Guild Wars 2

Suddenflame.2601:

(…)

Demon Souls, Dark Souls, and soon Dark Souls 2 are not played for loot but rather for the challenges they present. If you went into Demon souls with a Loot mentality you will find the game boring but go into the game with my achievement mentality and the game is exciting. I am not a lazy designers delight but rather there nightmare.(…)

Demon Souls, Dark Souls … Action Role Playing Games.

Heh, I don’t play SimCity for the loot either. Which leads me to the question, why all over sudden compare the situation at hand with a different genre at all?

If you have to compare, then stick with MMORPGs.

Obviously I like this game, otherwise I wouldn’t be here, but there certainly is room for improvement and I am still waiting for the pre-cursor hunt and hopefully that will be the answer.

Otherwise I can assure you, I never had to even gather that many materials for crafting ever, in any online game. Well, maybe I would have had to if I had stayed (thinking AION).

Zommoros, if you read this, won’t you drop me an ascended greatsword.
My friends all wield legendaries, I must make amends.

Afya.5842:

RNG is bad in GW2 because precursor drop everywhere. I wouldn’t mind people getting BDS the first time in SOO because they at least took the effort to go in the dungeon. But thing is not the same in GW2, it is possible to get precursor @100AP, in queensdale. It makes me jelly. And fotm RNG is now worse because it feels the same chance of getting skin/box from 1x to 4×.

Precursor dropping everywhere with different chances of dropping is so that every type of player has a chance to get a precursor. By limiting it and removing it from a subsection of players is something that Anet does not want to do. So if you can come up with a system that would allow all types of players be able to get a precursor I bet Anet would be thankful.

The reason why FOTM is designed that way is because 1x is where skilled play begins and rewards for doing it where as 1-9 are just practice. Anything above 1x is about the challenge rather than the reward. They added exclusive items for higher fractals, but drop chance is low for them but they still about the challenge in comparison to the reward. Its designed more so for people with my mentality of Fun does not need loot.

Distaste.4801:

Suddenflame.2601:

To everyone complaining about Random Number Generator (RNG) and grind in Guild Wars 2 (GW2): You guys need to play more Massively Multiplayer Online Roly Playing Games (MMORPG). Lets take a Free-to-Play (FTP) game such as Forsaken World (FW) for instance. To get any where in the game you need certain items to progress. The RNG in that game is so bad that many people use the in-game botting system to farm the items that they need. Basically meaning your character needs to be logged in for days on end (24/7) just to get items that you need.

World of Warcraft (WoW) a subscription based MMORPG that makes you spend weeks to months performing raids to get best-in-slot gear. This is repeated often for new best-in-slot gear is added often. During these raids it is not guaranteed that you will get the piece you need. Some raids you can only perform once a week making you wait for another chance (hence chance) at getting the piece you need. To get other items in the game you need to compete with other players (as drops are not shared between the players) to grind to get items since drop rates are low to force you to grind.

Perfect World (PW) is similar to FW (made by the same company) but has even worse grind and drop rates to the point you have to kill monsters for hours or even days just to get items for a single quest. You basically sit there for hours killing a specific mob in a specific area for hours to months (depends on how lucky you are) just hoping you will get that one item.

In GW2, precursors are pretty common as evidence by the number of people with legendaries in LA. Also, money is easy to obtain in GW2 where as in WoW, FW, and PW money takes forever to obtain. WoW, FW, and PW require you to grind for long periods of time inorder to obtain enough money to buy anything useful.

So if you want to complain go ahead, but I suggest you play Forsaken World and Perfect World first and make the comparison. By saying GW2 is grindy or has terrible RNG makes most MMOs look like bloody nightmare. By saying GW2 is grindy or has terrible RNG you are making a comparison of a form. If you want to say GW2 is grindy which MMORPG has less grind? Which MMORPG has better RNG?

WoW, FW, and PW are worse on these two points so if your making a comparison with these games you are insane! Just for your information I have never gotten a precursor in 1500+ hours of playing Guild Wars 2.

There is a reason most of us aren’t playing PW or FW, their developer is known to make extremely grindy games geared towards the asian market.

Now WoW was actually less grindy than GW2 currently is. Putting aside the week lockouts, you would still spend a whole lot less actual game time to achieve your items. Even if you figure 3 hours per raid, 24 epics per raid and 40 raiders(got even easier to gear with only 25 people) you’re looking at needing ~600 epics(15 per person iirc). That is 25 raids or 75 hours. Now you’re going to toss in RNG but once tokens were added this wasn’t nearly as bad. You can also look at other areas as well because the best gear didn’t just come from raiding, PvP offered quite a few items that were up near the top as well and could be easily obtained in much less time. Just assuming you got it all raiding it’s 5 hours per item. When I went back to WoW for BC I leveled 1-70 and was fully geared in BIS items in 4 months. BC made things every easier since it was now a 25 man raid and still 3 epics per boss. That would take the time down to ~50 hours.

Lets just look at ascended for a minute. Just to level all 3 weapon crafts to 500 and 1 armor type you’re looking at 550g. At even 5g an hour of farming that’s 110 hours just to be able to craft the stuff you want. Then you have the armor/weapon costs at 60g per piece of armor and 40g per weapon. 3 weapons would put you around 120g and 6 pieces of armor would be 360g for a subtotal of 480g. Combined with the cost of grinding to 500 crafting that’s 1030g. Going back to that 5g an hour you’re looking at 206 hours for an entire set of gear.

So 206 vs 75 vs 50….hmmm. Even if RNG in WoW literally doubles or the time you still get your gear faster.

And add in the fact that raids and battlegrounds offer an actual, FUN gearing process and compare it to the tedious crafting grind here. Guess who wins?

laokoko.7403:

To me it’s really the context.

If you look around, everyone is doing the same thing everyday.

Why do you have 10 characters?

5 races
2 genders per race
so 10 characters

Would have stopped at 8 since there are only 8 classes but wanted to have a full set.
None of my characters are mules.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

And add in the fact that raids and battlegrounds offer an actual, FUN gearing process and compare it to the tedious crafting grind here. Guess who wins?

This is actually specifically what I meant. It’s not that there are grinds. Its a.) how long they take, and b.) the context of which you have to do them in. Grinding gold for a legendary is boring. Killing various bosses from multiple places, more forgiving RNG and a shorter run for each piece and with the occasional chance you get a piece you may not have even been working on yet right off a boss makes it fun and exciting. Your 5,636th run around FGS isn’t very epic anymore.

Rouven.7409:

Suddenflame.2601:

(…)

Demon Souls, Dark Souls, and soon Dark Souls 2 are not played for loot but rather for the challenges they present. If you went into Demon souls with a Loot mentality you will find the game boring but go into the game with my achievement mentality and the game is exciting. I am not a lazy designers delight but rather there nightmare.(…)

Demon Souls, Dark Souls … Action Role Playing Games.

Heh, I don’t play SimCity for the loot either. Which leads me to the question, why all over sudden compare the situation at hand with a different genre at all?

If you have to compare, then stick with MMORPGs.

Obviously I like this game, otherwise I wouldn’t be here, but there certainly is room for improvement and I am still waiting for the pre-cursor hunt and hopefully that will be the answer.

