Guild Wars 2

ezd.6359:

Another anti thief QQ thread? We have many threads about stealth already.

Fortus.6175:

This isnt about any specific class, just stealth in general and those few classes that have it.

there, answered your question.

ezd.6359:

Another anti thief QQ thread? We have many threads about stealth already.

Exactly This^

@OP, how would you balance thieves if you gut their main mechanic?

All I hear from these threads is “Nerf stealth!” but what about people who play thieves? Should we just be the squishy red headed step children of the game?

I play a Thief as my main now because of the massive advantage that stealth gives me in PvP and in PvE. I get too hurt in PvE? Pop on an everlasting stealth and let my health regenerate while my enemies’ health doesn’t regenerate. I see an enemy in PvP? Pop on a stealth and chase them down, hurt them significantly, and if they decide to fight back, I pop on another stealth and stab them in the back.

Anet seriously needs to learn how to balance classes though. Rangers/Engineers are in the trashcan at the moment because their damage is so terrible. I kind of gave up on Rangers since Guild Wars 1. I played a Ranger, complained multiple times that it needed a damage boost, and never received a single response back. Turns out that I shouldn’t have just left my Ranger. I should’ve just left the game.

Yes, stealth needs to be more balanced.

As a mesmer, I have access to a 2 second stealth on a 40 second cooldown and a 5 second stealth on a 90 second cooldown and it even has a (according to the tooltip) a 1.75s casting time.

Thieves on the other hand can just go hurrrdurrrstealthspamhurrrr. The only part I can counter is using knockback on a shadow refuge, blurred frenzy or timing my evades and hoping I actually evade some 50k backstab. If you have no stun breakers you’re basically boned if you get hit by basilisk venom and if you actually, like (this is madness) INTERACT with the thief in any way they can just go in to stealth and run away.

I think it would be quite good if CC could break stealth, it gives people an actual counter to it.

Banono.4597:

ezd.6359:

Another anti thief QQ thread? We have many threads about stealth already.

Exactly This^

@OP, how would you balance thieves if you gut their main mechanic?

All I hear from these threads is “Nerf stealth!” but what about people who play thieves? Should we just be the squishy red headed step children of the game?

easy, realize that you are not so special and you like every class in the game have balance issues, your been the most blatantly broken one.

Ahh, I still remember the days in which you thieves were complaining that the “revealed” would break the class, that know you cant use D/D #5 and then backstabd repeatedly and kill your target, many of you said “I QUIT WAAHHHH” “THIEF IS BEYOND BROKEN NOW” and here we are, still months since that and thieves are strong as always. If nerfs would come your way Im sure the same story would repeat, so I wouldnt be surprised.

You think you have it bad? Try playing staff ele, or try playing thousands of other innefective weapon/class combos in the game, then look at your thief and see how succeessful they are and how often you see them in high ranking sPvP, WvW, tPvP and even on the esport ANet is trying to put out in vane.

You think we should pitty you? Please, grow some and realize your class is strong, too strong. The only thing holding them back from being godlike is their lack of team utility in PvE and personally I love having thieves on Arah for skipping trash mobs. So no, your class is actually one of Anets favorite.

Galtrix.7369:

I kind of gave up on Rangers since Guild Wars 1. I played a Ranger, complained multiple times that it needed a damage boost, and never received a single response back. Turns out that I shouldn’t have just left my Ranger. I should’ve just left the game.

damage boost for pve right?

Fortus.6175:

ezd.6359:

Another anti thief QQ thread? We have many threads about stealth already.

Fortus.6175:

This isnt about any specific class, just stealth in general and those few classes that have it.

there, answered your question.

Just because you say so… Yes, it is another “OMG THIEVES OP NERF NAO” thread.

BTW. My main is mesmer. Thieves are my favorite targets. Especially berserkers. They die faster than they can realize what happened.

ezd.6359:

Fortus.6175:

ezd.6359:

Another anti thief QQ thread? We have many threads about stealth already.

Fortus.6175:

This isnt about any specific class, just stealth in general and those few classes that have it.

there, answered your question.

Just because you say so… Yes, it is another “OMG THIEVES OP NERF NAO” thread.

BTW. My main is mesmer. Thieves are my favorite targets. Especially berserkers. They die faster than they can realize what happened.

then you realize that In this game mesmer and guardians are the only ones able to stand a chance. I play mesmer too and I create her specifically to deal with thieves, why? Because while I dont feel cheap using stealth I believe mesmer are a balanced duelist. If you know their mechanics you can deal with them, but thieves, you can know it all, play them inside out and still come out dead.

Thieves and mesmer are a display of skills; a good thief will not die to a mesmer and viceversa, try playing anything but mesmer or guardian vs an skilled thief and tell me how that goes.

Galtrix.7369:

I play a Thief as my main now because of the massive advantage that stealth gives me in PvP and in PvE. I get too hurt in PvE? Pop on an everlasting stealth and let my health regenerate while my enemies’ health doesn’t regenerate. I see an enemy in PvP? Pop on a stealth and chase them down, hurt them significantly, and if they decide to fight back, I pop on another stealth and stab them in the back.

