Guild Wars 2

Aidan Savage.2078:

After skimming the thread, I’ve come to the conclusion that if I decide to open steam ogre’s room exactly 20-21 minutes before fire elemental, thus depriving azhure’s guild an ogre spawn in favor of generating one in time for the world train to arrive, I’m fully within my rights, I’m not trolling, and azhure can suck it up. Sound about right? Anyone see something wrong with that?

Considering the intent was to intentionally deprive someone of content, “thus depriving azhure’s guild an ogre spawn”, yes, that’s trolling. Thanks for disproving your point in your own post.

1) Small guilds are allowed to claim objectives in WvW, as long as it’s useful. When you have JQ and BG beating down on your Keep from two sides, the +5 that a guild can activate makes all the difference. So guilds claiming with no buffs are trolls.

2) Trading Post PvP is different. It’s a market war that we play. I get mad that I’m undercut, but it’s something that I can accept. It’s all a troll, but by undercutting them back, it makes it even.

3) AFKing in an area only upscales it if there’s actual participation. That means either the player attacks something, or they get attacked. Plus, AFKing in a map can hold up slots for people who try to organize. I’ve experienced this in Wurm runs and Scarlet invasion/hostage rescue runs. That intentional AFKing is just as bad as ruining events by completing them early.

Azure Fang.8605:

At this point, I’m not even here for that. I just like to argue and debate

You must not know me from when the Black Lion Trading Post forums were up. I can win an argument with a Strawman, and you wouldn’t even know it.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

1) Small guilds are allowed to claim objectives in WvW, as long as it’s useful. When you have JQ and BG beating down on your Keep from two sides, the +5 that a guild can activate makes all the difference. So guilds claiming with no buffs are trolls.

2) Trading Post PvP is different. It’s a market war that we play. I get mad that I’m undercut, but it’s something that I can accept. It’s all a troll, but by undercutting them back, it makes it even.

3) AFKing in an area only upscales it if there’s actual participation. That means either the player attacks something, or they get attacked. Plus, AFKing in a map can hold up slots for people who try to organize. I’ve experienced this in Wurm runs and Scarlet invasion/hostage rescue runs. That intentional AFKing is just as bad as ruining events by completing them early.

1) “As long as it is useful”. Again, forcing playstyle. But the problem with that argument now it that most small guilds can no longer claim keeps. In a run, an objective can only be claimed immediately by the guild that has the most participating members, while any other guild must wait until Righteous Indignation wears off.

2) It’s not a troll unless the intent was specifically to troll.

3) Incorrect. Vicinity is the trigger. Participation is not needed. Again, observe the tattered armor collection event near Maw for living proof.

Aidan Savage.2078:

After skimming the thread, I’ve come to the conclusion that if I decide to open steam ogre’s room exactly 20-21 minutes before fire elemental, thus depriving azhure’s guild an ogre spawn in favor of generating one in time for the world train to arrive, I’m fully within my rights, I’m not trolling, and azhure can suck it up. Sound about right? Anyone see something wrong with that?

I doubt the guild would care to the same degree as the mindless zerg. They’d probably just move on to the next step in the guild event rotation. You seem to miss the fact that the guild is doing it as a social event for guild bonding. If one point in their stop is busy, they can move on and continue their guild activity.

Aidan Savage.2078:

After skimming the thread, I’ve come to the conclusion that if I decide to open steam ogre’s room exactly 20-21 minutes before fire elemental, thus depriving azhure’s guild an ogre spawn in favor of generating one in time for the world train to arrive, I’m fully within my rights, I’m not trolling, and azhure can suck it up. Sound about right? Anyone see something wrong with that?

I don’t see anything wrong with that… The Ogre is there to be spawned and killed.

Besides, the OP has already said that he is one of the scouts for his guild’s world boss train. He has already said that he tries to find a map where Ogre isn’t on CD anyway.

Aidan Savage.2078:

After skimming the thread, I’ve come to the conclusion that if I decide to open steam ogre’s room exactly 20-21 minutes before fire elemental, thus depriving azhure’s guild an ogre spawn in favor of generating one in time for the world train to arrive, I’m fully within my rights, I’m not trolling, and azhure can suck it up. Sound about right? Anyone see something wrong with that?

Man, we’ve really gone leaps and bounds from the days of kill claiming. This sort of animosity used to be welcome….nay…..enshrined! in game design. What have we become? Care bears. Bears….who care…about others.

Edit: I think you should be able to kill what you want when you want and choose to be kind and courteous as you see fit. As I mentioned before, I think it’s up to the devs to settle disputes where serious conflicts of interest occur. Again, not sure this counts as a serious conflict. It probably depends on how many reports occur/people speak up about their specific grievances.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Azrael.4960:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

To recap, the reason people were mad isn’t because they missed out on a minor Champ Bag. The main problem here is that trolls ruined the pattern of the run. Because of this, I haven’t touched the Steam Ogre in a while. I heard it was bugged, so I stopped going to FE. But now that I know why it was “bugged”, I’m upset, purely in principle.

But trolls are everywhere. In WvW claiming Keeps with 0 buffs in a small guild. Undercutting my prices on the TP. And purposely ruining PvE trains. I’ve learned to live with it, but that doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to be upset at some people don’t understand the logic of how a train operates.

Constantly referring to Azhure as a troll, you apportion malice to their purpose of doing Ogre. By their very opening post, they have said they announce their intent in map to do the event. They’ve gone to the trouble of preparing a key and announcing it. How can any malice be attributed to them and their guild?

