Guild Wars 2

Locce.8405:

They are not by your definition. For others they are an important part of just that, if only for the fact that some professions profit hugely from them up to the point that they would not be half as fun without them. And being able to play with 100% of my usual fun is a very integral part of what I would call “Play How I Want”.
See, that is exactly why it is important to talk about stuff in a specific non-generalising way.

In that case, skills are also inherent to “playing how I want”, but since I started, the skill system requiring X amount of points in order to unlock skills, with more points for “higher” skills has hindered that, which means I’ve never been able to “Play how I want”.

So… how is “playing how you want” gone if it never existed?

I have to disagree with the OP on the NPE system, I actually think it’s great, and in fact you do not have to follow it if you don’t want to. For PVE if you’re that bad that you actually wanna 5 man a world boss, there’s something wrong with you considering that they buffed every boss. Before the NPE I spent 30 minutes trying to find the last point of interest on a map, nothing has changed about the way you attain your skills using skill points, nothing. Personal story season 1 is still a must-do regardless of the character you make, and season 2 should be optional if you don’t care. If you’re experiencing lag in a megaserver, it’s a sign that you need to upgrade something about your computer, and in spite of that, megaserver has helped a lot of the people in servers that couldn’t complete a world event or had very empty maps. Your complaint about dailies is really annoying because if you have trouble doing your daily, you have serious issues, in fact it’s even easier now because you only need 3! Your statement about WvW is just silly because you can still recruit people from your server by simply adding the name of the server your guild is in on the recruitment post. And I don’t know what planet you live in, but you can still talk about WvW and still find people interested in the subject matter. To conclude this, I give your post this rating: you should see a therapist.

Ayrilana.1396:

kuittaa.7360:

Ayrilana.1396:

“I want to get a legendary by just farming Queensdale. Anet will not allow me to do this. How dare they not let me play how I want.”

But getting legendary by just farming Queensdale is possible. Might take a while though.

“But I want it now!”
“I should not have to grind to get what I want!”

The point being that certain players pigeon-hole themselves to only certain content and then are upset when they are not rewarded like those that are willing to experience all content.

How does “experiencing it all” improve your chances? The almighty RNGods have spoken and said you’re just as likely to get Dusk from a Queensdale centaur as you are from TA P3.

There’s no congruence with your own statements.

Cuddy.6247:

Ayrilana.1396:

kuittaa.7360:

Ayrilana.1396:

“I want to get a legendary by just farming Queensdale. Anet will not allow me to do this. How dare they not let me play how I want.”

But getting legendary by just farming Queensdale is possible. Might take a while though.

“But I want it now!”
“I should not have to grind to get what I want!”

The point being that certain players pigeon-hole themselves to only certain content and then are upset when they are not rewarded like those that are willing to experience all content.

How does “experiencing it all” improve your chances? The almighty RNGods have spoken and said you’re just as likely to get Dusk from a Queensdale centaur as you are from TA P3.

There’s no congruence with your own statements.

The Queensdale example was just an example in that post. The subsequent post you see above was not referencing that example.

Lishtenbird.2814:

WORLD BOSSES

Before:

• Open an online timer for your server, group with like-minded players and do events that you want when you want. Feel yourself as a hero who willingly saves Tyria from daily threats! Feel how the world is living and changing because of you, coordinate with people and announce the next boss you gonna beat!
• Beat a world boss with some 3-5 people next to you at low hours, and feel great because it was challenging and fun! Or do not beat it and understand that your efforts were not enough and you should get better.

Now:

• After the Megaservers improvement, put a list of times for world bosses next to your PC and stop doing whatever you were doing offline to join the boss you want to play. Feel like you’re doing a scheduled task at your job in the office.
• Always be accompanied by a megazerg, tag and spam “111” to win. No need to know the encounter, you won’t see anything because of particle effects and lags.

This really bothers me the most. Not the megaserver itself, but the scheduled world boss events. Dynamic events, one of the biggest strengths in guild wars 2… Gone.
I know many people that do these world event’s, one after another, every day. I can’t do that anymore, it really feels like a scheduled task at the office.

Stumbling upon those events by accident was really cool as a new player…

It’s gone? I log in, I do what I want, I log out.

. . . how is it gone?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

It’s gone? I log in, I do what I want, I log out.

. . . how is it gone?

Because you don’t get the rewards like how you want.

Ayrilana.1396:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

It’s gone? I log in, I do what I want, I log out.

. . . how is it gone?

Because you don’t get the rewards like how you want.

You mean you need to get a reward in a specific way that you want?

Lukyromero.6780:

Ayrilana.1396:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

It’s gone? I log in, I do what I want, I log out.

. . . how is it gone?

Because you don’t get the rewards like how you want.

You mean you need to get a reward in a specific way that you want?

Exactly!

Ayrilana.1396:

Lukyromero.6780:

Ayrilana.1396:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

It’s gone? I log in, I do what I want, I log out.

. . . how is it gone?

Because you don’t get the rewards like how you want.

You mean you need to get a reward in a specific way that you want?

Exactly!

That sounds stupid.

Ayrilana.1396:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

It’s gone? I log in, I do what I want, I log out.

. . . how is it gone?

Because you don’t get the rewards like how you want.

