Guild Wars 2

Why can’t you guys just keep scrolling and go about your business? Report it if you see fit.

Why come up here and cry about an issue that has already been beaten to death?

Blood Mist Mirage.5610:

Why can’t you guys just keep scrolling and go about your business? Report it if you see fit.

Why come up here and cry about an issue that has already been beaten to death?

A lot of people feel that recently certain LFG abuse has gotten out of hand. I would agree that home instance selling especially has increased.

Voicing concern about such a thing can lead to change. Reporting might deal with the offender, but starting a conversation about the topic can rally a bit of support and bring up some solutions.

Currently very few players know the rules for the LFG. Most players don’t read the forums and probably only skimmed through the ToS when making an account. Personally, I think that A-net should make game-rules much more easily accessible by actually having them available in game. There needs to be an obvious tool-tip on the LFG that summarises what isn’t allowed and there should also be a “rule book”accessible through an icon in the top left corner (along with the other icons).

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

It is the Sticky at the top of the page, I believe.

Good luck.

yeah i read it after i closed up this post…. silly me, always read it once those stickies then i forget often about them.

mcwurth.2081:

Seera.5916:

CureForLiving.5360:

Selling dungeon paths have always been a gray area.
Selling home instances seems to be a no-no.
Selling items… not sure what ANets official word was, but it is buyer beware.
Guild recruitment isn’t something I’ve seen before. Although I do think Anet needs to implement a better system in-game to help recruit new guildies.

LFG is not to be used to sell items, so not allowed. And it’s not allowed to be guild recruitment either.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Our policy: Players may use the LFG Tool only for the formation of a group.

Players may use the tool to sell a spot in a group, but they may not use it to sell or trade items or for any other unintended purposes. Doing so will result in an account infraction.

And later on in a reply on the thread:

Gaile Gray.6029:

• Advertising an access portal is not allowed.
• Guild Recruitment is not allowed.

Both are unrelated to forming a group and therefore are not part of the intended purpose of the Looking for Group Tool.

could you please link that post?

You can also click on the names of the quoted people to get to the thread.

Blood Mist Mirage.5610:

Why can’t you guys just keep scrolling and go about your business? Report it if you see fit.

Why come up here and cry about an issue that has already been beaten to death?

Are…are you aware of the irony?!

Is selling access to your home instance against the rules? or specifically using the lfg tool for it?

Therodin.2970:

Is selling access to your home instance against the rules? or specifically using the lfg tool for it?

Gaile didn’t say anything else about other ways to sell access. However, I imagine if you are spamming chat or whispering random people to do so you might run into problems as well.

In Guild Wars 2 Discussion there is a stickied thread at the top that has an official answer on the matter. Since nobody posted the link I will https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Policy-on-the-LFG-Tool

Edit: I believe Anet’s stance was that you can sell access to gathering nodes in your home instance and it’s buyer beware, but you can’t use the LFG tool to advertise it.

So, what is the difference between selling someone a spot in your home instance and selling a spot in a dungeon run that makes 1 OK and the other not?

anabasis.7346:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Therodin.2970:

Is selling access to your home instance against the rules? or specifically using the lfg tool for it?

Gaile didn’t say anything else about other ways to sell access. However, I imagine if you are spamming chat or whispering random people to do so you might run into problems as well.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Seka.5647:

What about selling access to ones home instance for gathering resources? Namely I just spotted this new type of selling in lfg just about an hour ago : " Sell access crafting nodes (17) for 20 silver…..->" . Does it belong to the dungeon sort of selling section or is it abusing the lfg due to selling access to “items”?

• Advertising an access portal is not allowed.
• Guild Recruitment is not allowed.

Both are unrelated to forming a group and therefore are not part of the intended purpose of the Looking for Group Tool.

The person I responded to asked about selling access to personal in general and even noted it is against the rules to use the LFG tool to do so. Read their post. That was the basis of my post. Gaile’s response on the issue is related to the the LFG tool and doesn’t discuss anything outside of that.

Gaile Gray.6029:

• Advertising an access portal is not allowed.
• Guild Recruitment is not allowed.

