Guild Wars 2

Astralporing.1957:

Galen Grey.4709:

Smith.1826:

That’s understandable, except I don’t think this should all be at the expense of people who are responsible with their playtime.

I has to be a balance. Thats what the daily system does. Try to balance necessary evils with fun.

Except those evils aren’t necessary. And there’s no fun included.

Why is something like time-gated charged quartz crystals (account-bound) used to make Celestial gear (account-bound, no statistical advantage gained) necessary? There’s no fun charging the crystals and there’s no balance disruption in doing away with the once-per-day limitation. So why have it?

Anymore, I do the Daily and log off. Sometimes, I’ll play an extended period, but it’s getting rarer and rarer.

Galen Grey.4709:

Look at this way, perhaps it will seem more clear technically speaking it should take you 24 hours of playtime to earn a banana because a banana represents a whole day effort. That would be cruel and impossible so instead Arenanet are satisfied that you played the day by requiring a little proof, proof that takes 30 minutes to earn. You’re being given a discount on the amount of work required so to speak. Saying you diserve twice the bananas as another player because you play twice as much as them is wrong simply because its impossible to play 2 days in one.

No, no, no. You do. not. understand. You keep thinking you understand, but you don’t.

I am going to take this as slow as possible for you. Please, read this five times before responding.

With time gated content, 24 hours of time = 30 minutes of game time.

1 hour of game time = 30 minutes of game time.
2 hours of game time = 30 minutes of game time.
3 hours of game time = 30 minutes of game time.
And so on.

This means that you will not make any more progress no matter how much longer you play after 30 minutes.

Without time gated limitations 30 minutes of game time = 30 minutes of game time.

1 hour of game time = 1 hour of game time.
2 hours of game time = 2 hours of game time.
3 hours of game time = 3 hours of game time.
And so on.

You keep trying to defend a system that I am against as if I don’t understand it. I know exactly what time gated content is and I am telling you exactly why I hate it. I am telling you that is creates limitations that are unfair to anyone who can’t log in every day. Time gated content puts pressure on people to play every day instead of playing when they can. Do you understand that?

I want people to be rewarded for how much time they spend playing rather than rewarding them for playing within set time frames.

Again, back to my example. A person who spends 20 hours playing on the weekend because he is too busy to play during the week will get far fewer rewards and far less progress than someone who spends 3.5 hours throughout the week.

With time gated content 3.5 hours > 20 hours. A person who spends less time playing gets more reward. Do you understand the problem here?

Dog.1472:

Do you understand the problem here?

Yes, you are annoyed that someone with loads of free time to play, and therefore is so much better than a more casual player, is forced to go at the pace of the casual player.

Did I get that right?

Myself and others have suggested that they could fix the problem of being able to play daily by allowing 7 “dailies” to be done once a week, whether it’s all in a single day’s play session or spread out over the week.

But I’m expecting a new argument how that’s still unfair to you.

Behellagh.1468:

Dog.1472:

Do you understand the problem here?

Yes, you are annoyed that someone with loads of free time to play, and therefore is so much better than a more casual player, is forced to go at the pace of the casual player.

Did I get that right?

Myself and others have suggested that they could fix the problem of being able to play daily by allowing 7 “dailies” to be done once a week, whether it’s all in a single day’s play session or spread out over the week.

But I’m expecting a new argument how that’s still unfair to you.

But my dog died so I was gone for my one day a week of playing. Can’t they extend it to a month?

But my aunt died so I was gone for my one day a month of playing. Can’t they extend it to a year?

But my job got harder so I was gone for my one day a year of playing. Can’t they extend it…?

/sarcasm

Let’s play the scenario out then, shall we? Let’s say there are no more dailies.

What is better now? Nothing.

What really changed? We lost one option, an easy option, to earn the coin, karma, and a bonus reward once per day.

So if we just lose the once-a-day reward, what does it get replaced with? No reward? An ongoing every second of the game reward? An every hour you are logged on you get a reward type of reward? What?

I get it. People want what they want, and they don’t want to accept the rationale behind the system that prevents them from getting their way. And then there is the, “Its not fair the way I play” people who think that something can be everything to everyone. It’s not, and it never will be, and that’s OK; not everything is needs to be fair or equal to all.

Behellagh.1468:

Dog.1472:

Do you understand the problem here?

Yes, you are annoyed that someone with loads of free time to play, and therefore is so much better than a more casual player, is forced to go at the pace of the casual player.

Being condescending and using hyperbole doesn’t help your argument. Try phrasing it like a mature adult: “You are annoyed that you are being forced to go at a pace which does not fit with your gaming habits.” See, was that so hard?

Behellagh.1468:

Dog.1472:

Do you understand the problem here?

Yes, you are annoyed that someone with loads of free time to play, and therefore is so much better than a more casual player, is forced to go at the pace of the casual player.

Did I get that right?

Close enough.

Here’s another example using real world comparison.

Two people work the same job at the same pay, however the company has a policy that you only get paid for the the first 30 minutes of working. After that, no one would continue to stay there, obviously. You are limited to only 30 minutes of paid work a day.

