Guild Wars 2

Fixing forum bug

Lothirieth.3408:

Ayrilana.1396:

The purpose of the daily system is to get people out into other areas of the game.

I hadn’t realised you were an ANet dev.

Players are not being forced to do daily achievements

If players want the AP, then yes, they must do three dailies. That is a requirement to satisfy a desire. Before, said desire could be satisfied in a much broader manner. people are expressing that they wish for these broad choices to return. This is called constructive criticism and something a game developer should welcome.

Also, please don’t do the whole “well the game is optional” statement as it’s not an argument and doesn’t change the fact that the daily achievements are optional.

It is very much an argument and I’ll use it if I like. You don’t get to decide what I say, sorry. The game being an optional thing is quite the important factor as because if ANet’s taking choices away and causing the game to feel more like a chore for people to complete dailies as they used to, it could lead to people making other choices about the game, such as not playing. To tell people what they don’t need or aren’t required in your perception for their fun is entirely unhelpful.

Players can still play the game how they want like before. I’m starting to think that players do not understand what “play how they want” really means and instead think it means “reward me how I want”.

There you go again with that argument. Trying to equate something that isn’t equal. People aren’t asking to get rewards from chatting or a precursor upon login. They’re asking to have broad dailies, to view a vista anywhere for example. It’s called a compromise. But you’d rather make people out to be worse than that as usual. It’s tiresome.

This is the problem that all the defenders of these changes have. They act like we are asking for a change that did not exist previously and then act like everyone is asking for free legendaries. We didn’t get free legendaries before so how is asking for things to go back to how they were equal to asking for free legendaries or ascended or anything else.

Many of the changes have slowly reduced choices since launch. All that many people are asking for is to once again have the choices that were taken away. We understand that arenanet want to herd us into certain areas for their metrics but all its going to do is chase players away.

They’re the typical responses that keep popping up.

-No one’s forcing you to play
-You don’t have to do them
-You people want everything for free

Complete non-arguments, but apparently they can’t come up with better.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Rampage.6489:

timmyf.1490:

Thaddeus.4891:

How GW2 does? I don’t know. We will need to compare it to other game to really know. But you can’t just assume that the game don’t keep its player base because about 50% of their player only play through the story and dungeon only once. That’s what most ppl do in most of their games.

MMOs, in general, don’t see rising populations over time. But it feels like, with the number of sales we’ve seen especially, ArenaNet is making a strong push to add more players. This is happening because ArenaNet has concluded that the game NEEDS MORE PLAYERS.

I’m not necessarily trying to make a point here, I’m just trying to remind everybody: the NPE, the new dailies, the log on rewards, the Living Story… the entire point of these things is to encourage players to keep the game installed and to jump in from time to time.

Making the game worse wont bring any new players in and will only scare away people who liked how the game was…

They seem to think that they do make a better game for new players and don’t care for the current ones.

I don’t think that’s true, it doesn’t seem to be about bringing in new players or retaining old ones. All these changes seem to be for metrics and nothing more. If you want to retain players you add new content at a decent rate. If you want to bring in new players then you add new content to have things to talk about in the press and so that the game doesn’t look stagnant. Changing things to force people in to certain areas says only one thing and that’s metrics.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

This is the problem that all the defenders of these changes have. They act like we are asking for a change that did not exist previously and then act like everyone is asking for free legendaries. We didn’t get free legendaries before so how is asking for things to go back to how they were equal to asking for free legendaries or ascended or anything else.

Many of the changes have slowly reduced choices since launch. All that many people are asking for is to once again have the choices that were taken away. We understand that arenanet want to herd us into certain areas for their metrics but all its going to do is chase players away.

Yeah, that’s not what my problem is. My problem is . . . and try to follow . . . this is exactly how the first overhaul started to Dailies way back in the olden times, before Lost Shores was ever a bad memory.

If we’re going to keep coming right back to this “we want more” thing over and over, I think Dailies now need to be re-examined for whether or not they’re doing anything positive. As it stands now, literally the only thing the Dailies are good for are a few boxes of loot and AP.

. . . both of which could just be cut out and tossed aside with a little more effort, since Login Reward has put the place to get Laurels and Coins.

Anyway, I’d try to put more effort into discussing this matter . . .

Code.8615:

They’re the typical responses that keep popping up.

-No one’s forcing you to play
-You don’t have to do them
-You people want everything for free

Complete non-arguments, but apparently they can’t come up with better.

. . . but why bother?

The thing is, people aren’t complaining because they want more
They’re complaining because they’re suddenly getting less

Code.8615:

The thing is, people aren’t complaining because they want more
They’re complaining because they’re suddenly getting less

Yeah, they are getting less. Forgive me if I tell you it’s perfectly fine that it is less.

Mystic Coins, Karma, the occasional Black Lion goods, Laurels, all that got pushed off Dailies. Now they’re in the “Login Reward”. Which is literally “log in, get stuff”. I’m okay with this. I’m surprised it took this long to implement, but I’m okay with it.

