Guild Wars 2

Dramen Maidria.1034:

The first time I made a key so I could do steam ogre I didn’t even manage to get a hit in to get credit. Pretty sure I was the only one with a key too cause I took a minute to get there and everyone was just running against the wall, waiting.

I’ve had that happen to me as well. I’ve also been in the same situation Palador described. When I’m in a good mood I even take a moment to tip anyone that thanks the key holders for their service, regardless if it was one of my keys that was used. So many people take it for granted.

Dramen Maidria.1034:

He can call you a griefer and troll all he wants, but no one in a position to reprimand you will agree with him.

Yeah, I’m not worried.

Azhure.1857:

We will continue to open the Steam Ogre chamber beforehand when its convenient for us.

And I’m sure people will continue to antagonize you and your guild in-game if you have failed to read the multitude of responses to your post.

Why even bother posting here if you’re not looking for a solution? It really does smack of trolling.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

While the OP is correct that their guild can spawn the Steam Ogre ahead of the Fire Elemental, it’s also clear that this bugs a lot of people. Their guild will never be able to communicate their plan to everyone who is likely to share an instance with them, however briefly.

Therefore, I see it as divisive to insist on their “right” to spawn a group event at the time of their choosing, especially when waiting until after the Fire Elemental dies costs their guild a few minutes at most.

At the same time, people shouldn’t go nuts if the guild continues to do this anyhow: it’s just one event and just a tiny bit of loot (relative to what people pull in nightly).

Regardless, if the raging continues along these lines, ANet will be forced to take time out of working on content or fixing bugs to address this and will likely choose one of the most expedient solutions: nerfing the loot or removing the event.

tl;dr be pleased when you get the chance for the Steam Ogre’s loot and don’t sweat it when you don’t. #life’s-too-short

They can’t remove the event without changing the recipe for Mawdrey II.

Simplest solution would be to shorten the time you can’t do Steam Ogre. Keys are in random locations and aren’t not shareable nodes. When one person gets it, it clears it off of that shard. So it’s not like Steam Ogre is something that would be farmed more if the timer was reduced.

It boils down to kittens are going to wear the kitten cap…

Sure, the OP isn’t breaking any rules…but being a decent person was never part of the TOS. It takes a couple minutes MAX to do the Steam ogre. Doing it when everybody expects it to be done won’t affect his guild’s plans in the slightest.

The fact he posted this shows what kind of person he is.

Seera.5916:

Why not compromise?

With the way it is currently designed there is no way to truly compromise. ArenaNet could potentially redesign the encounter to help ease the conflict. However there are so many map shards that are created during the FE timer that its not like everyone is affected by our actions every single night. Further still we don’t always do it beforehand, as I’ve said multiple times already, there are times that we don’t have enough time to do it beforehand so we try to do it afterwards (if we stay after FE).

When we do open it beforehand:

• We warn multiple times.
• We give players plenty of time to travel.
• We provide the key.

All of that benefits those present.
I will never apologize for not being able to please everyone, for not waiting on last minute map arrivals, for not following the majority. Nor will I EVER allow toxic individuals to change my gaming experience.

rhael.6317:

And I’m sure people will continue to antagonize you and your guild in-game if you have failed to read the multitude of responses to your post.

I’m sure people will continue to do just that. However my actions and those of my guild are not reportable… Do you honestly believe all the hostility directed at me, and the many forms it has taken, is also not reportable? I don’t think so.

I’ve read every single post, without skimming. Even those I strongly disagree with. Did you?

rhael.6317:

Why even bother posting here if you’re not looking for a solution? It really does smack of trolling.

To raise awareness and possibly come up with a good solution that can support both sides of this argument. If you HAD been reading everyone’s posts, you would see that some of us have expressed an interest in just that.

rhael.6317:

Why even bother posting here if you’re not looking for a solution? It really does smack of trolling.

Trolls do this mainly for the attention. It’s unfortunate that a lot of us good people fell for his bait. However, I’m not one to back down, esp. when we’re in the right.

As you can see, he wants to continue to upset a map full of players.

