Guild Wars 2

remove the AOE cap, and WWW / open world zerging is fixed.

add mobs cleaves and PVE stacking is fixed.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

“Doing so makes it easy to abuse boon stacking, heals, combo fields " Support mechanics are abused when they are used as they are intended? what?

Used as intended? So ANet’s initial idea was to have everyone stand in a corner for the entire fight duration, letting monsters get free hits on the group while they faceroll combo fields, heals and all sorts of broken spells in those encounters? (ex: whirlwind type of attacks, dark combo fields for perma blinds).

If that was the “used as intended” design philosophy then I regret buying this game.

It never stops amazing me how some people think they can force their narrow view of how game play should function on everyone.

Stacking in a corner has been a valid combat strategy in MMO’s since the dawn of time. Smart use of your surroundings in combat has allways been a huge part of combat.

It’s also clear you have no idea about support functions in GW2.

Razor.6392:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

“Doing so makes it easy to abuse boon stacking, heals, combo fields " Support mechanics are abused when they are used as they are intended? what?

Used as intended? So ANet’s initial idea was to have everyone stand in a corner for the entire fight duration, letting monsters get free hits on the group while they faceroll combo fields, heals and all sorts of broken spells in those encounters? (ex: whirlwind type of attacks).

If that was the “used as intended” design philosophy then I regret buying this game.

You said boon stacking, and combo fields. These are things that are the base of support mechanics in the game. Knowing how to stack boons and such takes actual thought and cooperation (no light fields under my fire!). Combo fields being blasted and whirled and all of that is intended for group play. Stacking (and dodging/evade) are apart of that intention. Glitch ing bosses is not, but using terrain, LOSing and such really is. It was in gw1 and it is prevalent In gw2 because it is intended.

Some people like Zerg and Stacking. This is partially why so much people are doing it.

Stacking : You want to do the best you can, making you rotation the best you can, bring the right utilities and build to max your DPS to bring that boss down. Not everybody is able to stack for everything, you need to be able to control you camera and dodge at the right moment.

Zerg : Mindless Zerg is not that great as a gameplay, its true at least in WvW. Guild Zerg on the other hand is freaking awesome. Time you skills with your teammates, follow your commander in the middle of an enemy zerg twice or triple your size and still winning. I had some of the best time in the game during those. In PvE it nice to have a lot of people doing an event with you. I have no problem with that at all. I usually talk to people around me, tag up to organize if there is nobody to do it. Zerging is not the problem in PvE, its poorly designed events. Tequalt Zerg is really nice and need coordination with the commander, the Wurm is the same things and the Marionnette divide the zerg completly. But on the other end you have the usually World Boss that don’t really need and gameplay at all, some are them are just boring, but that the same thing that you are 5 or 50, the event is bad, not the zerging of it.

Since these threads occur so often, I hope arenanet realizes this is an issue and addresses it.

On the other hand, I don’t think your proposed changes are adequate. They bring problems:
Giving boons when stacking is going to punish front-line soldiers. It’s also going to punish players like me whose technique as melee tank is to draw multiple enemies and kill them slowly in AoE.
Giving bosses pbaoe certainly is a solution, but that much seems a bit extreme and forces ranged only. Once again, ranged only punishes soldier classes.

A better approach would be to merge your two suggestions into the single “mob attacks behave just like player attack” That is, a sword slash hits everyone in the location. And just like that stacking isn’t a good idea anymore.

As for WvW, I believe the AoE is limited to 5 players for performance issues because of how damage and conditions are calculated.
Boosting outmanned like that is simply disproportionate.
How to fix this?
Perhaps the most easy solution would be to simply change the reward so it gives more to single players but it decreases exponentially to the amount of players.
That will DEFINITELY solve this “karma train” mentality.
If the problem persist, just introduce an elite to every class which takes really long to channel and does a fixed IMMENSE guaranteed critical damage with no limit, but gets interrupted when hit.

This way 5 organized players should be able to wipe a zerg alone. Since it’s a beefed up crit, it wouldn’t deal so much damage against structures.

My suggestion is to introduce either body-block or to remove (or decrease max range) aoe buff spells. Or both.