I never get the rewards how I want, I got over that playing Monster Hunter a long time ago

. . . fricking Heavenly Lao-Shan Scales . . .

pdavis.8031:

munkiman.3068:

When i logged in yesterday to check out the changes i wasn’t really all that impressed. This game continues to dumb itself down, i did a lot of talking to people and they mostly said, if another game came out similar to this one, they wouldn’t bother. The game is heading into a facebook farmville.

All i see them doing these days is getting dedicated players riled up, but they don’t leave, since, well, lets face it, there simply isn’t anything better in the mmorpg world. But i do see most of my friends playing something else over even logging in.

I think the idea of rewards is completely lost on them now. They basically throw out rewards like a river flows water, practically begging people to just log in, but not really addressing core issues why people don’t even want to do that much. I’d spill out all the feedback again, but it’s literally pointless. I tend to agree with most of the OP.

Just a few things. It would be awesome for the game to go the direction farmville. $600,000,000.00 annual income and over 252,000,000 players. Just sayin…
(http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-businessmen/companies/zynga-net-worth/)

You say they throw out rewards. Part of that has been asked time and time again by the community. (At least on the forums). Every second day is another thread of how content needs to be more rewarding, how the current reward structures are way off balance, and how doing X content needs to give more and better rewards. The problem is though, what do they give as rewards? More gold? More loot? Better loot? What defines “better loot” when much of the player base already has Ascended, and almost everyone has exotic? You’ve already reached the top tiers of gear available, add in any more then it become verticle progression. Even now there are tons of people who are upset with Ascended, adding more would be a terrible idea.

So what do they do? The answer the call and provide even more rewards because thats what the forum community is crying for. And what does the community do? “There STILL not enough rewards in the game! I have to log in and get rewarded, if I decide to play the game I get rewarded again! This is crap! We need more rewards!!! GG Anet!!”

Edit: I am not sure when those figues were posted, but a more recent look at their revenue and income can be seen here: http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/AMDA-KX1KB/3737240017x0x792615/A7764C7F-0DF6-4160-890D-5D0F05EB060D/Zynga%20Q3'14%20Earings%20Slides.pdf

In short, Zynga is actually not doing terribly and still maintains a large player base.

I wasn’t trying to make a comparison, i’m sure a lot of people love farmville. I was speaking in that they continue to dumb down the game. Dumb is prolly not a good word though, more like simplify. All the while not address some of the core reasons people have issue with the game. Basically, the improvement, to me, is not really improving. It doesn’t make me want to play the game, sure maybe log in once a day, but not much more than that (talking this current update).

The core issues are still there and have been “mostly” since release. We have events that don’t work, many of them the unpopular ones that very few do. We have them flip-flopping on the daily mechanic, along with adding the same stuff people continue to complain about, like more RNG. Looking back when dailies were more strict, people complained, so they loosened them, now they went back to making them more strict again, the mind boggles.

Many still have issues with the camera and have since release. We still have skills and traits that are either buggy or practically useless. Animations getting removed, particle effects that are out of control, story steps missing, the list goes on.

Beside the new trait and skill system, I don’t really understand your complain. Do you knw how painful it is to do world bosses on a low pop server? Checking the site and waiting hours after hours just to wait another server open the temple for you must be your idea of fun.

The reason anet made changes on ps is certainly to prevent some ppl from abusing the personal story to make easy bl key. The only ppl who are affected by this are those who did bl key farm, and they didnt even complain abt it. and you know you can turn off that event pointer if you don’t like it right?

Abt the new daily system, have you actually tried to get 10 ap before the patch? You had to do wvw, pvp, and pve to get the max ap. Now you can stick to pve or whatever you want and get 10ap.

One day you cry abt the game doesn’t give you enough reward, the next day you cry abt the game give you more reward. Seriously

BlueBoy.1236:

One day you cry abt the game doesn’t give you enough reward, the next day you cry abt the game give you more reward. Seriously

Its not about getting more or less of something, its about HOW you go about getting the reward. If you can’t see that you’re being intentionally obtuse or you have a low IQ.

Old Dailies:
Anet: here’s a piece of cheese!
Player: cool. how do I get the cheese?
Anet: play how you want. it’ll more or less comes organically through play!
Player:noice!

New Dailies:
Anet: here’s even more pieces of cheese!
Player: ok, whats the catch?
Anet: play exactly as we want, you’ll have to jump through XYZ hoops!
Player: huh?
Fanbois: more cheese!

America.9437:

BlueBoy.1236:

One day you cry abt the game doesn’t give you enough reward, the next day you cry abt the game give you more reward. Seriously

Its not about getting more or less of something, its about HOW you go about getting the reward. If you can’t see that you’re being intentionally obtuse or you have a low IQ.

Old Dailies:
Anet: here’s a piece of cheese!
Player: cool. how do I get the cheese?
Anet: play how you want. it’ll more or less comes organically through play!
Player:noice!

New Dailies:
Anet: here’s even more pieces of cheese!
Player: ok, whats the catch?
Anet: play exactly as we want, you’ll have to jump through XYZ hoops!
Player: huh?
Fanbois: more cheese!

Or heres another way to look at it:

New Dailies:
Anet: Here’s even more pieces of cheese!!

Player: Ok, whats the catch?

Anet: Continue to do what you were doing! We gave you some nice pieces of cheese just for logging in!! But wait thats not all! If you want to get some extra special cheese then here is a list of things to do, just do 3 of them!

Player: But thats out of my way, and I don’t like those things…

Anet: Thats ok, there are lots more stuff you can do to get those extra special pieces of cheese! Plus it gives you a chance to try something new! Now go have fun!