Now, what if someone wanted to work 8 hours a day instead? Well, too bad. You only get to work 30 minutes today. Well, what if I have more than 30 minutes available today? Too bad, because other employees can only work for 30 minutes, then everyone can only work for 30 minutes.

It is quite simple. People get paid for the amount of work they do. If you think a person who works for 30 minutes deserves the same pay as someone who works for 8 hours, well, I would just laugh in your face.

Dog.1472:

Behellagh.1468:

Dog.1472:

Do you understand the problem here?

Yes, you are annoyed that someone with loads of free time to play, and therefore is so much better than a more casual player, is forced to go at the pace of the casual player.

Did I get that right?

Close enough.

Here’s another example using real world comparison.

Two people work the same job at the same pay, however the company has a policy that you only get paid for the the first 30 minutes of working. After that, no one would continue to stay there, obviously. You are limited to only 30 minutes of paid work a day.

Now, what if someone wanted to work 8 hours a day instead? Well, too bad. You only get to work 30 minutes today. Well, what if I have more than 30 minutes available today? Too bad, because other employees can only work for 30 minutes, then everyone can only work for 30 minutes.

It is quite simple. People get paid for the amount of work they do. If you think a person who works for 30 minutes deserves the same pay as someone who works for 8 hours, well, I would just laugh in your face.

Except that’s not how GW2 is. I can keep playing after 30 minutes and keep getting rewarded. Sure, I don’t get more Laurel/Charged Quartz Crystal, but I can still get more of other items.

It’s more of a “the first 30 minutes of working everyday will get you a free lollipop. After that, you have to wait another day for a lollipop.”

Esplen.3940:

Dog.1472:

Behellagh.1468:

Dog.1472:

Do you understand the problem here?

Yes, you are annoyed that someone with loads of free time to play, and therefore is so much better than a more casual player, is forced to go at the pace of the casual player.

Did I get that right?

Close enough.

Here’s another example using real world comparison.

Two people work the same job at the same pay, however the company has a policy that you only get paid for the the first 30 minutes of working. After that, no one would continue to stay there, obviously. You are limited to only 30 minutes of paid work a day.

Now, what if someone wanted to work 8 hours a day instead? Well, too bad. You only get to work 30 minutes today. Well, what if I have more than 30 minutes available today? Too bad, because other employees can only work for 30 minutes, then everyone can only work for 30 minutes.

It is quite simple. People get paid for the amount of work they do. If you think a person who works for 30 minutes deserves the same pay as someone who works for 8 hours, well, I would just laugh in your face.

Except that’s not how GW2 is. I can keep playing after 30 minutes and keep getting rewarded. Sure, I don’t get more Laurel/Charged Quartz Crystal, but I can still get more of other items.

It’s more of a “the first 30 minutes of working everyday will get you a free lollipop. After that, you have to wait another day for a lollipop.”

Too bad, I only care about lollipops.

If it takes me 30 minutes to make enough money to buy a lollipop, then I can work another 30 minutes to get another lollipop.

If it takes me 12 hours to buy a lollipop, then I can work another 12 hours to buy a lollipop.

I don’t care how much lollipops cost or how much I get paid. The only thing that matters is that I can buy as many lollipops as I want.

How many times have you gone to a store and been told, “Sorry, but we’re only selling one lollipop per person today.”?

Edit: even though the lollipops are in unlimited supply because they’re digital.

Behellagh.1468:

Dog.1472:

Do you understand the problem here?

Yes, you are annoyed that someone with loads of free time to play, and therefore is so much better than a more casual player, is forced to go at the pace of the casual player.

Did I get that right?

Nope, you got it completely wrong. A casual player, after all, won’t usually be playing every day, and even when playing, won’t be always doing dailies. What this does is actually the opposite – it doesn’t allow anyone casual to ever catch up. It enforces a strictly non-casual playing style.

As a sideeffect, it is something that stimulates a fast burnout. People that were logging in and playing for fun find out they are doing it for dailies instead. Then they start to log off after doing dailies. Then something happens that causes them to stop logging for a while – and they realize that they don’t really want to return anymore. It’s a pretty common story – in fact, GW2 was advertised to be (among other things) a game for people that left WoW-alikes for just such a reason, and didn’t want to get through it again.

Astralporing.1957:

Behellagh.1468:

Dog.1472:

Do you understand the problem here?

Yes, you are annoyed that someone with loads of free time to play, and therefore is so much better than a more casual player, is forced to go at the pace of the casual player.

Did I get that right?

Nope, you got it completely wrong. A casual player, after all, won’t usually be playing every day, and even when playing, won’t be always doing dailies. What this does is actually the opposite – it doesn’t allow anyone casual to ever catch up. It enforces a strictly non-casual playing style.

As a sideeffect, it is something that stimulates a fast burnout. People that were logging in and playing for fun find out they are doing it for dailies instead. Then they start to log off after doing dailies. Then something happens that causes them to stop logging for a while – and they realize that they don’t really want to return anymore. It’s a pretty common story – in fact, GW2 was advertised to be (among other things) a game for people that left WoW-alikes for just such a reason, and didn’t want to get through it again.

Hey, there’s another point of view from a completely different perspective. It’s even bad for casuals as well, or just anyone who doesn’t play every day.