Otherwise I can assure you, I never had to even gather that many materials for crafting ever, in any online game. Well, maybe I would have had to if I had stayed (thinking AION).

Zommoros, if you read this, won’t you drop me an ascended greatsword.
My friends all wield legendaries, I must make amends.

They are an RPG and GW2 is an MMORPG. They share fundamental roots where as your little example of Sim City is in a completely different genre with no similar roots at all. There is always room for improvement but to know what to improve on exactly requires a healthy in-depth discussion such as, on the first page about the party and squad loot distribution system.

ronpierce.2760:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

And add in the fact that raids and battlegrounds offer an actual, FUN gearing process and compare it to the tedious crafting grind here. Guess who wins?

This is actually specifically what I meant. It’s not that there are grinds. Its a.) how long they take, and b.) the context of which you have to do them in. Grinding gold for a legendary is boring. Killing various bosses from multiple places, more forgiving RNG and a shorter run for each piece and with the occasional chance you get a piece you may not have even been working on yet right off a boss makes it fun and exciting. Your 5,636th run around FGS isn’t very epic anymore.

Cure for this is stop grinding and play for fun. Legendary is a long term goal (or at least should be) by rushing it your only hurting yourself.

Suddenflame.2601:

laokoko.7403:

To me it’s really the context.

If you look around, everyone is doing the same thing everyday.

Why do you have 10 characters?

5 races
2 genders per race
so 10 characters

Would have stopped at 8 since there are only 8 classes but wanted to have a full set.
None of my characters are mules.

Exactly. I have 8 level80 with full map completion and personal story done. And a total of 13 level80.

If this game actually have an endgame to play, people won’t have that many level80. Since this game have no endgame, people end up doing AC or COF or fractal everyday which is the same thing they did 1 year ago.

The guy above your post said it “And add in the fact that raids and battlegrounds offer an actual, FUN gearing process and compare it to the tedious crafting grind here. Guess who wins?”

This game is in fact very casual. But when you try to play it hardcore you wind up doing the same thing everyday. “same daily, same dungeon, same farming”.

Suddenflame.2601:

They are an RPG and GW2 is an MMORPG. They share fundamental roots where as your little example of Sim City is in a completely different genre with no roots at all. There is always room for improvement but to know what to improve on exactly requires a healthy in-depth discussion such as, on the first page about the party and squad loot distribution system.

Yes, I did do that on purpose.
Still you cannot compare that, stick with the same genre. The point is as moot as if I would point out differences from single player RPGs like Skyrim.

They do not share the same design concepts.

laokoko.7403:

Suddenflame.2601:

laokoko.7403:

To me it’s really the context.

If you look around, everyone is doing the same thing everyday.

Why do you have 10 characters?

5 races
2 genders per race
so 10 characters

Would have stopped at 8 since there are only 8 classes but wanted to have a full set.
None of my characters are mules.

Exactly. I have 8 level80 with full map completion and personal story done. And a total of 13 level80.

If this game actually have an endgame to play, people won’t have that many level80. Since this game have no endgame, people end up doing AC or COF or fractal everyday which is the same thing they did 1 year ago.

The guy above your post said it “And add in the fact that raids and battlegrounds offer an actual, FUN gearing process and compare it to the tedious crafting grind here. Guess who wins?”

This game is in fact very casual. But when you try to play it hardcore you wind up doing the same thing everyday. “same daily, same dungeon, same farming”.

Agree on your last point.

GW2 endgame however from what i seen is do what you want type of end game where the ultimate goal is to have fun which is different from previous MMORPGs. This is causing many of the issues since most people are coming from games where the goal is set in place long before they even started playing. Creating their own goals rather than goals placed for them.

If they added say:
30% chance per dungeon boss to drop a random Account Bound exotic item.
Last bosses have a 25% chance to drop an Ascended AB item.

The game would be more fun. Here’s why:

-More shots at instant gratification.
- Livens up boss kills in dungeons.
- Gives more stuff to toss in the mystic toilet and doesn’t hurt the market on items as they won’t be sellable.
- Allows people to gear even for exotics without literally just having to spend gold on it all.
- Wouldn’t be TOO fast since the stats would be random and usually people want specific item types/stats.

Literally this would make me run dungeons a LOT more. They don’t have to make everything tradable just to let it drop and I think that’s one of the biggest issues we’re seeing and why stuff has such low drop rates…

Rouven.7409:

Suddenflame.2601:

They are an RPG and GW2 is an MMORPG. They share fundamental roots where as your little example of Sim City is in a completely different genre with no roots at all. There is always room for improvement but to know what to improve on exactly requires a healthy in-depth discussion such as, on the first page about the party and squad loot distribution system.

Yes, I did do that on purpose.
Still you cannot compare that, stick with the same genre. The point is as moot as if I would point out differences from single player RPGs like Skyrim.

They do not share the same design concepts.

They share many design concepts actually lol. As RPGs share many commonalities design concepts are built around those. MMORPGs are not too different as they have to be designed the same. An MMORPG is only slightly different from a single player RPG.

I can take GW2, FW, PW, WoW, and other MMORPGs. Remove the network capabilities, add NPC henchmen, and adjust the events to make them easier to accompany the henchmen it would become a single player RPG. Main differences between an RPG and an MMORPG are, there is an active persistent economy and other people which content is designed around. Hence content not concept.

Suddenflame.2601:

laokoko.7403:

Suddenflame.2601:

laokoko.7403:

To me it’s really the context.

If you look around, everyone is doing the same thing everyday.

Why do you have 10 characters?

5 races
2 genders per race
so 10 characters

Would have stopped at 8 since there are only 8 classes but wanted to have a full set.
None of my characters are mules.

Exactly. I have 8 level80 with full map completion and personal story done. And a total of 13 level80.

If this game actually have an endgame to play, people won’t have that many level80. Since this game have no endgame, people end up doing AC or COF or fractal everyday which is the same thing they did 1 year ago.

The guy above your post said it “And add in the fact that raids and battlegrounds offer an actual, FUN gearing process and compare it to the tedious crafting grind here. Guess who wins?”

This game is in fact very casual. But when you try to play it hardcore you wind up doing the same thing everyday. “same daily, same dungeon, same farming”.

Agree on your last point.

GW2 endgame however from what i seen is do what you want type of end game where the ultimate goal is to have fun which is different from previous MMORPGs. This is causing many of the issues since most people are coming from games where the goal is set in place long before they even started playing. Creating their own goals rather than goals placed for them.

I don’t even know what goals you are talking about. There are nothing to do.

There are no content casual players can’t do. If I already can do every content as a casual players, why would I want to play hardcore.

ronpierce.2760:

If they added say:
30% chance per dungeon boss to drop a random Account Bound exotic item.
Last bosses have a 25% chance to drop an Ascended AB item.

The game would be more fun. Here’s why:

-More shots at instant gratification.
- Livens up boss kills in dungeons.
- Gives more stuff to toss in the mystic toilet and doesn’t hurt the market on items as they won’t be sellable.
- Allows people to gear even for exotics without literally just having to spend gold on it all.
- Wouldn’t be TOO fast since the stats would be random and usually people want specific item types/stats.

