Guild Wars 2

TooBz.3065:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

I’m in a hardcore speed run dungeon guild. We need ascended weapons as badly as WvWers need them.

Why do I have to do open world boss content to get the dragonite for them? It is not at all fair that I should have to go outside my chosen game mode to get gear to play my game mode.

See how dumb this sounds?

Except you want ascended weapons because they make your DPS higher and increase the speed with which you can complete the dungeon. So you for, ANet said “hey, do this kitten and we’ll improve your gameplay”

A subset of WvW’ers do not want ascended weapons because they unbalance the game mode and discourage new players from getting involved in WvW. So it’s like ANet said “hey, we’ve decided to kitten your gameplay, do this stuff to fix it.”

Question, why wouldn’t we scale every one up instead of scaling people who put in effort down?

Why do people insist on taking people down instead of raising them up?

Then we need ascended for what lol?We dont use them in normal PVP,game atm has no end game PVE….so if they remove ascended from WvW then they should remove ascended from game as well cause no1 gonna bother to make them.you dont really need ascended gear to do train lol…

Mackdose.6504:

But I’m not talking about server balance, and that’s not what the thread is about.

Right, but I am, because I’m using it as an example of how just because WvW is intended to be imbalanced doesn’t mean it’s a good thing that players have to like.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

See how dumb this sounds?

No?

Why shouldn’t you be able to acquire BiS by running dungeons/doing your preferred content?

TainoFuerte.8136:

Mackdose.6504:

But I’m not talking about server balance, and that’s not what the thread is about.

Right, but I am, because I’m using it as an example of how just because WvW is intended to be imbalanced doesn’t mean it’s a good thing that players have to like.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

See how dumb this sounds?

No?

Why shouldn’t you be able to acquire BiS by running dungeons/doing your preferred content?

One man’s preferred content is another man’s grindfest QQ thread.

Tongku.5326:

Bastien.1645:

I believe Ascended gear should be removed from PvP. It creates the typical “Grind to Win” scenario that is so common in other MMO/Games.

I feel that Arena Net created an amazing PvP game with Guild Wars 1 and they should stick to how things were run. I also predict a very certain power creep for Melee classes like Warriors/Thiefs who benefit so much from weapon power as opposed to classes like Mesmers/Necromancers, this will create a distinct imbalance between these classes that will be compensated by 1) Nerfing the Warrior/Thief/Guardian/Ranger and effectively screwing players who don’t have Ascended armor on these characters; OR 2) Not nerfing them and creating a huge gap in power between “Physical DPS” classes and “Magic” users.

WvWvW players like to PvP, but any PvP’er will do everything in their power to achieve an advantage over the enemy, the important thing for most PvP players is winning (yes they have fun too but winning is the most important), pretty soon we will have fully ascended players in WvWvW which will make it unplayable for people who don’t have hundreds of hours to dedicate to a single character in order to equip them with full ascended armor, I believe the weapons cost 200g each, the trinkets/accessories using Laurels would take almost a year to get and the back piece is not even available, and that’s assuming you do your daily every single day. Fractals should not be required to play PvP competitively.

WvWvW players already have to spend ~50+g on Runes + exotics to remain competitive, I believe that’s enough as you should naturally accumulate that gold levelling your character and doing a few dungeons along the way, a lot of people will say ascended armour makes no difference but if we assume both zergs are of equal skill, the zerg that is fully ascended will always beat the non ascended zerg that has 5-10% less stats, it’s the same thing as putting a level 80 zerg vs a upleveled zerg, which zerg do you think will win? And don’t get me started on roaming/sniping groups fully ascended vs non ascended people, in the law of averages, we have to assume everyone is at the same skill level so the person who is better geared will win. Could a pro player beat a fully ascended “newb”? Of course, but pro players a very rare and they don’t make up the average WvWvW in our realm. Heck, my realm is full of PvE players (Desolation) so if anything Ascended gear is awesome as the sheer power of these people will carry me but I still believe these items should not be implemented in this game mode.

Solution: It’s simple, just scale Ascended gear to Exotic stat level upon entering a Borderland. I believe fair play should be encouraged and “grind to win/pay to win” (crafting) should not be encourage or allowed in PvP, this is not World of Warcraft and I believe the fair play/balanced gear model from Guild Wars 1 was perfect and it should be encouraged not scrapped. If I wanted to go “3 Shot noobs with overpowered gear” I’d go back to WoW and grind RBGs to 2200.

Regards,
Bastien

Wall of text and no. Its fine as it is.

It is a little bit grindy getting a skill to 500, but its very easy, focused on gathering (mining, chopping) rather then other types of grinding.

I play wvw a lot, much more so then pve. I would say 75% of my income is wvw, remaining 25% all else. Currently my Artifice, Weaponsmith, and Huntsman are all at 500. So far I have crafted 7 ascended weapons. My main has 4 (includinf underwater) and my alts 1 each. At the current rate I will have minimum 1 ascended weapon per alt (6 alts) and a full set on my main in about 3 weeks or so.

I have a job, a life etc. and do not spend 16 out of 24 hours in the game. Vast majority of people I play with are likewise.

Based on my own experience, let me ask you a question.

Why should we be punished by Y O U R lack of ability or willingness and have our ascended weapons removed ? You do not represent majority of playerbase, in fact you represent a very vocal but incapable minority.

Getting ascended weapons is a leisurely PvE activity. You do have to plan it a little bit though. Basically move your mouse cursor over stuff in the game, read descriptions, come to conclusions and follow a plan you set for yourself. Gathering the mats takes me roughly 15 minutes a day, sometimes I go 30-45 minutes if I skip a few days and kill a world boss or 2.

This stuff is so incredibly easy and just happens by itself over time that I cant understand how can anyone be stupid enough not to get it.

YOUR complaint has no merit, and you falsely assume that you represent everyone, you do not.

This is comedy gold.

Bastien.1645:

I believe Ascended gear should be removed from PvP. It creates the typical “Grind to Win” scenario that is so common in other MMO/Games.

I feel that Arena Net created an amazing PvP game with Guild Wars 1 and they should stick to how things were run. I also predict a very certain power creep for Melee classes like Warriors/Thiefs who benefit so much from weapon power as opposed to classes like Mesmers/Necromancers, this will create a distinct imbalance between these classes that will be compensated by 1) Nerfing the Warrior/Thief/Guardian/Ranger and effectively screwing players who don’t have Ascended armor on these characters; OR 2) Not nerfing them and creating a huge gap in power between “Physical DPS” classes and “Magic” users.

WvWvW players like to PvP, but any PvP’er will do everything in their power to achieve an advantage over the enemy, the important thing for most PvP players is winning (yes they have fun too but winning is the most important), pretty soon we will have fully ascended players in WvWvW which will make it unplayable for people who don’t have hundreds of hours to dedicate to a single character in order to equip them with full ascended armor, I believe the weapons cost 200g each, the trinkets/accessories using Laurels would take almost a year to get and the back piece is not even available, and that’s assuming you do your daily every single day. Fractals should not be required to play PvP competitively.

