Guild Wars 2

SelenaDread.2814:

I fully understand if guilds at 5+ and slightly over are having difficulties, that is a problem that does need to be sorted.

Complaining thou that your guild is below the party of 5 people required to initiate it, and you cannot join in guild activities. That is practicaly saying I can no longer play Guild Wars 2 because I removed my video card.

Are you actually playing this game? It still requires only one person to create a guild.

Wildkitten.3872:

Djinn.9245:

PopeUrban.2578:

Conncept.7638:

That’s an interesting opinion considering that the game’s entire story is based around two guilds of five people or less.

This is a silly argument, but I’ll bite for fun.

Those guilds, once formed, are perfectly in line with anet’s definition of a guild. A group’s worth of people (5) or more.

In fact, the entire Destiny’s edge storyline is about how they failed because they were missing one member

Does Anet actually state this? What I saw was a group of people who blamed another person for their own failing. I didn’t see any actual proof that missing 1 person was the single reason they failed.

The whole storyline is about how they were stronger together than they were split up.

Yes, it was a story about people in general being stronger when they do things together. And that is true whether it is 2 people or 30. There was nothing in the story that suggested they needed a magical number of 5.

Kamara.4187:

I remember reading that “small guilds will be respected” when they were talking about the Hot guildhalls…

Now I’m thinking “wow if that wasn’t just like a campaign promise in the end.”

Quote: In the interview by Mike Foster with Mike O’Brien and Colin Johanson at the PAX South 2015 event, the following was asked:

We pressed ArenaNet for more information on guild halls — especially on how small guilds will fare compared to massive ones — but the studio didn’t spill. Smaller guilds are in the discussion, however. Johanson elaborated, “It is important to us that our guilds feel like they are all important in our world, and we’ll make sure they are treated respectfully.”

Please note: they did not say specifically that ‘Small Guilds’ would be treated respectfully but that ALL Guilds would be treated respectfully. Now granted the key word here is ‘respectfully’. A somewhat ambiguous choice of words but since that is all we have to go with.

Definition:The adverb respectfully describes the way you treat or interact with someone you hold in high regard, admire, or perhaps simply have been told to treat with politeness.

Synonyms for respectfully: attentively, politely, considerately, courteously, with due respect.

So with that said: I don’t think anyone can affirm that ANet has treated small guilds(defined by ANet as a 5 person minimum) disrespectfully or discourteously.

I do unfortunately think that they did not address the problem that, before the update you needed to run missions to advance your guild through Merits and now with HoT, you now need to run missions to advance your guild through Favor. Missions for small guilds are problematic at best, due to the shear lack of bodies.

Influence, which allowed for small guilds to at least gain some semblance of legitimacy by playing together outside the mission system, has been removed and replaced with ‘nothing comparable’, except the mission reward currency, Favor noted above.

In the 32 pages of the CDI – Guild Halls forum from over a year ago, it was made abundantly clear by the mass of small guild posts, which suggestions would make having a small guild in the expansion enjoyable. Granted there were tons of suggestions made but from my recollection most of the suggestions have not yet come to fruition.

Please note: ANet did say that there was specifically a Guild Team now and they will continue to produce content past the HoT release date; Sooooo maybe the cool stuff for us little guilds are yet to be released. This would make some sense to me, complete the stuff for the big boys first and once that is up and running THEN bring the stuff for us little guys online once everything is tested out.

Remember: there are more of us little guilds in the game than big guilds. (please don’t ask me for a source because I cannot produce one)

The battle for small guilds wages on.

Have faith, we have heard not a peep about Alliances yet!

Djinn.9245:

Wildkitten.3872:

Djinn.9245:

PopeUrban.2578:

Conncept.7638:

That’s an interesting opinion considering that the game’s entire story is based around two guilds of five people or less.

This is a silly argument, but I’ll bite for fun.

Those guilds, once formed, are perfectly in line with anet’s definition of a guild. A group’s worth of people (5) or more.

In fact, the entire Destiny’s edge storyline is about how they failed because they were missing one member

Does Anet actually state this? What I saw was a group of people who blamed another person for their own failing. I didn’t see any actual proof that missing 1 person was the single reason they failed.

The whole storyline is about how they were stronger together than they were split up.

Yes, it was a story about people in general being stronger when they do things together. And that is true whether it is 2 people or 30. There was nothing in the story that suggested they needed a magical number of 5.

But yet that number was actually 5 now wasn’kitten story wise it was actually greater than 5 as it takes the player character to reunite them and help them reach their goal.

this thread is going more off topic everytime i see it…

more complaining and very few constructive

It is getting off topic. @Yalora way to be optimistic and hopefully your right and the new Guild Team will support us smaller guilds.

KrewGorilla.6491:

It is getting off topic. @Yalora way to be optimistic and hopefully your right and the new Guild Team will support us smaller guilds.

Small guilds are being supported. This system actually encourages smaller and moderate size guilds and hurts the majority of large guilds as the majority of large guilds were formed so people could get through certain missions and events.

