Please stop once-per-day content
We have two very diametrically opposed groups here.
Group 1, those who think you should be rewarded for showing up everyday.
Group 2, those who think you should be rewarded for how much you play.
Now Group 1 are players who can set a little time aside everyday and would not like some BiS item that’s tied to playing time because they simply can’t play more. They like the idea of time gating because it means they won’t show up a week after an items introduction to find players with free time already having them.
Now Group 2 are players who feel playtime rather than attendance is more important and if some BiS item would require 50 hrs of playing time so be it. They can control how fast they can get the item, whether it’s 50 days or 5.
Actually there’s four groups split between total playtime (low/high) and frequency of playtime (daily/not daily). Either reward method, time gated or total playtime, will exclude two of these groups. The question is really how many are excluded by each reward method and by devs choosing time gated, does this mean fewer player are excluded than if the reward was based on total playtime?
Someone will chime in “then don’t have total playtime that high”, but then that brings in the argument about vertical progression. By slowing down acquisition of these items by either having minimum number of days (time gating) or by a large amount total playtime of some activity (say new content tied to the items) it blunts the fear that players have that the game is going vertical.
Also there’s daily population within the game. MMOs look better to players if there are other players always around, even if they aren’t looking to team. It’s an MMO we shouldn’t be the only “living soul” in the game. Time gating encourages attendance and attendance makes the game look better to new players. Plus the longer the player stays in the game, the greater the likelihood that a player will spend additional money on cash shop items.
Now the argument will be “but shouldn’t content drive attendance rather than a daily lollipop?” Sure but content, new content takes time. Lollipops are easy to do.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
(edited by Behellagh.1468)
We have two very diametrically opposed groups here.
Group 1, those who think you should be rewarded for showing up everyday.
Group 2, those who think you should be rewarded for how much you play.
Now Group 1 are players who can set a little time aside everyday and would not like some BiS item that’s tied to playing time because they simply can’t play more. They like the idea of time gating because it means they won’t show up a week after an items introduction to find players with free time already having them.
Now Group 2 are players who feel playtime rather than attendance is more important and if some BiS item would require 50 hrs of playing time so be it. They can control how fast they can get the item, whether it’s 50 days or 5.
Actually there’s four groups split between total playtime (low/high) and frequency of playtime (daily/not daily). Either reward method, time gated or total playtime, will exclude two of these groups. The question is really how many are excluded by each reward method and by devs choosing time gated, does this mean fewer player are excluded than if the reward was based on total playtime?
Someone will chime in “then don’t have total playtime that high”, but then that brings in the argument about vertical progression. By slowing down acquisition of these items by either having minimum number of days (time gating) or by a large amount total playtime of some activity (say new content tied to the items) it blunts the fear that players have that the game is going vertical.
Also there’s daily population within the game. MMOs look better to players if there are other players always around, even if they aren’t looking to team. It’s an MMO we shouldn’t be the only “living soul” in the game. Time gating encourages attendance and attendance makes the game look better to new players. Plus the longer the player stays in the game, the greater the likelihood that a player will spend additional money on cash shop items.
Now the argument will be “but shouldn’t content drive attendance rather than a daily lollipop?” Sure but content, new content takes time. Lollipops are easy to do.
Wow, finally an intelligent post. You could take some tips here Esplen.
What you say is correct. I would like to add though, that I do not care about group 1’s interest in getting the same rewards as people who play more time. As I’ve said before, I don’t think people who spend less time playing have earned the same reward as those who play more. Regardless of whether or not that sits well with you, I don’t see how anyone can consider that unfair. Unfriendly, sure, but not unfair. As in life, the more work you do, the more it pays off.
I believe an original design concept of the game was to remove vertical progression. They wanted it to be easy enough for every group to achieve the highest stats without making it a problem for anyone. Now, while that may have been true before, the addition of ascended trinkets, and soon to be armor, they have apparently changed their minds. Now, they have decided to instead give the finger to group 2 and make it unfair to them. This is where the problem lies and as you said, the question is whether or not ignoring this group will be better for the game overall. I still say no.
Forcing a player to play every day is not a good plan.
And I disagree completely with your last sentence. Vertical progression is not how to drive attendance. Content is most definitely the way to go. I definitely think the popular opinion here is that people play for content, not getting better gear alone. So limiting the way people can obtain it and ignoring group 2 is just needlessly frustrating players.
I believe I said in my first post here that content is what needs to motivate players to log in every day, not daily limitations. As others have said, dailies make the game feel like a job and a grind. It isn’t fun.
“Please, you can look down on people without having to be physically above them.
As an asura, I do this all the time.”
As an asura, I do this all the time.”
The things that are time gated that people seem to care about are:
- Laurels
- Charged Quartz
- The future crafting mats for ascended
I think Daily clearly favors the power progression of one group over the other, I don’t like that I even have to bring up that power progression is a significant reason for so much outcry as I felt it shouldn’t have been implemented or at least been done in a way that it’s existance was negligible, but it isn’t and it’s hear to stay apparantly in its current form.
Back on topic though, dailies favor the group of people that play the game daily. This means they leave other players in the dust when it comes to the rate they can progress thier character’s power. ANet wants to time gate progression obviously. Why? I don’t know, I would think people just want to get power progression over with so they don’t have to be concerned about being handicapped, but whatever. At least one group doesn’t want power progression time gated, ANet does. They’re the devs so unfortunately they can say, “too bad for you” or spin that message in whatever fluffy marketing way they want.
This all still leaves one group falling behind in the rate at which they progress, because this other group, while they do not play everyday, has people that still play a lot on the days they are able. So they want a means to catch up. I think this probably also applies to achievement progression in addition to power progression.
What it comes down to is people want a compromise to the way things are time gated. It sounds like redoing dailies to be weeklies and allowing people to obtain things like charged quartz, laurels, and ascended crafting items on the weekends or weekdays for some makes the most sense. Making laurels still possible to obtain incrementally 1 by 1 should stay as well. I know several people who don’t complete thier monthlies, but wish they could get partial rewards for the completion they have done. So the fear would be if things are done in a way that rewards are time gated weekly, people would progress on the reward completion, but not be able to finish all the way, which is why rewards should still be given out incrementally while progressing towards completion.
Of course this entire situation stems from ANet choosing to time gate rewards that pretty much everyone feel compelled to obtain. I am personally disappointed in ANet for artificially limiting the rate at which people can get to maximum power. This is not what I was expecting when thier last game naturally brought people to maximum power midway through the main storyline.
Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
Someone will chime in “then don’t have total playtime that high”, but then that brings in the argument about vertical progression. By slowing down acquisition of these items by either having minimum number of days (time gating) or by a large amount total playtime of some activity (say new content tied to the items) it blunts the fear that players have that the game is going vertical.
It’s exactly opposite. One of the main problems with vertical progression (besides it being a hamster treadmill where you stay in place even when moving forward) is how hard is to get the next tier. If it’s easy and fast, then the progression is easy to ignore (because catching up is not a great problem) (*). Consequently, if getting equipment takes a long time, then the vertical progression becomes more punishing for the players.
The white to exotic progression that was present in the game at launch did not cause a lot of protests from the horizontal progression people, because exotics were relatively easy to acquire. Consequently, ascended gear introduction resulted in huge uproar not only because it was something new (and changed the game philosophy), but also because it was costly and heavily restricted. I’m pretty sure that if it wasn’t significantly harder to get than exotics now, much more people would have taken Anet’s insistence that it was meant to be here from the very beginning at face value.
(*) For the sake of simplicity let’s ignore here the added problem of reacquiring appearance of the gear.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
And I disagree completely with your last sentence. Vertical progression is not how to drive attendance. Content is most definitely the way to go. I definitely think the popular opinion here is that people play for content, not getting better gear alone. So limiting the way people can obtain it and ignoring group 2 is just needlessly frustrating players.
I believe I said in my first post here that content is what needs to motivate players to log in every day, not daily limitations. As others have said, dailies make the game feel like a job and a grind. It isn’t fun.
I didn’t mean the last sentence to reflect vertical content, just content in general. I was restating your point on “shouldn’t a player want to play vs being forced to play” for a reward. We had dailies before they were tied to a vertical set of items.
As for the lollipop comment, I’m being practical from a Dev’s POV. It is easier to tie it to dailies (or RNG drop, like kite fortunes) than create some specific new content where they are only rewarded there (but you can run more than once daily). Of course I’m talking Laurels here.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
(edited by Behellagh.1468)
Also making the game become a pay-to-win game instead of a buy-to-play game.
But wait…you said…
I feel like people forget how useful Ascended actually are… not really that useful at all. The difference in stats is so negligible that food provide more stats.
How could it be P2W if what you’re buying is…in your words…“not really that useful at all”?
Laurels can get you more than just Ascended gear. It can get you crafting materials, boosters (that aren’t all available in the gem store), dyes, and more.
Don’t tell me you’re naive enough to believe that the complaints about dailies revolve around the acquisition of “…crafting materials, boosters (that aren’t all available in the gem store), dyes…”
Of course this entire situation stems from ANet choosing to time gate rewards that pretty much everyone feel compelled to obtain. I am personally disappointed in ANet for artificially limiting the rate at which people can get to maximum power. This is not what I was expecting when thier last game naturally brought people to maximum power midway through the main storyline.
Except I don’t feel compelled. That stat bonuses over slotted exotic accessories when compared to my current total. I don’t do fractals, I don’t do sPvP/tPvP and while I do WvW the extra stats will mean a hill of beans when I get ganked by a squad from another server or in the middle of a 50×50 clash of zergs.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
Of course this entire situation stems from ANet choosing to time gate rewards that pretty much everyone feel compelled to obtain. I am personally disappointed in ANet for artificially limiting the rate at which people can get to maximum power. This is not what I was expecting when thier last game naturally brought people to maximum power midway through the main storyline.
Except I don’t feel compelled. That stat bonuses over slotted exotic accessories when compared to my current total. I don’t do fractals, I don’t do sPvP/tPvP and while I do WvW the extra stats will mean a hill of beans when I get ganked by a squad from another server or in the middle of a 50×50 clash of zergs.
I wish I felt the same. Once ascended armor and weapons are released I wouldn’t be surprised if even more people are upset. The thing about trinkets is they only impact attributes. The thing about armor and weapons is they impact weapon damage, armor rating, and attributes.
Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
Someone will chime in “then don’t have total playtime that high”, but then that brings in the argument about vertical progression. By slowing down acquisition of these items by either having minimum number of days (time gating) or by a large amount total playtime of some activity (say new content tied to the items) it blunts the fear that players have that the game is going vertical.
It’s exactly opposite. One of the main problems with vertical progression (besides it being a hamster treadmill where you stay in place even when moving forward) is how hard is to get the next tier. If it’s easy and fast, then the progression is easy to ignore (because catching up is not a great problem) (*). Consequently, if getting equipment takes a long time, then the vertical progression becomes more punishing for the players.
The white to exotic progression that was present in the game at launch did not cause a lot of protests from the horizontal progression people, because exotics were relatively easy to acquire. Consequently, ascended gear introduction resulted in huge uproar not only because it was something new (and changed the game philosophy), but also because it was costly and heavily restricted. I’m pretty sure that if it wasn’t significantly harder to get than exotics now, much more people would have taken Anet’s insistence that it was meant to be here from the very beginning at face value.(*) For the sake of simplicity let’s ignore here the added problem of reacquiring appearance of the gear.
With it time gated everyone is annoyed over acquisition time. What they are not annoyed over are the few who can leap into the “stats” lead while it takes the rest weeks and months to catch up.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
With it time gated everyone is annoyed over acquisition time. What they are not annoyed over are the few who can leap into the “stats” lead while it takes the rest weeks and months to catch up.
Here’s a major issue I have. People in favor of time-gating have been saying two mutually exclusive things:
1) Ascended gear is not necessary, therefore laurels are not necessary, therefore daily laurel handouts are fine.
2) Without time-gating hardcores get laurels too fast, get ascended gear too fast, and leave everyone else in the dust power-wise.
Both of these cannot be true.
With it time gated everyone is annoyed over acquisition time. What they are not annoyed over are the few who can leap into the “stats” lead while it takes the rest weeks and months to catch up.
Here’s a major issue I have. People in favor of time-gating have been saying two mutually exclusive things:
1) Ascended gear is not necessary, therefore laurels are not necessary, therefore daily laurel handouts are fine.
2) Without time-gating hardcores get laurels too fast, get ascended gear too fast, and leave everyone else in the dust power-wise.
Both of these cannot be true.
They’re not, because if there wasn’t time-gating then there wouldn’t be Laurels since Laurels are the time-gate.
I hope that made sense, it did in my head as I was thinking about this again . . .
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
With it time gated everyone is annoyed over acquisition time. What they are not annoyed over are the few who can leap into the “stats” lead while it takes the rest weeks and months to catch up.
Here’s a major issue I have. People in favor of time-gating have been saying two mutually exclusive things:
1) Ascended gear is not necessary, therefore laurels are not necessary, therefore daily laurel handouts are fine.