What you seem to miss is that the train is not convenient for all players. Azhure and their guild have their own “train”. Should an entire guild be inconvenienced simply because their train schedule is different? Is their train any less logical?

The malice is from the fact that he says he doesn’t care that everyone else wants to do the Steam Ogre after the FE. Purposely doing it to make others mad is bad form. If he did it, apologized to everyone, and promised not to ruin the train again, then I would be more forgiving.

I don’t recall stating that I “don’t care” or that I’m doing this to intentionally “make others mad”. Where do you get off saying so?

EDIT: I do care. If I didn’t then I wouldn’t be bothered by the heat I take for opening Ogre beforehand and if I didn’t care… then I wouldn’t bother announcing in map chat that we’re opening Ogre in advance.

Aidan Savage.2078:

After skimming the thread, I’ve come to the conclusion that if I decide to open steam ogre’s room exactly 20-21 minutes before fire elemental, thus depriving azhure’s guild an ogre spawn in favor of generating one in time for the world train to arrive, I’m fully within my rights, I’m not trolling, and azhure can suck it up. Sound about right? Anyone see something wrong with that?

Yes. That is entirely within your rights. However I would question your intent, if it were only to try and spite me. Also know that it is incredibly easy for me and mine to reroll a new FE map that has an Ogre chamber not on cooldown.

I should also remind everyone to try and keep it clean. Remember, if this devolves into name calling and personal attacks, that is a good guarantee this thread gets closed real quick.

Azhure.1857:

I don’t recall stating that I “don’t care” or that I’m doing this to intentionally “make others mad”. Where do you get off saying so?

By proclaiming the following:

Azhure.1857:

For better or worse I’m the type that cares for my group above all else.

You say you give everyone the option to join your guild for the Steam Ogre. I say you should do the Steam Ogre when FE isn’t around. That way, you don’t ruin the run.

Azhure.1857:

Yes. That is entirely within your rights. However I would question your intent, if it were only to try and spite me. Also know that it is incredibly easy for me and mine to reroll a new FE map that has an Ogre chamber not on cooldown.

Not sure why you don’t just do this in the first place, and get your guild away from the train. You complain about others getting mad, yet you intentionally do the Steam Ogre out of order. So as my above suggestion states, don’t do it when everyone else is here for FE.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Azhure.1857:

I don’t recall stating that I “don’t care” or that I’m doing this to intentionally “make others mad”. Where do you get off saying so?

By proclaiming the following:

Azhure.1857:

For better or worse I’m the type that cares for my group above all else.

You say you give everyone the option to join your guild for the Steam Ogre. I say you should do the Steam Ogre when FE isn’t around. That way, you don’t ruin the run.

Azhure.1857:

Yes. That is entirely within your rights. However I would question your intent, if it were only to try and spite me. Also know that it is incredibly easy for me and mine to reroll a new FE map that has an Ogre chamber not on cooldown.

Not sure why you don’t just do this in the first place, and get your guild away from the train. You complain about others getting mad, yet you intentionally do the Steam Ogre out of order. So as my above suggestion states, don’t do it when everyone else is here for FE.

Any which way you argue it, the inverse is also a legitimate argument.

Azrael.4960:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Azhure.1857:

I don’t recall stating that I “don’t care” or that I’m doing this to intentionally “make others mad”. Where do you get off saying so?

By proclaiming the following:

Azhure.1857:

For better or worse I’m the type that cares for my group above all else.

You say you give everyone the option to join your guild for the Steam Ogre. I say you should do the Steam Ogre when FE isn’t around. That way, you don’t ruin the run.

Azhure.1857:

Yes. That is entirely within your rights. However I would question your intent, if it were only to try and spite me. Also know that it is incredibly easy for me and mine to reroll a new FE map that has an Ogre chamber not on cooldown.

Not sure why you don’t just do this in the first place, and get your guild away from the train. You complain about others getting mad, yet you intentionally do the Steam Ogre out of order. So as my above suggestion states, don’t do it when everyone else is here for FE.

Any which way you argue it, the inverse is also a legitimate argument.

Not so when you go against the rest of the map who anticipates the Steam Ogre after FE. Again, honor the code.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Azhure.1857:

I don’t recall stating that I “don’t care” or that I’m doing this to intentionally “make others mad”. Where do you get off saying so?

By proclaiming the following:

Azhure.1857:

For better or worse I’m the type that cares for my group above all else.

You say you give everyone the option to join your guild for the Steam Ogre. I say you should do the Steam Ogre when FE isn’t around. That way, you don’t ruin the run.

Azhure.1857:

Yes. That is entirely within your rights. However I would question your intent, if it were only to try and spite me. Also know that it is incredibly easy for me and mine to reroll a new FE map that has an Ogre chamber not on cooldown.

Not sure why you don’t just do this in the first place, and get your guild away from the train. You complain about others getting mad, yet you intentionally do the Steam Ogre out of order. So as my above suggestion states, don’t do it when everyone else is here for FE.

I’m finding it increasingly difficult to take what you have to say seriously. You grossly mutilate my own words and misinterpret them. Many other times you either are skimming over what others have to say or you’re just choosing not to acknowledge them.

Just because I care about my guild and my friends more than anyone else doesn’t mean I don’t care about others at all.

You say I should do it only after FE.
I say that my guild prefers doing it beforehand, when available.
Neither of us is more important than the other. So if you have a problem with this situation, come up with a solution — other than calling me a troll. Please.