Razor.6392:

Fixes:
1. Make enemy npcs stack boons by default when they are at 150 range from each other or lower. (Might, Retaliation and Protection every 2 seconds)

So guardian GS#5 gives enemies boons now. Brilliant.

2. In the case of isolated of bosses, give them potent point-blank aoe’s to ALL of them. I’m talking about 5k dps at the very least if you choose to stand in their pbaoe.

That means you cannot melee bosses and you are forced to pew pew from range.

You have an ironic signature when you consider what you propose.

zMajc.4659:

It never stops amazing me how some people think they can force their narrow view of how game play should function on everyone.

Stacking in a corner has been a valid combat strategy in MMO’s since the dawn of time. Smart use of your surroundings in combat has allways been a huge part of combat.

It’s also clear you have no idea about support functions in GW2.

I never said they weren’t, read properly please.

I said they were skill-less strategy that reduced any strategy and game knowledge to baby levels of understanding.

If that’s a good and satisfying design / playstyle for you then I don’t even know what to say.

Whats the problem with stacking.
You just stand on the same spot instead of standing spread out or yet better run around in pintless circles like headless chickens.
Geez, some people seem to be very envy of people making good gold with proper speed clearing.

If you don’t like stacking in pve, run in or otherwise create a group which doesn’t stack.

If you don’t like fields, combos and heals being used well, stand just outside of them.

If you don’t like zergs in WvW, then roam or run in a small GvG team.

There you go, problem solved.

Fenrir, reading your post I’m inspired to join a thread which discusses class balance with valid points and good formatting and write “If you think this class is bad, don’t play it. If you think this class is too good, don’t play against it”.

Kibazuka.1390:

Whats the problem with stacking.
You just stand on the same spot instead of standing spread out or yet better run around in pintless circles like headless chickens.
Geez, some people seem to be very envy of people making good gold with proper speed clearing.

There’s so many braindead speed-clearing bads in this thread it’s astounding.

God forbid you actually play the game the way you’re supposed to. And in case this paints me as a casual, speed-clearing hater I’ll go on ahead and say that you’re wrong. All I dislike is simply the playstyle that everyone is undertaking when doing pve.

I play from headstart, back then it was better. Now everyone yells “STACK!!”, as an evident sign of their lack of braincells.

I like a lot the idea of pve cleaving attacks and wvw rewards (WXP, gold, karma) being split even more (or boosted for fewer players). They’re better than mine and I’m not afraid to admit it.

Just recognize, please, that it doesn’t make sense from a logical stand point to have a group of 5 brave warriors stacking in 1 spot killing everything. I’m not a lore guy or a roleplayer, but it still irks me to see how the universally accepted strat is to mindlessly stack.

Razor, I just want to say that since you know how the game was intended to be played (thus you must be a dev) I’m sorry for ever doubting you.

Also: poor Spartans in 300…. They weren’t living life as it was intended.

I wonder how many of these people saying that Stacking and Zerging is always braindead, mindless, no skill, auto-attack only, had actually done it the right way.

Ya of course you can stack without knowing how like a braindead. And you know what? These people will die. Not because they are bad player, that happen to me and to pretty much all of my guildmate. One of them was screaming at me some time when i ask to stack. Then i understood that on my guardian i always had vigor and it was easy for me, not for them. So we figure out ways to all be able to stack. Thief (the one screaming at me) switch its weapons and figure out a rotation to evade at the right moment, the warrior figure out how to use this GS skill 3, the elementalist changed her build and use more skills, etc. Now how is that braindead? If you have no fun in it you can do it your way, while other play how they want. And if you are saying that only because you can’t stack in full DPS build, then i sorry for you.

That’s precisely the issue.
STACK or kick.
LFG warrior only 6000+AP or kick
EVERYONE on commander.

Tactical planning? Multitasking?
The mixer boss in AC? AoE poison rings from spider? YEAH STACK. OR KICK.

What’s the point of defending a location? It’s not like anyone will come attack it because they’re in the choochoo-karma-train.
And it’s not like you’re going to defend it when the choochoo arrives and just DPSs the door down.

