Guild Wars 2

Aproposs Of Fire.4056:

Now as to the quote from GuildCast, it was accurate but it was a bit weaker than I imagined; so I offer this instead.

This is a video interview with Colin Johanson (ArenaNet GW2 Game Director – think movie director, I think) made after the Halloween event but before the Karka event. It is located: http://www.twitch.tv/mmorpgcom/b/337726366 I might have missed some things earlier in the video but here are some pretty relevant quotes from later in the video:

Time: 20:35
“The most important thing.. We want people to play wherever they want.. do the things they are excited about and feel like they get rewarded for it and that they can play with their friends wherever they are playing and that they can be rewarded for it. "

“Those will always be our goals as we build anything in GuildWars2.”

Time: 20:48
“So certainly we are evaluating PvP, WvW and PvE right now so that it is rewarding enough in each part of the game, it feels like there is enough stuff to do in each part of the game. And where we see that there isn’t, we’re currently adding a whole lot of more stuff for each of those parts and phases right now. We’re really.. focused on expanding those in every part of the the game right now.”

Time: 21:32
“Right now we’re focused on those ideas of what is rewarding in our game.. what additional things you want to go do at level 80.. what additional game types do you want to do.. what are the things that you and your friends can do everyday when you log in.”

Time: 23:23
“.. evaluating every part of the game.. trying to add.. new places to play with friends.. new challenges.. new places for rewards.. fans want a lot more to do in the game. What is stuff that we can add.. allows more stuff in game.”

Time: 26:00
“.. actively working on.. dungeon rewards.. looking at making them more fun to play.. make them something people will want to do even more in the future.”

Time: 26:20 (Interviewer asking about dungeons being over-nerfed..more time spent for less reward.)
“.. still working on rewards a little bit.. want to make sure everyone is happy with them.. [make sure] they are a good challenge.. [make sure] you get rewarded for the time you spend in them.”

Disclaimer: Please see the video and correct any transcription mistakes I might have made.

So this interview seems to be about the time that people are beginning to see the problems with rewards – drops & loot – I wonder if this was ANet’s response to that and it was largely missed?

If azurrei’s interpretation of that quote above from a couple days ago is accurate then it seems that they are still focused on fixing the game.

Comments?

Edit – The most important quote for me is:

Johanson.2394:

ensuring there are reasons to go to all the locations in the world we’ve already built

Because it has been my understanding the past couple weeks that people are limiting a lot of their time to dungeons and fractals because of the loot issue. I thought that this was ANet’s goal. Well, if I can read that quote this way, I’d say it’s not ANet’s purpose and they are working on making it viable to go everywhere again.

I recently saw one player with at least 3 different legendaries.

When I asked how he got them, he said “I spend my time wisely.”

I can’t even fathom possibly having that many legendaries at this point.

Granted, as he wasn’t so forthcoming about his methods… I would imagine he’s one of the people that manipulate the trading post. (As has been speculated that those players are the main ones posting all the legendaries currently.)

Why is it that people should be rewarded much more greatly by taking advantage of other players than by playing the game?

I mean, if people are supposed to be rewarded by “doing what they want to do” as Colin Johanson has stated, then why is ArenaNet letting people get far greater rewards than those of us actually playing the game (that can’t be bothered to keep constant track over what materials are going to increase in price from day-to-day)?

IMHO, by now, ANet should have responded back to this debacle. They should act with honour and respond back – even just towards their loyal fans.

I understand that there is the possibility that the moment they respond, players will jump all over their comment, and perhaps, turn it against them. However, any response a this stage will be more beneficial than negative – especially in the long term.

I am still having difficulties pinpointing when DR kicks in. Honestly, neither I or any other players should be using up their time to run “tests” with regards to this issue. We have given enough evidence that this issue needs addressing (ASAP) and it’s been way over a month since this issue first surfaced.

Please ANet, be the better man and do this the right way.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

IMHO, by now, ANet should have responded back to this debacle. They should act with honour and respond back – even just towards their loyal fans.

I understand that there is the possibility that the moment they respond, players will jump all over their comment, and perhaps, turn it against them. However, any response a this stage will be more beneficial than negative – especially in the long term.

I am still having difficulties pinpointing when DR kicks in. Honestly, neither I or any other players should be using up their time to run “tests” with regards to this issue. We have given enough evidence that this issue needs addressing (ASAP) and it’s been way over a month since this issue first surfaced.

Please ANet, be the better man and do this the right way.

The excuse that gets touted that their customers will pounce on them if they dare comment or commit to any stance or POV, or that catering to one thread of complaints will snowball into a mountain of reactionary threads demanding answers to a multitude of complaints is not valid in the slightest, given the standards of service they proclaim to aspire to, the market they have entered.
After all, wasn’t it Mike O’Brien that said they won’t be happy until they have become the new number one?
If the current number one has people like Greg Street in the kitten trenches every single day wading through the irate and the unsatisfied, then ArenaNet had best gird their loins and cease hiding behind flimsy excuses and speak up.

since they didn’t answer in month from OP i’m starting to think that they don’t want to.
Is too easy to ask us numbers while you never give us a single one.
Our job is to play and if we fell kind we can give a feedback.
It seems that someone there loves mistic forge rng put here x data so we’ll work it out and you have a 1/xtrilion chance to get back a answer.
As a valuable data i can say that loot drop rate for me is like your official answer drop rate. inexistent.
IMHO in a game of this kind drops are needed for a player to progress eficently through the storyline and on this i’ll tell you a story:
My gf recently lost her job, so since she has nothing to do all day, she bought a copy of gw2.
First: she has NEVER been playng videogame, definetly not an mmo.
Before even starting i gived her 4g because i knew that to get a smooth progression she whould have needed a bit more than simple drops.
i followed her very closely douring the process, and even with my help and a some gear from tp she was always completing maps under her level therefore getting almost useless rewards.
at level 70 she lost most of the money i gave her with 3 rare drops in 85 hour of gamplay never farming but playing to complete maps (she’s very categoric on that lol)

Said that you cannot even immagine the uge number of “bad words” i’ve heard coming out from a very polite girl’s mouth..

