Guild Wars 2

hu dahala mei.6034:

i was auto attacking so i was not idle. that’s how thew game is designed per the GM. had they not said that i would not have done it! i had not been on that long either.

Don’t you have to have a target selected in order to autoattack? I know my autoattack doesn’t do anything unless I have a mob targeted. How did you get the target for the autoattack to start after the mob respawns and you’re not at the keyboard?

reaper using skill 4 as auto attack requires no target.

reaper using skill 4 with greatsword requires no target

hu dahala mei.6034:

reaper using skill 4 with greatsword requires no target

You were idle because you were not moving or pressing the keys. You can test this by going into any city and putting the same skill on auto. In about an hour, you’ll be booted to the character select screen.

I saw a druid autoattacking with staff on a constant spawn in Harathi the other day. S/he didn’t respond to queries about whether they were afk, was standing in a safe spot, and just celestial sonar pinging down the spawning attackers. I figured there was no way to afk press 1 the moment the spawn appeared and felt quite comfortable reporting the bot.

I don’t recall seeing any pet, come to think of it, but I didn’t look hard for one. There were some other, active players around so I could have seen a pet and thought it belonged to them.

according to the gm memo its not required to press a key thats how auto attack works

booted is 1 thing suspended is another

Donari.5237:

I saw a druid autoattacking with staff on a constant spawn in Harathi the other day. S/he didn’t respond to queries about whether they were afk, was standing in a safe spot, and just celestial sonar pinging down the spawning attackers. I figured there was no way to afk press 1 the moment the spawn appeared and felt quite comfortable reporting the bot.

I don’t recall seeing any pet, come to think of it, but I didn’t look hard for one. There were some other, active players around so I could have seen a pet and thought it belonged to them.

You can still report AFK farmers under ‘Botting’ anyway, whether they are using a third party program or not.

so i guess doing the 9 rings game in guild wars 1 was botting!

hu dahala mei.6034:

booted is 1 thing suspended is another

The question is: were you ever booted after playing afk for too long? If not, then well, there’s something fishy about your story. Because if you’re doing something to bypass the idle timer which is to keep players who are afk from remaining on a map for too long keeping out active players, then you are obviously either botting or exploiting.

i was just playing the game

hu dahala mei.6034:

so i guess doing the 9 rings game in guild wars 1 was botting!

Guild Wars 1 didn’t have an idle timer and as I recall, 9 rings only required you to have an item in your inventory so really no comparison.

not sure how much longer i will be playing though. like i said i did the same thing we all did during the rings games in guild wars 1 during the celestial new year every year

hu dahala mei.6034:

i was just playing the game

If you were AFK and did not get booted after X amount of time like normal AFK players do, then you were either botting or exploiting.

If you were booted after X amount of time like normal AFK players do or were actively playing the game (autoattack on skill 4, but you were moving around for better placement with regards to mobs) then contact support (link at top of page) to discuss with support.

hu dahala mei.6034:

not sure how much longer i will be playing though. like i said i did the same thing we all did during the rings games in guild wars 1 during the celestial new year every year

GW1 didn’t have an idle timer.

hu dahala mei.6034:

not sure how much longer i will be playing though. like i said i did the same thing we all did during the rings games in guild wars 1 during the celestial new year every year

Fun fact: This is not Guild Wars (One). Different game, different rules.

If you truly desire to dispute the action of the CS Team, you can ‘Submit a Request’ via the ‘Support’ link above/below.

Good luck.

edit: this was in response to the OP of a previous thread who stated that they had been suspended for the use of 3rd party software.

If they claimed you were using a 3rd party program, what makes you think that your AFK farming had anything to do with your suspension?

If the stated reason was a mistake (which sometimes happens), what gave you the impression that AFK farming was ok? The quote you linked was about whether autoloot was supposed to work for pets killing foes that attacked you — ANet has said over and over and over again that it’s never okay to be able to walk away from the game (which includes watching TV and occasionally pressing a few buttons).

I’m sorry, OP, that your account was suspended, because I realize that can be frustrating. However, based on your own statement, it sounds as if there was justification for it.

penelopehannibal.8947:

Ayrilana.1396:

And now there’s another suspension to another player.

I suggest that everyone stops AFK farming now.

Yep. If everyone is looking for a clear statement on it, the suspensions are it.

Yeah again the system allows for someone to stand there and “AFK farm”.

The suspension my guess would be is a different mechanic in use.

I only reply again today because I got a guildie and a couple on map to come watch two Rangers “AFK farm”. The issue is one of them was spamming at every CD his heal… you could time it. I even talked in “say” about it with others in front of them and no response, movement and the one kept spamming his heal.

So I reported both as bots in case this is a person with two separate accounts because of what I witnessed. Now I have seen others stand there and do nothing but let pets or minions attack and not worth reporting because there was no indication of an outside mechanic being used ie program…macro…

Again…ANET has a long road ahead if the intend to fix the “AFK Farming” but I suppose as long as it is within game terms not much in that aspect I believe they will NOT do in the immediate future.

usnedward.9023:

Yeah again the system allows for someone to stand there and “AFK farm”.

The suspension my guess would be is a different mechanic in use.

