Guild Wars 2

UnderdogSMO.9428:

You do relize alot of people that bother going to forums only go to kitten most people that are happy with the content dont bother

I don’t think that’s necessarily true. I’m happy with the content and constantly visit the forums.

You never know what little gems, nuggets, hints, tricks or tips you’ll learn about the game just by reading the forums.

Maybe the biggest problem right now is there are players from another MMO who are bored with that game trying out GW2. The forums run by that game are like a prison island where everyone has a gun. You can be as nasty as you want toward other posters and the game itself because there is little to no moderation.

I like the heavy handed moderation on these forums. It keeps the focus on the game and not on particular posters who just like to run their mouths.

Gospel.7630:

The QQers and the slanderers of QQers are both being addressed by the OP. It’s simply a matter of using better words when expressing your opinion. For example:

A: This game sucks! I feel totally ripped off by Anet!! I spent hours in FotM just to watch them make these lame changes to dailies and offer lazy players the same rewards!

Or

B: I’m disappointed in Anet’s decision to make Fotm rewards available by other less difficult means while not compensating me for my time & effort spent.

Not the best example but I hope you get it.

I understood the post perfectly.

I’m simply pointing out that right now, anyone who expresses any complaint about the game is declared a QQing crybaby who should go back to WoW.

That’s not good for the longevity of the game. A healthy degree of negativity will keep the devs honest and will allow for a much better dialogue. But right now we see a lot of players who would rather blindly defend the game as the pinnacle of perfection than have a real discussion about some of the game’s drawbacks and how they might be improved.

The run their mouths comment made me laugh. But I’m sure someone out there will be angered by it. Maybe saying they like to burst fluff would be effective yet inoffensive. It would probably make them laugh too (seeing as it is a term they are unfamiliar with but still receive the meaning due to the context).

Just saying

Gospel.7630:

A: This game sucks! I feel totally ripped off by Anet!! I spent hours in FotM just to watch them make these lame changes to dailies and offer lazy players the same rewards!

Or

B: I’m disappointed in Anet’s decision to make Fotm rewards available by other less difficult means while not compensating me for my time & effort spent.

I find it easy enough to ignore the first two statements in sample A, and from there can have the same conversation whether I’m responding to the last statement in sample A or to sample B.

The least useful posts I see on the forums are the ones which harp on the first two statements of sample A. There’s literally no value in discussing them.

If you want a happy funtime forum, go back to whatever dead game you previously said you’d support forever and ever (and by you I mean in the general sense, not you personally guy I quote above). I personally can’t even read through a forum covered in wall-to-wall praise for a game, because there’s literally nothing there of value to the average gamer.

What’s constructive about “omg I luv this game!!11!”? Nothing. There’s actually more value, albeit only marginally so, in any troll thread, let alone the most vitriolic of QQs.

critickitten.1498:

But right now we see a lot of players who would rather blindly defend the game as the pinnacle of perfection than have a real discussion about some of the game’s drawbacks and how they might be improved.

To be fair, most of the players who are significantly dissatisfied with the game have moved on, or been pushed off the forums by the one-sided moderating.

As time goes on, the more fanboys comprise a growing share of the feedback, the less likely it is the game goes anywhere but into that same dead zone practically every MMO drops to.

I don’t think Anet set out to make a 100k subscriber game (or in this case, something like 200-500k non-subscribers), but that’s exactly where fanboys take games.

Why the players that are now giving lessons of “bon-ton”, are not asking why we are at this point?

You are happy with the game, good for you, im just wondering what will you do when some modification that break the game for you will come out, and (if you decide to it) when you go to ask clarification, you receive only:

- silence
- pr made stuff
- explainations that are deliberately incomplete or vague.
- thread locking

now do this for 10 or 100 times, and in the end look your first post, and then the last.

attack poeple with anger (like sadly im used to do sometime) or totally ignoring them when they have payed for your service… are the same thing, no respect on both side in the end.

Ganzo.5079:

no respect on both side in the end.

Of course not, this is the internet. You’re foolish if you expect it otherwise.