Player: I don’t wanna…

Fanbois: oooo more cheese, extra special cheese, as well as more things to do!! Awesome!

Haters: Anet sucks! I don’t like it, change it back!

(It kind of works both ways)

Ayrilana.1396:

Cuddy.6247:

Ayrilana.1396:

kuittaa.7360:

Ayrilana.1396:

“I want to get a legendary by just farming Queensdale. Anet will not allow me to do this. How dare they not let me play how I want.”

But getting legendary by just farming Queensdale is possible. Might take a while though.

“But I want it now!”
“I should not have to grind to get what I want!”

The point being that certain players pigeon-hole themselves to only certain content and then are upset when they are not rewarded like those that are willing to experience all content.

How does “experiencing it all” improve your chances? The almighty RNGods have spoken and said you’re just as likely to get Dusk from a Queensdale centaur as you are from TA P3.

There’s no congruence with your own statements.

The Queensdale example was just an example in that post. The subsequent post you see above was not referencing that example.

Same application, no different premise.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I don’t see Devon’s statement as contradictory to “play how you want” though. Of course they want people playing all aspects of the game, thus why the offer ‘optional rewards’ as incentive to play those other aspects (as his statement goes on to say, but you thoroughly ignore). The keyword is optional, you don’t have to do it, unless you want those shinies. And you know what, that’s perfectly fine. You can choose to not do it because that’s not your type of gaming. Not having that shiny is not going to set you back because you made that choice.

I wasn’t ignoring anything.

It’s very clear from the context of his post and the conversation. “Play how you want” was clearly presented at the beginning as “Hey, you like WvW, feel free to spend all your time there and get all the best goodies as if you were a hard core dungeon runner” or whatever other part of the game. The whole point of “Play how you want” was that you we weren’t supposed to feel like we had to do parts of the game we don’t like playing to get the rewards.

Technically, it’s true. But Devon admitted what was already obvious, reward structures were being designed with the idea of drawing people into all parts of the game. That, by it’s very nature, is a change from “Play how you want”.

Good post. +1.
/15 chars

pdavis.8031:

Or heres another way to look at it:

New Dailies:
Anet: Here’s even more pieces of cheese!!

Player: Ok, whats the catch?

Anet: Continue to do what you were doing! We gave you some nice pieces of cheese just for logging in!! But wait thats not all! If you want to get some extra special cheese then here is a list of things to do, just do 3 of them!

Player: But thats out of my way, and I don’t like those things…

Anet: Thats ok, there are lots more stuff you can do to get those extra special pieces of cheese! Plus it gives you a chance to try something new! Now go have fun!

Player: I don’t wanna…

Fanbois: oooo more cheese, extra special cheese, as well as more things to do!! Awesome!

Haters: Anet sucks! I don’t like it, change it back!

(It kind of works both ways)

You forgot that part:

Player: What about those 5 special pieces of cheese I loved which I got for just playing the game? And the sauce?

Anet: Oh, they’re now 10!

Player: Can I still get them for just playing the game? Or at least half?

Anet: They’re now 10 and only 10! Oh, sorry, you should go and jump through the XYZ hoops! Did we mention that they’re now 10?

Player: Give me back my 5 pieces of cheese for just playing the game!

Fanbois: Why are you so ungrateful? Didn’t you hear they’re now 10?!

Cuddy.6247:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cuddy.6247:

Ayrilana.1396:

kuittaa.7360:

Ayrilana.1396:

“I want to get a legendary by just farming Queensdale. Anet will not allow me to do this. How dare they not let me play how I want.”

But getting legendary by just farming Queensdale is possible. Might take a while though.

“But I want it now!”
“I should not have to grind to get what I want!”

The point being that certain players pigeon-hole themselves to only certain content and then are upset when they are not rewarded like those that are willing to experience all content.

How does “experiencing it all” improve your chances? The almighty RNGods have spoken and said you’re just as likely to get Dusk from a Queensdale centaur as you are from TA P3.

There’s no congruence with your own statements.

The Queensdale example was just an example in that post. The subsequent post you see above was not referencing that example.

Same application, no different premise.

Not really.

Ayrilana.1396:

kuittaa.7360:

Ayrilana.1396:

“I want to get a legendary by just farming Queensdale. Anet will not allow me to do this. How dare they not let me play how I want.”

But getting legendary by just farming Queensdale is possible. Might take a while though.

“But I want it now!”
“I should not have to grind to get what I want!”

The point being that certain players pigeon-hole themselves to only certain content and then are upset when they are not rewarded like those that are willing to experience all content.

Seriously what is up with you people who take “I want choice” and twist it into “I want everything handed to me just for logging on”. It’s dishonest. You know that’s not what people are saying so stop trying to make it seem like they are.

Lothirieth.3408:

Ayrilana.1396:

kuittaa.7360:

Ayrilana.1396:

“I want to get a legendary by just farming Queensdale. Anet will not allow me to do this. How dare they not let me play how I want.”

But getting legendary by just farming Queensdale is possible. Might take a while though.

“But I want it now!”
“I should not have to grind to get what I want!”

The point being that certain players pigeon-hole themselves to only certain content and then are upset when they are not rewarded like those that are willing to experience all content.

Seriously what is up with you people who take “I want choice” and twist it into “I want everything handed to me just for logging on”. It’s dishonest. You know that’s not what people are saying so stop trying to make it seem like they are.