Both are unrelated to forming a group and therefore are not part of the intended purpose of the Looking for Group Tool.

For example as per what the person I responded to asked about:

You finish a dungeon run and then ask in party chat, “Hey anyone want to stay in the party and jump in my home instance to mine nodes for 10 silver?”

As far as I know and what I have seen here that would not be against the rules as they are not using the LFG tool that Gaile was referencing to do so. But as I said to the person I responded to if they say spam map chat:

“Selling access to my home instance to mine nodes. 10 silver!” Then they might get reported for spamming or at the very least just make people block them. Much like it is okay to advertise guilds in chat but if people do it too much they get reported or people just start blocking them.

Blood Mist Mirage.5610:

Why can’t you guys just keep scrolling and go about your business? Report it if you see fit.

Why come up here and cry about an issue that has already been beaten to death?

Why come up here and cry about people having discussions about issues?

The forums are a place for people to discuss subjects about the game. This is a subject. About the game.

As for your first statement…
Because the issue should be beaten to death. Issues that are beaten to death usually, for the most part, get fixed. Things get done when lots of people have an issue with it.

Julie Yann.5379:

So, what is the difference between selling someone a spot in your home instance and selling a spot in a dungeon run that makes 1 OK and the other not?

I also want to know this.

anabasis.7346:

The guy you quoted was asking if the act of selling an access to his home instance was against the rules or if it was the use of the lfg to sell it that was not allowed.

You are the one making the assumption that he was asking about other methods of selling an access like whispering or spamming chat. The thing is, he doesn’t even mention those in his post.

Also, you should have quoted Gaile to solve his second question like I did, but you didn’t.
Anyways, let’s not derail this topic.

Therodin.2970:

or specifically using the lfg tool for it?

Acknowledgment that it is not allowed to use the LFG tool to sell access (hence an understanding of the LFG rules). It is posed as a question sure but the word “specifically” should have clued you in the person is referring to the rule that it is not allowed. No need to quote what the poster obviously already knows about LFG rules. As for the rest, I simply gave the person examples of things that may not be welcomed by others when trying to sell home instance access outside the LFG tool.

I agree no more derail.

Julie Yann.5379:

So, what is the difference between selling someone a spot in your home instance and selling a spot in a dungeon run that makes 1 OK and the other not?

Anet only enforces rules when things allow people to circumvent the gem store?

If selling dungeon spots somehow cut into gem sales you can bet they would crack down on it.

I can only assume key farming got a free pass because the key was meant as a “free taste” for newbies and Anet had no real way of stopping people abusing it.

Substance E.4852:

Anet only enforces rules when things allow people to circumvent the gem store?

That’s a rather cynical view, and I believe one that has no evidence.

LFG tool can be used for random things around the world right? like mapping and junk? Well you have to be in a group to use another person’s home instance. So you are looking to form a group with people who will pay to use your home instance. How is it different from selling dungeons?

Therodin.2970:

LFG tool can be used for random things around the world right? like mapping and junk? Well you have to be in a group to use another person’s home instance. So you are looking to form a group with people who will pay to use your home instance. How is it different from selling dungeons?

But mapping as a group is doing content together. Fighting together. Deciding what direction to go into as a group.

And it doesn’t take much effort or skill to have home instance nodes. It takes effort and skill to be able to solo or duo some of the harder paths in dungeons. And they have to have the last boss still standing in order to sell the dungeon so you have to fight together to finish the dungeon.

Seera.5916:

Therodin.2970:

LFG tool can be used for random things around the world right? like mapping and junk? Well you have to be in a group to use another person’s home instance. So you are looking to form a group with people who will pay to use your home instance. How is it different from selling dungeons?

But mapping as a group is doing content together. Fighting together. Deciding what direction to go into as a group.

And it doesn’t take much effort or skill to have home instance nodes. It takes effort and skill to be able to solo or duo some of the harder paths in dungeons. And they have to have the last boss still standing in order to sell the dungeon so you have to fight together to finish the dungeon.

It’s really a difference in degree though, not a difference in kind.