And her gaming backgrund is the most candid, less influenced, not whiners. she’s not a blizzard’s secret agent afaik.. no aims to get rich overnight no aims for 1st day legendary no aims to get OP and surround the world in flames.

Simply get around, finish maps of actual level but mostly 10 level under, and she would never be able to do that whithout a big lvl80 charr as bodyguard. and don’t forget that shine in the eyes all of us have when you find a yellow shinies, even if thinkig about it may be useless for our actual char!! (felling a bit skirrt!!).

This overwhelm any scientific method of investigation we are supposed to follow while PLAYING a GAME. My gf expirence says drops are not enough to actually enjoy the game full stop.

As for me i noticed that i get quite often a rare drop as soon as i get into a map then nothing for 1 hour then simply casual. i never farm i just roam and kill what comes to me if i like to. no special mf gear just what i was able to craft casually.

ONLY 1 exotc drop in 500h of gameplay and where? from the odd tixx chest? you joking (level 78 bersk amulet)?? even if they were 10 times more wasn’t enough!
The point that comes out from this thread is that you don’t have to fine-tune drop rate from 0,01 to 0,02.. simply add a x10 multiplier!!

Right now you’re gonna lose even some of the “nerd” component of customers, do you really think to catch from the pool of people who never played videogames?
which since you are not good a proportions i’ll tell you is the 99% of world population.

said that make a check on your worst copetitors forums, learn from others mistakes in order to improve yourself without even making the mistake!!
stop sending out one special event/map/dungeon every day and tune what you have, GET SOCIAL!!! Ths game has the possibility to become a real mass product but know what? itmust be mass-friedly!!
never nerf dungeons or pvp or wvw that content is for """"pro"""" players who wants it to be hard!
but drops are what make us act like skirrts!

What I’ve found recently is that if I’m partied with someone else and we’re farming in an area, the drops are more frequent (at times even better), for all of maybe a minute, two at best. Then it’s back to crap drops, if anything at all. For me, DR kicks in far too quickly because of an overzealous anti-botting/farming code.

I still fail to understand the silence they’ve adopted with this issue… they have more than enough evidence to work with, countless examples given (as concrete as you can get) — if it were someone else, ie. a regular forum poster not someone from Anet who started this thread then I’d say it’s borderline whinging about loot. But Anet, if you read this, please look at the facts…

• YOU started this thread
• YOU wanted the hard data and here it is
• YOU are the ones not communicating with us
• the onus is on YOU to find out what’s gone wrong and how, and code a solution for it ASAP.

I just had a PM on this forum from gold sellers. I’m not promoting this, and please read to the end before you report or infract this message, as it is relevant to the discussion.

The here are the costs that I received.
500G+30G=115Usd,2000G+200G=450Usd,4%-10% extra.delivery in 10min,Purchase now!

So, 530G for $115. That is about 1/5 of what you can get it through the gem store. At the time of this writing, you would need to buy 44000 (You only need 43268, but can only buy in blocks of 4000) gems to convert to this much gold. So, in Canada, that works out to $50/4000gems 11*4000=44000…11*50=$550 for the approximately same amount of gold. Which, incidentally is even more than 2200G from the same seller, at $450. I did report them, but at the cost of stuff in the TP, it’s no wonder people are resorting to gold sellers.

We still see lots of bots, who really don’t care if they’re pulling thousands of porous bones since they’re only farming money. 24 hours straight of bot farming, say of low level grawl will still result in more gold than most of us will make in a week of regular play.

I think this only proves the DR mechanic is ineffective at removing bots and hampering gold sellers and only hampers honest players.

This is straight by the numbers and is as about as “concrete data” as can be provided.

Minos.5168:

I recently saw one player with at least 3 different legendaries.

When I asked how he got them, he said “I spend my time wisely.”

I can’t even fathom possibly having that many legendaries at this point.

Granted, as he wasn’t so forthcoming about his methods… I would imagine he’s one of the people that manipulate the trading post. (As has been speculated that those players are the main ones posting all the legendaries currently.)

Why is it that people should be rewarded much more greatly by taking advantage of other players than by playing the game?

I mean, if people are supposed to be rewarded by “doing what they want to do” as Colin Johanson has stated, then why is ArenaNet letting people get far greater rewards than those of us actually playing the game (that can’t be bothered to keep constant track over what materials are going to increase in price from day-to-day)?

I’m OK with people playing the market to make money…as long as they do it honestly by following market trends and don’t use bots or other unsavory means to achieve it. I have a friend who makes decent profit buying/selling dyes. He follows the trends, buys them on the low and sells them on the high. I actually created a toon specifically for this purpose and all she does is stand in the trader level in Rata Sum. Then I discovered I don’t have the time or patience for it. It’s too much like work. I just want to play a game…not the stock market.

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

• YOU started this thread
• YOU wanted the hard data and here it is
• YOU are the ones not communicating with us
• the onus is on YOU to find out what’s gone wrong and how, and code a solution for it ASAP.

Interesting as this is, one thing really needs to be asked: Why do they NEED to ask the community what is going on? Its their game and they should have sufficient setup in the background to track all this statistically.

But, judging by some posts elsewhere about them not being able to reproduce problems/bugs on their test server, it might be because they have it setup differently than on the real servers with all the different players available to test?

Sumii.2845:

In a situation like this where you have such a noticeable outcry saying there is a problem, not because they don’t like it, but rather because something significantly changed and the company claims it didn’t – what needs to happen is close examination of the problem, finding the answer / solution, and implementing it. But also, during the entire process you must communicate effectively and clearly with your consumer to let them know you’re addressing the issue. If there’s a problem and the consumer is given no communication, as time goes on (especially now so) they will become disillusioned, believe you’re not doing anything to correct the issue, and move on / change to another company for their goods.

Having a business background, I can confirm everything you say about communication is the truth.

As a GW player for years, I can also confirm that ANet does not always operate with these guidelines. Now whether this is proper for a game company in general or not; I have to only say that I have seen this kind of thing in a lot of games.