Part of the issue is that people who are coming to the zone specifically to do Fire Elemental and Steam Ogre often don’t zone in until the first pre has already started. I think it’s terribly inconsiderate to do Steam Ogre right before FE, because it is common understanding that you do FE and then you do steam ogre. It really seems like you’re setting yourself up to be harassed, and then acting wounded when you are.

I just know that I’m going to add you to my blocked list so that we’re less likely to be paired up in the same instance.

Anet could easily fix it by reducing the 20min respawn timer to 3min.

Firebaall.5127:

Sure, the OP isn’t breaking any rules…but being a decent person was never part of the TOS. It takes a couple minutes MAX to do the Steam ogre. Doing it when everybody expects it to be done won’t affect his guild’s plans in the slightest.

The fact he posted this shows what kind of person he is.

This really does sum it up! +1

@ Smooth Penguin
Please don’t speak for me. I don’t want to upset people. What I want is to be able to play this game the way it was designed, within ToS, and have fun without being attacked for it. My actions may upset some people, not a whole map, but that is a consequence for my actions — that does not make it my intent.

@ Guhracie
Blocking me doesn’t bother me. However it may not have as much affect as you think it will. We have members in several servers, some that don’t represent, and other times we even taxi into new map shards off of people on our follower lists. If I do end up on your map shard, you just won’t be able to hear my warning in map chat if I’m the one giving it that night. * shrugs * Though you may still be able to see other guild members firing off warnings in map chat.

But please, yes, to all of you that are so vehemently against me. Please block me on the off chance that it means I won’t have to deal with you in game.

Azhure.1857:

@ Smooth Penguin
Please don’t speak for me. I don’t want to upset people. What I want is to be able to play this game the way it was designed, within ToS, and have fun without being attacked for it. My actions may upset some people, not a whole map, but that is a consequence for my actions — that does not make it my intent.

You claim to not want to upset people, yet you openly proclaim that you’ll continue to do just that because a couple of other forum posters gave you words of encouragement.

Behellagh.1468:

Not to go all Spock on you Red Queen but “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few”.

And Azhure, your guild is way to serious if you and others scout IP addresses for an event. This is suppose to be fun, not a military campaign to maximize every moment so there isn’t idle gameplay. This isn’t a place for “if you can lean, you can clean” mentality. Do you preplan ride order and bathroom breaks when you visit an amusement park? Do you live your life by itinerary?

Dude, relax, be spontaneous.

Okay, a little “yay” for Spock here.
Still, what needs are there, in a video game, that need so much consideration? I’m not going to lie, I get annoyed when I “miss out” on loot (for whatever reason, usually my own tardiness ..), but in no way does that ruin the game for me, nor do I have this _need you speak of to get as much loot as possible, no matter the cost. So I really, truly don’t understand why people (okay, mainly Smooth Penguin) get so upset when a guild have their own schedule and play by it, just because it means other people may or may not need to wait for an event a little longer (or just not do it). In this case, someone has to wait (or not, but lets pretend this is about a specific evening when this happens), and why should that be one group more so than the other? It’s literally impossible to make this convenient for everyone. There will always be someone who does something which then means someone else can’t do it. And GW2 is really tame in that regard, since there’s no kill stealing , we have instanced chests and harvesting nodes and the guaranteed loot for big events.
And since the OP and their guild go the extra mile (yes, they do, since they don’t have to) and announce the event in mapchat, that’s really all anyone can ask for.
Of course, this situation wouldn’t exist if the ogre were actually part of an event chain that starts with the cleaning golem, continues with the elemental and then ends with the ogre, with either both bosses counting as separate world bosses with separate world boss loot or the ogre is the final boss (like Ulgoth) who drops the chest. But since that’s not the case, and the ogre can be done “out of order” because the game allows it, it’s hardly trolling or griefing to make use of that when it’s convenient for an entire group of people.

Why would one group be more entitled to this event than the other, anyway? “Because we are more” is not a good argument, because horrible things happen when someone justifies their actions with this. Being part of a majority doesn’t automatically mean one deserves something more than the minority does. Especially if the minority is way better organised. Which, in a video game, is no small feat, mind you.