Let’s say I want to farm across a map but don’t want to farm alone. Would it be against the LFG rules to make a group for that, even if we don’t stick together, but we do chat? That’s only a difference in degree from posting in the LFG for people to come with me to harvest my home instance.

I’m not sure ANet thought it through.

I’ve seen a few sellin’ high fractals for like 20g a piece (pp).

Looked to have scam written all over it.

Seera.5916:

Therodin.2970:

LFG tool can be used for random things around the world right? like mapping and junk? Well you have to be in a group to use another person’s home instance. So you are looking to form a group with people who will pay to use your home instance. How is it different from selling dungeons?

But mapping as a group is doing content together. Fighting together. Deciding what direction to go into as a group.

And it doesn’t take much effort or skill to have home instance nodes. It takes effort and skill to be able to solo or duo some of the harder paths in dungeons. And they have to have the last boss still standing in order to sell the dungeon so you have to fight together to finish the dungeon.

It doesn’t take much effort to kill to final boss either. If they soloed or duoed a path up to the final boss a party is no longer required. It’s basically saying, pay us to bring your uplevel toon so we can kill to boss for you type deals. I don’t see the difference.

Maybe to guys advertising their home instance should just change the way they advertise. “Selling a spot for a gathering party cause it’s more fun gathering together”

While I am usually fully with Anet on the decisions they make about the rules of the game, the lfg tool is one I really do not understand. I was entirely unaware that selling home instances is against the rules and thought it was a clever way to make money on the instance owner’s part and I bought them almost every day until recently when I have started to go farm nodes for myself. That said, I still do occasionally buy home instances and would like something clarifying: is it ok to BUY home instances but not sell them? If it is not, of course I will stop completely but it is a convenience that I do like from time to time.

Additionally, I also believe that there is no difference between selling dungeons and selling home instances and they should both be ok (if someone is willing to pay to get your stuff why stop them?). Selling specific items on the lfg however I do see why that is against the rules and although I have no problem with seeing it (I just ignore those groups), it is in my opinion misusing the tool and I support Anet’s decision on bypassing TP fees in that way.

Is home instance selling even a thing? I was trying to give it out for free couple times – but no one ever joined my group so I gave up on that Cannot imagine that people would pay for it on a regular basis if no one wants it for free

suffish.4150:

While I am usually fully with Anet on the decisions they make about the rules of the game, the lfg tool is one I really do not understand. I was entirely unaware that selling home instances is against the rules and thought it was a clever way to make money on the instance owner’s part and I bought them almost every day until recently when I have started to go farm nodes for myself. That said, I still do occasionally buy home instances and would like something clarifying: is it ok to BUY home instances but not sell them? If it is not, of course I will stop completely but it is a convenience that I do like from time to time.

Additionally, I also believe that there is no difference between selling dungeons and selling home instances and they should both be ok (if someone is willing to pay to get your stuff why stop them?). Selling specific items on the lfg however I do see why that is against the rules and although I have no problem with seeing it (I just ignore those groups), it is in my opinion misusing the tool and I support Anet’s decision on bypassing TP fees in that way.

it is somewhat a grey area, arenanet do not like it but can not really prevent it. just do not use the LFG tool to advertise it as that is illegal.

mcwurth.2081:

suffish.4150:

While I am usually fully with Anet on the decisions they make about the rules of the game, the lfg tool is one I really do not understand. I was entirely unaware that selling home instances is against the rules and thought it was a clever way to make money on the instance owner’s part and I bought them almost every day until recently when I have started to go farm nodes for myself. That said, I still do occasionally buy home instances and would like something clarifying: is it ok to BUY home instances but not sell them? If it is not, of course I will stop completely but it is a convenience that I do like from time to time.

Additionally, I also believe that there is no difference between selling dungeons and selling home instances and they should both be ok (if someone is willing to pay to get your stuff why stop them?). Selling specific items on the lfg however I do see why that is against the rules and although I have no problem with seeing it (I just ignore those groups), it is in my opinion misusing the tool and I support Anet’s decision on bypassing TP fees in that way.

it is somewhat a grey area, arenanet do not like it but can not really prevent it. just do not use the LFG tool to advertise it as that is illegal.