Sumii.2845:

We all know this, its simple common sense. Where I have an issue with your post is your extreme ability to interpret anything whether related or not and twist it around to the vision you so desperately are hoping for and also in doing so making Anet look oh so much the better company. I bear no ill to you for wanting the game to be fixed, rather I’d love for it to be fixed so maybe I could check it out again and see if I can find what initially I enjoyed doing. But I think that dispersing your posts and presenting Anet as being competent in this matter, when they are especially not being so -

I’m sorry that you disagree with me. I have twisted nothing.

I have twisted nothing. Every ANet post that I have quoted directly addresses in-game rewards. You and some others will not see it; but it’s clear.

Also, if you will look at all my posts in this thread you will find my reasoning for being calm and patient. This “no direct communication” is something that is quintessentially ANet.

Most of the time when there is a long delay in addressing a thorny issue, ANet finally does address it and the community is mollified. I can think of one example right on the top of my head: The announcement that there will be no dedicated healers or tanks. Another example: The announcement of the cash shop (their answer on this one – when it finally came – wasn’t universally acceptable to everyone but well enough).

I have made no representations of ANet’s competence at all.

As to why they don’t post in this thread – I have already admitted that I don’t know the answer to that. I speculate that they don’t want to create an uproar with players “wanting it NAOW!”. But that is my speculation and I have presented it as such.

This also is a repeat of what I have posted earlier in the thread. Rather than having an issue with my current posts, perhaps if you would click my name and read all my posts in this thread to find the context and previous posts that my current posts rest upon.

And – I won’t have to keep posting the same thing all the time.

The other thing you commented on where I called it the way I saw it should probably be dropped as that post no longer exists. Edit: Err, I don’t mean to say that you should edit your post at all – just that I’m not going to discuss this specific topic further.

As for the fanboi stuff you can forget that. I have a history at other forums of drawing high level attention with my valid concerns with ANet. If ANet takes satisfaction in my objectivity (okay, you’ll almost certainly argue that point, but I would argue back) then that’s fine. My objectivity has also caused some small consternation in the ANet studios (and possibly in the NCSoft offices) in the past and I am fine with that also.

I am a gamer, who also happens to be in the IT field and who also happens to have some business exp — not even close to being a fanboi. There is a lot about GW2 I would like to see changed (much of it off-topic so we’ll skip that) – but I’m okay with the fact that it’s their game.

I don’t mean to say that this thread is dealing with “non-issues”… far from it. I just know how ANet works and I know that they will address this issue. I also know that the way they address it may tick me off a great deal. But I know enough to keep my cool and wait for it. Through the years I have learned that they (ANet) are sincere in trying to get it right (usually). If their solution(s) don’t get it right I can assure you, while I will still be professional, I will not hold back. However, I will never make silly allegations of impropriety where it’s not warranted.

Oh, great, I better stop now or I’ll never stop… { Much more could be said. }

Aproposs Of Fire.4056:

…I don’t mean to say that this thread is dealing with “non-issues”… far from it. I just know how ANet works and I know that they will address this issue. I also know that the way they address it may tick me off a great deal. But I know enough to keep my cool and wait for it. Through the years I have learned that they (ANet) are sincere in trying to get it right (usually)…

I’d have to agree with you in principal there. It may take a wretchedly long time to arrive, but ArenaNet certainly do get there in the end. Look at the reworks for the Ritualist, to take but one example from their past, who went from being a clunky, laborious sloth to a veritable powerhouse.
But the fundamental problem here is not their capability to repair.
The issue is that the reduction of open-world gain was not a game design decision, nor an error.
It was, and will remain, a financial one, and one that was not made by ArenaNet.

It seems for me that the deminishing returns does not reset ever. 2 1/2 weeks ago I went to try to farm some corrupted lodestones. A buddy told me he would get about 1 an hour. I received 1 the first day I was out for about 1 1/2 hours. I went back the next day and I got 1 on my 3rd kill. I stay out there for about 2 more hours and got none. I have since gone out 8 times any where from 1 to 2 hours at a time and have not received another lodestone. Also 3 of the times I had a buddy with me and they did not get a single lodestone either.

lynspottery.6529:

But, judging by some posts elsewhere about them not being able to reproduce problems/bugs on their test server, it might be because they have it setup differently than on the real servers with all the different players available to test?

The answer is right there. Classic case in point would be them not being able to reproduce the corrupted ice shield bug on the claw of jormag event… why is anyone’s guess, not even they know the answer to that one. Some intimately small differences with the setup of the test units and the live world most likely, but since they have this devout reluctance to even show their faces (on our server at least) then they’ll never know the true nature of what actually goes on and they’ll continue living in glorious test phases where nothing goes wrong.

Just on that point though, if they were to show up in the live world, adorned with Anet logo above the head during an event, imagine the mobbing that would occur… the amount of rage they’d be made to feel about stuff not working in the world they built. I’d actually challenge some of then to come farming with us after and then they can see FIRST-HAND what drops and what doesn’t, and when and where. So much for ‘perceived strange drop behaviour’ and test server/instance results… come play with us.

Minos.5168:

I mean, if people are supposed to be rewarded by “doing what they want to do” as Colin Johanson has stated, then why is ArenaNet letting people get far greater rewards than those of us actually playing the game (that can’t be bothered to keep constant track over what materials are going to increase in price from day-to-day)?

Players don’t get rewarded for doing what they want to do, except for maybe just playing the game. Everything beyond that has been made a tedious grind. Set a goal beyond getting your initial exotic set and it will take a grind because of all the anti-player mechanisms and nerfs anet have implemented. This is one of the most unrewarding games I’ve played and the statements from anet are completely contradictory to the reality of the game.

Aproposs Of Fire.4056:

I don’t mean to say that this thread is dealing with “non-issues”… far from it. I just know how ANet works and I know that they will address this issue. I also know that the way they address it may tick me off a great deal. But I know enough to keep my cool and wait for it. Through the years I have learned that they (ANet) are sincere in trying to get it right (usually). If their solution(s) don’t get it right I can assure you, while I will still be professional, I will not hold back. However, I will never make silly allegations of impropriety where it’s not warranted.