So now, again, the Dailies are only good for the 10 AP (with a cap, and people who hit the cap get nothing) and the random loot bags which are given with each one. Four days of doing them showed me the loot bags are nice and all, but not really significant.

You’re getting less choice, and getting significantly lower on the reward side of things. So yeah, I’m in the camp which replies “write it off and don’t bother” if they’re offending you. Eventually the message will get through people don’t like the system, and it’ll get Old Yeller’d like it should have had done to it before Laurels were a thing.

Code.8615:

The thing is, people aren’t complaining because they want more
They’re complaining because they’re suddenly getting less

Exactly

McSlappy.1372:

I gladly give Blizz and CCP my money each month and spend lots of time in their games because it’s fun and rewarding. With GW2 it’s more rewarding to not waste my time in game. Although the forums are entertaining to read while in fleet or riding on flight paths.

If are willing to pay 45 dollars for a reharsed 60 lvl raid + 1 new raid + 2 world bosses for the next 3 months , you are a very satisfie costumer , and you would stick to the WoW , and not wasting our time with your presence 2 years now :P

Or start farming gold , for the incoming Wildstar CREDD system ( pay game time with gold )

People are complaining because this is the internet and apparently that’s what people do on the internet.

There’s no argument to be found here other than “I want it the way it used to be/the way it never was/the way I want it.”

I’d love to hear an argument why you should receive “Achievement Points” and complete your “Daily Achievements” simply for logging on and doing Tequatl. (And let’s be honest, half of the time you’d get the full set doing Teq. Even on bad days, it was like 3/5.)

I think the dailies should be HARDER or MORE TIME CONSUMING. You want something for logging in? Fine, here’s your login rewards. You want a daily 10 achievement points? Do something for real.

You don’t pick 3/12. You do this one thing. For example:

Jan 1: Capture an enemy keep in WvW
Jan 2: Complete an Arah exporable path
Jan 3: Win three PvP matches in a row
Jan 4: Complete a level 34 Fractal

etc.

timmyf.1490:

I think the dailies should be HARDER or MORE TIME CONSUMING. You want something for logging in? Fine, here’s your login rewards. You want a daily 10 achievement points? Do something for real.

You don’t pick 3/12. You do this one thing. For example:

Jan 1: Capture an enemy keep in WvW
Jan 2: Complete an Arah exporable path
Jan 3: Win three PvP matches in a row
Jan 4: Complete a level 34 Fractal

etc.

Nah, I’d swing the door the other way.

Every month they publish a list of achievements for Daily PvE / Daily WvW / Daily PvP. Let them be specific, like “Capture a Blue Keep” for WvW. But you get a big list of them anyway, encompassing many possible specific actions.

But you get to do one each day. Pick one from the list when you log in for the first time that day period, and you select one to do. It’s now yours to complete any time until the monthly reset, but you can only pick an achievement out once a day.

There. Choice is restored and widened out even, everyone can get time to do achievements when they can instead of having to beat a clock, and the complaints will continue about how X shouldn’t be an achievement, or how capturing Stonemist is impossible . . .

timmyf.1490:

People are complaining because this is the internet and apparently that’s what people do on the internet.

Look up the meaning of “irony” when you have the time.

People are complaining because something got changed for the worse.
Nothing to do with it being easy.

Hell, with these changes you literally get rewarded for logging in.
Can’t get much easier than that.

+1

Very well written. Needs to be stickied/brought to the devs’ attention.

Essentially, they destroyed the type of game I was looking for before GW2 was released.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Nah, I’d swing the door the other way.

Every month they publish a list of achievements for Daily PvE / Daily WvW / Daily PvP. Let them be specific, like “Capture a Blue Keep” for WvW. But you get a big list of them anyway, encompassing many possible specific actions.

But you get to do one each day. Pick one from the list when you log in for the first time that day period, and you select one to do. It’s now yours to complete any time until the monthly reset, but you can only pick an achievement out once a day.

There. Choice is restored and widened out even, everyone can get time to do achievements when they can instead of having to beat a clock, and the complaints will continue about how X shouldn’t be an achievement, or how capturing Stonemist is impossible . . .

See, that would solve the vast majority of the problem already, right there.

Code.8615:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Nah, I’d swing the door the other way.

Every month they publish a list of achievements for Daily PvE / Daily WvW / Daily PvP. Let them be specific, like “Capture a Blue Keep” for WvW. But you get a big list of them anyway, encompassing many possible specific actions.

But you get to do one each day. Pick one from the list when you log in for the first time that day period, and you select one to do. It’s now yours to complete any time until the monthly reset, but you can only pick an achievement out once a day.

There. Choice is restored and widened out even, everyone can get time to do achievements when they can instead of having to beat a clock, and the complaints will continue about how X shouldn’t be an achievement, or how capturing Stonemist is impossible . . .