WvWvW players already have to spend ~50+g on Runes + exotics to remain competitive, I believe that’s enough as you should naturally accumulate that gold levelling your character and doing a few dungeons along the way, a lot of people will say ascended armour makes no difference but if we assume both zergs are of equal skill, the zerg that is fully ascended will always beat the non ascended zerg that has 5-10% less stats, it’s the same thing as putting a level 80 zerg vs a upleveled zerg, which zerg do you think will win? And don’t get me started on roaming/sniping groups fully ascended vs non ascended people, in the law of averages, we have to assume everyone is at the same skill level so the person who is better geared will win. Could a pro player beat a fully ascended “newb”? Of course, but pro players a very rare and they don’t make up the average WvWvW in our realm. Heck, my realm is full of PvE players (Desolation) so if anything Ascended gear is awesome as the sheer power of these people will carry me but I still believe these items should not be implemented in this game mode.

Solution: It’s simple, just scale Ascended gear to Exotic stat level upon entering a Borderland. I believe fair play should be encouraged and “grind to win/pay to win” (crafting) should not be encourage or allowed in PvP, this is not World of Warcraft and I believe the fair play/balanced gear model from Guild Wars 1 was perfect and it should be encouraged not scrapped. If I wanted to go “3 Shot noobs with overpowered gear” I’d go back to WoW and grind RBGs to 2200.

Regards,
Bastien

The problem here is you have a different concept of what WvW is. Its actually supposed to be the place you can progress and invest in your charachter AND pvp. MANY people actually want someplace they can take the gear and things they have earned on their charachter into a PVP/PVE setting. One of the big reasons people who GvG had for doing it in WvW, was they wanted to take their charachters, that they built and fight them, not the premade/limited stat options in spvp that they have no investment in.

Second of all, WvW was never fair, and its still not fair.
If you have more players, you will be more effective
If you have higher skilled players you will be more effective
If you have people who can get people on the other servers to do what you want you will be more effective
If you spend more money you will be more effective
If you have played it longer you will have higher ranks.

I understand some people feel that ascended is too hard to get, but its totally fits with the idea behind WvW. WvW isnt a fair battlefield, its a war, where players get to bring almost everything they have earned or learned to the field for an advantage, whether that be the fact that they leveled cooking to 400, and have a different food ready for every playstyle, or the ascended they built over a long time frame, or the guild which always plays, and means they are never without at least 10 people working together.

tldr, wvw is actually about playing against an unfair world with every advantage you have built through play, whether it be gold, skills, gear, or people.

Suddenflame.2601:

Ascended weapons do not cost 200g to make. It takes about 200g to go from 400 to 500 crafting thou. But once you reach 500 crafting you can make a large number of ascended weapons without worry. I got 3 ascended weapons already and can easily make more if I so choose. Ascended are not hard to get at all. Hell sometimes they are easier to get than exotic (amulets for instance).

Crafting ascended weapons is the only reason to go from 400 to 500 therefore it is a fundamental part of the cost of ascended.

Mackdose.6504:

The numbers aren’t important with the gap is small, it’s the execution by the players that will determine the outcome.

>10% is not a small gap, its significant and will get more significant with asc armor. Will it matter in all situations? Of course not but in cases of equal skill it matters, if a zerg mainly has asc and another doesn’t and both have good commanders it will make a difference.

if they should get rid of ascended gear from wvw, then they should do the same thing in wvw as s/tpvp when someone maps in, all gear changes to wvw gear no exceptions. No food of anykind either. Since food is something which can be crafted. No buffs of anykind except wvw booster. This is of course, only if true balance is sought.

morrolan.9608:

Suddenflame.2601:

Ascended weapons do not cost 200g to make. It takes about 200g to go from 400 to 500 crafting thou. But once you reach 500 crafting you can make a large number of ascended weapons without worry. I got 3 ascended weapons already and can easily make more if I so choose. Ascended are not hard to get at all. Hell sometimes they are easier to get than exotic (amulets for instance).

Crafting ascended weapons is the only reason to go from 400 to 500 therefore it is a fundamental part of the cost of ascended.

Mackdose.6504:

The numbers aren’t important with the gap is small, it’s the execution by the players that will determine the outcome.

>10% is not a small gap, its significant and will get more significant with asc armor. Will it matter in all situations? Of course not but in cases of equal skill it matters, if a zerg mainly has asc and another doesn’t and both have good commanders it will make a difference.

Doesn’t matter if it is fundamental or not the costs as separate. Such as I could say it cost me 200g to make 1 ascended weapon. Someone else could say it cost them 210g to make 5 ascended weapons. Which one is more costly? The 5 weapons but if take it away the 200g cost to lvl to 500 the first weapon cost nothing and the 5 weapons cost only 2g each. Hell over time someone could have 50 ascended weapons.

Separate the costs cause clumping them together is deceptive, and that’s how people misrepresent information.

TainoFuerte.8136:

So, what you mean to say is that you’ve got nothing. Ok.

No there’s been strong Chewbacca Defense over tones with him all day long. I’m just going to chauk it up to he has no idea what he’s talking about and go with that because arguing sense with him hasn’t seemed to work.

There is no difference!!!!!! But it’s so small…… Errrrrr what? I liked his last one of but the numbers are small……. Going from 100 to 110 is a small number but it’s still 10% which is pretty huge against another player.

Mackdose.6504:

TainoFuerte.8136:

Mackdose.6504:

WvW is meant to be the open world PvPvE game. It is statistically imbalanced on a player level because it uses the gear from PvE. Why change what wasn’t a problem before? Why blow dev time on something they designed to be that way?

It became a problem to the players like the OP when they added Ascended gear to an already unbalanced system that unbalances it further.

That the developers designed it intentionally does not automatically mean it is good. Otherwise, it would mean developers could design terrible content (poop) intentionally and we’d have to think it’s fine that they gave us some poop. A poop by design is still a poop. Players will still expect, and rightfully so, that Anet try and encourage balanced server matchups even though WvW wasn’t intended to be balanced and can never be perfectly balanced. Improvements.

But I’m not talking about server balance, and that’s not what the thread is about.

This thread is about whether or not we should change WvW’s ruleset to scale earned armor down because people don’t want to put in the effort to earn it themselves.

Earn? Are you kittening kidding me? You don’t “earn” ascended gear in any meaningful sense. You do a bunch of simple chores for a few days and you get it. Stop acting like it’s something to be proud of.