All in all the only thing dailies accomplish is that it removes choice. You don’t get to make more or less progress in any given day and are forced to progress at the pace that Anet decides for you. Instead of making 7% progress this day, 0% progress the next day, 18% progress the next day, you are left with either making a set amount of progress or none at all. I don’t need anyone telling me how much I can do or when to.

All a daily is is a limit. As I have been saying from the start, it’s a bad way of forcing people to play every day.

Honestly, it’s like saying wow, Tivo is dumb. I love having to work my schedule around television programming or else missing it. It sure is inconvenient that I can’t record what I want and watch it when I want to.

I feel like people forget how useful Ascended actually are… not really that useful at all. The difference in stats is so negligible that food provide more stats.

Esplen.3940:

I feel like people forget how useful Ascended actually are… not really that useful at all. The difference in stats is so negligible that food provide more stats.

We’re talking about all content that is limited to once per day or ever will be. It isn’t just ascended gear. There is a lot more you can buy with laurels. There’s also dungeon rewards, celestial gear, and so on.

The problem here isn’t about what is limited to dailies, but the dailies themselves. The idea of limiting your progress in such a way is a very bad idea.

People should be allowed to do what they want to and when they want to do it. That’s the point.

If I want to run fractals all day, then I should get a chest every time I finish an even number 10 and over Why am I limited to one? I do the same amount of work, the same dungeon, why don’t I get the same rewards then?

I honestly don’t see the issue. People are allowed to do what they want to do when they want to do it.

Do you even English?

The reason they limited fractal chests to one a day is to limit the progress someone can make towards the rewards of that dungeon. They are pretty transparent about that.

That’s the point.

It removes my choice of being able to farm the dungeon for however long I want to. I don’t get to continue playing for a chance at a fractal skin. If I didn’t get one, welp, come back tomorrow.

That’s just that example.

If I want to farm all day to get Chauncey von Snuffles III I don’t have a choice about how to do so. I can either log on at a set of time and do a set amount of tasks for a set amount of time and that’s it. Come back tomorrow.

Do you seriously not understand how this limits players? Is it that hard for you to understand why it is irritating to be told you can’t make any more than a set amount of progress no matter how much you want to work for it?

Dailies. are. limitations.

Edit: Before Galen comes along and goes hurr durr, well that just gives me more choice because a fractal chest is clearly worth 24 hours. Then I can just go do other content. Wrong. Here is what you fail so horribly at comprehending. 24 hours is not the same amount of game time for everyone. Okay? Some people play an hour, 2 hours, whatever. To say that this reward is only worth one per 24 hours creates limits for people that spend more time playing on any particular day, or less time on other days.

How long it takes to earn something is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that I get to choose when I want to do it and how much time I spend doing it.

It’s pretty hard for me to understand why there’s a problem. I play the game for 8 hours a day, at least, and there’s so much for me to do that I don’t feel limited in any form or way.

Craptrain.7203:

Behellagh.1468:

Dog.1472:

Do you understand the problem here?

Yes, you are annoyed that someone with loads of free time to play, and therefore is so much better than a more casual player, is forced to go at the pace of the casual player.

Being condescending and using hyperbole doesn’t help your argument. Try phrasing it like a mature adult: “You are annoyed that you are being forced to go at a pace which does not fit with your gaming habits.” See, was that so hard?

I’m not the one repeatedly stamping my feet declaring how unfair it is that a requirement for some slightly better gear was set up to allow all players to acquire them at around the same rate, assuming they play daily. So I choose to reply in the language he was using. I’m not the better man <stab> or a good one <stab> I’m just alright.

Esplen.3940:

It’s pretty hard for me to understand why there’s a problem. I play the game for 8 hours a day, at least, and there’s so much for me to do that I don’t feel limited in any form or way.

Let’s take something you enjoy. I have no idea what you enjoy. I’m going to pretend here that you like to play WvW.

Esplen loves WvW.

Well, guess what? Anet has decided to limit the amount of time you can spend on a WvW map to 1 hour per day. Want to play more? Come back tomorrow.

I actually do not care what you enjoy doing. That’s your business, just as what I enjoy doing is my business.

Maybe the whole reason I play the game is to get all the minis? Well, once I’ve got my daily, there is nothing more I can do about getting Chauncey von Snuffles III or Goedulf until tomorrow. I already have all of the other ones.

Does this make it easier to understand why limiting the amount you can do is a bad thing? This is a much more extreme example, but the concept is exactly the same. Whether it be an event, or an item, it is all part of the game. It is not for you to decide what I enjoy or tell me that I can only do so much of it.

Again, this thread is NOT about what currently is limited to once a day. This entire thread is about the prospect of limiting content to once a day.

Dog.1472:

Esplen.3940:

It’s pretty hard for me to understand why there’s a problem. I play the game for 8 hours a day, at least, and there’s so much for me to do that I don’t feel limited in any form or way.

Let’s take something you enjoy. I have no idea what you enjoy. I’m going to pretend here that you like to play WvW.

Esplen loves WvW.

Well, guess what? Anet has decided to limit the amount of time you can spend on a WvW map to 1 hour per day. Want to play more? Come back tomorrow.

I actually do not care what you enjoy doing. That’s your business, just as what I enjoy doing is my business.