Anet seriously needs to learn how to balance classes though. Rangers/Engineers are in the trashcan at the moment because their damage is so terrible. I kind of gave up on Rangers since Guild Wars 1. I played a Ranger, complained multiple times that it needed a damage boost, and never received a single response back. Turns out that I shouldn’t have just left my Ranger. I should’ve just left the game.

Please do left the game. That would make you stop spreading misinformation. The guys who made a new record in CoF speed run were running a ranger. But because people at the forums say ranger damage is bad, it has to be bad? If you run low damage builds or just plain bad builds, of course ranger damage is bad.

Yes balance the game:

I want all the condi damage and turrents that engi has.
I want pets and health reg that a ranger has.
I want AOE Burst damage that warrior has.
I want Evades of thieves also.
I want Retalation and defense form a guardian.
I want the Terrormancer combo.
I want the rotation of a ele to spam infinite skills.

Better yet, delete all the professions and make only 1.

It is funny how thief is sooooooooo op and no one likes them in:

1.- Dungeons
2.- Meta SPVP
3.- WvW zergs
4.- Fractas
5.- JP

The only good thing they have is that they are good roamers, a roamer that doesnt affect a kitten to a zerg taking a castle.

Stop with the nerf QQ and respect professions.

It is just sad how many people with L2P issues creates the same topic again and again and again and again . .. . .

Galtrix.7369:

I play a Thief as my main now because of the massive advantage that stealth gives me in PvP and in PvE. I get too hurt in PvE? Pop on an everlasting stealth and let my health regenerate while my enemies’ health doesn’t regenerate. I see an enemy in PvP? Pop on a stealth and chase them down, hurt them significantly, and if they decide to fight back, I pop on another stealth and stab them in the back.

Nice QQ post, Mr. Elementalist.

It helps to not have your main profession in your signature.

[~Galtrix~] [~Level 80 Elementalist~] [~GoM~]

I love how every stealth thread turns into a thief QQ thread. They DO have stealth removal traps that are EASY to place in combat.

SoLeciTO.3490:

1.- Dungeons
2.- Meta SPVP
3.- WvW zergs
4.- Fractas
5.- JP

.

Goes to show how uniformed you are

1. Lies, my guild (450 people) always asks for thieves for Arah, for TA F/U path, CoF p2 (the gate, their single DPS provides the necessary damage to kill those stealthed mobs)

2. WHAT?! seriously, thieves are now getting a LOT of attention in sPvP, watch the tournaments, see how many of them there are in high rankings too, once again, very uniformed, you msu probably really suck.

3. Say what?! Their work is incredibly appreciated, killing stranglers, roamers, they go to the backlines and finish the squishiest and nobody can do anything about it, they are one of the most seen roamers in WvW, once again,invalid point, yo must really suck if you cant do that either.

4. wil give you that much, but thats more because they dont bring much to the team when it comes to team utility, but I have made some threads about giving thieves some PvE utility already they do need it.

5. WHAT?!?!?!?! Have you even been to EB JP?! Besides who the heck goes to a cht and says “need x class for JP” ?! Only mesmer for the portals i guess, but if you are really going for it then all other 7 classes need buffs too.

Please l2p your professions, thieves are in a REALLY good spot now

Esplen.3940:

Galtrix.7369:

I play a Thief as my main now because of the massive advantage that stealth gives me in PvP and in PvE. I get too hurt in PvE? Pop on an everlasting stealth and let my health regenerate while my enemies’ health doesn’t regenerate. I see an enemy in PvP? Pop on a stealth and chase them down, hurt them significantly, and if they decide to fight back, I pop on another stealth and stab them in the back.

Nice QQ post, Mr. Elementalist.

It helps to not have your main profession in your signature.

[~Galtrix~] [~Level 80 Elementalist~] [~GoM~]

ROLF hahahaha . . . this guys

For real the forum is more boring everyday, all is nerf this, nerf that, nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOO boring.

Play other profession, learn how to counter them and stop with the QQ please.

Trust me ur mind will change a lot after.

Viking Jorun.5413:

I love how every stealth thread turns into a thief QQ thread. They DO have stealth removal traps that are EASY to place in combat.

have to be place at your feet, only have access to one, cost 10 resources, has casting time in which you are sitting ducks, and the animation can be seen by the enemy thief a mile away, cots gold. Meanwhile the thief can simply laugh off and how you noware standing still in the middle of nowhere with fear of walking out of that small line of reveal. He will snipe you away or simply wait off until you move, either way you lose, that, if he didnt kill you while you were trying to set up the trap.

Why do I have to waste resources, gold and time because of fear of stealth? Why cant thieves stealth cost resources, gold and time too?! See the problem now? It is imbalanced (no, stealth should cost gold resources or time, in case you didnt realize it was a rhetoric question and wanted to use it “agaisnt” me)

SoLeciTO.3490:

1.- Dungeons
2.- Meta SPVP
3.- WvW zergs
4.- Fractas
5.- JP

JP…you really mentioned JP ? At least a thief can stealth when there are monsters.

