Guild Wars 2

Zaxares.5419:

Honestly? I don’t think you’d ever be able to convert a PvE’er who wasn’t already into WvW as well. The holdouts are people who just do not like to PvP; they don’t like competing against other people, and they most certainly do not like being attacked by other players.

As long as WvW holds the risk of being attacked and killed by other players, you will never get these PvE’ers into WvW. (And of course, if you remove that, then it’s not really WvW anymore.)

Poppykitten.

I’m mainly PvE, with a bit of sPvP on the side, and I’m definitely interested in WvW.

What would help draw me into WvW:

• Better guidance for beginners, maybe tutorial-style events.
  I’ve been to WvW maps a few times for map completion and jumping puzzles, and I’ve skimmed the wiki, but I have no idea how anything works.
• Better attitude
  Some stuff players post on these forums (not just in the WvW subforums) is just depressing for me as a person who believes in being friendly and respectful to one another. I believe that respectful behaviour and PvP are not mutually exclusive (it works in sPvP!) There is a place for carebears in PvP. But after reading some posts on here, WvW most days just isn’t the place where I want to spend my time.
• Better achievements and rewards
  Maybe playing WvW is its own reward – I’m not far enough in the process yet to judge.
  However, the achievements and rewards that I know of don’t necessarily serve as additional motivation to put any time into WvW right now. (Maybe aside from armour that you can buy with WvW badges, but I didn’t even know of that until a few days ago and I don’t know how hard it is to get them). PvE just seems more worthwhile in terms of “value for time”.
• Background story
  I would also like to add that my lack of interest in the WvW maps is partially based on the lack of background info/lore attached to the places. In PvE, I always know why I’m doing something while I do it. In WvW, all activities seem to be “for the sake of it”. We attack that tower because… well, that’s just what we do. WvW, for me, lacks emotional depth.

Placing caches/kites in the Obsidian Sanctum, by the way, is actively drawing me away from WvW.
Whatever you decide to promote your game features and playing styles, ANet, by now it should be obvious that drawing further wedges between the WvW and PvE community isn’t helping with anything.

Shanaeri Rynale.6897:

No repairs costs.

This. Unlike PvE, where dying usually is an indicator of a failure on your end, and it is entirely possible to complete an entire dungeon without dying once, in WvW death is inevitable.

My first experience in WvW as a PvEer was in order to get my map completion (as it is for many PvEers). In this sense, WvW was a stressful place trying to run around by myself getting Vistas and POIs all the while having to watch my back for enemies. I felt like some scared little primate in a jungle of predators.

Since then, I decided to try WvW to play it for what it was and told myself I would learn how to do this. I have now been playing in WvW a good 30-40% of my time for the last 5 months and I enjoy it quite a lot.

This may not work anymore now that the game is almost a year old… but my suggestion to make people want to try out WvW is to gather up PvEers in LA under the guise of map completion. If you have a sizable guild, advertise in LA that you are going to be taking over an enemy BL and people should come with if they need map completion. This will keep the PvEers safe and give them something they want all the while showing them the advantages of WvW and how to play it.

Spiral Architect.6540:

Why don’t I WvW? I find it exceedingly dull.

Zerg vs zerg? /yawn

Using siege? /yawn x2

Running back for 5 minutes after each death? /yawn x3

Roaming is mildly more fun, until the next zerg sweeps through, then it’s more of the above.

So, in answer to the OP’s question, I’m not sure what it would take to get me to play WvW, other than a complete overhaul of what it is.

The real bummer for me is that, prior to launch, WvW was the game mode I was most excited about.

Hehe so true, before launch I was planning to live entirely in wvw 1-80, I got to about 5 :p

Now I love spvp and pve, I guess wvw just needs to be a lot bigger, with more zones to spread the players it’ll be a bit more of a pvp/pve hybrid like it seems designed to be.

spvp is nice because regearing/respeccing is instant. I have some decent pve gold but not enough to get geared for wvw.

I’m an avid PvE’er. When I venture into WvW I have no idea what’s going on. I see other players fighting and I jump in. Don’t know when/where to rally, the point of commanders, strategies, etc. I assume it’s large scale capture the flag, in essence taking or defending everything from outposts to castles. Which is great in concept, but it’s so big and spread out that I feel lost. I join a group and if I die I WP to some place completely out of the action. At least with PvP when I die I can jump back into the action. In WvW after death I have to make my way all the way back to wherever the action is, or where I’m needed for a siege. It feels like that WoW siege map from WotLK (forget name), but on a much grander scale. I suppose it takes a bit of time to really learn, but without a teacher it’s not an enjoyable learning experience.