Oh, great, I better stop now or I’ll never stop… { Much more could be said :p }

I think many of the accusations, and I’m as guilty as the next guy, are more about venting and trying to extract some sort of official comment out of ANet. Silence turns to poison in situations such as this. When ignored, good faith requests for information turn to angry accusations that eventually try to “shame” out a response. This a fairly typical outcome to a situation such as this.The fact of the matter is that ANet is completely silent on the issue, for no good reason, and we simply don’t have enough information to make any sort of accusations.

On the other hand, Anet is asking us for “concrete data” without offering any sort of tools, or even some sort of data baseline about what we might be looking for. We don’t know how DR or the RNG or the loot tables are supposed to work so how can we supply reliable “concrete” information about something we don’t understand? This is just bad faith and reeks of a stalling tactic; feeling like an exercise in futility. Almost 2 months now with no official response…this is not only BAD customer service, it’s verging on unforgivable. Luckily for them, gamers tend to have a short memory.

puffintoast.6501:

Aproposs Of Fire.4056:

…I don’t mean to say that this thread is dealing with “non-issues”… far from it. I just know how ANet works and I know that they will address this issue. I also know that the way they address it may tick me off a great deal. But I know enough to keep my cool and wait for it. Through the years I have learned that they (ANet) are sincere in trying to get it right (usually)…

I’d have to agree with you in principal there. It may take a wretchedly long time to arrive, but ArenaNet certainly do get there in the end. Look at the reworks for the Ritualist, to take but one example from their past, who went from being a clunky, laborious sloth to a veritable powerhouse.
But the fundamental problem here is not their capability to repair.
The issue is that the reduction of open-world gain was not a game design decision, nor an error.
It was, and will remain, a financial one, and one that was not made by ArenaNet.

Whether that’s true or not – we’ll certainly know for sure after the Jan/Feb updates to the existing content.

Also, whether it’s true or not – at least it’s not as bad as another game I could mention where they squeeze the economy so tight that the players stress “playing eco” and count their every bullet literally. I doubt I can name the game, but it’s one that has won records (famously or infamously) for the most irl cash spent on in-game properties. That truly is a rich-man’s game. I cannot see GW2 ever getting that bad with drops and loot and if it does I won’t be back.

Leamas.5803:

Aproposs Of Fire.4056:

I don’t mean to say that this thread is dealing with “non-issues”… far from it. I just know how ANet works and I know that they will address this issue. I also know that the way they address it may tick me off a great deal. But I know enough to keep my cool and wait for it. Through the years I have learned that they (ANet) are sincere in trying to get it right (usually). If their solution(s) don’t get it right I can assure you, while I will still be professional, I will not hold back. However, I will never make silly allegations of impropriety where it’s not warranted.

Oh, great, I better stop now or I’ll never stop… { Much more could be said :p }

On the other hand, Anet is asking us for “concrete data” without offering any sort of tools, or even some sort of data baseline about what we might be looking for. We don’t know how DR or the RNG or the loot tables are supposed to work so how can we supply reliable “concrete” information about something we don’t understand? This is just bad faith and reeks of a stalling tactic; feeling like an exercise in futility. Almost 2 months now with no official response…this is not only BAD customer service, it’s verging on unforgivable. Luckily for them, gamers tend to have a short memory.

As you know, I have expressed… disappointment about the OP and my opinion has not changed on that. It could have been handled much better, IMHO.

Edit: Frankly, I would be gratified if they would just remove one word from the title of the thread. But that’s just me.

The sad part about all this is if Anet really offered value in their Gem Store to the players, they would not have a problem selling anything there. However, what they offer there is not of value to a majority of folks I play with. I personally do not purchase “things” from the Gem Store. To me the only “value” was to increase my bank and inventory space.

In relation to the crappy loot drop and the DR or whatever you want to call that mechanic, crimping the ability for the players to obtain wealth (even a modest one) in the game play has backfired on them. Personally, I am a very casual player. I have two characters to 80 and one at 51.

Since I enjoy playing just particular professions, I will use them to do things with my guild mates. But I refuse to grind for anything. I play in game for the social aspect more than anything else.

I am not in a hurry to get a legendary as I doubt I will be doing anything monumental to need it. I do not like the fractals and just tolerate other dungeons. I do not craft, therefore, I still have sufficient gold (although not much) to pick up a choice epic or rare piece of gear or weapon should I choose to.

I love the aspect of gaming where by I get rewarded with something worth the effort it took me to obtain it…not for trophy bones, trophy flowers, etc. I don’t farm as a rule, but I tend to harvest in my travels everything in my path.

I am hopeful all this DR or poor loot drop issue changes with the upcoming patches. I like shinnies and am as thrilled as a child whenever I get one I feel is worth my effort. But I digress, I will watch to see how things unfold in the next few months.

lynspottery.6529:

The sad part about all this is if Anet really offered value in their Gem Store to the players, they would not have a problem selling anything there. However, what they offer there is not of value to a majority of folks I play with. I personally do not purchase “things” from the Gem Store. To me the only “value” was to increase my bank and inventory space.

Well, this is a big part of why the cash shop isn’t completely acceptable to a lot of players. Some players fear that Pay-to-Win items will appear there and so ANet has to be very careful of what they offer. Some players don’t even like the boosts in the shop.

Reply @ Lyn below: I almost mentioned the skins as something I’d like to see expanded also. However, based on some things the devs have said, it’s not something they have scheduled. But I agree with you on variety – I might eventually get the skins there currently, but I would prefer a larger selection.

Aproposs Of Fire.4056:

lynspottery.6529:

The sad part about all this is if Anet really offered value in their Gem Store to the players, they would not have a problem selling anything there. However, what they offer there is not of value to a majority of folks I play with. I personally do not purchase “things” from the Gem Store. To me the only “value” was to increase my bank and inventory space.

Well, this is a big part of why the cash shop isn’t completely acceptable to a lot of players. Some players fear that Pay-to-Win items will appear there and so ANet has to be very careful of what they offer. Some players don’t even like the boosts in the shop.

I quite understand that aspect and accept that, but even the skins offered are hideous. If they offered a better selection I might be tempted, or if they offered a wider variety of what is there currently, I think that might help.