2) Without time-gating hardcores get laurels too fast, get ascended gear too fast, and leave everyone else in the dust power-wise.
Both of these cannot be true.
They’re not, because if there wasn’t time-gating then there wouldn’t be Laurels since Laurels are the time-gate.
I hope that made sense, it did in my head as I was thinking about this again . . .
Yeah, I see what you’re saying.
However, I have seen the argument “without laurels ascended gear would be bought with gold or crafting mats, which hardcores would get faster”. This is usually a post or two after “why do you care so much about ascended gear anyway, it’s not necessary”.
With it time gated everyone is annoyed over acquisition time. What they are not annoyed over are the few who can leap into the “stats” lead while it takes the rest weeks and months to catch up.
Here’s a major issue I have. People in favor of time-gating have been saying two mutually exclusive things:
1) Ascended gear is not necessary, therefore laurels are not necessary, therefore daily laurel handouts are fine.
2) Without time-gating hardcores get laurels too fast, get ascended gear too fast, and leave everyone else in the dust power-wise.
Both of these cannot be true.
They’re not, because if there wasn’t time-gating then there wouldn’t be Laurels since Laurels are the time-gate.
I hope that made sense, it did in my head as I was thinking about this again . . .
Yeah, I see what you’re saying and I’m not accusing you personally of trying to claim both these things were true.
However, I have seen the argument “without laurels ascended gear would be bought with gold or crafting mats, which hardcores would get faster”. This is usually a post or two after “why do you care so much about ascended gear anyway, it’s not necessary”.
I have used both arguments at once before, but I can explain the mental contortions to try to use them:
1 – “Without Laurel time-gates, Ascended would be bought with other means and it’s highly likely more active players (or richer ones) could purchase them outright.” Personally? If it was Karma available, I’d have them in six hours after discovering where they were purchasable. If it was Gold, six weeks. Materials? I’d just write them off unless I have excess gold. (Note: I have written off the back pieces even though I really really want a quiver.)
2 – “Why would you want it anyway, it’s not as big as you think.” Because it’s not. Right now, people in less than Rares are not at a significant disadvantage in PvE. In WvW it tends less towards 1v1 fights and thus the comparison of one person versus another is kind of silly, in my opinion. If PvE was changed so that larger amounts could only be completed if you had gear upwards of Rare (Exotic/Ascended only) then people would (rightfully) be kitten ed at the gear-gating. If WvW was altered that 1v1 was more useful, it would still wind up Zerg vs Zerg anyway due to the meta.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
With it time gated everyone is annoyed over acquisition time. What they are not annoyed over are the few who can leap into the “stats” lead while it takes the rest weeks and months to catch up.
Here’s a major issue I have. People in favor of time-gating have been saying two mutually exclusive things:
1) Ascended gear is not necessary, therefore laurels are not necessary, therefore daily laurel handouts are fine.
2) Without time-gating hardcores get laurels too fast, get ascended gear too fast, and leave everyone else in the dust power-wise.
Both of these cannot be true.
They’re not, because if there wasn’t time-gating then there wouldn’t be Laurels since Laurels are the time-gate.
I hope that made sense, it did in my head as I was thinking about this again . . .
Yeah, I see what you’re saying and I’m not accusing you personally of trying to claim both these things were true.
However, I have seen the argument “without laurels ascended gear would be bought with gold or crafting mats, which hardcores would get faster”. This is usually a post or two after “why do you care so much about ascended gear anyway, it’s not necessary”.
I have used both arguments at once before, but I can explain the mental contortions to try to use them:
1 – “Without Laurel time-gates, Ascended would be bought with other means and it’s highly likely more active players (or richer ones) could purchase them outright.” Personally? If it was Karma available, I’d have them in six hours after discovering where they were purchasable. If it was Gold, six weeks. Materials? I’d just write them off unless I have excess gold. (Note: I have written off the back pieces even though I really really want a quiver.)
2 – “Why would you want it anyway, it’s not as big as you think.” Because it’s not. Right now, people in less than Rares are not at a significant disadvantage in PvE. In WvW it tends less towards 1v1 fights and thus the comparison of one person versus another is kind of silly, in my opinion. If PvE was changed so that larger amounts could only be completed if you had gear upwards of Rare (Exotic/Ascended only) then people would (rightfully) be kitten ed at the gear-gating. If WvW was altered that 1v1 was more useful, it would still wind up Zerg vs Zerg anyway due to the meta.
Okay, so then the question becomes: If ascended gear is not necessary, what’s the harm in someone getting a piece in 6 hours?
Also making the game become a pay-to-win game instead of a buy-to-play game.
But wait…you said…
I feel like people forget how useful Ascended actually are… not really that useful at all. The difference in stats is so negligible that food provide more stats.
How could it be P2W if what you’re buying is…in your words…“not really that useful at all”?
Laurels can get you more than just Ascended gear. It can get you crafting materials, boosters (that aren’t all available in the gem store), dyes, and more.
Don’t tell me you’re naive enough to believe that the complaints about dailies revolve around the acquisition of “…crafting materials, boosters (that aren’t all available in the gem store), dyes…”
I’m not the one making the complaints. I’m not the one pointing fingers. I’m not the one bashing everyones head for not agreeing with them. I have seen complaints of all of those, and if you continue to say that “it’s the only way to get Ascended” then you need to pay attention, because Ascended will become CRAFTABLE and you know what Jewelcrafters craft? They craft TRINKETS.
Wow, finally an intelligent post. You could take some tips here Esplen.
I do not care about group 1’s interest in getting the same rewards as people who play more time.
Forcing a player to play every day is not a good plan.
I believe I said in my first post here that content is what needs to motivate players to log in every day, not daily limitations. As others have said, dailies make the game feel like a job and a grind. It isn’t fun.
So what you’re saying is that it’s alright to be a bigot as long as I’m in agreement with your opinions?
Nobody is forcing you to login. Nobody is forcing you to do dailies. Nobody is making you grind.
People get rewarded for doing what they want. People get rewarded for playing how they want. You just aren’t getting the exact reward you want. You just aren’t getting rewarded for logging for one minute (which isn’t enough time to do anything, bar looting the trading post or gathering a node).
THE MAIN THING THAT PEOPLE DO NOT SEE IS THAT NOT HAVING ASCENDED WILL NOT GET YOU KICKED OUT OF A GUILD/DUNGEON/PARTY/WVW/ETC. IT’S NOT A REQUISITE FOR THE GAME. IT’S AN OPTIONAL ENDGAME EXPERIENCE, JUST LIKE LEGENDARIES.
Also making the game become a pay-to-win game instead of a buy-to-play game.