Clockradio.3257:

…to get you excited about WvW?

What would have to change/be added into the game to make it more appealing to those who primarily farm PvE events and dungeons?

Just curious about some of your responses.

Remove the pvp jackkittens….. oh wait…..

I tend to avoid pvp simply due to the less than forgiving/friendly natures of the vast majority of its inhabitants. If I want to get screamed at, I’ll just go pick a fight in LA. THAT is at least enjoyable (and funny) most of the time.

Star Ace.5207:

AndrewSX.3794:

Honestly, if you’re considering WvW as PvE, do a favor to you and to WvWers and stick with PvE.

Though I am not too fond of WvW, your comment is elitist and unneeded.

I’ll read it again, seems you misunderstood my point:

Honestly, IF you’re considering WvW as PvE, do a favor to you and to WvWers and stick with PvE.

Just saying that WvW is PvP.
If you consider an extension of PvE (like our devs do) is far better to stick with it because you’d have a unpleasant surprise.

A lot of what keeps me away from WvW is the players on my own server. I do okay in WvW, but it gets really tiring listening to the internet badasses spewing their elitist bullkitten every minute of the time there. PvE players won’t try WvW because the H4rdc0re!!!oneone kitten swingers have made it quite clear that they don’t want PvE players even trying WvW out.
If the elitists are so fed up with PvE people, maybe they should stop kittenting on people in the threads where people ask for WvW to be removed as a world completion requireme… oh wait. you want easy targets. Forgot that detail.

AndrewSX.3794:

Star Ace.5207:

AndrewSX.3794:

Honestly, if you’re considering WvW as PvE, do a favor to you and to WvWers and stick with PvE.

Though I am not too fond of WvW, your comment is elitist and unneeded.

I’ll read it again for you, seems you misunderstood my point:

Honestly, IF you’re considering WvW as PvE, do a favor to you and to WvWers and stick with PvE.

Just saying that WvW is PvP.
If you consider an extension of PvE (like our devs do) is far better to stick with it because you’d have a unpleasant surprise.

Can’t speak for Star Ace, but I interpreted your post as

“Honestly, if you’re considering WvW as a PvE player”
not
“Honestly, if you’re considering WvW the same as PvE”

making it sound like you don’t want PvE players there, which sounded elitist.

Thanks for clearing that up

I am not too interested in PvP. I have not done anything to know more about it because in most games likes this it’s full of elitist jerks. No offense.
WvW sounds like fun, but because of my non information I am sure you need to regear, respec and go use skills you do not touch in pve.

First of all, I do not intend this to be derogatory in any way. It is human psychology which is neither bad nor good, but just is. PvE is usually about comparatively easy perpetual gratification without great risks of losing invested time. That is appealing to most human beings and the reason why MMORPGs are really addictive games. PvP is a completely different animal, competitiveness is the key element here. Which not everyone enjoys. Just look at sports and see how many people are active in any given discipline there and the comparatively small number that enters competitions, even on a hobby level. Regardless of small rewards in a PvP enviroment, for most people the high probablity of losing will make it unappealing. Which is fine, btw.

Nothing would make me go, I hate getting killed by other players, I do not like to have taken treatment in the back, I do not like either kill others.

The idea to flee their attack greatly upsets me, I feel stressed wcw me, and I immediately stopped play.

Nothing can push me Stay there. I do not want to go.

I’m mostly PvE, but I really enjoy the occasional jaunt into WuvWuv.

The thing that really sticks out is that the goal isn’t that obvious. You don’t immediately understand WHY you’re taking all these towers and camp, and it all seems a bit pointless when they flip five minutes later.
Over time, I got a grasp on how everything works, and understood the value of holding and upgrading stuff, but it took a while.

This is also part and parcel of the overwhelming feeling you get when you’re new to WuvWuv that your individual efforts don’t count for much, and you’re only really contributing when part of the faceless zerg.

As to how to fix these initial impressions?
Wow, that’s a hard problem.

One thing I think could help are permanent objectives; things that once you’ve captured, STAY captured for your world. However, making something like that would be really hard to balance, and ensuring that one server doesn’t grab control of everything could also be difficult. Maybe it should be the at the end of a long, complicated event chain that could be disrupted by enemy players?

For the second point, to increase a player’s sense of relevance would necessitate smaller group scenarios, and again, making such things could be difficult in WvW.
Maybe mini-dungeons that close access once a certain number of players have entered? They could be competitive, say 5 versus 5, and a rush to kill a boss while fighting off the enemy?
Make the reward something that provides your world with a substantial bonus, either temporary or maybe even tie it into the permanent objective idea?

