Guild Wars 2

Rizzy.8293:

Nappychappy.7046:

I was watching the boys play pandaland today, lower level zones have tons of people in them, I’ve heard them cuss out loud after being ganked, or laughing their kitten off after ganking, those are the things that make people log in day after day. Also, building some attachment to you little pixel man/woman in the process.

One thing about this game, I give zero farks about any of my characters. But this guy, I luv em’, even though I no longer play and have no desire to play again esp after RAF.

Rizzy.8293:

Nappychappy.7046:

Rizzy.8293:

Nappychappy.7046:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

You are rewarded for playing the game.
What is the problem here??

Do you want to be rewarded for doing nothing??
Do you not want to be rewarded at all??

I just got back from not playing Gw2 for a week…

Did I lose anything?

No.

Am I going to be punished?

No.

Where in your diluted minds do you feel that the dailies MUST be done?

Why do you feel that doing a daily is “a chore?”

The word daily.

When x is given by doing x once a day and only once, it becomes a chore. Why not let people just get as many as they want in 1 sitting?

Because thats bad game design?
Oh I see you beaten the horrible ogre monster, take as many as my virgin daughters as you wish!

What the hell.

Do you not understand the part that you’re not forced to do them.
You have a freaking choice.

You’re not forced, and you gain no advantage, what’s the point of locking out people who don’t play every day? This game is made for people who play in moderation and then gives rewards to those who are committed to logging in every day. So which is it? A game you occasionally play, or one you must commit to in order to get rewards?

-edit, btw, I’ve only done 1 daily since they were introduced.

Gain no advantage?
What you talking about Willis?

You get to trade in your laurels for awesome cosmetic stuff like minipets and unident dyes and even ascended accessories.

Again things that you DONT need, sure ascended trinkets and stuff are nice to have, so work for them for if you want, I only started playing Gw2 again 16 days ago and I have 16 laurels, how is this a chore?

Log in, nothing to do, look at dailies, do dailies, run a couple of dungeons, clear a map call it a night in 3 hours.

Do you take an entire day to do your dailies?

Dailies are something I do at the start and it takes 40 minutes tops.

Cosmedics, mini’s, ascend is an advantage? BTW, did you read where I said I only did 1 daily since they were introduced? I don’t think they are a chore because I don’t care about them; however ANet should stick it out with a design choice and stop jumping all over the place.

A marginal Advantage thats easy to get.
And yes Anet shouldnt have added them that much I agree, after saying no gear grind.

Thing is, you say you dont care, yet you are here giving cares.
Whats up with that?

They never stated anywhere that there was no gear grind. Even in the manifesto it doesn’t say no gear grind. It says no grind but it does not say for what. Grind for levels based on the context but players implied gear when in the forums and every where they have stated there will be a vertical and horizontal progression in gear since beta. The vertical will be minor tho.

Lolicia.6502:

I also got tired of all this time gated content and tired of having to log in every day so as not to fall behind (or at least have my alts fall behind, and they help make the game fresh). So now I will rarely log in. The poor game has fallen so far from its original manifesto.

The Manifesto still applies. You just misunderstand what it meant.

TooBz.3065:

tolunart.2095:

Yes! I use all my laurels instead of stockpiling them to buy Ascended gear for all my toons! Because guess what… ASCENDED GEAR IS MEANINGLESS TO CASUAL PLAYERS. If you care about BIS gear, you’re not casual.

I don’t want to get into a semantic fight over this. But earlier in the thread it was asserted that the distinction between casual and hardcore was that for hardcore players dailies just happen because they play so much.

Now, it is asserted that the difference between casual and hardcore is whether you care about ascended gear.

I don’t care what definition we use as long as it is recognized that there can exist a group of people can both care about ascended gear and find daily’s to be a terrible chore.

LOL I’m not going to argue about the definition of casual either… I’m using MY definition of casual, I don’t care whether you agree or not.

That’s good. I felt like I was one or two posts away from an existential crisis.

Just throw an “IMO” into my posts wherever necessary.

I havent done my daily in several days now… I play for fun, not to get the best gear, not to get laurels. I play for fun

I get my dailies just by playing the game the way I want to.

I don’t feel like I have to get any ascended gear because there isn’t really any gated content (I just do low fractal levels so no need for higher gear). It is just a nice extra goal for me to have.

I must be doing it wrong.

No one is saying anyone is “doing it wrong.” I don’t understand the need to people to invalidate other peoples feeling or experiences with the game.

Emosewa.9731:

The majority of people are missing the point in this thread. It’s not that anyone HAS to do them, or NEEDs to do them….it’s that the design creates a situation that causes players to feel like if they don’t do them they are missing out on something they need to get what they want. Does that mean the world will end? Of course not…but that doesn’t make it good design either.

For a great many players, dailies control what they do in the game…in a game that specifically made “play the way you want to play” their log line! And yes…it affects the more casual than the less casual. Take three groups of players:

The very casual that only have time to log in a few times a week…are screwed. They’re not going to get the items via hardcore routes as they are probably still level 5 or 6 in fractals. They’re going to get laurels very slowly as they may not even finish the monthly, let alone a daily more than twice a week. And when they DO get to log on, they feel compelled to do the daily as it’s the only slow path to getting what they want.

The average player probably has time to log in most nights, but not for a long period of time. Maybe an hour a night. For these people they are given a choice between doing the dailies or doing what they want to do. The problem is, a great many of these people will feel compelled to do the daily because they want to work towards progressing their character, and they get stuck in a rut of feeling like playing for fun costs them getting what they want on their character…which is not fun.

For the hardcore player…none of this matters. They are going to get the gear via other means, and they play so much that the time it takes to do a daily doesn’t matter. In fact…they play enough that they probably don’t even have to look at the dailies because they just happen.