The problem is you refuse to see this. Even in your OP you talk about it being new about this requirement to do missions when it was the same the old way as well. Here is part of what you said…
“This can be a problem as many, if not all, of the guild missions require that a party of 3 minimum be required to gain favor which is in turn used to acquire and build up the guild hall.”

The guild missions haven’t changed. Well treks have, but they require FEWER places to go to. All the others are the same. Under the old system you had to have more than 3 or 4 people to do missions and build up your guilds truly important items.

The real issue is you are wanting to twist the definition of guild. It has always been assumed that a guild would be at least the size of a standard party to begin with in just about every game that has a guild with it being normally larger than a standard party size. GW2 has always encouraged guilds to be larger than 2 or 3 or 4 because much of the guild content requires groups larger than even the standard party size to complete. It is not new to HoT as you insinuate that it is.

Now did we lose access to things we could do before? Yes. Is this something unheard of? Unprecedented? Not at all. Every game, especially an online MMO, has had to revamp things to make improvements and start from scratch. But honestly, it isn’t that huge of a loss. Ok, so we can’t make the simple banners. Ok, that sucks, but it’s not world ending. And as I have stated before, a guild of even 3 or 4 could not earn influence through normal gameplay to train up a huge supply of banners to constantly throw them down. But even these banners are not locked. You can still go purchase them with commendations. And if you have commendations that means you had to have run guild missions with another guild. In other words, you had outside help from your primary guild. Guess what, you will need some outside help under the new system too.

Love them or loathe them, micro guilds have existed from the start.
Maybe it’s a solo guild.
Maybe it’s a husband/wife or bf/gf team (or bf/bf, gf/gf for that matter.)
Maybe it’s a family affair with only 3 or 4 members.
It doesn’t matter. Micro guilds are a real thing and will continue to be a real thing.

You can argue that so few people are not a guild.
You can hate on them like so many seem to do in other threads.
But why should it matter? They harm no-one but seem to taking a lot of flak right now.

And the reason they are so vocal is that the recent changes have removed some of the upgrades they worked so hard to unlock. This is true of all guilds but micro guilds feel the pain so much more, because they worked proportionally harder to get those upgrades.

Capturing a guild hall is a do-able thing by enlisting the help of others. But it seems pretty rough that after that they still have to graft away to earn back the stuff they already had a week ago.

So this an appeal to the masses to not be too hard on such guilds.
And an appeal to the devs to pencil in a bit of love for these guilds in future updates.
They are players too, just trying to play the way they choose.

TL;DR; Micro Guilds Need Love Too.

I fail to see how the new system removed anything. It changed the means of progression while leaving intact access to anything you already unlocked, and in the case of guild missions actually granted several things you didn’t unlock.

Any consumables you could build in the old system, you can still build in the new system by paying favor. You can’t build a bunch of banners and whatever without doing guild missions, and that is also true of the new system. Consumables have simply been made harder to come by across the board, for everyone.

Guild banks you had before are still available.

The only “hard lock” on the system for what you call “micro guilds” is the guild hall claim, a thing you only have to do one time. You can do this, as we did, by just teaming up with a few other guilds for one day. You literally only need four people to complete it, and you never have to do it ever again. From there micro guilds have the same options to progress at a slower rate than everyone.

In fact, the new system is actually better for such guilds as guild missions have been made easier to complete across the board now that they’re not all locked behind bounties, don’t cost anything to run, and are commonly full of other guilds doing them.

“Micro guilds” were not treated more unfairly. They can actually advance faster relative to huge guilds than before due to the caps on favor and aetherium, and more reliably complete guild missions since it costs nothing to fail and retry them now.

Wildkitten.3872:

The real issue is you are wanting to twist the definition of guild. It has always been assumed that a guild would be at least the size of a standard party to begin with in just about every game that has a guild with it being normally larger than a standard party size. GW2 has always encouraged guilds to be larger than 2 or 3 or 4 because much of the guild content requires groups larger than even the standard party size to complete. It is not new to HoT as you insinuate that it is.

So we both agree that GW2/HOT is not compatible for those families that just wanted to group and play together. The Problem is this needs to be pointed out before purchase.

Does not help that a single person who thinks small guilds are better off feels the need to repeat the same walls of text over and over to anyone that isn’t buying that reasoning.

PopeUrban.2578:

From there micro guilds have the same options to progress at a slower rate than everyone.

facepalm

Kamara.4187:

PopeUrban.2578:

From there micro guilds have the same options to progress at a slower rate than everyone.

facepalm

Elaborate. Did you somehow progress faster than everyone in the old system, or is it that you expected to progress at exactly the same pace as larger guilds?

Its a very cryptic response.

Kamara.4187:

Wildkitten.3872:

The real issue is you are wanting to twist the definition of guild. It has always been assumed that a guild would be at least the size of a standard party to begin with in just about every game that has a guild with it being normally larger than a standard party size. GW2 has always encouraged guilds to be larger than 2 or 3 or 4 because much of the guild content requires groups larger than even the standard party size to complete. It is not new to HoT as you insinuate that it is.