Maybe the whole reason I play the game is to get all the minis? Well, once I’ve got my daily, there is nothing more I can do about getting Chauncey von Snuffles III or Goedulf until tomorrow. I already have all of the other ones.

Does this make it easier to understand why limiting the amount you can do is a bad thing? This is a much more extreme example, but the concept is exactly the same. Whether it be an event, or an item, it is all part of the game. It is not for you to decide what I enjoy or tell me that I can only do so much of it.

Again, this thread is NOT about what currently is limited to once a day. This entire thread is about the prospect of limiting content to once a day.

That’s a good illustration, they’re not limiting content though. Just rewards.

Shockwave.1230:

That’s a good illustration, they’re not limiting content though. Just rewards.

Except reward is content. If the only reason I want to play right now is to get the rewards from something, then I no longer have a reason to play once I reach the daily limit.

If someone just wants to play WvW, then they no longer have any reason to play once they reach the daily map time limit.

Dog.1472:

Shockwave.1230:

That’s a good illustration, they’re not limiting content though. Just rewards.

Except reward is content. If the only reason I want to play right now is to get the rewards from something, then I no longer have a reason to play once I reach the daily limit.

If someone just wants to play WvW, then they no longer have any reason to play once they reach the daily map time limit.

I feel like if someone is just playing for rewards there a games that do it better. My big issue with the concept of daily rewards is how closely it’s tied to vertical progression, which to play off your example has it’s most noticeable impact on WvW in small skirmishes or duels.

*Edit – I should also add, I don’t like that there is an exclusive stat combination linked to daily time gating

Shockwave.1230:

Dog.1472:

Shockwave.1230:

That’s a good illustration, they’re not limiting content though. Just rewards.

Except reward is content. If the only reason I want to play right now is to get the rewards from something, then I no longer have a reason to play once I reach the daily limit.

If someone just wants to play WvW, then they no longer have any reason to play once they reach the daily map time limit.

I feel like if someone is just playing for rewards there a games that do it better. My big issue with the concept of daily rewards is how closely it’s tied to vertical progression, which to play off your example has it’s most noticeable impact on WvW in small skirmishes or duels.

*Edit – I should also add, I don’t like that there is an exclusive stat combination linked to daily time gating

I’m not sure I understand completely. You’re talking about the fact that ascended gear, which is time gated, does in fact have higher stats correct? It is definitely true that in a duel, someone with higher stats is at an advantage. Plain and simple. At the end of the day, skill has a far more significant impact, but you absolutely can’t deny the fact that a person with better stats and gear is at an advantage regardless.

So yes, while indirectly, there are already limits on a player’s ability to play WvW. You simply cannot perform the best that you can because you are forced to wait oh so long until you eventually have the highest stats.

I don’t disagree there. It puts people that have been playing from an earlier date at an advantage over people that started playing later, even if they’ve been playing for more time and there’s nothing they can do about it, except wait.

Which also brings everything back to the original point, that time gating content forces people to play every day and for so many days. It is essentially watering down content so that people have no choice to play at a predetermined pace set by Anet rather than how they choose to.

Change rewards from one a day to seven a week. You still acquire them at the same pace. It just gives players the freedom to do one every day or seven on the weekend, etc. I don’t see how anyone can be against this.

Dog.1472:

I’m not sure I understand completely. You’re talking about the fact that ascended gear, which is time gated, does in fact have higher stats correct? It is definitely true that in a duel, someone with higher stats is at an advantage. Plain and simple. At the end of the day, skill has a far more significant impact, but you absolutely can’t deny the fact that a person with better stats and gear is at an advantage regardless.

Actually, if one of those is an engineer, ranger, or elementalist? Doesn’t matter what their gear is They’re faceplanting in two minutes, tops.

I’ve been reading your posts, and I’m probably not understanding. But you have interesting points. I’m not sure I agree with your argument but:

- Laurels aren’t completely critical, and there’s usually not much effort required to earn them. They were put in as a method of alternatively releasing Ascended accessories via a time gate instead of RNG or Fractal-farming. If they ever introduce another method of earning Neckpieces? We’ll have other options than Laurels.

- The Charged Quartz are only good for “Celestial” gear currently, a stat combination I recall stat crunchers basically going “not worth it” a while back. As in “better to go Zerker or something which bolsters you than a jack-of-all-trades”.

- Bonus Chests were made because the World Bosses were simply not dropping loot all the time which had any value. I know I (often) got a chest with four blues and one green. They’re limited to once per day to keep people from just farming the same thing over and over – same as the actual chests they drop are limited access.

- Dungeon Rewards I can’t speak to because I don’t do dungeons. I also don’t get invited along on any, so they’re something I shan’t talk about as I have no experience and no stake in them. This includes Fractals.

I’m trying to remember if there are any other daily type content limitations going on, but I can’t think of any right away.

Draehl.2681:

Change rewards from one a day to seven a week. You still acquire them at the same pace. It just gives players the freedom to do one every day or seven on the weekend, etc. I don’t see how anyone can be against this.

. . . I can point out one issue. People burning all their rewards in one day might, possibly, have no more reason to log in. People they know and who want to play with that first person wouldn’t want to show up if their buddy wasn’t around, so they start to synchronize . . .

