
The game is too solo friendly, and too easy. We are missing challenges in the game, that NEED groups and even Guild’s to organize and work together.

Here’s where I take exception. Whilst you can solo, it doesn’t have to be that way at all. I hear a lot of stories about people who go in to this game and don’t find people to gel with. You went in to this as a guild, a clan and a group of fellow players. I cannot fathom how you did not work out. I came here on my own, and have had the time of my life. I consider myself a sociable person, however… and will always be around for others. I cast no disparages on your guild but if you felt like it was solo with all those guild members, then something is very wrong.

- Yes, there are 5 man dungeons, but there is no real reason to go down there. You can easily play to lvl 80 and skip the dungeons. And if you want to go, 5 man is easy to find.

You, an experienced WoW Guild, manage to say this? There’s no real reason to run any dungeon, unless you’re after the loot at the end. WoW gives you a chance at loot, GW2 gives you the karma AND the tokens, to get the gear you presumably would be running for. There’s no reason to run dungeons in any game unless you need to. Luckily in this game, it’s for nice cosmetic skins that YOU get to pick and choose. Not a random chance at “best-in-slot”.

2. Where is the Guild in “Guild Wars”?

What is a guild but a set of people with the same principle and outlook?

Basically, this is the main issue, that our members stopped playing before the reached lvl 80. There is a guild function, but nothing you need a guild to do ingame.

I don’t understand the complaint here.

We raised 200 gold ingame for 2 WvW commanders, but WvW is just a zerg where you dont need a guild. Running in WvW as a guild with a commander, just mean that we lead the zerg around.

I’ve seen a huge amount of bad commanders too. You raised the money, led a zerg then wondered why it didn’t work. here’s a hint, there’s more to WvW than zergs, and more to a commander than 100g for a little tag.

We lost many members because there was no use for them. Most played solo, so those who were looking for group, ended up unanswered, because there was no need, no benefit for groups.

So, your “close-knit” guild of many years couldn’t play together and forced people to go solo? Something fishy here.

I’m sorry but as much as I love this game, I have seen far better rants on these forums than this one.

I started to lose interest in GW2 when the closer I got to endgame, the more I realized it becomes all about resource farming and hoarding. The 100% zone completion is cool, but it simply rewards the type of resources you’d only find valuable if you farm and hoard resources.

I’m hoping that these issues will all be fixed by March. Luckily, there are no major competitors being released from now until then.

Kopipoki.3542:

I disagree with almost everything you said.

I agree with almost everything he said. Kinda funny how that works.

I agree with everything the OP said.

It is a SINGLE player game.

There are NO rewards.

There’s “supposed” to be NO grind, but why not reward those that want to grind.

And there’s sure as hell no “Guild” in GW2.

Many of my friends have left GW2, for various reasons, but why would ArenaNet care, they have their money, and more just buy the game so it’s a happy (For Anet) merry go round.

Here’s a clue, your guild got tired of mmo’s years ago.
The only reason they are still playing is a gear grind, that’s their problem, not the game’s.
Now i do agree that difficulty needs to go up in some parts, but difficulty is not the same as gear grind. Difficulty is “the game getting harder→ you need to get better at it.”
Not “the game getting harder→you need better gear.”

Also in the reward part gw2 can do better, but again, if cosmetic isn’t good enough, seriously stop playing mmo’s. Gear grind is the reason mmo’s are in this state, it’s the reason people “have to” raid every weak, wich is different from “want to”. I don’t want to be behind because i’m going on a 3 week vacation… (i don’t like fractals much tbh, because of this) Now i also don’t mind guild wide content, as long as the content is doable with 5 man aswell, for example instances that scale up, but this is hard to do. GW2 is the best i’ve seen an mmo at launch. It has issues still needing to be solved, but it certainly doesn’t need gear grind.

i have to agree with most points.