As far as your last statement here… I’m not sure what you mean? There is no way for my guild to reroll a new FE map in such a way that it becomes a guild instance alone. Because of the world boss timer there are multiple map shards — all of them popping up around the same times because of the timer. If guilds had the ability to create their own map shards — I would LOVE that — but unfortunately we can’t. Goodness it would make finding a working Foulbear and/or Dredge that much easier.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Red Queen.7915:

Also, you purposely killing the ogre to spite the OP? Yeah, that is griefing.

Actually, according to the others, this isn’t considered griefing. I’m within my rights to play the game how I want, on my own schedule. Sounds fair to me.

Except you;re doing it with the intention to spite op, and op is doing it to do guild events with other people sociably.

Yours is much more rude and hateful, where op’s is genuine.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Red Queen.7915:

Also, you purposely killing the ogre to spite the OP? Yeah, that is griefing.

Actually, according to the others, this isn’t considered griefing. I’m within my rights to play the game how I want, on my own schedule. Sounds fair to me.

Except you;re doing it with the intention to spite op, and op is doing it to do guild events with other people sociably.

Yours is much more rude and hateful, where op’s is genuine.

Actually, with sufficient evidence, OP could report for griefing and have a possible chance of getting it actioned whereas reporting the OP wouldn’t be even looked at

Azhure, congrats to you and your guild. You’re having fun, playing the game as it was designed, and making people rethink a Pavlovian response of “kill Elemental, run to Ogre”.

Some people may not like that they’ve been caught off guard by the change in pattern, but to quote the Principia: “’Tis an ill wind which blows no minds.”

I’d also like to state that many times, people have killed the FE and then run off to do the SO very quickly. Many other people don’t get there in time, and miss out on the event, even if they do get into the opening. Having the event after the FE doesn’t mean everyone gets a reward for it. That’s part of why I have a fully charged key waiting for a day when I’m in the mood to trigger the event at an odd time. Having that key meant that I walked past a large herd of people calling for someone with a key to unlock the event for them. No one did.

Palador.2170:

Azhure, congrats to you and your guild. You’re having fun, playing the game as it was designed, and making people rethink a Pavlovian response of “kill Elemental, run to Ogre”.

Some people may not like that they’ve been caught off guard by the change in pattern, but to quote the Principia: “’Tis an ill wind which blows no minds.”

I’d also like to state that many times, people have killed the FE and then run off to do the SO very quickly. Many other people don’t get there in time, and miss out on the event, even if they do get into the opening. Having the event after the FE doesn’t mean everyone gets a reward for it. That’s part of why I have a fully charged key waiting for a day when I’m in the mood to trigger the event at an odd time. Having that key meant that I walked past a large herd of people calling for someone with a key to unlock the event for them. No one did.

I like your style.

Azhure.1857:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Azhure.1857:

I don’t recall stating that I “don’t care” or that I’m doing this to intentionally “make others mad”. Where do you get off saying so?

By proclaiming the following:

Azhure.1857:

For better or worse I’m the type that cares for my group above all else.

You say you give everyone the option to join your guild for the Steam Ogre. I say you should do the Steam Ogre when FE isn’t around. That way, you don’t ruin the run.

Azhure.1857:

Yes. That is entirely within your rights. However I would question your intent, if it were only to try and spite me. Also know that it is incredibly easy for me and mine to reroll a new FE map that has an Ogre chamber not on cooldown.

Not sure why you don’t just do this in the first place, and get your guild away from the train. You complain about others getting mad, yet you intentionally do the Steam Ogre out of order. So as my above suggestion states, don’t do it when everyone else is here for FE.

I’m finding it increasingly difficult to take what you have to say seriously. You grossly mutilate my own words and misinterpret them. Many other times you either are skimming over what others have to say or you’re just choosing not to acknowledge them.

Just because I care about my guild and my friends more than anyone else doesn’t mean I don’t care about others at all.

You say I should do it only after FE.
I say that my guild prefers doing it beforehand, when available.
Neither of us is more important than the other. So if you have a problem with this situation, come up with a solution — other than calling me a troll. Please.

As far as your last statement here… I’m not sure what you mean? There is no way for my guild to reroll a new FE map in such a way that it becomes a guild instance alone. Because of the world boss timer there are multiple map shards — all of them popping up around the same times because of the timer. If guilds had the ability to create their own map shards — I would LOVE that — but unfortunately we can’t. Goodness it would make finding a working Foulbear and/or Dredge that much easier.

You are still putting your and your guilds and friends interest ahead of all those a room over, who are waiting for FE to finish so the player with the key can finish charging it so everyone can do the ogre.

Frankly I think the OP doesnt give a kitten either way about anyone else on the map. So this thread was basically trollbait from the start. I mean, is it really that much of an issue to take 30-60 seconds AFTER FE to do steam ogre? I mean, even after FE’s events start, you still have 15 minutes until the next world boss.

Second, if the OP supposedly has enough people to establish a “fresh” Metrica map, why not go do that for the temples you’re supposedly “rushing” to? If it’s that much of a rush, why in god’s name are you not going to the PREVIOUS fire elemental spawn, and then doing ogre afterwards?

Aidan Savage.2078:

Frankly I think the OP doesnt give a kitten either way about anyone else on the map. So this thread was basically trollbait from the start. I mean, is it really that much of an issue to take 30-60 seconds AFTER FE to do steam ogre? I mean, even after FE’s events start, you still have 15 minutes until the next world boss.