I only reply again today because I got a guildie and a couple on map to come watch two Rangers “AFK farm”. The issue is one of them was spamming at every CD his heal… you could time it. I even talked in “say” about it with others in front of them and no response, movement and the one kept spamming his heal.

So I reported both as bots in case this is a person with two separate accounts because of what I witnessed. Now I have seen others stand there and do nothing but let pets or minions attack and not worth reporting because there was no indication of an outside mechanic being used ie program…macro…

Again…ANET has a long road ahead if the intend to fix the “AFK Farming” but I suppose as long as it is within game terms not much in that aspect I believe they will NOT do in the immediate future.

I report them all to be honest. It’s not up to me to determine which one is cheating and which one isn’t. I report what I suspect as cheating and walk on and go back to what I’m doing (usually in this case where I see AFK farmers, it’s when I’m At-Keyboard farming myself).

It’s not up to me to be judge of who or who isn’t botting/AFK Farming, that’s up to the GMs. I have a few of them on block and gave them nicknames of where they were AFK farming. Some are still at the places and online, others are not, which suggests to me that they are taking action on some (maybe they’re more serious cases, I dunno) but not others.

penelopehannibal.8947:

I report them all to be honest. It’s not up to me to determine which one is cheating and which one isn’t. I report what I suspect as cheating and walk on and go back to what I’m doing (usually in this case where I see AFK farmers, it’s when I’m At-Keyboard farming myself).

It’s not up to me to be judge of who or who isn’t botting/AFK Farming, that’s up to the GMs. I have a few of them on block and gave them nicknames of where they were AFK farming. Some are still at the places and online, others are not, which suggests to me that they are taking action on some (maybe they’re more serious cases, I dunno) but not others.

I understand that. I just can’t report someone standing there doing nothing as far as I can tell when they are doing what the game allows. Then again you may be right to report them all because I don’t watch them for too long and it is possible they are performing an action auto generated when I leave.

You all should stop trying to break down what these cheaters are doing into tiny subsets of actions or mechanics. Autolooting or not, Ranger or Necro, Heal on auto or not, doing it for a month or for three hours, circumventing the idle-timer or not – it does not matter.

What matters is “Does this person make his account play the game for extended periods of time without actively playing the game himself”. If the answer is yes, then all the technicalities do not matter.

The weak attempts at justifying an act that is against the rules by demanding to be told a specific rule for every little aspect of what you are doing annoy me. If you afk-farm, you break the rules. Period.

I will bring a real life analogy again, despite knowing that many people have problems grasping an analogy. Maybe it helps those who understand.

You take a screwdriver and go out at night and approach a woman, then hold the screwdriver in front of her face and say “Oh my, this is a really nice handbag you have there, I really think men should be having handbags too, would you give it to me as a present?”
Then you get arrested and in court you say “But i was only holding a screwdriver, this is not illegal, show me a law that says I may not hold a screwdriver. Then I was complimenting the woman on her handbag, it was looking so nice! Surely I cannot be judged for making a compliment?! Oh and why I was holding the screwdriver in front of her face? It is such a pretty screwdriver, I was just trying to show off”.
The judge will not bother to try to find a law that forbids you from carrying a screwdriver, complimenting a woman or walking on the street at night showing off a pretty tool. He will see the big picture and determine that you were mugging that woman, just like you were. Its the same in GW2. Do not dissect your actions into tiny bits and demand to see rules for each bit. Look at what you are doing, and if it is allowed. Afk-faming is not allowed.

Wont work because there is no official definition of what “playing the game means.”
Anet can only take action against a player if they are not playing the game as intended, and so far no explanation has been given of what playing the game as intended means.

I don’t know what you mean when you say “Won’t work”. Why would you need a clarification of what “playing the game” means? Are you seriously considering to argue that being afk while your character is logged in could be qualified as “playing the game”? That is just absurd.

There is a screenshot in this very thread showing a message that tells a player why his account was suspended/banned. Among others, one reason is “extended unattended play”. This is what afk-farming falls under. If you set your account up to play the game by itself by any means without you playing it, that is against the rules. If you are not at your pc playing the game, you are not playing the game.

There have never been complaints about having been suspended or banned for occasionally going afk when the doorbell or telephone rings, or when something important comes up. We can be pretty sure ANet does a good job in determining who is intentionally having his game played unattended and who just happens to have some mobs killed by his pets while taking a bio-break or taking a phonecall without logging out. That’s why it does not just say “unattended play” but “extended unattended play”.

mauried.5608:

Wont work because there is no official definition of what “playing the game means.”
Anet can only take action against a player if they are not playing the game as intended, and so far no explanation has been given of what playing the game as intended means.

There never will be an official definition, because any statement they can make will inevitably have loopholes. And they can take any action they please against anyone behaving in a way that they consider to be bad for the community or the game.

The statement “playing the game” is meant merely to help people have a rule of thumb that will work for most people. It’s not meant to exhaustively cover every single possible method of “playing the game” or outline every possible way to “not play the game.”

You can choose to accept this and enjoy playing the game the way that most people do. Or choose not to accept it and continue to be surprised by how ANet and other players react.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Please. Even in the thread where a Dev made a statement it came out vague. In that thread, and others, people are insisting that his first statement means that AFK farming is not only legal, but “as intended”. They ignore the second statement.