-guilds are… bland and not really necessary.
-2 of my friends quit because they dont understand what to work for at endgame, and with real life money you can get everything.
so the “only” skill bragging right you have is your fractal level… ugh, thats cheap (and not enough) for an mmo that big.
-wvwvw is totally unrewarding, need to have a personal ranking system to know whos a squire and whos the king.

anyway, just feeling like the endgame on a single character (endgame being after you have all exo, that alone can be a good 250h, which is good) is lacking is “bragging” right.
most hardcore gamers want other to know they are the best.
need some kind of rating, that boost the ego of some and dont destroy the ego of losers.

You should play that other game, even though they made it all kiddy. rip vanilla 40 mans

I disagree with the OP.

Unlike other MMO’s there is no feeling of need to have to log in to raid/etc… I think that’s a good thing.

If you really want to impart a similar sense of urgency and need to your guild, set goals such as, “keep all of the orrian temples uncontested” or “keep your server in control of stonesmist castle and all POI in EB”. You can even partition and assign time slots and zones to your guild members (ie: person A is required to be at stonemist from 1800 – 2000 GMT, person B is required to keep the temple of lyssa clear from 1200-1400 GMT, etc…)

not saying it needs raid or gear grind.

but maybe more titles to grind for?
maybe housing/halls to work for?
maybe some ranks to shoot for in wvwvw?
just something that says : this guys is to be reckoned with.

^
or; this guild is to be reckoned with.

i cant even see a list of the biggest/richest guilds on my server!
whos the best wvwvw hero on my server!

everybody is “unknown” and “solo”.

thats what i agree on with op.
no pimpin.
you re only virtual dust in virtual wind.

Excellent post OP. And those are the factual reasons GW2 is in major decline.

ArenaNet would be wise to take to heart what you said because it applies to many many folks.

By far the biggest problem is no reason for groups — or worse — guilds.

i’m glad almost everything can be solo’d in guild wars currently as its a pain to find a group without a LFG tool, especially if i’m not doing the flavor of the month dungeon and wish to do something obscure.

anet did an amazing job on graphic and gameplay.
but my opinion is they totally didnt get the “multiplayer online” part of it.
its like diablo 3,
random join and smash thru a dungeon, but dont expect your toon to ever become “somebody” like you could in UO and EvE and WoW and EQ.

Kirinter.8091:

i’m glad almost everything can be solo’d in guild wars currently as its a pain to find a group without a LFG tool, especially if i’m not doing the flavor of the month dungeon and wish to do something obscure.

That’s what guilds are for.

Everyone – especially the developers – is hell-bent on facilitating solo players in mutli-player content. This is to the detriment of the genre and has to stop.

[quote=1158541;Zeldain.5710
That’s what guilds are for.

Everyone – especially the developers – is hell-bent on facilitating solo players in mutli-player content. This is to the detriment of the genre and has to stop.
[/quote]
I disagree…

The “best” groups, IMHO, are those that occur spontaneously whenever two or more people are in the same area working on a common goal, not arbitrarily combined into a “group” through some artificial game mechanism.

I almost always help others in the same area I’m in and almost always find others in the same area helping me, not only because we’re working on the same goals, but also because it’s just the “right thing to do”… without anyone bothering to form a formal group. To my mind, that’s how it should be. Formal groups are artificial.

Fiennes really hit the nail on the head. And to the OP: I can’t believe you had a guild that large and are complaining that the game doesn’t have enough mechanics that force you to be social with each other. wut? smh…

Zeldain.5710:

Kirinter.8091:

i’m glad almost everything can be solo’d in guild wars currently as its a pain to find a group without a LFG tool, especially if i’m not doing the flavor of the month dungeon and wish to do something obscure.

That’s what guilds are for.

Everyone – especially the developers – is hell-bent on facilitating solo players in mutli-player content. This is to the detriment of the genre and has to stop.