So far I like all the input on the topic. It seems there lies (albeit obscure) a general agreement. Less QQing, less XoXo, less hyperbolic language and more details? Does that sound close?

Peace,

Ganzo.5079:

Why the players that are now giving lessons of “bon-ton”, are not asking why we are at this point?

You are happy with the game, good for you, im just wondering what will you do when some modification that break the game for you will come out, and (if you decide to it) when you go to ask clarification, you receive only:

- silence
- pr made stuff
- explainations that are deliberately incomplete or vague.
- thread locking

now do this for 10 or 100 times, and in the end look your first post, and then the last.

attack poeple with anger (like sadly im used to do sometime) or totally ignoring them when they have payed for your service… are the same thing, no respect on both side in the end.

I’d stop playing.

For example I stopped playing The Secret World because I disliked their attempt at WvW. I expressed my opinion. Their (the developers) vision for the game was different from mine so I left. A large amount of others did the same to the point it went from subscription to B2P. <—Something a large portion of the population was asking for.

For some people that was a deal worth returning to. Not me though, I still haven’t returned because I did not like the games WvW (my personal point in playing it). I find it hard to see the point in playing a game you do not like. The point in playing a game is enjoyment.

The question now is (to the folks who only complain) what is keeping you here?

Peace,

Gospel.7630:

Less QQing, less XoXo, less hyperbolic language and more details?

I gave up on details several MMOs ago; developers at best just ignore them, or at worst they implement some sort of frankenstein version of the details being discussed.

From their end, they want yays or nays, and going beyond that, a simple description of your most basic reaction to whatever changes they implemented. Anything more complex just gets lost in translation, or becomes subject to demands players may not be familiar with and developers won’t freely disclose.

So yes, random QQ does end up being valuable feedback. It’s actually more valuable than 99% of so-called constructive criticism, because it’s rarely bogged down by details that will just be ignored anyway.

And surely the developers are capable of wading through the kitten. I would hope most of them have a background of playing MMOs (sadly too many don’t, I fear), and understand that it’s just par for the course.

Gospel.7630:

The question now is (to the folks who only complain) what is keeping you here?

Couldn’t help yourself?

And the discussion was going so well.

Anyway, people have hundreds of hours invested into the game; you’re surprised that they would make an effort to voice their concerns? Or that they’d be satisfied with making one post in one thread that will probably fall off the front page and be forever ignored?

CoRtex.2157:

I think alot of people are mad, cus the gw1 players made anet big and in return they get a new game that’s soooo dumbed down,, it’s stupid. Have you read the skill descriptions… and where are all the skills… like whuuut??? all the gw strategy is gone,, they changed the way gear & dungeons work. They just sold us out. They care more about the money than they do about the players and the game.

I think this line has outlined the issue “They just sold us out. They care more about the money than they do about the players and the game.”

Sometimes you really try to be respectful but when certain things, real bugs, not some whiny kid wanting trinity back, aren’t fixed or acknowledge yet some other unimportant less game breaking bug is taken priority, its really a kitten in your face :o

I mean, there are times where faith is restored, that they do seem to genuinely care about their players, then other times you just feel all they care about is the money.

Anet is pretty respectful in their responses, as you can see in their dev tracker: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/devtracker

Also, if some of you guys ever worked on game forums or even done some small time game development, you’ll know right away how much flaming and “qq-ing” you get from players, no matter how well you do. However, as a usual rule, you’re required to keep a smile on and respect players in your response. Anet done a good job in responding politely.

Also, some of the arguments above say that Anet isn’t respecting a player when they don’t respond/say something about modifications. But I fail to see the argument… For most major things, they respond. Sure there are some small bug reports that they don’t respond to (I had one about character eyes rolling backwards lol), but that’s really expected considering how many bug reports there are. As a dev, you can’t personally respond to every single thing.
The same goes for content design. You can’t just “cave” in to the loudest players. You have to take in account for the quiet majority too.

There’s so many sides to things, and sometimes the best solution is to not address it without proper timing. Sometimes you already address it as best as possible with a long post, and people still choose to interpret it wrong or in a different way.