So we both agree that GW2/HOT is not compatible for those families that just wanted to group and play together. The Problem is this needs to be pointed out before purchase.

If by “family” you mean solo or 1 or 2 other people, no, but HoT didn’t change a thing. You still needed help to get anything made of importance before. And that still is never what was meant by the term guild in ANY game, not just GW2.

Common sense would dictate that playing a Massively MULTIPLAYER Online game would have some requirements to do some things with other people and not just be a single player game that required an internet connection.

However unlike other games you aren’t shut out of things. You can still get a guild hall with 2 or 3 people and while you won’t be able to run missions, just like you couldn’t before, with only 2 or 3 people, you can join another guild, as you’re allowed to be in 5 at once, to run missions with to get things like banners with commendations. Many other games would tell you you are just out of luck.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Does not help that a single person who thinks small guilds are better off feels the need to repeat the same walls of text over and over to anyone that isn’t buying that reasoning.

So be in a guild that’s too small to run guild missions. Nothing about HoT has changed that. What was required before to get anything of any importance is still required now.

Wildkitten.3872:

Kamara.4187:

Wildkitten.3872:

The real issue is you are wanting to twist the definition of guild. It has always been assumed that a guild would be at least the size of a standard party to begin with in just about every game that has a guild with it being normally larger than a standard party size. GW2 has always encouraged guilds to be larger than 2 or 3 or 4 because much of the guild content requires groups larger than even the standard party size to complete. It is not new to HoT as you insinuate that it is.

So we both agree that GW2/HOT is not compatible for those families that just wanted to group and play together. The Problem is this needs to be pointed out before purchase.

Common sense would dictate that playing a Massively MULTIPLAYER Online game would have some requirements to do some things with other people and not just be a single player game that required an internet connection.

Did you play GW1? Because it wasn’t that way.

Kamara.4187:

Wildkitten.3872:

Kamara.4187:

Wildkitten.3872:

The real issue is you are wanting to twist the definition of guild. It has always been assumed that a guild would be at least the size of a standard party to begin with in just about every game that has a guild with it being normally larger than a standard party size. GW2 has always encouraged guilds to be larger than 2 or 3 or 4 because much of the guild content requires groups larger than even the standard party size to complete. It is not new to HoT as you insinuate that it is.

So we both agree that GW2/HOT is not compatible for those families that just wanted to group and play together. The Problem is this needs to be pointed out before purchase.

Common sense would dictate that playing a Massively MULTIPLAYER Online game would have some requirements to do some things with other people and not just be a single player game that required an internet connection.

Did you play GW1? Because it wasn’t that way.

GW1 was also never marketed as an MMORPG. Arenanet specificlly used the term “CORPG” for “Cooperative/Competitive Online Role Playing Game”

In fact one of the reasons they stated for cancelling utopia and moving on to GW2 was that they wanted to make an MMORPG and that that sort of play was not compatible with the GW1 design.

Wildkitten.3872:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Does not help that a single person who thinks small guilds are better off feels the need to repeat the same walls of text over and over to anyone that isn’t buying that reasoning.

So be in a guild that’s too small to run guild missions. Nothing about HoT has changed that. What was required before to get anything of any importance is still required now.

As expected. Enjoy your crusade.

SelenaDread.2814:

Spook.5847:

Wildkitten.3872:

KrewGorilla.6491:

Wildkitten.3872:

You can get your guild hall with only 2 to 4 people.

Have you tried getting a guild hall with 2 to 4 people O_o? Ive done it with 4 people and ive also gotten another with 5 people. but 2 people….really? makes me wonder if u even know what your talking about

With 3 yes, and it could have been done with just 2.

Way to miss the point. A small guild of “low level” (ours got rated a 2) without HoT cannot use ANY of their stuff other than banks, because even the new Scribe skill is untrainable outside of Maguma. Now tell me how that’s not a deliberate shafting of the players? And we had 5.4K influence built up, but the minimum to trade for the new guild currency is 10K? Way to get a slap along with your shafting.

Thanks, Anet!

I actually think your missing the point of this thread. This thread is a discussion how small guilds with HoT are having a hard time participating in guild events, and building guild halls. There is already another thread in the forum regardsing the removal of guild functions for core players. I believe your point is more suited there.

Perhaps; but a reply to snark – wherever one may find it – is always appropriate. Besides, it’s obviously part of the big picture Anet has painted for controlling people and driving forced sales of HoT, as has been mentioned herein. Also, ripping out core functions of the guild system (regardless of particulars) is the same insofar as negative effects being felt.

Try not to be so narrow in your viewpoint.

PopeUrban.2578:

I fail to see how the new system removed anything. It changed the means of progression while leaving intact access to anything you already unlocked, and in the case of guild missions actually granted several things you didn’t unlock.

Any consumables you could build in the old system, you can still build in the new system by paying favor. You can’t build a bunch of banners and whatever without doing guild missions, and that is also true of the new system. Consumables have simply been made harder to come by across the board, for everyone.

Guild banks you had before are still available.