I guess the point is pretty clear, the game would be a lot more interesting if there were a few players sieging a location against a few other players and asking for reinforcements contrasted to two choo-choo trains consisting of people frying their #1 key mindlessly following a commander which idiotically goes from camp to camp (WHICH OBVIOUSLY CAN’T BE FLIPPED BY A SQUAD OF 3) not for the sake of playing wvw but for the sake of earning karma.

“You all have to play the game how I want you to guys!” No thanks.

You don’t like stacking or gear checks? Heres a novel idea, run in one of the multitude of groups which doesn’t use stacking or gear checks or even better ceate your own.

You don’t like zergs in WvW? Roam then. Are people seriously surprised that there are zergs in open world pvp?

I guess the point is indeed pretty clear. The “play how I want” crowd has morphed into the “you must all play how I want crowd”.

For dungeons
1) LFG Warrior 6K AP+ or kick are not that common. I think i entered 1 or 2 of these and i did more than an thousand dungeon runs.
2) For stacking you may be right since most people will do it that way. You still may create you own LFG with no stacking, no skipping (i see that on a regular basis), or join a guild of people thinking like you. Hell you can even create a guild for exactly that. Post on the forum that you will create a guild for people that want to play dungeon with no stacking and no skipping of whatever the rules you want. I’m sure you will have plenty of people joining you.

For WvW
1) Make you own little squad of 3-4 ppl to flip camp so the zerg go to bigger target.
2) Join a WvW Raiding guild. With 15-20 organized ppl you can destroy any choochoo train you want. (Hell we actively search for them)

Fenrir.3609:

“You all have to play the game how I want you to guys!” No thanks.

You don’t like stacking or gear checks? Heres a novel idea, run in one of the multitude of groups which doesn’t use stacking or gear checks or even better ceate your own.

I like how I’m being put in the casual boat now. I have ascended everything pretty much.

I’m not complaining because I’m a casual being left out or because I don’t have a large guild, I’m complaining because I consider these 2 playstyles to be ridiculously boring and flawed. Stacking trivializes pve, turns it even duller and takes away any interactions between mobs and players.

Read below to see why zerging in wvw is also silly.

That’s precisely the issue.
STACK or kick.
LFG warrior only 6000+AP or kick
EVERYONE on commander.

Tactical planning? Multitasking?
The mixer boss in AC? AoE poison rings from spider? YEAH STACK. OR KICK.

What’s the point of defending a location? It’s not like anyone will come attack it because they’re in the choochoo-karma-train.
And it’s not like you’re going to defend it when the choochoo arrives and just DPSs the door down.

I guess the point is pretty clear, the game would be a lot more interesting if there were a few players sieging a location against a few other players and asking for reinforcements contrasted to two choo-choo trains consisting of people frying their #1 key mindlessly following a commander which idiotically goes from camp to camp (WHICH OBVIOUSLY CAN’T BE FLIPPED BY A SQUAD OF 3) not for the sake of playing wvw but for the sake of earning karma.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Razor, I just want to say that since you know how the game was intended to be played (thus you must be a dev) I’m sorry for ever doubting you.

Also: poor Spartans in 300…. They weren’t living life as it was intended.

Can you seriously say that the devs created this game with the intention of having every. single. dungeon. and pve content to be done by stacking in one spot without moving?

Razor.6392:

Can you seriously say that the devs created this game with the intention of having every. single. dungeon. and pve content to be done by stacking in one spot without moving?

Can you really claim that? Go on, stack on archdiviner at scale 50 with 5 warriors. I’m going to eagerly await for your success.

Razor.6392:

Kibazuka.1390:

Whats the problem with stacking.
You just stand on the same spot instead of standing spread out or yet better run around in pintless circles like headless chickens.
Geez, some people seem to be very envy of people making good gold with proper speed clearing.

There’s so many braindead speed-clearing bads in this thread it’s astounding.

God forbid you actually play the game the way you’re supposed to. And in case this paints me as a casual, speed-clearing hater I’ll go on ahead and say that you’re wrong. All I dislike is simply the playstyle that everyone is undertaking when doing pve.

I play from headstart, back then it was better. Now everyone yells “STACK!!”, as an evident sign of their lack of braincells.