Pro daily arguments that come from a stand point of “they just happen”, “it doesn’t take long to do them”, etc…are really irrelevant because those arguments support a play style that is completely unaffected by dailies.

Arguments of “they don’t give you much so it’s not a big deal if you miss them”…miss the point. As long as they are the ONLY avenue to attaining a currency that gives things people want…they pressure the player into playing a certain way and that is bad design.

fyi…the time that was spent typing out this post, you coulda done your daily ;x

hmmmmm….

The whole point of the mmorpg genre is for you to log in everyday, why is that so hard to understand. This isn’t Dragon Age, Mass Effect, GW1, Neverwinter Nights, Baldurs Gate, Grimrock, Fallout, or any other standard rpg, just with people in it. One of the main selling points in a mmorpg is the fact it has A REAL LIVING PEOPLE POPULATION OF PLAYERS. If you don’t log in every day, there is less population, less population, people get discouraged, people get discouraged, they stop playing, less population etc etc. Eventually no one plays!!!! That’s the secret behind time gating, it’s the secret behind dailies, that’s the secret behind vertical progression.

If you don’t have time to log in everyday, MMORPG’s are not the genre for you because they WILL contain mechanics that make you want to log in every day!!

That said, GW2 has less of that than any other MMORPG out there, so be happy about that.

killcannon.2576:

The whole point of the mmorpg genre is for you to log in everyday, why is that so hard to understand. This isn’t Dragon Age, Mass Effect, GW1, Neverwinter Nights, Baldurs Gate, Grimrock, Fallout, or any other standard rpg, just with people in it. One of the main selling points in a mmorpg is the fact it has A REAL LIVING PEOPLE POPULATION OF PLAYERS. If you don’t log in every day, there is less population, less population, people get discouraged, people get discouraged, they stop playing, less population etc etc. Eventually no one plays!!!! That’s the secret behind time gating, it’s the secret behind dailies, that’s the secret behind vertical progression.

If you don’t have time to log in everyday, MMORPG’s are not the genre for you because they WILL contain mechanics that make you want to log in every day!!

That said, GW2 has less of that than any other MMORPG out there, so be happy about that.

Ok. But then couldn’t the daily be, play the game for 30 minutes doing whatever you want?

Say no to token grind!

TooBz.3065:

killcannon.2576:

The whole point of the mmorpg genre is for you to log in everyday, why is that so hard to understand. This isn’t Dragon Age, Mass Effect, GW1, Neverwinter Nights, Baldurs Gate, Grimrock, Fallout, or any other standard rpg, just with people in it. One of the main selling points in a mmorpg is the fact it has A REAL LIVING PEOPLE POPULATION OF PLAYERS. If you don’t log in every day, there is less population, less population, people get discouraged, people get discouraged, they stop playing, less population etc etc. Eventually no one plays!!!! That’s the secret behind time gating, it’s the secret behind dailies, that’s the secret behind vertical progression.

If you don’t have time to log in everyday, MMORPG’s are not the genre for you because they WILL contain mechanics that make you want to log in every day!!

That said, GW2 has less of that than any other MMORPG out there, so be happy about that.

Ok. But then couldn’t the daily be, play the game for 30 minutes doing whatever you want?

Dailies are currently structured to take you places the Devs want to see more player activity in, that’s why they are set up the way they are. Each day they have you go to certain areas to make that area seem more active. Sometimes Ascalon, sometimes Kryta, sometimes Shiverpeaks. It’s a way to manipulate the player base going where they want it to go. They are also trying to make the Living Story part of the game seem more populated, that’s why you see Shiverpeaks and Ascalonian Killer, Vet Killer, Event completer show up so much.

All in all it’s a way to manipulate and herd player population to parts of the game they feel need more attention or population so they can make claims of living world. If people just wandered around doing whatever they want for thirty minutes, there is no guarantee the population would be spread out or be where they want them to congregate.

The fact is, dailies make your character stronger. In this game it’s like they can’t decide between hardcore or casual, and mixing the two usually won’t work. You can’t play casually and be on par with everyone else. This is a problem for myself, because I’m a college student. I’m a hardcore gamer that has to resort to playing casually because of time restrictions. And because of it, I can’t be on the level I want to be. You can say GW1 isn’t an mmo all you want, but if that system of no more vertical progression was implemented it would literally work perfectly for what they are trying to accomplish. Dailies would be better if they could reward you via skins that are a visual representation of hard work and dedication.

And this is my opinion so I wish others wouldn’t tell me I’m applying to everyone and everything. I feel like people are just accepting it because they don’t see a way it could be improved. I know it could be way better with such simple things, that’ why i get a little kitten about it.

Sokina.8041:

I read the entire thread, and my response is still this.

ITT: “Dailies are bad because it makes players feel like they need to do them.”

The game, or the devs, aren’t responsible for obsessive and/or compulsive behavior. They do not need to massively change design choices just because a few people whip themselves into a frenzy thinking they NEED to do everything, that they NEED to have everything.

^ This

I would recommend to everyone that if they feel they have a problem playing a game in a virtual world, and can’t live life without achieving everything in said game, you should seek professional help. Or you should take a break from playing and smell the roses outside. I hear the sun is quite beautiful in the morning.

ScottBroChill.3254:

In this game it’s like they can’t decide between hardcore or casual, and mixing the two usually won’t work. You can’t play casually and be on par with everyone else.

…

And this is my opinion so I wish others wouldn’t tell me I’m applying to everyone and everything. I feel like people are just accepting it because they don’t see a way it could be improved. I know it could be way better with such simple things, that’ why i get a little kitten about it.

The problem is that by ‘simple things’ it sounds like sacrificing hardcores in favor of casuals. That’s kind of a bad idea there, honestly.