The problem with the ascended gear is that you are forced to play content that you have no interest in to get it. It takes 5 days to make 1 ascended weapon. If you can only play 3 days a week for a 2 or 3 hour session then it would take 2 weeks to make that weapon and those playing sessions are reduced to doing the mandatory dungeon runs (cause that is the best source of Empyreals) and the meta bosses (best source for dragonite) cause that is the time it takes to gather all the mats for 1 crafting session. For a WvW fan it really sucks cause it takes time away from what they enjoy most. If you were to gather you materials solely in WvW it would take you over a month to gather all the mats at 2-3 hours 3 or 4 times a week. It’s not about being lazy or unwilling, it’s about how time gating account bound items hurt the people who can’t log in for a few hours every day. Even if you could play for 12 hours strait on saturdays it would take you 9 weeks to make 1 weapons. How can people not see a problem with this design? With ascended armor coming soon I can see why people are unhappy about it.

LOL /15characterslol

The simple fix is to normalize stats in WvW. However Anet has to date refused to even remark on this, allowing speculation they simply have no intent to do so.

To be honest, Ascended gear makes pretty much no difference in WvW. The game mode has so many forms of imbalance that adding a minuscule stat difference changes nuts all.

TainoFuerte.8136:

LOL /15characterslol

It makes no difference in large groups but in 1v1, 1v2, 2v2 it does.

Suddenflame.2601:

Doesn’t matter if it is fundamental or not the costs as separate. Such as I could say it cost me 200g to make 1 ascended weapon.

In purely cash terms if you only ever make 1 then yes it cost you 200g. Its not deceptive.

You can think of it like an investment if you want, but in cash terms it still costs you 200g.

Xae Isareth.1364:

To be honest, Ascended gear makes pretty much no difference in WvW. The game mode has so many forms of imbalance that adding a minuscule stat difference changes nuts all.

>10% is not minuscule, then add in asc armor and its greater. Depending on how you play it can make a difference.

Julie Yann.5379:

It makes no difference in large groups but in 1v1, 1v2, 2v2 it does.

I suppose to the typical unorganized zerg it might not matter. On the other hand, I fail to understand how the math breaks down at larger numbers. 50 dudes with gear that makes them 15% stronger means they are 15% stronger than the guys without it. You know, like a single guy with 15% stronger gear is 15% stronger than the guy without it. I dunno, maybe math breaks down. Maybe it’s like a portal to another dimension where different math applies.

just use your skills to overcome that X%!

akamon.2769:

just use your skills to overcome that X%!

But they’re using their skills, too, so that doesn’t solve the “one side is playing with a handicap” thing.

I figure the people who want ascended in WvW just want the advantage for themselves. There’s probably some overlap with people who use aimbots in shooters.

TainoFuerte.8136 & aliksyian.7642

Good stuff guys, a good laugh before going to bed, thank you very much :-).

- – -

People in this topic saying “Ascended doesn’t change anything… but lets not remove it from WvW” are all too well aware Ascended does provide them another advantage over the casual/new players. And they want to keep this (unfair) avantage.

This is the “I win because of my gear” mentality and I don’t find it interesting for a PvP environment. Now maybe you do, and maybe you need that gear to be even slightly competitive. But it doesn’t change the facts : the gap is bigger for the new/casual player, and the pro-teams stomp even more.

As for the grind-fest part, Julie Yann.5379 summed it up very well. The dedicated WvWers, the people who play well and for whom WvW is not just another farm, the people who scout, defend, sometimes getting very little rewards for hours on end playing defense, manning trebs, etc. Yes, for those people that only got a couple hours of play per day and want to have FUN for those couple hours, well Ascended is indeed a big grind. A big grind is not an achievement, IMO it is a just a huge waste of valuable time.

You love mining stone and cutting down trees? You love your crafting? Good for you, but I know lots of people who hate it. What if you don’t like WvW much, and the ONLY way in the game to get the top gear for this game would be… hmmm… to pay 10000 badges? There would be RIVERS of tears, it would be a cataclysm, I mean we’re talking Fukushima all over again.

The top gear in a PvP environment should be attainable through PvP, period. I don’t even understand how there can be arguing on this. Mining, chopping wood, crafting and any other (garbage, IMO, I am not judging you, but for me and many others, it is garbage) grind doesn’t qualify as ‘PvP’. It doesn’t even qualify as a “fun” activity for many people. In the end, a lumberjack should not be better geared than a warlord.

- – -

The WvW enthousiasts you read in this topic want a more balanced field to play in WvW, less useless grind and more time to play the game they love, as well as an Alt-Friendly / New-Player Friendlly environment.

The power-creep people you read in this topic want a less balanced field to play in, where they have a bigger advantage over new/casual players in WvW, looking for easier kills/victories, with a bigger gap between them and new/casual players, making them special snowflakes.

Now I just wanted to make it clear. You can’t be in both camps. I know where I stand.

TooBz.3065:

That was what I was going to do. Then ANet nerfed Karma (so many respects into Rabid gear / PVT and I don’t have much karma left), so they made the most important WvW stats difficult to get.

Also, I don’t like always being less powerful than the next guy. I’m fine with getting stomped when I mess up, or when I’m outplayed. I do mind when I almost win a fight, but get stomped by someone wielding ascended weapons. Cause I don’t know if I got outplayed or just out grinded (it’s that a word??? You know what I mean).

And frankly, unless you have BiS gear, you don’t really know what the build can do. Is it less effective because a) I stink (always a possibility) or b) because I’m operating at a 5-8% deficit against other players.

Edit: Oh, and I’m bad a pattern recognition, so my brain always thinks “this will be my main, better start gearing up to ascended.” however, 4 – “this will be my main’s” later, I’m ready to throw the computer out the window.

Those however are not your 2 only possibilities. You also have
c) we were outnumbered
d) the other team was better at supporting each other
e) the other team was better at crowd control
f) the other team used more consumables then us
g) my team was less optimal then the other team
h) they had more seige weapons then us
i) rng was against us
j) they had a better build
k) they used a more effective consumable combination
l) they had a better tactical position
m) they had better co-ordination
n) we had more lower level players then they did
o) I was picked as a target by multiple members of the opposing team
p) no one supported me from my team
q) I was in front of my team
I could go on but I guess its enough to prove the point that there is a reason why arenanet state WvW is inbalanced because there are so many factors that come into play that its impossible to balance and those same variables make it impossible to point to any single reason of why you died in a fight.

TainoFuerte.8136:

Yes, explain to me how in a game where virtually every interaction with your opponent is reliant on number calculations, extra numbers don’t matter.

Explain to me how you reached these conclusions. How do you know gear makes no difference in this situation but not these I’ve selected? Because I’m sure I’ve been in zerg battles where I’ve not gotten downed and become a rally bot by about 100 HP and that these battles are, coincidentally, the biggest most brutal ones that we really want to win for Stonemist or a Keep. Surely it makes no difference if an army of As men fights an army of newbies in rares or exotics right?

I’m genuinely interested in which statistical technique you used to determine the percentage of “non-trivial” yet, at the same time, at the same time are “negligible”. Because, I don’t know, it’s “hard to detect” but somehow you can tell me that it doesn’t matter except it does so that’s why it should stay the way it is.