There’s a tutorial NPC that explains all the important WvW parts at each entrance :/ How can you make it more obvious short of putting a big non interactive tutorial as a gate before you are even allowed to enter WvW and even so most players will plain forget all it says 5 minutes later.

Neural.1824:

A lot of what keeps me away from WvW is the players on my own server. I do okay in WvW, but it gets really tiring listening to the internet badasses spewing their elitist bullkitten every minute of the time there. PvE players won’t try WvW because the H4rdc0re!!!oneone kitten swingers have made it quite clear that they don’t want PvE players even trying WvW out.
If the elitists are so fed up with PvE people, maybe they should stop kittenting on people in the threads where people ask for WvW to be removed as a world completion requireme… oh wait. you want easy targets. Forgot that detail.

No, WvW players are sick of PvE people doing the following:

1. Taking up spaces that actual players could be using because they’re just mindlessly following the tag to get badges for their lolgendaries

2. Depending on the server I guess, but not getting on the godkitten teamspeak. Commanders can’t waste time using map chat for decisions that need to be communicated in a split second in the heat of battle, so if you can’t hear what they’re saying, you’ll probably end up getting killed and therefore, not being helpful to the zerg.

Nobody will bite your head off in a server’s teamspeak, everyone treats everyone equally unless you’ve made a bad rep for yourself.

I only really started playing WvW properly like five days ago and I was able to intergrate in to my server’s community quickly and effortlessly.

In my case, it would take something besides a 7-year old Dell running Windows XP.

colesy.8490:

No, WvW players are sick of PvE people doing the following:

1. Taking up spaces that actual players could be using

Oh look, precisely the point I made earlier about attitudes….. Thank you so much for reinforcing why so many avoid anything pvp based.

Because you know, us PvEers are just ‘taking up space’ because we aren’t ‘actual players’ and therefore must not really be doing anything.

colesy.8490:

Nobody will bite your head off in a server’s teamspeak, everyone treats everyone equally unless you’ve made a bad rep for yourself.

I only really started playing WvW properly like five days ago and I was able to intergrate in to my server’s community quickly and effortlessly.

+1 to this things, as limiting factor for way too many PvE (but not only) players.

Playing wvw is like teaming up with the rest of the server. You have to join that shady community that is the WvW crowd of your server. You have to listen, do boring stuff if it’s needed to succeed. You have to ask if you need, wvwers are always keen to share with you tips/tricks and most importantly builds/gear/tactics. You join a WvW server TS and maybe website. You get know with your commanders. Then WvW becomes more than mere sieging and bashing and points and farming, it becomes playing with your server and with other ppl, it becomes fun.

If you can’t get into this mindset and in this “second server community” thing, there’s a huge wall.

(ps: i’m speaking from my experience of introducing first myself and then other ppl at wvw on my server – which as for colesy, is SFR actually).

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

colesy.8490:

No, WvW players are sick of PvE people doing the following:

1. Taking up spaces that actual players could be using

Oh look, precisely the point I made earlier about attitudes….. Thank you so much for reinforcing why so many avoid anything pvp based.

Because you know, us PvEers are just ‘taking up space’ because we aren’t ‘actual players’ and therefore must not really be doing anything.

We’re trying to fight against two other servers, and some players are just aimlessly tagging along with the zerg, not even communicating or listening to commanders, don’t you think WvW players have a right to be annoyed, especially if they’re second or last in the match up?

To give you a PvE example, it’s like with the Shatterer where a billion people afk at the waypoint and like one person does the pre events. In both cases, you just have a bunch of leeches who you don’t want there.

I’d be interested in WvW if:

-it wasn’t as repetitive
-there was a story
-there wasn’t any pvp
-it wasn’t a zerg fest

PvE content is there to be beaten. If you learn the skills you will beat it eventually. As soon as you move to PvP you are immediately in the opposite position. You are there to be horribly beaten up by streetwise PvP players until you learn the skills to get some parity. You might never get the skills to regularly beat the enemy. It needs a different mindset to play.

So how do you get PvE players into adversarial play? The team games are a good start. So would be automatching against other newbie opponents or introductory events. A lot of this is already there.

Some players also don’t enjoy the PvP formats. Holding a point in SPvP. Zerging in WvW. It just doesn’t float their boat.

colesy.8490:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

colesy.8490:

No, WvW players are sick of PvE people doing the following:

1. Taking up spaces that actual players could be using

Oh look, precisely the point I made earlier about attitudes….. Thank you so much for reinforcing why so many avoid anything pvp based.