What is detriment to the genre is being required to have played content before you can play it. I agree some content for guilds would be nice, but then again, 90% of a player base of any themepark mmo are casuals. I find it funny, GW2 is by far the best in the MMO aspect, cause other players are actually nice to be around, they help, no mobs get tagged, no hating, no stealing and most of all no elitists getting all worked up about “noobs”, now i don’t mind giving up a restricted almost mandatory geargrind for that. The fact you can do almost everything with people not in your guild, doesn’t make it any less fun doing it with your guild. In fact you will always have more fun doing the same thing with your guild as with others. There is no stopping you from doing it, but guilds don’t do it because “a guild isn’t needed for it” while the question should be: "Wouldn’t this be allot more fun with some guildies here? Let’s set something up! "We need to get over the “but i can do it alone so why would i do it with my guild.” thing.

Guilds are their do enrich our experience not to be able to have an experience. If you don’t get that, why do you play mmo’s?

Fox.3469:

Guilds are their do enrich our experience not to be able to have an experience. If you don’t get that, why do you play mmo’s?

Back to my original complaint – too much time and effort by developers as well as too much expectation by players for solo players to be facilitated through group content.

If content was designed for a group it should only be accessible to a well-organized group. The minute you make compromises to it to include anyone who comes along with no communication or coordination required it becomes simply a bad joke.

Lets take an example…

Do you have a favorite band? I’m going to assume yes. Why do you like them? But more than that why are they a good band? Do you think they practice together? Do you think that contributed to their ability to play better or more complex music? It sure does. If 5 random people who may or may not even play an instrument came together chances are you wouldn’t like what you heard. Because they were not a team and therefore not as good.

Another example.

I am watching the NFL playoffs right now. I see two teams competing against each other… Do the same players play on each team each weekend or do they shuffle? Do they pick new teams when they show up at the stadium? Or worse just pick fans from the crowd to play? No. Why not? Because a team can accomplish so much more when working well together.

Those things above don’t facilitate a solo person walking in and having success and neither should group content for an MMO. It should be for well-oiled teams only.

And right now Guild Wars 2 has absolutely ZERO of that. And that my friend is the big problem it faces going forward.

Teams matter. Team play matters. If it’s exclusionary too bad… the players that want it will rise to the occasion.

I do not believe we need raids as WoW does it, i believe Guildwars 2 need to look back at Guildwars 1 and how that worked (successfully i might add) and go back to its roots.

Ditch the dungeons and gear treadmills and go back to how GW1 played..loot wasn’t as necessary and the game was really fun from start to finish..

Dante.1508:

Ditch the dungeons and gear treadmills and go back to how GW1 played..loot wasn’t as necessary and the game was really fun from start to finish..

Guild Wars didn’t really have very many players, certainly not the numbers needed to support a true triple-A MMO like Guild Wars 2 and compete with WoW.

This game is certainly lacking something.

3 weeks ago i made my legendary, i was playing 6 to 8 hours a day, now i only log on 1 time a week becouse there is nothing to do besides grinding.

Sure wvw/spvp is fun for a little while, but it get’s boring fast
Dungeons have no replay value
Fractals have no replay value
Open world has no replay value

The game started off so good, but as soon as i hit lvl 80 and they pretty much threw my end gear in my lap i got bored.

I’ll be looking for something tha will captivate me a little longer (i need a “carrot”) and just hop on the wvw every now and then.

Dear kitten, people got really WoW brainwashed.

To be honest, I played WoW too, raided AQ40 all bosses and Naxx40 some of them. Even played the first two expansions a bit, but got bored by the mindless gear grind.
Thankfully it was not my first MMO, because the glorified grind is such a cheap excuse for missing content. You heard right. Raids might look like content, but they are just an excuse to place most of the community in a small arena to repeat the same stuff over and over again (like FotM).

I grew up with MMOs with minimal generated content, no instances (in the sense of restricted amount of players) and slow leveling. We made our content ourselves killing bosses in lairs sometimes with a zerg, sometimes in a small group.
Leveling was part of the game, not some necessary evil to get to the real game. PvP happened, without calling names, as most people knew each other and it was alot of fun. Gear was all the same, nothing special, just common and uncommon, but as nothing was soulbound, that was not a problem.

Nowadays, MMOs offer everything on a silverplate, but people seem to have lost any imagination. They just want be spoon feeded with “content”, whatever it might be.

