Guild Wars 2

Aproposs Of Fire.4056:

Apreposterous Fire.

Nah. His was portmanteau better.

-MyNameIsToTheLeft

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Change-in-loot-parameters-or-a-bug-Merged/page/26
I’d hardly call this jumping in, and I don’t appreciate your reckless attitude trying to force your views onto many who have generated concrete data in the last month, clearly you are entitled to your opinion since these are open forums. Do not for a moment think you can sway a host of people who not only experienced the difference but ruled out luck and posted their findings since Nov. 15th..
I want an explanation from those in charge of the game, more so a justification for burying my thread.
I once was told a good piece of advice, you may want to dial it back and grasp this; just because you think an issue is perceived by those around you does not mean it wouldn’t carry the same implications nor weight or consequences from those who believe it to be.
Everyone including those in charge should heed this lesson because the act of sweeping this under the rug can have far greater consequences long term than just admitting to their customers what real situation is; “I’m not upset that you lied to me, I’m upset that from now on I can’t believe you.”

How do we provide exactly what information you need?

We play and experience the game live. And we’ve been playing for months now. Isn’t our experience with the game enough to say that, there’s a lot of changes going on that we player are not aware of?

Play the game. Try jormag for example. See if you guys could get the same amount of loot we get before. (i know you guys are playing, it is odd that you experience the games differently than ours).

Or you guys can create your own built of the game on a private server you could only access comparing every built you release since 1-2 months ago. Maybe it will give you guys an idea on what we are saying here. (even before and after the nov 15 patch).

I am not sure if playing for 4,8 or 12 hours would generate an accurate drop rate table base on your loot table percentage so maybe you can help us here.

Any numbers of mobs we should kill?, the numbers of hours we should play?, the amount of MF we should wear (0 ~ 100%)? or the number of chest we should open for us to provide the CONCRETE DATA you were saying.

And may i remind you that it is not our TASK nor our RESPONSIBILITY to do this.

But i am willing to help for the greater good. For the community.

But maybe you guys should start asking those people who’s been testing and checking the games on your end if they notice something.

The player doesn’t know the maths, the RNG, the loot table and stuff. So please think about the CONCRETE DATA you were saying.

I don’t want to spend my whole day trying to figure it what YOU GUYS can’t figure. But i will try and help the community. This weekend i will a lot one day for this.

I hope you guys can post something, coz we are doing our part. Please do yours and give us feedback on the things that you are looking at and already found out as of the moment. Give and take that’s all i’m asking.

I love your game a lot. So please please please i hope you found something or give is feedback about this matter.

(This post was not made to offend anyone).

Avitarus.1865:

Aproposs Of Fire.4056:

Apreposterous Fire.

Nah. His was portmanteau better.

-MyNameIsToTheLeft

@ToTheLeft – Ha, that was good… but was it intentional?

And to keep it on topic – the thread is currently concerned about poor and no drops from at least Champs/Named bosses if not also Vets. (Someone suggested that Vets might be okay, though I’d have to think about that. Would better Vet drops harm the economy?)

@Vlad – That’s enough; I never once suggested that there wasn’t a change in the Nov patch – quite the opposite actually, since you refuse to go back and read it for yourself.

And demanding that Anet answer you on how they manage their own game and you promising to teach the devs a “lesson” might not be the best strategy for you. “You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.”

I get that you are obviously angry – but you might consider tempering your anger with some courtesy and patience.

Aproposs Of Fire.4056:

Avitarus.1865:

Aproposs Of Fire.4056:

Apreposterous Fire.

Nah. His was portmanteau better.

-MyNameIsToTheLeft

@ToTheLeft – Ha, that was good… but was it intentional?

And to keep it on topic – the thread is currently concerned about poor and no drops from at least Champs/Named bosses if not also Vets. (Someone suggested that Vets might be okay, though I’d have to think about that. Would better Vet drops harm the economy?)

Seriously? Can making the vets better harm the economy any more than Anet already have. These changes have made crafting completely irrelevant by driving the cost of high-end mats well beyond the point of reasonable. When it’s more profitable to sell the mats and buy the item than it is to make the item…crafting is broken… Same can be said for the cost of “good” rares and/or exotics and especially precursor weapons where the cost has bloomed well beyond the point of reasonable…the economy is out of control and really can’t get much worse…it is quickly becoming a pay2win game.

Aproposs Of Fire.4056:

@Vlad – That’s enough; I never once suggested that there wasn’t a change in the Nov patch – quite the opposite actually, since you refuse to go back and read it for yourself.

And demanding that Anet answer you on how they manage their own game and you promising to teach the devs a “lesson” might not be the best strategy for you. “You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.”

I get that you are obviously angry – but you might consider tempering your anger with some courtesy and patience.

All I can do is this…patience!?!?!?! A month long thread with no reply…patience!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA

Leamas.5803:

Seriously? Can making the vets better harm the economy

…the economy is out of control and really can’t get much worse…it is quickly becoming a pay2win game.

Aproposs Of Fire.4056:

And demanding that Anet answer you on how they manage their own game and you promising to teach the devs a “lesson” might not be the best strategy for you. “You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.”

A month long thread with no reply…

Leamas – First, yes I question whether giving Vets drops every time would harm the economy. I don’t know that it would and that’s why I asked the question.