Because you know, us PvEers are just ‘taking up space’ because we aren’t ‘actual players’ and therefore must not really be doing anything.

We’re trying to fight against two other servers, and some players are just aimlessly tagging along with the zerg, not even communicating or listening to commanders, don’t you think WvW players have a right to be annoyed, especially if they’re second or last in the match up?

To give you a PvE example, it’s like with the Shatterer where a billion people afk at the waypoint and like one person does the pre events. In both cases, you just have a bunch of leeches who you don’t want there.

I do understand the issue with leeches, and no I don’t like them myself. However, in a lot of cases, (probably most) those ‘pve leeches’ in wvw just don’t know what to do.

Heck, I didnt know that each server even HAD a teamspeak, where the heck do I find that? Where is this information kept? Is it pointed out to me when I join? Is it regularly shouted in map chat? (Last time I was in WvW, no such thing was mentioned).

Are they standind around doing nothing, or are they trying to fight? Are they in your commanders squad? Have you tried whispering them to see if maybe they could use a little direction? In many cases the answer is no to almost all those questions.

PvPers are not the most helpful bunch of people, and asking a question in map chat…..holy crap. Ive seen people get less kitten in pve map chat for sheer stupidity.

Jemmi.6058:

I’d be interested in WvW if:

-it wasn’t as repetitive

It’s long term PvP Endgame – also Pvp is inherently repetitive cause is the variety of opponents and their reactions to keep game alive

Jemmi.6058:

-there was a story

If you mean lore, there is. Uninteresting, but there is.

-there wasn’t any pvp

Wut.

Jemmi.6058:

-it wasn’t a zerg fest

It’s a well know issue, but as long as Anet doesn’t do anything this falls in the “deal with it” category, sadly.

colesy.8490:

2. Depending on the server I guess, but not getting on the godkitten teamspeak. Commanders can’t waste time using map chat for decisions that need to be communicated in a split second in the heat of battle, so if you can’t hear what they’re saying, you’ll probably end up getting killed and therefore, not being helpful to the zerg.

Nobody will bite your head off in a server’s teamspeak, everyone treats everyone equally unless you’ve made a bad rep for yourself.

Ah, thank you colesy! You’ve tickled my memory bone!

This is something I couldn’t quite believe when I played beta; most newer MMOs are integrating VOIP, and for GW2 not to be strikes me as somewhat backward.
Personally, my friends and I use Mumble, but I would drop it for proper in-game VOIP in a flash.
There’s a few reasons people new to WvW don’t immediately hop on the server VOIP server, ranging from minor issues to not so minor ones.

They might already be in communication with their friends and guild members.

They might be using different VOIP software and are averse to downloading another.

They may be shy.

They may have had bad experiences with VOIP in the past and do not like the idea of just hopping in to a server populated by strangers.

They may be worried about not understanding the etiquette of the VOIP server.

They may not have a headset.

While willing to download a VOIP client, they may not understand how to set it up, and it’s VERY rare that someone may be prepared to take the time out to take them through set-up on in-game text-chat.

And while setting up the VOIP software offers challenges, further challenges face the uninitiated when trying to set up their system’s audio IO, and others may not be able to help them easily as there are hundreds of different configurations out there.

An in-game VOIP option would help lessen some of these problems while entirely eliminating others.

Edit: For people who don’t know, VOIP stands for “Voice over IP”, where IP means “Internet Protocol”, which very basically is the “language” of the Internet.

Heck, I didnt know that each server even HAD a teamspeak, where the heck do I find that? Where is this information kept? Is it pointed out to me when I join? Is it regularly shouted in map chat? (Last time I was in WvW, no such thing was mentioned).

People normally post it in the chat every now and then, especially when people aren’t following the commander. You will be around quite a few hardcore WvW’ers though so you will have to (gasp) make the effort to ask if there’s a teamspeak channel.

Are they standind around doing nothing, or are they trying to fight? Are they in your commanders squad? Have you tried whispering them to see if maybe they could use a little direction? In many cases the answer is no to almost all those questions.

PvPers are not the most helpful bunch of people, and asking a question in map chat…..holy crap. Ive seen people get less kitten in pve map chat for sheer stupidity.

We don’t have time to whisper individual people to see if they’re following commanders, especially for high tier WvW towers and camps are constantly being assaulted. Plus if we post the teamspeak details in the chat and people still don’t join it… then they either can’t read or they’re purposely choosing not to for whatever their reasons may be (Mungrul brings up a few above).

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

colesy.8490:

We’re trying to fight against two other servers, and some players are just aimlessly tagging along with the zerg, not even communicating or listening to commanders, don’t you think WvW players have a right to be annoyed, especially if they’re second or last in the match up?