Second, if the OP supposedly has enough people to establish a “fresh” Metrica map, why not go do that for the temples you’re supposedly “rushing” to? If it’s that much of a rush, why in god’s name are you not going to the PREVIOUS fire elemental spawn, and then doing ogre afterwards?

You just rolled into the thread, and slapped some /logic all over the place. It seems that the extra 60 seconds is far too long a wait, so everyone needs to be punished to satisfy the needs of a few. If I didn’t quit doing the FE, I’d probably be mad to constantly get blocked from the Steam Ogre after.

Azhure and his guild are in the wrong here.

If it weren’t for the fact that one needs to wait until after killing the FE to complete their key. You’re derailing the norm. It’s designed to be done in this order by Arenanet themselves.

You may not deserve to be verbally abused. But you are provoking it.

I think I read somewhere that when Anet sees someone being provoked, they may be more kind when it comes to punishment. Like getting a warning instead of a suspension. Not sure if this is true or not, but I think that by his guild’s actions of killing the Steam Ogre out of order, the people who he reports for verbal abuse should get a one time free pass.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Frankly I think the OP doesnt give a kitten either way about anyone else on the map. So this thread was basically trollbait from the start. I mean, is it really that much of an issue to take 30-60 seconds AFTER FE to do steam ogre? I mean, even after FE’s events start, you still have 15 minutes until the next world boss.

Second, if the OP supposedly has enough people to establish a “fresh” Metrica map, why not go do that for the temples you’re supposedly “rushing” to? If it’s that much of a rush, why in god’s name are you not going to the PREVIOUS fire elemental spawn, and then doing ogre afterwards?

^
Apparently OP and his guild are doing this to save time getting to the next event, but the Guild Wars 2 events don’t have split second timing. The temples he says are next take a long time to start up and finish. The SO takes about one minute, it melts so fast with the zerg dpsing it down. Is the OP really claiming that that amount of time is going to mess up their schedule so bad that it’s worth ticking off a whole map full of people?

Truthfully if it had been me thinking of this idea, the first time I encountered such vehement opposition would have made me rethink it. Whether those other people are right or wrong, it’s hard to believe that my guilds wishes are more important than theirs, for such a flimsy reason. If it made them that unhappy for such a small gain to me and mine, to me it’s not worth it.

Rather than engaging in the pointless back and forth sea lioning here, how about simply responding to every “point” with this quote?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I find it hard to believe that an entire guild can only do Steam Ogre conveniently 5 to 10 minutes before the FE spawns… out of all the times to do it during the Boss spawn timer.

At this point I don’t think anyone is in the right, the general toxicity that is anyform of boss training is likely going to see development away from that kind of skinner box content.

As for the ‘greater good’ or ‘need of the many’ that is a bogus as most that use that mentality fail to add the cause that is ‘as long as I get mine’ Anet tried to build a better system, but you can’t change people.

On this whole order before the NPE queensdale trains were approaching religions zealous over different orders occasionally. If there was any permanent order Anet would have set it so there is no way to start the aforementioned event outside of the window post Fire Elemental.

In closing this behavior (on both sides) does not bode well for the state of the game and healthy community.

Azhure, question for you:

Considering how quick Steam Ogre goes down, how would doing Steam Ogre after Fire Elemental throw a wrench into your train?

ANet: Simple solution would be to have the Steam Ogre’s timer reset to doable when the Fire Elemental is killed. The rewards are already labeled as not so great, so it shouldn’t even be a huge issue if someone does it before and after Fire Elemental. That should satisfy both groups without requiring a huge amount of code.

Its just an event.

If you did the work to get a key you can use it when you want. There is no notice when you use it telling you its the “wrong time”. If it was, Anet would have put it in there.

Much like any other example of it, the need people seem to have for controlling certain events is ridiculous. If your day can be ruined so badly by people completing content, you have problems.

You shouldn’t need permission from everyone else to do the kitten events.

It’s pretty much a jerk move triggering it out of order, but whatever. I don’t really care that much about Steam Ogre.

Personally, I’d prefer it if you sent an additional warning right after FE is killed so everyone who’s awake knows not to bother heading into the reactor and ask if someone has a key.

Pockets.3201:

Its just an event.

If you did the work to get a key you can use it when you want. There is no notice when you use it telling you its the “wrong time”. If it was, Anet would have put it in there.

Much like any other example of it, the need people seem to have for controlling certain events is ridiculous. If your day can be ruined so badly by people completing content, you have problems.

You shouldn’t need permission from everyone else to do the kitten events.

Here’s the thing. To activate the Steam Ogre event you need a key that you must charge from four objects. Three are found in or about the three environments in the reactor area. The fourth is only found in the destroyed C.L.E.A.N. 5000 golem at the end of the FE event. So it seems logical that you need to do FE first and then do the Steam Ogre.

Of course you could save the completed key for a rainy day but the terminal to use it in is right there and it literally takes a minute to do.

Behellagh.1468:

Pockets.3201:

Its just an event.

If you did the work to get a key you can use it when you want. There is no notice when you use it telling you its the “wrong time”. If it was, Anet would have put it in there.

Much like any other example of it, the need people seem to have for controlling certain events is ridiculous. If your day can be ruined so badly by people completing content, you have problems.

You shouldn’t need permission from everyone else to do the kitten events.

Here’s the thing. To activate the Steam Ogre event you need a key that you must charge from four objects. Three are found in or about the three environments in the reactor area. The fourth is only found in the destroyed C.L.E.A.N. 5000 golem at the end of the FE event. So it seems logical that you need to do FE and then do the Steam Ogre.