Thanks for the response, seeing as Anet do not like people doing it I am going to stop because even if you can’t be banned for it, I like to not exploit/break rules out of principle more than anything else and just to be an honest player.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Our policy: Players may use the LFG Tool only for the formation of a group.

Players may use the tool to sell a spot in a group, but they may not use it to sell or trade items or for any other unintended purposes. Doing so will result in an account infraction.

they really are against player to player trading in every way aren’t they? funny seeing as that was the only system in GW1. god forbid we skip paying Gnashblade our blood tithes.

KaosNinja.4967:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Our policy: Players may use the LFG Tool only for the formation of a group.

Players may use the tool to sell a spot in a group, but they may not use it to sell or trade items or for any other unintended purposes. Doing so will result in an account infraction.

they really are against player to player trading in every way aren’t they? funny seeing as that was the only system in GW1. god forbid we skip paying Gnashblade our blood tithes.

And god forbid people avoid the secure trading post, get scammed and then make tickets asking for ANet to fix it, which takes up scarce Support time, as well as the annoying necessity of having to punish the account of the scammer, which could be account termination.

Julie Yann.5379:

Seera.5916:

Therodin.2970:

LFG tool can be used for random things around the world right? like mapping and junk? Well you have to be in a group to use another person’s home instance. So you are looking to form a group with people who will pay to use your home instance. How is it different from selling dungeons?

But mapping as a group is doing content together. Fighting together. Deciding what direction to go into as a group.

And it doesn’t take much effort or skill to have home instance nodes. It takes effort and skill to be able to solo or duo some of the harder paths in dungeons. And they have to have the last boss still standing in order to sell the dungeon so you have to fight together to finish the dungeon.

It doesn’t take much effort to kill to final boss either. If they soloed or duoed a path up to the final boss a party is no longer required. It’s basically saying, pay us to bring your uplevel toon so we can kill to boss for you type deals. I don’t see the difference.

Maybe to guys advertising their home instance should just change the way they advertise. “Selling a spot for a gathering party cause it’s more fun gathering together”

Killing the final boss is still doing content together. Gaile never put a “You must intend to do content for X time together to put your group on the LFG.” in the rules.

And no matter what they put on the LFG, if it becomes known as the euphemism for selling access to the home nodes, they will get reported for LFG abuse.

Seera.5916:

Julie Yann.5379:

Seera.5916:

Therodin.2970:

LFG tool can be used for random things around the world right? like mapping and junk? Well you have to be in a group to use another person’s home instance. So you are looking to form a group with people who will pay to use your home instance. How is it different from selling dungeons?

But mapping as a group is doing content together. Fighting together. Deciding what direction to go into as a group.

And it doesn’t take much effort or skill to have home instance nodes. It takes effort and skill to be able to solo or duo some of the harder paths in dungeons. And they have to have the last boss still standing in order to sell the dungeon so you have to fight together to finish the dungeon.

It doesn’t take much effort to kill to final boss either. If they soloed or duoed a path up to the final boss a party is no longer required. It’s basically saying, pay us to bring your uplevel toon so we can kill to boss for you type deals. I don’t see the difference.

Maybe to guys advertising their home instance should just change the way they advertise. “Selling a spot for a gathering party cause it’s more fun gathering together”

Killing the final boss is still doing content together. Gaile never put a “You must intend to do content for X time together to put your group on the LFG.” in the rules.

And no matter what they put on the LFG, if it becomes known as the euphemism for selling access to the home nodes, they will get reported for LFG abuse.

Do you think that’s right though? that selling home instances is against the rules on the lfg but dungeons are fine?

Therodin.2970:

Seera.5916:

Julie Yann.5379:

Seera.5916:

Therodin.2970:

LFG tool can be used for random things around the world right? like mapping and junk? Well you have to be in a group to use another person’s home instance. So you are looking to form a group with people who will pay to use your home instance. How is it different from selling dungeons?

But mapping as a group is doing content together. Fighting together. Deciding what direction to go into as a group.