The only “hard lock” on the system for what you call “micro guilds” is the guild hall claim, a thing you only have to do one time. You can do this, as we did, by just teaming up with a few other guilds for one day. You literally only need four people to complete it, and you never have to do it ever again. From there micro guilds have the same options to progress at a slower rate than everyone.

In fact, the new system is actually better for such guilds as guild missions have been made easier to complete across the board now that they’re not all locked behind bounties, don’t cost anything to run, and are commonly full of other guilds doing them.

“Micro guilds” were not treated more unfairly. They can actually advance faster relative to huge guilds than before due to the caps on favor and aetherium, and more reliably complete guild missions since it costs nothing to fail and retry them now.

Small guilds cannot build anything they had access to before unless they buy HoT, get a hall, then train scribe.

Are we arguing that all size guilds’ advancements, no matter the size, should not be gated behind HoT achievements?

Or are we asking Anet to define what they believe a guild is and within that definition how many members constitute a guild?

I personally think 1 member constitutes a guild because it takes 1 member to make a guild. In other games you have to get the signature of 10 people to even create a guild charter. I am a member of a 1 man guild and I would be more than happy to be presented with solo activities that advanced my 1 man guild. I would not mind if they locked these behind HoT even tho I don’t have the expansion and if it is never sold over the counter at Walmart/GameStop etc I might never get HoT (matter of personal principle – I pay cashiers to have a job so they don’t come to my door bumming for money for college).

Seems to be just a whole lot of opinion here.
Just to clear up some confusion, a solo player could build a guild and raise it to the top levels of each category by earning enough influence. This was done rather easily by running multiple characters (all in the guild) thru a minimum of 5 events like Tequatl or The Maw. If you played since launch, you likely have multiple characters and plenty of time to amass a lot of influence.
Just the storage space alone was well worth the effort, but the other stuff was really helpful, easy to make and to use and everyone was happy to see it used. It was one of the best examples in the game of how player friendly it is, or was.
That’s all gone now in the core game.
Whatever your opinion of a guilds number or members should be is not pertinent to the simple fact that the core game took a big hit and that’s where we hope to get new players from.
I understand the need to make a buck, but I’m convinced it’s is a big mistake to make a game harder AND less friendly or helpful.

Drow.2081:

Are we arguing that all size guilds’ advancements, no matter the size, should not be gated behind HoT achievements?

Or are we asking Anet to define what they believe a guild is and within that definition how many members constitute a guild?

1, No

2, No and Anet already made it clear 5 or more players makes a guild and balanced guild halls around 10 active players.

We are simply asking for little easier for us to earn favor without going to extreme like running a race 15 times to complete a mission to get credit that someone keeps bringing up over and over in other threads. With favor caps and time gates in place should it really matter at all really? If micro/small guilds want to have a guild halls too etc.

PopeUrban.2578:

I fail to see how the new system removed anything. It changed the means of progression while leaving intact access to anything you already unlocked, and in the case of guild missions actually granted several things you didn’t unlock.

Any consumables you could build in the old system, you can still build in the new system by paying favor. You can’t build a bunch of banners and whatever without doing guild missions, and that is also true of the new system. Consumables have simply been made harder to come by across the board, for everyone.

Guild banks you had before are still available.

The only “hard lock” on the system for what you call “micro guilds” is the guild hall claim, a thing you only have to do one time. You can do this, as we did, by just teaming up with a few other guilds for one day. You literally only need four people to complete it, and you never have to do it ever again. From there micro guilds have the same options to progress at a slower rate than everyone.

In fact, the new system is actually better for such guilds as guild missions have been made easier to complete across the board now that they’re not all locked behind bounties, don’t cost anything to run, and are commonly full of other guilds doing them.

“Micro guilds” were not treated more unfairly. They can actually advance faster relative to huge guilds than before due to the caps on favor and aetherium, and more reliably complete guild missions since it costs nothing to fail and retry them now.

Just a couple of things.
No, it was possible to make banners without doing guild missions. Now you cant.
No, guild banks are now not available to new core game players. Where we hope to get new players from.

Personally I don’t think this has anything to do with the number of guild members and a lot to do with the cost of storage space in the core game. The number of members is suddenly just being used to justify that storage cost increase.

Indeed. If I could build banners as a micro guild before HoT, I should still be able to build banners. Using the old mechanic, I spent time and effort to do so, and that ability has been taken away.

Drow.2081:

Are we arguing that all size guilds’ advancements, no matter the size, should not be gated behind HoT achievements?

Or are we asking Anet to define what they believe a guild is and within that definition how many members constitute a guild?

I personally think 1 member constitutes a guild because it takes 1 member to make a guild. In other games you have to get the signature of 10 people to even create a guild charter. I am a member of a 1 man guild and I would be more than happy to be presented with solo activities that advanced my 1 man guild. I would not mind if they locked these behind HoT even tho I don’t have the expansion and if it is never sold over the counter at Walmart/GameStop etc I might never get HoT (matter of personal principle – I pay cashiers to have a job so they don’t come to my door bumming for money for college).