Well, im sorry for being a braindead speed-clearing bad.
You are right, my skill truly pales in comparison to yours.
How can i choose to run a dungeon in 10 min when i could run it in 30. I truly dont know how real professionals play at all.

Razor, I think you’re being put in the ‘casual’ boat because your understanding of stacking portrays you that way. I haven’t played with you before but your implication that stacking is a static activity is not correct from a speed clearing standpoint. It just isn’t.

Trying to build credibility by saying you’ve played since launch or have ascended armor does little here in the Dungeon forums. It’s very much experience based here and your comments toward stacking betray inexperience in speed clearing.

Now, if you’re just messing around in a dungeon and don’t care to clear it fast, you can complete it however you like. Almost all tactics are viable and you can PuG it just fine.

However, if you want fury uptime, 24 stacks of might throughout a fight, Aegis rotations, and 100% DPS uptime, stacking is the optimal tactic. This doesn’t make it brain dead by default. Missing skill rotations, utilities, and tells/dodges will put you down and kill your time.

I highly encourage any people who are ‘against stacking’ to see how it’s done outside a PuG of bads in AC. It would be good to understand it’s about synergy and not ‘stand in 1 spot and auto attack.’

Razor.6392:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

“Doing so makes it easy to abuse boon stacking, heals, combo fields " Support mechanics are abused when they are used as they are intended? what?

Used as intended? So ANet’s initial idea was to have everyone stand in a corner for the entire fight duration, letting monsters get free hits on the group while they faceroll combo fields, heals and all sorts of broken spells in those encounters? (ex: whirlwind type of attacks, dark combo fields for perma blinds).

If that was the “used as intended” design philosophy then I regret buying this game.

you are supposed to stack, then move as needed, or partially stack. The problem has to do with the whole fight being stacked to the point it becomes a simple dps/cure/defense equation. The solution is better monster routines and groups.

Saint.5647:

Razor, I think you’re being put in the ‘casual’ boat because your understanding of stacking portrays you that way. I haven’t played with you before but your implication that stacking is a static activity is not correct from a speed clearing standpoint. It just isn’t.

Trying to build credibility by saying you’ve played since launch or have ascended armor does little here in the Dungeon forums. It’s very much experience based here and your comments toward stacking betray inexperience in speed clearing.

Now, if you’re just messing around in a dungeon and don’t care to clear it fast, you can complete it however you like. Almost all tactics are viable and you can PuG it just fine.

However, if you want fury uptime, 24 stacks of might throughout a fight, Aegis rotations, and 100% DPS uptime, stacking is the optimal tactic. This doesn’t make it brain dead by default. Missing skill rotations, utilities, and tells/dodges will put you down and kill your time.

I highly encourage any people who are ‘against stacking’ to see how it’s done outside a PuG of bads in AC. It would be good to understand it’s about synergy and not ‘stand in 1 spot and auto attack.’

Well i dont know what the super high level dudes are doing, but the pug version of it is a problem. While it should be advantageous, at some times, it should not become an automated system like you describe. If it is not automated, and you are moving in and out of party stacks while dodging key skills, and using positioning to sometimes avoid damage, then whatever you are doing is not the problem he is talking about.

Wow, now buffing is an exploit too? Forums going to be more entertaining day by day.

1. Boons has a small radius.
2. AI is stupid, thus can be packed up.
3. All melee attack cleaves (except necro and thief dagger).
4. Melee attacks doing way more damage, than ranged.
5. Map design is bad and encourage this.
6. Being closer to your party members fasten the revive process.

Conclusion? Stacking is the best tactic to use in pve.
Add in glitchy skills like FGS and it’s utterly stupid to not do this.
If you want to make current content harder, go naked or run around with a shout heal cleric warrior with your likeminded party members or simply try to solo things.

In WvW stacking has the same advantage (boon, cleanse, ress) and since aoe capped at 5 targets it’s basically prevents your zerg to wipe out if you stick close together.