Of course you could save the completed key for a rainy day but the terminal to use it in is right there and it literally takes a minute to do.

But if that was the case, then why isn’t it only usable during a window of time after Fire Elemental or prohibited X time before the pres for Fire Elemental start until Fire Elemental dies?

Seera.5916:

Azhure, question for you:

Considering how quick Steam Ogre goes down, how would doing Steam Ogre after Fire Elemental throw a wrench into your train?

ANet: Simple solution would be to have the Steam Ogre’s timer reset to doable when the Fire Elemental is killed. The rewards are already labeled as not so great, so it shouldn’t even be a huge issue if someone does it before and after Fire Elemental. That should satisfy both groups without requiring a huge amount of code.

I’ve already answered this question but I’ll answer it again because you’re being respectful about it. (Thank you for that, btw)

Our WBT is not confined to the bosses only found along the world boss schedule that ArenaNet created. You know the one that has a World Boss about every 15 minutes? With some bosses overlapping – like Karka. However there are many world bosses like Foulbear, Dredge, Fire Shaman, Rhend, Eye, Arah, Balthazar, Lyssa, Dwayna, Melandru, and Grenth.

In conjunction with another full guild we scout working IP addresses (looking at you Dredge and you FB!) and then act as anchors for our train, our people. It takes work to balance some events between others. While we’re pulling people into an FE map we already have other people scouting other available events/bosses. There are many times when a Temple priest/chest event is called out and burning quickly. In cases like that we have to act quickly. If we don’t do Ogre beforehand, many times we don’t stay after FE to do it because of the normal rush to run elsewhere. Please remember that we’re 30+ people every night. The process of waypointing and using taxis can eat up a lot of time… sometimes we don’t get everyone in on time.

Some of you can’t imagine what we do and how quickly we move around from map to map. Some of you don’t understand. That’s okay. But its been like this for a long time for us. While our train has mutated a little bit with the introduction of Megaservers and the World Boss Schedule — our guild runs the same WBT that IoJ was known for every night. If any of you ever joined us for IoJ’s WBT – you know how long we’ve been doing this.

Azhure, you really deserve a gold star for still being this calm.

At this point, I’m pretty convinced Smooth Penguin & Co. are just trolling. Their arguments can be used to “justify” both playstyles (Really? People have to justify the way they play a game now? What, are you going to call the game police on me for turning on godmode in Skyrim and going on a rampage in Solitude? Bring it on!). Only they never once acknowledged this and are still pretending everything they say is in their favour and their favour only. Christ, our resident political whackjobs know better than that.

And to the people arguing that “this is the way things are done”: Gee, you know, I was just thinking about how being gay used to be illegal. Good times, eh? Should’ve never changed, since that’s “just the way things were”. And wasn’t that nice when being a racist moron was “the norm”? Why did we ever allow anyone to “go against that norm”?
Point being, just because a lot of people are doing something doesn’t mean it’s okay, nor that everyone must do the same, or adhere to “unwritten rules”. As long as this event can be done the way OP and their guild do it, without breaking or abusing the game’s mechanics, they are fully in the right here.
Now you can call them inconsiderate, which is your right, even though I don’t agree with that observation. What is not okay is harrassing them and claiming that what they do is “wrong” and that they’ll get reported, or trying to bully them into changing their (carefully crafted, I’m sure) schedule so things are more convenient for you. Your group of players are no more or less important than another group of players, so quit trying to make it seem so.

And Smooth Penguin, know that, if you keep calling a group of players prioritising their schedule over yours inconsiderate and wrong, I (and I’m certain many others) will not take you seriously until you admit that you are just as inconsiderate and wrong by prioritising your schedule over that of another group. You can’t use this to argue one way and “win”. By the way, your ability to win “strawman arguments”? Bwahahaha, really? Winning arguments like that usually only convinces you of your “victory”. You probably “win” these arguments because everyone else is getting sick and tired of your twisting their words, ignoring their explanations and claiming arguments as yours that can easily count for both sides but disgregarding this fact completely (as you are doing here). Getting the last word in because everyone else left to do something better with their time hardly counts as winning.

Not to go all Spock on you Red Queen but “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few”.

And Azhure, your guild is way to serious if you and others scout IP addresses for an event. This is suppose to be fun, not a military campaign to maximize every moment so there isn’t idle gameplay. This isn’t a place for “if you can lean, you can clean” mentality. Do you preplan ride order and bathroom breaks when you visit an amusement park? Do you live your life by itinerary?

Dude, relax, be spontaneous.

Azrael.4960:

Thing is that Steam ogre was never meant to be treated as a secondary loot pinata. It was meant to be part of the leveling experience in Metrica and as a challenge for newer characters in that zone.

Doesn’t really seem to be either considering the hidden key with randomized locations. Maybe for people who like to explore every nook and cranny.

Anet may as well remove it now given how it’s treated and the toxicity raising. Queensdale 1.1 anyone?

All thanks to the OP.