And it doesn’t take much effort or skill to have home instance nodes. It takes effort and skill to be able to solo or duo some of the harder paths in dungeons. And they have to have the last boss still standing in order to sell the dungeon so you have to fight together to finish the dungeon.

It doesn’t take much effort to kill to final boss either. If they soloed or duoed a path up to the final boss a party is no longer required. It’s basically saying, pay us to bring your uplevel toon so we can kill to boss for you type deals. I don’t see the difference.

Maybe to guys advertising their home instance should just change the way they advertise. “Selling a spot for a gathering party cause it’s more fun gathering together”

Killing the final boss is still doing content together. Gaile never put a “You must intend to do content for X time together to put your group on the LFG.” in the rules.

And no matter what they put on the LFG, if it becomes known as the euphemism for selling access to the home nodes, they will get reported for LFG abuse.

Do you think that’s right though? that selling home instances is against the rules on the lfg but dungeons are fine?

I don’t think it is right since I don’t see the distinction between the two. If one is allowed so should the other cause all you are doing is advertising a spot in your party. As far as I know gather nodes is part of the games content which can be done together. You can advertise a party to dance in lions arch or assemble a musical quartet if you wanted and that wouldn’t be against the rules. How does that differ from the home instance? It doesn’t cause it’s all in game content which can be played together. If Anet doesn’t want us to invite people into our homes, why did they allow it in the first place?

It doesn’t make a difference to me either way, I never pay for dungeon or home instances. I never sell dungeon paths and I doubt anyone would pay to get access to my lonely little quartz crystal node in my home instance but I do believe that Anet isn’t being fair or reasonable in this case.

With regard to the blatant discrepancy between dungeon selling = ok, home instance selling = not ok, my position is that Gaile either misinterpreted the question, or the person she asked misinterpreted the question as the answer provided makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and can’t possibly be accurate.

They are the exact same thing, selling access to an instance, and thus must be treated the exact same way. Failure to do so results in an arbitrary rule system that instantly causes a loss of respect by those expected to follow it which, over time, triggers a complete breakdown of the player to developer dynamic.

mtpelion.4562:

With regard to the blatant discrepancy between dungeon selling = ok, home instance selling = not ok, my position is that Gaile either misinterpreted the question, or the person she asked misinterpreted the question as the answer provided makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and can’t possibly be accurate.

They are the exact same thing, selling access to an instance, and thus must be treated the exact same way. Failure to do so results in an arbitrary rule system that instantly causes a loss of respect by those expected to follow it which, over time, triggers a complete breakdown of the player to developer dynamic.

This!
Pages and pages of discussion vcould have been cut short if Gaile or someone else makes it crystal clear what is and what isn’t allowed. I know the have tons of work and millions of post to read but that doesn’t mean that sometimes an more ellaborate answer isn’t worth it, hence I petition for a rewording/clarification/more detailed explanation of the red post regarding this.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Rauderi.8706:

Gaile, thanks so much for forwarding those details.

Secondary question, though.
Since group-selling (taxis/paths/dungeons) are confirmed as legit, are there policies in place about how to handle scams/griefing? Or is that still very much “buyer beware” for those willing to buy/sell LFG spots?

Unfortunately, CS is seldom able to get a clear view on scams of this type. Tracking who agreed to what, and who promised to provide this service or that service is difficult to verify, especially when some of the arrangements are made or finalized outside the game (on Vent, TeamSpeak, Skype, etc.)

So every transaction of this nature is simply, by necessary, considered “Buyer and/or seller beware.” If the team is able to verify that a scam took place, they may be able to act upon the account of the scammer, but that would not involve returning lost items or currency or the fulfillment of the player-to-player “contract.”

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: TP fees are my insurance, as a player. They’re my protection as both a buyer and seller. Dodging fees might sounds attractive, in theory, but I’ve seen too many nasty outcomes to even consider doing trades or sales without using the game system that was built specifically to support those transactions.

Very easy, just place a flag in on these players that gets their hands on

• precursor or legendary via in-game mail.
• or large sum of gold

Reverse the sale, in Gw2, Arena can be God. Gold and items gets returned to their original owners. With a warning mail to both.