On your accusation that the game is pay2win – I just have to ask; what in the cash shop can I buy to help me win the game? Or if you are not talking about the cash shop; what or from whom are you buying? (Sorry but the question begs asking.)

Finally, you don’t really want to know what I think about that month long thread… but you might want to consider the part of my quote above that I left in.

Edit: Actually, I’d like your opinion on what you would say is a reasonable amount of drops. Few have actually answered this question so I really don’t know what I should be expecting from game rewards:

Aproposs Of Fire.4056

Sub-total events: 14s 81c + 3 Skill points + 731 Karma + x Karma not found on wiki

Grand Total: 1g 50s 65c + 3 Skill points + 731plus Karma
Possible way-point fee savings not included.
Please also note that 1/4 of these sessions is in Level 15-18.

So let us know how far off is a Gold and a Half per average open-PvE session plus all other currencies available. What would be a reasonable amount of gold and other currencies for this combined low & high level areas session?

Someone today suggested that they clear 3g per hour running Cursed Shore events. I replied that I had heard others say that before but thought that they were exaggerating. I invited that poster (I believe it was Ath.2531) to tell us how he/she was doing it but they mysteriously have not replied back with a duplicatable method to achieve that.

Frankly, I would worry that hundreds of thousands of players making 3g per hour would cripple the in-game economy with runaway inflation. I seriously doubt that’s consistently possible.

Would you care to talk about what exactly your expectations are for in-game rewards?

Aproposs Of Fire.4056:

On your accusation that the game is pay2win – I just have to ask; what in the cash shop can I buy to help me win the game? Or if you are not talking about the cash shop; what or from whom are you buying? (Sorry but the question begs asking.)

Finally, you don’t really want to know what I think about that month long thread… but you might want to consider the part of my quote above that I left in.

The problem with the cash shop is that you can buy ANYTHING there because you can buy gems and convert them in to in-game gold that can then be spent in the trading post…this allows those selling in game to sell for as much they they see fit and hope someone will buy their wares through the cash shop. The recent post of Twilight is a prime example at 9500G. Now I realize this is designed as an open market and people will pay what they will pay, but it is damaging other non-dynamic game elements such as crafting.

Early on I bought some gems which I used to upgrade to the premium account account, 0-400 a couple crafts and buy some skitteny gear, then Lost Shores came and the Nov 15th patch promising more rares and exotics. I immediately noticed the lack of drops from the vet and champ karka as did others and I believe a bug was filed…one of the first detailing the issue. I believe the thread has since be either merged or removed.

Honey has been tried…several bugs on the topic have been created in the bug forum, the proper way to report and track such things, and to my know knowledge none have been replied to…the most recent, at least 3 weeks old, with many posts…no reply the last I checked.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Loot-Drop-Rate-Bug/page/4

On December 19th, I messaged forum support with a polite, but very direct, e-mail, apologizing for a desperate, out of place posting which had been moderated and deleted…no reply… How much more honey can we muster?

—snip—
I’m not disputing the fact that my posting below was off topic and it was done knowingly so. Myself and others have trying to raise an issue related to diminished loot drops. The main discussion thread as well as the bug related to the issue have both been ignored by ANet and lack any sort of official comment. The threads mentioned below have nearly 1500 posts and over 40000 views. This is not a small issue. Neither thread has had an official reply….40000 views and no official reply?

From your November 15th update notes:

“The drop rarity of Rare and Exotic weapons from certain places in the world (champions, veterans, and players in WvW) has been increased. Rares and Exotics should be much more likely to drop and every champion should be guaranteed to drop loot. This was to ensure that world loot drops were not a significantly worse way of acquiring rare and exotic items than crafting and running dungeons.”

Veterans still rarely drop anything and champions even less. I bet I can count on one hand the number of champs I’ve had drop loot. Open world drops have become painfully lacking and boss chests rarely drop anything better than a green. Odd this doesn’t seem to affect the fractals and doesn’t seem to affect everyone, but it does affect me as well as a lot of other people.

First, there is an obvious bug with champions/veterans drop rate and rares/exotics drop rate as what was stated in the update notes is clearly not working. Yet, no comment from Anet on the issue.

Secondly, open world drops are laughable. Whether it’s by design to stem bots or by error in the DR code/loot tables, it’s ridiculous, it has broken crafting by making T5-T6 mats too expensive and is ruining marketplace. Again, no comment from ANet…

What, is there a gag order or something regarding this? Was there business direction change to focus more pressure on players to use the gem store? This is the most common theory. It’s fine if that’s what it is, but players have to know!! For those of us who were around before Nov 15th, this is a totally different game. It changes it from a play-your-butt-off-to-get-good-items game to a no-matter-how-much-you-play-you’ll-never-be-able-to-afford-good-items-unless-you-use-the-gem-store kind of game. That’s not what I paid my $60 for…if I were looking for this model I’d be playing D3 or Shaila or any of the other f2p play games…at least then I’d know what I’m getting. Like many, I noticed it immediately during Lost Shore when champion/veteran karkas were dropping nothing.

Can you please please please forward this to someone who might be able to make some sort of comment on the “issue”. You are losing real players over this issue. Don’t go the way of D3. I love this game and that would make me very sad."

Aproposs Of Fire.4056:

Would you care to talk about what exactly your expectations are for in-game rewards?