I do not say that GW2 is perfect, nor that it is the right game for me, or that I like it. But it offers way more then some people realise. If you want a raid for braindead gear grinding every few weeks, go to one of the other bazillion MMOs out there.

Honestly, I think the ‘problem’ that a lot of guilds are facing in this game is simply that players aren’t being pushed into them by the game anymore. Guilds aren’t required, they’re an option that makes some things easier. Bad leadership, impersonal leadership, disorganization or lack of care at the top actually has consequences now. People don’t need to suffer through a worse game experience simply so they can get good gear. That’s a good thing.

If your guild couldn’t hold together without being pushed together by game mechanics, you didn’t actually have a good guild. If your friends don’t like each other well enough to hang out together, they aren’t really friends.

I’m an active member of 2 guilds, and you know what? The leadership organizes guild events. We talk a lot on chat, regardless of if we’re playing together. One is even explicitly cross-server, and it’s rarely an issue because the leaders are organized and effective. I can see that it’s frustrating your guild wasn’t good enough to survive without being a requirement, but that’s not the game’s fault.

GW2 doesn’t kill guilds, bad leadership and guild structure kills guilds. GW2 simply doesn’t require guilds, so they have to stand on their own merits.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Leveling was part of the game, not some necessary evil to get to the real game.

Indeed it was. Now developers make games where you level every time you sneeze.

And look at all the content they basically waste. They could have launched this game with a level cap of 20, and increased it an additional 20 every few months. It would have done them good to have more time to fix all that bugged content, and it would have forced them to develop a more diverse experience with far more mini-games and mini-game style content.

Zeldain.5710:

Guild Wars didn’t really have very many players, certainly not the numbers needed to support a true triple-A MMO like Guild Wars 2 and compete with WoW.

Actually, GW1 sold 5M+ boxes. Certainly not all those players were concurrent, but the numbers were there.

Dante.1508:

I do not believe we need raids as WoW does it, i believe Guildwars 2 need to look back at Guildwars 1 and how that worked (successfully i might add) and go back to its roots.

Ditch the dungeons and gear treadmills and go back to how GW1 played..loot wasn’t as necessary and the game was really fun from start to finish..

The thing is, though, that GW1’s lifespan was lengthened because of GW2. Long after everyone had beaten all the campaigns and EotN, they were grinding titles for the Hall of Monuments while looking forward to GW2. There is no GW3 to provide that impetus for GW2.

xiv.7136:

wOOOOt.6407:

3. We are missing engame challenges, raids AND the grind for better loot.
Yes yes, I/we know. GW2 is a mmo where endgame gear stats are capped for all, and easy to get to. Its all about finding better looking gear, and stand out in the crowd..
- That is just fine, if Arenanet want GW2 to loose players all the time from boredom

wOOOOt.6407:

3. We are missing the grind for better loot.

This.

This, in essence, is what you’re trying to say.

Simply put, GW2 is not the game for you if you want to feel more powerful by joining a gear rat race with ever-increasing stat requirements.

It is not designed to be that, and it will never be that. It’s about having fun with friends/guildies and getting more skill, more experience and understanding of the game – not more gear.

Play something else.

You can come back when you’ve stopped attaching your real life ego to gear in a game.

the gear rat race to increase character performance is already here and more racing to come with ascended gear.

what do you think is going to happen when there are level increases? more gear rat races perhaps?

i highly doubt this game will ever have a robust non gear related character development system because it is much simpler to add gear progression and call it a month. also, gear progression can be sold through the bltc so expect to see a lot more gear treadmills.

i know you didn’t mention the manifesto but if you are still going by that pr advertising junk then i’ve got a really nice bridge to sell ya.

I agree with you that GW2 needs more activities that demand group co-ordination. At the moment, the only activity that really benefits from large scale co-ordination is high level WvW strategy (which I assure you consists of more than rolling around in one big zerg).