Please read my post again. I bolded the part you missed. There are 12 daily avhuevement options and people only have to do 3. The people complaining about the lack of choices are for the most part the group who focus solely on PvE achievements only and flat out refuse to do any other type. They’re the ones limiting their choices.

Ayrilana.1396:

Lothirieth.3408:

Ayrilana.1396:

kuittaa.7360:

Ayrilana.1396:

“I want to get a legendary by just farming Queensdale. Anet will not allow me to do this. How dare they not let me play how I want.”

But getting legendary by just farming Queensdale is possible. Might take a while though.

“But I want it now!”
“I should not have to grind to get what I want!”

The point being that certain players pigeon-hole themselves to only certain content and then are upset when they are not rewarded like those that are willing to experience all content.

Seriously what is up with you people who take “I want choice” and twist it into “I want everything handed to me just for logging on”. It’s dishonest. You know that’s not what people are saying so stop trying to make it seem like they are.

Please read my post again. I bolded the part you missed. There are 12 daily avhuevement options and people only have to do 3. The people complaining about the lack of choices are for the most part the group who focus solely on PvE achievements only and flat out refuse to do any other type. They’re the ones limiting their choices.

I might agree with this assessment if the game itself hadn’t changed to be more restrictive.

See, what they’re actually complaining about is that previously, there were more options, and now there are fewer.

Why is there this constant need to take stuff away? Nobody is saying, “Hey, hand me a precursor” or “I shouldn’t have to grind for a precursor!” they’re saying, “I got handed a precursor for over two years and now that’s not happening anymore, and why is that?” No, this is not a literal statement. Nobody got handed a precursor. I’m just trying to explain it as clearly and unambiguously as possible. And I’m not sure why I’m bothering, because people will still straw man this argument into something it’s not.

Reason for edit: Emphasis and bolding.

America.9437:

BlueBoy.1236:

One day you cry abt the game doesn’t give you enough reward, the next day you cry abt the game give you more reward. Seriously

Its not about getting more or less of something, its about HOW you go about getting the reward. If you can’t see that you’re being intentionally obtuse or you have a low IQ.

Yes please tell me again how you got your 10 ap before the patch. Oh wait you had to jump into pve, pvp and wvw all together. Now pve players dont have to deal with the wvw zerg, and wvw players dont have to deal with the boring pve maps. Maybe you should have tried to do those 10ap achievements prepatch before making this complaint. The only complain i have is probably how anet force a specific class to do the achievement thingy.

and ofc ppl forget the rest of my argument and take one sarcastic sentence into all seriousness just to justify their complains.

so true! now I’m so worried about their feature patch. stop ‘improving’ game play, anet only make it worse.

Guhracie.3419:

Ayrilana.1396:

Lothirieth.3408:

Ayrilana.1396:

kuittaa.7360:

Ayrilana.1396:

“I want to get a legendary by just farming Queensdale. Anet will not allow me to do this. How dare they not let me play how I want.”

But getting legendary by just farming Queensdale is possible. Might take a while though.

“But I want it now!”
“I should not have to grind to get what I want!”

The point being that certain players pigeon-hole themselves to only certain content and then are upset when they are not rewarded like those that are willing to experience all content.

Seriously what is up with you people who take “I want choice” and twist it into “I want everything handed to me just for logging on”. It’s dishonest. You know that’s not what people are saying so stop trying to make it seem like they are.

Please read my post again. I bolded the part you missed. There are 12 daily avhuevement options and people only have to do 3. The people complaining about the lack of choices are for the most part the group who focus solely on PvE achievements only and flat out refuse to do any other type. They’re the ones limiting their choices.

I might agree with this assessment if the game itself hadn’t changed to be more restrictive. See, what they’re actually complaining about is that previously, there were more options, and now there are fewer. Why is there this constant need to take stuff away? Nobody is saying, “Hey, hand me a precursor” or “I shouldn’t have to grind for a precursor!” they’re saying, “I got handed a precursor for over two years and now that’s not happening anymore, and why is that?” No, this is not a literal statement. Nobody got handed a precursor. I’m just trying to explain it as clearly and unambiguously as possible. And I’m not sure why I’m bothering, because people will still straw man this argument into something it’s not.

Except they moved the rewards from the daily completion chest to the login reward system leaving only the AP which was them lumped as a daily reward by doing just 3 achievements instead of 5. Nothing was really taken away unless you wanted a checklist to make you feel like you accomplished something but then you don’t need the game to create one for you.

I’m not going to get into the precursor although people have actually they shouldn’t have to grind for them and that they should be widely available.

Ayrilana.1396:

Guhracie.3419:

Ayrilana.1396:

Lothirieth.3408:

Ayrilana.1396:

kuittaa.7360:

Ayrilana.1396:

“I want to get a legendary by just farming Queensdale. Anet will not allow me to do this. How dare they not let me play how I want.”

But getting legendary by just farming Queensdale is possible. Might take a while though.

“But I want it now!”
“I should not have to grind to get what I want!”

The point being that certain players pigeon-hole themselves to only certain content and then are upset when they are not rewarded like those that are willing to experience all content.

Seriously what is up with you people who take “I want choice” and twist it into “I want everything handed to me just for logging on”. It’s dishonest. You know that’s not what people are saying so stop trying to make it seem like they are.

Please read my post again. I bolded the part you missed. There are 12 daily avhuevement options and people only have to do 3. The people complaining about the lack of choices are for the most part the group who focus solely on PvE achievements only and flat out refuse to do any other type. They’re the ones limiting their choices.