See, that would solve the vast majority of the problem already, right there.

You would think that . . .

. . . but I have no doubts there’s about three dozen posters about to explain why that system is terrible and I’m in need of an intern to keep me from swallowing my own tongue on accident.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Code.8615:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Nah, I’d swing the door the other way.

Every month they publish a list of achievements for Daily PvE / Daily WvW / Daily PvP. Let them be specific, like “Capture a Blue Keep” for WvW. But you get a big list of them anyway, encompassing many possible specific actions.

But you get to do one each day. Pick one from the list when you log in for the first time that day period, and you select one to do. It’s now yours to complete any time until the monthly reset, but you can only pick an achievement out once a day.

There. Choice is restored and widened out even, everyone can get time to do achievements when they can instead of having to beat a clock, and the complaints will continue about how X shouldn’t be an achievement, or how capturing Stonemist is impossible . . .

See, that would solve the vast majority of the problem already, right there.

You would think that . . .

. . . but I have no doubts there’s about three dozen posters about to explain why that system is terrible and I’m in need of an intern to keep me from swallowing my own tongue on accident.

Oh, you’ll always have those. :‘)
But they get cancelled out by the ones responding to any criticism with "You don’t have to play"

Tobias, I’d take that as an option if Daily Achievement A was only available once. When you complete it, now you get to choose from B-Z.

Otherwise, it’ll just be “time for my daily Goemm’s Lab, who’s porting?”

They said there wasn’t going to be grind to get to the fun stuff, I immediately though leveling to get to end game. Now they tried, and failed, to make leveling non-consequential. A good example would be WvW. Seen as “the fun stuff” for many, they used an up-level system so people can join in right away and not have to level up first. The problem is that the up-level system sucks, the fact you are an up-level is given to the enemy with a green arrow, and so you just become a burden to commanders.

Grind? As stated, grind is repetition. Doing that dungeon may have been a ‘challenge’ the first and maybe even the second time, but after that you know it well enough to do it without thinking. The problem is that you will not get the tokens you need by doing it just once or twice. You have to do it a couple dozen times. It become mindless repetition very quickly and that is what grinding is.

There are six pieces of armor. There are three paths to each dungeons’ explorer mode.

-Make it so enemies will hold aggro right to the end.
-Make it so some rooms/areas must be clear before the way forward is open.
-Grant enough tokens per path for two pieces of armor (make all pieces cost the same).

There, now you have to put in the time and effort to actually ‘complete’ the dungeon, you are not required to repeat the same path (removes repetition and therefore the grind), to get the set you want.

Take the acquisition of mats for crafting. When someone said “get x of item y” they were not talking about 2 – 4, instead they are talking 250+.

Go kill lizards for 250 of their hide. Oh did we forget to mention that the hides only have a 60% drop rate so you’ll have to kill more than 250?

I’d much rather spend an hour tracking/hunting down a single bear and have that leather/fur coat require just the one pelt, than spend an hour in a cave containing 10 bears just standing there and kill 300 of them (killing them as they respawn in the exact same spot).

Same amount of time and effort, just a different kind of effort. A kind that actually requires you to use your brain (tacking of the beast), and test your play (killing of the beast).

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Many of the changes have slowly reduced choices since launch. All that many people are asking for is to once again have the choices that were taken away. We understand that arenanet want to herd us into certain areas for their metrics but all its going to do is chase players away.

Hrm, yes, although dailies didn’t really. I mean all they did was free the players up even more as now they no longer even have to do specific actions like rezzing or killing to get their daily rewards, they can just do whatever (assuming they log in at all).

timmyf.1490:

Tobias, I’d take that as an option if Daily Achievement A was only available once. When you complete it, now you get to choose from B-Z.

Otherwise, it’ll just be “time for my daily Goemm’s Lab, who’s porting?”

That was what I was suggesting, yes. You have an extensive list of potential achievements, all of which are specific but there’s a LOT of them. You can only pick one up per day, but once completed it stays completed. And they only time out when the month resets.

The only trepidation I have is not knowing how many ways to get PvP achievements to fill it up so they wouldn’t have to go dipping into WvW or PvE . . . admittedly I tried the PvP once and remembered I really am terrible at it so I decided to not do it.

Just found this gem in response to another thread, but concerning “grind”

GRIND
Neither game is a grind for the casual gamer unless they decide they want to make it a grind.

GW1 The end game gear was level 20 and you could put on Runes+Sigils on your armor. Similarly in GW2 you can do this, however when GW1 came out those runes were very very expensive, 100k for Runes of superior vigor, 80k for Runes of Superior Protection.
Similarly to gw2, you can buy the best runes for a LOT of gold, or you can buy ones not so good but similar for a LOT LOT less

The difference in GW1 was that the end game gear came with different skins, Obsidian armor for a casual gamer wasn’t really something they had especially at the start. Obsidian shards and Ectos were very expensive. If you actually farmed them and didn’t buy any (a lot of people did this) I would argue this is a considerable grind.