Play the game please and try to understand how it works before making feedback.

ps: Video proof pls how you can do this easy content like high end pve players does. I bet you can’t pull it off that effectively.

phys.7689:

Well i dont know what the super high level dudes are doing, but the pug version of it is a problem. While it should be advantageous, at some times, it should not become an automated system like you describe. If it is not automated, and you are moving in and out of party stacks while dodging key skills, and using positioning to sometimes avoid damage, then whatever you are doing is not the problem he is talking about.

Well i often get good pugs that stack right we i’m usually able to do the dungeon in about 15mins. Of course sometime the pugs are less good and usually they stack for part of the fight before going in range because they can’t take the hits anymore (not enough DPS to melt the boss and aren’t able to dodge at the right time). Then i simply change my gameplay to complete the path in 15-20mins and that’s all. Whatever i stack with my guildmates, good pugs or bad pugs i’ll adapt my gameplay are try to do my best and usually always have a good time doing it.

With whatever strategy they will always have some people that only understand half of it and think that you only need to stack and auto attack or 100B. This will happen whatever the strategy is so deal with it. And like i said, there is PLENTY of options that you can use to play as you want.

Razor.6392:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Razor, I just want to say that since you know how the game was intended to be played (thus you must be a dev) I’m sorry for ever doubting you.

Also: poor Spartans in 300…. They weren’t living life as it was intended.

Can you seriously say that the devs created this game with the intention of having every. single. dungeon. and pve content to be done by stacking in one spot without moving?

No, but can you seriously say that this actually occurs in every.single.dungeon? Ever stepped out of AC and into Arah and lvl 50 fractals?

Tell me moar.

Lalangamena.3694:

remove the AOE cap, and WWW / open world zerging is fixed.

add mobs cleaves and PVE stacking is fixed.

This is exactly right. The current strategies have arisen because of poor underlying game mechanics. The idea that a ball of fire affects only 5 people (or whatever) is the real problem.

It’s pretty ridiculous to suggest that groups standing close together was not intended when virtually all group buffs, heals and defensive support skills are small radius PBAoE.

I’m not saying that stacking is a terrible strategy, for the not so gifted in reading comprehension.

I’m saying that it’s a lame strategy.

I’m not saying that stacking should be avoided because it’s “noob”.

I’m saying that it should be discarded altogether, nerfed to hell or buff the monsters with actual mechanics to prevent this from happening.

It should be a skillful thing to dodge a difficult boss while staying in range of party members to benefit from boons and heals, instead we get “lol just sit in this spot and mash buttons, dodge every now and then while mindlessly getting all buffs” kind of encounters. Sure people are gonna bring up the 2-3 fights where stacking is disadvantageous to try to “counter” my point, but it’s fine, I’m used to it. Fishing isolated cases in a sea of stacked encounters, you got me there.

People are misunderstanding me. I’m aware that stacking is the most effective way of dealing with pve right now. But is it satisfying, or even interesting? Is it challenging (not saying that normal pve is that challenging as a whole) in the slightest?

Lalangamena.3694:

remove the AOE cap, and WWW / open world zerging is fixed.

add mobs cleaves and PVE stacking is fixed.

i agree with the aoe cap but mob cleave isnt needed because most mob auto atks hurt enough that giving them more power would just be redonk.

I think they would(for pve) put in boon removal pull/push skills on mobs to keep ppl from stacking.

The fact that you are saying that it takes no skill to stack is the real issue though. There are only a few encounters where stacking actually trivializes content. You want people to range bosses away from party members to keep, say, shouts, aoe heals, combo field stacking, from benefiting the whole party. That’s like, the definition of selfish play, and has no coordination or cooperation involved. You can do this NOW. nothing is stopping you.

IndigoSundown.5419:

It’s pretty ridiculous to suggest that groups standing close together was not intended when virtually all group buffs, heals and defensive support skills are small radius PBAoE.

The problem is when a particular strategy offers numerous benefits but has no drawbacks. The AoE limit breaks the traditional risk/reward relationship that normally exists in this sort of game, by removing the danger associated with having everyone in one place.

I mean, you can go all the way back to P&P D&D. Would any DM create an encounter where all the monsters were one square away from each other? Would any party of player characters stack in one spot? Not likely.