Literally this would make me run dungeons a LOT more. They don’t have to make everything tradable just to let it drop and I think that’s one of the biggest issues we’re seeing and why stuff has such low drop rates…

You do realize what you suggest would totally destroy the economy? At 30% drop rate of exotics inflation in the economy would occur drastically as people would just salvage them constantly. Also at 30% drop rate people would just farm there rather than buy items off TP. There is a lot more factors to an economy than you realize.

Your looking for instant gratification which in the short-run is good but in the long run (in this case wouldn’t be that long) would cause more trouble than good. Look at this way getting sex with a random person is instant gratification. You get into a relationship with a GF for a Long term gratification though. Its something you work on and build towards and than maintain.

laokoko.7403:

Suddenflame.2601:

laokoko.7403:

Suddenflame.2601:

laokoko.7403:

To me it’s really the context.

If you look around, everyone is doing the same thing everyday.

Why do you have 10 characters?

5 races
2 genders per race
so 10 characters

Would have stopped at 8 since there are only 8 classes but wanted to have a full set.
None of my characters are mules.

Exactly. I have 8 level80 with full map completion and personal story done. And a total of 13 level80.

If this game actually have an endgame to play, people won’t have that many level80. Since this game have no endgame, people end up doing AC or COF or fractal everyday which is the same thing they did 1 year ago.

The guy above your post said it “And add in the fact that raids and battlegrounds offer an actual, FUN gearing process and compare it to the tedious crafting grind here. Guess who wins?”

This game is in fact very casual. But when you try to play it hardcore you wind up doing the same thing everyday. “same daily, same dungeon, same farming”.

Agree on your last point.

GW2 endgame however from what i seen is do what you want type of end game where the ultimate goal is to have fun which is different from previous MMORPGs. This is causing many of the issues since most people are coming from games where the goal is set in place long before they even started playing. Creating their own goals rather than goals placed for them.

I don’t even know what goals you are talking about. There are nothing to do.

There are no content casual players can’t do. If I already can do every content as a casual players, why would I want to play hardcore.

You make your own goals so I can’t help you there. I have my own goals made.

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

If they added say:
30% chance per dungeon boss to drop a random Account Bound exotic item.
Last bosses have a 25% chance to drop an Ascended AB item.

The game would be more fun. Here’s why:

-More shots at instant gratification.
- Livens up boss kills in dungeons.
- Gives more stuff to toss in the mystic toilet and doesn’t hurt the market on items as they won’t be sellable.
- Allows people to gear even for exotics without literally just having to spend gold on it all.
- Wouldn’t be TOO fast since the stats would be random and usually people want specific item types/stats.

Literally this would make me run dungeons a LOT more. They don’t have to make everything tradable just to let it drop and I think that’s one of the biggest issues we’re seeing and why stuff has such low drop rates…

You do realize what you suggest would totally destroy the economy? At 30% drop rate of exotics inflation in the economy would occur drastically as people would just salvage them constantly. Also at 30% drop rate people would just farm there rather than buy items off TP. There is a lot more factors to an economy than you realize.

Exotics would drop, sure, but at least people would get to PLAY THE GAME to get what they want. That’s the problem right there. This game is RAN by buying your way through the game…

ronpierce.2760:

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

If they added say:
30% chance per dungeon boss to drop a random Account Bound exotic item.
Last bosses have a 25% chance to drop an Ascended AB item.

The game would be more fun. Here’s why:

-More shots at instant gratification.
- Livens up boss kills in dungeons.
- Gives more stuff to toss in the mystic toilet and doesn’t hurt the market on items as they won’t be sellable.
- Allows people to gear even for exotics without literally just having to spend gold on it all.
- Wouldn’t be TOO fast since the stats would be random and usually people want specific item types/stats.

Literally this would make me run dungeons a LOT more. They don’t have to make everything tradable just to let it drop and I think that’s one of the biggest issues we’re seeing and why stuff has such low drop rates…

You do realize what you suggest would totally destroy the economy? At 30% drop rate of exotics inflation in the economy would occur drastically as people would just salvage them constantly. Also at 30% drop rate people would just farm there rather than buy items off TP. There is a lot more factors to an economy than you realize.

Exotics would drop, sure, but at least people would get to PLAY THE GAME to get what they want. That’s the problem right there. This game is RAN by buying your way through the game…

Not everyone buys their way through the game. Its a personal choice that people make to buy or not to buy. By the sounds of it you did the personal choice to buy. I did not choose to buy my way through the game. Most of my materials I mined myself. I gain money from excess materials that I sell off in bulk (i got 1000 in collection so i sell 750 every time i reach 1000). I do not go out of my way to mine. I mine as I find them for the fun of it.

If you do not want to buy your way through the game then don’t it is as simple as that.

Suddenflame.2601:

They share many design concepts actually lol. As RPGs share many commonalities design concepts are built around those. MMORPGs are not too different as they have to be designed the same. An MMORPG is only slightly different from a single player RPG.

I can take GW2, FW, PW, WoW, and other MMORPGs. Remove the network capabilities, add NPC henchmen, and adjust the events to make them easier to accompany the henchmen it would become a single player RPG. Main differences between an RPG and an MMORPG are, there is an active persistent economy and other people which content is designed around. Hence content not concept.

Ah, exactly. So since there are the two main differences playing into this, namely the economy and other players – both tied into loot/rng – stick to comparing that.

Because that’s what your thread is about.

Let’s not get into the details of why they are different and why other genres can tell other stories, allow for a more diverse character development/customization etc etc.

Rouven.7409:

Suddenflame.2601:

They share many design concepts actually lol. As RPGs share many commonalities design concepts are built around those. MMORPGs are not too different as they have to be designed the same. An MMORPG is only slightly different from a single player RPG.

I can take GW2, FW, PW, WoW, and other MMORPGs. Remove the network capabilities, add NPC henchmen, and adjust the events to make them easier to accompany the henchmen it would become a single player RPG. Main differences between an RPG and an MMORPG are, there is an active persistent economy and other people which content is designed around. Hence content not concept.

Ah, exactly. So since there are the two main differences playing into this, namely the economy and other players – both tied into loot/rng – stick to comparing that.

Because that’s what your thread is about.

Let’s not get into the details of why they are different and why other genres can tell other stories, allow for a more diverse character development/customization etc etc.

Other games have loot as well such as Diablo and Diablo 2 which are not MMORPGs, but also have an economy and ability to play with other players. They are not as different as you want to believe they are. MMORPGs are highly similar to MRPGs which are closely related and 90% of those are mostly (SP)RPG. Loot and grindiness is the discussion of this forum (along with other random things apparently). RNG has little to do with other players as Diablo has RNG, Skyrim has RNG, etc.

Economy however is a main issue here as it is made up of Grindiness and RNG aspects. People are wanting less RNG and less Grindiness which by the way are the only two factors keeping the game’s economy from hyper inflation and devaluing of items. Basically by performing both the prices of items would fall (certain items), but the cost of other items (permanent bank access) would rise.

Grindness in this case of the game is only created due to RNG being as it is. People grind to get specific items which than they sell or use. If people kept getting said item repeatedly or were guaranteed said item the value of that item would plummet harder than a boulder in a bottomless ocean.

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

If they added say:
30% chance per dungeon boss to drop a random Account Bound exotic item.
Last bosses have a 25% chance to drop an Ascended AB item.