But how is that any different to GW2? You can happily do all the content in the game (barring 50 FoTM) in full exotic gear which lets be honest costs around 20g for a full set if you buy it off the TP, even cheaper if you craft it yourself or even cheaper if you collect dungeon tokens and get the armor for that.
As for runes, Ruby orbs are 50 silver each, 3 gold and you’re good enough to do any pug instance. (or any other orb catering to your own build)
Ascended armor is only useful at level 80 content/fractals. You do NOT need it.
Legendary weapons give you 0 benefit over ascended weapons. It’s like comparing Obby armor to Elite Luxon.

GWAMM – pretty grindy.
ZTitle – pretty grindy
Sweet/Party/Drunk – I don’t think buying/collecting 10k sweet points is grindy at all
LB/ASura/Vanguard etc titles – 160k rep points (iirc)
100% map completion without Texmod?? Have fun
Capping over 300 elite skills (and needing the plat to fund all the elite skill caps 300k+)
10k Unids?
12mil Kurzick / Luxon faction? Please stop me if you don’t consider any of this to be grind.
10k locked chests?
Lucky/Unlucky titles.. you think any of these aren’t grind????
http://i.imgur.com/KCe8UYb.jpg

Edit: reduced post to highlight most relevant part.

I think we’ve reached the end of where this game can go.
- Anet disregards its player base as if it were the company mission statement.
- We have A+ Plus cooperate manipulation of the player by using Carrots on a Stick… Blow up LA, then do this whole story with the Zephyrites to say it will be fixed. Blow up the Zephyrites with expectation that is coming back. Give us Super Adventure Box. Take away Super Adventure Box, but say it will be coming back. Give us a perfectly working LS and trait system, then break the first and make the other outlandishly expensive (where it was not before). Cripple new characters. Do absolutely no new content for years in terms of dungeons . Where a new world boss is added copy and paste the same static timer based content under the veil of it being ‘dynamic’ and an ‘event’. …blah blah blah blah. It is coming to the point where we enjoy the game because it still responds the same way it used to when we press WASD and buttons 1 through 8 are still functioning. Nothing else is going on. They just employed this new person from Disney to the team, but Disney is the one that employed J. J. Abrams. Abrams butchered Star Trek and is now heading out to give rending what’s left of Star Wars apart. I wouldn’t want anything connected with Disney without a hazmat suit. Anet’s plan seems to be to push the plane into a steam spiraling nose dive gradually while informing everyone everything’s just fine because it’s gradual.

~ding~ … thread awesomeness increased to purple!!

Eirdyne.9843:

I think we’ve reached the end of where this game can go.
- Anet disregards its player base as if it were the company mission statement.
- We have A+ Plus cooperate manipulation of the player by using Carrots on a Stick… Blow up LA, then do this whole story with the Zephyrites to say it will be fixed. Blow up the Zephyrites with expectation that is coming back. Give us Super Adventure Box. Take away Super Adventure Box, but say it will be coming back. Give us a perfectly working LS and trait system, then break the first and make the other outlandishly expensive (where it was not before). Cripple new characters. Do absolutely no new content for years in terms of dungeons . Where a new world boss is added copy and paste the same static timer based content under the veil of it being ‘dynamic’ and an ‘event’. …blah blah blah blah. It is coming to the point where we enjoy the game because it still responds the same way it used to when we press WASD and buttons 1 through 8 are still functioning. Nothing else is going on. They just employed this new person from Disney to the team, but Disney is the one that employed J. J. Abrams. Abrams butchered Star Trek and is now heading out to give rending what’s left of Star Wars apart. I wouldn’t want anything connected with Disney without a hazmat suit. Anet’s plan seems to be to push the plane into a steam spiraling nose dive gradually while informing everyone everything’s just fine because it’s gradual.

I’m just going to back out of this thread slowly now.

Why is some poor, unfortunate soul trash talking Disney? I’d like them banned for stupidity, please, thanks.

Vayne.8563:

I’ve been over the quote “we don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2” again and again. Taken out of context, it means what you think it means. Taken in context it doesn’t mean that at all.

It’s talking about grinding to level because that’s what grinding traditionally means. Looking up grinding in wikipedia it’s in the first sentences. Grinding to level is what they were talking about, because when they made that video many games didn’t have enough quests to really level you and you just had to go out and kill stuff to level.
That’s why they say, in the same paragraph, "we want to change the way people view “combat”. Not gear, not loot, combat.

Grind has come to mean other things, more so every year, but back then, more people thought it meant grinding to level. What you’re talking about is farming, not grinding to a lot of old timers. The word has changed.

Try reading the whole paragraph and tell me what in it makes you think he’s talking about anything but combat.