To give you a PvE example, it’s like with the Shatterer where a billion people afk at the waypoint and like one person does the pre events. In both cases, you just have a bunch of leeches who you don’t want there.

I do understand the issue with leeches, and no I don’t like them myself. However, in a lot of cases, (probably most) those ‘pve leeches’ in wvw just don’t know what to do.

Heck, I didnt know that each server even HAD a teamspeak, where the heck do I find that? Where is this information kept? Is it pointed out to me when I join? Is it regularly shouted in map chat? (Last time I was in WvW, no such thing was mentioned).

Follow orders? What people talk about in /map or /team makes absolutely no sense to someone who doesn’t already know what’s going on.

- Don’t add more irrelevant, boring +% “arms race” abilities to it, which is just more grind
- Make taking points matter and have a lasting effect, end the “dance of chairs” gameplay
- Make winning matter
- Don’t add more gear stats grind to it;separate future pve gear from wvw

Knowing what’s been done so far, that’s not gonna happen though.

The whole “pointless arrow cart farming zergfest capture point dance” thing IS fun, don’t get me wrong. It’s just not an actual game modality I feel is worth investing in, because it a bore to work up all the gear for all builds to play it “seriously” and because it’s pointless.

Why the hell am i gonna spend so much time organizing with people, having a WvW guild, devising strategies etc if winning and losing all boils down to randomness and grind?

I think of it like a “Whose Line is It Anyway” thing: The points don’t matter, just have a laugh.

colesy.8490:

People normally post it in the chat every now and then, especially when people aren’t following the commander. You will be around quite a few hardcore WvW’ers though so you will have to (gasp) make the effort to ask if there’s a teamspeak channel.

We don’t have time to whisper individual people to see if they’re following commanders, especially for high tier WvW towers and camps are constantly being assaulted. Plus if we post the teamspeak details in the chat and people still don’t join it… then they either can’t read or they’re purposely choosing not to for whatever their reasons may be (Mungrul brings up a few above).

Yeah been here, tried this. I’ve tried asking how I could help, where do you need me etc when joining wvw. More often than not, I get ignored. No mention of a VoiP option (I’m all for ingame voip, gimme anet, gimme), no ‘hey we could use you here’, nothing. Kitten, most wvwers ive met dont even bother to take the time to rez their allies after WINNING the battle, and the waypoint is miles away. Maybe it’s just my server, but stuff like that tends to leave a bad taste in my mouth, and I’m sure others as well.

I really try not to judge the whole batch based on the rotten few, but when more and more of the interactions I have end up being with the ‘rotten few’ it tends to imply that the whole batch is bad.

There’s also a couple of other things that are related more to underlying game mechanic problems which ArenaNet either don’t see as such or are taking too much time to address.
Namely, AoE being blanket limited to 5 targets, whether friend or foe; and condition builds suffering from max stacks and lack of damage to static objects.

The 5 target AoE fix is completely responsible for the ridiculous zerg stacking mechanic that currently rules WvW and shatters immersion. They really need to look at defining max targets on a skill by skill basis.
PvE players will come across this limit a lot less than in WvW, and will suddenly wonder why their awesome Meteor Shower / Chaos Storm / Earthshaker etc. is barely making a dent on the horde of enemies.

And as a lot of WvW is PvDoor/Siege, condition builds are massively underpowered. Realising this and that you’re going to have to grind out a completely new set of gear in order to be even remotely useful is soul destroying.

The problem is there are just different types of people out there. The difference between those people that love PvP and those that hate it is the same as those kids from elementary school that liked to play a game of basketball, versus those that just wanted to shoot the ball. Those people that collect TCGs and show off their collection, versus those that compete in tournaments. People that play only the single player FPS campaigns, and those who still don’t even know about the mental heart attack players had when they thought master chief was dead.

There is a safety net and ease of PvE that you cannot have and never will have in PvP of any game. In PvP you have to rely on your skill versus the skill of another and there is a good chance you are not going to end up on top. Not only that, but there is also a chance you will learn you are no where near as good as you thought you were. When it comes down to it, PvE is “fun” for the sake of fun. While PvP is “fun” for the sake of competition. Some people hate competition you cant change that.

As for people wanting a “tutorial” mode in WvW There is one, on the wiki. Honestly everyone who does WvW had to learn just like you if you don’t know what an acronym means, ask. If you really want to learn you can. My wife is a total carebear and was able to learn WvW in a single day (to get achievements). If you are a PvPer and love competition, just jump in the water. It’s nice.