People are insisting it is legal. Word is getting around I guess, I am now seeing groups of them in Frostgorge in certain spots. Immobile for hours, heal on the cooldown timer (enemy around or not), killing and mastery looting.

Please make a CLEAR statement. Please, and not hide this in a merged thread.

“AFK” farming with macros and scripts and the like is NOT ok, afk farming as a ranger and sitting somewhere with your pet killing things as they spawn IS ok, because that is a game mechanic, + how can you not prove that person didn’t have to legitimately go afk at that time, it’d be a whole debacle if you started banning people because they go afk in the middle of a spawn area and they’re a ranger.

Xbon.9086:

[…]how can you not prove that person didn’t have to legitimately go afk at that time, it’d be a whole debacle if you started banning people because they go afk in the middle of a spawn area and they’re a ranger.

This theoretical scenario is brought up again and again and you should have read the whole thread. For example my post just 2 posts up from yours was about this topic specifically.

People do not get suspended or banned for just innocently going afk in the middle of a spawn area. They get suspended for deliberately parking themselves and afk-farm for extended periods of time (or repeatedly), and obviously ANet is able to tell the difference very well and likely also grants players the benefit of the doubt. If this was not the case, there would be complaints about being wrongfully banned after having to go afk as a ranger of necro. There are none. Go figure.

Xbon.9086:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Please. Even in the thread where a Dev made a statement it came out vague. In that thread, and others, people are insisting that his first statement means that AFK farming is not only legal, but “as intended”. They ignore the second statement.

People are insisting it is legal. Word is getting around I guess, I am now seeing groups of them in Frostgorge in certain spots. Immobile for hours, heal on the cooldown timer (enemy around or not), killing and mastery looting.

Please make a CLEAR statement. Please, and not hide this in a merged thread.

“AFK” farming with macros and scripts and the like is NOT ok, afk farming as a ranger and sitting somewhere with your pet killing things as they spawn IS ok, because that is a game mechanic, + how can you not prove that person didn’t have to legitimately go afk at that time, it’d be a whole debacle if you started banning people because they go afk in the middle of a spawn area and they’re a ranger.

Yes, it is ok so long as you do not circumvent the idle timer which would kick you after an hour.

Question for all those that are against the “afk farming” and using the phrase “not playing as intended”.

I have real life issues that prevent me from playing the most optimal way. I sometimes sit in one area of the game and let my necro pets do all the killing as I don’t have the energy or dexterity for anything else.

I am sitting in front of my screen (usually with a movie on another screen) and glancing at the game screen every 10 seconds or so. I set my auto cast button on my summon bone minions and explode them as they are summoned. The exploded minions create poison rings that will kill most anything veteran or below. I will have to occasionly heal but sometimes can go 30 min or so without hitting a button.

Would I be a target of random people coming up and reporting me?

If so why do I have to be harrassed in this way just playing a game to my best ability?

Does anyone remember that massive ban wave that happened when people exploited the Mystic Forge shortly after release? I can’t remember what the exact exploit was, but didn’t that use in-game mechanics too, and still wound up with the banning of a massive amount of accounts?

penelopehannibal.8947:

Does anyone remember that massive ban wave that happened when people exploited the Mystic Forge shortly after release? I can’t remember what the exact exploit was, but didn’t that use in-game mechanics too, and still wound up with the banning of a massive amount of accounts?

Yep.

There was also the ban a couple of years back where people found a site that could trigger an unending stream of farmable mobs. It was a guild mission site in the Charr area where you defend a spot against oncoming Charr. People were farming that site to get loot bags and all those who were doing that got suspended/banned for taking advantage of a game mechanic.

Essentially, if it’s too good to be true, it is. Don’t do it.

Syllvir.4176:

I have real life issues that prevent me from playing the most optimal way. I sometimes sit in one area of the game and let my necro pets do all the killing as I don’t have the energy or dexterity for anything else.

“Not the most optimal way” seems to be quite an understatement considering that you follow up on it by basically saying you can’t play the game at all and let it play itself.

I am sitting in front of my screen (usually with a movie on another screen) and glancing at the game screen every 10 seconds or so. I set my auto cast button on my summon bone minions and explode them as they are summoned. The exploded minions create poison rings that will kill most anything veteran or below. I will have to occasionly heal but sometimes can go 30 min or so without hitting a button.

This does not sound like fun. Actually it sounds a little unrealistic too, especially the “10 seconds or so”.

Would I be a target of random people coming up and reporting me?

Of course.

If so why do I have to be harrassed in this way just playing a game to my best ability?

Reporting someone who looks like he is afk farming is not harassing him. You won’t even notice being reported. You are being overly dramatic here and I doubt it will win you much sympathy to present yourself as a poor, harassed victim, when all that is being done to you is to report you because you look exactly like a cheater who is afk farming.
And the answer to “why” is “Because no player can know if you are looking at the screen every 10 seconds like you claim you do, or if you are afk watching that movie”.

To determine if your char is playing unattended is the job of a GM, and the reports are done to help a GM find the subjects he should check.

Syllvir.4176:

Question for all those that are against the “afk farming” and using the phrase “not playing as intended”.