Think of it this way… I am taking part in a lottery, buying 1 ticket gives me a chance to win the jackpot, if i buy another ticket I double my chances so you’re saying it matters that i buy an extra ticket as my chances have just increased by 100% and thats true but when compared to the grand scheme of things and factor in all the different numbers that 100% is actually negligible.

sure it matters if an army of fully gear max level characters fight an army of the same size of low level under gear characters but thats not what we’re saying, we’re saying nearly every single time you’ll be fighting an army of different sizes where both sides have different level characters, with different gear types, different boons / conditions, different tiers of gear, different sieges, different builds. An in each army you’ll have some using food, some using other consumables that give statistical advantages, some who will not etc.. gear tier is just one variable amongst many. Sure it makes a difference but in favor or against in the grand scheme of things it will not matter much.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

TainoFuerte.8136:

Yes, explain to me how in a game where virtually every interaction with your opponent is reliant on number calculations, extra numbers don’t matter.

Explain to me how you reached these conclusions. How do you know gear makes no difference in this situation but not these I’ve selected? Because I’m sure I’ve been in zerg battles where I’ve not gotten downed and become a rally bot by about 100 HP and that these battles are, coincidentally, the biggest most brutal ones that we really want to win for Stonemist or a Keep. Surely it makes no difference if an army of As men fights an army of newbies in rares of exotics right?

I’m genuinely interested in which statistical technique you used to determine the percentage of “non-trivial” yet, at the same time, at the same time are “negligible”. Because, I don’t know, it’s “hard to detect” but somehow you can tell me that it doesn’t matter except it does so that’s why it should stay the way it is.

I just laugh now when they claim the differences are trivial but when anyone brings up the topic of capping WvW at exotic level gear they scream bloody murder. I guess they get mad when the possibility of the gear they worked “so hard” for gets invalidated. You know, that supposedly trivial gear with negligible impact.

Incidentally, these are probably the same people who scream at dungeon pugs for not being in full zerker because it’s suboptimal.

dont generalize, I say the difference is trivial and you can remove it as much as you want. Also not only you dont have to be full zerg to party with me for dungeons I dont care if you’re even sub level 80!

TainoFuerte.8136:

Mackdose.6504:

Law of averages. If you think I’m going to go commission a study to compile a kitten load of real-world data just to have your confirmation bias say it was flawed, you’ve got another think coming.

So, what you mean to say is that you’ve got nothing. Ok.

The numbers aren’t important with the gap is small, it’s the execution by the players that will determine the outcome.

Right, that’s why nobody bothers getting Ascended gear in the first place, and why nobody bothers getting Iron Branches in DOTA because they give you a single sad, lonely point in damage. Small differences don’t matter in PvP. Tell me more.

What everyone is arguing here is that since the numbers are higher, you are already favored in the fight by default.

My argument is that the advantage given by higher stats is easily overcome by a multitude of factors that make the advantage null and void.

Your argument does not invalidate the first. “Well, stats aren’t everything.” Ok? That doesn’t make them go away.

no offence you keep bringing dota up but last i checked dota was not 500vs500vs500 with a random number of people joining either of the 3 teams where you could build siege engines that do many times the damage of a single player and effect 5x as many targets as any AOE attack any of those 1500 can do etc.. Iron branch makes a difference in dota cause in dota you’re faced with a balanced fight. no +1 to any attribute is going to make a difference when you are likely to find yourself in a fight where you’re outnumbered or out classed because they got more siege weapons etc…

Dota is closer to SPvP then WvW and their like you correctly state stats matter more so everyone is given the same stats. WvW isnt that not even close though

its make sense to grade down ascendeds and legendarys. i play only wvw and dont want my enemy be better player as me just because he farmed a lot in pve

danielrjones.8759:

if they should get rid of ascended gear from wvw, then they should do the same thing in wvw as s/tpvp when someone maps in, all gear changes to wvw gear no exceptions. No food of anykind either. Since food is something which can be crafted. No buffs of anykind except wvw booster. This is of course, only if true balance is sought.

if you do all these changes do you feel WvW will become balanced?

Julie Yann.5379:

The problem with the ascended gear is that you are forced to play content that you have no interest in to get it. It takes 5 days to make 1 ascended weapon. If you can only play 3 days a week for a 2 or 3 hour session then it would take 2 weeks to make that weapon and those playing sessions are reduced to doing the mandatory dungeon runs (cause that is the best source of Empyreals) and the meta bosses (best source for dragonite) cause that is the time it takes to gather all the mats for 1 crafting session. For a WvW fan it really sucks cause it takes time away from what they enjoy most. If you were to gather you materials solely in WvW it would take you over a month to gather all the mats at 2-3 hours 3 or 4 times a week. It’s not about being lazy or unwilling, it’s about how time gating account bound items hurt the people who can’t log in for a few hours every day. Even if you could play for 12 hours strait on saturdays it would take you 9 weeks to make 1 weapons. How can people not see a problem with this design? With ascended armor coming soon I can see why people are unhappy about it.

but why does that have to be a problem? why is it so bad to choose to spend 1 month playing something you enjoy to get an ascended weapon over a week of something you dont enjoy? its not like in those 3 extra weeks you’ll spend playing the stuff you enjoy you’ll be unable to compete with the players who took the short cut if we want to call it that.

I’ll admit that my WvW experience is limited. I have played largescale PvP, however, mainly in Warhammer Online (RIP), and GW1 if you consider ABs.

But I did play a lot of GW1 PvP. I didn’t do a whole lot of GvG but I watched it every day. The rest of the PvP I played a WHOLE LOT. In relation to the thread, I’ll only say this:

I cannot even begin to count the times I’ve ended a fight with an abysmally low amount of health. You know how many times I ended a fight with 1 hp? 6. I can still remember that after all this time, but I also remember always have max stated gear. Going from a 28hp sword pommel to a 30hp one made that much of a difference.

I’m not going to ignore that there were a million other factors that could’ve been at play. Maybe I was poorly skilled, didn’t optomise my builds, got in a fight where people were at different losses of health – the list could go on. But I think it’s without a doubt that investing into best-in-slot gear can really affect the outcome in a fight.

Which is why I’m completely baffled that WvW even has any vertical progression at all. In any competetive game, video or otherwise, an even played field will always provide the most fair, balanced, and satisfying gameplay. There’s nothing satisfying, nor anything to learn from a fight ending because one invested into more money than the other.

morrolan.9608:

Xae Isareth.1364:

To be honest, Ascended gear makes pretty much no difference in WvW. The game mode has so many forms of imbalance that adding a minuscule stat difference changes nuts all.

>10% is not minuscule, then add in asc armor and its greater. Depending on how you play it can make a difference.

It’s just over 5% for the weapon. The numbers of players on each side is never even to begin with so the other Zerg having 1 more person for every 20 you got already cancels out that difference.