I agree with this. In fact, I just want access to the same things I had built before. If they allowed scribe trainers in LA, it would solve the problem so far as I am concerned (assuming we have some way to earn the new credits outside HoT).

Edit: And no; I couldn’t care less about having a guild hall.

Ideally, you want to be able to market features to new players to draw them in. Problem is, if Anet goes out of their way at all to cater to micro guilds, that’s not really something they can market to potential new customers. “Come play a guild solo or with only a couple friends.” It goes against one of their core design philosophies; the idea that players can group together and interact with each other in a meaningful way, with ease, and are encouraged to do so. Running a micro guild isn’t much of a cooperative experience.

Ultimately, I think the decisions concerning the future of guilds were branding/marketing. Their game is called Guild Wars 2 and they wanted to push that aspect of it.

That is my theory anyway. I have a 1-man guild that I created so people would stop trying to invite me to their guilds. Which, over time, turned into a guild with a bank and a few low level upgrades. I wish I could make a Guild Hall and do missions as one person, just for the extra content of it and the challenge to see what all I could build on my own.

But as the saying goes, if Dwayna’s Wishes were Centaurs, then Street Rats would ride.

Labjax.2465:

Ideally, you want to be able to market features to new players to draw them in. Problem is, if Anet goes out of their way at all to cater to micro guilds, that’s not really something they can market to potential new customers. “Come play a guild solo or with only a couple friends.” It goes against one of their core design philosophies; the idea that players can group together and interact with each other in a meaningful way, with ease, and are encouraged to do so. Running a micro guild isn’t much of a cooperative experience.

Ultimately, I think the decisions concerning the future of guilds were branding/marketing. Their game is called Guild Wars 2 and they wanted to push that aspect of it.

That is my theory anyway. I have a 1-man guild that I created so people would stop trying to invite me to their guilds. Which, over time, turned into a guild with a bank and a few low level upgrades. I wish I could make a Guild Hall and do missions as one person, just for the extra content of it and the challenge to see what all I could build on my own.

But as the saying goes, if Dwayna’s Wishes were Centaurs, then Street Rats would ride.

How is allowing scribe training in LA “catering” to anyone?

JediYoda.1275:

2, No and Anet already made it clear 5 or more players makes a guild and balanced guild halls around 10 active players. ….. snip….

Where is the quote from Anet on this?

You based this on recent actions that may be pliable if the player base contends it. And the players are opposed. Since Anet does listen to what the players want and they have not come out and said in stone not ever changing guild structure to favor smaller/single player guilds.

I have to disagree with one statement I see over and over: that GW2 is pro forcing group content.

I rather thought this game’s bragging rights was that it catered to ALL PLAYING STYLES. There is solo play in this game so there should also be solo guilds with solo guild content.

And I have to reiterate what other players have said. Before HoT we had more. Why did HoT take it away?

Labjax.2465:

Ideally, you want to be able to market features to new players to draw them in. Problem is, if Anet goes out of their way at all to cater to micro guilds, that’s not really something they can market to potential new customers. “Come play a guild solo or with only a couple friends.” It goes against one of their core design philosophies; the idea that players can group together and interact with each other in a meaningful way, with ease, and are encouraged to do so. Running a micro guild isn’t much of a cooperative experience.

.

Market to new players and shaft the players that have supported them for years and even shaft the new players that even bought the expansion makes no sense. Its about equality and accessibility for all the guilds and all guild halls regardless how many members from1 to 500 are favor capped and time gated so it shouldn’t be a huge deal as many are making it out to be with this so called “catering” to micro/small guilds argument.

Anet admitted to they are trying to force players to be more interactive and claim the old influence system didn’t do that. Anet shouldn’t force us to play their way, we tell them how we want to play and they really should do more on their part to welcome everyone not just shaft a part of their player base.

Drow.2081:

JediYoda.1275:

2, No and Anet already made it clear 5 or more players makes a guild and balanced guild halls around 10 active players. ….. snip….

Where is the quote from Anet on this?

You based this on recent actions that may be pliable if the player base contends it. And the players are opposed. Since Anet does listen to what the players want and they have not come out and said in stone not ever changing guild structure to favor smaller/single player guilds.

I have to disagree with one statement I see over and over: that GW2 is pro forcing group content.

I rather thought this game’s bragging rights was that it catered to ALL PLAYING STYLES. There is solo play in this game so there should also be solo guilds with solo guild content.

And I have to reiterate what other players have said. Before HoT we had more. Why did HoT take it away?

My post is based on info direct from Anet and what they have done not based off anything else.

Yes Anet is forcing pro grouping look at the HP’s in the new maps, 3 or more players for guild missions and they even admitted to it in blog post and live stream.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-halls-missions-for-all/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/rethinking-guilds/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/building-your-guild-hall/

Q: Guild has only 3 players, can we get a guild hall and get enough favor? ?Yes if you are really good players you can get a guild hall with less than 5 players. Less than 5 reduce the amount of guild missions you can run and the amount of favor you can earn.
?We are balancing most of the cost assuming 10 players
http://dulfy.net/2015/10/02/gw2-guild-week-day-4-livestream-qa/

Direct from the Q&A stream, Colin stated anet considers a guild as a group of 5+ players, and less than that “not even a group really”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEfKQ0adatA&list=PLDCvogxNKN3nyxCvzZLKShAQEzlSTOfmO&index=13

kaat.8237:

Indeed. If I could build banners as a micro guild before HoT, I should still be able to build banners. Using the old mechanic, I spent time and effort to do so, and that ability has been taken away.