I have real life issues that prevent me from playing the most optimal way. I sometimes sit in one area of the game and let my necro pets do all the killing as I don’t have the energy or dexterity for anything else.

I am sitting in front of my screen (usually with a movie on another screen) and glancing at the game screen every 10 seconds or so. I set my auto cast button on my summon bone minions and explode them as they are summoned. The exploded minions create poison rings that will kill most anything veteran or below. I will have to occasionly heal but sometimes can go 30 min or so without hitting a button.

Would I be a target of random people coming up and reporting me?

If so why do I have to be harrassed in this way just playing a game to my best ability?

I recommend you no longer do it. If you want to earn money, you can do so by gathering wood or metal nodes. No time limits, you can take a break whenever you want, and you don’t have to rely on other players being there/not being there.

Syllvir.4176:

Question for all those that are against the “afk farming” and using the phrase “not playing as intended”.

I have real life issues that prevent me from playing the most optimal way. I sometimes sit in one area of the game and let my necro pets do all the killing as I don’t have the energy or dexterity for anything else.

I am sitting in front of my screen (usually with a movie on another screen) and glancing at the game screen every 10 seconds or so. I set my auto cast button on my summon bone minions and explode them as they are summoned. The exploded minions create poison rings that will kill most anything veteran or below. I will have to occasionly heal but sometimes can go 30 min or so without hitting a button.

Would I be a target of random people coming up and reporting me?

If so why do I have to be harrassed in this way just playing a game to my best ability?

I don’t know what your “real life issues” are, but when you’re glancing at the screen ‘every 10 seconds or so,’ why not just move a little? Hit that W key for a few seconds during those ‘every 10 seconds or so.’ You’ll slowly and intentionally be scooting your way across the map; in effect playing.

If you can, maybe take it one step further and that every 30 minutes you’re focusing more on the game, port to a new map… You’ve got to be intentionally moving around and interacting with the game at least a little.

Another thing you can do is say a few things in map or guild chat every now and then… anything at all… then there’s a LOG of you being at your computer interacting with the game, even if someone does try and report you.

I report the people I see standing in the exact same spot for long periods of time. If I see someone hanging out, fine… but if I come back semi-frequently and they haven’t moved at all, that’s when I report them. If I see them move even a little, then I know they’re at their keyboard.

You may see yourself as harassed… I see you as a possible unfortunate extreme exception to the norm. Again, I don’t know what your “real life issues” are, but there’s got to be a few things you can do to help ensure you’re not punished by misunderstanding.

~EW

Edit: Actively interact with the game, however you choose to do so, and you are clearly not AFK farming. Auto-cast is not actively interacting with anything, it’s a setting and nothing more.

For those of you who claim to have urgent things that’ll pull you away from your computer semi-frequently…

option 1) Esc key -> log out to character select. This takes 3 seconds.
option 2)M key (map) -> click on ANY waypoint -> click yes. This takes 4 seconds.
option 3) I key (inventory) -> double-click on a home portal stone or similar if you own one. Takes 3 seconds.

In a non life-threatening situation, there is no reason whatsoever one of these options can’t be done. The likelihood of you being reported as afk farming is infinitesimal if you are standing under a waypoint where no mobs spawn … If you put yourself in a location where you can’t afk farm when you go afk, then you can’t be punished for afk farming.

However, if those frequent urgent things that pull you away from the game are life-threatening, then maybe consider not playing GW2 while in that environment.

~EW

For those of you who claim that the “playing while intended” is a grey area w/o definition, here’s the full original quote:

“Anything that automates game play to the point where you are able to not actually play the game as-intended (example: you can walk away from it) is considered a breach of the User Agreement.”

Automating your game play to the point you can walk away from it is the EXACT example given of what is not allowed. Are you intentionally walking away from the game with the expectation it’ll still act like you’re there to give you loot and/or experience? Then you are breaching the User Agreement. There is no grey area on this point, even if the rest of what “play(ing) the game as intended” is grey.

~EW

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Syllvir.4176:

Question for all those that are against the “afk farming” and using the phrase “not playing as intended”.

I have real life issues that prevent me from playing the most optimal way. I sometimes sit in one area of the game and let my necro pets do all the killing as I don’t have the energy or dexterity for anything else.

I am sitting in front of my screen (usually with a movie on another screen) and glancing at the game screen every 10 seconds or so. I set my auto cast button on my summon bone minions and explode them as they are summoned. The exploded minions create poison rings that will kill most anything veteran or below. I will have to occasionly heal but sometimes can go 30 min or so without hitting a button.

Would I be a target of random people coming up and reporting me?

If so why do I have to be harrassed in this way just playing a game to my best ability?

I don’t know what your “real life issues” are, but when you’re glancing at the screen ‘every 10 seconds or so,’ why not just move a little? Hit that W key for a few seconds during those ‘every 10 seconds or so.’ You’ll slowly and intentionally be scooting your way across the map; in effect playing.

If you can, maybe take it one step further and that every 30 minutes you’re focusing more on the game, port to a new map… You’ve got to be intentionally moving around and interacting with the game at least a little.