Ideally, I’d like the pre-Nov 15th drop rate restored…I pulled 97 porous bones in an hour and and half last night….good for about 12 silver…but really?
*I’d like group/event drop rates balanced properly, so that if I’m running with a group or doing an event we can all expect proportionate rewards. Not how it is now where one person can be getting a pile of loadstones while another gets grey crap and porous bones.
I’d like vets and champs fixed as per the the Nov 15th patch release notes.
*I’d like boss chests fixed to pre-Nov 15th returns, so they actually, and consistently, return decent stuff. Hour and a half doing Melandru for greens at best…it’s NOT worth the effort. I’m not looking for karma gear and already have full exotics, I’m not leveling another character. I’m looking for stuff to sell or salvage…you don’t get ectos from greens!! I don’t remember the last time I got a something better than a green from a boss chest. I ran AC twice on explore a while back and received nothing better than greens. That’s NOT proportionate reward for the effort.
**As per the Nov 15th patch release notes, I’d like open world drops of rares and exotics to actually be increased.

Now we don’t know for sure whether it’s DR, loot tables, or just a straight up intentional nerf, but silence is poison and the longer they stay silent on the issue…well people draw their own conclusions.

Just to add in my observation:
Before the Nov 15th update I was getting the odd rare, in nearly every other play session. I.e. 3hr per day play session. Also, an exotic drop every once in awhile. Now since Nov 15th, I managed to find 3 rares, not in the dungeons though. Some boss drops, some open world mob drops (Orr).

However, the biggest difference I’ve seen is in the “Incandescent dust”/“Crystalline dust” drops. Incandescent dust, used to drop for me quiet frequently at least 3/4 per play session. Now, I’m lucky to receive 1 for every 2 play sessions. I don’t particularly farm these drops (I actively try to avoid farming these days,) I just run DEs which have alot of mobs (ok, Orr has alot of mobs.) But its as if the anti-farming code has kicked in map wide or at least on my account. Nowadays it seems that out of the 20 risen I kill, I get 1 dust, alot of porous skulls, maybe 1 item (blue usually) and mostly nothing.
The boss/vet fights were bad. I helped to take out the brood mother and got nothing for it. Took out a risen troll and got nothing for it. I really mean nothing, not even a white. Except for that 1 time when I got a rare.

Ath.2531:

Bartas.4908:

OK, so I had more free time today and nothing else to do than to grind/farm/wahtever.
I farmed Cursed Shore events for about 7 hours straight (plinx, penitent, shelter, temples, etc) and I must admit that I DID NOT FELT hit by DR for most of the time. I say most of the time because every 1 hour I was getting nothing but porous bones for like 20 mins. After that all went back to normal.
OL, normal is bit over the top but at least I am getting some greens and rares. Rares drop approximately 1 per hour (or 4 events) which is nice but not even close to the rate as it was before Lost Shores patch where I could expect at least 1 per event without any MF.

Now as I see economy, especially Charged Lodestones (because I need those), you could either try to farm them in the open with average 1 per 5-6h drop rate OR farm events and earn 4 to 7 gold in the same time. Both ways are extremely boring and cannot be considered any form of fun.

4 to 7 gold???Farming those events for 7 hours should have netted you at least 17-20g. Also, farming Charged lodestones should yield approximately 1 per hour based on my experience.

I’m not sure how you farm but whether i put MF gear on or not i make over 15G in 5 hours by farming those same events except plinx

so obviously there is something wrong or you have some magical way of doubleing your income. Believe me, I farmed in full party for Charged Lodestones for full 5 hours yesterday and during this time all I got was trash and 1 RARE and 5 greens. Whole day of farming, again, gave me maybe 8 to 9g including one exotic piece I sold for 1.2g and some extra crystalline dust sold for bit over 1g on TP. I don’t count dyes I was selling for few copper on TP.

Leamas – I appreciate you laying out what you have done previously to get answers. Yes, as I’ve said before, I agree that the Nov patch introduced a noticeable change in drops. I have also agreed that OP was unprofessional (to say the least).

I can’t explain why they haven’t given us an update on what’s going on. Thinking back, I do remember more than once where ANet has gone quiet on an issue for a long period of time. Every time, though, they finally came out with information about the issue – even when we didn’t necessarily like the answers.

I am running on the assumption that this is one of those times where they don’t have anything to say yet. (And to be extremely fair, there is the holiday season to make the delay seem even longer.) I understand that we might not necessarily like the answer but I also know that some of those times in the past when they came out with the explanation the public was like “Oh. Well. That’s cool, never mind then.”

I sincerely hope it’s the latter. But I’m realistic enough to remember what the global economy is turning into and that it might force ANet/NCSoft to make some policy decisions that won’t go over well with the players.

I also remember all of the times where it’s obvious that ANet is really focused on making a very cool game – for the gamers. Where they have quite-apparently bent over backwards to listen to what we want in a game. I absolutely don’t like everything they have done with the game but I’m not going to rehash that here. I like the game they have made, as I’m certain you do too, and I have fun playing it.

My approach, and I would plead with not only you Leamas but everyone reading this, is to wait for their resolution to the problem. You know as well as I that Arena Net is not rushed – they won’t do anything until “it’s ready”.