What about doing Steam Ogre when the pre itself starts? That way he’s on a 10 minute timer when Fire Ele spawns. Which is plenty of time to wait around to do him for those who wish to do so and still make their next stop.

You’re not willing to change because it wrecks your boss train. But your time to do Steam Ogre, wrecks another’s boss train.

When you do Steam Ogre right after FE you risk X% not making it to the next temple boss (or whatever boss not on the timer it happens to be). But that’s the case at all times with the temple bosses right? You have to make a judgement call whenever a temple boss lands too close to a world boss. Or two temple bosses land at close times to each other.

However, remember that is 15 minutes between each timered world boss. When you do Steam Ogre at the 5 minute countdown pre event step, that’s typically 10 minutes before the next World Boss. So they don’t have a choice if they want to make the next world boss. They either can do Steam Ogre or the next World Boss. There isn’t a chance of X% making it on time 90% of the time. The only time that may not be the case is if Claw of Jormag ever happens to be the boss after Fire Elemental during the time period you do your train.

However, if you do Steam Ogre at the time the pre starts, those who wish to do Steam Ogre after Fire Elemental, would only have to wait 5 minutes to be able to do so. And that leaves plenty of time to kill the Steam Ogre and get to the next world boss.

Would just doing Steam Ogre earlier when you do it before Fire Ele be workable?

Red Queen.7915:

It’s literally impossible to make this convenient for everyone.

There is. ANet could reduce the 20 minute timer or have it reset to doable after the Fire Elemental is killed.

But short of that, no, one group will have to compromise. And it’s easier to for an organized group to reshuffle than it is for an unorganized one. And let’s be honest, the timered world boss train is not organized. Not like Azhure’s group is.

Which makes me wonder why, if the general boss train is so unorganised, an organised group is required to double their effort to get the chaotic bunch more loot.

I’d be all in favour of making the ogre a boss in its own right, or outright part of the FE chain (in that, for example, any key dissolves after ten minutes and can only be used right after the FE died. Also, scale the poor creature so it stands a ghost of a chance). With a slight redesign of these two events, it could be possible to squeeze it all into the time it now takes to do the FE event and have everyone be able to participate. Or don’t make the FE a requirement for the key in the first place; that way, the events wouldn’t be tied together anymore, and maybe this irrational expectation that everyone follow some “unwritten rule” would go away.

Red Queen.7915:

Which makes me wonder why, if the general boss train is so unorganised, an organised group is required to double their effort to get the chaotic bunch more loot.

I’d be all in favour of making the ogre a boss in its own right, or outright part of the FE chain (in that, for example, any key dissolves after ten minutes and can only be used right after the FE died. Also, scale the poor creature so it stands a ghost of a chance). With a slight redesign of these two events, it could be possible to squeeze it all into the time it now takes to do the FE event and have everyone be able to participate. Or don’t make the FE a requirement for the key in the first place; that way, the events wouldn’t be tied together anymore, and maybe this irrational expectation that everyone follow some “unwritten rule” would go away.

Or have the portal open without a key after Fire Ele and with a key to do it off schedule. With off schedule having a 20 minute cooling off period. Where the only time it can open is if Fire Elemental’s death opens it.

But until such time as ANet changes it, one group is going to have to compromise in order to get both groups maximum chances at loot from both Fire Ele and Steam Ogre.

Red Queen.7915:

Why would one group be more entitled to this event than the other, anyway?

We’re Entitled to not be griefed by having an organized group of players hijack the stated norm of FE then Steam Ogre. When trolls come in and say “oh well, you’re came too late to do Steam Ogre early, too bad”, that should be a reportable offense. The group is purposely ruining the game for the majority who expects events to be done in proper order.

We were here first. The community established the norm. Random pugs aren’t all in the same voice chat server to be warned in advance that a troll group broke the train.

Again, I will say that with the Open World PvE, you do have the right to play the game the way you want, but if that means upsetting a community, Anet needs to step in and stop it. Changing the Steam Ogre to be accessible after the FE (the way it was meant to be) is the simple change to solve all this. Or at least make the event reset upon the FE’s defeat.