Uruz Six.6594:

ScottBroChill.3254:

In this game it’s like they can’t decide between hardcore or casual, and mixing the two usually won’t work. You can’t play casually and be on par with everyone else.

…

And this is my opinion so I wish others wouldn’t tell me I’m applying to everyone and everything. I feel like people are just accepting it because they don’t see a way it could be improved. I know it could be way better with such simple things, that’ why i get a little kitten about it.

The problem is that by ‘simple things’ it sounds like sacrificing hardcores in favor of casuals. That’s kind of a bad idea there, honestly.

this is why they should stick to cosmetics for the hardcore. It worked in the past, why fix what isn’t broken? They represent dedication but don’t kitten you for not obtaining them.

Whether your opinion is that power creep doesn’t bother you or it does, it’s still there. It’s factual that equally skilled players, the one with ascending gear will have the upper hand over someone with exotics. You can’t deny facts, it just seems plain ignorant to me.

TooBz.3065:

I don’t care what definition we use as long as it is recognized that there can exist a group of people can both care about ascended gear and find daily’s to be a terrible chore.

But you can never please everyone. If you have played other MMOs, you’ll realize that ANet’s dailies are much less grindy than others. Certainly, a lot less compulsory as well. If you care about Ascended gear, you can also get them on Fractals (which may help you with certain dailies anyway).

I believe what Tolunart said, and he is right, is that the feeling of “I must do dailies everyday” is in your head, not in the game. Even if you care so much for the ascended gear, even if you are hardcore, this is just a game. And any needs you feel towards it is in your head and can be diagnosed as a disorder depending on the level of it. ANet has just created one mechanism, a game feature, not a disease. In that sense, I don’t think dailies hurt those who know how do deal with it, so asking to remove it just because you don’t like it seems a little self-centrism.

No one says you have to do them. I think I’ve done…maybe 3??..since they started them. And those just happened.

If your game has become a job, it because you made it one.

ScottBroChill.3254:

Whether your opinion is that power creep doesn’t bother you or it does, it’s still there. It’s factual that equally skilled players, the one with ascending gear will have the upper hand over someone with exotics. You can’t deny facts, it just seems plain ignorant to me.

Because where you keep repeating ‘equally skilled players’, I have yet to see anything here that shows that the difference between Legendary, Ascended, and Exotic covers the potential variance in skill of the player behind the keyboard. I can arm myself with a baseball bat and give Bear Grylls a stick and I’m pretty sure he’s still gonna beat me silly. Likewise I can grind my way to Ascended, but there’s probably kids half my age in exotics who could pwn me in a New York minute.

And using words like ‘ignorant’ isn’t a good way to get people to join your cause. Just sayin’.

Emosewa.9731:

Dailies are horrible. In every game. The fastest way to make a game go from fun to a job…is adding dailies. And if you add a daily that rewards a currency type that is attainable in no other way…it’s just plain kitten poor design.

Anything that forces players to feel like the MUST log in DAILY or fall behind on their quest for whatever they want is terrible. When I get home from a long day at work, finish dinner, put the kid to bed, and feel like kicking back and watching a little TV or reading a book before bed…but suddenly remember “Oh Crap, I have to log in and get my daily for that stupid Laurel”…I get overcome with a desire to punch someone. Well, ok, not overcome :-)…but seriously, who thinks this is a reasonable way to treat the player base?

I’m sorry…that came out more rant-like than I intended…but the whole idea of dailies just makes me angry.

Give 30 laurels or 40 laurels or whatever you want for the monthly and just give gold and exp and karma for the stupid dailies already. Or 7 for weeklies that can be finished in a single play session.

Dailies. Are. Poor. Design.

/rant off

I agree 110%! Down with the dailies!

Uruz Six.6594:

ScottBroChill.3254:

Whether your opinion is that power creep doesn’t bother you or it does, it’s still there. It’s factual that equally skilled players, the one with ascending gear will have the upper hand over someone with exotics. You can’t deny facts, it just seems plain ignorant to me.

Because where you keep repeating ‘equally skilled players’, I have yet to see anything here that shows that the difference between Legendary, Ascended, and Exotic covers the potential variance in skill of the player behind the keyboard. I can arm myself with a baseball bat and give Bear Grylls a stick and I’m pretty sure he’s still gonna beat me silly. Likewise I can grind my way to Ascended, but there’s probably kids half my age in exotics who could pwn me in a New York minute.

And using words like ‘ignorant’ isn’t a good way to get people to join your cause. Just sayin’.

the term “equally skilled” is hypothetical in most cases because yes, it’s nearly impossible to have. I’m just saying that, that shouldn’t be an excuse. And if you take it personally when I say people who ignore facts and actually numbers in the game are ignorant, than yes I believe that to be true. That is exactly what ignorant means.

If you just play the game dailies will do themselves, they always do, especially now, when they added new options. Yea, of course they want people to log in everyday, why wouldn’t they? DUH. Just skip whatever days you don’t feel like playing, 1 laurel isn’t that much anyways.

ScottBroChill.3254:

the term “equally skilled” is hypothetical in most cases because yes, it’s nearly impossible to have. I’m just saying that, that shouldn’t be an excuse.

Its not an excuse. You’re basing your argument entirely on your hypothetical. You want to talk about power creep and you have numbers, that’s a good start. Now show us examples in game.

And if you take it personally when I say people who ignore facts and actually numbers in the game are ignorant, than yes I believe that to be true. That is exactly what ignorant means.

Yes, I do tend to take it personally when you lob around something insulting like calling people ignorant. We’re human beings here, not NPCs.

Uruz Six.6594:

ScottBroChill.3254:

the term “equally skilled” is hypothetical in most cases because yes, it’s nearly impossible to have. I’m just saying that, that shouldn’t be an excuse.