Bingo!! Just another reason why HoT is not in my future.

and +1 to JediYoda above!!!

Labjax.2465:

…. snip ….. It goes against one of their core design philosophies; the idea that players can group together and interact with each other in a meaningful way, with ease, and are encouraged to do so. Running a micro guild isn’t much of a cooperative experience. …. snip …..

It is not the “core design” of this game to force solo/family orientated players to do anything they don’t want to do. Where are you coming up with this?

Do you truly think solo players are going to run wildly into the arms of large guilds now because they might miss out on some content? Gee I wonder if there is a reason why forcing people to do things against their will makes them not want to be around. After reading this I don’t think I’ll bother going back to my larger guilds. Since I know now it’s all about forcing me even when I’ve said “no.”

kitten!!! JediYoda dropping some knowledge!!!! Dayuuummmm!!!!!!!!!! Respect!

Kamara.4187:

Wildkitten.3872:

Kamara.4187:

Wildkitten.3872:

The real issue is you are wanting to twist the definition of guild. It has always been assumed that a guild would be at least the size of a standard party to begin with in just about every game that has a guild with it being normally larger than a standard party size. GW2 has always encouraged guilds to be larger than 2 or 3 or 4 because much of the guild content requires groups larger than even the standard party size to complete. It is not new to HoT as you insinuate that it is.

So we both agree that GW2/HOT is not compatible for those families that just wanted to group and play together. The Problem is this needs to be pointed out before purchase.

Common sense would dictate that playing a Massively MULTIPLAYER Online game would have some requirements to do some things with other people and not just be a single player game that required an internet connection.

Did you play GW1? Because it wasn’t that way.

GW1 was also a much simpler game. Don’t get me wrong, I loved it. I played from launch and still play to this day. But there were no crafting professions, no gathering. guilds were there just for gameplay purposes.

But also in a way you really needed 8 people at least to succeed for the point of the guild and the guild hall which was guild battles. Sure, you could go in with henchmen, but you certainly were never going to succeed.

Tumult.2578:

Seems to be just a whole lot of opinion here.
Just to clear up some confusion, a solo player could build a guild and raise it to the top levels of each category by earning enough influence. This was done rather easily by running multiple characters (all in the guild) thru a minimum of 5 events like Tequatl or The Maw. If you played since launch, you likely have multiple characters and plenty of time to amass a lot of influence.
Just the storage space alone was well worth the effort, but the other stuff was really helpful, easy to make and to use and everyone was happy to see it used. It was one of the best examples in the game of how player friendly it is, or was.
That’s all gone now in the core game.
Whatever your opinion of a guilds number or members should be is not pertinent to the simple fact that the core game took a big hit and that’s where we hope to get new players from.
I understand the need to make a buck, but I’m convinced it’s is a big mistake to make a game harder AND less friendly or helpful.

Yes, through a LOT of gameplay and a LOT of time, if you didn’t spend money buying influence, and one of the complaints about this is some people are claiming this creates a “paywall” with the new system. So if they don’t wish to pay now I am going to assume they didn’t pay then either.

My primary guild was a 2 person guild. We knew we would be limited. In time we did unlock all that could be. We played a lot, more than average. So I know for a fact that enough influence could not be earned to keep us fully stocked with all the simple XP and karma banners with the low percentages. Spending several hours just 2 or 3 people may get you enough influence to build a couple of banners, which would be good for just one hour of gameplay use. So I am not going to believe people who may try to claim that as a solo guild or a guild of 2 or 3 that there was enough influence being earned to train whatever item they wanted, for use whenever they wanted. Never gonna happen without spending a TON of gold on influence thus destroying the paywall argument.

But for our guild that we have about 8 people for, and all 8 haven’t been on, we have been able to turn in some mats, get some levels up for the guild hall, which we secured with just 5 people. We did a guild trek with only 3 that got us favor. A friend who is in our guild but has his own personal guild where only a couple of people rep constantly, we did a bounty for him, that secured enough favor to get his guild hall. he will be able to level it up just fine. Yes, it will be slower, he knows this fact. Yes, some missions he won’t be able to do. Some missions he will need some help on which he will get.

The point is NOTHING about this new system is locked out. So maybe you have to wait for a week where the guild trek is the mission to come up to get your favor. You can do that as a solo person. And yes, you may have to do that a lot and wait a lot longer to start upgrades, but the point is, it IS possible to do things under this new system that was not possible under the old.

@Wildkitten

Not quoting another wall of opinions.

For the obtuse, for the nth time, I have no interest in buying HoT, and therefore my chance to restore my small guild to what it had is firmly locked behind a pretty hefty pay wall.