The game would be more fun. Here’s why:

-More shots at instant gratification.
- Livens up boss kills in dungeons.
- Gives more stuff to toss in the mystic toilet and doesn’t hurt the market on items as they won’t be sellable.
- Allows people to gear even for exotics without literally just having to spend gold on it all.
- Wouldn’t be TOO fast since the stats would be random and usually people want specific item types/stats.

Literally this would make me run dungeons a LOT more. They don’t have to make everything tradable just to let it drop and I think that’s one of the biggest issues we’re seeing and why stuff has such low drop rates…

You do realize what you suggest would totally destroy the economy? At 30% drop rate of exotics inflation in the economy would occur drastically as people would just salvage them constantly. Also at 30% drop rate people would just farm there rather than buy items off TP. There is a lot more factors to an economy than you realize.

Exotics would drop, sure, but at least people would get to PLAY THE GAME to get what they want. That’s the problem right there. This game is RAN by buying your way through the game…

Not everyone buys their way through the game. Its a personal choice that people make to buy or not to buy. By the sounds of it you did the personal choice to buy. I did not choose to buy my way through the game. Most of my materials I mined myself. I gain money from excess materials that I sell off in bulk (i got 1000 in collection so i sell 750 every time i reach 1000). I do not go out of my way to mine. I mine as I find them for the fun of it.

If you do not want to buy your way through the game then don’t it is as simple as that.

You didn’t buy any gear for any of your alts? You DO have to buy stuff from the trading post because drops are so inconsistent that you’d never PROPERLY gear up if you didn’t, at least not without spending a lot of money on other things like leveling crafts etc, which isn’t worth it since it’s cheaper/faster to just buy everything you’d want to play competitively right from the trader. Then the next part of the game is skins, which are some of the worst grinds. The dungeon ones aren’t bad, but anything beyond exotic (and a few of the better exotics) are very very bad.

Suddenflame.2601:

laokoko.7403:

Suddenflame.2601:

laokoko.7403:

Suddenflame.2601:

laokoko.7403:

To me it’s really the context.

If you look around, everyone is doing the same thing everyday.

Why do you have 10 characters?

5 races
2 genders per race
so 10 characters

Would have stopped at 8 since there are only 8 classes but wanted to have a full set.
None of my characters are mules.

Exactly. I have 8 level80 with full map completion and personal story done. And a total of 13 level80.

If this game actually have an endgame to play, people won’t have that many level80. Since this game have no endgame, people end up doing AC or COF or fractal everyday which is the same thing they did 1 year ago.

The guy above your post said it “And add in the fact that raids and battlegrounds offer an actual, FUN gearing process and compare it to the tedious crafting grind here. Guess who wins?”

This game is in fact very casual. But when you try to play it hardcore you wind up doing the same thing everyday. “same daily, same dungeon, same farming”.

Agree on your last point.

GW2 endgame however from what i seen is do what you want type of end game where the ultimate goal is to have fun which is different from previous MMORPGs. This is causing many of the issues since most people are coming from games where the goal is set in place long before they even started playing. Creating their own goals rather than goals placed for them.

I don’t even know what goals you are talking about. There are nothing to do.

There are no content casual players can’t do. If I already can do every content as a casual players, why would I want to play hardcore.

You make your own goals so I can’t help you there. I have my own goals made.

I don’t have any goals. All the goals are completed 1 years ago. It is so casual, I completed all my goals 1 year ago.

ronpierce.2760:

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

If they added say:
30% chance per dungeon boss to drop a random Account Bound exotic item.
Last bosses have a 25% chance to drop an Ascended AB item.

The game would be more fun. Here’s why:

-More shots at instant gratification.
- Livens up boss kills in dungeons.
- Gives more stuff to toss in the mystic toilet and doesn’t hurt the market on items as they won’t be sellable.
- Allows people to gear even for exotics without literally just having to spend gold on it all.
- Wouldn’t be TOO fast since the stats would be random and usually people want specific item types/stats.

Literally this would make me run dungeons a LOT more. They don’t have to make everything tradable just to let it drop and I think that’s one of the biggest issues we’re seeing and why stuff has such low drop rates…

You do realize what you suggest would totally destroy the economy? At 30% drop rate of exotics inflation in the economy would occur drastically as people would just salvage them constantly. Also at 30% drop rate people would just farm there rather than buy items off TP. There is a lot more factors to an economy than you realize.

Exotics would drop, sure, but at least people would get to PLAY THE GAME to get what they want. That’s the problem right there. This game is RAN by buying your way through the game…

Not everyone buys their way through the game. Its a personal choice that people make to buy or not to buy. By the sounds of it you did the personal choice to buy. I did not choose to buy my way through the game. Most of my materials I mined myself. I gain money from excess materials that I sell off in bulk (i got 1000 in collection so i sell 750 every time i reach 1000). I do not go out of my way to mine. I mine as I find them for the fun of it.

If you do not want to buy your way through the game then don’t it is as simple as that.

You didn’t buy any gear for any of your alts? You DO have to buy stuff from the trading post because drops are so inconsistent that you’d never PROPERLY gear up if you didn’t, at least not without spending a lot of money on other things like leveling crafts etc, which isn’t worth it since it’s cheaper/faster to just buy everything you’d want to play competitively right from the trader. Then the next part of the game is skins, which are some of the worst grinds. The dungeon ones aren’t bad, but anything beyond exotic (and a few of the better exotics) are very very bad.

Play competitively in a noncompetitive game. Hell my lvl30 masterwork armour mesmer killed lvl80 exotic armour warriors, mesmers, etc. I do buy occasionally (very very rarely) items off of the trading post if I am too lazy or don’t feel like crafting using my materials. Materials I farm for. I have bought some in the past but not for the last 4-5 months i havn’t bought any. I only buy when its cheap which since ascended has become more popular I havn’t. So I just gather my own materials and make it myself.

My 2 main characters did not buy anything from the TP. 2 sets of exotic armour each. 1 set of ascended weapons (on one). Hell my ranger (first main) reached Orr before there was any lvl80 gear to use on the TP.

laokoko.7403:

Suddenflame.2601:

laokoko.7403:

Suddenflame.2601:

laokoko.7403:

Suddenflame.2601:

laokoko.7403:

To me it’s really the context.

If you look around, everyone is doing the same thing everyday.

Why do you have 10 characters?

5 races
2 genders per race
so 10 characters

Would have stopped at 8 since there are only 8 classes but wanted to have a full set.
None of my characters are mules.

Exactly. I have 8 level80 with full map completion and personal story done. And a total of 13 level80.

If this game actually have an endgame to play, people won’t have that many level80. Since this game have no endgame, people end up doing AC or COF or fractal everyday which is the same thing they did 1 year ago.

The guy above your post said it “And add in the fact that raids and battlegrounds offer an actual, FUN gearing process and compare it to the tedious crafting grind here. Guess who wins?”

This game is in fact very casual. But when you try to play it hardcore you wind up doing the same thing everyday. “same daily, same dungeon, same farming”.

Agree on your last point.

GW2 endgame however from what i seen is do what you want type of end game where the ultimate goal is to have fun which is different from previous MMORPGs. This is causing many of the issues since most people are coming from games where the goal is set in place long before they even started playing. Creating their own goals rather than goals placed for them.