AndrewSX.3794:

Jemmi.6058:

I’d be interested in WvW if:

-it wasn’t as repetitive

It’s long term PvP Endgame – also Pvp is inherently repetitive cause is the variety of opponents and their reactions to keep game alive

Jemmi.6058:

-there was a story

If you mean lore, there is. Uninteresting, but there is.

-there wasn’t any pvp

Wut.

Jemmi.6058:

-it wasn’t a zerg fest

It’s a well know issue, but as long as Anet doesn’t do anything this falls in the “deal with it” category, sadly.

Sorry, my point is that it is very unlikely to get me into WvW. I PvE because I like PvE and cooperative games. I do not like PvP.

Lore and story aren’t really the same. I prefer story to lore. Basically, story keeps me guessing what happens next. Lore is looking back at what happened before. For this reason, I like the Living Story aspect of this game.

Clockradio.3257:

…to get you excited about WvW?

To be honest there isn’t much. Though I think ArenaNet should do a couple of things to make it better for WvWvW players by divorcing the PvE aspects from it.

Remove the repair bills, remove the requirements to explore it for map completion, remove the Badges of Honor requirement for PvE Legendaries, remove the barely helpful ‘benefits’ to the server for winning points, and just have them own up to the fact this is an open world PvP match.

The devs are trying to force this game mode as an in-between mode but it doesn’t work like that now. This really doesn’t have any lore to it. The only thing I found about it was this is the never ending battlefield in the Mists or something to that effect.

Just strip all the PvE things from it and keep it what it should be: Players beating up one another. That way the PvP players don’t have to deal with the ‘carebears’ that ‘clog up the queue’ and we PvE’rs don’t have to endure the yammering these guys do about ‘bleeding for our server’ or some such mess.

Now I do try to give the game mode a fair chance. However the elitist player attitude, this doesn’t mean everyone just a select few, does sour the game mode. When my server’s home lands are attacked I’ll probably spend more time defending that than some Battleground. I don’t PvP well so I stick to building sieges and repairs. If I do get some blueprints because of rewards, I usually give them to the more hardcore guys because I sure as heck won’t use them!

Make it easier for the PvP to shine through: equipping traits should be free and repairs non existent. These hardcore WvW guys don’t want to hold their nose in PvE world to get money so they can fix their shirts so why should we have to deal with them?

Torpian.9142:

$500 per hour + Hayden Panettiere beside me. Then I’d do it.

Change that to 700 and Lindsey Stirling and I’ll consider.

In order for me to get truly excited about WvW, there would need to be something to do…

Yes, I can explore (and get killed along the way) or unlock waypoints (and get killed along the way) or run with the zerg (and get killed A LOT along the way)…

I would be more tempted to go if maybe there were something akin to hearts or DEs that didn’t involve hanging out and waiting for the zerg to run by so you can die…

Also, the prospect of leveling a character in WvW is dismal. The rewards vs time spent just aren’t there. Yes, you’re pumped up to 80, but you still have to unlock your skills and traits, and you just can’t do that unless you’ve done them in Tyria instead beforehand.

I have a lvl 80, but she’s not really a PvP character. The one PvP-oriented character I have only has about half her traits unlocked. Why should I put her into a situation where the likelyhood of her getting to “real” level 80 through WvW PvP will take 3 times as long and is 7 times the effort?

Make it easier to participate and find some things to do, and I’ll be there!

Jemmi.6058:

Sorry, my point is that it is very unlikely to get me into WvW. I PvE because I like PvE and cooperative games. I do not like PvP.

Lore and story aren’t really the same. I prefer story to lore. Basically, story keeps me guessing what happens next. Lore is looking back at what happened before. For this reason, I like the Living Story aspect of this game.

Yeah, ok, no problem…

Is just that in a thread “What should this massive pvp mode have to appeal you” an answer “No pvp no zergs and a story instead” leaves baffled for a moment. :p

Get rid of zerging, but keep large scale battles by:

1) Making collision penalties between allies, so they actually have to organize themselves instead of mindlessly throwing more bodies at any obstacle
2) Giving active commanders and other leaders more organizational tools, including the ability to draw ranks and movement orders on the field, mark/organize/coordinate/track squads, make call outs for specific classes and builds, and create timers to cue group strategies off of.

Suddenly WvW now takes more than mindless numbers and auto-attack spamming. Numbers still matter, but so do organization and strategy.

When I heard about WvW, I was imagining having epic battles like you see in Helms Deep or the 1000 orc army in the forgotten realms. Instead, we got what looks more like a food fight between a bunch of preschoolers. It’s pathetic, and boring.