The biggest problem I see with this event is that there is often a group of people reviving fallen comrades after the FE boss and by the time everyone is up and the loot is gained someone has already opened and spawned the Ogre boss

this sometimes leads to people running for the portal and having the wall respawn before they even get there..

this has happened to me a couple of times thanks to impatient players

as for the Op.. I have absolutely no problem with this at all
if you want to run the ogre before instead of waiting around bored out of your mind then more power to you
if people miss the map chat post about it then that’s their problem

there are no rules when it comes to stuff like this
if the Ogre was supposed to be done after FE then it wouldn’t be spawnable before it..

nobody has the right to act like douchbags and send hate mail and abuse over 1 champion event..

for crying out loud.. its one champion.. grow up

Azhure.1857:

However there are many world bosses like Foulbear, Dredge, Fire Shaman, Rhend, Eye, Arah, Balthazar, Lyssa, Dwayna, Melandru, and Grenth.

Then skip steam ogre. If it’s “just a champ bag” as you put it, none of you are going to be that concerned over skipping it in favor of going to other events that give so much more loot that much sooner. Or skip it and come back when you’ve got downtime between one boss and the next.

You insist you dont want to be hated for it, but then refuse to take any logical steps to not be hated. You also never answered the question. Is it that hard to take 60 seconds after FE to fight steam ogre? I mean, being the whole, large scale epic world boss training guild you claim to be, you should be able to easily adjust.

Khisanth.2948:

Azrael.4960:

Thing is that Steam ogre was never meant to be treated as a secondary loot pinata. It was meant to be part of the leveling experience in Metrica and as a challenge for newer characters in that zone.

Doesn’t really seem to be either considering the hidden key with randomized locations. Maybe for people who like to explore every nook and cranny.

Anet may as well remove it now given how it’s treated and the toxicity raising. Queensdale 1.1 anyone?

All thanks to the OP.

It takes two groups to cause the level of toxicity Queensdale train saw. Azhure’s group is not really being rude or mean.

Azhure and the guild alliance are not griefing others. Are their actions selfish? Yes. Are they rude about it? No. They even announce in chat they’re going to do it. At times, it is not rude to be selfish. Could they maybe send someone into the room itself and say in say chat a few times that they’re doing Steam Ogre now if anyone wants to join if they don’t already announce it like this? Yea.

I’ve never seen an announcement and I haven’t done it enough since the megaservers launched to say that I should have been on their shard at least once. I’m still within the realm of possibility of just never having crossed paths with them.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Azhure.1857:

However there are many world bosses like Foulbear, Dredge, Fire Shaman, Rhend, Eye, Arah, Balthazar, Lyssa, Dwayna, Melandru, and Grenth.

Then skip steam ogre. If it’s “just a champ bag” as you put it, none of you are going to be that concerned over skipping it in favor of going to other events that give so much more loot that much sooner. Or skip it and come back when you’ve got downtime between one boss and the next.

You insist you dont want to be hated for it, but then refuse to take any logical steps to not be hated. You also never answered the question. Is it that hard to take 60 seconds after FE to fight steam ogre? I mean, being the whole, large scale epic world boss training guild you claim to be, you should be able to easily adjust.

Those 60 seconds I could imagine could mean the difference between getting 100% of the group onto the shard going after Grenth vs only 80% of the group. If there’s already a decent sized zerg going after Grenth and he’s going down pretty quickly.

Azhure, how troublesome would it be to have Steam Ogre be a boss that you do at a random spot in your train? Like the boss you do after you’ve finished all of the non-timered bosses on your list. Or when no one is having any luck finding an open temple, if it’s not too close to Fire Ele spawn time. Since it’s one you can control when it spawns, why do feel you have to do it right before Fire Ele spawns? Why cant you do it right before Megadestroyer spawns, since his pre typically take some time to do. And with that being a timered boss, every shard would have it so you wouldn’t have to worry about getting everyone onto the same shard like you would a temple boss.

Behellagh.1468:

Dude, relax, be spontaneous.

This is amusing coming from you. Thank you for the laugh.

Seera.5916:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Azhure.1857:

However there are many world bosses like Foulbear, Dredge, Fire Shaman, Rhend, Eye, Arah, Balthazar, Lyssa, Dwayna, Melandru, and Grenth.

Then skip steam ogre. If it’s “just a champ bag” as you put it, none of you are going to be that concerned over skipping it in favor of going to other events that give so much more loot that much sooner. Or skip it and come back when you’ve got downtime between one boss and the next.

You insist you dont want to be hated for it, but then refuse to take any logical steps to not be hated. You also never answered the question. Is it that hard to take 60 seconds after FE to fight steam ogre? I mean, being the whole, large scale epic world boss training guild you claim to be, you should be able to easily adjust.

Those 60 seconds I could imagine could mean the difference between getting 100% of the group onto the shard going after Grenth vs only 80% of the group. If there’s already a decent sized zerg going after Grenth and he’s going down pretty quickly.

Azhure, how troublesome would it be to have Steam Ogre be a boss that you do at a random spot in your train? Like the boss you do after you’ve finished all of the non-timered bosses on your list. Or when no one is having any luck finding an open temple, if it’s not too close to Fire Ele spawn time. Since it’s one you can control when it spawns, why do feel you have to do it right before Fire Ele spawns? Why cant you do it right before Megadestroyer spawns, since his pre typically take some time to do. And with that being a timered boss, every shard would have it so you wouldn’t have to worry about getting everyone onto the same shard like you would a temple boss.

If we miss out on SO then we don’t ever come back to Metrica just to grab it. By itself its not worth the cost or time of porting everyone back to Metrica. The only reasons we get it then are because:

1. We have preppers with fully charged keys and we’re able to open it off cooldown.
2. Its a bonus champ bag while we’re already there in that zone. Its convenient.

Azhure.1857:

Behellagh.1468:

Dude, relax, be spontaneous.