I don’t even know what goals you are talking about. There are nothing to do.

There are no content casual players can’t do. If I already can do every content as a casual players, why would I want to play hardcore.

You make your own goals so I can’t help you there. I have my own goals made.

I don’t have any goals. All the goals are completed 1 years ago. It is so casual, I completed all my goals 1 year ago.

You need to make more goals than lol

Suddenflame.2601:

TooBz.3065:

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

Just because some games have even worse designers doesn’t make the rng and grind in gw2 acceptable…. It just means it’s not the worst contender. Also GW2 is aimed for a us/eu audience, the audiences who least enjoy long terrible grinds.

Name one MMORPG that has better RNG and grind?

Why should we have to? I don’t see anyone saying that the RNG and grind is comparatively bad, just that it’s objectively bad.

The fact that everyone else is worse is irrelevant, unless you care to explain how it’s not?

I think a better argument is that the amount of grind and RNG is no worse than the minimum required to keep people in the game.

By saying something is bad you have to have something to subjectively compare it to. Comparison in this case is not objective but subjective.

If everyone else is worse than this game is the best and if every other game is worse than why do people play them and not complain as much in the forms. There is a reason for this comparison that you failed to comprehend.

A subjective comparison can lead to an objective solution to the problem. Such as by bringing out why a game has better RNG and grind can determine what you subjectively want to see in a game.

The reason these forums are so much more active with complaints is because the devs in this game are the most communitive devs out of any other game out there. They ask for your suggestions. All the other game’s forums don’t have as much complaining because the devs don’t exist on the forums so the community is just posting on those forums to communicate with the other players and not the devs. Just saying.

Cush.4063:

Suddenflame.2601:

TooBz.3065:

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

Just because some games have even worse designers doesn’t make the rng and grind in gw2 acceptable…. It just means it’s not the worst contender. Also GW2 is aimed for a us/eu audience, the audiences who least enjoy long terrible grinds.

Name one MMORPG that has better RNG and grind?

Why should we have to? I don’t see anyone saying that the RNG and grind is comparatively bad, just that it’s objectively bad.

The fact that everyone else is worse is irrelevant, unless you care to explain how it’s not?

I think a better argument is that the amount of grind and RNG is no worse than the minimum required to keep people in the game.

By saying something is bad you have to have something to subjectively compare it to. Comparison in this case is not objective but subjective.

If everyone else is worse than this game is the best and if every other game is worse than why do people play them and not complain as much in the forms. There is a reason for this comparison that you failed to comprehend.

A subjective comparison can lead to an objective solution to the problem. Such as by bringing out why a game has better RNG and grind can determine what you subjectively want to see in a game.

The reason these forums are so much more active with complaints is because the devs in this game are the most communitive devs out of any other game out there. They ask for your suggestions. All the other game’s forums don’t have as much complaining because the devs don’t exist on the forums so the community is just posting on those forums to communicate with the other players and not the devs. Just saying.

Not always the case. Taking the look at all the games I own with their own Steam Forums and there is less complaints. League of Legends forums are mostly just filled with Trolls but hardly any complaints. I would say league of legends devs are more active than GW2 dev team.

laokoko.7403:

Suddenflame.2601:

laokoko.7403:

Suddenflame.2601:

laokoko.7403:

To me it’s really the context.

If you look around, everyone is doing the same thing everyday.

Why do you have 10 characters?

5 races
2 genders per race
so 10 characters

Would have stopped at 8 since there are only 8 classes but wanted to have a full set.
None of my characters are mules.

Exactly. I have 8 level80 with full map completion and personal story done. And a total of 13 level80.

If this game actually have an endgame to play, people won’t have that many level80. Since this game have no endgame, people end up doing AC or COF or fractal everyday which is the same thing they did 1 year ago.

The guy above your post said it “And add in the fact that raids and battlegrounds offer an actual, FUN gearing process and compare it to the tedious crafting grind here. Guess who wins?”

This game is in fact very casual. But when you try to play it hardcore you wind up doing the same thing everyday. “same daily, same dungeon, same farming”.

Agree on your last point.

GW2 endgame however from what i seen is do what you want type of end game where the ultimate goal is to have fun which is different from previous MMORPGs. This is causing many of the issues since most people are coming from games where the goal is set in place long before they even started playing. Creating their own goals rather than goals placed for them.

I don’t even know what goals you are talking about. There are nothing to do.

There are no content casual players can’t do. If I already can do every content as a casual players, why would I want to play hardcore.

Hardcore guys go for server firsts and speed clears.

Cush.4063:

The reason these forums are so much more active with complaints is because the devs in this game are the most communitive devs out of any other game out there. They ask for your suggestions. All the other game’s forums don’t have as much complaining because the devs don’t exist on the forums so the community is just posting on those forums to communicate with the other players and not the devs. Just saying.

Um. The devs are nearly non-existent here sans the new CDI initiative (Which I am thankful for, thank you Anet!). Rift devs were way more active as that was my last major MMO purchase, and they would ask players what they wanted and it would make it in the game in a few weeks or a month, not 1.5 years later and still nothing like GW2.

Suddenflame.2601:

Other games have loot as well such as Diablo and Diablo 2 which are not MMORPGs, but also have an economy and ability to play with other players. They are not as different as you want to believe they are. MMORPGs are highly similar to MRPGs which are closely related and 90% of those are mostly (SP)RPG. Loot and grindiness is the discussion of this forum (along with other random things apparently). RNG has little to do with other players as Diablo has RNG, Skyrim has RNG, etc.

Economy however is a main issue here as it is made up of Grindiness and RNG aspects. People are wanting less RNG and less Grindiness which by the way are the only two factors keeping the game’s economy from hyper inflation and devaluing of items. Basically by performing both the prices of items would fall (certain items), but the cost of other items (permanent bank access) would rise.

Grindness in this case of the game is only created due to RNG being as it is. People grind to get specific items which than they sell or use. If people kept getting said item repeatedly or were guaranteed said item the value of that item would plummet harder than a boulder in a bottomless ocean.

Exactly. You just have to ask yourself what the defining parameter is for any genre. Many games have many things in common and are still different. Plus the added twist here and there to set yourself apart.

I’m basically with you that there are worse games out there (for grind mainly) and since early on playing this game found the dilemma between “play the way you like” and the resulting change in loot structure.

It is a bit ironic that from a gameplay perspective I welcome other players (joining in on events etc) but from the economical aspect other players are worse here (from how it’s designed) than in any other game I’ve encountered so far.

Just as an example, WoW, about 6 years ago for me, I’ve always had enough gold basically to buy the majority of things available – especially from NPC’s.
The combination of “making gold” though questing and then “rewarding” yourself with a trinket, armour or mount was more satisfying from my perspective than dumping the materials I have onto the trading post to make some gold.

Of course someone else’s mileage varies, in my case the “play the way you want” (or can often) does not include many dungeons and fractals.

But I don’t have an answer. Hey, the loot for Teq and more was just “increased”, or the chance for ascended items I should say – thank you Zommoros, I knew you would read this, appreciate the speedy reply

Kaiyanwan.8521:

For a game that was advertised not to be grindy, we have a kitten hell lot of it. Everywhere. In all aspects of the game.