I might agree with this assessment if the game itself hadn’t changed to be more restrictive. See, what they’re actually complaining about is that previously, there were more options, and now there are fewer. Why is there this constant need to take stuff away? Nobody is saying, “Hey, hand me a precursor” or “I shouldn’t have to grind for a precursor!” they’re saying, “I got handed a precursor for over two years and now that’s not happening anymore, and why is that?” No, this is not a literal statement. Nobody got handed a precursor. I’m just trying to explain it as clearly and unambiguously as possible. And I’m not sure why I’m bothering, because people will still straw man this argument into something it’s not.

Except they moved the rewards from the daily completion chest to the login reward system leaving only the AP which was them lumped as a daily reward by doing just 3 achievements instead of 5. Nothing was really taken away unless you wanted a checklist to make you feel like you accomplished something but then you don’t need the game to create one for you.

I’m not going to get into the precursor although people have actually they shouldn’t have to grind for them and that they should be widely available.

You are changing the argument. I’m not talking about rewards. I’m talking about everything. I’m talking about choice.

Also, am I misunderstanding you here? You’re saying that the daily system isn’t something that should be engaging to me as a player? That is some terribly shoddy game design, if that’s the end result.

Lishtenbird.2814:

pdavis.8031:

Or heres another way to look at it:

New Dailies:
Anet: Here’s even more pieces of cheese!!

Player: Ok, whats the catch?

Anet: Continue to do what you were doing! We gave you some nice pieces of cheese just for logging in!! But wait thats not all! If you want to get some extra special cheese then here is a list of things to do, just do 3 of them!

Player: But thats out of my way, and I don’t like those things…

Anet: Thats ok, there are lots more stuff you can do to get those extra special pieces of cheese! Plus it gives you a chance to try something new! Now go have fun!

Player: I don’t wanna…

Fanbois: oooo more cheese, extra special cheese, as well as more things to do!! Awesome!

Haters: Anet sucks! I don’t like it, change it back!

(It kind of works both ways)

You forgot that part:

Player: What about those 5 special pieces of cheese I loved which I got for just playing the game? And the sauce?

Anet: Oh, they’re now 10!

Player: Can I still get them for just playing the game? Or at least half?

Anet: They’re now 10 and only 10! Oh, sorry, you should go and jump through the XYZ hoops! Did we mention that they’re now 10?

Player: Give me back my 5 pieces of cheese for just playing the game!

Fanbois: Why are you so ungrateful? Didn’t you hear they’re now 10?!

We can go back and forth on this all day, whether in the same format or not. (Personally that format would get old QUICK, so I’m going to stop there :P)

My point was, that there are different ways to look at the same thing. While you, and others, look at it as being limited and forced to do something to get AP. Many others look at the same thing and see an easier and more direct method to get more AP. It’s really just a matter of perception. But which is wrong and which is right? Both sides bring up some good points, both for and against. It’s not “fanboism” to look at it and see the good qualities, and the positive side. And it’s not “hateraid” to look at just the negative. While this is a discussion, one needs to look at both sides and make a judgement from there.

I can see how some would feel pressured, or forced to do certain things, but I by no means agree thats the case. So following your example, I’ll make a list of the Pros and Cons of the new daily system.

Pros:
3 out of 12 objectives are needed to gain 10 AP. (Previously 10 of 10)
Provides more incentive to explore, try out different game modes and improve your gaming experience.
No longer needed to gain Mystic Coins or Laurals.
Completely optional and provide no other reward other than AP.
Less of a “grind” to gain 10 AP, and no pressure to complete daily activities.
Can easily be done regardless of preferred game mode.

Cons:
Causes players to experience parts of the game they may be unfamiliar/not enjoy. (i.e getting out of comfort zone.)
AP hunters need to be more deliberate when getting dailies.

Thats about all I can think of at the moment. Please feel free to add to the list, but I believe those cover most of the arguments against this change. Thanks!

Well said! I want to play the way I want to play not the way someone wants me to play. I have been with Guild Wars from the beginning and I love this game. I dont know how much longer I can play the game either. What sucks is that I have blown real cash in the gem store. More and more it seems like a waste.

Gibson.4036:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I don’t see Devon’s statement as contradictory to “play how you want” though. Of course they want people playing all aspects of the game, thus why the offer ‘optional rewards’ as incentive to play those other aspects (as his statement goes on to say, but you thoroughly ignore). The keyword is optional, you don’t have to do it, unless you want those shinies. And you know what, that’s perfectly fine. You can choose to not do it because that’s not your type of gaming. Not having that shiny is not going to set you back because you made that choice.

I wasn’t ignoring anything.

It’s very clear from the context of his post and the conversation. “Play how you want” was clearly presented at the beginning as “Hey, you like WvW, feel free to spend all your time there and get all the best goodies as if you were a hard core dungeon runner” or whatever other part of the game. The whole point of “Play how you want” was that you we weren’t supposed to feel like we had to do parts of the game we don’t like playing to get the rewards.

Technically, it’s true. But Devon admitted what was already obvious, reward structures were being designed with the idea of drawing people into all parts of the game. That, by it’s very nature, is a change from “Play how you want”.

This has how it’s always been though. Every game I’ve ever played has this to at least some extent.

Missing from your list, pdavis;

Pros:
Equal representation in all modes of the game.

Cons:
Removal of choice in how to accomplish the dailies.