While OP was out-of-line in the way he started this thread (including possibly locking the other thread) I can sense his frustration (and by extension all the developers) about this issue. They did do a reset on the issue by starting this thread. They could have just locked the other one and let the issue die.

It’s maddening, but with ANet it’s always about “when it’s ready”. I hate that! And I said so on multiple occasions in the past five years. But I am pretty sure their history indicates that they will address this issue and do their best to make the solution as palatable as they can for us. BUT they will also do what they have to to make the business work out too.

That’s my opinion, fwiw. Flame away.

I really don’t understand this. They even play their own game, and I’m sure we do not need to provide them with data in order for them to see that the drops have been reduced. This is just prolonging the inevitable until they tell us something (that is of course if they ever do).

I don’t understand why is it so hard for you to just come out and admit it. Pretty soon it’s going to be 2 months since that god awful patch and we haven’t received a SINGLE word from you. I don’t know what you want to do with your game, but this silence is certainly not the way. The other thread had thousands of people say that they are seeing reduced drops, yet it is like we do not know what we are talking about.

I guess there are still tons of people buying gems and until they continue we will not receive a word on this. Sad, sad :/

I’m a little confused at the reply. There’s a long thread with about 40k views expressing concern about the drop rates being garbage and their response is to ask for metrics to see if it’s intended behavior. This is revealing a problem a lot of people have with the game, which is that drops are garbage and FOTM is really the only place you find items of value.

Who cares if it’s intended or not – the point is that the supply of many items is ridiculously low due to terrible drop rates, and that a skinner box design in guild wars 2 doesn’t work if it takes a huge number of hours to obtain an exotic.

It reeks of economic concerns interfering with the fundamental enjoyment of a game. Gold is worth something – however, a huge chunk of the playerbase doesn’t feel rewarded for the amount of time they put in and the skinner box ultimately fails. Congratulations?

It reminds me of a corporate law class I once took. Due to the control McDonalds has on its franchises, they can be held liable for the actions of those franchises. But it’s not the lawyers job to tell them to stop micromanging the food at each franchise. The business model of McDonalds is specifically to sell a uniform experience at each location – to eliminate the liability resulting would destroy the entire reason the business exists in the first place.

I get the feeling the same thing is happening with the economy and drop rate in Guild Wars 2.

Im confused and concerned about how they handle this case. Its not just telling me they don’t care about their customers, what is not a good sign to me, but even more concerning, they don’t care about their own product.
I noticed a very low droprate in game since 15nov., sometimes my costs for repairs and wp are even higher than my rewards. Im playing since headstart and the difference in lootdrops now compared to 2 months ago is huge. Not very motivating to play. I did send in an ingame bug report, because I honestly couldnt think of it not being a bug.
6 weeks later and with only this insulting respons as an answer, its enough. I’ll just stop playing untill they fix this “perceived” strange drop behavior.

I don’t play anymore!
Seriously! I wan’t to play but not this way! Just waiting here playing League of Legends, reading the forums daily until this get fixed. How much longer would it take? Come on!!!!!

I like to hunt and wander and explore, and sometimes I hunt in a specific area for ease, and when I do this I am “farming” I suppose. But no more so than the Orr zergs or running 20 fractals runs per day IMO. Anyway, before the November patch I made a living playing my way, and got some decent drops for my trouble…that is no longer the case. Coincidence? Bad luck? If so there are more than a few of us. Bottom line for me is before November patch I was happy playing my way and was moderately rewarded. I would like that to be the case again. And while I appreciate all of the “tips” from people who tell me to play their way, make gold, and stop complaining; that is not the point. You can play your way and make a good living. I no longer can since a patch. I am not alone in experiencing this.

Just did jormag event , got 5 blues and 2 greens , nothing useful at all …..

Aproposs Of Fire.4056:

Avitarus.1865:

Aproposs Of Fire.4056:

Apreposterous Fire.

Nah. His was portmanteau better.

-MyNameIsToTheLeft

@ToTheLeft – Ha, that was good… but was it intentional?

And to keep it on topic – the thread is currently concerned about poor and no drops from at least Champs/Named bosses if not also Vets. (Someone suggested that Vets might be okay, though I’d have to think about that. Would better Vet drops harm the economy?)

I would say yes because 2-3 bots can easily take down a vet, especially if they are a pet class.

Nike.2631

I’ll make you a deal-
You POST the expected base drop tables by rarity of standard, veteran, and champion mobs and I’ll tell you if that in any way confroms to my experience killing those things in verious loadouts of magic find.
I’m not doing your QA’s job for free without a little transparency from your side. Especially when they can do a database query at the touch of a button.

This needed to happen before they started asking us to relay data to them. I would find it incredibly difficult to believe that ANet doesn’t have this data compiled or have ready availability to compile it quickly. This thread’s creation reeks of an attempt at staving off a mass exodus.

Sythus.2396

I don’t understand why is it so hard for you to just come out and admit it. Pretty soon it’s going to be 2 months since that god awful patch and we haven’t received a SINGLE word from you. I don’t know what you want to do with your game, but this silence is certainly not the way. The other thread had thousands of people say that they are seeing reduced drops, yet it is like we do not know what we are talking about.
I guess there are still tons of people buying gems and until they continue we will not receive a word on this. Sad, sad :/

They can’t admit it; they won’t. This thread is an attempt to make it look as though they are investigating a matter which players have clearly documented (again, and again, and again), and ANet refuses to admit exists. How much “data” do they need? There are dozens of posts here; hundreds in the previous thread (which was locked why, again?), and there has not been a single official response since the initial posting of this thread. We are being ignored- again.