Enough people show up at the same time to the same content it becomes known there’s a “hot time” to get in on things, and thus more people start a tendency . . .

Sure, it may not entirely be realistic, but I have watched it happen before with an entire guild in a different game where events were limited to a very tough limit per day; they would always run at reset time and if you happened to not be available? PUG or wait for the next day.

Behellagh.1468:

I’m not the one repeatedly stamping my feet declaring how unfair it is that a requirement for some slightly better gear was set up to allow all players to acquire them at around the same rate, assuming they play daily. So I choose to reply in the language he was using. I’m not the better man <stab> or a good one <stab> I’m just alright.

The, “all,” you mention is mutually exclusive with the assumption you postulate. You support a system designed in such a manner that it is inevitable that those able to play more often will be rewarded to a greater degree while, “stamping your feet,” in opposition to a suggested system that would offer greater reward those who play more. The hypocrisy there is pretty intense.

Galen Grey.4709:

Conceptually I full agree, In practice though can you imagine enjoying an 12x repeatable epic quest chains that take 15 days to complete each that wouldnt drive you crazy?

Why are you assuming that’s what I meant by ‘epic quest chain’? I’m not sure you know what you’re agreeing with.

More importantly, why do you keep quantifying everything by how much time – not skill or effort – it takes to complete? That does nothing good for the game.

Galen Grey.4709:

I has to be a balance. Thats what the daily system does. Try to balance necessary evils with fun.

You get to wait 15 days but arent required to grind.
You are required to play 15 days but are free to play whatever you want
etc..
People already find the minuscule effort required for a single daily daunting and boring… Multiplying it by 7 will make it 7 times worst.

If they’re not having fun doing it, they shouldn’t be doing it – and proceeding to ruin the game for themselves shouldn’t ruin the game for other players. There’s no subscription fee here, there’s no money to be made in determining how someone should spend their game time.

That, or maybe content that can be considered “dull” shouldn’t be “rewarded”.

Actually once per week is a good compromise. As, only on the weekends I’d want to do dungeons. And only on particular days would I want to do stories. And so on. It is rare that they coincide with the dailies, which annoys me a bit. Either give us all the options for dailies every day of the week (and require you to do 5 of them, as is the case now) or 7 “dailies” that need to be finished by the end of the week in any order. And honestly, just add more variety to dailies. I’ve gotten annoyed with PvE dailies so I’ve started doing PvP dailies. I used to do PvE ones a lot, and even monthlies, but PvP ones are so much less annoying and you don’t have to do the same content over and over again.

It shouldn’t matter what people do that day, it should just matter that they logged in and played.

darkace.8925:

Astralporing.1957:

Galen Grey.4709:

Smith.1826:

That’s understandable, except I don’t think this should all be at the expense of people who are responsible with their playtime.

I has to be a balance. Thats what the daily system does. Try to balance necessary evils with fun.

Except those evils aren’t necessary. And there’s no fun included.

Why is something like time-gated charged quartz crystals (account-bound) used to make Celestial gear (account-bound, no statistical advantage gained) necessary? There’s no fun charging the crystals and there’s no balance disruption in doing away with the once-per-day limitation. So why have it?

I have no answer to your question… Dont know why they decided to do time gating with exotic gear. Only think I can think of is perhaps to get people used to the idea prior to ascended gear crafting? Your guess is as good as mine.

Dog.1472:

Galen Grey.4709:

Look at this way, perhaps it will seem more clear technically speaking it should take you 24 hours of playtime to earn a banana because a banana represents a whole day effort. That would be cruel and impossible so instead Arenanet are satisfied that you played the day by requiring a little proof, proof that takes 30 minutes to earn. You’re being given a discount on the amount of work required so to speak. Saying you diserve twice the bananas as another player because you play twice as much as them is wrong simply because its impossible to play 2 days in one.

No, no, no. You do. not. understand. You keep thinking you understand, but you don’t.

I am going to take this as slow as possible for you. Please, read this five times before responding.

With time gated content, 24 hours of time = 30 minutes of game time.

1 hour of game time = 30 minutes of game time.
2 hours of game time = 30 minutes of game time.
3 hours of game time = 30 minutes of game time.
And so on.

This means that you will not make any more progress no matter how much longer you play after 30 minutes.

Without time gated limitations 30 minutes of game time = 30 minutes of game time.

1 hour of game time = 1 hour of game time.
2 hours of game time = 2 hours of game time.
3 hours of game time = 3 hours of game time.
And so on.

You keep trying to defend a system that I am against as if I don’t understand it. I know exactly what time gated content is and I am telling you exactly why I hate it. I am telling you that is creates limitations that are unfair to anyone who can’t log in every day. Time gated content puts pressure on people to play every day instead of playing when they can. Do you understand that?

I want people to be rewarded for how much time they spend playing rather than rewarding them for playing within set time frames.

Again, back to my example. A person who spends 20 hours playing on the weekend because he is too busy to play during the week will get far fewer rewards and far less progress than someone who spends 3.5 hours throughout the week.

With time gated content 3.5 hours > 20 hours. A person who spends less time playing gets more reward. Do you understand the problem here?