It is immensely satisfying to kill things quickly, especially after you’ve fought them in other ways and grown tired of doing that.

The thing is…dungeons are made up largely of predictable, episodic encounters. Whether you run ‘em legit, optimally or even use exploits its still the same story we’ve been through dozens of times before. The only real difference is the time taken to complete.

Some people crave a challenge, I don’t care for it. Just give me some enemies that can kill me if I don’t pay attention and I’m good.

So many clueless people here, I’m out.

I know that stacking is the most effective strat because of the way this game works, but it’s a cheap and stupid playstyle with no real negative tradeoffs.

PvE bosses can’t hit for too much. I’m sure everyone has played through Dwayna where the lag is so bad and the guardians flames are so high that you can barely see her completely telegraphed attacks.

Then you have the Wurms which is actually nice because it separates the whole zerg, making it easier on the eyes and thus they can make the fight harder without worrying too much about people complaining that “one second I was alive, then my screen froze, then I was dead”.

But in the end are zergs good ? After doing so many meta events (aside from Teq and Wurm) I prefer to do them with only 6-7 guild members and no one else. Things actually go faster.
Hell, I can solo Mark II faster than a 60+ man zerg…And Lyssa…~6 minute fight or 20 long painful minutes of trying to hit the boss because most players are running around, trying to kill the champions ?
The same goes for nearly all other meta event bosses : zergs make things “easier” yes, but they also make them last longer because most of the time, half the zerg just auto attack the boss from far away. Or drop dead during the Fire Elemental and cry “REZ ME !!!!”

Qaelyn.7612:

IndigoSundown.5419:

It’s pretty ridiculous to suggest that groups standing close together was not intended when virtually all group buffs, heals and defensive support skills are small radius PBAoE.

The problem is when a particular strategy offers numerous benefits but has no drawbacks. The AoE limit breaks the traditional risk/reward relationship that normally exists in this sort of game, by removing the danger associated with having everyone in one place.

The AoE limit is five targets. Dungeon groups consist of 5. Larger-group persistent world PvE has bigger problems than stacking and AoE limits.

I’ve done many dungeons, mostly with guild members using non-meta builds and lack of strategies. The few times I’ve pugged, with self-advertised meta groups, my experience with stacking was not that all risk was removed. Maybe there is little risk if you’re rolling with the elite who could play the dungeon blindfolded from umpty-million runs…

There’s a fine line between adding difficulty to dungeon encounters and removing the strategy options provided by group support skills. When proposing changes, people should keep in mind that the default alternative to group support as designed is ranged freewheeling. If that’s more fun for you, you can do that now.

Qaelyn.7612:

I mean, you can go all the way back to P&P D&D. Would any DM create an encounter where all the monsters were one square away from each other? Would any party of player characters stack in one spot? Not likely.

I’ve GM’d for PnP groups who frequently used terrain bottlenecks and other strategies to group monsters for AoE kills. One of my roomies’ favorite DnD stories involved a necromancer enemy with a horde of zombies. The party waited across a narrow bridge. The necromancer ordered the zombies to attack. One caster dropped a silence on the necromancer while another dropped a wall of fire across the bridge. Did the GM create the encounter to promote that tactic? No. Did the players manipulate that encounter to take advantage of their strengths? Yes.

I honestly agree with stacking being quite a problem and huntrting the potential challenge the game could offer. I don’t think, however, there’s an easy fix for this.
A cheap solution like the suggested one (granting boons to enemies when they are close to each other) doesn’t just nerf stacking, it would be a huge, and completely undeserved IMHO, overall nerf to meleeing. It’s something the game could have as special mechanic for some multi-boss encounters (like the lovers in AC story), but never as a regular one.

The best solution is all about enemy AI.
Make enemy groups smart enough to not get easily baited by LoS tactics and behave more like PCs and you might alleviate the current over-reliance on stacking and get a lot more challenging fights.
While this kind of changes would probably be welcomed for those looking for challenge as a mean of fun, those that see little more than a gold farming tool on dungeons (which are A LOT) and most average players (those that somehow die regularly on marionette platforms, which are EVEN MORE) would, however, dispprove them.
Such a resource investment in order to please a small part of the community is, needless to say, unlikely to happen.