WvW is a war, not a small skirmish.

Some times WvW is a largescale war, other times it is a small skirmish if you’re out doing 2-5 man havoc flipping camps, capping for bloodlust, etc. In those sorts of situations it does matter, but even then only when it really comes down to the wire (somewhat rare but it happens). Good havoc teams DO make a difference in WvW btw. If you’re running havoc and you’re not… you’re doing it wrong.

You will not be able to get ascended weapons just from doing WvW as is. At the very least the stupidly low amount of dragonite you receive will prevent that. That’s silly. You should be rewarded somewhat evenly no matter what game mode you play. I mean you’re playing for fun + rewards, right? You should be able to get those regardless of what you spend your time doing. The notion that you should only get these from PvE is just coming from those who already have done the PvE to get them… and want you to have to go through what they went through as well (again silly).

At the same time you should be able to use gear obtained in PvE in WvW… so removing them from WvW is silly.

The solution would be to make the rewards in WvW on par with PvE (in the works).

They also said they would be bringing ascended gear into WvW via laurels + badges btw… but no ETA or amounts of either have been stated.

Now quit fighting PvE carebear and WvW hardcore ppl.

Seriously… this whole thread…

I’m not saying you shouldn’t be able to get Ascended weapons in WvW or that WvW has very lacklustre rewards at the moment.

I’m saying that WvW is balanced around huge fights and not small skirmishes. At least it was initially, not sure about why we got this bloodlust mechanic in place now.

Aldo, fights that come down to the wire happens so rarely that it’s pretty much negligible, even in havoc teams. I can count the number of times where I’ve had a small skirmish with an equal number of people on each side on one hand, and half the time there we get interrupted halfway with reinforcements.

Galen Grey.4709:

Julie Yann.5379:

The problem with the ascended gear is that you are forced to play content that you have no interest in to get it. It takes 5 days to make 1 ascended weapon. If you can only play 3 days a week for a 2 or 3 hour session then it would take 2 weeks to make that weapon and those playing sessions are reduced to doing the mandatory dungeon runs (cause that is the best source of Empyreals) and the meta bosses (best source for dragonite) cause that is the time it takes to gather all the mats for 1 crafting session. For a WvW fan it really sucks cause it takes time away from what they enjoy most. If you were to gather you materials solely in WvW it would take you over a month to gather all the mats at 2-3 hours 3 or 4 times a week. It’s not about being lazy or unwilling, it’s about how time gating account bound items hurt the people who can’t log in for a few hours every day. Even if you could play for 12 hours strait on saturdays it would take you 9 weeks to make 1 weapons. How can people not see a problem with this design? With ascended armor coming soon I can see why people are unhappy about it.

but why does that have to be a problem? why is it so bad to choose to spend 1 month playing something you enjoy to get an ascended weapon over a week of something you dont enjoy? its not like in those 3 extra weeks you’ll spend playing the stuff you enjoy you’ll be unable to compete with the players who took the short cut if we want to call it that.

That’s over a month for 1 weapon, I have 5 weapons for 3 builds I use in WvW only on my main. I have 3 alts with 2 builds each, 5 more weapons. It would take a year to get BiS weapons only playing the part of the game that I enjoy. That’s just the weapons, add in the armor, 9 sets, and you have an endless gear grind. It also kills the fun out of experimenting with new builds cause who wants to go through the trouble of inventing a new build that won’t have BiS for months?

I know a friend of mine who quit GW2 because of the ascended gear.

He said that Anet broke their promise for “skill over gear”.

Since this whole thread is hasty generalizations…

How kitten hurt would the anti-ascended crowd be if they got their wish and everything was evenly set like spvp and they still sucked? I mean, right now you can use the “well he had ascended gear!” as a defense mechanism. When you still get thrown in the dumpster on an even field what will happen to your ego then?

No, I think you guys are best off not finding out that the emperor has no clothes. The reality of the situation might be too upsetting for you.

FrostSpectre.4198:

I know a friend of mine who quit GW2 because of the ascended gear.

He said that Anet broke their promise for “skill over gear”.

Guess he didn’t know that the gear doesn’t mean automatic win, and that skill still far out shines the gear. If my level 35 character can beat people with ascended gear that are trying to beat me, that should tell you something about skill over gear.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Since this whole thread is hasty generalizations…

How kitten hurt would the anti-ascended crowd be if they got their wish and everything was evenly set like spvp and they still sucked? I mean, right now you can use the “well he had ascended gear!” as a defense mechanism. When you still get thrown in the dumpster on an even field what will happen to your ego then?

No, I think you guys are best off not finding out that the emperor has no clothes. The reality of the situation might be too upsetting for you.

That was my thoughts too. People drastically over estimate themselves while simultaneously under estimate their opponents.

And I gotta wonder how much these people are actually worried about wvw balance when they can easily come face to face with a level 10 up level in a full set of whites while they are decked out in exotics.

I’m sure it’s totally fair that they can instagib that level 10 up level while they’re worrying about the slight stat advantage that ascended gives.

If we want wvw to be completely fair and balanced (lol) a lot more needs to change than just removing ascended gear.

Smith.1826:

…
I cannot even begin to count the times I’ve ended a fight with an abysmally low amount of health. You know how many times I ended a fight with 1 hp? 6. I can still remember that after all this time, but I also remember always have max stated gear. Going from a 28hp sword pommel to a 30hp one made that much of a difference.

What’s up 1 hp (attach #1)

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Since this whole thread is hasty generalizations…

How kitten hurt would the anti-ascended crowd be if they got their wish and everything was evenly set like spvp and they still sucked? I mean, right now you can use the “well he had ascended gear!” as a defense mechanism. When you still get thrown in the dumpster on an even field what will happen to your ego then?

No, I think you guys are best off not finding out that the emperor has no clothes. The reality of the situation might be too upsetting for you.

So people who promote a more balanced game over a power creep game and are WvW enthousiasts, some of them only playing WvW for a year on… well obviously suck at WvW and PvP in general, and justify their deaths on Ascended geared enemies? Are you for real. :-)

Could it be the other way around, and the power creep guys think only of their own power, forgetting the bigger picture and game-balance? Make your own conclusions.

If you’d rather have yet another advantage over your opponent before the fight even start, that’s your call. Does it make you a good PvPer? Again, people can make their own conclusions out of this one.

fellyn.5083:

That was my thoughts too. People drastically over estimate themselves and under estimate their opponents.

And I gotta wonder how much these people are worried about wvw when they can easily come face to face with a level 10 up level in a full set of whites while they are decked out in exotics.

I’m sure it’s totally fair that they can insta gib that level 10 up level while they’re worrying about the slight stat advantage that ascended gives.

If we want wvw to fair and balanced (lol) a lot more needs to change than just removing ascended gear.