Anyway at the time, it was repeated several times at conventions, and Anet employees explained exactly what it meant.

It isn’t what you’re saying it meant.

I’ve played MMO’s since SWG pre-CU, grinding has always been doing a repetitive task many times, think about the term grinding it’s about slowly wearing away something. Farming is grinding for a certain item, material, or points and is basically a synonym. It is not and never has been specific to level grinding, that’s why people have to say level grinding, faction grinding, honor grinding, etc. However I guess my experience in 2003 with SWG faction grinding is wrong? Or in 2005 in WoW with reputation grinding is wrong then or the HIgh Warlord/Grand Marshal grind. So if grinding meant a lot of different things by 2010, how in the world do you know what ArenaNet meant in the manifesto.

Are you joking that most mmo’s didn’t have enough quests to level when the manifesto came out? You’re talking 6 years post WoW launch. There were tons of WoW clones in that time and almost all MMO’s had enough quests to level to max. Warhammer Online came out in 2008 and had more than enough quests to hit max level. If we were talking 2000-2006 your argument might hold water, but by 2010 most AAA western MMO’s had quest based leveling to max. In fact at that point the big thing was the voiced over quests, which both SWTOR and GW2 marketed on.

The combat statement is a separate topic in the manifesto. I thought that was pretty obvious. In fact after mentioning combat the quote is this

“It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward.”

“It all gets back to” means everything mentioned before this, not just combat.

“basic design philosophy” means that’s what the ENTIRE game is based on, not just combat.

“grinding for a future fun reward” could be anything from a new item, new skin, or new content.

I honestly don’t know how you can even remotely try to defend this. It’s pretty cut and dry. They didn’t want players grinding either for levels or rewards, yet now most of the game is based purely on grinding for rewards and the content is un-fun grind content. I guess at this point you’ll want to delve into the “Is it fun?” statements Colin made, because they certainly aren’t living up to those either.

+1

Amen, and Bravo OP! It could not have been said better, I hope that this is something the devs and managers talk about when they think back to the changes they’ve made this past year.

It’s gone from an open and free feeling to a locked and scheduled feeling.

gotta love how they’ve evolved in such a short time.

The ironic thing is that the removal of “play the way you want” was because of the “confusion” it created for new players causing them to leave. For those of us who operated well under that mentality and stayed to enjoy the game got a big fat boot in the kitten , when they implemented these changes.

Kythan Myr.4719:

It’s gone from an open and free feeling to a locked and scheduled feeling.

This is brilliantly said and just what I feel but didn’t know how to word it.

I miss the game I loved so much.

Traced.3495:

Kythan Myr.4719:

It’s gone from an open and free feeling to a locked and scheduled feeling.

This is brilliantly said and just what I feel but didn’t know how to word it.

I miss the game I loved so much.

The whole situation has everything to do with their business model and the gem store.

Their gem store approach requires that players spend as much time exposed to the game as possible.
That means getting them to come back every day in order to possibly hook them on some gem store skin/commodity/upgrade.

When that becomes the strategy your goal as a company is to start making players play on your terms and not their own.

You can no longer do massive leaps and bounds of progress in this game. You have to come back the next day.

Almost everything in this game is now time gated – forcing you to do it today because if you don’t you can’t just make up for it tomorrow.

Look at World bosses – once per day kill.

Look at Wurm and Teq – awesome events that you have to do once every day. You can’t just do teq 10 times one day and then not touch it for a while. The bonus chest is where the real reward is and if you want it – well come back daily.

Look at dungeons – the good reward – again is daily gated.

Look at crafting – a lot of high-end expensive and important crafts are daily gated.

Even PVP reward track progress is daily gated.

More and more and more of the game has to be played on its terms now. You can’t simply play on your own terms anymore if you give a kitten about being efficient or are interested in progressing ( and by this i mean the monetary driven horizontal progression).

This is really where I feel the game lost a lot of its appeal, at least for me.

In GW1 I always felt I could do whatever I wanted in game, because if I wanted at one point to progress really quickly in one area I could focus on it at any time and do that.

In GW2 I can’t do that because if I neglect one area of the game the progress associated with it will be lost. I can’t make up for it.

It’s created an artificial pressure by forcing players to bow down and submit to the time gating. I feel it in my play time.

I have to first get dailies and daily crafts and possibly daily pvp out of the way before I can say : Great – that’s over with – time to actually play what I feel like.

From a business perspective I’m sure this new model is great for player retention and exposure to possible TP offers but it’s taken its toll.

Traced.3495:

Kythan Myr.4719:

It’s gone from an open and free feeling to a locked and scheduled feeling.

This is brilliantly said and just what I feel but didn’t know how to word it.

I miss the game I loved so much.