Can you let go of your anger for a second and try to think objectively. Yes what you said its true with time gating …

30 minutes is rewarding the same as if you played 24hrs.. thats the point. Instead of asking you to farm whatever material for a whole day for 15 straight days the game is asking you to just play whatever you want…

You’re saying that time gating is making it unfair on you if you cant log everyday where as if there was no time gating the same unfairness wouldnt exist.. You’re wrong, you’ll get the same result in both cases. If there was no time gating and your reward required 15 days of farming if you miss one day its going to take you 16 days to get your reward just like if you miss one day with time gate it will take you 16 days to get your reward… its the same exact thing.

You keep thinking in terms of 30 minute units.

Yes some one who plays 30 minutes every day will get rewarded more then someone who plays 10 hrs on Saturday and 10 hours on Sunday. But how would that change anything you remove time gating and instead of requiring 30 minutes everyday now you require say 8hrs of farming everyday? People who can put those 8hrs everyday will still be rewarded more then you who plays 10hrs on saturday and 10hrs on sunday. You will not be gaining anything while on the other hand you’d be forcing Everyone to throw away 120hrs of the game farming a material for each single armor piece which very few people will find fun as opposed to potentially getting it entirely for free execpt for the 15 minute wait. (even though it takes 30 mins per day to finish the daily you can just play whatever you enjoy and get it done with devoting anytime specifically for the daily)

Dog.1472:

Behellagh.1468:

Dog.1472:

Do you understand the problem here?

Yes, you are annoyed that someone with loads of free time to play, and therefore is so much better than a more casual player, is forced to go at the pace of the casual player.

Did I get that right?

Close enough.

Here’s another example using real world comparison.

Two people work the same job at the same pay, however the company has a policy that you only get paid for the the first 30 minutes of working. After that, no one would continue to stay there, obviously. You are limited to only 30 minutes of paid work a day.

Now, what if someone wanted to work 8 hours a day instead? Well, too bad. You only get to work 30 minutes today. Well, what if I have more than 30 minutes available today? Too bad, because other employees can only work for 30 minutes, then everyone can only work for 30 minutes.

It is quite simple. People get paid for the amount of work they do. If you think a person who works for 30 minutes deserves the same pay as someone who works for 8 hours, well, I would just laugh in your face.

Your analogy is wrong. The company is paying you for the whole 8hrs after 30 minutes. The only thing you could argue is some people are leaving after those 30 minutes while others are still working the whole 8hrs and getting payed exactly the same.

But complaining thakittens unfair because people who work (30 minutes) everyday are getting paid for a whole week while those who work just 2 days are getting paid for 2 days is misguided, if the company feels 30 minutes is enough for a person to get 8hrs wage its their business. you’re not being cheated you’re getting the same treatment.

Dog.1472:

Esplen.3940:

Dog.1472:

Behellagh.1468:

Dog.1472:

Do you understand the problem here?

Yes, you are annoyed that someone with loads of free time to play, and therefore is so much better than a more casual player, is forced to go at the pace of the casual player.

Did I get that right?

Close enough.

Here’s another example using real world comparison.

Two people work the same job at the same pay, however the company has a policy that you only get paid for the the first 30 minutes of working. After that, no one would continue to stay there, obviously. You are limited to only 30 minutes of paid work a day.

Now, what if someone wanted to work 8 hours a day instead? Well, too bad. You only get to work 30 minutes today. Well, what if I have more than 30 minutes available today? Too bad, because other employees can only work for 30 minutes, then everyone can only work for 30 minutes.

It is quite simple. People get paid for the amount of work they do. If you think a person who works for 30 minutes deserves the same pay as someone who works for 8 hours, well, I would just laugh in your face.

Except that’s not how GW2 is. I can keep playing after 30 minutes and keep getting rewarded. Sure, I don’t get more Laurel/Charged Quartz Crystal, but I can still get more of other items.

It’s more of a “the first 30 minutes of working everyday will get you a free lollipop. After that, you have to wait another day for a lollipop.”

Too bad, I only care about lollipops.

If it takes me 30 minutes to make enough money to buy a lollipop, then I can work another 30 minutes to get another lollipop.

If it takes me 12 hours to buy a lollipop, then I can work another 12 hours to buy a lollipop.

I don’t care how much lollipops cost or how much I get paid. The only thing that matters is that I can buy as many lollipops as I want.

How many times have you gone to a store and been told, “Sorry, but we’re only selling one lollipop per person today.”?

Edit: even though the lollipops are in unlimited supply because they’re digital.

nope, the lollipop doesnt cost 30 mins wage, the lollipop costs an entire days wage you’re just being give one for free after 30 mins. Thats why I am say your argument of removing free lollipops and let us work for them is missguided cause its impossible to earn more lollipops (a laurel repesents a whole day of play you can never play 2 days in a single day thus you can never make up for lost days). All your asking for is for the effort of getting an ascended item to be increased by some 16 fold. (assuming they go with a day being represented as 8 hrs)

got to say, galen is really working overtime in here trying to turn analogies on their heads to justify his arguments. someone should get this guy an extra lollipop

Dog.1472:

Edit: Before Galen comes along and goes hurr durr, well that just gives me more choice because a fractal chest is clearly worth 24 hours. Then I can just go do other content. Wrong. Here is what you fail so horribly at comprehending. 24 hours is not the same amount of game time for everyone. Okay? Some people play an hour, 2 hours, whatever. To say that this reward is only worth one per 24 hours creates limits for people that spend more time playing on any particular day, or less time on other days.