So, instead of making it more balanced, we should keep making it worse? This way, we will surely work towards a more balanced game (Not). This game won’t improve much if we… just make it worse. Kinda makes sense, does it.

Julie Yann.5379:

Galen Grey.4709:

Julie Yann.5379:

The problem with the ascended gear is that you are forced to play content that you have no interest in to get it. It takes 5 days to make 1 ascended weapon. If you can only play 3 days a week for a 2 or 3 hour session then it would take 2 weeks to make that weapon and those playing sessions are reduced to doing the mandatory dungeon runs (cause that is the best source of Empyreals) and the meta bosses (best source for dragonite) cause that is the time it takes to gather all the mats for 1 crafting session. For a WvW fan it really sucks cause it takes time away from what they enjoy most. If you were to gather you materials solely in WvW it would take you over a month to gather all the mats at 2-3 hours 3 or 4 times a week. It’s not about being lazy or unwilling, it’s about how time gating account bound items hurt the people who can’t log in for a few hours every day. Even if you could play for 12 hours strait on saturdays it would take you 9 weeks to make 1 weapons. How can people not see a problem with this design? With ascended armor coming soon I can see why people are unhappy about it.

but why does that have to be a problem? why is it so bad to choose to spend 1 month playing something you enjoy to get an ascended weapon over a week of something you dont enjoy? its not like in those 3 extra weeks you’ll spend playing the stuff you enjoy you’ll be unable to compete with the players who took the short cut if we want to call it that.

That’s over a month for 1 weapon, I have 5 weapons for 3 builds I use in WvW only on my main. I have 3 alts with 2 builds each, 5 more weapons. It would take a year to get BiS weapons only playing the part of the game that I enjoy. That’s just the weapons, add in the armor, 9 sets, and you have an endless gear grind. It also kills the fun out of experimenting with new builds cause who wants to go through the trouble of inventing a new build that won’t have BiS for months?

Thing is ascended weapons or not you’ll still spent those 5 months playing the same thing! Thats not counting that you’re likely to get ascended weapon drops too in those 5 months which might save you a month in an instant.

As for armor we have no clue how they’re be acquirable. So kinda hard to factor that in right now. then again 9 sets.. thats not going to be quick at all for sure. Its not meant to be though this is a reward purposely intended to sit somewhere in between exotic (days) to legendary (year?) so it will never be extremely quick to get

Shiver.5903:

TainoFuerte.8136 & aliksyian.7642

Good stuff guys, a good laugh before going to bed, thank you very much :-).

- – -

People in this topic saying “Ascended doesn’t change anything… but lets not remove it from WvW” are all too well aware Ascended does provide them another advantage over the casual/new players. And they want to keep this (unfair) avantage.

This is the “I win because of my gear” mentality and I don’t find it interesting for a PvP environment. Now maybe you do, and maybe you need that gear to be even slightly competitive. But it doesn’t change the facts : the gap is bigger for the new/casual player, and the pro-teams stomp even more.

As for the grind-fest part, Julie Yann.5379 summed it up very well. The dedicated WvWers, the people who play well and for whom WvW is not just another farm, the people who scout, defend, sometimes getting very little rewards for hours on end playing defense, manning trebs, etc. Yes, for those people that only got a couple hours of play per day and want to have FUN for those couple hours, well Ascended is indeed a big grind. A big grind is not an achievement, IMO it is a just a huge waste of valuable time.

You love mining stone and cutting down trees? You love your crafting? Good for you, but I know lots of people who hate it. What if you don’t like WvW much, and the ONLY way in the game to get the top gear for this game would be… hmmm… to pay 10000 badges? There would be RIVERS of tears, it would be a cataclysm, I mean we’re talking Fukushima all over again.

The top gear in a PvP environment should be attainable through PvP, period. I don’t even understand how there can be arguing on this. Mining, chopping wood, crafting and any other (garbage, IMO, I am not judging you, but for me and many others, it is garbage) grind doesn’t qualify as ‘PvP’. It doesn’t even qualify as a “fun” activity for many people. In the end, a lumberjack should not be better geared than a warlord.

- – -

The WvW enthousiasts you read in this topic want a more balanced field to play in WvW, less useless grind and more time to play the game they love, as well as an Alt-Friendly / New-Player Friendlly environment.

The power-creep people you read in this topic want a less balanced field to play in, where they have a bigger advantage over new/casual players in WvW, looking for easier kills/victories, with a bigger gap between them and new/casual players, making them special snowflakes.

Now I just wanted to make it clear. You can’t be in both camps. I know where I stand.

Exactly this.

Ascended supporters should just admit that they want that leg up against newer, inexperienced players as well as against people whose activity of choice doesn’t provided the mats necessary to craft ascended items. Stop saying it doesn’t matter.

If it didn’t matter, you wouldn’t participate in the horrible and expensive mind numbing grind (don’t say you’re doing it for the skins because they are ghastly), and you wouldn’t be here arguing with people who want a more even playing field.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Exactly this.

Ascended supporters should just admit that they want that leg up against newer, inexperienced players as well as against people whose activity of choice doesn’t provided the mats necessary to craft ascended items. Stop saying it doesn’t matter.

If it didn’t matter, you wouldn’t participate in the horrible and expensive mind numbing grind (don’t say you’re doing it for the skins because they are ghastly), and you wouldn’t be here arguing with people who want a more even playing field.

As a matter of fact I dont participate, not a single ascended piece owned.

We’re not arguing with people about wanting a more level playing field only saying that it isnt a good idea to make your own life worst forcing yourself to get a bigger gun because you feel you’d be a disadvantage without it when you got tanks and planes to deal with too.

In the grand scheme of leveling playing fields ascended gear is a pretty minor issue.

Galen Grey.4709:

TooBz.3065:

That was what I was going to do. Then ANet nerfed Karma (so many respects into Rabid gear / PVT and I don’t have much karma left), so they made the most important WvW stats difficult to get.

Also, I don’t like always being less powerful than the next guy. I’m fine with getting stomped when I mess up, or when I’m outplayed. I do mind when I almost win a fight, but get stomped by someone wielding ascended weapons. Cause I don’t know if I got outplayed or just out grinded (it’s that a word??? You know what I mean).

And frankly, unless you have BiS gear, you don’t really know what the build can do. Is it less effective because a) I stink (always a possibility) or b) because I’m operating at a 5-8% deficit against other players.

Edit: Oh, and I’m bad a pattern recognition, so my brain always thinks “this will be my main, better start gearing up to ascended.” however, 4 – “this will be my main’s” later, I’m ready to throw the computer out the window.