Much as I love this game, there is one thing about it I really, really don’t like and that is the selling spots in parties.

I don’t want to have to pay to do content. Sure, I should play with friends or go with guild, but I play by myself and I don’t really have guild. But, that’s something I need to address.

I already paid money for this game. I don’t want to have to pay other players to do content in a game I already paid for.

Dungeon sellers, taxis, etc, all seems kind of seedy to me. That’s just my opinion. You all can carry on doing things you are allowed to do. I’ve played enough games to know to be very, very careful in dealing with money and other players. I stay away from the whole subject period.

Seera.5916:

shadow.6174:

Well, LFG tool didn’t exist when that Agreement was created and when the most of us accepted it by creating accounts. I agree it should be updated and then announced about the changes when they occurs. Also yes, I can’t understand why selling dungeon spots is allowed, it doesn’t feel fair for me. Players don’t “own” dungeons then they can’t “sell” what isn’t theirs. LFG is meant to be used to gather groups TO DO content, NOT TO SELL content.

They are selling a spot in a group to do content. The content they do just doesn’t last very long (they can’t give rewards to other players if they join in after the last boss is dead). They aren’t selling content. They are selling a service but not requiring you to be present in the instance while they run the dungeon.

So, by nature of your argument, they are NOT selling a group to do content, they are essentially selling reward for a part of the game in which the person did not take part/did have to put forth significant effort to complete, which in any other aspect of this game would be considered…what exactly? How is this different from selling a group to taxi, or farm if the individual paying is not actually an active participant in the activity?

It seems like they’re attempting to avoid scamming and non-use of the trading post, while allowing dungeon selling is going a step further and allowing the sale of non-trade-able items in a circumstance where scams abound. (Some of which could be mitigated with some intuitive changes in instances ownership and trading between characters like most MMO’s have.)

Dovienya.6597:

Seera.5916:

shadow.6174:

Well, LFG tool didn’t exist when that Agreement was created and when the most of us accepted it by creating accounts. I agree it should be updated and then announced about the changes when they occurs. Also yes, I can’t understand why selling dungeon spots is allowed, it doesn’t feel fair for me. Players don’t “own” dungeons then they can’t “sell” what isn’t theirs. LFG is meant to be used to gather groups TO DO content, NOT TO SELL content.

They are selling a spot in a group to do content. The content they do just doesn’t last very long (they can’t give rewards to other players if they join in after the last boss is dead). They aren’t selling content. They are selling a service but not requiring you to be present in the instance while they run the dungeon.

So, by nature of your argument, they are NOT selling a group to do content, they are essentially selling reward for a part of the game in which the person did not take part/did have to put forth significant effort to complete, which in any other aspect of this game would be considered…what exactly? How is this different from selling a group to taxi, or farm if the individual paying is not actually an active participant in the activity?

It seems like they’re attempting to avoid scamming and non-use of the trading post, while allowing dungeon selling is going a step further and allowing the sale of non-trade-able items in a circumstance where scams abound. (Some of which could be mitigated with some intuitive changes in instances ownership and trading between characters like most MMO’s have.)

What I mean by “not selling content” are items that you craft or forge or receive as a drop.

They still have to do content together as a group to get the rewards. Some sellers do require players to help take down the final boss as well.

Taxis are probably grey area. They’re organizing big groups that expand outside of 5 members. So the group doesn’t stay together in a party for very long, but remain in the same map doing the same events and content.

And they don’t view clicking F together a few times as enough content to warrant selling a spot for.

I use the LFG tool for forming a group to farm my instance when it’s a daily. I do it free of charge and do not expect nor advertise for tips. I do it just to be helpful. My PUG group usually fills up in 5 minutes and we’re off.

Can’t see anything that’s wrong with that. Am I missing anything?

Thanks!

Styrbjorn.9147:

I use the LFG tool for forming a group to farm my instance when it’s a daily. I do it free of charge and do not expect nor advertise for tips. I do it just to be helpful. My PUG group usually fills up in 5 minutes and we’re off.

Can’t see anything that’s wrong with that. Am I missing anything?