Its not an excuse. You’re basing your argument entirely on your hypothetical. You want to talk about power creep and you have numbers, that’s a good start. Now show us examples in game.

And if you take it personally when I say people who ignore facts and actually numbers in the game are ignorant, than yes I believe that to be true. That is exactly what ignorant means.

Yes, I do tend to take it personally when you lob around something insulting like calling people ignorant. We’re human beings here, not NPCs.

I mean no, it’s not hypothetical that armor with higher stats is technically better. That’s about as true as anything can get. You can look at the armor stats yourself and see the difference because I don’t feel the need to have to provide a link since it’s in the game.

I didn’t specifically target you and call you ignorant, so don’t say that. I stated a description of someone who ignores numbers and says they don’t matter if you don’t want them to matter, that’s ignoring the issue. This isn’t name calling, it’s describing the actions your are taking.

Human beings should be able to take constructive criticism and if your only way to argue back is that your feeling are hurt and I shouldn’t say that, than that makes me feel like you have nothing to defend your points and side of the argument.

ScottBroChill.3254:

Uruz Six.6594:

ScottBroChill.3254:

the term “equally skilled” is hypothetical in most cases because yes, it’s nearly impossible to have. I’m just saying that, that shouldn’t be an excuse.

Its not an excuse. You’re basing your argument entirely on your hypothetical. You want to talk about power creep and you have numbers, that’s a good start. Now show us examples in game.

And if you take it personally when I say people who ignore facts and actually numbers in the game are ignorant, than yes I believe that to be true. That is exactly what ignorant means.

Yes, I do tend to take it personally when you lob around something insulting like calling people ignorant. We’re human beings here, not NPCs.

I mean no, it’s not hypothetical that armor with higher stats is technically better. That’s about as true as anything can get. You can look at the armor stats yourself and see the difference because I don’t feel the need to have to provide a link since it’s in the game.

I didn’t specifically target you and call you ignorant, so don’t say that. I stated a description of someone who ignores numbers and says they don’t matter if you don’t want them to matter, that’s ignoring the issue. This isn’t name calling, it’s describing the actions your are taking.

Human beings should be able to take constructive criticism and if your only way to argue back is that your feeling are hurt and I shouldn’t say that, than that makes me feel like you have nothing to defend your points and side of the argument.

Well that not prof your just saying x is y so z is A. Just become something has a slightly higher stats on it dose not make it the way your calling it. If you needed these higher stats to do far higher events (more then one) then that is prof. Your missing the link between y and z you need a y is z or x is A. There no link needed to make your points but you have no means of defending your point of view at all. At best your just using a talking point or a sound bit to make it seem as if you know what your talking about.

Um, no. The numbers are higher on ascended gear than exotics. That’s true. I don’t want my gear being better than other peoples in terms of that and I don’t think other peoples armor should be better than mine. Now, it’s an OPINION whether you think those number difference matter. What’s the point of adding higher stats if they don’t matter, or at least give an advantage?

In other words, 5 will always be greater than 4.

Emosewa.9731:

The majority of people are missing the point in this thread. It’s not that anyone HAS to do them, or NEEDs to do them….it’s that the design creates a situation that causes players to feel like if they don’t do them they are missing out on something they need to get what they want. Does that mean the world will end? Of course not…but that doesn’t make it good design either.

For a great many players, dailies control what they do in the game…in a game that specifically made “play the way you want to play” their log line! And yes…it affects the more casual than the less casual. Take three groups of players:

The very casual that only have time to log in a few times a week…are screwed. They’re not going to get the items via hardcore routes as they are probably still level 5 or 6 in fractals. They’re going to get laurels very slowly as they may not even finish the monthly, let alone a daily more than twice a week. And when they DO get to log on, they feel compelled to do the daily as it’s the only slow path to getting what they want.

The average player probably has time to log in most nights, but not for a long period of time. Maybe an hour a night. For these people they are given a choice between doing the dailies or doing what they want to do. The problem is, a great many of these people will feel compelled to do the daily because they want to work towards progressing their character, and they get stuck in a rut of feeling like playing for fun costs them getting what they want on their character…which is not fun.

For the hardcore player…none of this matters. They are going to get the gear via other means, and they play so much that the time it takes to do a daily doesn’t matter. In fact…they play enough that they probably don’t even have to look at the dailies because they just happen.

Pro daily arguments that come from a stand point of “they just happen”, “it doesn’t take long to do them”, etc…are really irrelevant because those arguments support a play style that is completely unaffected by dailies.

Arguments of “they don’t give you much so it’s not a big deal if you miss them”…miss the point. As long as they are the ONLY avenue to attaining a currency that gives things people want…they pressure the player into playing a certain way and that is bad design.

Causes CERTAIN players to feel like they have to. Not all players. For one thing, certain players enjoy having that direction. For another thing, certain players don’t care. If you’re the type of person that feels you have to get them, then I feel sympathy for your plight. But they can’t design a game just for one type of player.

Making them weekly wouldn’t be a solution for a lot of players, because some players want something to orient them every day. You can’t please everyone.

As dailies go, these are about as easy as they get.

ScottBroChill.3254:

Um, no. The numbers are higher on ascended gear than exotics. That’s true. I don’t want my gear being better than other peoples in terms of that and I don’t think other peoples armor should be better than mine. Now, it’s an OPINION whether you think those number difference matter. What’s the point of adding higher stats if they don’t matter, or at least give an advantage?

But there more to it there must be a reason for 5 to be greater then 4. You can simply say something is more then the other but if there no reason for it so what? What is the point of it being greater when it comes to a real world application.
We KNOW for a fact that you can get every even in the game done with only 4 gear (but the one and the 5 > 4 logic has nothing to do with the fact of getting high level fractal). If you can prove this wrong then your views are right but can you?