As for dungeons and fractals, some thieves are beyond terrible : they want to play like a little ninja, jumping around with two daggers, never knowing how to dodge.
Also did I miss the tip about using shadow refuge in the middle of every fight when you are not in danger ? Because it’s something a lot of thieves like to do.

Thieves can be useful, it’s just that it’s probably the class played by the most horrible players, thus giving a horrible image to every PuG.

The OP is the same guy who posted another thread recently regarding Thieves and put up a screenshot of him getting owned. Honestly there is no excuse for you to lose a 1v1 as an Elementalist. Nothing Anet does to stealth will be able to make up for your lack of skill. It really is a Learn to Play issue. When you get bursted by a thief unexpectedly you don’t swap to Fire Attunement; which is exactly what you did in your last screenshot that you posted. Ultimately you need to learn to play your class and for the love of all that is great in this world stop using your mouse to activate skills……….

If anything needs to be nerfed its the Mist Form downed ability. Talk about your OP Get Out of Jail Free card; reduce the range on it and make it so that Ele’s can’t go through base keep/tower entrances while in Mist Form. Better yet, make it so that a downed Ele cannot move at all when using their #2 downed Mist Form skill. At the very least change the timer back on it so that it can’t be used immediately upon downed.

No I don’t main a Thief. Yes, I do have 8 Characters (1 for each class), Ransacker (42), 3 Champion “xxx” titles, top 300 sPvP leaderboard rank, etc…….

lol @ the kittenstorm. you people can’t have a nice, peaceful discussion?

yes, stealth and perma evade needs to be toned down significantly and thieves given other tools to offset this.

Fortus.6175:

SoLeciTO.3490:

1.- Dungeons
2.- Meta SPVP
3.- WvW zergs
4.- Fractas
5.- JP

.

Goes to show how uniformed you are

1. Lies, my guild (450 people) always asks for thieves for Arah, for TA F/U path, CoF p2 (the gate, their single DPS provides the necessary damage to kill those stealthed mobs)

2. WHAT?! seriously, thieves are now getting a LOT of attention in sPvP, watch the tournaments, see how many of them there are in high rankings too, once again, very uniformed, you msu probably really suck.

3. Say what?! Their work is incredibly appreciated, killing stranglers, roamers, they go to the backlines and finish the squishiest and nobody can do anything about it, they are one of the most seen roamers in WvW, once again,invalid point, yo must really suck if you cant do that either.

4. wil give you that much, but thats more because they dont bring much to the team when it comes to team utility, but I have made some threads about giving thieves some PvE utility already they do need it.

5. WHAT?!?!?!?! Have you even been to EB JP?! Besides who the heck goes to a cht and says “need x class for JP” ?! Only mesmer for the portals i guess, but if you are really going for it then all other 7 classes need buffs too.

Please l2p your professions, thieves are in a REALLY good spot now

What u r saying is that we can play a role in every point i gave.

Yes is true . . . but tell me according to you . . . what is our rank on them?

Have you seen the poll post about the best of every profession on each possible way to play this game?

Everyone vote (even with the hate on thieves) that thief was in the bottom with rangers, on almost every single role but roaming.

The problem here is always the same, and any skilled player will tell you the same . . . L2P issue.

I don’t wanna delve into balance issues because I play a Guardian and am in no spot to complain about it, but fighting against a permastealth thief in WvW has to be one of the most frustrating things I’ve ever experienced in a pvp game.

I don’t have troubles fighting thieves, more often then not they end up running. What makes me burn with rage is how easy for them is to reset fights or run away as soon as something goes awry, or how a skilled thief could troll me all day everyday or keep 3-4 random guys busy forever. Luckily enough, most thieves are terrible and this isn’t too common, but still.

Give them the tools to be valuable assets if need be, but please get rid of builds that have 80% uptime on uncounterable stealth. Hitting the air only works with melee weapons, gives no feedback if the attack is not a chain and in general feels pretty horrible.

It’s not that thieves or stealth is op. it’s that it’s annoying. annoying things should NOT be in the game. My typical encounter with a perma-stealth thief:
running from point A to point B
get hit for half my life by a thief that wasn’t there a second ago.
turn around, unload shatters get them down to 20% life, they stealth.
$&#@! %æ#$?, continue running
20 seconds later, get hit from out of nowhere by the same thief
slap them silly again, they stealth.
gerrrrrrr, continue running
over the next hill, get hit by the same fricken thief
knock them unconscious, bleeding out of every orifice, confused about who they are, stealth.
They are the buzzing fly of the gw2 world. The dripping faucet. The creak in the floor. The pinpoint of light on your computer when you are trying to go to sleep.
Don’t nerf stealth to balance the classes. nerf stealth so they stop utilizing it as a way to kitten with people. There are filters that prevent compulsive chatters. You can mute people with horns. Rude and abusive people can be kicked from parties. Why do they allow ghosts to be following you around, buzzing in your ear?
Southsun survival at least has a limited amount of buzzing they can do.
Stealth should still be present, just nerfed. maybe one of these: visible distortion tells you approximately where they are if you are looking for them so you can aoe. highly vulnerable while in stealth. 2 second casting time to go into stealth.