Red Queen.7915:

Or don’t make the FE a requirement for the key in the first place; that way, the events wouldn’t be tied together anymore, and maybe this irrational expectation that everyone follow some “unwritten rule” would go away.

I don’t care much about anything else going on on this thread. But here is something that has been annoying me a lot lately: Guild Wars 2 was supposed to be a game about cooperation and not having conflicting goals by the players, yet they design so many events in the opposite way. I’ll never get all those “unwritten rules”

I have a question to all of you who say that the OP is wrong and he should be reported for what he is doing because he ruins the experience of others.

Say I’m trying to kill the Vinewrath but it is nearly impossible at the moment, or takes an insane amount of time because people are chest farming everywhere and are not doing the events. Can’t find any instances that go for Vinewrath, all of the LFG messages are “Chest farming, bring Shovels”

Should I report ALL those chest farmers (that’s a whole lot of reporting / clicking!) because they prevent me from doing what I want?

Azhure.1857:

Event: Defeat the misplaced Steam Ogre
Location: Thaumanova Reactor in Metrica Province
Prerequisite: Matrix Cube Key (fully charged)
Cooldown: 20 minutes

Okay, there is something I have to say concerning this event. After putting the effort into finding these keys and charging them, I can open the ogre chamber whenever its available to me. I don’t have to wait until after Fire Elemental (WBT) before I open it. After hearing people scream at me, send me hate mail, try to get me reported for trolling and/or griefing… I find it increasingly difficult to continue being nice about it.

Let me clarify a bit on what is happening.

My guild runs a WBT every night (except holidays and patch days) and when we call everyone over to FE — we usually like to do Steam Ogre beforehand. Why? Two main reasons: 1) Actively doing something is better than standing around in the FE chamber waiting for it to spawn and 2) Normally we have other places to be. Remember that outside of the horrible World Boss Schedule there are Temples and other T2 world bosses that aren’t on a schedule. We have scouts and preppers out calling them when available. So when we’re at FE we normally do Ogre>FE>T2/Temple>Shatterer (roughly).

Where is the conflict? When we are in the process of pulling all of our guild members onto the same map shard we warn in Map chat that we’re opening Ogre before FE. Usually the 3 minute mark. Unfortunately the amount of hate we’re getting for it is starting to wear on me. I don’t have to warn in map chat – please remember that – but I do because it is the considerate thing to do. We’re perfectly capable of opening the chamber without saying a word. But, again, the hate is starting to wear on me.

For any of you reading this that have sent me hateful messages and the like:

• Reporting me will do nothing because I’m not doing anything wrong or worthy of a report.
• Blocking me doesn’t bother me but may cause you to miss a future Ogre call out.
• Outwardly expressing your anger at me may end up causing me to report you, depending on the vulgarity used.

So to everyone reading this…
Please pay attention to map chat and be kind to those around you.

This thread is now a bit TL:DR, so I’m going to just answer the OP.

If you do something in a way that is contrary to the way the majority of participants want to do it, they will complain, and you will have to suck it up.

Given that YOU SAY YOURSELF people are unhappy about it, and are TELLING YOU they’re unhappy about it, why do you keep on doing it like that? The only reason to continue to do it that way is basically to troll everyone else, because you’re feeling hissy about them complaining.

Quit complaining. If you want to carry on annoying everyone else in the map then you better just suck it up, princess. What answer were you expecting?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Red Queen.7915:

Why would one group be more entitled to this event than the other, anyway?

We’re Entitled to not be griefed by having an organized group of players hijack the stated norm of FE then Steam Ogre. When trolls come in and say “oh well, you’re came too late to do Steam Ogre early, too bad”, that should be a reportable offense. The group is purposely ruining the game for the majority who expects events to be done in proper order.

We were here first. The community established the norm. Random pugs aren’t all in the same voice chat server to be warned in advance that a troll group broke the train.