I agree that “pay-to-win” is not on my radar. I won’t play a game that does that as it is grossly unfair to the majority. But not offering a better variety of things that would appeal to more than just one type of player is pretty lame in my opinion.

lynspottery.6529:

I agree that “pay-to-win” is not on my radar. I won’t play a game that does that as it is grossly unfair to the majority. But not offering a better variety of things that would appeal to more than just one type of player is pretty lame in my opinion.

But the cash shop IS pay to win. There might be bugger all in the gem store that I might buy other that slot upgrades and MAYBE instant repair canisters, but, and that is a huge BUT, you can convert those gems in to in-game gold, at which point you can buy pretty much anything in the game…including legendary weapons, if you so choose the spend that kind of coin. Isn’t this essentially the definition of pay to win?

I perceive that I quit this broken bug infested gem store, I mean game. You cannot have my stuff, nothing dropped since 11/15

Grunties.6841:

I perceive that I quit this broken bug infested gem store, I mean game. You cannot have my stuff, nothing dropped since 11/15

What about your Porous Bones? Can I have those?
I am using them to construct a tower in honor of my favorite monetisation manager.

Leamas.5803:

But the cash shop IS pay to win. There might be bugger all in the gem store that I might buy other that slot upgrades and MAYBE instant repair canisters, but, and that is a huge BUT, you can convert those gems in to in-game gold, at which point you can buy pretty much anything in the game…including legendary weapons, if you so choose the spend that kind of coin. Isn’t this essentially the definition of pay to win?

No.

Pay to win is about obtaining an advantage over other players solely via the cash shop. Nothing in there at this stage gives a player an advantage over another player which isn’t also available via in game means.

This doesn’t mean the cash shop with RMT is a good thing though.

So I thought I re-read the OP’s post. Here are our anwsers (bolded).

Stephane Lo Presti.7258:

Hi,

We’ve seen reports from players questioning the randomness of the drop mechanisms in GW2 and in particular asking if it’s been changed recently. This is not the case and we don’t think that the randomness mechanism is misbehaving, but we’re running some data to be sure there isn’t anything unexpected going on. So far nothing shows anything suspicious but we’ll keep gathering data and analyzing it.

Well that about anwsers our questions. Nothing is wrong. Countless porous bones is a naturall occurrence. They do not need to respond back because everything is working as intended. What the kitten do we know about DR, right? Random drops equates to getting junk more often than not. Yep, it all makes sense now. They are right, we are wrong.

Case closed.

Leamas.5803:

lynspottery.6529:

I agree that “pay-to-win” is not on my radar. I won’t play a game that does that as it is grossly unfair to the majority. But not offering a better variety of things that would appeal to more than just one type of player is pretty lame in my opinion.

But the cash shop IS pay to win. There might be bugger all in the gem store that I might buy other that slot upgrades and MAYBE instant repair canisters, but, and that is a huge BUT, you can convert those gems in to in-game gold, at which point you can buy pretty much anything in the game…including legendary weapons, if you so choose the spend that kind of coin. Isn’t this essentially the definition of pay to win?

This is way off topic, but, I completely agree with this statement.

If your game is PvE, and your personal ‘win’ is some legendary skin (you chose to persue out of your own free will) or an exotic set you can pretty much buy it outright if your IRL pockets are deep enough. So, for players like me who work for a specific skin for several months this constitutes a pay to win scenario.

Think about it this way:
You can buy the game today, have a Level 80 character (craft levelled) with full exotic armor and a legendary within a few hours by buying everything with gold you traded for gems. Tell me that is not broken.

HEY ARENANET,

WOULD YOU LIKE TO COMMENT AT ALL?

Oreoz.2573:

HEY ARENANET,

WOULD YOU LIKE TO COMMENT AT ALL?

Anet: No kitten you

Death Reincarnated.3570:

So I thought I re-read the OP’s post. Here are our anwsers (bolded).

Stephane Lo Presti.7258:

Hi,

We’ve seen reports from players questioning the randomness of the drop mechanisms in GW2 and in particular asking if it’s been changed recently. This is not the case and we don’t think that the randomness mechanism is misbehaving, but we’re running some data to be sure there isn’t anything unexpected going on. So far nothing shows anything suspicious but we’ll keep gathering data and analyzing it.

Well that about anwsers our questions. Nothing is wrong. Countless porous bones is a naturall occurrence. They do not need to respond back because everything is working as intended. What the kitten do we know about DR, right? Random drops equates to getting junk more often than not. Yep, it all makes sense now. They are right, we are wrong.

Case closed.

Nope. Logic: we had better loot prior to november patches. 15 nov promised better loot (not even close). Conclusion: something went wrong.

I still think something went wrong earlier. In my opinion since the patch fixing unidentified dyes http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2012-11-05

About odd drop behavior……lets see…..
Spark farming
A basic mf gear setup with two mf daggers one of which has superior luck rune and pumpkin cookie buff.
Got about 3 inventories of items,1 lodestone and the rest useless junk but that was only for the very first hour and from there it went downhill for 3 days on a row no matter the area i was.
Lets start seeing the sideffects now.
For one everything that went to the forge didnt produce a rare,and we are talking for 5 inventories worth of greens.
Also guildmates reported that if no guild mf buff is on,they also dont see drops (we are talking about quality drops here,not the junk you pick from everywere).
And just to switch the field,last spark farming party i was on one member picked 7 lodestones another member picked 1 and the rest got nothing.
There were already speculations within the guild that some players are for some unknown reason haveing a high rate while others get nothing,and this doesnt help the general misery feeling.

grave of hearts.7830:

About odd drop behavior……lets see…..
Spark farming
A basic mf gear setup with two mf daggers one of which has superior luck rune and pumpkin cookie buff.
Got about 3 inventories of items,1 lodestone and the rest useless junk but that was only for the very first hour and from there it went downhill for 3 days on a row no matter the area i was.
Lets start seeing the sideffects now.
For one everything that went to the forge didnt produce a rare,and we are talking for 5 inventories worth of greens.
Also guildmates reported that if no guild mf buff is on,they also dont see drops (we are talking about quality drops here,not the junk you pick from everywere).
And just to switch the field,last spark farming party i was on one member picked 7 lodestones another member picked 1 and the rest got nothing.
There were already speculations within the guild that some players are for some unknown reason haveing a high rate while others get nothing,and this doesnt help the general misery feeling.