But wait…you said…
I feel like people forget how useful Ascended actually are… not really that useful at all. The difference in stats is so negligible that food provide more stats.
How could it be P2W if what you’re buying is…in your words…“not really that useful at all”?
Laurels can get you more than just Ascended gear. It can get you crafting materials, boosters (that aren’t all available in the gem store), dyes, and more.
Don’t tell me you’re naive enough to believe that the complaints about dailies revolve around the acquisition of “…crafting materials, boosters (that aren’t all available in the gem store), dyes…”
I’m not the one making the complaints. I’m not the one pointing fingers. I’m not the one bashing everyones head for not agreeing with them. I have seen complaints of all of those, and if you continue to say that “it’s the only way to get Ascended” then you need to pay attention, because Ascended will become CRAFTABLE and you know what Jewelcrafters craft? They craft TRINKETS.
Calm down. Stay in the present. Don’t muddy the waters with “this will happen in a few months”. We’re talking how it is right now.
If you can find me a post or thread where someone claims dailies are unfair because of “crafting materials, boosters (that aren’t all available in the gem store), dyes” then I’ll concede you have a point.
Also making the game become a pay-to-win game instead of a buy-to-play game.
But wait…you said…
I feel like people forget how useful Ascended actually are… not really that useful at all. The difference in stats is so negligible that food provide more stats.
How could it be P2W if what you’re buying is…in your words…“not really that useful at all”?
Laurels can get you more than just Ascended gear. It can get you crafting materials, boosters (that aren’t all available in the gem store), dyes, and more.
Don’t tell me you’re naive enough to believe that the complaints about dailies revolve around the acquisition of “…crafting materials, boosters (that aren’t all available in the gem store), dyes…”
I’m not the one making the complaints. I’m not the one pointing fingers. I’m not the one bashing everyones head for not agreeing with them. I have seen complaints of all of those, and if you continue to say that “it’s the only way to get Ascended” then you need to pay attention, because Ascended will become CRAFTABLE and you know what Jewelcrafters craft? They craft TRINKETS.
Calm down. Stay in the present. Don’t muddy the waters with “this will happen in a few months”. We’re talking how it is right now.
If you can find me a post or thread where someone claims dailies are unfair because of “crafting materials, boosters (that aren’t all available in the gem store), dyes” then I’ll concede you have a point.
I’ll find you that if you can answer me:
Also making the game become a pay-to-win game instead of a buy-to-play game.
it isn’t already?
In what ways is it a P2W game?
I’ll find you that if you can answer me:
Also making the game become a pay-to-win game instead of a buy-to-play game.
it isn’t already?
In what ways is it a P2W game?
That’s not my quote. I never claimed it was a P2W game.
I’ll find you that if you can answer me:
Also making the game become a pay-to-win game instead of a buy-to-play game.
it isn’t already?
In what ways is it a P2W game?
That’s not my quote. I never claimed it was a P2W game.
And neither was my quote about players complaining about laurels. I never complained about laurels.
I’ll find you that if you can answer me:
Also making the game become a pay-to-win game instead of a buy-to-play game.
it isn’t already?
In what ways is it a P2W game?
That’s not my quote. I never claimed it was a P2W game.
And neither was my quote about players complaining about laurels. I never complained about laurels.
I think you’re confusing yourself.
I’ll find you that if you can answer me:
Also making the game become a pay-to-win game instead of a buy-to-play game.
it isn’t already?
In what ways is it a P2W game?
That’s not my quote. I never claimed it was a P2W game.
And neither was my quote about players complaining about laurels. I never complained about laurels.
I think you’re confusing yourself.
Really? Then when and where did I complain about laurels?
I’ll find you that if you can answer me:
Also making the game become a pay-to-win game instead of a buy-to-play game.
it isn’t already?
In what ways is it a P2W game?
That’s not my quote. I never claimed it was a P2W game.
And neither was my quote about players complaining about laurels. I never complained about laurels.
I think you’re confusing yourself.
Really? Then when and where did I complain about laurels?
Where did I say you complained about them?
I’ll find you that if you can answer me:
Also making the game become a pay-to-win game instead of a buy-to-play game.
it isn’t already?
In what ways is it a P2W game?
That’s not my quote. I never claimed it was a P2W game.
And neither was my quote about players complaining about laurels. I never complained about laurels.
I think you’re confusing yourself.
Really? Then when and where did I complain about laurels?
Where did I say you complained about them?
Then explain how I’m confusing myself. Because that’s the only context I got out of “you’re confusing yourself.”
I’ll find you that if you can answer me:
Also making the game become a pay-to-win game instead of a buy-to-play game.
it isn’t already?
In what ways is it a P2W game?
That’s not my quote. I never claimed it was a P2W game.
And neither was my quote about players complaining about laurels. I never complained about laurels.
I think you’re confusing yourself.
Really? Then when and where did I complain about laurels?
Where did I say you complained about them?
Then explain how I’m confusing myself. Because that’s the only context I got out of “you’re confusing yourself.”
You said you would verify a specious claim you made earlier if I answered a question you asked of another poster. I pointed out that I was not that poster and didn’t hold true his claims. You responded with an assertion that I do not question, but does not relate to the specious claim I asked you to verify.
I’ll find you that if you can answer me:
Also making the game become a pay-to-win game instead of a buy-to-play game.
it isn’t already?
In what ways is it a P2W game?
That’s not my quote. I never claimed it was a P2W game.
And neither was my quote about players complaining about laurels. I never complained about laurels.
I think you’re confusing yourself.
Really? Then when and where did I complain about laurels?
Where did I say you complained about them?
Then explain how I’m confusing myself. Because that’s the only context I got out of “you’re confusing yourself.”
You said you would verify a specious claim you made earlier if I answered a question you asked of another poster. I pointed out that I was not that poster and didn’t hold true his claims. You responded with an assertion that I do not question, but does not relate to the specious claim I asked you to verify.
Quotes please? I’m too tired right now to go back and search through my own posts to verify a claim you’re making.
I’ll find you that if you can answer me:
Also making the game become a pay-to-win game instead of a buy-to-play game.
it isn’t already?
In what ways is it a P2W game?
That’s not my quote. I never claimed it was a P2W game.
And neither was my quote about players complaining about laurels. I never complained about laurels.
I think you’re confusing yourself.
Really? Then when and where did I complain about laurels?
Where did I say you complained about them?
Then explain how I’m confusing myself. Because that’s the only context I got out of “you’re confusing yourself.”