AndrewSX.3794:

Jemmi.6058:

Sorry, my point is that it is very unlikely to get me into WvW. I PvE because I like PvE and cooperative games. I do not like PvP.

Lore and story aren’t really the same. I prefer story to lore. Basically, story keeps me guessing what happens next. Lore is looking back at what happened before. For this reason, I like the Living Story aspect of this game.

Yeah, ok, no problem…

Is just that in a thread “What should this massive pvp mode have to appeal you” an answer “No pvp no zergs and a story instead” leaves baffled for a moment. :p

Fair enough It is how I felt at the title “PvE’ers, what would it take for you to PvP?”

Jemmi.6058:

I’d be interested in WvW if:

-it wasn’t as repetitive
-there was a story
-there wasn’t any pvp
-it wasn’t a zerg fest

AKA, if there wasn’t actually a wvw component.

You are basically doing the equivalent of saying “I’d PVE if there were no monsters and I had to kill other players instead”

You could have just said “never, I don’t like pvp.”

Renxian.6982:

Jemmi.6058:

I’d be interested in WvW if:

-it wasn’t as repetitive
-there was a story
-there wasn’t any pvp
-it wasn’t a zerg fest

AKA, if there wasn’t actually a wvw component.

You are basically doing the equivalent of saying “I’d PVE if there were no monsters and I had to kill other players instead”

You could have just said “never, I don’t like pvp.”

That is what I said. Here I can do the same thing to your post.

You are basically doing the equivalent of saying “you are writing way too many points to get your point across.”

You could have just said “Less is more.”

2 things I think would help are:

1) Add a 3rd Character Sheet so you can have a WvW specific build/gear set without having to pay something to switch traits & not take up bank space with WvW focused gear.

One of the biggest problems is berserker gear/builds rule the way in PvE but get crushed in WvW. Not having a free & easy way to switch to something more appropriate I think is very offputting to a lot of PvE’ers. Especially if they go in and get completely owned over & over again since their gear/build isn’t viable for WvW.

2) On Thursday of each week make available a PvE clone of the borderlands maps & EB (the server winning at daily reset Wednesday night is the side that gets access to the PvE EB) that are fully filled PvE zones with a map wide meta event designed around players capturing objectives through NPC assisted siege warfare. Think breakout event on crack. The point this would serve is to get players use to the various aspects of how WvW works from capturing objectives, getting supply, building siege, and then using it to assault a tower/keep.

If the events are done well and show how much fun siege warfare can be I think it would make it easier for PvE’ers to step into WvW and feel comfortable since they would at least have an idea of what they need to do.

I primarily play PvE, and have done the mists once before (which was actually a lot of fun, even though I wasn’t particularly good at it). I find the idea of WvW to be really exciting, but what’s keeping me from going in there is having absolutely no idea what’s going on. I hung out at the entrance in EB at one point and watched the chat, hoping I may be able to at least catch some things (I’ve watched a couple of WvW youtube videos), and I realized how overwhelming it seemed. Which, in itself, seems pretty fun, but extremely intimidating.

I’m sure I’ll go in there one day, but for now, I’ll be sticking to PvE.

Some people just don’t like PvP. Other people just don’t like PvE. The way to make people who don’t like PvP play PvP is to not make it PvP. I.e.: You don’t.

I’ve been hitting up WvW lately for Map Completion and badges, because my Elementalist wants Meteorlogicus and my Mesmer wants Bolt. I think of those Legendary Weapons as PvE achievements, and frankly I resent being forced into PvP to get them. The fact is, I’m actually having kind of a good time in WvW about half the time (depending on whether the commanders display some grasp of tactics, or whether they just furnish a blue dot to swarm behind), but the fact that I’m there to complete an unrelated goal prevents me from examining the experience objectively.

So… I’d be a lot more likely to indulge in WvW if it were completely detached from my PvE experience. The fact that it intrudes even this relatively small amount on my PvE play taints the entire experience for me.

Although I play wvw quite a bit, I think the biggest reason that keeps people from playing wvw is being unable to play it. You can’t play a game if its unplayable.