This.
There is a definite disparity between Friends and Guildies. I’m not taking hard and fast numbers, but i can tell you our daily runs that include the dragons and the orr zerg + doing dailies in Queensdale, i find my luck much higher that the people i run with. It really seems odd that the people doing the exact same stuff have such a large range of drop quality.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/colin-johanson-on-guild-wars-2-in-the-months-ahead/

To make playing in our open world worthwhile, we’ll make it rewarding enough for players to spend their time there across all levels. It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards.
.
.
.
Our goal will be to use our existing reward systems and build new ones that are fun and exciting that step away from the stale gear grind reward systems you see elsewhere. Later in 2013, we’ll begin to introduce more of these systems once we’ve finished rolling out the remaining ascended gear and infusions.

I’m not holding my breath. That said, I don’t particularly want new reward systems, more tokens, or anything else I have to grind content to get…

I just want the existing system fixed so it works consistently (No DR, or at least where DR doesn’t hit globally).

Reward should be prorated based on the difficulty of the content. Why should cliff bats consistently drop more stuff than any champs? …it doesn’t make sense.

I’d also like to see the reward system be more balanced. In other words, so this does not happen…one person in a group can get very lucky with the RNG and get many nice items while someone else in the same group, say they’re hit with DR or are just unlucky, can get squat. This is not balanced nor fair and is incredibly discouraging when it happens. I stopped doing boss events altogether because it’s just disheartening to see my blues and greens when so many are linking the nice rares and even exotics they got in to the chat window.

Down with DR!!! It’s a broken tool that never really achieved it’s stated purpose of getting rid of bots. I reported two more last night farming the same patch of grawl heading up to the Asura in Timberline Falls. DR ONLY affects real players. Why don’t you work on fixing exploits to prevent the bots from teleporting. This would be VASTLY more effective in hampering bots than DR and a good step forward that does not affect honest players. In fact it almost seems like they’re counting on DR these days…less maintenance of the bot.

You can also do gold monitoring to track when a player gets a huge influx of gold through the mail system. Immediately lock their account before they can do anything with the gold and make them justify where it came from and if they can’t, remove the gold and issue them a warning. Repeat offenders should be all-out banned. Do a big press release about it to let players know it’s coming and this will send a message that the gold sellers are BAD and use of their service breaks the rules and will not be tolerated. This hurts the gold sellers and the related bots as the gold sellers wither away. Again, it’s still not perfect and can be abused in other ways but, again is a good step forward and does not affect honest users.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/colin-johanson-on-guild-wars-2-in-the-months-ahead/

You see I hear him talking, but all I’m really hearing is ‘music’. There was nothing specifically mentioned about loot, only reward systems which is more PR-speak for ‘screw the current system you’ll find the new one more enticing’ and still there will be nothing done to fix this current loot system! It’s all very well to talk the talk, but you gotta walk the walk, and step one is by getting one of your minions to reply to us in this thread about what’s going on with the loot currently.

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/colin-johanson-on-guild-wars-2-in-the-months-ahead/

You see I hear him talking, but all I’m really hearing is ‘music’. There was nothing specifically mentioned about loot, only reward systems which is more PR-speak for ‘screw the current system you’ll find the new one more enticing’ and still there will be nothing done to fix this current loot system! It’s all very well to talk the talk, but you gotta walk the walk, and step one is by getting one of your minions to reply to us in this thread about what’s going on with the loot currently.

Glad to see a huge amount of smoke being blown, while this thread and the problem associated with it continues to be ignored. I stopped playing my 80 engineer because I got tired of worthless drops and hours of regret after trying to get anything worthwhile

WarMacheen.7124:

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/colin-johanson-on-guild-wars-2-in-the-months-ahead/

You see I hear him talking, but all I’m really hearing is ‘music’. There was nothing specifically mentioned about loot, only reward systems which is more PR-speak for ‘screw the current system you’ll find the new one more enticing’ and still there will be nothing done to fix this current loot system! It’s all very well to talk the talk, but you gotta walk the walk, and step one is by getting one of your minions to reply to us in this thread about what’s going on with the loot currently.

Glad to see a huge amount of smoke being blown, while this thread and the problem associated with it continues to be ignored. I stopped playing my 80 engineer because I got tired of worthless drops and hours of regret after trying to get anything worthwhile

I refuse to level a new toon for the same reason. I stick with my 80 necro and just do map completion, which I’m at 76% I think. I have the whole thing down to a system and can typically do an entire region in 2-4 hours…largely depending on how long the heart vendors take. Unless something changes, when I get map completion with my current toon, I suspect I’ll be done with the game.

I still play my level 80 engineer (flamethrower at DE events FTW) and am getting pretty decent loot borderline good loot, i got a lot of rares this weekend easily much more than usual plus several lodestones (2 charged off sparks in a little over an hour and 1 corrupted at jormag, one onyx not sure where just noticed it in my inventory).

To me it is clear that 1)vet/champ loot is broken, there can be no argument against the fact that the fix did not work. 2) some people have DR stuck on their accounts.

I can only offer my play style as hope it helps. i travel around the map a lot, do orr for 30minutes, do the frozen maw (usually get a level 80 rare there), kill the destoyer, kill jormag, kill any random champs i find, do the temples to open up the spark spawns, other random DE. Also i spend at least half my time in WvW. Maybe because i move around a lot and go in and out of WvW, my DR resets more often?

If DR wasnt such a mystery than we would know how to avoid/reset it.

Medazolam.3058:

If DR wasnt such a mystery than we would know how to avoid/reset it.

And that’s exactly what Anet wants to prevent. If we knew how to avoid/reset DR then botters would just build that into their code.

Hydra.8196:

Medazolam.3058:

If DR wasnt such a mystery than we would know how to avoid/reset it.

And that’s exactly what Anet wants to prevent. If we knew how to avoid/reset DR then botters would just build that into their code.

DR hasn’t stopped botters, only slowed them down a bit and severly hindered players

Hydra.8196:

Medazolam.3058:

If DR wasnt such a mystery than we would know how to avoid/reset it.