You said you would verify a specious claim you made earlier if I answered a question you asked of another poster. I pointed out that I was not that poster and didn’t hold true his claims. You responded with an assertion that I do not question, but does not relate to the specious claim I asked you to verify.
Quotes please? I’m too tired right now to go back and search through my own posts to verify a claim you’re making.
Sigh. I didn’t make the claim. You did. I asked you to verify it.
In essence, you tried to state that if ascended gear was not purchasable through laurels, people would still complain about laurels as currency. I asked if you would provide some posts the show complaints about laurels stemming from the other purchasable items, not ascended gear.
(edited by NewTrain.7549)
I’ll find you that if you can answer me:
Also making the game become a pay-to-win game instead of a buy-to-play game.
it isn’t already?
In what ways is it a P2W game?
That’s not my quote. I never claimed it was a P2W game.
And neither was my quote about players complaining about laurels. I never complained about laurels.
I think you’re confusing yourself.
Really? Then when and where did I complain about laurels?
Where did I say you complained about them?
Then explain how I’m confusing myself. Because that’s the only context I got out of “you’re confusing yourself.”
You said you would verify a specious claim you made earlier if I answered a question you asked of another poster. I pointed out that I was not that poster and didn’t hold true his claims. You responded with an assertion that I do not question, but does not relate to the specious claim I asked you to verify.
Quotes please? I’m too tired right now to go back and search through my own posts to verify a claim you’re making.
Sigh. I didn’t make the claim. You did. I asked you to verify it.
In essence, you tried to state that if ascended gear was not purchasable through laurels, people would still complain about laurels as currency. I asked if you would provide some posts the show complaints about laurels stemming from the other purchasable items, not ascended gear.
And one more time:
- What claim did I make?
- Give me MY WORDS (aka a quote).
Why am I asking this? Because I don’t post in just one thread in the existence of the forum, I don’t remember everything I’ve posted (but I do know the gist of what I post, as I do know enough about myself). If you are claiming that I have claimed something which seems off, you’re either missing the point (or context) or you’re imagining things.
So please, give me a quote.
I’ll find you that if you can answer me:
Also making the game become a pay-to-win game instead of a buy-to-play game.
it isn’t already?
In what ways is it a P2W game?
That’s not my quote. I never claimed it was a P2W game.
And neither was my quote about players complaining about laurels. I never complained about laurels.
I think you’re confusing yourself.
Really? Then when and where did I complain about laurels?
Where did I say you complained about them?
Then explain how I’m confusing myself. Because that’s the only context I got out of “you’re confusing yourself.”
You said you would verify a specious claim you made earlier if I answered a question you asked of another poster. I pointed out that I was not that poster and didn’t hold true his claims. You responded with an assertion that I do not question, but does not relate to the specious claim I asked you to verify.
Quotes please? I’m too tired right now to go back and search through my own posts to verify a claim you’re making.
Sigh. I didn’t make the claim. You did. I asked you to verify it.
In essence, you tried to state that if ascended gear was not purchasable through laurels, people would still complain about laurels as currency. I asked if you would provide some posts the show complaints about laurels stemming from the other purchasable items, not ascended gear.
And one more time:
- What claim did I make?
- Give me MY WORDS (aka a quote).
Why am I asking this? Because I don’t post in just one thread in the existence of the forum, I don’t remember everything I’ve posted (but I do know the gist of what I post, as I do know enough about myself). If you are claiming that I have claimed something which seems off, you’re either missing the point (or context) or you’re imagining things.
So please, give me a quote.
Here is the conversation in context. Afterwards is when you started saying how you were not the one complaining.
Also making the game become a pay-to-win game instead of a buy-to-play game.
But wait…you said…
I feel like people forget how useful Ascended actually are… not really that useful at all. The difference in stats is so negligible that food provide more stats.
How could it be P2W if what you’re buying is…in your words…“not really that useful at all”?
Laurels can get you more than just Ascended gear. It can get you crafting materials, boosters (that aren’t all available in the gem store), dyes, and more.
Don’t tell me you’re naive enough to believe that the complaints about dailies revolve around the acquisition of “…crafting materials, boosters (that aren’t all available in the gem store), dyes…”
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd so your point being? The very first quote is taken out of context and the rest is unflattering with the first out of context.
Bablam, taken out of context:
the complaints about dailies revolve around the acquisition of “…crafting materials, boosters (that aren’t all available in the gem store), dyes…”
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd so your point being? The very first quote is taken out of context and the rest is unflattering with the first out of context.
Explain how the first quote is out of context. Someone had thrown out the idea of ascended items being purchasable with gems and what’s quoted above was your response in its entirety.
Furthermore, how does chopping my quote up further this discussion at all? It certainly doesn’t help whatever point you were trying to make.
My point was to do exactly what you asked of me. Provide you with your own words. If you’d please, maybe verify the claim that it’s not ascended items that are causing the laurel complaints, but the other items that can be purchased.
(edited by NewTrain.7549)
I’m not the one making the complaints. I’m not the one pointing fingers. I’m not the one bashing everyones head for not agreeing with them. I have seen complaints of all of those, and if you continue to say that “it’s the only way to get Ascended” then you need to pay attention, because Ascended will become CRAFTABLE and you know what Jewelcrafters craft? They craft TRINKETS.
Even though Ascended gear will be craftable, it is time gated at once per day. See the blog post from the 16th
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/
Prices are probably going to be pretty absurd. They might even be more expensive than the current legendaries on the market since thier stats are higher, even though it wouldn’t make sense, because they are much easier to obtain (hopefully).
Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
Context:
Being able to purchase Laurels with Gems.
Regardless of being able to purchase Gems with Gold, this is still a Pay-to-Win method of attaining Laurels, due to the fact that paying real money is paying for convenience.
One might argue that in a game such as League of Legends or APB: Reloaded or Blacklight: Retribution, paying doesn’t give you a large advantage since you can get all those items with in-game currency, but they do give you an advantage (albeit in League of Legends it’s not as obvious).
In League of Legends, if you were to purchase Champions with real money, then you can use your ingame money on other things, such as more variety in Runes and Runepages (which does give you an advantage when playing seriously, because more variety means you can pull off more narrow setups). Note that in this example, you are paying for the convenience of not having to grind to unlock things.
In APB: Reloaded and Blackright: Retribution, they are both blatantly Pay-to-Win with the paid items being better than (and much, much harder to obtain) the ingame money equivalents. At least, that was when I had last played.
If you want more examples, I can continue on to list games such as Diablo 2 and 3 (yes 3 has degenerated into a P2W game), Maplestory, Ragnarok Online, and the list goes on, you can pretty much name any F2P game and it will have a P2W model tied to it.