The game I used to play had dailies. It got to the point that was all I did, logged in, did some of the numerous daily stuff. Then logged out. I get what you are saying, it changes the focus of the game somewhat if you are a task oriented person or if you want the reward from the daily.

However, I like the dailies as they are. I’m using them to level my current alt.

Dailies are just lazy/poor game design. Instead of creating worthwhile content for people to do everyday they came up with these menial tasks for people to do.

Jski.6180:

ScottBroChill.3254:

Um, no. The numbers are higher on ascended gear than exotics. That’s true. I don’t want my gear being better than other peoples in terms of that and I don’t think other peoples armor should be better than mine. Now, it’s an OPINION whether you think those number difference matter. What’s the point of adding higher stats if they don’t matter, or at least give an advantage?

But there more to it there must be a reason for 5 to be greater then 4. You can simply say something is more then the other but if there no reason for it so what? What is the point of it being greater when it comes to a real world application.
We KNOW for a fact that you can get every even in the game done with only 4 gear (but the one and the 5 > 4 logic has nothing to do with the fact of getting high level fractal). If you can prove this wrong then your views are right but can you?

Well, an armor value of 5 is greater than an armor value of 4. the armor value of 5 will reduce more damage than an armor value of 4, increasing survivability. These are simple numbers used to understand the principles of logic. I provided an example why a higher armor rating is better than a lower one. Your only argument is that you can do content without it, but it doesn’t make both armors the same. They aren’t the same and one is better than the other. In this case, the higher value is better than the lower. Your argument is that you don’t feel the need for it, so no one should. This isn’t a very good basis for an argument.

Darth Llama.9217:

Dailies are for people that play causally and are happy getting the stuff and a slower but more casual pace. If you’re dead set on that Ascended Item, you’ll grind Fractals until you get it. If you’re not chomping at the bit to get it right away, you’ll get it through dailies when it’s convenient for you. No one is being forced to do anything.

I can’t say I agree. The Dailies are for the relatively hardcore. I’m a casual player with a full time job and other interests. Because of this I don’t want to play every day. In fact, it is truly insane to have something in place that carrots people into playing every single day. Games should only have this as a result due to the game truly being awesome, not because you lose out on rewards otherwise.

I experience a pull towards logging in every day to do the Dailies because I want the laurels to buy not just Ascended gear (doing Fractals is much more time consuming and as far as I know you can’t even get all Ascended gear with just doing Fractals), but also miniatures and eventually the most expensive item, the cat tonic. I’d love to get those things and I’m perfectly content with it taking a long time to get those things; but it is only taking a long time because of the Dailies. My point here is, is it wrong of me to want those things? I should not want those things and just be glad? Or can’t Anet think of other ways to get exactly the same things, that is more kind to those who don’t want to log in every day?

Let’s say I only want to play in the weekend; which is a fairly reasonable thing to desire for busy people. That means I can only get 2/7 laurels of that week, so I will take 3.5 times as long to get what I want compared to someone who logs in every day. If I want an Ascended piece of 35 laurels that will not take me 35 days to get, but 122.5 days instead (leaving out the Monthlies for now).

tl;dr: It is not wrong of me to want certain things in the game, hell, those items are there for that very reason. If alternative methods can be devised (say tokens that can be found throughout the world, without limitation (let the hardcore gamers get what they want quickly)) then that would be better.

ScottBroChill.3254:

Jski.6180:

ScottBroChill.3254:

Um, no. The numbers are higher on ascended gear than exotics. That’s true. I don’t want my gear being better than other peoples in terms of that and I don’t think other peoples armor should be better than mine. Now, it’s an OPINION whether you think those number difference matter. What’s the point of adding higher stats if they don’t matter, or at least give an advantage?

But there more to it there must be a reason for 5 to be greater then 4. You can simply say something is more then the other but if there no reason for it so what? What is the point of it being greater when it comes to a real world application.
We KNOW for a fact that you can get every even in the game done with only 4 gear (but the one and the 5 > 4 logic has nothing to do with the fact of getting high level fractal). If you can prove this wrong then your views are right but can you?

Well, an armor value of 5 is greater than an armor value of 4. the armor value of 5 will reduce more damage than an armor value of 4, increasing survivability. These are simple numbers used to understand the principles of logic. I provided an example why a higher armor rating is better than a lower one. Your only argument is that you can do content without it, but it doesn’t make both armors the same. They aren’t the same and one is better than the other. In this case, the higher value is better than the lower. Your argument is that you don’t feel the need for it, so no one should. This isn’t a very good basis for an argument.

IF your trinkets gave you armor then i guess your view is right but they do not they only give blunt stats that are only marginally better. YOU have yet to provided any data where you NEED ascended level gear for events. Therefor you proven nothing other then the fact that one number is smaller then the other witch means nothing to the argument at hand.

Jski.6180:

ScottBroChill.3254:

Jski.6180:

ScottBroChill.3254:

Um, no. The numbers are higher on ascended gear than exotics. That’s true. I don’t want my gear being better than other peoples in terms of that and I don’t think other peoples armor should be better than mine. Now, it’s an OPINION whether you think those number difference matter. What’s the point of adding higher stats if they don’t matter, or at least give an advantage?

But there more to it there must be a reason for 5 to be greater then 4. You can simply say something is more then the other but if there no reason for it so what? What is the point of it being greater when it comes to a real world application.
We KNOW for a fact that you can get every even in the game done with only 4 gear (but the one and the 5 > 4 logic has nothing to do with the fact of getting high level fractal). If you can prove this wrong then your views are right but can you?

Well, an armor value of 5 is greater than an armor value of 4. the armor value of 5 will reduce more damage than an armor value of 4, increasing survivability. These are simple numbers used to understand the principles of logic. I provided an example why a higher armor rating is better than a lower one. Your only argument is that you can do content without it, but it doesn’t make both armors the same. They aren’t the same and one is better than the other. In this case, the higher value is better than the lower. Your argument is that you don’t feel the need for it, so no one should. This isn’t a very good basis for an argument.