Those however are not your 2 only possibilities. You also have
c) we were outnumbered
d) the other team was better at supporting each other
e) the other team was better at crowd control
f) the other team used more consumables then us
g) my team was less optimal then the other team
h) they had more seige weapons then us
i) rng was against us
j) they had a better build
k) they used a more effective consumable combination
l) they had a better tactical position
m) they had better co-ordination
n) we had more lower level players then they did
o) I was picked as a target by multiple members of the opposing team
p) no one supported me from my team
q) I was in front of my team
I could go on but I guess its enough to prove the point that there is a reason why arenanet state WvW is inbalanced because there are so many factors that come into play that its impossible to balance and those same variables make it impossible to point to any single reason of why you died in a fight.

To me, that argument is a cop out. It’s like saying it doesn’t matter if I have to fight with one hand tied behind my back because the other guy may have had a better breakfast (obviously ascended isn’t that severe but it makes the point). An advantage is an advantage. Just people there are other imbalances in the game does change the fact that this is another one.

Put another way, even if there are many factors that may contribute to a loss, an imbalance in ascended gear will always be a contributing factor, and frankly one we don’t need.

Further, I think ascended gear hurts the game. I think it kills variety. For me, variety is a contributing factor that keeps me playing the game. But I guess that doesn’t matter either.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Since this whole thread is hasty generalizations…

How kitten hurt would the anti-ascended crowd be if they got their wish and everything was evenly set like spvp and they still sucked? I mean, right now you can use the “well he had ascended gear!” as a defense mechanism. When you still get thrown in the dumpster on an even field what will happen to your ego then?

No, I think you guys are best off not finding out that the emperor has no clothes. The reality of the situation might be too upsetting for you.

Ah, there’s the DnT attitude I’ve come to expect. Yes, we all sucketh majorly. However, I would rather know that I suck for certain. Who knows it may improve the community as all of us bads will quit the game and leave it pristine for the rest of you.

Edit: Also if ANet didn’t insist that I grind out the same kitten ascended weapon for each of my alts, I wouldn’t give a kitten. I always just have 1 main.

Shiver.5903:

Smith.1826:

…
I cannot even begin to count the times I’ve ended a fight with an abysmally low amount of health. You know how many times I ended a fight with 1 hp? 6. I can still remember that after all this time, but I also remember always have max stated gear. Going from a 28hp sword pommel to a 30hp one made that much of a difference.

What’s up 1 hp (attach #1)

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Since this whole thread is hasty generalizations…

How kitten hurt would the anti-ascended crowd be if they got their wish and everything was evenly set like spvp and they still sucked? I mean, right now you can use the “well he had ascended gear!” as a defense mechanism. When you still get thrown in the dumpster on an even field what will happen to your ego then?

No, I think you guys are best off not finding out that the emperor has no clothes. The reality of the situation might be too upsetting for you.

So people who promote a more balanced game over a power creep game and are WvW enthousiasts, some of them only playing WvW for a year on… well obviously suck at WvW and PvP in general, and justify their deaths on Ascended geared enemies? Are you for real. :-)

Could it be the other way around, and the power creep guys think only of their own power, forgetting the bigger picture and game-balance? Make your own conclusions.

If you’d rather have yet another advantage over your opponent before the fight even start, that’s your call. Does it make you a good PvPer? Again, people can make their own conclusions out of this one.

fellyn.5083:

That was my thoughts too. People drastically over estimate themselves and under estimate their opponents.

And I gotta wonder how much these people are worried about wvw when they can easily come face to face with a level 10 up level in a full set of whites while they are decked out in exotics.

I’m sure it’s totally fair that they can insta gib that level 10 up level while they’re worrying about the slight stat advantage that ascended gives.

If we want wvw to fair and balanced (lol) a lot more needs to change than just removing ascended gear.

So, instead of making it more balanced, we should keep making it worse? This way, we will surely work towards a more balanced game (Not). This game won’t improve much if we… just make it worse. Kinda makes sense, does it.

I’m not sure if you’re aware of this but it’s not supposed to be balanced. That’s why it’s 1v1v1 and you can fight people who have 1000 hours and the best gear or a level 2 who has 30 minutes under their belt and not even a full set of white gear at the same time.

My point is no one complains about fighting the easier opponents just those that might pose a slightly bigger challenge. And that if you remove one extreme you need to remove the other as well. But yet again, no one complains that they can fight up levels who are basically free kills.

fellyn.5083:

Shiver.5903:

Smith.1826:

…
I cannot even begin to count the times I’ve ended a fight with an abysmally low amount of health. You know how many times I ended a fight with 1 hp? 6. I can still remember that after all this time, but I also remember always have max stated gear. Going from a 28hp sword pommel to a 30hp one made that much of a difference.

What’s up 1 hp (attach #1)

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Since this whole thread is hasty generalizations…

How kitten hurt would the anti-ascended crowd be if they got their wish and everything was evenly set like spvp and they still sucked? I mean, right now you can use the “well he had ascended gear!” as a defense mechanism. When you still get thrown in the dumpster on an even field what will happen to your ego then?

No, I think you guys are best off not finding out that the emperor has no clothes. The reality of the situation might be too upsetting for you.

So people who promote a more balanced game over a power creep game and are WvW enthousiasts, some of them only playing WvW for a year on… well obviously suck at WvW and PvP in general, and justify their deaths on Ascended geared enemies? Are you for real. :-)

Could it be the other way around, and the power creep guys think only of their own power, forgetting the bigger picture and game-balance? Make your own conclusions.

If you’d rather have yet another advantage over your opponent before the fight even start, that’s your call. Does it make you a good PvPer? Again, people can make their own conclusions out of this one.

fellyn.5083:

That was my thoughts too. People drastically over estimate themselves and under estimate their opponents.

And I gotta wonder how much these people are worried about wvw when they can easily come face to face with a level 10 up level in a full set of whites while they are decked out in exotics.

I’m sure it’s totally fair that they can insta gib that level 10 up level while they’re worrying about the slight stat advantage that ascended gives.

If we want wvw to fair and balanced (lol) a lot more needs to change than just removing ascended gear.

So, instead of making it more balanced, we should keep making it worse? This way, we will surely work towards a more balanced game (Not). This game won’t improve much if we… just make it worse. Kinda makes sense, does it.

I’m not sure if you’re aware of this but it’s not supposed to be balanced. That’s why it’s 1v1v1 and you can fight people who have 1000 hours and the best gear or a level 2 who has 30 minutes under their belt and not even a full set of white gear at the same time.

My point is no one complains about fighting the easier opponents just those that might pose a slightly bigger challenge. And that if you remove one extreme you need to remove the other as well. But yet again, no one complains that they can fight up levels who are basically free kills.

Free kills, eh? There have been several people in these ascended gear threads who make the claim that their upleveled character kills people with ascended weapons “all the time.” So which is it?

And upleveling is fine because they get to level in WvW in exchange for not having access to all of their traits.

Because those people don’t know any better and they are the future of our map (Levellers/New players). What do you want to do, kick them out? One of the greatest things about Guild Wars is that you can level/play the game however you want and you’ll achieve the same rewards, THAT IS THEIR MANIFESTO. Your argument is completely flawed, those level 10 players are having fun and learning PvP/enjoying a game mode because maybe, just maybe, they don’t like to do 20 dynamic hearts (Go collect feed and give it to cows) per level.