Another thing you can do is say a few things in map or guild chat every now and then… anything at all… then there’s a LOG of you being at your computer interacting with the game, even if someone does try and report you.

I report the people I see standing in the exact same spot for long periods of time. If I see someone hanging out, fine… but if I come back semi-frequently and they haven’t moved at all, that’s when I report them. If I see them move even a little, then I know they’re at their keyboard.

You may see yourself as harassed… I see you as a possible unfortunate extreme exception to the norm. Again, I don’t know what your “real life issues” are, but there’s got to be a few things you can do to help ensure you’re not punished by misunderstanding.

~EW

Edit: Actively interact with the game, however you choose to do so, and you are clearly not AFK farming. Auto-cast is not actively interacting with anything, it’s a setting and nothing more.

I appreciate your response especially your edit. Even though I still have the Auto-cast on I am interacting with the game. It might not be at a speed or level that others are doing but I am at my keyboard. I don’t feel I should have to talk/type to anyone to “prove” I’m there. I can not on a whim type or call someone over to my screen to type for me. I should not have to raise the level of my play to anyones standard.

You say I should move around, again why? If I can kill a set of mobs to earn my exp, why do I have to move somewhere else. If that is all I can muster at the time of play then I should be left to it.

The problem is with the system itself.

For one, anyone who has HoT + Mastery unlocked for ‘Auto loot’ is grandfathered into an ‘AFK Farming’ situation whether they know it or not. There certainly is no in game warning that these 2 in game functions break the ToS/EULA when the player is not 100% active at the keyboard.

Now add in play styles, those that manually attack but let auto heal do its thing. Or those that have pets (or Privateer Runes for the 30second Parrot Proc – Which is how my ranger is specked – dual Birds) on top of that.

and now you have a real AFK farming issue. Whether its intended by the player or not.

Those that are doing this intended, its pretty obvious when they are there for hours and hours and never move or interact with the game where another player can see. But what about those that dont intend to do it for more then 15-20mins while they are doing something else (IE GW2 is in a windowed-Full screen mode and your other stuff is running on top…you ARE there at the keyboard on that very same system…I do that all the time and have been for YEARS, and didn’t run into ANY issues with it until this last week)

And now, we have split messages from the company behind all of this. the only thing we have for certain is in game actions taken by those in control of this broken system.

Personally, I think Anet needs to do 3 things with this.

1. Clear offline message/Blog that focuses around this to settle on everything with all the aspects around it.

2. in game popup warnings, and an in game toggle to force logout when idle for X.

3. come to terms that this is going to be a ‘forever’ on going issue and just make it acceptable to do for X to Y periods during Z. So say 4 hours in a 24hour period is ok to AFK farm, and be done with it.

Or, fix the obvious ‘intended’ exploit that they built themselves, autoloot resetting the idle timeout timer. I’m sorry, but that is a bit beyond the player and to hold the player at fault for that..is just completely stupid.

and for the record, saying that AFK farming is pointless is not true. In a 24hour solid period one can get 350-400 bags + other scraps, that yields about 40G-65G with out touching the game in its current state, per account. That is the truth behind this here.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Another thing you can do is say a few things in map or guild chat every now and then… anything at all… then there’s a LOG of you being at your computer interacting with the game, even if someone does try and report you.

Incidentally, chatting doesn’t count as activity. I was sitting around on Broken Wall with a friend once, chatting away while we watched the sun go down and the stars come out, and I kept getting the inactivity warnings. I don’t know if chatting should reset the timer, as I can see ways of faking chat to get around the timer, but it highlights that activity in the game requires movement or skill use.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

I report the people I see standing in the exact same spot for long periods of time. If I see someone hanging out, fine… but if I come back semi-frequently and they haven’t moved at all, that’s when I report them. If I see them move even a little, then I know they’re at their keyboard.

That.. sounds a bit intrusive, to be honest. Like the nosy neighbour who’s always watching you and checking that you’ve put your bin out at the right time and it’s exactly the right distance from the kerb. I know it’s not a good metaphor since we’re all out in a public space in the game, but that’s the feeling your statement gives me.

How do you know if they’re ‘hanging out’? How do you know they’re not having a conversation with somebody? How do you know that they didn’t use a skill while you weren’t watching them? Do you take screenshots? See, it gets creepy really fast.

I’m not arguing for or against reporting supposed afk farmers. Just saying that this attitude of players watching each other to check if we’re afk makes me uncomfortable.

Anet have the logs. They should be able to determine where a timer should have kicked in but didn’t and why. I work with databases and it seems like there could be an automated process that would do this kind of data mining and simply warn anet when a possible situation comes up. They have the data. They’re in the best position to know what’s really going on. I’m happy to leave the big brother stuff to them and just play the game.

To provide some small contribution to the conversation, if I haven’t already, what about a diminishing returns on scaling then? One complaint is that afk’ers scale up events they’re in. Why couldn’t the scaling just ignore players that haven’t shown activity in some period of time? Would that go any way to addressing that concern?

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

For those of you who claim to have urgent things that’ll pull you away from your computer semi-frequently…

option 1) Esc key -> log out to character select. This takes 3 seconds.
option 2)M key (map) -> click on ANY waypoint -> click yes. This takes 4 seconds.
option 3) I key (inventory) -> double-click on a home portal stone or similar if you own one. Takes 3 seconds.