IF your trinkets gave you armor then i guess your view is right but they do not they only give blunt stats that are only marginally better. YOU have yet to provided any data where you NEED ascended level gear for events. Therefor you proven nothing other then the fact that one number is smaller then the other witch means nothing to the argument at hand.

I never said you need it, seriously, quit saying I’m saying things that I’m not. I’m saying it gives you that fraction of an advantage. This is a numbers game. Damage, stats, survivability and all of that is based off of numbers. the better the numbers, the better the chances for success no matter how small they be. I have proven my point again and again. It’s similar to why significant figures are important in chemistry, physics, and everything else that uses math. They seem small, but are very important to the end result. Now, I don’t know any of the mathematics behind all the damage calculations and stat calculations, but can you sit there and tell me that different values are equal?

We best stop discussing this thought, seeing it has nothing to do with the actual topic of this thread.

Jski.6180:

ScottBroChill.3254:

Um, no. The numbers are higher on ascended gear than exotics. That’s true. I don’t want my gear being better than other peoples in terms of that and I don’t think other peoples armor should be better than mine. Now, it’s an OPINION whether you think those number difference matter. What’s the point of adding higher stats if they don’t matter, or at least give an advantage?

But there more to it there must be a reason for 5 to be greater then 4. You can simply say something is more then the other but if there no reason for it so what? What is the point of it being greater when it comes to a real world application.
We KNOW for a fact that you can get every even in the game done with only 4 gear (but the one and the 5 > 4 logic has nothing to do with the fact of getting high level fractal). If you can prove this wrong then your views are right but can you?

I can’t “prove” it wrong, but I can make an argument against it. In golf people play with a handicap. The better you are, the higher your handicap to even things out. Because some people want to be challenged.

So if you find the combat easy already, getting that extra point is only going to make it easier, but easier isn’t always better. Some people in real like will challenge themselves by doing things the hard way. Climbing a mountain without oxygen is more dangerous and harder than climbing one with oxygen, but there are people who do it.

Having you ever heard someone say I can beat that guy with one hand behind my back? Why do people do one-handed push-ups when they have two hands.

In a game where the content isn’t that overwhelmingly hard to begin with, I can’t imagine why someone would feel better stats automatically will make the game better.

Vayne.8563:

Causes CERTAIN players to feel like they have to. Not all players. For one thing, certain players enjoy having that direction. For another thing, certain players don’t care. If you’re the type of person that feels you have to get them, then I feel sympathy for your plight. But they can’t design a game just for one type of player.

Making them weekly wouldn’t be a solution for a lot of players, because some players want something to orient them every day. You can’t please everyone.

As dailies go, these are about as easy as they get.

I dare to bet more people feel obliged to do the Dailies than there are people who would otherwise miss them because they can’t figure out what to do in the game. The people who want to play every day are probably very adequate in coming up with reasons to play, and therefore things to do in the game.

What must be considered is alternatives. It’s easy to do something besides Dailies that does not force you to log in every day and still provides you with plenty of goals to strive for.

Shifty.5187:

Vayne.8563:

Causes CERTAIN players to feel like they have to. Not all players. For one thing, certain players enjoy having that direction. For another thing, certain players don’t care. If you’re the type of person that feels you have to get them, then I feel sympathy for your plight. But they can’t design a game just for one type of player.

Making them weekly wouldn’t be a solution for a lot of players, because some players want something to orient them every day. You can’t please everyone.

As dailies go, these are about as easy as they get.

I dare to bet more people feel obliged to do the Dailies than there are people who would otherwise miss them because they can’t figure out what to do in the game. The people who want to play every day are probably very adequate in coming up with reasons to play, and therefore things to do in the game.

What must be considered is alternatives. It’s easy to do something besides Dailies that does not force you to log in every day and still provides you with plenty of goals to strive for.

I agree with what you’re saying. There are more people who feel obliged to do dailies than those who would otherwise miss them. But here’s another question.

Are there more people who feel obliged to do them that MIND doing them when combined with the number of people who feel they need something to tell them what to do.

Most games have a breadcrumb trail that tells you how to play them and what to do next. Guild Wars 2…not so much, particularly at max level. So for the people who need a bit of help and there are plenty, there’s things like dailies and monthlies. Because some people need something to work for.

Some people don’t, but they still like having that option, like me. I not only don’t mind the dailies but I like them. I don’t need the direction, but again, I find it’s an extra reward for stuff I’m likely to be doing anyway.

The question is, by percentage, how many people really object to what has to be the easiest dailies of any MMO? I’m think even though most people feel they should do the dailies, most people don’t dislike them.

Emosewa.9731:

Running events is not work…it’s fun when I’m in the game. Feeling like there is a pull to log in every day for 30 mins, an hour, whatever…even when I don’t really want to…is “LIKE” a job.

Its like a job you can choose not to turn up to whenever you want and you won’t get fired. I’m sorry you have the certain personality that feels like you have to get everything that is offered to you from a game and its taking 4 hours of your day to achieve it (you’re doing it wrong btw if your that slow at it). 45mins should be more than enough.

I think perhaps you need some help/advice on how to speed up the way you complete your dailies because you must be doing something wrong.

This daily system is the best I’ve come across, they reward you for logging in each day and keeping the game world alive. You can choose how you want to complete the dailies, not the same repetitive task over and over again. You should check out the WoW forums and see the pain they are going through. We have it 100 times better here.

Vayne.8563:

Jski.6180:

ScottBroChill.3254:

Um, no. The numbers are higher on ascended gear than exotics. That’s true. I don’t want my gear being better than other peoples in terms of that and I don’t think other peoples armor should be better than mine. Now, it’s an OPINION whether you think those number difference matter. What’s the point of adding higher stats if they don’t matter, or at least give an advantage?