Oh. My. God. Another one.

Let me clear this up guys.

OP is a staff ele that was ganked by a thief and refuses to make any effort of becoming a better player. There is a myriad of ways to counter stealth and it is very risky to actually play as a thief, but because OP has tunnel vision, he simply cannot understand this.

It’s so, so, so simple. L2P. I don’t have problems with thieves, nor should you, unless you are a bad player that refuses to learn. Stop trying to tell yourself that classes are unbalanced, wake up, drink some coffee, and become a better player.

Galtrix.7369:

Anet seriously needs to learn how to balance classes though. Rangers/Engineers are in the trashcan at the moment because their damage is so terrible. I kind of gave up on Rangers since Guild Wars 1. I played a Ranger, complained multiple times that it needed a damage boost, and never received a single response back. Turns out that I shouldn’t have just left my Ranger. I should’ve just left the game.

You are so kittening wrong that it’s making my eyes bleed.

Engineer is actually has the HIGHEST solo DPS. Rangers are also very strong.

http://youtu.be/PWQ-39_C8LI

You need to stop making wrong assumptions and start doing the actual math.

Jesus.

ezd.6359:

Fortus.6175:

ezd.6359:

Another anti thief QQ thread? We have many threads about stealth already.

Fortus.6175:

This isnt about any specific class, just stealth in general and those few classes that have it.

there, answered your question.

Just because you say so… Yes, it is another “OMG THIEVES OP NERF NAO” thread.

BTW. My main is mesmer. Thieves are my favorite targets. Especially berserkers. They die faster than they can realize what happened.

You must find some pretty stupid thieves. A monkey behind the keyboard of a thief would not let that happen.

We could continue the conversation here.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Feedback-In-Combat-stealth/first

But I said there and will repeat it here. Stealth is broken. Any skill that allows you to be a troll is broken.

Thieves…can you honestly say spam stealth is fine the way it is?

Dog.1472:

Galtrix.7369:

Anet seriously needs to learn how to balance classes though. Rangers/Engineers are in the trashcan at the moment because their damage is so terrible. I kind of gave up on Rangers since Guild Wars 1. I played a Ranger, complained multiple times that it needed a damage boost, and never received a single response back. Turns out that I shouldn’t have just left my Ranger. I should’ve just left the game.

You are so kittening wrong that it’s making my eyes bleed.

Engineer is actually has the HIGHEST solo DPS. Rangers are also very strong.

http://youtu.be/PWQ-39_C8LI

You need to stop making wrong assumptions and start doing the actual math.

Jesus.

this

SoLeciTO.3490:

Dog.1472:

Galtrix.7369:

Anet seriously needs to learn how to balance classes though. Rangers/Engineers are in the trashcan at the moment because their damage is so terrible. I kind of gave up on Rangers since Guild Wars 1. I played a Ranger, complained multiple times that it needed a damage boost, and never received a single response back. Turns out that I shouldn’t have just left my Ranger. I should’ve just left the game.

You are so kittening wrong that it’s making my eyes bleed.

Engineer is actually has the HIGHEST solo DPS. Rangers are also very strong.

http://youtu.be/PWQ-39_C8LI

You need to stop making wrong assumptions and start doing the actual math.

Jesus.

this

I do agree, but with the 4war1mes combo, you only need 2 competent players— the gate warrior and the mesmer. Everyone else can be asleep as long as they press 2.

i would argue take 20% maybe more off the damage in stealth
make the reveald last 6 or 9 seconeds( when reveald where 4 sec people complained that the rotation where wrong and 3 fit very well but if 3 fits then 6 fits to just takes dubble the amount of time to get acces to stealth agien)
buff there damage outside stealth with 10-15%(with a nerf to heartseeker tho but not damage wise)

reworke the smoke + leap combo to grant blind when hitting a target instead of stealth

and make stealth grant reveald each time you exit it(also if its because time is up tho then a half reveald time could be ok)

Korsbaek.9803:

i would argue take 20% maybe more off the damage in stealth
make the reveald last 6 or 9 seconeds( when reveald where 4 sec people complained that the rotation where wrong and 3 fit very well but if 3 fits then 6 fits to just takes dubble the amount of time to get acces to stealth agien)
buff there damage outside stealth with 10-15%(with a nerf to heartseeker tho but not damage wise)

reworke the smoke + leap combo to grant blind when hitting a target instead of stealth

Are you a game balance coordinator? I don’t think you should be throwing random numbers out there if you aren’t.

I think it’s time all you complainers make a thief, play them to 80, gear up and head into WvW.

Seriously, that’s what I did after having trouble against stealth. Now, glassy, over-confident thieves are my favorite target. And after playing pretty much every decent thief build, I definitely do NOT think stealth needs a nerf.