Not an opinion. A fact.

But go ahead, repeat your argument about no pay walls and no lock outs. Again.

Add an argument about how it is good it is to be forced to purchase an expansion a person doesn’t want, to replace something they had already earned in Game.

Carry on.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

For the obtuse, for the nth time, I have no interest in buying HoT, and therefore my chance to restore my small guild to what it had is firmly locked behind a pretty hefty pay wall. Not an opinion. A fact.

Then that is your choice. And you call others obtuse yet you’re the one complaining that a game is going to include ALL of it’s content. Yes, your choice not to get all the content, no issue with that at all, but don’t expect to get everything. Welcome to the world of MMO’s. This seems to be your first experience.

But that wasn’t what this thread was about. It was about people who think they were cut off from doing things as a guild because they were small when that is not the case whatsoever. Had nothing to do about not buying the expansion.

I’ve played MMOs since 2003. You? EnB, Everquest, SWG, Everquest 2, WoW, LoTRo, AoC, Vanguard, SWToR, GW.

I have never seen a company, in any expansion, get away with removing previously earned core content features and placing them behind a new expansion pay wall. Not once.

I’ve purchased more expansions for EQ2 alone than Anet has produced in their history.

Search Results

ob·tuse
?b?t(y)o?os,äb?t(y)o?os/
adjective
adjective: obtuse
1.
annoyingly insensitive

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

I’ve played MMOs since 2003. You? EnB, Everquest, SWG, Everquest 2, WoW, LoTRo, AoC, Vanguard, SWToR, GW.

I have never seen a company, in any expansion, get away with removing previously earned core content features and placing them behind a new expansion pay wall. Not once.

I’ve purchased more expansions for EQ2 alone than Anet has produced in their history.

Search Results

ob·tuse
?b?t(y)o?os,äb?t(y)o?os/
adjective
adjective: obtuse
1.
annoyingly insensitive

If you say that then I question whether you ever truly played WoW.

And yes, you meet the definition quite nicely.

It amazes me on how many dumb things they’ve done in HoT that Blizzard and a few others already got burnt and learned from years before but hey, lets go ahead and do it anyway because we are the untouchable Anet! We can do no wrong!

I remember when Blizzard added in guild levels in Cata and most every one had level 25 unlocked (with some OP guild spells/talents) in or just over a month in but good luck if you were a small guild. My guild got to 25 pretty kitten fast but me and two other friends made a 3-man alt guild to see how fast we can casually level it to 25, year 1+ year later, lol. So glad that hot garbage got scrapped.

Spook.5847:

How is allowing scribe training in LA “catering” to anyone?

JediYoda.1275:

Market to new players and shaft the players that have supported them for years and even shaft the new players that even bought the expansion makes no sense. Its about equality and accessibility for all the guilds and all guild halls regardless how many members from1 to 500 are favor capped and time gated so it shouldn’t be a huge deal as many are making it out to be with this so called “catering” to micro/small guilds argument.

Anet admitted to they are trying to force players to be more interactive and claim the old influence system didn’t do that. Anet shouldn’t force us to play their way, we tell them how we want to play and they really should do more on their part to welcome everyone not just shaft a part of their player base.

Drow.2081:

It is not the “core design” of this game to force solo/family orientated players to do anything they don’t want to do. Where are you coming up with this?

Do you truly think solo players are going to run wildly into the arms of large guilds now because they might miss out on some content? Gee I wonder if there is a reason why forcing people to do things against their will makes them not want to be around. After reading this I don’t think I’ll bother going back to my larger guilds. Since I know now it’s all about forcing me even when I’ve said “no.”

Don’t shoot the guy theorizing Anet’s reasons. Sheesh. I’m on your side.

Drow, I don’t know where you got “force” from “encourage.” They don’t force anyone to do group events together, for example, but the open world is designed such that working together is not only fluid, but highly recommended.

I don’t like it anymore than you guys do, but if you look at it from their point of view, it makes a kind of sense.

And really, you guys don’t do any of us any favors when you use language like “force.” Force would be if you had to choose to join a fair-sized guild to join when you logged into the game. Force would be if the only content in the game was guild-based and you couldn’t do it unless you joined one.

Spook: I’m not sure what you’re asking.

PopeUrban.2578:

It changed the means of progression while leaving intact access to anything you already unlocked.

This is simply not true. Stuff you had access to last week is now locked behind a whole host of guild hall buildings.

I don’t get why people in big guilds want to hate on small guilds. They are just people too and it has absolutely zero effect on anyone else in the game.

Labjax.2465:

Don’t shoot the guy theorizing Anet’s reasons. Sheesh. I’m on your side.

To be fair he did ask for direct sources

I have 2 personal guilds – created the first out of boredom, the second because I don’t really like the guild’s name.
I have been mostly alone in both and used both guilds to +5 camps. I knew that I wouldn’t be able to do it alone anymore after HoT, so I asked some friends to help me with that (for one guild, I’m not that greedy). We’re all in several guilds and after seeing what we have to do to get where I want my guild to be I give up on it – I can’t ask my friends to do all of this for 2-5 guilds.
I don’t really know yet how all of it works, but it would be nice if we could at least create simple banners and +5 (only) camps with some easier guild missions. I don’t really need a guild hall, I don’t need an arena.