How long it takes to earn something is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that I get to choose when I want to do it and how much time I spend doing it.

Hurr Durr… having you play the game to get a reward is a limitation too. One that makes sense. If a developer wanted to they can give you all the rewards possible in an infinite inventory ready for you the first time you log. Would that be fun? no…

If Anet decided to make each ascended piece available from a vendor for 10s a piece you can farm all the sets you want in a single day… would that make you enjoy the game? that day perhaps but then you’ll get nothing to work for an you’re slowly loose interest.

What you call limitations are in fact design decision meant to strike a balance between Effort, Time and Reward.

The Reward you clearly want else you wouldnt feel so passionate about this.
Effort well, I am sure no one will argue 10 hours is too much effort.
What remains is time. You seem to feel 15 days is an excessive time to wait for a piece of BiS gear.

Dog.1472:

Shockwave.1230:

That’s a good illustration, they’re not limiting content though. Just rewards.

Except reward is content. If the only reason I want to play right now is to get the rewards from something, then I no longer have a reason to play once I reach the daily limit.

If someone just wants to play WvW, then they no longer have any reason to play once they reach the daily map time limit.

I am sorry but that doesnt make sense.

Its a catch 22, all rewards in game be it skins / better gear, mini pets etc… are only useful as a way of enhancing the game experiance. If you’re playing just to get a reward then whats the point, once you’re gonna get it you have no longer any reason to play and if you dont play why get the reward in the first place, you’re never going to enjoy it.

milo.6942:

got to say, galen is really working overtime in here trying to turn analogies on their heads to justify his arguments. someone should get this guy an extra lollipop

No I am working overtime to try to explain a simple concept that people seem to have really a hard time to grasp.

The whole thing is pretty simple. Its 20 laurels per ascended gear piece because they want people to play 15 days to get said piece. Stands to reason that if they want 15 days work for a piece if they change it a different currency system they’ll still want 15 days of work. if a single item requires 15 days worth of gold how can it be possible to get those in 2 weekends? You cant in 2 weekends you just get 4 days worth of gold.
if they charge 15 days worth of karma how can you get them in 2 weekends? you can because in 2 weekends you’ll only earn 4 days worth of karma. If they go with 15 days worth of mats how can you get the necessary mats in 2 weekends? you cant cause you’ll only get 4 days of mats.

Yet some people keep coming up with bad analogies and instead of being condescending or insulting like some have been with me I patiently explain to them why I feel their analogy is wrong and correct it.

but thanks for the extra lollipop

Galen, the lollipop doesn’t cost a days wage because you earn things in addition to the lollipop.
@threadtopic The problem is that the only way to get a lollipop is through the extra that you can only get once a day, rather than being able to continue to work for more lollipops at a lower rate.

Smith.1826:

Why are you assuming that’s what I meant by ‘epic quest chain’? I’m not sure you know what you’re agreeing with.

More importantly, why do you keep quantifying everything by how much time – not skill or effort – it takes to complete? That does nothing good for the game.

Because there are two possibilities here. Ether a single quest chain for the whole set which is unfeasible (it would require 180 days to complete) or a quest chain per single piece that requires 15 days to complete. In either case you might want to respect in which case the quest has to be repeatable so you can get a set for your new spec.

The reason why its bound to time is because thats the real cost of loot. This is not something gw2 does, its in every game MMO or otherwise. Why are raids limited to once a week? why are drops control by RNG? Why is loot distributed between party members? Why does crafting require materials? etc.. etc.. everything gives a time cost to objects. In case of ascended gear we know exactly what that intended cost is… 15 days (20 laurels… you can get 40 laurels in 30 days so 15 days for 20). What ever method they decided to give out ascended gear in, it stands to reason it will have to keep that 15 day cost. I already explained why thats important, in a nutshell for some this is the last reward they’re interested in the game. Once they get it they have nothing else to work towards. Hence a quest that gives them their set in a few days wouldnt work.

Smith.1826:

If they’re not having fun doing it, they shouldn’t be doing it – and proceeding to ruin the game for themselves shouldn’t ruin the game for other players. There’s no subscription fee here, there’s no money to be made in determining how someone should spend their game time.

That, or maybe content that can be considered “dull” shouldn’t be “rewarded”.

And thats exactly what dailies do. They let you play whatever content you find fun and they reward you for playing it. If you go the quest route someone you enjoys WvW and hate PvE would be force to play content they hate. If you go the karma way people will be forced to do dynamic events and not everyone enjoys them. You can litterally play everything to get the dialy done so what system could possible better fit your definition of a game should not tell players what they have to play / dull content shouldnt be rewarded?

Navzar.2938:

Galen, the lollipop doesn’t cost a days wage because you earn things in addition to the lollipop.
@threadtopic The problem is that the only way to get a lollipop is through the extra that you can only get once a day, rather than being able to continue to work for more lollipops at a lower rate.