Remember back at launch when everyone was complaining about Mesmers? No one knew how to fight them, and they wrecked in WvW. But now that’s not really an issue. Even if you’ve never played as one, you learn their patterns. You learn how to spot the real one. The difference is, you can’t see what a thief does in stealth when you’re fighting them. It’s harder to learn how their mechanic works when you’ve never extensively played as a thief in PvP.

So quit complaining and roll a thief. If you don’t feel like leveling, try them in sPvP. The experience is different than WvW, but you’ll start to understand why stealth doesn’t need a nerf.

(No, I do not main a thief. I have 5 different 80s I cycle between. Fighting thieves is not a problem with any of my characters, including my Ranger or Elementalist.)

Scorpio Spork.9568:

I think it’s time all you complainers make a thief, play them to 80, gear up and head into WvW.

Seriously, that’s what I did after having trouble against stealth. Now, glassy, over-confident thieves are my favorite target. And after playing pretty much every decent thief build, I definitely do NOT think stealth needs a nerf.

Remember back at launch when everyone was complaining about Mesmers? No one knew how to fight them, and they wrecked in WvW. But now that’s not really an issue. Even if you’ve never played as one, you learn their patterns. You learn how to spot the real one. The difference is, you can’t see what a thief does in stealth when you’re fighting them. It’s harder to learn how their mechanic works when you’ve never extensively played as a thief in PvP.

So quit complaining and roll a thief. If you don’t feel like leveling, try them in sPvP. The experience is different than WvW, but you’ll start to understand why stealth doesn’t need a nerf.

(No, I do not main a thief. I have 5 different 80s I cycle between. Fighting thieves is not a problem with any of my characters, including my Ranger or Elementalist.)

Except Mesmers get nerfed every patch. I can count the number of patches where we didn’t get nerfed on one hand.

There really should be a subforum within structured PvP that only allows posts from people in the top 5% and higher like arenajunkies. They could easily do this with the leaderboard.

It’s too much to hope for, honestly. Wed never see people complain about health again.

Scorpio Spork.9568:

I think it’s time all you complainers make a thief, play them to 80, gear up and head into WvW.

Seriously, that’s what I did after having trouble against stealth. Now, glassy, over-confident thieves are my favorite target. And after playing pretty much every decent thief build, I definitely do NOT think stealth needs a nerf.

Remember back at launch when everyone was complaining about Mesmers? No one knew how to fight them, and they wrecked in WvW. But now that’s not really an issue. Even if you’ve never played as one, you learn their patterns. You learn how to spot the real one. The difference is, you can’t see what a thief does in stealth when you’re fighting them. It’s harder to learn how their mechanic works when you’ve never extensively played as a thief in PvP.

So quit complaining and roll a thief. If you don’t feel like leveling, try them in sPvP. The experience is different than WvW, but you’ll start to understand why stealth doesn’t need a nerf.

(No, I do not main a thief. I have 5 different 80s I cycle between. Fighting thieves is not a problem with any of my characters, including my Ranger or Elementalist.)

I did – my Thief is the easiest character to play and I frequently 1v2-3 because if anything goes wrong, it is so easy to escape. The amount of damage you can avoid with stealth+blinds if used properly is amazing. This doesn’t even take into account how broken Hidden Killer is because of the uncontrolled crit-damage scaling outside sPvP.

The only annoying part is that being effective in a zerg consists of going to the back and picking off people quickly which, while good, doesn’t net a lot of bags.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that everyone seems to be insulting the OP (because he sucks or whatever). That doesn’t change anything – he has a valid point.

Edit: Okay actually the Guardian is the easiest. However, outside of zergs (where hammer trains are particularly effective) the Thief is still a lot better.

Esplen.3940:

Except Mesmers get nerfed every patch. I can count the number of patches where we didn’t get nerfed on one hand.

Eh, I’m not really here to argue whether or not Mesmer is strong right now. But every class gets nerfed every once and a while. I will admit Thief has gotten some positive attention lately (torment additions, s/d rework), but that has nothing to do with stealth. In fact, more viable build diversity will move some Thief players away from perma-stealth d/p builds.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Korsbaek.9803:

i would argue take 20% maybe more off the damage in stealth
make the reveald last 6 or 9 seconeds( when reveald where 4 sec people complained that the rotation where wrong and 3 fit very well but if 3 fits then 6 fits to just takes dubble the amount of time to get acces to stealth agien)
buff there damage outside stealth with 10-15%(with a nerf to heartseeker tho but not damage wise)

reworke the smoke + leap combo to grant blind when hitting a target instead of stealth

Are you a game balance coordinator? I don’t think you should be throwing random numbers out there if you aren’t.

im not a balance coordinator for anet that is true but that still does not take away my right to have and air my own oppinion in any way and if i think that would help balance the thief more then i have my right to state that, just as you have the right to say im wrong and dont have the right to say i should not say anything;)

Korsbaek.9803:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Korsbaek.9803:

i would argue take 20% maybe more off the damage in stealth
make the reveald last 6 or 9 seconeds( when reveald where 4 sec people complained that the rotation where wrong and 3 fit very well but if 3 fits then 6 fits to just takes dubble the amount of time to get acces to stealth agien)
buff there damage outside stealth with 10-15%(with a nerf to heartseeker tho but not damage wise)

reworke the smoke + leap combo to grant blind when hitting a target instead of stealth

Are you a game balance coordinator? I don’t think you should be throwing random numbers out there if you aren’t.

im not a balance coordinator for anet that is true but that still does not take away my right to have and air my own oppinion in any way and if i think that would help balance the thief more then i have my right to state that, just as you have the right to say im wrong and dont have the right to say i should not say anything;)

You don’t have the right to say he doesn’t have the right to say that you should not say anything.