This is amusing coming from you. Thank you for the laugh.

Why? I don’t ride the boss train. Your the one with the rigid timetable.

Edit: And honestly, if I can’t run it after FE, no big deal. Most of the time it’s because someone doesn’t have the key. But when it’s locked, we all know that someone came along while we were distracted in the other room and did it under our noses and it’s sad that they weren’t interested in sharing with the rest of the group.

Azhure.1857:

Seera.5916:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Azhure.1857:

However there are many world bosses like Foulbear, Dredge, Fire Shaman, Rhend, Eye, Arah, Balthazar, Lyssa, Dwayna, Melandru, and Grenth.

Then skip steam ogre. If it’s “just a champ bag” as you put it, none of you are going to be that concerned over skipping it in favor of going to other events that give so much more loot that much sooner. Or skip it and come back when you’ve got downtime between one boss and the next.

You insist you dont want to be hated for it, but then refuse to take any logical steps to not be hated. You also never answered the question. Is it that hard to take 60 seconds after FE to fight steam ogre? I mean, being the whole, large scale epic world boss training guild you claim to be, you should be able to easily adjust.

Those 60 seconds I could imagine could mean the difference between getting 100% of the group onto the shard going after Grenth vs only 80% of the group. If there’s already a decent sized zerg going after Grenth and he’s going down pretty quickly.

Azhure, how troublesome would it be to have Steam Ogre be a boss that you do at a random spot in your train? Like the boss you do after you’ve finished all of the non-timered bosses on your list. Or when no one is having any luck finding an open temple, if it’s not too close to Fire Ele spawn time. Since it’s one you can control when it spawns, why do feel you have to do it right before Fire Ele spawns? Why cant you do it right before Megadestroyer spawns, since his pre typically take some time to do. And with that being a timered boss, every shard would have it so you wouldn’t have to worry about getting everyone onto the same shard like you would a temple boss.

If we miss out on SO then we don’t ever come back to Metrica just to grab it. By itself its not worth the cost or time of porting everyone back to Metrica. The only reasons we get it then are because:

1. We have preppers with fully charged keys and we’re able to open it off cooldown.
2. Its a bonus champ bag while we’re already there in that zone. Its convenient.

If it isn’t worth much, why not just do it after Fire Ele when there’s time? That way your train doesn’t disrupt someone else’s train. And a new player’s chance at the Steam Ogre achievement related to Fire Elemental. The new player isn’t likely to know of the timer on it.

Seera.5916:

If it isn’t worth much, why not just do it after Fire Ele when there’s time? That way your train doesn’t disrupt someone else’s train. And a new player’s chance at the Steam Ogre achievement related to Fire Elemental. The new player isn’t likely to know of the timer on it.

If we’re late getting to an FE map and there isn’t time to do it before, we try to do it after if we don’t need to rush elsewhere. Many times we’ll just port away after FE dies though. I understand your concern for new players. I care more about their experience than I do for those toxic trolls or those that idle around FE all the time. However a truly new player wouldn’t be fully aware of the Steam Ogre whether its before or after FE, where its located, and probably would be left behind when the zerg charges towards the Ogre’s chamber. Many people get locked out even if SO is saved for afterwards.

When we warn in map chat we do so several times. We tag up and tell them what we’re doing and when. It is much kinder than leaving downed/dead players or those that just didn’t run fast enough after FE, all behind. Of course that is my opinion.

So it’s okay to be dismissive of others’ “just one loot bag” and not your “just one loot bag?” The ongoing thread of people responding to you is the word “selfish.”

Here’s a thought exercise: argue your opponents’ position here publicly for a while. Maybe you’ll see why people are irate with you. Don’t respond with “oh, I understand their arguments” or somesuch – seriously try espousing their viewpoint. Because you’re coming from a position of immense inflexibility for an issue that is ripe for compromise on your part.

(Again, not to excuse the harassment and abuse flung, but by and large you’re being told a pretty strong message.)

Azhure.1857:

Seera.5916:

Azhure, question for you:

Considering how quick Steam Ogre goes down, how would doing Steam Ogre after Fire Elemental throw a wrench into your train?

ANet: Simple solution would be to have the Steam Ogre’s timer reset to doable when the Fire Elemental is killed. The rewards are already labeled as not so great, so it shouldn’t even be a huge issue if someone does it before and after Fire Elemental. That should satisfy both groups without requiring a huge amount of code.

I’ve already answered this question but I’ll answer it again because you’re being respectful about it. (Thank you for that, btw)

Our WBT is not confined to the bosses only found along the world boss schedule that ArenaNet created. You know the one that has a World Boss about every 15 minutes? With some bosses overlapping – like Karka. However there are many world bosses like Foulbear, Dredge, Fire Shaman, Rhend, Eye, Arah, Balthazar, Lyssa, Dwayna, Melandru, and Grenth.

In conjunction with another full guild we scout working IP addresses (looking at you Dredge and you FB!) and then act as anchors for our train, our people. It takes work to balance some events between others. While we’re pulling people into an FE map we already have other people scouting other available events/bosses. There are many times when a Temple priest/chest event is called out and burning quickly. In cases like that we have to act quickly. If we don’t do Ogre beforehand, many times we don’t stay after FE to do it because of the normal rush to run elsewhere. Please remember that we’re 30+ people every night. The process of waypointing and using taxis can eat up a lot of time… sometimes we don’t get everyone in on time.