It’s been par for the course since release (see here: Ascended gear thread(s)). Why would we suddenly expect a change in the level of communication we received? Oh, right- because they acted like they cared for .02 seconds… which is clearly not the case.

Penalize bots not players

I will tell my saying, as it won’t really matter as ANet won’t read this, but here it is.
I’ve been playing this game for roughly 600 hours, only 40 hours being 1-80. Most of the time playing, I was farming for exotics, rares, ect. and all of this farming started in orr, and at frostgorge(Corrupts and Jormag). As I cant help it but to count what i receive. I can give you all the number of rares, BEFORE the November 16th patch to NOW.
Here it is.
When farming at level 80, Before the LS patch, I received about 2982 junk, 893 whites, 622 blues, 339 greens, 193 yellows, 2 exotics(290 hours of open world drops, no chests/map complete).
Now currently, 4892 junk, 486 whites, 225 blues, 140 greens, 72 yellows, and with exotics…Why bother?(remainder of hours left with no chests/map complete)
All the drops i placed was only armors/weapons, no crafting mats or bags.
If I were to add everything from what I had, from chests, dungeons, fractals, it is much greater. But fractals wasn’t there before the LS patch, now was it?
I can’t give anymore concrete data as, that is all I am really able to give out, I have to sit down and think about how much crafting mats I received as drops BEFORE and AFTER the lost shore patch. and I pay attention what I get as drops.

Alright I took the time to think on how much mats I have earned from drops, as well as all chests opened and loot received.

I have earned about 1973 bags(heavy only) 2891 Fine crafting mats, which majority are from Orr(bones, claws, dusts, venoms, and fangs), and some at frostgorge.

As far as Rare crafting mats, I got 50 cores and 192 Lodestones, aswell as 5 skulls.
that is the grand total, but as far as after the update, lets cut all of that in “One Third” and thats my total after the LS update.
As far from the chests, I have opened a total of 282 chests(majority being dragon, some being dungeon and alternate bosses) time to rally up the totals.
BEFORE LS I opened 194 chests. and this is what I got.
220 blues, 40 greens, 83 rares, 1 exotic.
After LS I opened 88 chests and this is what I got.
12 whites(wtf is with that?) 148 blues, 32 greens, 12 rares, 0 exotics.
The chest data is rather raw, and may need some adjustments later on, but the rest is pretty much bloody accurate of what I got of my most solid concrete data, in fact, its like a piece of titanium that has built a house, to me anywho.

That is all I got to say.

Companies only listen to numbers: Sales, earnings growth, annual revenues, stock prices, etc.

The only way to be listened is to affect these numbers. It can take some time but it will work.

Concerning the numbers published in this thread, they mean nothing. Our own personal experience since the launch of this game is the best parameter to compare with the actual game experience.

Its a personal decision to accept the current state of affairs, to keep complaining or to give up.

I expressed my opinion extensively on the closed thread.

Time is the best equalizer. We will see what happens.

Until then I wish you all a Happy New Year.

Best regards,

Red

RedBaron.6058:

Companies only listen to numbers: Sales, earnings growth, annual revenues, stock prices, etc.

The only way to be listened is to affect these numbers. It can take some time but it will work.

Concerning the numbers published in this thread, they mean nothing. Our own personal experience since the launch of this game is the best parameter to compare with the actual game experience.

Its a personal decision to accept the current state of affairs, to keep complaining or to give up.

I expressed my opinion extensively on the closed thread.

Time is the best equalizer. We will see what happens.

Until then I wish you all a Happy New Year.

Best regards,

Red

I already pretty much gave up. I play torchlight 2 as it is and haven’t played GW2 since the beginning of December.

Penitent path event farming (26.12)
Duration: 2×45 min (actually a bit more but I forgot to eat magic find booster initially)
Results: 7 yellows. All putrid essences.
Notes: I had 44% Magic Find from equipment, glazed pear tart, major sigil of luck, and banner. May have had 40% at some point since I might have used the 18% magic booster food instead of 22%

Penitent path event farming + Melandru event (27.12)
Duration: 45 min
Results: 2 yellows. Both putrid essences.
Notes: “Legendary” priest dropped a blue item, champion gorilla dropped a blue item. I had 44% Magic Find from equipment, glazed pear tart, major sigil of luck, and banner. May have had 40% at some point since I might have used the 18% magic booster food instead of 22%

There’s definitely a switch towards yellow items being replaced by similar level rare crafting mats – essences are pretty much worthless btw. Before the patch it was quite rare for a yellow crafting mat to drop. Now items hardly ever drop.

Also it feels like a nice kick to the head when a big event mob drops a blue item. The only reason I did the Melandru event was to test the drops as I was pretty sure it would result into blue drops. That’s what happens with dragon chests too. Generally majority or all of them blue with a few greens tossed in. All in all champion mobs are not worth the effort.

Also fyi: I farm with staff/wells necro so it’s pretty much impossible for me to miss any grouped enemies and not do significant enough damage to get a drop. Necros may not be very useful in PvE in general but they are good for “tagging” mobs for farming purposes.

sweatycool.9624:

I already pretty much gave up. I play torchlight 2 as it is and haven’t played GW2 since the beginning of December.