Again, I will say that with the Open World PvE, you do have the right to play the game the way you want, but if that means upsetting a community, Anet needs to step in and stop it. Changing the Steam Ogre to be accessible after the FE (the way it was meant to be) is the simple change to solve all this. Or at least make the event reset upon the FE’s defeat.

Azhure’s group is not griefing.

And if Steam Ogre happening only after Fire Elemental was what ANet intended, then we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now because it wouldn’t be possible to do Steam Ogre before Fire Elemental. This is not the best solution as it destroys one step in one group’s train but leaves the step in another train alone. And neither train is more important than the other. And who got there first doesn’t matter. No one owns a map or an enemy.

The better solution is to either shorten the timer down to 5 or fewer minutes or reset the timer to doable when Fire Ele is defeated. This will allow both trains to keep going without losing any stops.

Seera.5916:

The better solution is to either shorten the timer down to 5 or fewer minutes or reset the timer to doable when Fire Ele is defeated. This will allow both trains to keep going without losing any stops.

Agreed.

maddoctor.2738:

Should I report ALL those chest farmers (that’s a whole lot of reporting / clicking!) because they prevent me from doing what I want?

If you don’t mind me jumping in on this part of the question, I say you should report all the AFKers who sit around taking up precious map slot space. We had this issue with the Scarlet Invasion, and GM Chris was kicking people he caught AFKing in hidden areas.

Azhure.1857:

Remember this is just a game.
In Behellagh’s immortal words:
“Dude, relax, be spontaneous.”

Not thrilled you took my words out of context here.

In short, what Azhure’s guild’s actions are perfectly legal (I’m sure another phrase that will be lifted in support of your point of view Azhure). It is also only one champ bag.

However by putting their interests if front of all the other players in the adjacent room who believe that Ogre is next AFTER FE is done and not done DURING smacks a bit of selfishness on his guild’s part. And making announcements during the last firefight before FE doesn’t absolve your guild’s actions.

You know that others expect to do it after. You know there is a cooldown timer. You know that doing it when you are doing it means that when FE is over the Ogre portal will still be in cooldown and all those players will be locked out. So how can you say it’s not your guild’s intention to disrupt the play of all those other players if you know what the outcome of your actions will be?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

maddoctor.2738:

Should I report ALL those chest farmers (that’s a whole lot of reporting / clicking!) because they prevent me from doing what I want?

If you don’t mind me jumping in on this part of the question, I say you should report all the AFKers who sit around taking up precious map slot space. We had this issue with the Scarlet Invasion, and GM Chris was kicking people he caught AFKing in hidden areas.

Well I wasn’t talking about AFKers but the Chest Farmers, those who form a big train and follow a commander around to use shovels and get loot. Due to their Chest Farming, the Vinewrath fight is nearly impossible, similar to how the OP’s guild is making the Steam Ogre fight impossible for other players.

The reason I’m saying this is because of the “unwritten rules” some people posted about on this thread. It appears that in some cases there are multiple “unwritten rules” that conflict with each other. What happens then?

Everybody downs a bottle of vodka and joins the conga line.

Seriously though, this is why “unwritten rules” are silly. They’ll always conflict, and either way, someone will be left out in the cold. So, so long as no-one is breaking actual rules, there is very little one can really complain about.

Red Queen.7915:

Everybody downs a bottle of vodka and joins the conga line.

Seriously though, this is why “unwritten rules” are silly. They’ll always conflict, and either way, someone will be left out in the cold. So, so long as no-one is breaking actual rules, there is very little one can really complain about.

Yet, one can complain about very little. ^^

/shrug. As to what what OP is doing, it’s somewhat selfish but in practical terms impacts very few people. Just the ones on that day, that time, that shard, who don’t get to do it because they were late/not reading map chat/refused to do it with that guild.

People miss out on the champ bag much more often because someone doesn’t have a key than because of OP’s guild’s actions. If I were OP, my main consideration would be the ill will generated towards his guild by their actions, as seen by the responses he gets in map chat. If I were a guild leader, this would be something I would be weighing in my decision to get one additional loot bag.