Agreed, topics like these need more attention especially in the world outside of GW2. I think it is important for the MMO world to know and realize how much has changed from their much publicized manifestos. Maybe all these changes are for the good and better and I’m just in the unhappy minority. After reading threads like these with pages of the same feelings I have, you gotta wonder if something is wrong.

Bottom line. I know that all these changes this past year were to address concerns and retain new players. I would love to ask them “How’d that work out for you?” Maybe an honest look at their numbers and they could say things are much better now. That would be positive and make these changes well worth it. Still, I’d like to know what these changes did to retain veteran players.

I am about half in agreement with OP.

I am surprised that so many people disagreed about world bosses. World bosses are a bore now. They are great encounters with10-15 people though. I would love to see map caps reduced around the time of world bosses.

Also, at the least Lion’s Arch should be on a world based server. I think this is in part why WvW is dying for smaller servers.

Buying traits: annoying for alts I agree, but I like the system. Maybe make it so that unlocking lower level traits is account wide would solve this problem.

Dailies I am half in agreement with. If they upped the number of dailies requires to four, but then added four universal achievements (dodges, kills etc.) I think a lot of the problems would be fixed. Also the four events in a map thing, whilst I appreciate what they are trying to do, is an exercise in frustration and cancels out the pleasure of getting to revisit an old map.

I agree that the Living World feels more static now, but I prefer the current system.

I totally agree about unlocking weapon skills and personal story.

I haven’t logged into the game since finishing the last chunk of the living story and I know I am not alone in that. It got to the point where I and others I knew just logged in for an hour, finished the latest living story update and then logged out till the next one. There is nothing to do anymore and with the megaserver change, the rp community I was part of scattered and was gone.

WvW was keeping me around and I fought hard in the tournaments. Still, even that has no meaning now and after a few years, even doing something I loved has grown tiresome and repetitive.

I checked up on the forums today to find most of the forums had….gone. I really cant stand the idea of the new dailies – are so few of us logging in anymore that we are to be rewarded just for doing that now?

Everything I enjoyed in this game was destroyed or neglected and it breaks my heart. How could they have done this and how can they still be doing it?

I hold out hope that this game is renewed in an expansion and that something in WvW is done so that I might fight for my server once again….if my server even exists by the time that happens. As it is, its all but gone.

Please listen to the OP as its a cry for help from so many of us, put into clear, stark words. That things could have gotten this bad is so disheartening, I can only hope that the OP’s appeal is listened to. It is now very nearly too late.

Ayrilana.1396:

Yoroiookami.3485:

Ayrilana.1396:

Yoroiookami.3485:

What can I say. I don’t believe you, when you say that you didn’t grind in the game. I consider grind as doing the same pieces of content over and over again in order to gain something.

Grinding:
- Doing the same dungeon over and over again for tokens
- Getting gold for ascended armour/getting materials for ascended armour/killing mobs for ascended armour and weapons.
- Getting x amount of geodes to craft Mawdrey and a bonus time-wall in case you actually want to craft everything yourself. (Getting punished for limiting grind)
- Queensdale, Orr, “Whatever” Train.
- Farming Black Lion Keys.
- …
Just off the top of my head.
Of course you can always pay for some of those with real life money, but otherwise you’re forced to grind, or find rich friends.
That’s grind for me. Plenty of content is locked behind it. It’s okay if you disagree.

As I had stated before, you don’t understand what they meant by no grind. I feel generous so I’ll link a few things to read/watch for you.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU1JUwPqzQY

You stated plenty of content is locked behind grind but you didn’t list a single example. Could you please provide me with one?

But I did. Ascended Armour, Dungeon Armour, crafting Mawdrey and if you’re interested in more:
- getting Legendary (and precursor)
- getting Pavilion rewards
- unlocking titles
- repeating winter activities to get wintersday rewards

With dungeons and legendaries being the least obnoxious ways of grinding, as they vary things a little. The only other way of getting some of those things is buying them for gold, which requires, in turn, to grind for gold or buy it for real money.
Unless you don’t see it as grinding. I sure as hell do.

The whole game has come to this.
Do you have enough materials to get this thing? No? Then grind for materials. You don’t want to? Do you have gold? No? Then grind for gold.

You’re missing what they were talking about. They were not talking about loot/rewards but having to grind to gain access to content.

I suppose you don’t consider rewards as content. By that logic, you must be extremely dissappointed with 50% of the updates, since that’s the only thing they’ve been adding for some time now. That and personal story.
Regardless, you are right – you don’t have to grind to unlock events(Which is I guess what you mean by conent?). So let’s ignore all the grindy bits of the game, since obviously no one cares about rewards, apparently. As long as you pay with real-life money, you can get those anyway. Essentially a paywall, but let’s not talk about that as it doesn’t really matter. Yes, I’m being sarcastic.