Lot of valid complaints get buried by the ballbabyweeda complainers that complain for complaining’s sake and nothing more.

If you have an issue, give details on the issue and offer what you think is a solution or an idea to make something better. Putting out solutions to issues is better then just complain, whine and ‘omg I am SO going to quit this game maybe next week but I have to stay longer to see what else I have to complain about’ philosophy. And don’t get offended if the devs don’t pick up your solution. Lot goes on us average Joes and Janes don’t see or know about decision-wise by Anet. But I do think they DO look at what we say seriously and do take it into account. What they determine to do is their call but at least we can tell them what we see and what we think may help.

If you don’t want to play this game, then don’t. No need to do the dying swan thingy, trust me no one cares you have to make the announcement YOU ARE LEAVING… Tell your friends and move on.

Aerinndis.2730:

If you have an issue, give details on the issue and offer what you think is a solution or an idea to make something better. Putting out solutions to issues is better then just complain

Not to the developers, no. They don’t want player solutions; that’s their job, to come up with solutions.

Aerinndis.2730:

And don’t get offended if the devs don’t pick up your solution. Lot goes on us average Joes and Janes don’t see or know about decision-wise by Anet.

That’s partially why player suggestions are so pointless; they can’t take into consideration the umpteen concerns developers have but don’t elaborate to the players.

As for developers actually paying attention to this stuff, they monitor it the same way they track in-game trends; at a distance, with statistics. That’s why epic levels of QQ can actually achieve change, because they’re skewing the statistics.

Aerinndis.2730:

No need to do the dying swan thingy, trust me no one cares you have to make the announcement YOU ARE LEAVING…

Well that I can agree with.

Ansultares.1567:

Gospel.7630:

Less QQing, less XoXo, less hyperbolic language and more details?

I gave up on details several MMOs ago; developers at best just ignore them, or at worst they implement some sort of frankenstein version of the details being discussed.

From their end, they want yays or nays, and going beyond that, a simple description of your most basic reaction to whatever changes they implemented. Anything more complex just gets lost in translation, or becomes subject to demands players may not be familiar with and developers won’t freely disclose.

So yes, random QQ does end up being valuable feedback. It’s actually more valuable than 99% of so-called constructive criticism, because it’s rarely bogged down by details that will just be ignored anyway.

And surely the developers are capable of wading through the kitten. I would hope most of them have a background of playing MMOs (sadly too many don’t, I fear), and understand that it’s just par for the course.

Gospel.7630:

The question now is (to the folks who only complain) what is keeping you here?

Couldn’t help yourself?

And the discussion was going so well.

Anyway, people have hundreds of hours invested into the game; you’re surprised that they would make an effort to voice their concerns? Or that they’d be satisfied with making one post in one thread that will probably fall off the front page and be forever ignored?

What exactly was wrong with the question? The question was directed at people who only complain. You’re talking about people that actually enjoyed the game until a change was made for which they have a valid grievance.

When all one does is post complaints I can presume one enjoys the game but that would be a presumption without evidence.

What I mean is when you (Ansultares.1567) consider why you play games, does it not make you wonder why someone would play a game they’ve only had negative experiences with? I’m sincerely interested in what keeps them here. The ones that only complain that is.

And to to topic. I’m not saying people should not express their opinions, I’m saying there is a more effective way of getting your point across.

Peace,

All I can say, Ansultares.1567 is kudos for having the inside track to Anet and knowing what they want as far as player solutions/ideas/stat following and what the developers follow.

I suspect they can speak for themselves and do when they need/want to.

I am not offended at all if they choose not to use player suggestions or ideas. Though we do need to state what bothers us about the game and what we think can be improved.

Ultimately if the game is not satisfactory to a player, they will leave and Anet will also figure that out. I am of the nothing ventured, nothing gained frame of mind. Put it out there, if Anet lets it slip through it is on them, they lose the players but we said what we wanted so it is never pointless to say what bothers you and if you have what you think is a solution to put it out there.