However given your otherwise well presented points, I am simply astounded that you think an endless gear grind would be a good thing. To me, vertical progression is like playing on a chess server where your reward for winning games is that you get to start with more pieces on the board. There’s no “progression”, you only keep up with other active players, and it makes a joke of the game mechanics when you have such an advantage over newer players.

Progression in GW1 was not just about getting nice looking armor, but about expanding your skill library and learning to play certain class roles in endgame PvE or PvP. This isn’t really possible in GW2 because they’ve simplified the skill system which makes it more accessible but leaves less room for creative builds.

So yeah, I think raids would be a great idea (or even PvE in a WvW environment, imagine that) but NO to gear grinding!

2. Where is the Guild in “Guild Wars”?

I remember back in GW1 my Guild (still same one I’m in in GW2) would have parties in the Guild Hall and set up dungeon runs, Alliance Battles etc. etc. This game (GW2) has been aimed at the me, me, me generation. So many good people have left

I agree wholeheartedly with 1 & 2. I agree with the spirit of #3 but not exactly what you wrote. When you’re out in the world, there really isn’t a need to be in a party, grouping with each other. Now, Orr would like to have a word with that idea – but fractals destroyed that area so it’s really a non point.

As for your point #2? totally agree. I was found and leader of an almost 60 member guild. It is INCREDIBLY difficult to organize large scale guild events in this game. WvW? You’re limited to groups of 5. Seriously hampers large scale team tactics and coordination. Commanders and their squad implementation is a joke. It offers no diversity, no coordination and no organization other than follow the blue thing on the map. Other than buffs, what good do guilds do in WvW? It shows your insignia, but who is supposed to know that represents YOUR guild? What kind of recognition do WvW oriented guilds get for helping their server in battle? What kind of rewards?

In sPvP it was an absolute DUMB idea not to allow guilds to be able to go into servers as teams in mess around. Only limiting guilds to 5v5 in tournaments was just a slap in the face. In every other game guilds are able to go in and play together…why not here?

As for your 3rd point. No, including a gear treadmill in this game wouldn’t work and it’d alienate a huge section of their fans, as did the announcement and introduction of Ascended gear. HOWEVER they should have and could still add lots of creative methods for vertical progression that would keep lots of people still playing:

- Elite skill hunts
- Trait skill hunts
- Utility skill hunts
- New weapon and weapon skills and more

The original GW had these sorts of things and it kept people interested and playing Loooooong after they had finished the original storyline/traditional content of the game. This would add lots of depth to the game’s PvE and WvW, and as they added more skills, it’d keep the sPvP meta fresh and exciting. But they can’t do this sort of thing, because 8 months from our first chance at a beta weekend and 4 months past launch there are still NUMEROUS broken abilities, bugged traits, incorrect tooltips (seriously these should have been fixed in beta) and glitches galore in about every class.

In short:

- There is no ‘Guild in Guild Wars’
- The major content systems in the game lack creativity and breadth; PvE has simply boiled down to fractal spamming, WvW is merely zerging around or getting zerged around, and sPvP is on its deathbed with a lack of variety in maps which kills strategy/team composition/meta diversity and a serious lack of features all around.

This game didn’t deserve the hype.

“3. We are missing engame challenges, raids AND the grind for better loot.
Yes yes, I/we know. GW2 is a mmo where endgame gear stats are capped for all, and easy to get to. Its all about finding better looking gear, and stand out in the crowd..
- That is just fine, if Arenanet want GW2 to loose players all the time from boredom.”

This x3,000, this is the biggest problem with the game hands down, it ruined the entire game and made it no fun and the most boring MMO to date. Fix it please.

I totally agree with the OP.GW2 is very mych solo friendly.I still try to find a reason why should i group with people when i can do everything alone.
And what is the guild here for?I have more than 1k hours played and still can’t find a good group or guild to do things with it.It doesn’t mater is it WvW,dungeons,events or even gathering materials.
OP’s points 1 and 2 hit right in the spot.GW2 is solo and casual friendly but fails to make people do something as a solid progressive group.Pugs and Zergs are not such groups.
And about the guild I absolutely agree with the OP.There must be a reason to be in a guild.Right now i have 0 interest to be in one.If i am in a guild I want to do something with it’s members.Is it WvW,dungeons,events it just doesn’t matter what.As long we do something together.
So yea GW2 is the game for casuals and people who like to play solo,but currently it’s not for other people than those 2 categories.
If the game was not buy to play it would have failed miserably.THat is the only thing that saved it.