And, while you can make the argument that GW2 has soft boosters to become a P2W model (yes, the boosters in the gemstore are soft boosts, along with the repair cannisters and the revive orbs), they don’t give you an unfair advantage which allows you to progress the game easier than players who don’t have them (bar clutch revive orbs, which, if you were going to be able to use in such a way, would mean that you’ve most likely gotten at least 5 from playing the game in it’s natural course).
There is really no point in continuing to respond to Esplen guys. He has already tried to derail the thread with off topic nonsense and he has already proven in the past that he isn’t capable of logical thinking.
I suspect he is in fact a master ruseman.
+ loads of respect for Behellagh though. Different opinions or not, he/she clearly understands what the discussion is about and did a fantastic job explaining it.
“Please, you can look down on people without having to be physically above them.
As an asura, I do this all the time.”
As an asura, I do this all the time.”
(edited by Dog.1472)
There is really no point in continuing to respond to Esplen guys. He has already tried to derail the thread with off topic nonsense and as he has already proven in the past that he isn’t capable of logical thinking.
I suspect he is in fact a master ruseman.
+ loads of respect for Behellagh though. Different opinions or not, he/she clearly understands what the discussion is about and did a fantastic job explaining it.
Yes, that is a very great way to post in the forums: Anyone who doesn’t agree with me or have a point that benefits my side isn’t capable of logical thinking.
That reminds me of something I learned in literature, what was it… Oh, that’s right: ad hominem
@dog
are you completely incapable of discussing something without being offensive? Is it really that hard for you to focus on arguments rather then people saying them?
You keeping saying “There has already been countless people in the thread who very clearly understand that time gating content sets progress at a pace decided by Anet, while removing those constraints allows you to play at your own pace. Get it?” You’re either not understanding that if they remove the time-gate they’re going to replace it with an equivalent requirement or you’re not realizing that 15 days of farming require you to log in and play 15 full days one day after the other if you want to get what you’re after in 15 days.
Either way your statement is the opposite of reality. Dailies are allowing you to get ascended gear at your own pace, the alternatives will not.
For the billiont time if they feel a single ascended piece has to last at least 15 days dropping the time gate will not make that requirement magically disappear. They also cant make those 15 days apply just to casuals and ignore hardcores because the hardcores are precisely who they need those 15 days for. So dropping that time-gate will leave you with something like 8hrs of farming at least per day… maybe more. So tell me how will require you to do 8hrs of farming everyday for 15 days let you play at your own pace more then just essentially show up and play what you wish? How is requiring you to farm for 120hrs to get a single piece forcing you to log on every day any less if you want to get this reward in 15 days because getting it in 20 or 30 or 40 days seems to be a big tragedy?
From where I am standing it will not, not even close. It will just make it so its impossible to get in 15 days for all but a very few people who can spend all day playing. Well some of us have jobs and while we can afford a couple of hours per day we could never afford 8hrs per day.
There is really no point in continuing to respond to Esplen guys. He has already tried to derail the thread with off topic nonsense and as he has already proven in the past that he isn’t capable of logical thinking.
I suspect he is in fact a master ruseman.
+ loads of respect for Behellagh though. Different opinions or not, he/she clearly understands what the discussion is about and did a fantastic job explaining it.
Yes, that is a very great way to post in the forums: Anyone who doesn’t agree with me or have a point that benefits my side isn’t capable of logical thinking.
That reminds me of something I learned in literature, what was it… Oh, that’s right: ad hominem
+ loads of respect for Behellagh though. Different opinions or not, he/she clearly understands what the discussion is about and did a fantastic job explaining it.
“Please, you can look down on people without having to be physically above them.
As an asura, I do this all the time.”
As an asura, I do this all the time.”
Context:
Being able to purchase Laurels with Gems.Regardless of being able to purchase Gems with Gold, this is still a Pay-to-Win method of attaining Laurels, due to the fact that paying real money is paying for convenience.
I think we have very different definitions of win. To me convenience does not equate to winning. Heck, I’d jest that someone using real money to buy laurels is actually losing.
To be honest, I’m not concerned with the other games you listed, because we’re not discussing them. We’re discussing GW2.
(edited by NewTrain.7549)
@dog part 2…
I feel perhaps its better to visit what it means to get something at your own pace rather then a dictated pace. Asking for something like 8 hrs of farming per day is a dictate pace. I have to dedicate 8hrs in a specific task in a stated time frame or fall behind. (its not a big deal for me but it is for you) The chances of finding 8hrs to dedicate to this are none there is no way the majority of us can find 8hrs everyday to farm.
How about dailies? how do they help here?
Dailies are just asking you to play the game for at least 30 minutes. If I am going to play the game thats no problem. If today I can play just 4hrs … no problem thats enough to meet my daily. If today I can only play 2hrs, no problem you still meet your quota. Even if today I really shouldnt have time to play I can still pop in 30 minutes and finish the daily quota (its not required, there is really no need to do it 1 more day isnt going to change anything but if you feel strongly you can).
I have no idea how you feel being forced to farm for 8hrs per day is allowing you to play at your pace where as just play whatever you like for as little as 30 minutes is not. To me seems like the opposite is true.
Context:
Being able to purchase Laurels with Gems.Regardless of being able to purchase Gems with Gold, this is still a Pay-to-Win method of attaining Laurels, due to the fact that paying real money is paying for convenience.
I think we have very different definitions of win. To me convenience does not equate to winning. Heck, I’d jest that someone using real money to buy laurels is actually losing.
To be honest, I’m not concerned with the other games you listed, because we’re not discussing them. We’re discussing GW2.
And my point was that GW2 isn’t P2W. My point was that the closest you’ll get to calling GW2 P2W is the soft-boosts which don’t give you a notable boost in the first place.
P2W doesn’t necessarily mean: “I pay $10, I’m stronger than you.”, but there is no real clear-cut definition. If you go ahead and google Pay to Win then you’ll receive numerous responses that get summed up with something along the lines of:
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
And while that quote was taken from urbandictionary, it summed up the P2W experience far better (in a single statement) than all the other posts I had quickly browsed through.
Allowing players to purchase Laurels with real money would, in fact, let players buy better gear and allow them to make better items than everyone else at a faster rate.
However, on the flip side, it wouldn’t necessarily make the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying, but that’s not to say that it would create a lot of complaint and drive a lot of people from the game, which is what developers do not want. (A lot of players, especially players from GW1, play GW2 because it’s ridiculously hard and inefficient to try and be P2W. Why pay $50 to hit level 80 when you can just work for it? Plus, if you level up normally, you get experience with your profession as opposed to just having an 80 of that profession and sucking majorly.)