Who gives a kitten’s kitten about other games that are grindier but were never advertised being not grindy?

Agreed… this game is every bit as grindy as other MMOs. They just try to sugarcoat it. I don’t care for the way Legendaries are obtained. I’d much rather just see them as a super rare drop that is account bound.

Rouven.7409:

Suddenflame.2601:

Other games have loot as well such as Diablo and Diablo 2 which are not MMORPGs, but also have an economy and ability to play with other players. They are not as different as you want to believe they are. MMORPGs are highly similar to MRPGs which are closely related and 90% of those are mostly (SP)RPG. Loot and grindiness is the discussion of this forum (along with other random things apparently). RNG has little to do with other players as Diablo has RNG, Skyrim has RNG, etc.

Economy however is a main issue here as it is made up of Grindiness and RNG aspects. People are wanting less RNG and less Grindiness which by the way are the only two factors keeping the game’s economy from hyper inflation and devaluing of items. Basically by performing both the prices of items would fall (certain items), but the cost of other items (permanent bank access) would rise.

Grindness in this case of the game is only created due to RNG being as it is. People grind to get specific items which than they sell or use. If people kept getting said item repeatedly or were guaranteed said item the value of that item would plummet harder than a boulder in a bottomless ocean.

Exactly. You just have to ask yourself what the defining parameter is for any genre. Many games have many things in common and are still different. Plus the added twist here and there to set yourself apart.

I’m basically with you that there are worse games out there (for grind mainly) and since early on playing this game found the dilemma between “play the way you like” and the resulting change in loot structure.

It is a bit ironic that from a gameplay perspective I welcome other players (joining in on events etc) but from the economical aspect other players are worse here (from how it’s designed) than in any other game I’ve encountered so far.

Just as an example, WoW, about 6 years ago for me, I’ve always had enough gold basically to buy the majority of things available – especially from NPC’s.
The combination of “making gold” though questing and then “rewarding” yourself with a trinket, armour or mount was more satisfying from my perspective than dumping the materials I have onto the trading post to make some gold.

Of course someone else’s mileage varies, in my case the “play the way you want” (or can often) does not include many dungeons and fractals.

But I don’t have an answer. Hey, the loot for Teq and more was just “increased”, or the chance for ascended items I should say – thank you Zommoros, I knew you would read this, appreciate the speedy reply

I get what your saying and I think I know somewhat of the cause that is different between GW2 loot system and other games is based on the fact that GW2 uses a multi-tagged loot system rather than a single-tag or on-kill loot system meaning there is hundreds more items appear each second in comparison to other games where only 1 or more items appear per person per kill. This leads to a different approach needed to be taken when coming to how the economy handles it.

laokoko.7403:

Suddenflame.2601:

laokoko.7403:

Suddenflame.2601:

laokoko.7403:

To me it’s really the context.

If you look around, everyone is doing the same thing everyday.

Why do you have 10 characters?

5 races
2 genders per race
so 10 characters

Would have stopped at 8 since there are only 8 classes but wanted to have a full set.
None of my characters are mules.

Exactly. I have 8 level80 with full map completion and personal story done. And a total of 13 level80.

If this game actually have an endgame to play, people won’t have that many level80. Since this game have no endgame, people end up doing AC or COF or fractal everyday which is the same thing they did 1 year ago.

The guy above your post said it “And add in the fact that raids and battlegrounds offer an actual, FUN gearing process and compare it to the tedious crafting grind here. Guess who wins?”

This game is in fact very casual. But when you try to play it hardcore you wind up doing the same thing everyday. “same daily, same dungeon, same farming”.

Agree on your last point.

GW2 endgame however from what i seen is do what you want type of end game where the ultimate goal is to have fun which is different from previous MMORPGs. This is causing many of the issues since most people are coming from games where the goal is set in place long before they even started playing. Creating their own goals rather than goals placed for them.

I don’t even know what goals you are talking about. There are nothing to do.

There are no content casual players can’t do. If I already can do every content as a casual players, why would I want to play hardcore.

There is PLENTY to do that casuals can’t. High level fractals, sPvP, roaming WvW, Teq, the wurm, etc. That is all more geared towards the hardcore crowd that the casual crowd either can’t do or doesn’t have the time for it. I have no iidea how you think there is nothing to do. And I only listed a couple things geared towards the hardcore crowd. There’s also dungeons such as Arah and others without speed running, world completion, other world bosses, lower leveled fractals, achievements, WvW zerging, guild missions, jumping puzzles, living story, the new EotM map, and the list goes on. Hell you could even learn how to flip the TP, some people enjoy that stuff and I’ve started to learn myself, not to mention that Anet updates the game with new content and bosses pretty regularly. I understand there are some of these things that you might not particularly like but there’s plenty to choose from and I’m sure you’ll like several.

ronpierce.2760:

If you can play an MMO with absolutely 0 rewards, what is most peoples’ “fun factor”, that’s fine, but in that case you’d enjoy just about any game well designed or not… You’re a rarity, and frankly a lazy game designers delight.. x.X

Oh yeah, because it’s not totally lazy to make a game that’s just like a food dispenser that trickles down rewards instead of making a game that is engaging on it’s own and doesn’t need you to bribe you with illusory gains of money/shinies.

See, it’s way harder to design a really good game with really engaging gameplay than set up loot tables for you to roll on.

Harbard.5738:

ronpierce.2760:

If you can play an MMO with absolutely 0 rewards, what is most peoples’ “fun factor”, that’s fine, but in that case you’d enjoy just about any game well designed or not… You’re a rarity, and frankly a lazy game designers delight.. x.X

Oh yeah, because it’s not totally lazy to make a game that’s just like a food dispenser that trickles down rewards instead of making a game that is engaging on it’s own and doesn’t need you to bribe you with illusory gains of money/shinies.

See, it’s way harder to design a really good game with really engaging gameplay than set up loot tables for you to roll on.

I forgot how engaging buying grinding gold to buy all the mats you need to do everything with was. My bad. I didn’t say other games had it perfect. But they’re certainly a hell of a lot better than this.

Harbard.5738:

ronpierce.2760:

If you can play an MMO with absolutely 0 rewards, what is most peoples’ “fun factor”, that’s fine, but in that case you’d enjoy just about any game well designed or not… You’re a rarity, and frankly a lazy game designers delight.. x.X

Oh yeah, because it’s not totally lazy to make a game that’s just like a food dispenser that trickles down rewards instead of making a game that is engaging on it’s own and doesn’t need you to bribe you with illusory gains of money/shinies.

See, it’s way harder to design a really good game with really engaging gameplay than set up loot tables for you to roll on.

I agree. Challenging content over easy loot dispenser

Suddenflame.2601:

Harbard.5738:

ronpierce.2760:

If you can play an MMO with absolutely 0 rewards, what is most peoples’ “fun factor”, that’s fine, but in that case you’d enjoy just about any game well designed or not… You’re a rarity, and frankly a lazy game designers delight.. x.X

Oh yeah, because it’s not totally lazy to make a game that’s just like a food dispenser that trickles down rewards instead of making a game that is engaging on it’s own and doesn’t need you to bribe you with illusory gains of money/shinies.