In all of my life, I have not disagreed with a post more than I do with the OP of this thread. The OP’s entire post can be summed into 4 words: “This is not WoW”. And somehow he goes on to make this sound like it is a bad thing.

No, it’s not WoW. It is solo friendly. BiS endgame gear used to be easy to get, but now you’ve gotten your wish and there’s a gear treadmill so enjoy that… And finally more Guild based stuff is on the way.

But I really don’t get it. You have how many other gear grinders out there? Why in the world do you people keep coming to the successor of the wildly successful Guild Wars 1 and keep trying to demand it do everything WoW did and nothing GW1 did? It boggles my mind.

3. We are missing engame challenges, raids AND the grind for better loot.
Yes yes, I/we know. GW2 is a mmo where endgame gear stats are capped for all, and easy to get to. Its all about finding better looking gear, and stand out in the crowd..
- That is just fine, if Arenanet want GW2 to loose players all the time from boredom.

Guild Wars 1 did just fine without that. More than just fine.

Tolmos.8395:

In all of my life, I have not disagreed with a post more than I do with the OP of this thread. The OP’s entire post can be summed into 4 words: “This is not WoW”. And somehow he goes on to make this sound like it is a bad thing.

No, it’s not WoW. It is solo friendly. BiS endgame gear used to be easy to get, but now you’ve gotten your wish and there’s a gear treadmill so enjoy that… And finally more Guild based stuff is on the way.

But I really don’t get it. You have how many other gear grinders out there? Why in the world do you people keep coming to the successor of the wildly successful Guild Wars 1 and keep trying to demand it do everything WoW did and nothing GW1 did? It boggles my mind.

3. We are missing engame challenges, raids AND the grind for better loot.
Yes yes, I/we know. GW2 is a mmo where endgame gear stats are capped for all, and easy to get to. Its all about finding better looking gear, and stand out in the crowd..
- That is just fine, if Arenanet want GW2 to loose players all the time from boredom.

Guild Wars 1 did just fine without that. More than just fine.

The simple answer?
Because they don’t want GW2. Even if they do not realise it, they want another WoW, just in a different setting as they want to re-experience their “first love”. So they try to change this new relationship in what was once their love.
Like in real relationships this will not end well, because either you accept the new partner the way he/she is, or you will live a lie.

Get over it, get over it.

If I was forced to have a group/guild in order to progress I would quit and find another game.

The only reason Everquest succeeded with this mindset is because it was the only choice on the market, Final Fantasy XIV tried to force players to group and it died one of the quickest deaths in MMO history.

MMO population kittenes and moans about every mmo being a “WoW Clone”. Arena-Net brings forth a game that try’s to take a different path from pretty much every single mmo released in the last few years. Now people kitten and moan about it not being a “WoW Clone” and make ridiculous threads about how the game will die or fail or whatever doom and gloom if its not changed.

You people have no idea what you want. This game has a lot to offer but so many people are still stuck on the mechanics of previous mmo’s and just will not let it go. Also the Guild in Guild Wars has to do with the lore http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Guild_Wars.

I just dont understand this, why do people need to be forced to play the way they like? is it that hard to choose to play the way you like yourself?

Yes most of Gw2 can be soloed no doubt but there are many advantages in playing it as a group as well. Its absolutely not true that you gain anything. Here is what advantages you gain if you do a guild party to tackle Dynamic Events:

- Events scales up thus it becomes more challanging (provided you dont go over the 10 person scale limit of most DE).
- you get more mobs due to the scale up which in turn means more loot hence higher rewards
- if you’re in a party with guild members you will earn more influence for your guild.
- In a party you can support each other, hence you can make the game more tactical.