Also, your “balancing” effort hurt to read.

If 4 secs is too long because it screws up a combo, why would you make it 6 seconds? Additionally, taking 20%+ damage off of a profession specific damage bonus is ridiculous. Sure, Stealth isn’t just for thieves, but they are the only profession to get stealth attacks (attacks specifically gained during stealth). It basically makes Backstab worse than Heartseeker, thus rendering D/P (and a lot of other backstab/stealth builds) worthless.

Sunflowers.1729:

I did – my Thief is the easiest character to play and I frequently 1v2-3 because if anything goes wrong, it is so easy to escape. The amount of damage you can avoid with stealth+blinds if used properly is amazing. This doesn’t even take into account how broken Hidden Killer is because of the uncontrolled crit-damage scaling outside sPvP.

The only annoying part is that being effective in a zerg consists of going to the back and picking off people quickly which, while good, doesn’t net a lot of bags.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that everyone seems to be insulting the OP (because he sucks or whatever). That doesn’t change anything – he has a valid point.

I’d love to see your build and videos against good players. I’m not calling you a liar; I’m just saying 1v3 only works against awful players/builds. Sure, you can escape if something goes wrong. So can my Mesmer and Elementalist.

Is your issue with Hidden Killer or with high crit damage builds? In either case, stacking crit damage leaves a very squishy thief. And if they’re using Valkyrie, that means their health is high, but they have no toughness. Meaning, their heal will be pretty small (and probably on a 30 second cooldown). A smart player shouldn’t have much problem dealing with a backstab Thief.

I play a p/d Thief, and I’ve found myself quite effective in zergs. I do the same thing my d/d Elementalist does in a zerg: lure people forward and punish them for over extending (or lure people from the sides).

Scorpio Spork.9568:

Sunflowers.1729:

I did – my Thief is the easiest character to play and I frequently 1v2-3 because if anything goes wrong, it is so easy to escape. The amount of damage you can avoid with stealth+blinds if used properly is amazing. This doesn’t even take into account how broken Hidden Killer is because of the uncontrolled crit-damage scaling outside sPvP.

The only annoying part is that being effective in a zerg consists of going to the back and picking off people quickly which, while good, doesn’t net a lot of bags.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that everyone seems to be insulting the OP (because he sucks or whatever). That doesn’t change anything – he has a valid point.

I’d love to see your build and videos against good players. I’m not calling you a liar; I’m just saying 1v3 only works against awful players/builds. Sure, you can escape if something goes wrong. So can my Mesmer and Elementalist.

Is your issue with Hidden Killer or with high crit damage builds? In either case, stacking crit damage leaves a very squishy thief. And if they’re using Valkyrie, that means their health is high, but they have no toughness. Meaning, their heal will be pretty small (and probably on a 30 second cooldown). A smart player shouldn’t have much problem dealing with a backstab Thief.

I play a p/d Thief, and I’ve found myself quite effective in zergs. I do the same thing my d/d Elementalist does in a zerg: lure people forward and punish them for over extending (or lure people from the sides).

My build is:

0/30/30/10/0 + D/P. Berserker Gear, Cavalier Accessories, Beryl+Ruby jewels.

As you can see, having 2700 armor isn’t squishy at all. Since then I’ve added in some ascended pieces for 15600 hp and >100% critical damage, with 1700 toughness (not armor).

For videos, I’m still working on one but keep getting sidetracked (and my video software keeps messing up). This week’s matchup was against Blackgate where the pretty well-known [RIOT] guild is. Obviously trying to 1v3 them is suicidal, but during fights with them the build proves to have good sustained damage+survivability.

Esplen.3940:

Korsbaek.9803:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Korsbaek.9803:

i would argue take 20% maybe more off the damage in stealth
make the reveald last 6 or 9 seconeds( when reveald where 4 sec people complained that the rotation where wrong and 3 fit very well but if 3 fits then 6 fits to just takes dubble the amount of time to get acces to stealth agien)
buff there damage outside stealth with 10-15%(with a nerf to heartseeker tho but not damage wise)

reworke the smoke + leap combo to grant blind when hitting a target instead of stealth

Are you a game balance coordinator? I don’t think you should be throwing random numbers out there if you aren’t.

im not a balance coordinator for anet that is true but that still does not take away my right to have and air my own oppinion in any way and if i think that would help balance the thief more then i have my right to state that, just as you have the right to say im wrong and dont have the right to say i should not say anything;)

You don’t have the right to say he doesn’t have the right to say that you should not say anything.