It’s just… seriously. Why are you defending the design choice to diminish the options in completing the daily? Yes, they’ve expanded the other game mode options, and that’s grand. I highly approve. But what made it necessary to be at the cost of pve dailies? Why not give everyone’s mode 6 or 8 choices? What would that possibly harm?

Guhracie.3419:

You are changing the argument. I’m not talking about rewards. I’m talking about everything. I’m talking about choice.

Except you are talking about rewards.

What’s the point in doing the dailies? Rewards. If you don’t care about the rewards, then it doesn’t matter whether you have to complete 3, 10, or 200 dailies to get 10 AP. It doesn’t matter whether you get them for logging in, killing 50 things, or killing 5 things while wearing a pink-dyed coat and striped pants.

You have the choice whether or not to do them. If it’s not about rewards, then you can choose not to.

You’ve never had the freedom to do anything you want and get all the same rewards for it. Get over it.

Guhracie.3419:

Ayrilana.1396:

Guhracie.3419:

Ayrilana.1396:

Lothirieth.3408:

Ayrilana.1396:

kuittaa.7360:

Ayrilana.1396:

“I want to get a legendary by just farming Queensdale. Anet will not allow me to do this. How dare they not let me play how I want.”

But getting legendary by just farming Queensdale is possible. Might take a while though.

“But I want it now!”
“I should not have to grind to get what I want!”

The point being that certain players pigeon-hole themselves to only certain content and then are upset when they are not rewarded like those that are willing to experience all content.

Seriously what is up with you people who take “I want choice” and twist it into “I want everything handed to me just for logging on”. It’s dishonest. You know that’s not what people are saying so stop trying to make it seem like they are.

Please read my post again. I bolded the part you missed. There are 12 daily avhuevement options and people only have to do 3. The people complaining about the lack of choices are for the most part the group who focus solely on PvE achievements only and flat out refuse to do any other type. They’re the ones limiting their choices.

I might agree with this assessment if the game itself hadn’t changed to be more restrictive. See, what they’re actually complaining about is that previously, there were more options, and now there are fewer. Why is there this constant need to take stuff away? Nobody is saying, “Hey, hand me a precursor” or “I shouldn’t have to grind for a precursor!” they’re saying, “I got handed a precursor for over two years and now that’s not happening anymore, and why is that?” No, this is not a literal statement. Nobody got handed a precursor. I’m just trying to explain it as clearly and unambiguously as possible. And I’m not sure why I’m bothering, because people will still straw man this argument into something it’s not.

Except they moved the rewards from the daily completion chest to the login reward system leaving only the AP which was them lumped as a daily reward by doing just 3 achievements instead of 5. Nothing was really taken away unless you wanted a checklist to make you feel like you accomplished something but then you don’t need the game to create one for you.

I’m not going to get into the precursor although people have actually they shouldn’t have to grind for them and that they should be widely available.

You are changing the argument. I’m not talking about rewards. I’m talking about everything. I’m talking about choice.

Also, am I misunderstanding you here? You’re saying that the daily system isn’t something that should be engaging to me as a player? That is some terribly shoddy game design, if that’s the end result.

The intent of the daily system was to get players to experience other areas of the game. Why did people do the dailies? For the rewards or for the accomplishment? If it’s for the rewards, they’ve been moved. If it’s for the accomplishment, you don’t really need the came to track that for you. This goes to my question that I continually ask which is why people really do the daily. With the rewards gone, why would it matter if there are less PvE choices?

For me, playing as I want included being able to actually have a fair fight against Tequatl, and since the launch of Megaservers I have been able to actually beat him. Once a day, even! It’s crazy, my dream has come true. Playing how I want!

Before: SAB

After: SAB is too fantastical for a fantasy world. It must be eliminated!

Ayrilana.1396:

Guhracie.3419:

Ayrilana.1396:

Guhracie.3419:

Ayrilana.1396:

Lothirieth.3408:

Ayrilana.1396:

kuittaa.7360:

Ayrilana.1396:

“I want to get a legendary by just farming Queensdale. Anet will not allow me to do this. How dare they not let me play how I want.”

But getting legendary by just farming Queensdale is possible. Might take a while though.

“But I want it now!”
“I should not have to grind to get what I want!”

The point being that certain players pigeon-hole themselves to only certain content and then are upset when they are not rewarded like those that are willing to experience all content.

Seriously what is up with you people who take “I want choice” and twist it into “I want everything handed to me just for logging on”. It’s dishonest. You know that’s not what people are saying so stop trying to make it seem like they are.

Please read my post again. I bolded the part you missed. There are 12 daily avhuevement options and people only have to do 3. The people complaining about the lack of choices are for the most part the group who focus solely on PvE achievements only and flat out refuse to do any other type. They’re the ones limiting their choices.

I might agree with this assessment if the game itself hadn’t changed to be more restrictive. See, what they’re actually complaining about is that previously, there were more options, and now there are fewer. Why is there this constant need to take stuff away? Nobody is saying, “Hey, hand me a precursor” or “I shouldn’t have to grind for a precursor!” they’re saying, “I got handed a precursor for over two years and now that’s not happening anymore, and why is that?” No, this is not a literal statement. Nobody got handed a precursor. I’m just trying to explain it as clearly and unambiguously as possible. And I’m not sure why I’m bothering, because people will still straw man this argument into something it’s not.