You might not need a guild for WvW, but it surely makes the expeirance a lot more enjoyable having one. To be effective in WvW you need co-ordination. You need to split into teams and tackle different objectives. Disrubt supply, keep main army busy, attack wall / door, stop re-inforcements. Destory enemy Siege weapons etc… Its possible to do this with your whole server but a lost easier to co-ordinate with your guild.

The game doesnt force you to team up and thats a good thing, some people enjoy playing solo. But if you want to play with your guild the game doesnt stop you either, infact it rewards you for it.

So no disrespect but if your guild members decided to play solo rather then team up, its because they prefered to play that way and not because the game made them.

I do agree with your point that the game is a bit too easy though. It could certainly use some more hard content no doubt.

This isn’t WoW. If you want WoW but with better graphics, put pressure on the WoW devs to make that game instead of pressure on ANet to make this game more like WoW.

We’re a similar guild, just smaller in size. Strong loyalty, no one leaves, alive for 8 years spanning many games.

We really like GW2. Personally disagree with #3. I don’t want a gear grind. I want to have fun, not obsess over the next tier of gear to be competitive.

GW2 for us is a playground; you make your own fun. WvW can be a blast. More large group activities would be good (why, for example, are special events like Wintersday and Halloween so hard to play as a guild group?)

Re #2 people often mistake the “Guild Wars” part – it refers to the lore, not a feature. But regardless i’d like to see GvG added, and i’m sure it will be at some point.

Tolmos.8395:

In all of my life, I have not disagreed with a post more than I do with the OP of this thread. The OP’s entire post can be summed into 4 words: “This is not WoW”. And somehow he goes on to make this sound like it is a bad thing.

No, it’s not WoW. It is solo friendly. BiS endgame gear used to be easy to get, but now you’ve gotten your wish and there’s a gear treadmill so enjoy that… And finally more Guild based stuff is on the way.

But I really don’t get it. You have how many other gear grinders out there? Why in the world do you people keep coming to the successor of the wildly successful Guild Wars 1 and keep trying to demand it do everything WoW did and nothing GW1 did? It boggles my mind.

3. We are missing engame challenges, raids AND the grind for better loot.
Yes yes, I/we know. GW2 is a mmo where endgame gear stats are capped for all, and easy to get to. Its all about finding better looking gear, and stand out in the crowd..
- That is just fine, if Arenanet want GW2 to loose players all the time from boredom.

Guild Wars 1 did just fine without that. More than just fine.

No… it amounts to “this is not an MMO.”

And GW1 didn’t do just fine. It was a small niche game… if you’re ready to admit that’s what GW2 is, I’m ok with that.

Zeldain.5710:

No… it amounts to “this is not an MMO.”

Can you expand on this a bit? Because what you just said makes no sense (to me, at least).

Peetee.9406:

If I was forced to have a group/guild in order to progress I would quit and find another game.

The only reason Everquest succeeded with this mindset is because it was the only choice on the market, Final Fantasy XIV tried to force players to group and it died one of the quickest deaths in MMO history.

We cannot have this attitude going forward.

MMOs offer a very unique proposition in the way that they foster cooperative or competitive gameplay with progression intertwined. There is no other genre that offers it, and the core differentiator is the group content that makes it all possible.

We cannot any longer try to facilitate solo players into this content designed for groups. It’s making the overall experience for everyone anemic and any unique advantages about the genre are evaporating.

The NFL doesn’t field teams of volunteers. The Rolling Stones are not compromised of walk-on musicians. They are well practiced and consistent teams. The same must be said for MMO group content unless we want to see the genre wither away.

To all the people who agree with 1&3, please understand that the only problem here is that Guild Wars is not for you. There are other games on the market (in fact, there are tons of them) that think this is the way forward, not this game. These two points are not in this game by design, as in GW1.

2 is clearly a problem though. The guilds in this game are basically a friend list sharing buffs and a common storage. We need guild-based competitive play !