See, it’s way harder to design a really good game with really engaging gameplay than set up loot tables for you to roll on.

I agree. Challenging content over easy loot dispenser

Ugh you’re so dense lol. What is CHALLENGING about hours of farming gold? All the other nonbuyable stuff isn’t hard to get it’s just grindy. The only CHALLENGE is being able to bare how boring the grind is to ever make it through it. That IS a challenge. Hats off the the challenge team. >_>

ronpierce.2760:

Suddenflame.2601:

Harbard.5738:

ronpierce.2760:

If you can play an MMO with absolutely 0 rewards, what is most peoples’ “fun factor”, that’s fine, but in that case you’d enjoy just about any game well designed or not… You’re a rarity, and frankly a lazy game designers delight.. x.X

Oh yeah, because it’s not totally lazy to make a game that’s just like a food dispenser that trickles down rewards instead of making a game that is engaging on it’s own and doesn’t need you to bribe you with illusory gains of money/shinies.

See, it’s way harder to design a really good game with really engaging gameplay than set up loot tables for you to roll on.

I agree. Challenging content over easy loot dispenser

Ugh you’re so dense lol. What is CHALLENGING about hours of farming gold? All the other nonbuyable stuff isn’t hard to get it’s just grindy. The only CHALLENGE is being able to bare how boring the grind is to ever make it through it. That IS a challenge. Hats off the the challenge team. >_>

I didn’t say GW2 is challenging (in one of my posts above I even stated that it is lacking in this department but is working on it with such things as Teq). Also, I don’t farm gold

ronpierce.2760:

Suddenflame.2601:

Harbard.5738:

ronpierce.2760:

If you can play an MMO with absolutely 0 rewards, what is most peoples’ “fun factor”, that’s fine, but in that case you’d enjoy just about any game well designed or not… You’re a rarity, and frankly a lazy game designers delight.. x.X

Oh yeah, because it’s not totally lazy to make a game that’s just like a food dispenser that trickles down rewards instead of making a game that is engaging on it’s own and doesn’t need you to bribe you with illusory gains of money/shinies.

See, it’s way harder to design a really good game with really engaging gameplay than set up loot tables for you to roll on.

I agree. Challenging content over easy loot dispenser

Ugh you’re so dense lol. What is CHALLENGING about hours of farming gold? All the other nonbuyable stuff isn’t hard to get it’s just grindy. The only CHALLENGE is being able to bare how boring the grind is to ever make it through it. That IS a challenge. Hats off the the challenge team. >_>

I failed the challenge lol. When I thought about grinding out all of that ascended for WvW I uninstalled in disgust.

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

Suddenflame.2601:

Harbard.5738:

ronpierce.2760:

If you can play an MMO with absolutely 0 rewards, what is most peoples’ “fun factor”, that’s fine, but in that case you’d enjoy just about any game well designed or not… You’re a rarity, and frankly a lazy game designers delight.. x.X

Oh yeah, because it’s not totally lazy to make a game that’s just like a food dispenser that trickles down rewards instead of making a game that is engaging on it’s own and doesn’t need you to bribe you with illusory gains of money/shinies.

See, it’s way harder to design a really good game with really engaging gameplay than set up loot tables for you to roll on.

I agree. Challenging content over easy loot dispenser

Ugh you’re so dense lol. What is CHALLENGING about hours of farming gold? All the other nonbuyable stuff isn’t hard to get it’s just grindy. The only CHALLENGE is being able to bare how boring the grind is to ever make it through it. That IS a challenge. Hats off the the challenge team. >_>

I didn’t say GW2 is challenging (in one of my posts above I even stated that it is lacking in this department but is working on it with such things as Teq). Also, I don’t farm gold

I’m not talking about you. I’m talking about the people who actually care about getting best in slot armor and and loot in general. Not the 0.0001% of all mmo players who could be given nothing for their time ever and still find it enjoyable 2000+ hours later.

Regarding long term goals: No, thanks. I save (or have saved) up money for numerous RL expenses. I don’t see the benefit to saving up for a precursor. I do play this game for fun.

ronpierce.2760:

Harbard.5738:

ronpierce.2760:

If you can play an MMO with absolutely 0 rewards, what is most peoples’ “fun factor”, that’s fine, but in that case you’d enjoy just about any game well designed or not… You’re a rarity, and frankly a lazy game designers delight.. x.X

Oh yeah, because it’s not totally lazy to make a game that’s just like a food dispenser that trickles down rewards instead of making a game that is engaging on it’s own and doesn’t need you to bribe you with illusory gains of money/shinies.

See, it’s way harder to design a really good game with really engaging gameplay than set up loot tables for you to roll on.

I forgot how engaging buying grinding gold to buy all the mats you need to do everything with was. My bad. I didn’t say other games had it perfect. But they’re certainly a hell of a lot better than this.

I’m not saying GW2 is super engaging. I’m saying YOU are the lazy dev’s dream. And the fact I had to spell it out to you again pretty much explains why.

Harbard.5738:

ronpierce.2760:

Harbard.5738:

ronpierce.2760:

If you can play an MMO with absolutely 0 rewards, what is most peoples’ “fun factor”, that’s fine, but in that case you’d enjoy just about any game well designed or not… You’re a rarity, and frankly a lazy game designers delight.. x.X

Oh yeah, because it’s not totally lazy to make a game that’s just like a food dispenser that trickles down rewards instead of making a game that is engaging on it’s own and doesn’t need you to bribe you with illusory gains of money/shinies.

See, it’s way harder to design a really good game with really engaging gameplay than set up loot tables for you to roll on.

I forgot how engaging buying grinding gold to buy all the mats you need to do everything with was. My bad. I didn’t say other games had it perfect. But they’re certainly a hell of a lot better than this.

I’m not saying GW2 is super engaging. I’m saying YOU are the lazy dev’s dream. And the fact I had to spell it out to you again pretty much explains why.

Um… What? So you’re saying dealing with loot tables and having some sort of depth to armor and where it comes from is MORE lazy than: Everything is crafted but takes 250 (max stack) of items AND You can get the rare precursors from anywhere in the game! Oh, but t6 mats are like 1 in 100 loot bags (not even specific materials just any t6) and a precursor is some ridiculously low number.

This solution isn’t less lazy. It’s definitely more lazy. The grind is so kittening long because it means they don’t have to keep ANDING MORE CONTENT. So don’t try to call me out like you’re some genius. You’re fooled by the geniuses who stopped putting the carrot on a stick and put it in a fishing pole so they could cast it out further….

Suddenflame.2601:

Afya.5842:

RNG is bad in GW2 because precursor drop everywhere. I wouldn’t mind people getting BDS the first time in SOO because they at least took the effort to go in the dungeon. But thing is not the same in GW2, it is possible to get precursor @100AP, in queensdale. It makes me jelly. And fotm RNG is now worse because it feels the same chance of getting skin/box from 1x to 4×.

Precursor dropping everywhere with different chances of dropping is so that every type of player has a chance to get a precursor. By limiting it and removing it from a subsection of players is something that Anet does not want to do. So if you can come up with a system that would allow all types of players be able to get a precursor I bet Anet would be thankful.