Likewise, except it’s “Darksiders 2” and “Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War 2” for me. I’ve played GW2 very little over the last couple weeks. Probably less than 3 hours. I keep watching this thread, the related bug thread, and any patch notes in the hopes of something being announced or resolved, but after following this issue since pretty much the Lost Shores weekend, I have little hope left.

To Stephanie how can we provide data when we had no reason to track it before 15/11? This comes across as a stalling tactic.

morrolan.9608:

To Stephanie how can we provide data when we had no reason to track it before 15/11? This comes across as a stalling tactic.

It is a stalling tactic. As I stated in another thread, it’s called “shifting the burden of proof”. ANet is asking players to provide “concrete data” to prove an issue exists, when in fact the burden is on them to prove that it doesn’t… especially when you consider that a previous thread had hundreds of replies, and was laden with the “concrete data” that ANet suddenly has an interest in.

It’s bullkitten. It’s a lame attempt to stop people from bailing ship, by saying “go in-game and spend hours researching this for us, and we’ll take the matter under consideration.” Pretty sure you should have your own access to the “concrete data” you are seeking. If not, check the thread that you locked. I’m sure you’ll find some of it there.

Concrete data (leaving aside any arguments about us not knowing we’d need to have taken data prior to 15th November).

I decided the other day that I would like to make a Berserker’s set of gear for a character.

Six of these items require 30 x Vial of Powerful Blood.

I went to Frostgorge Sound, in the very north of the zone is an ice shelf with some skelk on it.

Over several sessions, I spent nearly 8 hours there killing these skelk, and I obtained 21 x Vial of Powerful Blood. This equates to slightly more than 2.5 Vials every hour. If I wish to farm the rest, I would need to spend nearly another 4 hours just killing skelk, assuming my “luck” doesn’t change.

At that point, I gave up farming these items and obtained the remainder via alternate methods.

I think that 12 hours to farm enough materials for one component of an exotic set (I still need Gossamer, and Ectos, and spools of thread – the thread is simple, but I suspect the Gossamer and Ectos will take even longer to farm) is too much.

As I’ve said previously, I don’t think things should be that simple as to go out and be able to obtain the materials in a matter of minutes – but considering the game design should be “no grind”, the numbers above would indicate to me that there is a potential drop rate issue on some materials at least.

lol @ perceived. You guys are full of yourselves.

To Aproposs: I’m responding to your claim that we didn’t provide data, before you make the statement to me that this isn’t what you meant, perhaps you should go change your post, I just read it and that’s exactly the context used. Yes we already provided them with data and posts about what our conclusions were about these issues. the sheer amount of time it took to actually get someone to respond AND the number of posts on the previous thread shows that not only did they ignore this for far too long but they decided it wasn’t actual data. They made things worse in this thread by starting off claiming “it’s all in our head.” And yes they did ignore us, they filtered the AMA and someone had to sneak in the question about loot at the last minute to even get the answer about the investigation at all.

Which brings up the question: If all we’re going to hear from the dev community is that everything we are experiencing as players every single day in their game is not showing up on their data from their data collection software, then what is wrong with their data collection software? There’s pleanty of concrete data in that 1200 post thread about the issues why did it take an entire month after the AMA promises to investigate this only to be told it’s our imagination?

Farming run for 12.26.2012 2 hours:

killed 4 veterans 0 drops
3 greens
5 blues
30 body parts (all tier 5)
11 whites
16 greys
1 yellow

My final statement on this report will be this. What was wrong with their previous system of farming? Nothing. There was absolutely no need for a change. Would farming cause people to suddenly get ascended armor? no. Would it cause people to instantly be endowed with a legendary in 1 day? no. did it help people keep the economy balanced so that people couldn’t do what they are doing right now, which is gouge the prices for everything? yes. Did it prevent bots? no.

So one has to wonder, what exactly was the reason for this again?

Thinking about it…this bug reminds me of the WWW buff bug that got fixed whiles ago. Some people , not having transfered servers at all since release, got bugged that they didn’t have any www buffs running on them at all.

Maybe there’s a bug here, like DR not resetting for a set unlucky few? or Magic Find buff doing the opposite of what’s intended?

There IS something, cause it’s ridiculous how lopsided the two spectrums are.

I just came back to GW2 after a few days away for xmas to look for the one thread i actually follow – regarding the loot changes and found this and a lock:

’Hello,

As this thread has been answered by Stéphane, and your concerns adressed to the dedicated team, it is now locked.

Please post in the thread provided to help us gathering information about it.

I just want to say for the record Anet Mods leaving a thread for weeks with no reply, then asking the community to start a brand new thread that covers exactly what is ALREADY in the old thread is not ‘answering the question’ its classic wear them down, obfusicate and delay tactics and no to the poster who asked if we weer missing some cultural interpretation as Stephane is French – my BF is French and assured me its taking the kitten as much asany English persons reply could be.

Please explain why you cant actually read the old thread?

Actually meh dont bother you have done the impossible and thrown me at least temporarily back into the arms of WoW

Over 10k views, closing in on 300 replies and still not even a “We are looking into it”

I stopped farming for Charged Lodestones after 8 hours and 2 drops over a weeks time.