The entire topic is about “play how i want”, and the game simply doesn’t allow me to get the rewards I seek in the way I find enjoyable. I am forced to grind. Why don’t you understand? It’s fine if you find it enjoyable, but stop denying its existence.
I don’t expect them to make it easier for me, but to at least make it less repeateable. Is that such an extreme suggestion that it would cause you to argue with me? Who doesn’t want less repeatable content?

Yoroiookami.3485:

I suppose you don’t consider rewards as content. By that logic, you must be extremely dissappointed with 50% of the updates, since that’s the only thing they’ve been adding for some time now. That and personal story.
Regardless, you are right – you don’t have to grind to unlock events(Which is I guess what you mean by conent?). So let’s ignore all the grindy bits of the game, since obviously no one cares about rewards, apparently. As long as you pay with real-life money, you can get those anyway. Essentially a paywall, but let’s not talk about that as it doesn’t really matter. Yes, I’m being sarcastic.

The entire topic is about “play how i want”, and the game simply doesn’t allow me to get the rewards I seek in the way I find enjoyable. I am forced to grind. Why don’t you understand? It’s fine if you find it enjoyable, but stop denying its existence.
I don’t expect them to make it easier for me, but to at least make it less repeateable. Is that such an extreme suggestion that it would cause you to argue with me? Who doesn’t want less repeatable content?

It’s content in a sense but not what this is about. Content locked behind grind would be if players were required to even step into fractals. Or you have to to spend a lot of time grinding levels to hit the cap in order to do endgame. Or at prevent progress due to gear checks which require grind to get.

So you cannot get the rewards how you want? That’s essentially what a lot of people are upset about. They all play a certain way with a set routine. Maybe they do dungeons. Maybe they do world bosses. All of them want the daily to be completed while doing those so they can get the rewards. It’s as if the rewards you get from doing what it is that you’re doing isn’t good enough so here’s a cookie.

The daily would be pretty pointless if anybody could get it simply by doing whatever as it becomes just another login rewards system. How about we just remove the AP from the dailies and add it to the daily login system with everything else? You have daily achievements but all they reward are the random loot you see now.

They keep changing the things people like and don’t change the things people complain about.

retsuya.4708:

They keep changing the things people like and don’t change the things people complain about.

I dunno if I’m jaded about forum users, but I think people complain about every aspect of this game.

retsuya.4708:

They keep changing the things people like and don’t change the things people complain about.

In retort: The last batch of major ranger changes, which gave them mostly positive effects to the point people were claiming for a while they were OP.

Agreed OP and +1.

The amount of counter-intuitive decisions and game changes since release have really only served to push me away from this game. So many aspects have been changed that simply were’nt broken yet other aspects that were, and still are, screaming for fixes or changes still remain unresolved.

Core mechanics and problems within this game still need addressing and yet they change up dailies, LS, and NPE like they are doing the release players a favor.

I honestly struggle to log now, This game just isn’t fun anymore and these changes just push me further away.

Code.8615:

The thing is, people aren’t complaining because they want more
They’re complaining because they’re suddenly getting less

They’re only getting less if they choose to get less. If they put a fraction of the effort spent complaining into doing the dailies, they’d actually end up getting more.

3 dailies gets you the AP of 10 dailies previous.
You also get the bonus box rewards.
On top of the daily log-in rewards.

How is that less?

So if they treat it like a job they are all good.

k.

Your forgetting the loss of monthlies where people could do things at their own personal pace. This is just “clock in-clock out” work simulation, in a game that markets itself at a casual game-playing market.

It’s meant to be a game kitten .

fireflyry.7023:

So if they treat it like a job they are all good.

k.

Your forgetting the loss of monthlies where people could do things at their own personal pace. This is just “clock in-clock out” work simulation, in a game that markets itself at a casual game-playing market.

It’s meant to be a game kitten .

And now they can get a bunch of rewards by simply logging in, which allows them to do whatever they want at their own personal pace without having to worry about if their personal pace is going to be enough to finish a certain monthly on time!

It is a game. If you’re viewing it as a job, you’re playing it wrong.

Log in rewards are really a different topic as thats something totally new. I don’t like them, the game should make me want to log in of it’s own accord not because I get a “shinie!!”.

Outside that you missed my point. Rewarding players who log in every day over the previous system of a monthly goal done at ones own pace will put a lot of players off, as this thread clearly shows.

Analogy:

Turn up here every day at a similar time, do the same things over and over, many of which you don’t actually want to do but we make you do in order to garner reward. See you again tomorrow to do it all over again.

What does this remind you of? A game?

. . . if it’s anything like my after-school Gaming Club I did for a year in High School? Yes . . .

They always wanted to play Nuclear War. I hated playing it. I always jumped in, because it was better to play than be left out.

lol

I expect the imminent arrival of veteran D&D players at any second.RUNNN!!!!

fireflyry.7023:

lol

I expect the imminent arrival of veteran D&D players at any second.RUNNN!!!!

I should be honest, that club? Never did D&D since it was held at a Catholic school. They barely did MTG, except as a filler when two or three people were stuck outside of another game. But for the most part we found other games to play.