Except they moved the rewards from the daily completion chest to the login reward system leaving only the AP which was them lumped as a daily reward by doing just 3 achievements instead of 5. Nothing was really taken away unless you wanted a checklist to make you feel like you accomplished something but then you don’t need the game to create one for you.

I’m not going to get into the precursor although people have actually they shouldn’t have to grind for them and that they should be widely available.

You are changing the argument. I’m not talking about rewards. I’m talking about everything. I’m talking about choice.

Also, am I misunderstanding you here? You’re saying that the daily system isn’t something that should be engaging to me as a player? That is some terribly shoddy game design, if that’s the end result.

The intent of the daily system was to get players to experience other areas of the game. Why did people do the dailies? For the rewards or for the accomplishment? If it’s for the rewards, they’ve been moved. If it’s for the accomplishment, you don’t really need the came to track that for you. This goes to my question that I continually ask which is why people really do the daily. With the rewards gone, why would it matter if there are less PvE choices?

In fact, why play the game at all?

Okay, but seriously. Your argument is that the change is fine because now there’s literally no reason (rewards or accomplishment- unless there’s another reason you didn’t list) for anyone to do the dailies? I hope anet is reading this thread.

I hate it when I go to run a dungeon but then an ANet GM assumes manual control of my computer and makes me play PvP (and sabotages my team!). +10 OP could not agree more.

Crysto.7089:

I hate it when I go to run a dungeon but then an ANet GM assumes manual control of my computer and makes me play PvP (and sabotages my team!). +10 OP could not agree more.

Well. To be fair they’re making you play PvP as a Male Charr on a Thief with Healing Stats and Sub-optimal Traiting. So.. yah ..we wanna be fair when we criticize.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

I think you missed the point. One step forward two steps back.

After reading the OP’s post and Vayne’s response, I suggest that you are the one missing the point.

“White Knight” is being used as a derogatory against people who have aee enjoying the changes, which is the lowest form of argument. If you disagree with Vayne, you are welcome to contribute meaningful discourse to support your counter claim.

I am not 100% on board with every change made to the game, but I don’t expect that I should be. To blanket out this many claims against the evolution of the game really makes me think that the game must still be amazing compared to competing offerings, for people who find so much wrong to still invest large amounts of time in the game.

Guhracie.3419:

Ayrilana.1396:

Guhracie.3419:

Ayrilana.1396:

Guhracie.3419:

Ayrilana.1396:

Lothirieth.3408:

Ayrilana.1396:

kuittaa.7360:

Ayrilana.1396:

“I want to get a legendary by just farming Queensdale. Anet will not allow me to do this. How dare they not let me play how I want.”

But getting legendary by just farming Queensdale is possible. Might take a while though.

“But I want it now!”
“I should not have to grind to get what I want!”

The point being that certain players pigeon-hole themselves to only certain content and then are upset when they are not rewarded like those that are willing to experience all content.

Seriously what is up with you people who take “I want choice” and twist it into “I want everything handed to me just for logging on”. It’s dishonest. You know that’s not what people are saying so stop trying to make it seem like they are.

Please read my post again. I bolded the part you missed. There are 12 daily avhuevement options and people only have to do 3. The people complaining about the lack of choices are for the most part the group who focus solely on PvE achievements only and flat out refuse to do any other type. They’re the ones limiting their choices.

I might agree with this assessment if the game itself hadn’t changed to be more restrictive. See, what they’re actually complaining about is that previously, there were more options, and now there are fewer. Why is there this constant need to take stuff away? Nobody is saying, “Hey, hand me a precursor” or “I shouldn’t have to grind for a precursor!” they’re saying, “I got handed a precursor for over two years and now that’s not happening anymore, and why is that?” No, this is not a literal statement. Nobody got handed a precursor. I’m just trying to explain it as clearly and unambiguously as possible. And I’m not sure why I’m bothering, because people will still straw man this argument into something it’s not.

Except they moved the rewards from the daily completion chest to the login reward system leaving only the AP which was them lumped as a daily reward by doing just 3 achievements instead of 5. Nothing was really taken away unless you wanted a checklist to make you feel like you accomplished something but then you don’t need the game to create one for you.

I’m not going to get into the precursor although people have actually they shouldn’t have to grind for them and that they should be widely available.

You are changing the argument. I’m not talking about rewards. I’m talking about everything. I’m talking about choice.

Also, am I misunderstanding you here? You’re saying that the daily system isn’t something that should be engaging to me as a player? That is some terribly shoddy game design, if that’s the end result.

The intent of the daily system was to get players to experience other areas of the game. Why did people do the dailies? For the rewards or for the accomplishment? If it’s for the rewards, they’ve been moved. If it’s for the accomplishment, you don’t really need the came to track that for you. This goes to my question that I continually ask which is why people really do the daily. With the rewards gone, why would it matter if there are less PvE choices?

In fact, why play the game at all?

Okay, but seriously. Your argument is that the change is fine because now there’s literally no reason (rewards or accomplishment- unless there’s another reason you didn’t list) for anyone to do the dailies? I hope anet is reading this thread.

If they actually want the AP, the individual rewards, or a reason to experience other content.

100% agree with the op.

There is no interpretation of what they said when they talked about ‘playing how you want’. Of course there will be things you can’t do. The game doesn’t have mounts and so you can travel while on one. It had everything to do with playing a way that the game allowed you to. Yes there will be an optimal way, but what they talked about was that the way you chose to play would be at least viable. If the way you want to play doesn’t get you to the same destination as the next guy, then it is not viable. They made this perfectly clear. The difference was the optimal way just meant you got there sooner rather than later.