The detailed data being posted is worthless as it’s much to small of a sample. If everyone in this thread posted a long detailed list, it would still be too small of a sample, when compared to the entire population.

Anet knows there is a problem, they should be providing data or answers, even if general, not us.

WarMacheen.7124:

Over 10k views, closing in on 300 replies and still not even a “We are looking into it”
.
.
.
Anet knows there is a problem, they should be providing data or answers, even if general, not us.

Over 1200 posts and over 40000 views on the previous (And not the original) thread…There is no problem, it is by design. If it were a bug Anet would have replied over a month ago. They ALWAYS seem to respond to bug reports on the forum within a day or two…with the exception of this issue. The only answer is that it is by design and it seems they are of the opinion that if they keep delaying and obfuscating data people will just stop complaining. Of course they’re right, but not in the way they hope. People are simply leaving the game. Lion’s Arch always seems to have people as players funnel in to the fractals to get good drops. Starting areas and Orr always have people, though those in Orr don’t often want groups as they tend to be there to farm…middle areas are a ghost town.

I think it is pretty clear that something has changed with regards to drops. I played several hours WvW last night, pretty active battles most of the time, and only made 1G from loot + event rewards the whole night. Pretty sad reward for the effort that went in

And ive basically cut my play time to 15 min a day. Less when wintersday is over. I just log on now, do two jump puzzles and daily, then log off. I really came to this conclusion when i saw only 156 charged lodestones on the tp. If that doesnt tell anyone at anet anything is wrong, then nothing will.

I mean, i had fun at first, but now its just…a burden to kill things, to do big events when you know your reward is going to be crap.

Tigirius – Because of the characterization of player data made by the first post I have been conscious of that bias in my own thoughts and trying to keep it out of my comments. I apologize if this has happened.

As I said before, I have noticed not only the missing drops from Champs/Named bosses but also Vets too. I’ve also noticed a lower amount of rares.

But it’s not me who needs to be convinced. It would be so much easier if a dev (OP is customer service – not development) would let us know exactly what kind of data they need. I can understand why they would be hesitant to say what the key data points are.

As you saw, my response was to be as detailed as I could – down to what mobs dropped what loot and when and what the conditions where surrounding those drops.

So knowing what exactly the devs are looking for would go a long way to preventing such arduous record-keeping. Just thinking about having to go to those lengths (in a game that is supposed to be fun) has really angered a lot of players.

With that being said here is the run that I did today – again, I didn’t record each drop as it fell in real-time… that really is a lot of work.

L80 Guardian; Cursed Shore, right down the middle from north to south; Full MF; 12-27-12; 4:10pm to 5:07pm EST:

Grand total: Coins: 1g 21s 38c; Karma: 4365; Skill points: 0

I focused on gathering and killed mobs that were in the way. However, I did participate in dynamic events along the way but actively avoided the zerg. Since I didn’t record the exact drops or their timing you’re welcome to take this with a grain of salt. I explain the higher total as due to me getting a lot of Ori, Omnoms, Truffles and Ancient wood and a couple of the high level dust as well as a lot of Mithril and other T-5 mats. I received whites and blues but no greens, no rares and no exotics even though I killed many vets.

So did the whole escort Jofast and clear the camp events.

Drops were
2x 2 porous bones
1x large bone
1x ancient bone
1x giant gift
2x white equipment
1x blue equipment

So 8 drops from 50+ kills …. less than 1:6 drop:kill ratio which is quite normal since Nov15

Things to note:
1. I had not been “farming” in cursed shore for at least a week
2. I had just finished a gathering run with a different character where I only killed a couple of risen in cursed shore.
3. No magic find on the character I did the events with
4. I grenade spammed and tagged everything I could

Traverse the Marsh fractal – farming the 9 yellow mobs and 3 spiders with 50% MF from pirate runes and 15% from sigil of luck
10:07am – 10:37am
2 meat, 17 T5 Venom, 3 T6 Venom, 1 white, 3 blue, 2 green, 0 yellow, 0 vials of mist.
Break (still logged in)
10:40am – 11:10am
4 meat, 16 T5 Venom, 2 T6 Venom, 7 white, 2 blue, 3 green, 0 yellow, 0 vials of mist.
Break (still logged in)
2:06pm – 2:36pm
7 meat, 13 T5 Venom, 2 T6 Venom, 4 white, 1 blue, 0 green, 0 yellow, 0 vials of mist.

At 8 hours of using this farming route on two different characters (one with 65% MF and the other with 0%) I’ve gotten; 2 yellows, 25 blues, 8 greens and 0 vials.

A friend doping the same route with 0% MF for 8 (intermittent) hours has; 6 yellows, 56 blues, 17 greens and 7 vials.

I’d love to know how there is such a discrepancy in loot between us, as it goes well beyond anything RNG can explain away.

Coffeebot.3921:

I’d love to know how there is such a discrepancy in loot between us, as it goes well beyond anything RNG can explain away.

It has been discussed and proven time and time again that magic find gives you less loot, regardless of what people say it should do.

wildcode.5403:

Coffeebot.3921:

I’d love to know how there is such a discrepancy in loot between us, as it goes well beyond anything RNG can explain away.

It has been discussed and proven time and time again that magic find gives you less loot, regardless of what people say it should do.