Once a day content is rubbish imo, Anet say they don’t want to tell people how to play then they make dragons and dungeons useless after the first run of the day.If I want to go do another dungeon or path I will but making us do other paths is exactly what Anet say they want to avoid…..I have gone from hard core player to casual if that. I’m waiting for Anet to start doing what the keep preaching. If I want to do dragons a lot I should be rewarded for them. As usual Anet are burning the players to get at the gold sellers and botters.
@dog
Either way your statement is the opposite of reality. Dailies are allowing you to get ascended gear at your own pace, the alternatives will not.
For the billiont time if they feel a single ascended piece has to last at least 15 days dropping the time gate will not make that requirement magically disappear. They also cant make those 15 days apply just to casuals and ignore hardcores because the hardcores are precisely who they need those 15 days for. So dropping that time-gate will leave you with something like 8hrs of farming at least per day… maybe more. So tell me how will require you to do 8hrs of farming everyday for 15 days let you play at your own pace more then just essentially show up and play what you wish? How is requiring you to farm for 120hrs to get a single piece forcing you to log on every day any less if you want to get this reward in 15 days because getting it in 20 or 30 or 40 days seems to be a big tragedy?
From where I am standing it will not, not even close. It will just make it so its impossible to get in 15 days for all but a very few people who can spend all day playing. Well some of us have jobs and while we can afford a couple of hours per day we could never afford 8hrs per day.
You still… don’t understand, but I think you’re close to it. When did I say farming requirements magically disappear? I didn’t.
So okay, you say they want to make something take a minimum of 15 days to get something. That’s the equivalent of 360 hours.
Anet has decided that this item is going to take around 360 hours of farming for mats/gold/whatever and it won’t be time gated.
Now, I can spend 3 hours today farming for it.
Then I can spend 12 hours the next day farming for it.
Then I take the next day off.
Then I spend 4 hours farming for it.
My progress is 19 hours so far. Cool. This is what setting your own pace and progressing on your time is. This is what the wonderful world of no time gated restrictions is. I can choose to spend however much time farming for it, whenever I want to and my progress will be determined by the amount of time I spend working towards my goal. Just think legendaries since you insist on using example with long time frames.
Now we have time gated content.
I can either make 24 hours of progress for logging in today.
Or, I can make 0 hours of progress today.
I do not get to decide how much time I want to spend towards getting the item. I do not get to choose when I get to make any different amount of progress. I have to log in, get a set amount of progress, and that’s it. This removes the existence of the rest of the hours in a day and removes the difference between people who want to put forth more effort towards something, or less.
Read this
We have two very diametrically opposed groups here.
Group 1, those who think you should be rewarded for showing up everyday.
Group 2, those who think you should be rewarded for how much you play.
Now Group 1 are players who can set a little time aside everyday and would not like some BiS item that’s tied to playing time because they simply can’t play more. They like the idea of time gating because it means they won’t show up a week after an items introduction to find players with free time already having them.
Now Group 2 are players who feel playtime rather than attendance is more important and if some BiS item would require 50 hrs of playing time so be it. They can control how fast they can get the item, whether it’s 50 days or 5.
It still boggles my mind that you don’t understand this. Just when I think an actual discussion about what the real issue here is can start, you go back 10 spaces every time.
“Please, you can look down on people without having to be physically above them.
As an asura, I do this all the time.”
As an asura, I do this all the time.”
Context:
Being able to purchase Laurels with Gems.Regardless of being able to purchase Gems with Gold, this is still a Pay-to-Win method of attaining Laurels, due to the fact that paying real money is paying for convenience.
I think we have very different definitions of win. To me convenience does not equate to winning. Heck, I’d jest that someone using real money to buy laurels is actually losing.
To be honest, I’m not concerned with the other games you listed, because we’re not discussing them. We’re discussing GW2.
And my point was that GW2 isn’t P2W. My point was that the closest you’ll get to calling GW2 P2W is the soft-boosts which don’t give you a notable boost in the first place.
P2W doesn’t necessarily mean: “I pay $10, I’m stronger than you.”, but there is no real clear-cut definition. If you go ahead and google Pay to Win then you’ll receive numerous responses that get summed up with something along the lines of:
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
And while that quote was taken from urbandictionary, it summed up the P2W experience far better (in a single statement) than all the other posts I had quickly browsed through.
Allowing players to purchase Laurels with real money would, in fact, let players buy better gear and allow them to make better items than everyone else at a faster rate.
However, on the flip side, it wouldn’t necessarily make the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying, but that’s not to say that it would create a lot of complaint and drive a lot of people from the game, which is what developers do not want. (A lot of players, especially players from GW1, play GW2 because it’s ridiculously hard and inefficient to try and be P2W. Why pay $50 to hit level 80 when you can just work for it? Plus, if you level up normally, you get experience with your profession as opposed to just having an 80 of that profession and sucking majorly.)
That’s all well and good, and we’re in agreement, but it’s pretty far off topic now isn’t it?
We were discussing the acquisition of ascended gear through time-gated laurels. You implied that ascended gear wasn’t the chief cause of complaints against time-gated laurels. I asked you to find me some posts showing this. I’m still waiting on that.
The P2W argument is actually quite valid. If they switch on to gold / mats they’ll have to make it really steep to ensure it takes 15 days minimum to everyone. Then people will feel this is just a ploy to get them to buy gems and convert them to gold. That will surely lead to a p2w feelings by people who will then feel its not feasible to get ascended armor without taking out your credit card.
One more reason why I feel the current system is a better idea.
With it time gated everyone is annoyed over acquisition time. What they are not annoyed over are the few who can leap into the “stats” lead while it takes the rest weeks and months to catch up.
Here’s a major issue I have. People in favor of time-gating have been saying two mutually exclusive things:
1) Ascended gear is not necessary, therefore laurels are not necessary, therefore daily laurel handouts are fine.
2) Without time-gating hardcores get laurels too fast, get ascended gear too fast, and leave everyone else in the dust power-wise.
Both of these cannot be true.
It all depends if you believe they are significantly better or not.
If you don’t think the items are significantly better, you simply don’t care. Gate it, don’t gate it, it doesn’t affect me directly other than how it affects the general population in the game. This group doesn’t understand what the big deal is.
If you think they are significantly better, then you care about frequency of play time. If you can play frequently but not a lot of hours, then time gating favors you. If you can play a lot but not frequently you hate time gating (along with the WANT NOW crowd).