Thanks!

Home instances are not group content though. It was also specifically stated that advertising home instances were not allowed.

Ayrilana.1396:

Styrbjorn.9147:

I use the LFG tool for forming a group to farm my instance when it’s a daily. I do it free of charge and do not expect nor advertise for tips. I do it just to be helpful. My PUG group usually fills up in 5 minutes and we’re off.

Can’t see anything that’s wrong with that. Am I missing anything?

Thanks!

Home instances are not group content though. It was also specifically stated that advertising home instances were not allowed.

Yes advertising, which implies a cost is not allowed. Giving it away for free is totally fine. Also how is it not group content if multiple people are allowed to enter one persons instance?

Therodin.2970:

Ayrilana.1396:

Styrbjorn.9147:

I use the LFG tool for forming a group to farm my instance when it’s a daily. I do it free of charge and do not expect nor advertise for tips. I do it just to be helpful. My PUG group usually fills up in 5 minutes and we’re off.

Can’t see anything that’s wrong with that. Am I missing anything?

Thanks!

Home instances are not group content though. It was also specifically stated that advertising home instances were not allowed.

Yes advertising, which implies a cost is not allowed. Giving it away for free is totally fine. Also how is it not group content if multiple people are allowed to enter one persons instance?

Whether it’s free or not doesn’t matter. It’s not group content because it’s not. I don’t see why that needs to be explained. For dungeons you generally need a group to complete them. Do you really need a group to farm a home instance? Not to mention that it’s already been stated that it’s not allowed.

Therodin.2970:

Ayrilana.1396:

Styrbjorn.9147:

I use the LFG tool for forming a group to farm my instance when it’s a daily. I do it free of charge and do not expect nor advertise for tips. I do it just to be helpful. My PUG group usually fills up in 5 minutes and we’re off.

Can’t see anything that’s wrong with that. Am I missing anything?

Thanks!

Home instances are not group content though. It was also specifically stated that advertising home instances were not allowed.

Yes advertising, which implies a cost is not allowed. Giving it away for free is totally fine. Also how is it not group content if multiple people are allowed to enter one persons instance?

Nope- it’s the act of advertising that isn’t allowed, that’s the problem. You can still “advertise” something that’s free… that verb doesn’t automatically refer to a service or item that costs.

Like Ayrilana said, it’s the fact that gathering a home instance is not group content that makes this against the rules of the LFG.

Use map chat. Providing you’re not spamming, this is the safer way where you’re not breaking any rules.

Your definition of group content is flawed. It does not take a group to explore a map but you are allowed to advertise that in the lfg.

Therodin.2970:

Your definition of group content is flawed. It does not take a group to explore a map but you are allowed to advertise that in the lfg.

But it can be done as a group as you’re playing the game together. This is not the case when the sole purpose is to gain access to someone’s home instance. This argument is moot anyhow as it has already been stated that it’s against the rules. You can keep arguing against that but it’s not going to change a thing.

They have changed the rules before when confronted with an argument. You can also walk through someones home instance as a group. The fact that multiple people can join the same home instance means that it is group content.

Therodin.2970:

They have changed the rules before when confronted with an argument. You can also walk through someones home instance as a group. The fact that multiple people can join the same home instance means that it is group content.

Out of interest, what rule did they change?

And sure, the rule could be changed in the future- it certainly isn’t impossible. However, it is pretty clear that advertising your home instance in the LFG is currently against the rules.

I agree with the argument that likens home instance selling to dungeon selling- they are both similar and it is hypocritical to allow one and not the other. JP portals are also a kind of grey area as they could be counted as an “access portal”, which aren’t allowed to be advertised through the LFG.

Personally I think they should make things very simple- disallow the advertisement of all of these through the LFG (to prevent cluttering the LFG). People may use in-game chat (providing they aren’t spamming) to advertise their services or some kind of third-party website/programme to organise themselves.

Alternately, A-net could make a seperate tab in the LFG (and specific dungeons) so that buyers/sellers can be kept separate from the general population. However, this would result in A-net “supporting” this sort of business and ultimately means that they would have to deal with more CS tickets regarding scams.