And that’s exactly what Anet wants to prevent. If we knew how to avoid/reset DR then GW2 might actually be fun.

Fixed that for you.

From “Colin Johanson on Guild Wars 2 in the Months Ahead”:
‘To make playing in our open world worthwhile, we’ll make it rewarding enough for players to spend their time there across all levels. It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards.
One of our focuses is expanding and leveraging our achievement system.’

So there’ll be the cheevo lottery…
Which is fine, I suppose, for another token grinding diversion. But it is certainly not a solution for the serious issue at hand.
No mention was made in this post of repairing open world reward in the simplest way possible: by rewarding players for the things they do in the open world, via the simplest mechanic available.
Useable/profitable loot from any action undertaken in the open world. Not a limited-scale achievement-based token accumulation process.
No mention either of altering the currently over-priced for income map traversal system, to encourage players to traverse the world and partake of the open maps more freely and continually.
No mention either of class-resuscitating bug-fixes, and quality of life changes, to encourage players to enjoy their class more in group events, or even soloing in the open maps.
Still, people seem excited about getting a very limited amount of new tokens to play another new lottery with soon™, so that’s something at least.
Here’s hoping the class gear boxes don’t require gem-bought keys to open…
Or did I just give Crystin an idea that slipped under her radar?
Uh-oh.

15-20 karka farm and a few skelk (3-4) and 1 drake
No mf buff for the first 5 looted bloods and karka shells,popped JUST a cookie (no mf on gear) and the rest of them automaticaly dropped only crab meat and spiral shells.
Got a party invite in between,got 3 potent bloods and from there went downhill again.
So nothing wrong here chaps move along,there is nothing wrong with the drop rate.
And nothing wrong with teleporting players farming nodes while wearing legendaries.
They are 1000% legit players that worked hard for what they own.

/Sarcasm off

Basicaly it turns out that if magic find works,it might be working only on dungeons.
I cant know that since i refuse to go into dungeons since i hated them because of gw1.
But for open world the momment you get any magic find the game marks you as a bot.
I could sit and put down the cold hard numbers from a full guild and the next one that is getting full soon,but i am afraid this thread was never about finding an error.
It looks like a bait thread to find out how much people have figgured out about the drop reduction.

I have deliberately been holding off upgrading armour and fighting in areas my current armour can sort of handle to see what upgrades I am really getting, and putting those upgrades into safe boxes. I started tracking at lvl32 when I spent half my characters money and bought myself a full set of lvl32 armour and weapons to match. I am currently at lvl48 and I’ve cleared 3 x lvl15-25 zones plus almost finished clearing 25-40 zone. What I have picked up that I can upgrade to is …

lvl36 strong swindler gloves
lvl38 strong swindler boots of infiltration
lvl43 hearty dagger
lvl41 strong swindler pauldrons
lvl45 honed speargun of earth

Through 16 levels I have only picked up 5 items I can upgrade to, only 5, not even a double up on any of the items. This clearly shows that levelling a character and upgrading them using drops alone is impossible. I have had this trouble with upgrading via drops ever since Nov15 patch. The characters I levelled prior to Nov15 all upgraded from drops as I levelled them and I did not use trading post to upgrade any of them.

Edit: started at lvl32, not 30, lvl30 was where I was at when I decided I needed to use TP to upgrade. All armour and primary weapons are at lvl32.

Another guild event tonight. Four of us, all level 80, running around in Malchor’s Leap and Straits of Devestation looking for orichalcum nodes and ancient wood nodes. Killing everything our path, constantly roaming, never staying in one spot.

This time I was rocking my pure MF warrior. All Explorers armor, all Opal jewelry, 5x Runes of Pirate, 1x Rune of Traveler, Peach Tarts. That’s +104 MF total.

Four of us, 90 minutes, and ZERO yellow drops for any of us. Not one single yellow.

I keep posting reports like this and they are the same every single time. Since Nov. 15 when you instituted the code that finally put a dent in the overland bot farming groups, the drop rate has gone through the toilet.

Really, now that Colin has not addressed this issue even obliquely in his big blog entry today, will someone PLEASE come here and say something about this situation? It’s terrible.

You wonder why Orr is empty? Because the return on time is TERRIBLE. It used to be fine before Nov 15. A group like mine, doing an event like this for 90 minutes, and we’d EACH walk away with 2-4 yellows guaranteed. Even that was stingy, but at least it made the time investment worth it.

I have almost 3 toons with a complete set of jatoro gear and yakkington’s gear and I can honestly say the magic find gear has almost absolutely no effect on drops unless I also eat an omno bar with it and that’s also with sigils of luck in my weapons and the only time I get a rare drop is right after my toon eats the ar and then it’s blues a few greensand mostly porous bones.
The only time I’ve gotten an exotic drop was when I was on my ele in a dungeon with tanking gear on using magic food.
The drops in this game are the worst in any mmo I have played.
I can say that this will hopefully be my only and last B2P game and once that new game comes out that has a sub I will be moving to it.
I have probably spent about (a lot more than a monthly sub) on this game including gem purchases which is more than I paid for a sub game without this DR or the insane amount of bots, bad loot and the “I love you” messages in my inbox.
There are so many wonderful things about this game but being penalized for playing it isn’t something I can continue to support.

Stephane Lo Presti.7258:

Hi,

We’ve seen reports from players questioning the randomness of the drop mechanisms in GW2 and in particular asking if it’s been changed recently. This is not the case and we don’t think that the randomness mechanism is misbehaving, but we’re running some data to be sure there isn’t anything unexpected going on. So far nothing shows anything suspicious but we’ll keep gathering data and analyzing it.

So we’ve created this thread so that players can share with us their concrete data about any perceived strange drop behavior they encounter. Please be as accurate as possible, reporting only concrete data that you’ve experienced first hand. Among the information we’re interested in: map where you played, creatures you fought that dropped items, recipes from the Mystic Forge that you used.

Thanks for your understanding and help!

I am sorry, but I just cannot understand why Anet cannot find out what is happening. That they have to post a “request for information” is totally ludicrous. If they are using their test server to see how things work out, just the fact that it is not identical to the live servers which includes large numbers of players from all over the globe, makes it obvious to me that they will NOT see the same trends we do.