The reason why FOTM is designed that way is because 1x is where skilled play begins and rewards for doing it where as 1-9 are just practice. Anything above 1x is about the challenge rather than the reward. They added exclusive items for higher fractals, but drop chance is low for them but they still about the challenge in comparison to the reward. Its designed more so for people with my mentality of Fun does not need loot.

I won’t disagree that open world players should have a chance of getting precursor. However I think the drop rate should scale more with difficulty. Farming in orr/frostgorge should have a much much higher chance than in 1-15 zones. Make it so if you want precursor, farm in 80 zones. Currently the chance is so small everywhere you can say it’s lim→0 in queensdale and lim→0 in orr.

I disagree with your statement or their direction on fotm. Harder contents need better loot to justify the extra work.

Afya.5842:

Suddenflame.2601:

Afya.5842:

RNG is bad in GW2 because precursor drop everywhere. I wouldn’t mind people getting BDS the first time in SOO because they at least took the effort to go in the dungeon. But thing is not the same in GW2, it is possible to get precursor @100AP, in queensdale. It makes me jelly. And fotm RNG is now worse because it feels the same chance of getting skin/box from 1x to 4×.

Precursor dropping everywhere with different chances of dropping is so that every type of player has a chance to get a precursor. By limiting it and removing it from a subsection of players is something that Anet does not want to do. So if you can come up with a system that would allow all types of players be able to get a precursor I bet Anet would be thankful.

The reason why FOTM is designed that way is because 1x is where skilled play begins and rewards for doing it where as 1-9 are just practice. Anything above 1x is about the challenge rather than the reward. They added exclusive items for higher fractals, but drop chance is low for them but they still about the challenge in comparison to the reward. Its designed more so for people with my mentality of Fun does not need loot.

I won’t disagree that open world players should have a chance of getting precursor. However I think the drop rate should scale more with difficulty. Farming in orr/frostgorge should have a much much higher chance than in 1-15 zones. Make it so if you want precursor, farm in 80 zones. Currently the chance is so small everywhere you can say it’s lim->0 in queensdale and lim->0 in orr.

I disagree with your statement or their direction on fotm. Harder contents need better loot to justify the extra work.

That statement was not about what I want but what it is currently. I would agree with you on the fat that harder content should present greater and better rewards for those who desire such but must be related to how hard the content really is.

ronpierce.2760:

Harbard.5738:

ronpierce.2760:

Harbard.5738:

ronpierce.2760:

If you can play an MMO with absolutely 0 rewards, what is most peoples’ “fun factor”, that’s fine, but in that case you’d enjoy just about any game well designed or not… You’re a rarity, and frankly a lazy game designers delight.. x.X

Oh yeah, because it’s not totally lazy to make a game that’s just like a food dispenser that trickles down rewards instead of making a game that is engaging on it’s own and doesn’t need you to bribe you with illusory gains of money/shinies.

See, it’s way harder to design a really good game with really engaging gameplay than set up loot tables for you to roll on.

I forgot how engaging buying grinding gold to buy all the mats you need to do everything with was. My bad. I didn’t say other games had it perfect. But they’re certainly a hell of a lot better than this.

I’m not saying GW2 is super engaging. I’m saying YOU are the lazy dev’s dream. And the fact I had to spell it out to you again pretty much explains why.

Um… What? So you’re saying dealing with loot tables and having some sort of depth to armor and where it comes from is MORE lazy than: Everything is crafted but takes 250 (max stack) of items AND You can get the rare precursors from anywhere in the game! Oh, but t6 mats are like 1 in 100 loot bags (not even specific materials just any t6) and a precursor is some ridiculously low number.

This solution isn’t less lazy. It’s definitely more lazy. The grind is so kittening long because it means they don’t have to keep ANDING MORE CONTENT. So don’t try to call me out like you’re some genius. You’re fooled by the geniuses who stopped putting the carrot on a stick and put it in a fishing pole so they could cast it out further….

Good god… facepalm. If you need further clarification, feel free to PM me! xD

You’re an idiot. You haven’t said 1 thing to prove how they ARENT lazy. You just keep laughing like you have a clue.

I still reserve the right to qq. No one can take that away from me.

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

Just because some games have even worse designers doesn’t make the rng and grind in gw2 acceptable…. It just means it’s not the worst contender. Also GW2 is aimed for a us/eu audience, the audiences who least enjoy long terrible grinds.

Name one MMORPG that has better RNG and grind?

That isn’t hard. Guild Wars 1.

Sirendor.1394:

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

Just because some games have even worse designers doesn’t make the rng and grind in gw2 acceptable…. It just means it’s not the worst contender. Also GW2 is aimed for a us/eu audience, the audiences who least enjoy long terrible grinds.

Name one MMORPG that has better RNG and grind?

That isn’t hard. Guild Wars 1.

Explain why to you that it has better RNG and grind.

Suddenflame.2601:

Sirendor.1394:

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

Just because some games have even worse designers doesn’t make the rng and grind in gw2 acceptable…. It just means it’s not the worst contender. Also GW2 is aimed for a us/eu audience, the audiences who least enjoy long terrible grinds.

Name one MMORPG that has better RNG and grind?

That isn’t hard. Guild Wars 1.

Explain why to you that it has better RNG and grind.

No, don’t explain it, because you will take all this time to explain it and they’ll use a 1 sentence come back to discredit you with 0 back-up or just tell you its an opinion. We’ve been over this already and they’ll just kitten you off. Save yourself the time.

Suddenflame.2601:

Rouven.7409:

Suddenflame.2601:

They share many design concepts actually lol. As RPGs share many commonalities design concepts are built around those. MMORPGs are not too different as they have to be designed the same. An MMORPG is only slightly different from a single player RPG.

I can take GW2, FW, PW, WoW, and other MMORPGs. Remove the network capabilities, add NPC henchmen, and adjust the events to make them easier to accompany the henchmen it would become a single player RPG. Main differences between an RPG and an MMORPG are, there is an active persistent economy and other people which content is designed around. Hence content not concept.

Ah, exactly. So since there are the two main differences playing into this, namely the economy and other players – both tied into loot/rng – stick to comparing that.

Because that’s what your thread is about.

Let’s not get into the details of why they are different and why other genres can tell other stories, allow for a more diverse character development/customization etc etc.

Other games have loot as well such as Diablo and Diablo 2 which are not MMORPGs, but also have an economy and ability to play with other players. They are not as different as you want to believe they are. MMORPGs are highly similar to MRPGs which are closely related and 90% of those are mostly (SP)RPG. Loot and grindiness is the discussion of this forum (along with other random things apparently). RNG has little to do with other players as Diablo has RNG, Skyrim has RNG, etc.

Economy however is a main issue here as it is made up of Grindiness and RNG aspects. People are wanting less RNG and less Grindiness which by the way are the only two factors keeping the game’s economy from hyper inflation and devaluing of items. Basically by performing both the prices of items would fall (certain items), but the cost of other items (permanent bank access) would rise.

Grindness in this case of the game is only created due to RNG being as it is. People grind to get specific items which than they sell or use. If people kept getting said item repeatedly or were guaranteed said item the value of that item would plummet harder than a boulder in a bottomless ocean.

Awesome, I want legendary drop rate as Diablo 3 has.