Zerging is a completely different kind of beast, and it’s caused mostly by the AoE cap and the loot system. Rework both and you’ll get way less people interested on mindlessly following a commander tag / karma train.
The problem (on top of technical issues), now again, is that you might be disappointing more people than you’re pleasing.

Qaelyn.7612:

I mean, you can go all the way back to P&P D&D. Would any DM create an encounter where all the monsters were one square away from each other? Would any party of player characters stack in one spot? Not likely.

There is a very real difference between P&P D&D and an MMORPG. Of course no dungeon master would ever set all monsters side-by-side. It’s a tactical faux pas. The tactics have to be there because they can be there.

However, what separates D&D from an MMORPG (well… one of many separations) is that there are code limitations and player reaction to take into consideration.

In D&D, you wouldn’t even think of firing a bow at a monster while a fighter was attacking it in melee range, because it was too easy to hit your own party member. Want to lob a fireball at a group of attacking monsters? You need to do it before the melee combat starts.

In most MMORPGs, friendly fire doesn’t exist. You don’t have to worry about getting hit from behind by your own party member. It’s not coded that way. Your party members can barrage the area you stand in with all sorts of nasty stuff, and you’ll walk away unscathed.

In D&D, if a battle feels too one-sided, the DM has the ability to alter things to make them either more or less difficult on the fly. An MMORPG cannot do this, but the entire battle is scripted from the start, and it has to be set up this way because of the coding.

Artificial intelligence is just that…. artificial, and no matter how good someone might be able to code it, someone else will be upset because the intelligence is too limited.

Dalanor.5387:

ps: Video proof pls how you can do this easy content like high end pve players does. I bet you can’t pull it off that effectively.

If ANet wants players to spread out more, they should increase the range of boons/healing on most skills. I mean, shouts currently have a radius of only 600 units for crying out loud. Guardian Virtues on the other hand, have a radius of 1200, which is much more reasonable considering these skills all have capped numbers of targets anyway.

If you really think about it, Stacking is the new Tanking. The objectives are more or less the same:
* Pin down the mob to one place so you don’t need to chase him.
* Allow higher DPS without everybody concerning about getting the aggro (you die, get and you rezzed quickly).
* Ease the work of “healers”, by allowing the heal to be focused (Water fields).
* Reduce the damage done to the overall “raid party” (due to the 5-char cap of AoE).

Anyway, Stacking is only useful for some bosses in the game. I really, really dare you to stack on some of the Marionette’s Wardens.

As for the zergs, well… as long as the drop are shared by all chars that attack a mob, zerging is the single most efficient way to clear content. It really doesn’t matter if you nerf reward, as the “reward vs time” ratio will still be high compared to the alternative. But the loot system is one of the things that makes this game unique in the sense that you will help you fellow players even if they’re not in your party because it is advantageous to both of you, so i would hate to see it changed.

And those complaining about zergs in WvW, you should have seen “sieges” in other games (Lineage 2 sieges come to mind, 200vs200 fights… those were epic times).

Razor.6392:

So many clueless people here, I’m out.
I know that stacking is the most effective strat because of the way this game works, but it’s a cheap and stupid playstyle with no real negative tradeoffs.

I understand what you are saying Razor. But i can still disagree. You don’t like Stacking and Zerging. You find it cheap, bad, no skill, you simply don’t like that. It’s ok you have all right to your own opinions.

The problem is : you ask Anet to nerf the kitten out of it so it become more convenient for you to play how you want. Right now you need to work a little bit more to find a group that’s gonna play as you wish and you dislike that. You hate that the exact mechanic that you dislike is the standard for almost all dungeon run. But other people like these mechanics and you want them to be screw over so your play time become more easy for you. I understand your point, and I’ll probably have the same point of view if i was in your position. But as i already said you can already play as you want (with a little bit more work).

Yes. Big groups of people is cheating. Every major war was a real life exploit. Please nerf the actual world map!

Update the monster AI. Make them move out of the AoE and make them active.

Join a guild that doesnt like to stack, and stop your pointless banter about how this game is wrong.
Or make your own game.