Therodin.2970:

They have changed the rules before when confronted with an argument. You can also walk through someones home instance as a group. The fact that multiple people can join the same home instance means that it is group content.

So because they’ve allegedly changed rules in the past this makes any of the current rules negligible? So if I post that I’m selling several precursor in my home instance, then that’s acceptable? After all, you can only walk into my instance if you’re in my group and that since multiple people can join a home instance then it must be group content.

Ayrilana.1396:

Therodin.2970:

They have changed the rules before when confronted with an argument. You can also walk through someones home instance as a group. The fact that multiple people can join the same home instance means that it is group content.

So because they’ve allegedly changed rules in the past this makes any of the current rules negligible? So if I post that I’m selling several precursor in my home instance, then that’s acceptable? After all, you can only walk into my instance if you’re in my group and that since multiple people can join a home instance then it must be group content.

If i say that something is against the rules but then never punish anyone for it, is it really against the rules? I constantly see people still posting this in the lfg and it is the same people week after week.

Therodin.2970:

Ayrilana.1396:

Therodin.2970:

They have changed the rules before when confronted with an argument. You can also walk through someones home instance as a group. The fact that multiple people can join the same home instance means that it is group content.

So because they’ve allegedly changed rules in the past this makes any of the current rules negligible? So if I post that I’m selling several precursor in my home instance, then that’s acceptable? After all, you can only walk into my instance if you’re in my group and that since multiple people can join a home instance then it must be group content.

If i say that something is against the rules but then never punish anyone for it, is it really against the rules? I constantly see people still posting this in the lfg and it is the same people week after week.

Are you reporting them or are you assuming someone else did?

Seera.5916:

Are you reporting them or are you assuming someone else did?

This. I see a lot of people complaining about particular people (and then complaining about A-net’s lack of moderation/punishment). I ask how often they report them and often they have said one of these things: “I didn’t realise you could report them”, “There was no option for it”, or “I reported the first time but can’t be bothered to/why should I waste my time it’s A-net’s problem”.

Admittedly though, for some (lesser) offences, A-net do take a long time to react. I believe that repeat minor offences take the most time to be dealt with because the single offence in itself isn’t enough to warrant any punishment. The moderators have to spend time filing all minor offences to make a case to determine if the frequency is severe enough to warrant punishment.

For instance, for a few months there was a guy who was spamming map chat with his youtube channel to try to advertise it. Spamming and advertising are both against the ToS- I spoke to many people who (like me) reported the guy every time he put his ad up. I even put in a CS ticket in. The guy was quite persistent, and then he suddenly disappeared. It took a few months of reporting, but from what I gather, he’s probably been banned (or maybe he just gave up or something).

So do remember some things take time, which is understandable. Moderators probably prioritise and a good thing too- I’d much rather that a toxic person/verbally abusive person/exploiter/hacker gets dealt with sooner than somebody abusing the LFG or occassionally spamming.

I also highly doubt that somebody abusing the LFG to sell their instance or advertise their guild will be severely punished, unless there is another element to it (e.g. RMT or verbal abuse/inappropriateness, which I have seen before). They might just receive a warning or a short suspension, for instance.

And like I kinda mentioned, if you feel that your in-game report isn’t helpful, send a CS ticket in too if you feel like you can supply more information about the case. It may or may not speed things along, but if it puts your mind at ease (knowing you’ve helped just a little bit more) that’s the important thing.

Of course i don’t report them because i do not think they are doing anything wrong.

Therodin.2970:

Of course i don’t report them because i do not think they are doing anything wrong.

Anet stated advertising home instance access is against the LFG rules. Just because people choose not to report it for whatever reason, or feel that it isn’t, doesn’t change this.

Dear LFG Tool ppl can you fix the Fractals submenu – the numbers are all wrong – The scales should be 1-10 11-20 21-30 31-40 41-50.
The way you paired them confuses new ppl since it is based on the old system. Its been over year now ….

p.s. would you add a function to this, that forbids ppl that are in a ban list to rejoin, or ppl that were kicked from the party to rejoin and “troll”?