In a non life-threatening situation, there is no reason whatsoever one of these options can’t be done. The likelihood of you being reported as afk farming is infinitesimal if you are standing under a waypoint where no mobs spawn … If you put yourself in a location where you can’t afk farm when you go afk, then you can’t be punished for afk farming.

However, if those frequent urgent things that pull you away from the game are life-threatening, then maybe consider not playing GW2 while in that environment.

I agree with a lot of what you wrote above, but not this. Sure, people have the option of [f12] or using the HoM portal stone or going to PvP. But if your kid is screaming, would you want her to take the time to adjust her character? Or find out what was up? People have all sorts of non-life-threatening stuff in RL that can pull them away from the game. I have no issue with folks going suddenly AFK to deal with it, even on a necro or ranger.

The issue only arises when others use this as an excuse for attempting to gather rewards without playing the game in the first place.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

For those of you who claim to have urgent things that’ll pull you away from your computer semi-frequently…

option 1) Esc key -> log out to character select. This takes 3 seconds.
option 2)M key (map) -> click on ANY waypoint -> click yes. This takes 4 seconds.
option 3) I key (inventory) -> double-click on a home portal stone or similar if you own one. Takes 3 seconds.

In a non life-threatening situation, there is no reason whatsoever one of these options can’t be done. The likelihood of you being reported as afk farming is infinitesimal if you are standing under a waypoint where no mobs spawn … If you put yourself in a location where you can’t afk farm when you go afk, then you can’t be punished for afk farming.

However, if those frequent urgent things that pull you away from the game are life-threatening, then maybe consider not playing GW2 while in that environment.

I agree with a lot of what you wrote above, but not this. Sure, people have the option of [f12] or using the HoM portal stone or going to PvP. But if your kid is screaming, would you want her to take the time to adjust her character? Or find out what was up? People have all sorts of non-life-threatening stuff in RL that can pull them away from the game. I have no issue with folks going suddenly AFK to deal with it, even on a necro or ranger.

The issue only arises when others use this as an excuse for attempting to gather rewards without playing the game in the first place.

This. Life threatening situations don’t tend to announce themselves in advance. Or potentially life threatening. You don’t stop to think if a kid’s bloody murder scream is because they hurt themselves badly or if their sibling just destroyed their favorite toy so that you can judge if you have time to get your character to a safe spot. You get up and go check it out immediately.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

hu dahala mei.6034:

so i guess doing the 9 rings game in guild wars 1 was botting!

Guild Wars 1 didn’t have an idle timer and as I recall, 9 rings only required you to have an item in your inventory so really no comparison.

Actually it does. The AFK timer in GW1 is 10 hours.

There really is no comparison though. The 9 rings game on the Shin Jea boardwalk during certain annual festivals was actually designed to AFK. All you needed to do was make sure you had tickets in your inventory, pick a circle, then stand in it.

Ranger pets and necro minions weren’t designed for players to AFK while using them to farm with for extended periods of time. They were designed to give you loot (with auto loot) and EXP when killing stuff even though you never attacked what they killed. If you do it for 15 minutes or so once in a while you’re probably fine. It’s when you do it for hours on end, day in day out, it becomes a problem. It doesn’t matter if the AFK timer logs you out of the game, then you log back in, and walk away, every time you get kicked.

The problem is people aren’t using common sense.

Just because you can AFK farm by using game mechanics designed to function a certain way, doesn’t mean it’s OK to do it.

What would happen if you told a judge “My car was designed to go 150 miles per hour, therefore I should be able to drive that fast wherever I want”? Your fine for speeding would probably be increased and/or you’d serve jail time for your arrogance.

There’s a difference between going 5mph over the speed limit on the highway (which is generally allowed) and going 50mph over the limit just because your car is capable of it.

Seera.5916:

This. Life threatening situations don’t tend to announce themselves in advance. Or potentially life threatening. You don’t stop to think if a kid’s bloody murder scream is because they hurt themselves badly or if their sibling just destroyed their favorite toy so that you can judge if you have time to get your character to a safe spot. You get up and go check it out immediately.

What you wrote is completely correct but unfortunately also irrelevant for the topic.

This discussion has not been about people who were suspended for going afk for some minutes to check on their kids or because of important issues, because that did not happen. It exists only as a hypothetical situation, usually brought up by people who want to afk farm and use the “but I could be afk because of something important, how would anyone know” card as an argument that they should not be sanctioned for it.

Charrbeque.8729:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

hu dahala mei.6034:

so i guess doing the 9 rings game in guild wars 1 was botting!

Guild Wars 1 didn’t have an idle timer and as I recall, 9 rings only required you to have an item in your inventory so really no comparison.

Actually it does. The AFK timer in GW1 is 10 hours.

There really is no comparison though. The 9 rings game on the Shin Jea boardwalk during certain annual festivals was actually designed to AFK. All you needed to do was make sure you had tickets in your inventory, pick a circle, then stand in it.