From almost day one there has been elements that has gone against this concept. Legendary being the main one where you can not obtain one by playing how you want. You have to play all parts of the game to get all the gifts needed to make one. So instead of working to change the game to fit their philosophy, they change it in the opposite directly.

Also, regarding this “opinion” bandwagon. Saying something is your “opinion” does exempt you from being wrong and pointing out that what someone says is ‘just their opinion’ doesn’t stop what they’re saying from being right.

Lishtenbird.2814:

UNLOCKING TRAITS

Before:

• Start leveling and get new stuff to make your build better (with 3 tiny payments) straight away. Do what you want and enjoy the aspects of the game you like! It doesn’t matter if it’s your 1st or 64th character, you simply play!

Now:

• After the Trait improvement, grind all over the world (including WvW) with each and every character doing the same stuff over and over again. Or pay tons of money with gold and skillpoints (which you have to collect and which have gold value) to unlock it for each and every character.

So much this. I really hate this change to the traits system.

Deamhan.9538:

There is no interpretation of what they said when they talked about ‘playing how you want’. Of course there will be things you can’t do. The game doesn’t have mounts and so you can travel while on one. It had everything to do with playing a way that the game allowed you to. Yes there will be an optimal way, but what they talked about was that the way you chose to play would be at least viable. If the way you want to play doesn’t get you to the same destination as the next guy, then it is not viable. They made this perfectly clear. The difference was the optimal way just meant you got there sooner rather than later.

I cannot get dungeon skins by playing WvW. I cannot get the Balthazar backpack from playing PvE. I think it’s been pretty obvious for a long time that you cannot get all the rewards ever from doing only what you want to do.

Now, bear in mind that the quote in the OP quite clearly says “The most powerful rewards”. Well, I can get ascended gear by only playing WvW (and crafting of course). I can also get a legendary with enough farming and/or lucky drops. Those are, factually, the most powerful rewards.

You’re right. There is no interpretation. No matter how I want to play, I can still acquire the most powerful rewards, just like the quote says. Clearly they’re still sticking true to that.

Also, regarding this “opinion” bandwagon. Saying something is your “opinion” does exempt you from being wrong and pointing out that what someone says is ‘just their opinion’ doesn’t stop what they’re saying from being right.

Actually, by definition an opinion cannot be either right or wrong.

Guhracie.3419:

Missing from your list, pdavis;

Pros:
Equal representation in all modes of the game.

Cons:
Removal of choice in how to accomplish the dailies.

It’s just… seriously. Why are you defending the design choice to diminish the options in completing the daily? Yes, they’ve expanded the other game mode options, and that’s grand. I highly approve. But what made it necessary to be at the cost of pve dailies? Why not give everyone’s mode 6 or 8 choices? What would that possibly harm?

You do make a good point. However, having equal choices for each game mode makes it so WvWers, or PvPers don’t also feel they need to go to PvE to do their dailies. They still get to “Play how they want”. I would be ok with more options per game mode, but as it stands I feel it’s a good balance.

I pretty much have not much to say about it as you do make several valid points. Though I should point this out:

Exploration:

Yes you can follow the arrow. Or if you don’t want to, turn it off. It’s right there on the options. The only convenience this arrow has for me is that it at least helps me get to the vista or PoI I want as opposed to having to alt-tab to a youtube guide.

Personal Story:

While it does restrict control over how players want to pace themselves in playing the Personal Story immediately, personally I didn’t mind it because I always make a habit of leveling up every 10 levels or so anyway. There is the matter of the botched up story from Chapter 7 and 8 though that still needs fixing.

Still, even with the restrictions imposed, I still feel like playing the way I want to. I can choose to have my hand held or I can just do the stuff myself.

Lishtenbird, the list in your OP is more or less why I haven’t played since the NPE hit. I check in from time to time in hopes that some of the worst offenses have been changed for the better, but the space between disappointing check-ins has been gradually widening. As someone whose main interest was leveling new characters, I find the game more or less ruined now. Joke was on me, sadly, since I dropped money on a new char slot right before the patch.

People want balance in a game, which would basically be one class with only two weapons, a range and a melee, and basically only one set of top gear.
People want homes, and to show them off in the world
People want loot and items that are all important in some way
People want to explore as far as they want and find challenges on their own.

Huh…hold on a sec, let me log into Minecraft….

ANET is always worried when players are achieving something they initially thought would be hard to achieve, so they start nerfing many things.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

This has how it’s always been though. Every game I’ve ever played has this to at least some extent.

Oh, sure. It’s just that “play how you want” was part of the “MMO for people who don’t like MMOs” line they pitched to us in the beginning.

Gibson.4036:

Oh, sure. It’s just that “play how you want” was part of the “MMO for people who don’t like MMOs” line they pitched to us in the beginning.

People have complained about the saying “play how you want” since day 1 because people are being too specific. You’ve always had to play within the rules of the game.

That saying was a comparison to other MMOs. Traditionally, you could either quest or grind to level and then do PvP or raids. If you wanted something in a traditional MMO, you generally had to do the same thing as everyone else. In GW2, you can basically do whatever you want to level and then do whatever you want after. Everything has multiple paths you could take. The new dailies force you into specific things, but it still allows you to play how you want because you’re given the options of PvE, PvP or WvW.