But there more to it there must be a reason for 5 to be greater then 4. You can simply say something is more then the other but if there no reason for it so what? What is the point of it being greater when it comes to a real world application.
We KNOW for a fact that you can get every even in the game done with only 4 gear (but the one and the 5 > 4 logic has nothing to do with the fact of getting high level fractal). If you can prove this wrong then your views are right but can you?

I can’t “prove” it wrong, but I can make an argument against it. In golf people play with a handicap. The better you are, the higher your handicap to even things out. Because some people want to be challenged.

So if you find the combat easy already, getting that extra point is only going to make it easier, but easier isn’t always better. Some people in real like will challenge themselves by doing things the hard way. Climbing a mountain without oxygen is more dangerous and harder than climbing one with oxygen, but there are people who do it.

Having you ever heard someone say I can beat that guy with one hand behind my back? Why do people do one-handed push-ups when they have two hands.

In a game where the content isn’t that overwhelmingly hard to begin with, I can’t imagine why someone would feel better stats automatically will make the game better.

You can’t make the fact that some people decide to challenge themselves a basis for everyone. And in real life no one is equal either, everything is skill based. There aren’t numbers for stats in real life, but numbers for stats in achievements. What about that new olympic swimsuit that allowed Michael Phelps to beat so many records? Unless you had the specific suit, you were at a disadvantage. They banned the suit because in the olympic games it created an advantage that had nothing to do with skill. Give people the same easily acquirable tools, and then skill determines the rest.

ScottBroChill.3254:

Vayne.8563:

Jski.6180:

ScottBroChill.3254:

Um, no. The numbers are higher on ascended gear than exotics. That’s true. I don’t want my gear being better than other peoples in terms of that and I don’t think other peoples armor should be better than mine. Now, it’s an OPINION whether you think those number difference matter. What’s the point of adding higher stats if they don’t matter, or at least give an advantage?

But there more to it there must be a reason for 5 to be greater then 4. You can simply say something is more then the other but if there no reason for it so what? What is the point of it being greater when it comes to a real world application.
We KNOW for a fact that you can get every even in the game done with only 4 gear (but the one and the 5 > 4 logic has nothing to do with the fact of getting high level fractal). If you can prove this wrong then your views are right but can you?

I can’t “prove” it wrong, but I can make an argument against it. In golf people play with a handicap. The better you are, the higher your handicap to even things out. Because some people want to be challenged.

So if you find the combat easy already, getting that extra point is only going to make it easier, but easier isn’t always better. Some people in real like will challenge themselves by doing things the hard way. Climbing a mountain without oxygen is more dangerous and harder than climbing one with oxygen, but there are people who do it.

Having you ever heard someone say I can beat that guy with one hand behind my back? Why do people do one-handed push-ups when they have two hands.

In a game where the content isn’t that overwhelmingly hard to begin with, I can’t imagine why someone would feel better stats automatically will make the game better.

You can’t make the fact that some people decide to challenge themselves a basis for everyone. And in real life no one is equal either, everything is skill based. There aren’t numbers for stats in real life, but numbers for stats in achievements. What about that new olympic swimsuit that allowed Michael Phelps to beat so many records? Unless you had the specific suit, you were at a disadvantage. They banned the suit because in the olympic games it created an advantage that had nothing to do with skill. Give people the same easily acquirable tools, and then skill determines the rest.

I didn’t make it a fact. I didn’t try to apply it to everyone. I simply offered another point of view which works for a percentage of people. You’re saying that doing something with an advantage is always better than doing it without. I was offering examples of how that’s not always true for every person.

There are stats in real life btw. I was in sales for most of my adult life and trust me, there are stats in real life. I simply don’t see how having an extra +1 is always an advantage.. On the surface it is, but if it doesn’t increase my enjoyment of the game it’s meaningless. And if it can decrease my enjoyment of the game by making content even easier than it already is, well then it’s a detriment.

You asked for something that is contrary to what you’re saying and I provided it…nothing more.

Vayne.8563:

The question is, by percentage, how many people really object to what has to be the easiest dailies of any MMO? I’m think even though most people feel they should do the dailies, most people don’t dislike them.

I see your point and yes, that is a function of the Dailies; I just think it is not necessary in the least. After hitting 80 there’s still exploration, PvP, WvW, Ascended gear, Fractals, achievements, etc. to get. If you are not inclined to pursue these other areas of the game, and you need something explicit such as Dailies to guide people there, then I think that’s an indication of failed game design.

If you want people to participate in a certain area of the game, make it fun. If you want people to log into the game, make it fun. Nothing else is needed.

Thobek.1730:

45mins should be more than enough.

Still too much. That’s sometimes the max. I want to play at a given day.

This daily system is the best I’ve come across, they reward you for logging in each day and keeping the game world alive.

I thought the game itself was supposed to be the reward, the fun gameplay and all that; not the fact that you would otherwise lose out on relatively rare (as they are time-gated) rewards.

Shifty.5187:

Vayne.8563:

The question is, by percentage, how many people really object to what has to be the easiest dailies of any MMO? I’m think even though most people feel they should do the dailies, most people don’t dislike them.

I see your point and yes, that is a function of the Dailies; I just think it is not necessary in the least. After hitting 80 there’s still exploration, PvP, WvW, Ascended gear, Fractals, achievements, etc. to get. If you are not inclined to pursue these other areas of the game, and you need something explicit such as Dailies to guide people there, then I think that’s an indication of failed game design.

If you want people to participate in a certain area of the game, make it fun. If you want people to log into the game, make it fun. Nothing else is needed.

You’re assuming most people are self-starters. Most people are anything but, unfortunately.