It’s my contention that the “can play frequently but not many hours” are the majority of players in an MMO. These players stay around for longer in a game than those who can play a lot of hours, “beat the game” in their mind and then move on to the next MMO, only coming back when new content is added for the day or two it takes them to finish and then they are gone again. Of those two groups, which group as a whole will spend more cash in the shop? Which group makes the world seem more alive? That ultimately determines who the devs believe should be catered to if a choice has to be made.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
@Dog. I am happy you made that example cause maybe you’re see what i mean if I use your own numbers.
So you state 15 days is equal to 360hrs thats a bit excessive but it doesnt change things just their relativity.
So in your example spans 4 days:
Now, I can spend 3 hours today farming for it.
Then I can spend 12 hours the next day farming for it.
Then I take the next day off.
Then I spend 4 hours farming for it.
out of the 360hrs you did 19 hrs progress. That means you didnt even do a full day progress. Had this been using the laurel system you’d have done 3 days progress.
Base on your example I could have no logged on once and made the same exact progress you did logging on 3 days out of 4. But thats not the real point either No one is expecting rewards for free, this isnt about that… however in your example those 19hrs were spent running specific content, the most profitable dungeon or farming the mob that drops whatever you need. with the daily those 19 hrs where spent playing whatever I want to play be it WvW, PvE, Dungeons, Crafting, whatever…
So let me ask you this.. Whats the real advantage your system gives players? Cause all I can see is disadvantages…
It will take you longer to get the reward… based on your progression in these 4 days if you had to repeat that pattern it would take you 76 days to get a single ascended piece while if that same pattern was repeated using the daily it would take you 20 days to get a single piece (instead of 15 days)
With your system I have to spend 360 hrs farming the same content, with the dailies I just have to spend a minimum of 10hrs playing whatever I enjoy doing for a single piece.
With your system some one who cannot afford to play long stretchs like 12hrs in one day but can only play 2 – 4hrs max will take 120 days (based on your pattern of 2,0,4,4 hrs played over 4 days) to get a single piece. With the current system that play will still get his piece in 20 days.
Really what tangible thing would we gain by switching systems?
The P2W argument is actually quite valid. If they switch on to gold / mats they’ll have to make it really steep to ensure it takes 15 days minimum to everyone. Then people will feel this is just a ploy to get them to buy gems and convert them to gold. That will surely lead to a p2w feelings by people who will then feel its not feasible to get ascended armor without taking out your credit card.
One more reason why I feel the current system is a better idea.
Why are we ensuring an arbitrary 15 days minimum? I must have missed that part of the conversation.
It all depends if you believe they are significantly better or not.
If you don’t think the items are significantly better, you simply don’t care. Gate it, don’t gate it, it doesn’t affect me directly other than how it affects the general population in the game. This group doesn’t understand what the big deal is.
If you think they are significantly better, then you care about frequency of play time. If you can play frequently but not a lot of hours, then time gating favors you. If you can play a lot but not frequently you hate time gating (along with the WANT NOW crowd).
It’s my contention that the “can play frequently but not many hours” are the majority of players in an MMO. These players stay around for longer in a game than those who can play a lot of hours, “beat the game” in their mind and then move on to the next MMO, only coming back when new content is added for the day or two it takes them to finish and then they are gone again. Of those two groups, which group as a whole will spend more cash in the shop? Which group makes the world seem more alive? That ultimately determines who the devs believe should be catered to if a choice has to be made.
My point was simply that some defenders of the current system believe both to be true, when that’s not possible.
(edited by NewTrain.7549)
Okay, so then the question becomes: If ascended gear is not necessary, what’s the harm in someone getting a piece in 6 hours?
It’s a good question. It also transplants well:
“What’s the harm in someone soloing CoF1?”
“What’s the harm in giving everyone starting this D&D game a +5 Sword of Buttkicking?”
Though to be more fair than to shift the argument, since I don’t mind yours . . . there’s little obvious harm, but then I expect if you can craft it and the materials are found in bags dropped by champions . . .
About 10% of the players are going to craft one in the first six hours. But that hinges on a lot of assumptions, as does the argument of it not being any harm at all. In other games, and at other times, the harm isn’t readily apparent as the players get what they want . . . but the luster wears off when you earn something easily versus having to do some work for it.
. . . not saying it needs to be grindy as Legendaries can be. (Luck of the drop plays a lot into that!) But if they’re simply “play six hours, get an Ascended cookie!” then what meaning does it hold? Heck, what meaning does anything ahead of it have if you can just . . . get it like that and Exotics are a waste of stepping stone?
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
There is really no point in continuing to respond to Esplen guys. He has already tried to derail the thread with off topic nonsense and as he has already proven in the past that he isn’t capable of logical thinking.
I suspect he is in fact a master ruseman.
+ loads of respect for Behellagh though. Different opinions or not, he/she clearly understands what the discussion is about and did a fantastic job explaining it.
Yes, that is a very great way to post in the forums: Anyone who doesn’t agree with me or have a point that benefits my side isn’t capable of logical thinking.
That reminds me of something I learned in literature, what was it… Oh, that’s right: ad hominem
His post might have been an ad hominem, but yours is a strawman.
He did not say that, “Anyone who doesn’t agree with me or have a point that benefits my side isn’t capable of logical thinking.” He made the comment about you specifically, not anyone who disagrees with him.
In fact he specifically complimented someone who doesn’t share his views.
Items like legendaries and ascended items give addicts, like myself, something to do. Adding time gating, grinding, etc. are necessary so we don’t just get the latest shiny within a few hours of its release. The stats are irrelevant – the shinies aren’t meant for the mainstream, but the OCD’s who want more more more more more. I’m happily part of that group, and I feel it’s OKAY that ArenaNET makes so much of this content that it’s darn near impossible to get it all without completely giving up your real life.
Do you have EVERYTHING in the real world? Probably not. If you did, I suspect you’d be getting your thrills flying your Lear Jet, not playing Guild Wars.
I suggest tempering your own expectations. If you feel that you HAVE to spend all of your time playing to get ALL of the achievements, it’s time to evaluate their importance in your life.
The worst part about this game is the constant trash talking on the forum.
You want a challenge? Stop playing PvE! No AI will ever give you the challenge of an organized PvP team.
ArenaNET is staying consistent to their original vision by limiting the progression opportunity in the game. It’s ridiculous that there are seven pages of bickering over whether players should have everything handed to them or WORK for it.
To meet the wide variety of player types, ArenaNET must offer a wide variety of options that appeal each. If you want something that is in the “wrong category,” it’s YOUR problem, not the game’s. Once you are past that, you will have the choice to enjoy the game or move on.
I bet you all that the time spent on this forum has a bigger impact on the game’s attendance than dailies.
PLAY THE GAME!!!!