Some of you can’t imagine what we do and how quickly we move around from map to map. Some of you don’t understand. That’s okay. But its been like this for a long time for us. While our train has mutated a little bit with the introduction of Megaservers and the World Boss Schedule — our guild runs the same WBT that IoJ was known for every night. If any of you ever joined us for IoJ’s WBT – you know how long we’ve been doing this.

What guild is this, what server and how do i join

If it’s not worth the cost of doing it separately, is it also worth the cost of annoying a map full of people and getting your guild a bad name as people start learning about who is locking them out after the fire ele is done?

Those people who get locked out after the fire ele, because they arrived after or didn’t see your announcement are going to hear, “Oh, [guild tag] did it before the fire ele for themselves. They refused to wait and they locked us all out. KITTEN YOU [guild tag]!” All those people will be bad mouthing your guild. If angry enough about it, when they see your guild tag other places, they are going to comment on it, pointing your guild out in map chat as trolls and griefers. If they see your recruitment messages in map chat, they are going to tell everyone how your guild is the troll guild or the griefing guild. Is people giving your guild a name as trolls and griefers really worth the SO champ bag?

While the OP is correct that their guild can spawn the Steam Ogre ahead of the Fire Elemental, it’s also clear that this bugs a lot of people. Their guild will never be able to communicate their plan to everyone who is likely to share an instance with them, however briefly.

Therefore, I see it as divisive to insist on their “right” to spawn a group event at the time of their choosing, especially when waiting until after the Fire Elemental dies costs their guild a few minutes at most.

At the same time, people shouldn’t go nuts if the guild continues to do this anyhow: it’s just one event and just a tiny bit of loot (relative to what people pull in nightly).

Regardless, if the raging continues along these lines, ANet will be forced to take time out of working on content or fixing bugs to address this and will likely choose one of the most expedient solutions: nerfing the loot or removing the event.

tl;dr be pleased when you get the chance for the Steam Ogre’s loot and don’t sweat it when you don’t. #life’s-too-short

Palador.2170:

Azhure, congrats to you and your guild. You’re having fun, playing the game as it was designed, and making people rethink a Pavlovian response of “kill Elemental, run to Ogre”.

Some people may not like that they’ve been caught off guard by the change in pattern, but to quote the Principia: “’Tis an ill wind which blows no minds.”

I’d also like to state that many times, people have killed the FE and then run off to do the SO very quickly. Many other people don’t get there in time, and miss out on the event, even if they do get into the opening. Having the event after the FE doesn’t mean everyone gets a reward for it. That’s part of why I have a fully charged key waiting for a day when I’m in the mood to trigger the event at an odd time. Having that key meant that I walked past a large herd of people calling for someone with a key to unlock the event for them. No one did.

This

The first time I made a key so I could do steam ogre I didn’t even manage to get a hit in to get credit. Pretty sure I was the only one with a key too cause I took a minute to get there and everyone was just running against the wall, waiting.

Azhure I stopped paying attention to Smooth Penguin by the second page, nothing anyone says will make any difference to him, and post after post he twists what people say to fit his own argument. He can call you a griefer and troll all he wants, but no one in a position to reprimand you will agree with him.

We will continue to open the Steam Ogre chamber beforehand when its convenient for us. I play within the ToS, not within unwritten rules dictated to me by a video game majority. I don’t log into the game thinking how I can please every last gamer, I log in to play a game with my friends.

There will always be conflicts between players in any MMORPG. Its just the nature of the beast when you throw so many people together. If you want ArenaNet to redesign this particular encounter to more fully support multiple parties, like asking them to add an auto-reset at the death of FE, then that is reasonable. That would help. But building me up on these forums as some kind of troll, griefer, or villain does your argument no favors. Acting horribly in game will also do you no favors. I will continue to use /report and /block when appropriate… and continue to be on my merry way.

Remember this is just a game.
In Behellagh’s immortal words:
“Dude, relax, be spontaneous.”

Azhure.1857:

Seera.5916:

If it isn’t worth much, why not just do it after Fire Ele when there’s time? That way your train doesn’t disrupt someone else’s train. And a new player’s chance at the Steam Ogre achievement related to Fire Elemental. The new player isn’t likely to know of the timer on it.

If we’re late getting to an FE map and there isn’t time to do it before, we try to do it after if we don’t need to rush elsewhere. Many times we’ll just port away after FE dies though. I understand your concern for new players. I care more about their experience than I do for those toxic trolls or those that idle around FE all the time. However a truly new player wouldn’t be fully aware of the Steam Ogre whether its before or after FE, where its located, and probably would be left behind when the zerg charges towards the Ogre’s chamber. Many people get locked out even if SO is saved for afterwards.

When we warn in map chat we do so several times. We tag up and tell them what we’re doing and when. It is much kinder than leaving downed/dead players or those that just didn’t run fast enough after FE, all behind. Of course that is my opinion.

Why not compromise?

It’s a lot easier for your group to change when, than it is to get the other world boss train to switch. The timered world boss train isn’t super organized. Your group is.

Would your group be willing to try doing Steam Ogre just after Fire Elemental and see how that plays out for your group? I realize you may not be the leader of the group and not be able to make a decision like that without discussing it.

Then if that doesn’t work out, maybe just do Steam Ogre before FE on a certain day of the week. Or a couple of days of the week.

Also remember that getting into that room also charges up the Chaos orb used in making Mawdrey II. So you also lock people out of doing that who are doing the pre-event and may be too busy fighting to notice the map chat.