People who spend hundreds of hours grinding ascended gear for a gear and statistical advantage over their opponent know fully well what they are doing and are basically the kind of people who would bring a gun to a knife fight (slight exaggeration but you get my point). So please do not compare them to people who are having fun and levelling in WvWvW, every one has to start somewhere, this is my exact point of this thread, it’s about pushing elitism out of this mode, I was personally attacked last night after logging in by some PvE hero with 10k achievement points for making this thread, just goes to show the kind of community most PvE players have, you’ve seen the kind of attitude in WoW for years lf 2m 10000+gs link achiev or ignore and it’s transcending to GW now. I’m going to say this that is going to offend people but it’s completely true. Gear grinds attract people with no life/career who dedicate 10+ hours a day on a game and take it extremely serious because sadly, they have nothing else going for them.

This also has nothing to do with 1v1s, nobody cares, and to be honest, I’m in a better position then most people since Desolation is one of the biggest PvE servers in EU, so if anything my zerg will probably be almost fully ascended compared to other servers, but that’s not the point, if Deso has 20 people fully ascended and Gandara has 5 people only, who do you think would win? Vice versa.

Also, 1v1 /2v2/3v3 don’t matter but hey, it can matter a lot, you never know, what if it’s a 3v3 battle competing for a very important resource/supply camp at a very important time? It’s all subjective.

But the above is not even as important as this: WvW players should not be forced to PvE to get the best gear, that’s the point, if you think that’s fair then think of this, how would you feel if you could only buy Ascended Gear/Weapons with Honour badges?

TooBz.3065:

To me, that argument is a cop out. It’s like saying it doesn’t matter if I have to fight with one hand tied behind my back because the other guy may have had a better breakfast (obviously ascended isn’t that severe but it makes the point). An advantage is an advantage. Just people there are other imbalances in the game does change the fact that this is another one.

Put another way, even if there are many factors that may contribute to a loss, an imbalance in ascended gear will always be a contributing factor, and frankly one we don’t need.

Further, I think ascended gear hurts the game. I think it kills variety. For me, variety is a contributing factor that keeps me playing the game. But I guess that doesn’t matter either.

It is a contributing factor no doubt but one which we’re psychologically conditions by other games to think its larger then it really is.

No one complained ever that siege weapons where an unbalance. No one complained that having as many as 500 players per server in such a huge map is unbalancing. Yet having 500 players per server in such a huge map makes it (theoratically) so that its in the real of possiblity that you a single lone players comes face to face with a force of 1000 enemies you have to fight solo. But no one complains about that what they complain about is ascended gear and its 5% advantage never mind the potential 100,000% disadvantage you could find yourself in a fight (and we didnt factor in siege weapons here) (exageration i know but i dont think its undeniable that both siege engines and 500 player count per serve and the size of a map create a much bigger imbalance then ascended gear ever could) why do we have no problem accepting the big issues and feel like the world is ending because of the small issue?

Galen Grey.4709:

TooBz.3065:

To me, that argument is a cop out. It’s like saying it doesn’t matter if I have to fight with one hand tied behind my back because the other guy may have had a better breakfast (obviously ascended isn’t that severe but it makes the point). An advantage is an advantage. Just people there are other imbalances in the game does change the fact that this is another one.

Put another way, even if there are many factors that may contribute to a loss, an imbalance in ascended gear will always be a contributing factor, and frankly one we don’t need.

Further, I think ascended gear hurts the game. I think it kills variety. For me, variety is a contributing factor that keeps me playing the game. But I guess that doesn’t matter either.

It is a contributing factor no doubt but one which we’re psychologically conditions by other games to think its larger then it really is.

No one complained ever that siege weapons where an unbalance. No one complained that having as many as 500 players per server in such a huge map is unbalancing. Yet having 500 players per server in such a huge map makes it (theoratically) so that its in the real of possiblity that you a single lone players comes face to face with a force of 1000 enemies you have to fight solo. But no one complains about that what they complain about is ascended gear and its 5% advantage never mind the potential 100,000% disadvantage you could find yourself in a fight (and we didnt factor in siege weapons here) (exageration i know but i dont think its undeniable that both siege engines and 500 player count per serve and the size of a map create a much bigger imbalance then ascended gear ever could) why do we have no problem accepting the big issues and feel like the world is ending because of the small issue?

How the hell are Siege Weapons a disadvantage? To they randomly spawn in the middle of a battle? Because I always thought Commanders bought the prints and then they were built by the players in the map with supplies gathered from capturing supply camps.

Oh and the population imbalance is a lot harder to fix then scaling gear to Exotic. There’s a reason why MMOs always have dead/imbalanced servers, it’s not an easy issue to fix, if you can think of one then I’d try and get a job with a big developer, you’ll probably be paid quite well.

Julie Yann.5379:

That’s over a month for 1 weapon, I have 5 weapons for 3 builds I use in WvW only on my main. I have 3 alts with 2 builds each, 5 more weapons. It would take a year to get BiS weapons only playing the part of the game that I enjoy. That’s just the weapons, add in the armor, 9 sets, and you have an endless gear grind. It also kills the fun out of experimenting with new builds cause who wants to go through the trouble of inventing a new build that won’t have BiS for months?

This…I agree with, especially the last part. Ever since ascended weapons came along, I have had very little interest in WvW because, in order to get the best weapons and try to even the odds, it takes a lot of grinding and a ton of waiting for time-limited refreshes of crafting materials and dragonite. But, even more than this, it really DOES kill the desire to try to experiment with different builds…the two/four weapons you got with zerk in mind, well you would have to go through the same amount of time and drudgery to get ascended versions if you decided to try a condition build or pvt or something else…OR if you wanted to play fair with an alt and get the alt’s weapons up to par, same problem: Takes forever. Experimenting with builds is severely hampered when you have time-gated equipment.

So I rarely play wvw anymore. I only got one ascended weapon, a few ascended rings and ammys…but the weapons are just no fun to bother with, they take way too long to acquire and kill my desire to play wvw because of the fairness factor and amount of time it would take to try a new build.

Should this make me want to get legendaries? Yuck, what an incredible amount of grinding I would have to do for those…yes I could pick the stats at will, but it would take as long to get all the stuff for one legendary as it takes to make like 10+ ascended weapons…

I don’t like grinding. It’s boring. I like quick rewards because I’m a human being with limited time in this world to 1. play videogames, and 2. be alive. We don’t have infinite time – that is the missing concept in these grinding challenges. Not everyone is willing or able to devote that much time just to even the playing field…

…..and so I have been playing PvP a lot more lately. And SimCity. Because GW2 isn’t as fun since the ascended weapons came out, and since they nerf my favorite profession every time (thief).