Aka, fix the lag!

i play all of the 3 gamestyle available:
pve, pvp, wvwvw.

but i mostly hate wvwvw because there is no real reason to do what you do there.
your presence alone doesn’t make any difference, you cannot run alone unless you are a thief, you spend effort, time and money on keeping towers and 10 minutes later are gone.
and you run, up and down, for hours. when 2 zergs fight is the one lagging less that win.
tactics require numbers that some server doesn’t have others have enough to outmann you on every single map.

wvwvw is the tpvp in huge maps with more effort to cap point, the stats of the pve and countless people doing nothing most of the time (or shouting)
you do this all over for hours for no reason, than the night fall and everything change, if you were winning you lose everything if you were losing you can get some point to catch up.

now, while pve give you stories, bosses, rewards and dungeon and multiple tasks for every game style, tpvp makes of fast tournement and immediate rewards his strenght, wvwvw is almost useless, you spend time there and all you got is less money in your pocket, skills useless elsewhere, and nothing to cheer, and it’s the same content and maps for ever. no matter what, it’s alwasy the same, you go, if you have bigger number you win, otherwise you lose…
how can this be fun?

edit: if they give us rewards like the achievement points now do, you would see a flow of people kittening here, but also a flow of more people in wvwvw, even if it is so much boring i would do it

I’m never likely to be a daily WvW player. However, I went on a guild WvW night last week. The guild had contributed money to one player to get a commander title. This person sponsored the guild WvW night. During the process, he explained things to us, like where to go, what to do, when to do it, and more importantly why to do it. I find that if I understand why something works, I’m a lot more likely to enjoy myself. We were able to defeat somewhat larger zergs, and now I know why.

To get more people into WvW, I believe decent commanders need to invest in guild events during which they teach people new to the game mode. It might pay dividends.

You can’t really enjoy the complexities of fighting another human being if a simple scripted A.I. still gives you a hard time.

Strict pve’ers are people still enjoying the tutorial, in my opinion. Theres nothing wrong with that once you realize it for what it is.

Lag, lag that’s what it is. Not everyone got a chance to play with decent enough pc that would actually give us a chance to fight in massive fights, not just watch a slideshow of how we are miserably killed with close to no option for resistence.

Wanze.8410:

I never was into wvw or similar stuff in other mmo´s. In GW2 I only went in there to get map completion first and then my 500 badges for my gift of battle. After spending more time in wvw, I started liking it and now play wvw more than 60% of my time.

But when I started out, wvw wasnt as competitive as it is right now. These days its harder for new players to get a foothold in wvw without being screamed at for beginners faults.

I think the wvw community can do alot more to make new players feel welcome and important. For example, experienced commanders can offer weekly training events where you take 10 new players to a borderland and do the breakout event. If you focus on explaining alot instead of rushing to the next objective, they will have a way more exciting first experience and might stick around.

A big plus-ONE to this. ….ALL of the WvW players in this thread,
who keep Writing off PvE’ers, NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO THIS

When I quit this game (b/c the WvW was so disappointing) and went and played Planetside2 instead… one of the Outfits I joined did this sort of activity on a regular basis and it probably sounds like a really trivial thing, but it’s amazing what a difference it can make if you can say the right things that get new players to become part of it and gain the confidence they desperately need to actually learn from their mistakes instead of getting frustrated and overwhelmed. Granted, you need really strong or atleast really charismatic leadership to pull it off… but “likable personalities” has always been what keeps people actually playing MMO’s together. Therefore it’s just as much up to the Community also to improve WvW (and maybe even find a way to CHANGE THE META AWAY FROM ZERGING / “winning at all costs” somehow … possibly with Tac-Ops nights or coordinated efforts to balance out populations better and keep Griefers out of the Jump Puzzles too)

I actually got Banned from Guru by their Tryhard GvG moderators for pointing this sort of super obvious thing out back when GvG itself was Floundering and they all insisted it was b/c it was something Anet wasn’t doing, or constantly telling everyone else in the community they’re baddy-n00bs who HAVE to accept the GvG Meta as it was intended by the Elite players. Well they were wrong about Anet there, b/c Anet was still making changes to Skills every 3 months then. And it clearly wasn’t the new players’ faults either. Eventually those mods lost their positions of power as well and history has judged all of them for their Hubris. GvG finally started making gains once again when community-level efforts were made to make it, AND THE META, more casual again & inviting to new players and skilled PvE’ers alike. Unfortunately, It just came too late for it to matter enough b/c by then, there was only 3 months left before GW2 went to Beta Events :p

1- Lag completely gone, playing on a 1.4k gaming rig with 17fps inacceptable

2- The fee for fixing your armor when you die should be gone

3- The minimal quality item dropped by a player should be Masterwork with plenty of rares and exotics drop more than once per 4 months…

WvW has no goal unless you care about useless titles so a goal is what i’d want in wvw above all else/.

Remove repair costs and/or make it as profitable as PvE. =P Or have nice skins you can only acquire through WvW that can be used in regular PvE. Right now, there’s only the one Invader set from badges so if you’re not into it, there’s not much incentive.