Also, your “balancing” effort hurt to read.

If 4 secs is too long because it screws up a combo, why would you make it 6 seconds? Additionally, taking 20%+ damage off of a profession specific damage bonus is ridiculous. Sure, Stealth isn’t just for thieves, but they are the only profession to get stealth attacks (attacks specifically gained during stealth). It basically makes Backstab worse than Heartseeker, thus rendering D/P (and a lot of other backstab/stealth builds) worthless.

4 seconed where bad because it felt wrong and you had to cnd in the midle of a combo, witch you did not have to with 3 secs, but if you dont have to cut of a combo in 3, how can you then at 6? you just need to do that combo 2 times now;)
the damage might be to much true, tho i still think that they need a nerf to the damage in bs mainly tho in stealth as a whole.

i normally dont find many problems with thiefs when they are alone other then they are anoing as hell, tho i still fell that they sacrifice way to little to gain that high damage they have given how strong stealth is and its from that point of view i want them nerfed a little.

Sunflowers.1729:

My build is:

0/30/30/10/0 + D/P. Berserker Gear, Cavalier Accessories, Beryl+Ruby jewels.

As you can see, having 2700 armor isn’t squishy at all. Since then I’ve added in some ascended pieces for 15600 hp and >100% critical damage, with 1700 toughness (not armor).

For videos, I’m still working on one but keep getting sidetracked (and my video software keeps messing up). This week’s matchup was against Blackgate where the pretty well-known [RIOT] guild is. Obviously trying to 1v3 them is suicidal, but during fights with them the build proves to have good sustained damage+survivability.

Okay, I had to +1. That’s a really nice gear combination. Your toughness/vitality is incredibly similar to my p/d Thief, which I didn’t think could be done with a backstab build. And good luck against Blackgate! I’m on Yak’s Bend, so comparatively, I have a much easier time.

If you have a channel already put together, I’d love to sub.

Scorpio Spork.9568:

Sunflowers.1729:

My build is:

0/30/30/10/0 + D/P. Berserker Gear, Cavalier Accessories, Beryl+Ruby jewels.

As you can see, having 2700 armor isn’t squishy at all. Since then I’ve added in some ascended pieces for 15600 hp and >100% critical damage, with 1700 toughness (not armor).

For videos, I’m still working on one but keep getting sidetracked (and my video software keeps messing up). This week’s matchup was against Blackgate where the pretty well-known [RIOT] guild is. Obviously trying to 1v3 them is suicidal, but during fights with them the build proves to have good sustained damage+survivability.

Okay, I had to +1. That’s a really nice gear combination. Your toughness/vitality is incredibly similar to my p/d Thief, which I didn’t think could be done with a backstab build. And good luck against Blackgate! I’m on Yak’s Bend, so comparatively, I have a much easier time.

If you have a channel already put together, I’d love to sub.

Sorry, don’t have a channel (not planning to have one either). Thanks though.

Here’s the build with food+all ascended gear (which is a pain to accumulate).

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|8.1g.h17.a.1g.h2|5.0.0|1g.a1.1g.a1.1c.a1.1g.a1.1c.a1.1g.a1|2v.d13.2v.e13.3v.e16.2v.e13.3v.e16.1i.67|0.u68c.u45b.a6.0|39.1|59.5a.5b.5h.5u|e

When I think of stealth, I think of Elder Scrolls style stealth. Sneaking around out of sight of your target without actually being invisible. I realize this wouldn’t work well against players, but being able to become completely invisible by stabbing or shooting someone? That’s just silly.

Blinding powder makes sense, and perhaps shadow refuge. The stealth that really needs to be toned down is cloak and dagger.

Perhaps stealth should be a functionality of blind.

People keep forgetting that, even if thieves were to be ok (damage wise), stealth is still a problem. If stealth is whats making them “viable” then there is a core proble that needs solving, because I have yet see a game where stealth was the core element to making something work or break it, now thats just wrong.

As long as you completely redesign the thief class so its not suck after such things, give them boons like protection, up there health to 18k and increase there overall damage out of stealth, then I am fine with this change.

Daecollo.9578:

As long as you completely redesign the thief class so its not suck after such things, give them boons like protection, up there health to 18k and increase there overall damage out of stealth, then I am fine with this change.

yah sure, I will take 18k on my ele too, but it wont happen, but yeah, move the damage to skill you can counter, stuff that puts them at risks, risk that EVERYONE runs already, they are way too safe right now, specially for the damage output the can put out

First lemme preface by saying I didn’t feel like reading a whole ’nother “nerf stealth” thread.

I main a thief (though I usually run d/p, rather than the super trolly d/d, and I usually don’t run glass cannon, but I’ve played with it plenty), and I gotta say, thieves have to work. Even the d/d backstab spammers. d/d glass cannons play balancing on a thread that can easily be broken, and the theives that take you down in the blink of an eye are the well practiced. Don’t believe me? Roll a glass canon backstab thief for yourself. If you’re right, and they’re grossly OP, then you shouldn’t really have to try and you’ll steamroll everyone.