Ranger pets and necro minions weren’t designed for players to AFK while using them to farm with for extended periods of time. They were designed to give you loot (with auto loot) and EXP when killing stuff even though you never attacked what they killed. If you do it for 15 minutes or so once in a while you’re probably fine. It’s when you do it for hours on end, day in day out, it becomes a problem. It doesn’t matter if the AFK timer logs you out of the game, then you log back in, and walk away, every time you get kicked.

The problem is people aren’t using common sense.

Just because you can AFK farm by using game mechanics designed to function a certain way, doesn’t mean it’s OK to do it.

What would happen if you told a judge “My car was designed to go 150 miles per hour, therefore I should be able to drive that fast wherever I want”? Your fine for speeding would probably be increased and/or you’d serve jail time for your arrogance.

There’s a difference between going 5mph over the speed limit on the highway (which is generally allowed) and going 50mph over the limit just because your car is capable of it.

except that AFK farming wont kill you, and others around you, if you were to get in a head on collision at 150MPH. Apples and Oranges.

Laws are written for a reason. Rules in a game are different, and when the system the company makes violates the rules, is it truly the players that need to suffer due to it? No.

Instead, said company needs to address the rules or fix the broken system. Targeting players for it at this point is not the correct path. There are no 3rd party programs/tools in use, there are no ‘tricks’ being used to violate the game, game files, or servers. Its all built in. And that IS the point.

Shikigami.4013:

Seera.5916:

This. Life threatening situations don’t tend to announce themselves in advance. Or potentially life threatening. You don’t stop to think if a kid’s bloody murder scream is because they hurt themselves badly or if their sibling just destroyed their favorite toy so that you can judge if you have time to get your character to a safe spot. You get up and go check it out immediately.

What you wrote is completely correct but unfortunately also irrelevant for the topic.

This discussion has not been about people who were suspended for going afk for some minutes to check on their kids or because of important issues, because that did not happen. It exists only as a hypothetical situation, usually brought up by people who want to afk farm and use the “but I could be afk because of something important, how would anyone know” card as an argument that they should not be sanctioned for it.

It was in a response to someone who said that players who have to leave the game suddenly have time enough to put their character in a spot where they can’t be accused of AFK farming at all.

I was pointing out that that isn’t always the case.

ANet likely doesn’t ban right away so there would be a lot of logs to weed out the players who truly did likely have an emergency and went AFK and unintentionally AFK farmed for a few hours from the players who were intentionally AFK farming and claiming innocence.

I don’t AFK farm. I find lazy and boring. I prefer actually playing the game. I don’t even have the pact mastery required to do it even if I wanted to.

I’m of the mind that if this is considered a problem there are technical solutions to it that don’t require players to big brother each other.

Just my thoughts:

1. Events could ignore players that are not moving/using skills for X minutes and not include them in scaling.

2. Pets could stop attacking for/defending players who are not moving/using skills for X minutes.

3. Auto-heals could stop working if a player hasn’t …etc, etc

4. If a player hasn’t moved, used a skill or chatted in X minutes, an icon of some sort could appear over their heads indicating AFK and maybe indicating some time since last action. This would obviously help other players determine if somebody has been afk longer than a timer should allow, but for me it would help to know if some corpse is afk so I don’t risk my life ressing someone afk in a dangerous situation.

These aren’t the only solutions or even the best ones, but I’m sure there are technical solutions anet could look into if they were inclined, rather than leaving it to players to judge each other and guess who’s legitimately afk and who isn’t.

sirsquishy.2619:

Charrbeque.8729:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

hu dahala mei.6034:

so i guess doing the 9 rings game in guild wars 1 was botting!

Guild Wars 1 didn’t have an idle timer and as I recall, 9 rings only required you to have an item in your inventory so really no comparison.

Actually it does. The AFK timer in GW1 is 10 hours.

There really is no comparison though. The 9 rings game on the Shin Jea boardwalk during certain annual festivals was actually designed to AFK. All you needed to do was make sure you had tickets in your inventory, pick a circle, then stand in it.

Ranger pets and necro minions weren’t designed for players to AFK while using them to farm with for extended periods of time. They were designed to give you loot (with auto loot) and EXP when killing stuff even though you never attacked what they killed. If you do it for 15 minutes or so once in a while you’re probably fine. It’s when you do it for hours on end, day in day out, it becomes a problem. It doesn’t matter if the AFK timer logs you out of the game, then you log back in, and walk away, every time you get kicked.

The problem is people aren’t using common sense.

Just because you can AFK farm by using game mechanics designed to function a certain way, doesn’t mean it’s OK to do it.

What would happen if you told a judge “My car was designed to go 150 miles per hour, therefore I should be able to drive that fast wherever I want”? Your fine for speeding would probably be increased and/or you’d serve jail time for your arrogance.

There’s a difference between going 5mph over the speed limit on the highway (which is generally allowed) and going 50mph over the limit just because your car is capable of it.

except that AFK farming wont kill you, and others around you, if you were to get in a head on collision at 150MPH. Apples and Oranges.

Laws are written for a reason. Rules in a game are different, and when the system the company makes violates the rules, is it truly the players that need to suffer due to it? No.

Instead, said company needs to address the rules or fix the broken system. Targeting players for it at this point is not the correct path. There are no 3rd party programs/tools in use, there are no ‘tricks’ being used to violate the game, game files, or servers. Its all built in. And that IS the point.