I remember all the whining about discrimination against big guilds at launch. Apparently there are guilds out there with 500+ members who are all best friends. With three people you don’t need a guild hall, everyone can join the same group and do home instances if they want a place to “hang out” (chat isn’t enough for that?).

I got a Guild Hall Mordrem item from Ultimate thing.

I’m a solo player in my own Guild.

Why I can’t use it and obtain Guild Hall for that purpose?

Anet kinda scammed me here.

I just wrote all this out and ran into some unknown error, so trying again.

I only have one issue with the new system.

Individuals in guilds of ANY size, have no way to meaningfully contribute. They MUST be in a group. (This might be a bit different when you get a hall, but I’m thinking favor is still required so it would still stand.)

Previously individuals were able to contribute by playing the game. Even if they played solo or with other people. This has been taken away. It doesn’t matter what I do for my guild, at least not at this stage, I cannot earn favor for my guild. It wouldn’t matter if the guild was 40 players, 2 players or 500 players. “I” as an individual cannot contribute favor. For players who get on at odd times, have restricted time limits or schedules, or simply aren’t good at playing with other players (yes there are solo players in guild for the social contact but not the group playing), there is NO way to contribute favor.

There should be a set of individual goals each week that a player can complete ON THEIR OWN, that earn small amounts of favor for their guild.

For example, lets say each week I can complete max 3 individual “Guild Initiatives.” There are 9 to select from 3 PvE, 3 PvP, and 3 WvW. This way, even if my guild is a PvP guild, I can still choose to contribute on an individual basis in whatever game format I feel most comfortable with.

Each Guild Initiative would give 5-10 favor and a small personal reward.

PvE could be things like Scout missions, Material hunting, and Making Alliances (involves currying the favor of NPC’s by completing a task for them).

PvP missions could be anything as specific as Stealth Practice (Deliver a Killing Blow while stealthed) or as broad as kill 5 different classes in X map. They could have a lot of fun with these.

WvW could have WvW versions of both the PvP and PvE Guild Initiatives and some of it’s own concerning capping, supply etc. You could even do things like Get 1 kill in Obsidian Sanctum using the floor traps.

This would give everyone a way to contribute on their on time, without making it too OP, because the weekly favor cap would still be in place.

There are solutions. But having it so that a single player can’t contribute on their own is a problem. Regardless of guild size.

As a member of a Mini-Guild (Level 4, PvE-focussed, 4 persons, only 2 usually active) I hope that Anet will rethink the changes concerning the guilds. I do not mind if it takes small guilds a long time to accomplish something (that’s the price you pay if you are a tiny guild ), but due to the “3 players minimum in general / Level 10 minimum (all?many?) at PvE-Missions” issues around the guild missions it is actually impossible for tiny guilds to expand. Different methods to accquire favor or making guild missions accessible to 2 players would be really helpful.

zaxziakohl.5243:

Previously individuals were able to contribute by playing the game. Even if they played solo or with other people. This has been taken away. It doesn’t matter what I do for my guild, at least not at this stage, I cannot earn favor for my guild. It wouldn’t matter if the guild was 40 players, 2 players or 500 players..

True. Solving this could maybe solve the problems of tiny guilds in earning favor as well.

aikatara.3462:

As a member of a Mini-Guild (Level 4, PvE-focussed, 4 persons, only 2 usually active) I hope that Anet will rethink the changes concerning the guilds. I do not mind if it takes small guilds a long time to accomplish something (that’s the price you pay if you are a tiny guild ), but due to the “3 players minimum in general / Level 10 minimum (all?many?) at PvE-Missions” issues around the guild missions it is actually impossible for tiny guilds to expand. Different methods to accquire favor or making guild missions accessible to 2 players would be really helpful.

This describes my situation well.
My crew and I have been playing since beta of GW2, been in and out of big and small guilds throughout the years and just 7 months ago (my crew) decided the drama, lack of belonging, and failed leadership of all the previous guilds wasn’t worth it. So we started a small guild that includes my RL friends and a few followers that we’ve picked up throughout our travels.

Our roster totals 7 members but it is difficult at any point in time to find more than 2 of us on simultaneously. While we are scheduled to all rendezvous one night to do a mission or two, it would be nice if the 3 player minimum was moved down to 2 so we could have more adhoc progression for the guild. We are all adults with jobs and families, so it is difficult to plan even 1 night a week for 5+ of us to be on as the same time.

I know it is going to take more work/longer for a smaller guild to accomplish progress, we relish the thought of this. I am just slightly bummed the restrictions in place are setting us back more than I expected.

My guild had 8 players, 4 from NA and 4 from SEA. 3 quit over time, now there is almost never 3 people from the same time zone online. Since it takes 3 players minimum for all the guild missions to complete, and since favor is only earned through guild missions, the guild has been brought to a full halt.