Of course, if you do actually roll a theif and learn how they play, you’ll be amazed how much you learn about them, and how much easier it is to take them on. Seriously, give it a shot.

Now, on other other hand, I rolled up a necro a couple weeks ago, and built a MM bunker. That’s hardly playing. All you have to do is stand inside the circle and keep throwing circles of your own on the ground. Remember to switch to death shroud if your heal is still on cool down. Repeat. I haven’t played a guardian, but I wonder if bunkering them feels as passive as necros. Do I hate necros for being OP? No, but now I know if the fight’s not going my way in the first few seconds, they’ve papered my rock, and I depart for another point. It’s called strategy.

Klawlyt.6507:

First lemme preface by saying I didn’t feel like reading a whole ’nother “nerf stealth” thread.

I main a thief (though I usually run d/p, rather than the super trolly d/d, and I usually don’t run glass cannon, but I’ve played with it plenty), and I gotta say, thieves have to work. Even the d/d backstab spammers. d/d glass cannons play balancing on a thread that can easily be broken, and the theives that take you down in the blink of an eye are the well practiced. Don’t believe me? Roll a glass canon backstab thief for yourself. If you’re right, and they’re grossly OP, then you shouldn’t really have to try and you’ll steamroll everyone.

Of course, if you do actually roll a theif and learn how they play, you’ll be amazed how much you learn about them, and how much easier it is to take them on. Seriously, give it a shot.

Now, on other other hand, I rolled up a necro a couple weeks ago, and built a MM bunker. That’s hardly playing. All you have to do is stand inside the circle and keep throwing circles of your own on the ground. Remember to switch to death shroud if your heal is still on cool down. Repeat. I haven’t played a guardian, but I wonder if bunkering them feels as passive as necros. Do I hate necros for being OP? No, but now I know if the fight’s not going my way in the first few seconds, they’ve papered my rock, and I depart for another point. It’s called strategy.

ok, think about this, would you consider it fair to have people read your statement when you didnt even bother to read the Op and realize this wasnt a “nerf thief” complain thread? Dont you think that, while the OP didnt mention Thieves as OP and vaguely relate the threat to them, many other people are having a really tough time with thieves, regardless of whether they have played them themselves or not?

I didnt bother to read your reply either, a person who doesnt bother to read a careful and civilized thread that provides solutions to a blatant problem does not deserve my attention, because just like you assumed all I said was “WAHH WAHH S THIEF TOUCHED ME IN PLACES” Im gonna assume you said “WAAAHHH WAHHH THIEF IS UP, L2P, SPAM AoE, NOOB, MY CLASS IS TOTALLY FINE”

Thieves need some risks involved in playing them, a well played thief should NEVER die, that is not ok. High damage spells need one or the other of these; high casting time, highly telegraphed, easily interruptable, visually easy to recognize OR long CD, easily blockable/dodgeable, involving a risk; if it fails then it was due to enemy skill, if it lands then it was your skill to know when to do it. backstab has none of this, in fact, it has the best of both worlds since it cant be blocked, dodged, seen, has 4 secs CD, can kill you in one sweep, all without you been to do jack about it, or even see it coming most of the time.

Of course I read the original post, I just didn’t read the whole thread. Hence “a whole ’nother thread.” And I’m sorry, but this debate has been raging since BWE1. You’re not saying anything new. The fact is, in almost every other mmo with stealth, stealth is something you can do until the fight starts, then you maybe get one more shot mid-fight to escape or whatever. It generally lasts forever out of combat, and has no application inside combat, aside from getting a first strike. ANet have tried (and in my opinion, mostly succeeded) in making stealth an interesting in-combat mechanic. Not because I feel insanely powerful when using it (which I don’t, sorry), but because it’s one more thing to manage, and when managed well, is very rewarding.

Just answer me this. Have you played a thief? If so, how much? Also, what class(es) do you main? The devs have made it clear that some classes just have advantages over other classes. That’s why it’s a team game, and that’s why there are no duals (though I’d still like duels anyway). It’s like a big game of paper rock scissors. Guardian’s constant blocking is the bane of thieves. You learn to cope. Sometimes that just means outmaneuvering them to the cap points.

In any event, you are right, a well played thief should never die. Is it because they’re invincible? No, it’s because a well played thief will escape. But here’s the thing, in WvW and sPvP both, escaping may as well be losing, because the name of the game is holding territory. Yes, in sPvP, running away denies you the 2 points for a kill, but that’s hardly the meat of any team’s score, and it’s not like we’re the only class with GOOD escape mechanics. We’re just the class with the BEST escape mechanics. Of course, we get that by trading health, armor, most boons, and an unreasonable amount of hate from the rest of the player base.

Stealth has counters. Move around unpredictably for starters, that does wonders. Being stealthed means you’re not “on the point.” The longer you make a stealthed thief chase you, the longer YOU control the point which is… well, the point.