. . . most of them I can’t find anymore.

Notably also, D&D players could be said to approach their play groups with similar dedications to a job (and sometimes more than their job – the GM has a lot of work to do to set up a campaign or even a one-shot adventure and have it turn out well). So, really, I find it amusing to hear the derision about treating a game like a job . . .

Oh, and if you want to say video games are different? Try looking up Achievement Hunter. (Warning – mature content from about four to nine guys.) They treat games as their job. And it produces some of the outright funniest kittykat stuff I’ve seen.

Filaha.1678:

3 dailies gets you the AP of 10 dailies previous.
You also get the bonus box rewards.
On top of the daily log-in rewards.

How is that less?

It’s not, unless you ignore the fact that one has to do the dailies (for 10AP) instead of playing the game as they liked (for 5-8AP)… and – surprise! – you are conveniently ignoring that fact.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Filaha.1678:

3 dailies gets you the AP of 10 dailies previous.
You also get the bonus box rewards.
On top of the daily log-in rewards.

How is that less?

It’s not, unless you ignore the fact that one has to do the dailies (for 10AP) instead of playing the game as they liked (for 5-8AP)… and – surprise! – you are conveniently ignoring that fact.

. . . and what about those days where the other Dailies were nothing I wanted to do? But if I wanted the AP/Laurels/Coins, well, go forth and don’t spend your time doing crafting. Instead, you need to go do events. Or group events. Those did come up, and I would have to hang up doing anything else since I stink at PvP and often am on past prime time for WvW to get in on that.

So, let’s see . . . how about that situation? I know I ran into it where I was basically “errrrgh, right . . . well either Dailies or trying to earn me some Geodes . . .”

That’s a better situation than this one, where I can just ignore the Dailies since all they are are AP now?

I just came back after some time off, and a wall hitted my nose when i started my engi again..
first .. the story= need to be lvl 10
2nd.. weapons= need to get some lvl to use
3rd.. the traits= yay lvl 11, npc, “u need more exprience i can’t helpya” ok dude i will.. wait WHAT ?
so i need to grind till 30 to get my traits, and then do pve stuff to play my loved WvWvW… F M L, i bought the game bc u said i could play the way i liked, i don’t want to kill a boss to get my trait, i don’t want to see what i already saw, complete those maps over and over again…so if i want to do a 1-80wvw character i have to stick to the “notevenclosetooptions” weapon skills. with no other character customization… or spend the gold i don’t even have… or ofc spend real money, meh, wth is wrong with you, the system was fine, u had a lot of thing to touch, and screw what was already fine, i didn’t even wanted to spend time leveling to 30

i liked those game mechanics u changed anet, now it feels like i have to spend tons of hours to start “palying/enjoying” the game, even when i already put 5classes to 80 and gifted u a lot of my time

MAN IM SO DANG kittenED, I FEEL CHEATED, bigggg MEEHHHHH
guess im gonna keep roaming with my mesmer till i get bored again and quit, to hell with new things

At Filaha, while I remember enjoying your posts in the past, I’m afraid you’ve gone somewhat bonkers with the can-get-best-gear crusade, and I will be addressing the following quote in particular:

Filaha.1678:

Can get =/= will get. You can get a precursor from a random drop. This does not mean you will get a precursor from a random drop.

The statement is satisfied. You can get top gear by playing whatever game mode you want to play.

The statement is not reliant upon your personal success in acquiring it. That’s like saying that you can’t get 5,000 gold because some people haven’t.

You know very well that the statement of ‘can get the best gear by means other than crafting’ is disingenious at best, and intentionally misleading at worst.

Why? Very simple – because the original statement ‘you can get best gear by playing how you want’ essentially entails a small print along the lines of ‘but hell might freeze over before you do/but the chances are rather low/but you likely won’t.
If one wanted to be completely clear and transparent, they’d have formulated the statement more along the lines of ‘you MIGHT obtain best gear playing how you want’.
Using ‘can’ rather than ‘might’ or ‘have a chance’ makes the reader automatically think it will depend on their own ABILITY to obtain it (crafting, for example, would fall under that category), but the ‘can’ in said case is referring to pure and plain LUCK, and to such a minuscule chance at it that it is plain misleading, no matter how you want to twist and turn it. While it might not be factually incorrect on paper, it is little more than a cheap marketing move straight out of a Top Shop morning advertisment, and not something you’d expect from an AAA+ mmo.

It’s the ‘hidden small print’ manner of advertising, which is frankly one of the worst and most underhanded approaches to potential customers you can find. But I digress.

I think the point of getting “best gear” is very relative.
Do you accept Exotic gear as close enough that any difference in player skill, no matter how small, will dwarf the difference in stats?

In that case, any guild can instantly kit you out with most stat combinations at level 80. You’ll “immediately” have “best” gear.