In the beginning, they tested this game with just dynamic events. No hearts. No direction. So this dev is watching someone play, and they run right past a burning building. And the dev asks, why did you run past that building. And the test player said, I didn’t have a quest to go in there.

People have gotten so used to MMOs telling them what to do that they can’t function without it. You may not believe me, but it doesn’t make it less true. For me, Guild Wars 2 leads you around by the nose too much as it is, so I turned off my map markers. I like the game much better that way.

But for most people, all they’re really looking for is busy work. That’s why games like Farmville on Facebook are so popular.

Thobek.1730:

This daily system is the best I’ve come across, they reward you for logging in each day and keeping the game world alive. You can choose how you want to complete the dailies, not the same repetitive task over and over again. You should check out the WoW forums and see the pain they are going through. We have it 100 times better here.

GW1 dailies were MUCH better. They rewarded you more for hard things. More for taking handicaps. They were very specific and unless you had already completed the game at 100%, they had a great chance to be something you never did.

GW1 dailies converted to GW2 would be like :
- Go do this specific instance story path. Bonuses if you do it with an handicap.
- Go kill a specific champion. Some of those were instances end bosses. Bonuses if you do it with an handicap.
- Go vanquish a map. Basically, you had to play in hard mode and clear a whole map of all hostile life. Those were very rewarding in money and reputation points which you had to grind too for various reasons. Doing the daily at the same time gives you extra rewards.

Also, you could just login, talk to the NPC and collect the daily missions without doing them today in case you lacked time. You could save up to 3 dailies of each type for later that way.

GW2 dailies hold 0 comparison in the level of interest they provide. They are unfun as possible except the WvW component. For those that like PvP. They are a pure mindless busywork to keep us playing.

Hardcore players have no problem completing dailies.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4HJqUx4bM4E/UWLBoZk8B5I/AAAAAAAABXc/cc8MfHlGwzI/w497-h373/fight%2Bthe%2Bboss.jpg

Enough said.

Vayne.8563:

Jski.6180:

ScottBroChill.3254:

Um, no. The numbers are higher on ascended gear than exotics. That’s true. I don’t want my gear being better than other peoples in terms of that and I don’t think other peoples armor should be better than mine. Now, it’s an OPINION whether you think those number difference matter. What’s the point of adding higher stats if they don’t matter, or at least give an advantage?

But there more to it there must be a reason for 5 to be greater then 4. You can simply say something is more then the other but if there no reason for it so what? What is the point of it being greater when it comes to a real world application.
We KNOW for a fact that you can get every even in the game done with only 4 gear (but the one and the 5 > 4 logic has nothing to do with the fact of getting high level fractal). If you can prove this wrong then your views are right but can you?

I can’t “prove” it wrong, but I can make an argument against it. In golf people play with a handicap. The better you are, the higher your handicap to even things out. Because some people want to be challenged.

So if you find the combat easy already, getting that extra point is only going to make it easier, but easier isn’t always better. Some people in real like will challenge themselves by doing things the hard way. Climbing a mountain without oxygen is more dangerous and harder than climbing one with oxygen, but there are people who do it.

Having you ever heard someone say I can beat that guy with one hand behind my back? Why do people do one-handed push-ups when they have two hands.

In a game where the content isn’t that overwhelmingly hard to begin with, I can’t imagine why someone would feel better stats automatically will make the game better.

AND the question is the person with out the handicap can they still play a game of golf? That what we are getting at can you play this game with out Ascended items yes or no?

stof.9341:

Thobek.1730:

This daily system is the best I’ve come across, they reward you for logging in each day and keeping the game world alive. You can choose how you want to complete the dailies, not the same repetitive task over and over again. You should check out the WoW forums and see the pain they are going through. We have it 100 times better here.

GW1 dailies were MUCH better. They rewarded you more for hard things. More for taking handicaps. They were very specific and unless you had already completed the game at 100%, they had a great chance to be something you never did.

GW1 dailies converted to GW2 would be like :
- Go do this specific instance story path. Bonuses if you do it with an handicap.
- Go kill a specific champion. Some of those were instances end bosses. Bonuses if you do it with an handicap.
- Go vanquish a map. Basically, you had to play in hard mode and clear a whole map of all hostile life. Those were very rewarding in money and reputation points which you had to grind too for various reasons. Doing the daily at the same time gives you extra rewards.

GW2 dailies hold 0 comparison in the level of interest they provide. They are unfun as possible except the WvW component. For those that like PvP. They are a pure mindless busywork to keep us playing.

Your chances of completing a Guild Wars 1 daily without trying at all were pretty small. You had to go get the mission, first of all, and it had to be the mission up that day (or the vanquish).

In Guild Wars 2, there’s a relatively decent chance to complete dailies without even trying. It’s only busy work if you “try” to do them. Finishng them off after playing usually only takes a few minutes.

They serve completely different purposes at a different stage in the game’s life. Guild Wars 1 dailies were added when the game was 5 years old and most people had done everything. They gave you encouragement to revisit places you’d not done for a while for additional reward.

Guild Wars 2 dailies are here to serve a different purpose. They’re there to get people into different areas of the game…and it works. You’ll see far more people in lower level areas doing these things than you used to.

Comparing a daily that was created for one purpose five years after the game came out, with a daily that serves a different purpose for a relatively new game is probably not a fair comparison.

CorruptedSave.2570:

I get my dailies just by playing the game the way I want to.

You typically have 25 aquatic kills in a day or interrupt however many times……….

The idea that dailies are something you get from just playing the game is false, you actually have to go out of your way to complete at least part of it. It may not take long but you wont just get it purely from playing the game. Having said that I prefer the GW2 dailies to WoW or swtor.

Monthlies are different, I got my monthly already from just playing the game and without going out of my way to complete anything.