You’re right you do earn more stuff but it has no bearing on laurels because they’re different currencies.

Its like saying that if you earn 2g in a day, the value of it isnt really 2g because you also earned 8k karma. Thats incorrect, the karma has no bearing on gold.

they didnt price each piece 20 laurels by rolling a dice. Its a conscious amount to reflect a certain amount of time… 15 days. They let you earn other stuff simply because there is no reason to stop you from earning other stuff. anything you earn is not going to negatively effect the intended 15 days. Thats the beauty of it, because this is time gated they have no reason to have you spend all day on it because 30 minutes or 10 hrs you’re still going to get 1 laurel and in 15 days you’re still only going to afford 1 piece.

If they charged gold instead for example, in order to keep that same 15 day it would need to be 8hrs worth of gold per day (or what a full day play time would reasonable be since people play different amounts) … Laurels simply avoid the need of forcing players to farm a full day but that doesnt mean thakittens not worth the equivalent of a full day farming.

simply speaking if say in a full day someone who plays 8hrs earns say 4g then you’d need to charge 60g to keep the reward within 15 days. That leans that 20 laurels are essentially the same value as 60g even if a player took 120hrs to earn 60g and 10-20hrs to earn 20 laurels. So you could say a single laurel is the equivalent of a full day worth of farming.

Galen Grey.4709:

milo.6942:

got to say, galen is really working overtime in here trying to turn analogies on their heads to justify his arguments. someone should get this guy an extra lollipop

No I am working overtime to try to explain a simple concept that people seem to have really a hard time to grasp.

The whole thing is pretty simple. Its 20 laurels per ascended gear piece because they want people to play 15 days to get said piece. Stands to reason that if they want 15 days work for a piece if they change it a different currency system they’ll still want 15 days of work. if a single item requires 15 days worth of gold how can it be possible to get those in 2 weekends? You cant in 2 weekends you just get 4 days worth of gold.
if they charge 15 days worth of karma how can you get them in 2 weekends? you can because in 2 weekends you’ll only earn 4 days worth of karma. If they go with 15 days worth of mats how can you get the necessary mats in 2 weekends? you cant cause you’ll only get 4 days of mats.

Yet some people keep coming up with bad analogies and instead of being condescending or insulting like some have been with me I patiently explain to them why I feel their analogy is wrong and correct it.

but thanks for the extra lollipop

You truly are incapable of basic comprehension.

You simply cannot understand that there is more to life than free lollipops. In your world, lollipops exist as something that can only be found for free once a day and have no clue that they can be purchased.

Are you the type of person that needs your mommy to hold your hand as she hands out exactly one lollipop to you and your siblings every day?

Or, are you the type of person that thinks everyone should get a job, and buy a lollipop on their own time?

The fact that you can’t understand the difference here is astounding.

The only reason here to distribute the lollipops out at the rate they are is to limit the way they are obtained.

You seriously… it’s just… It’s unfathomable to me that you can’t understand this.

Time gated content, one laurel every 24 hours. A laurel is worth 24 hours. k, but you have to log on during specific time frames to earn them.

No time gated content, laurel is still worth 24 hours, but those 24 hours are spent whenever you choose to spend them.

There has already been countless people in the thread who very clearly understand that time gating content sets progress at a pace decided by Anet, while removing those constraints allows you to play at your own pace. Get it?

There is no beauty in this. It is a way of getting people to play the game every day by watering down what they can do on any given day. That isn’t even some complicated riddle or something, it’s a pretty obvious and transparent system that anyone over the age of 5 can understand.

Actually, Dog, you’re the one who can’t comprehend that there’s more to life than lollipops as your entire complaint is that you are limited to one lollipop a day.

Esplen.3940:

Actually, Dog, you’re the one who can’t comprehend that there’s more to life than lollipops as your entire complaint is that you are limited to one lollipop a day.

That doesn’t help your argument any.

If the hypothetical lollipop were actually worthless, you might have a point. However, it has value. So sure, there might be marshmallows, chocobits, and taffy in the world also, but one player will have those three currencies and another will have those three currencies PLUS lollipops.

It truly boggles my mind that anyone can consider GW2’s current incarnation of dailies to be a good system for any group of gamers.

I guess Esplen is the type of person that likes to get one lollipop from his mom rather than get a job and buy them.

Dog.1472:

I guess Esplen is the type of person that likes to get one lollipop from his mom rather than get a job and buy them.

Too bad gems can’t get you laurels, eh?

That would indeed remove the time gated factor. You now have the ability to purchase them with gold or money, allowing you to work for them when you can.

Also making the game become a pay-to-win game instead of a buy-to-play game.

Esplen.3940:

Also making the game become a pay-to-win game instead of a buy-to-play game.

it isn’t already?

Esplen.3940:

Also making the game become a pay-to-win game instead of a buy-to-play game.

But wait…you said…

Esplen.3940:

I feel like people forget how useful Ascended actually are… not really that useful at all. The difference in stats is so negligible that food provide more stats.

How could it be P2W if what you’re buying is…in your words…“not really that useful at all”?

You also can’t say anything purchased with gems is pay to win when gems can be purchased with gold. I tired to make that clear, but I guess saying it bluntly wasn’t enough.