Aye, but I’ve been doing 4 hours with MF and 4 hours without and gotten consistently less loot which is strange and possibly relevant.

Pretty much this:

Nymphetamine.2103:

Thanks for acknowledging the “perceived” decreased in drops.

If you have no evidence (yet) of this substantial droprate nerf, then the battle is already lost. Something as noticible as this, not being picked up, and being downplayed by words like “perceived” is alarming by itself. I get the feeling that you are not taking this seriously

Now,
Like a lot of posters mentioned: Please explain how we are supposed to give you concrete evidence with regards to the drop rate decrease, when it is only you that have the tools to analyses such data?

While you might feel the urge to disregard my question, as well as the anecdotal evidence provided by many other players, keep the following in mind:

We play this game for fun. Fiscal progression is part of said fun, and when you reach a point where making gold feels like work, it is not so much fun anymore… And you know: when something is not so much fun anymore, people tend to avoid that something.

I’ve reached a point where I can’t get myself to log on anymore. I fail to see the point in farming karma for an hour or 4 without any real reward.
Gadd only knows why people continue to kill the dragons when their loot is as atrocious as the are (i know: this is a separate issue)

This “over-regulation” / gestapo style DR mechanics and nerfs are sucking the life blood out of this game. There is not much blood left, and if you guys don’t act quickly, I’m afraid it will be too late.

Now: concrete data?
I dont have any yet, but I’ll start by pointing you in the right direction:

First and foremost, even before I’ll start to analyze the player data you are logging as well as the players will provide is this:
What changed on the 11/15 patch? The key to the mystery lies there.
I’d hazard a guess that you guys also take a look at the DR system, as it is highly possible that it is the culprit.

“perceived”
Right.

Dear CM, a single Plinx or Shelt/Pent before the 11/15 nerf would fill my inventory of 4 × 15 slot bags. And there would always be at least 1 rare in there, with exotics featuring in perhaps every 10th run.

So, why don’t you go try that now for a few hours with full MF gear? That’s gear, sigil, food, banner and guild buffs. Oh, and do this while in a full group.
Go, try it, and let us know how you do…

Is anything I’ve typed here “Concrete evidence”?
Obviously not.

If I knew I would have need of concrete evidence I would have taken screens after every event pre-11/15
But even that would have not been concrete enough, I would imagine…

From the 26th November AMA:

49. Magic find and just drops in general (with or without MF gear) seems to have been greatly altered to a minimum. Also, in the most recent patch it was noted that Veterans/Champions should always drop something at least, irregardless of what quality. Is the system working as you intended since the update or are there most definitely problems with it as it stands? Also, if it is ‘working as planned’ why the huge change in drops? Coupled with diminishing rewards it is hard to farm legitly and almost points the player to the Cash Shop instead of relying on self-reliance. Thanks in advance!

So yep you are right this is the question i have been likely dodging the most? The reason being is that it requires investigation. Vet and Champs should give good loot and there are a number of reports on perceived decrease in the frequency of drops. I will be discussing this in depth with the Production and Design team tomorrow and we will hopefully have more info soon

I guess we will have to wait another month for an answer….

papryk.6273:

I guess we will have to wait another month for an answer….

C’mon don’t complain about everything. Didn’t you see they responded after a month and even created a thread for us by closing original one which has more concrete data? Now they asked us for data with comparisons which many of us have been providing; and they need to come back from their holidays, have to read the forums and wonder who created this thread in the first place, then go through the posts, analyze the collected data, have an internal discussion and come to a conclusion on how to handle the situation, and if it doesn’t seem feasible find a couple of posts like this that might look offensive to them and close the thread and say the data provided over the last 2 months is just perceived and our eyes are deceiving us or our luck is just too bad.

So yes all of this would take a month or more to accomplish, be patient, how are they supposed to be working on more new content for January with all of these complaints?

/endsarcasm

I believe that it will all get fixed. But not until the next big update where there will probably be changes to a lot of things. Also, I think the use of the word perceive was probably in line with what was said in the AMA. I don’t agree with the asking for concrete data when it is impossible to do so unless there is a command we can input to get said data.

They have acknowledged over a month ago their was an issue.. so their should be a fix in the works somewhere. No point releasing the fix on its own tho if the update is going to affect everything anyways.

So I guess everyone will just have to go find something else to do ingame until Feb.

In game? Not necessarily

In this matter players are not able to deliver “concrete data”. They simply do not have the tools for it and any number given could be made up. I am not trying to imply something, but how would you know, Anet?

Thus it should be obvious, that asking for such data is a pointless undertaking. To be honest, it is not even about our or your numbers, it is about how your playerbase is feeling towards the drop rates. It is always about the feeling of the majority. You have to cater to your customers, or in the end the customers will hand you the bill instead.

@Natsu
You are correct. Any numbers we may give could be consider biased to say the least. Fact is that everyone is feeling that something is wrong with drops and anyone who levelled char to 80 BEFORE LS patch and tries to level up an alt is feeling the difference.
I am levelling up an alt right now and trying to just gear him up with drops alone. He is level 30 in lvl 12-20 gear…
Not to mention that before LS patch I had enough orbs to freely play with crafting exotics, now I struggle to get 10 to play with Mystic Clover recepie once every 3-4 days even if I do farm a lot.
N