The fact that they feel there is nothing wrong with the drop rates and the DR at this late date actually makes me question their sincerity. All this after they posted elsewhere that they were aware that something backfired on their patch to increase the drop rate, makes me doubt they are even serious about this problem.

I have given up trying to figure out why they can’t use their own tools behind the scenes to see the data and have to ask the players for it instead. That makes no sense.

Anyway, I do not play as often as I used to because of this problem. Not only that, but all the darned bugs that have been around since launch and those few that they have said they “fixed” but are still a problem, coupled with the the lack of clear communication from them, have actually made me step back from a game I loved to play to a game I may leave if improvements don’t happen.

I found a post that says:

“Items
There are two new major features added to items in this update. For more detailed information on these features and how they tie into the new Lost Shores content, check out this blog post!

1. Added new crafting materials as part of the Lost Shores update.

2. Crafted Halloween potions are no longer account bound.

3. The mighty Zommoros has slightly increased the drop rate on Legendary precursor weapons from the Mystic Forge from both Rares and Exotics.

4. The drop rarity of Rare and Exotic weapons from certain places in the world (champions, veterans, and players in WvW) has been increased. Rares and Exotics should be much more likely to drop and every champion should be guaranteed to drop loot. This was to ensure that world loot drops were not a significantly worse way of acquiring rare and exotic items than crafting and running dungeons.

5. The amount of loot that drops for downscaled players has been increased. You should now be able to receive level-equivalent loot until you are fighting at a downscaled level that is less than 2/3 of your actual level. You should also receive loot a greater percentage of the time as well as receiving a greater percentage of experience, gold, and karma. For level 80 characters, this means level 55+ areas will be able to drop level 80 gear and give about 75% or so of the other rewards. Previously, these areas would give level 77 gear at best and closer to 60% or so of your rewards."

Here is the link: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-November-15-2012/first#post808152

How about removing DR from the equation for a week. Watch how many players will come to this thread with this response →

Having DR in conjunctions with RNG is like a double edged sword.

ANet, how about some of your dev team play this game for a week? Then you will see what we mean by ‘perceived strange drop behavior’.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

How about removing DR from the equation for a week. Watch how many players will come to this thread with this response ->

Having DR in conjunctions with RNG is like a double edged sword.

ANet, how about some of your dev team play this game for a week? Then you will see what we mean by ‘perceived strange drop behavior’.

Gotta agree with this, DR just seems way too powerful. We all hate bots, but the current system punishes hardcore players too. I love the game, I would love to get something worthwhile from Champions. I just soloed one today for the first time on my new character at ~level 30. I was pretty excited until I got no loot.

I’m not fighting any champion again, until this system is fixed. It’s a waste of time.

Something is blatantly wrong with the drop rate, or it’s plain and simple, not rewarding enough to begin with. You cannot deny this, with this much of an outcry on the forums. It’s ridiculous, I’m ready for action. I’m tired of reading all these data entries and screenshots showing the flawed loot design. This is getting soooo tiresome.

I got on my Elementalist today, starting where I left off at level 28. I have all level 20 green gear. I ended my night at level 35, with a blue shirt that I could upgrade too, and 2 blue daggers to upgrade too. Also I believe a blue glove.

Since level 20 to 35, I have found four blue items to upgrade too, only because of their level requirement, I have found no greens to upgrade too at all. Just finding a bunch of vendor loot, and I’m lucky if I find something I can use.

Fix the loot system, it’s driving me away. I hate playing this game, I play because my friends play. If it weren’t for them, I’d leave immediately. I already have once, I came back to play with them. The actual game is great, the rewards are absolutely terrible and UNACCEPTABLE. Fix it.

Another day, another chance to respond to the issue.

or continue to ignore it

I’ve essentially given up. I play maybe an hour or two a week, but the game just feels entirely stale at this point. Knowing I’m broke, and that going out in open world cannot fix that is frustrating enough to drive me away from the game.

GG, ANet. Well played.

Hawkmoon.5849:

I’ve essentially given up. I play maybe an hour or two a week, but the game just feels entirely stale at this point. Knowing I’m broke, and that going out in open world cannot fix that is frustrating enough to drive me away from the game.

GG, ANet. Well played.

I hear ya!! I’m not broke essentially because I’ve been playing since well before the Nov 15th patch, I don’t play alts and tend to hoard every copper I get. That said, with travel and repairs, I’m certainly not getting any richer and as a casual player, even with normal amounts of game-play, the idea of pursuing a legendary with these drop rates is nothing less than idiotic (Anyone who is pursuing this goal, please take no offense, as I’m only referring to my own situation). I’m in the same boat, where I tend to only play a couple hours a week and have ONLY been working on map clearing and jumping puzzles. I tend to avoid DEs, often tagging only a mob or two to get the event participation count and moving on, and won’t even consider a champion unless it’s an event and then I typically drop a couple AOEs on it to get the event and leave. This is what this reward system has reduced me to, a hit-n-run specialist. The reward vs. time just isn’t there otherwise. I can easily take down a couple veterans at a time and can even solo the odd champion, not so easy with a necro, but simply the “sense of achievement” just isn’t enough to push me on.

Even daily rewards are getting painfully dull, and I typically don’t actively pursue it. I haven’t something other than a Mystic Coin, one Jug of Liquid Karma (4500k), 3 basic transmutation cubes (Useless at L80, which I have been since before Nov 15th) and some silver in ages. In recent times, say the last month or so, the only thing I remember getting other than the cubes is an instant BL vendor thing, which is essentially useless with drop levels as they are. It would be nice actual useful items dropped more consistently, such as instant repair canisters or boosts.

I continue to play a couple hours a week for one other reason, a much more functional reason…simply so I don’t forget the keystrokes and skills. I still hold a small amount of hope that they will fix this and would like to still be in game-play form when they do.

Map completion and jumping puzzles are the only things left still worth pursuing IMO.

So, when is the promised AMA is going to happen? The one Chris promised “after the hollidays”? I don’t know how long these hollidays are gonna last, but aren’t they over yet?