There have been things “built in” before which turned out to be exploits. Using 3rd party tools is not the only way to exploit. There is an idle timer that will kick you after about 60 minutes of inactivity. Inactivity being that of actions by the player such as moving and such. If players are circumventing this, so that they can AFK farm longer than they should have been able to, they are exploiting.

Players that are inactive were not meant to be in the game for extended periods (greater than 1 hour) which is why they have the idle timer. They have suspended people for going around this in the past and have even said that it is against the user agreement. I have even posted an image of an erro message that I found online informing someone that they were suspended.

sirsquishy.2619:

Charrbeque.8729:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

hu dahala mei.6034:

so i guess doing the 9 rings game in guild wars 1 was botting!

Guild Wars 1 didn’t have an idle timer and as I recall, 9 rings only required you to have an item in your inventory so really no comparison.

Actually it does. The AFK timer in GW1 is 10 hours.

There really is no comparison though. The 9 rings game on the Shin Jea boardwalk during certain annual festivals was actually designed to AFK. All you needed to do was make sure you had tickets in your inventory, pick a circle, then stand in it.

Ranger pets and necro minions weren’t designed for players to AFK while using them to farm with for extended periods of time. They were designed to give you loot (with auto loot) and EXP when killing stuff even though you never attacked what they killed. If you do it for 15 minutes or so once in a while you’re probably fine. It’s when you do it for hours on end, day in day out, it becomes a problem. It doesn’t matter if the AFK timer logs you out of the game, then you log back in, and walk away, every time you get kicked.

The problem is people aren’t using common sense.

Just because you can AFK farm by using game mechanics designed to function a certain way, doesn’t mean it’s OK to do it.

What would happen if you told a judge “My car was designed to go 150 miles per hour, therefore I should be able to drive that fast wherever I want”? Your fine for speeding would probably be increased and/or you’d serve jail time for your arrogance.

There’s a difference between going 5mph over the speed limit on the highway (which is generally allowed) and going 50mph over the limit just because your car is capable of it.

except that AFK farming wont kill you, and others around you, if you were to get in a head on collision at 150MPH. Apples and Oranges.

Laws are written for a reason. Rules in a game are different, and when the system the company makes violates the rules, is it truly the players that need to suffer due to it? No.

Instead, said company needs to address the rules or fix the broken system. Targeting players for it at this point is not the correct path. There are no 3rd party programs/tools in use, there are no ‘tricks’ being used to violate the game, game files, or servers. Its all built in. And that IS the point.

The difference in consequence is irrelevant. The point I was making is that, just because something is designed to function a certain way, does not mean you have the right to do whatever you want.

It has always been against the rules to farm for extended periods of time without being physically present at your computer. It doesn’t matter if you use a 3rd party program, or in game mechanics.

Claiming ArenaNet designed the system to violate their own rules is the dumbest thing I ever heard. They designed the system to function a certain way, not for players to abuse it. That’s like saying car manufacturers build their cars to violate speed limit laws. Cars are designed to go real fast, not to go too far over the speed limit.

You have to use common sense and take responsibility for your own actions. The players are the ones making the conscious decision to AFK farm, not ArenaNet.

sirsquishy.2619:

except that AFK farming wont kill you, and others around you, if you were to get in a head on collision at 150MPH. Apples and Oranges.

Like so many other people you fail to recognize the difference between a comparison and an analogy. An analogy points out the similarities of underlying principles, while a comparison aims to point out differences.

The similar principle here is “If something is technically possible and intended in certain situations, that does not mean that it is allowed and intended in every situation”.

Pets were designed to be able to kill mobs on their own. That is ok while you blow your nose, take a phonecall, or (to re-use the example) to check why your kid is screaming, but not ok when you intentionally park your char in a mob spawn and keep farming it while afk.

A car may be designed to be able to drive 150 mph. That is ok on a german Autobahn without speedlimit but not ok on a US highway with a fiftyfive limit. (Funny, when I type the number instead of the word fiftyfive the forum will turn it into a kitten.)

Car accidents and dying are as irrelevant to his analogy as environmental pollution, work situation of those assembling the car, color of the car or that a car usually needs gas to drive while an afk farmer needs electricity to farm.

sirsquishy.2619:

Laws are written for a reason. Rules in a game are different, and when the system the company makes violates the rules, is it truly the players that need to suffer due to it? No.

The system does not violate any rules. The player who decides to afk farm does.

Instead, said company needs to address the rules or fix the broken system. Targeting players for it at this point is not the correct path. There are no 3rd party programs/tools in use, there are no ‘tricks’ being used to violate the game, game files, or servers. Its all built in. And that IS the point.

The rules are fine. The system is not broken. What got you suspended is your decision to have your pc play the game automated with you being afk, not the system that made it possible for you to do so, just like the gun is not at fault when you decide to shoot someone.

You are right, I didn’t even think about that. I have hated these stupid overly sensitive filters since 2004 when NCsoft would not let me name my Lineage2 character Shinigami because of the 4 letters niga in the middle ><

Sorry for getting a little off topic everyone, let’s get back to “I am just using intended game mechanics to my advantage” versus “No, you are being a cheap cheater” Or something like that.