This just screams the Queensdale champ train all over again. They just need to do the inevitable and nerf it to a veteran. No one is entitled to a specific champ at a specific order.

People keep going on about this being inconsiderate and selfish.

How many of you hold back when going after the steam ogre, or any champ, instead of burning it down as fast as you can so that everyone can get credit for it?

Still, its just a champ bag. A bag with abysmally low odds of anything worthwhile being in it. People need to get over the thought of maybe having one less that day.

Its not important. The loot really isn’t that important.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

A lesson can be learned from this thread. The idea is similar to what happened in World War 2. One group of people felt what they were doing was in the right, while the majority of the world was against them. In the end, US won. Pun intended.

Yeah, this is clearly… uh. A paragraph of something. Godwin’s law, ahoy.

Only, you know, this is a video game, not genocide.
But nice way of bringing the kittens to the table.
/Godwin’s Law

Edit: Ahahaha, what? The short term for National Socialist gets kitten’ed? The hell? oO

Smooth Penguin.5294:

A lesson can be learned from this thread. The idea is similar to what happened in World War 2. One group of people felt what they were doing was in the right, while the majority of the world was against them. In the end, US won. Pun intended.

Now that I’ve read this, I feel ok for never again taking seriously anything you have to say.

Well, now that Smooth Penguin managed to drag Godwin’s law into the argument (by the way Smooth, that’s a sign that that person has lost the argument and can’t bring up anything rational to say) I would say it’s time to close this thread down.

I’m only comparing the scenario that one group felt what they did was the right thing, when in reality, everyone despised them for it. A similar example would be the Spanish Inquisition. Or Christopher Columbus stealing the native American’s lands.

Edit – One more well known example would be the reason why Moses opposed the Pharaoh, and why he parted the Red Sea.

Only history is never this black and white.
And this is still a video game.
Jesus.
*waits for mod to slap a lock on this thread*

Oh, so it wasn’t a bug after all… I charged a key a little while ago because I finally crafted mawdrey. Since the fire ele is (potentially) the last step I expected the portal to open and assumed it was bugged like many others suspected.

There is usually a commander or two on the map when FE happens, why not write them and ask if they’d like to join “your” timing. If yes, do it and if declined don’t do it.

I see that you and your guild are by opening the event also providing one guaranteed key, which is nice of you.
Also your efficiency argument makes sense to a degree, mapchat just doesn’t seem the best tool for communicating this.

See it from a different angle, by providing the key after FE you’d be supporting the train as it is without having to change other players routine.

You are not wrong by doing the event earlier but you will make other players feel wronged nonetheless. Just ask the commanders directly and see if you can convince them, people would probably like a more efficient route after all.

Really doesn’t seem like an issue that can’t be solved with communication. This one champ bag doesn’t seem worth all the hate though, on either side.

Good to know the steam ogre is working as intended though, maybe write on reddit as well.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I’m only comparing the scenario that one group felt what they did was the right thing, when in reality, everyone despised them for it. A similar example would be the Spanish Inquisition. Or Christopher Columbus stealing the native American’s lands.

Edit – One more well known example would be the reason why Moses opposed the Pharaoh, and why he parted the Red Sea.

Are you really comparing historical events that involved death, suffering, and torture with the slight inconvenience of missing an event?

That is just…special.

Pockets.3201:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I’m only comparing the scenario that one group felt what they did was the right thing, when in reality, everyone despised them for it. A similar example would be the Spanish Inquisition. Or Christopher Columbus stealing the native American’s lands.

Edit – One more well known example would be the reason why Moses opposed the Pharaoh, and why he parted the Red Sea.

Are you really comparing historical events that involved death, suffering, and torture with the slight inconvienece of missing an event?

That is just…special.

The core theme is the same. You have two different groups, with opposing viewpoints. But the majority supported the “correct” side.

Pockets.3201:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I’m only comparing the scenario that one group felt what they did was the right thing, when in reality, everyone despised them for it. A similar example would be the Spanish Inquisition. Or Christopher Columbus stealing the native American’s lands.

Edit – One more well known example would be the reason why Moses opposed the Pharaoh, and why he parted the Red Sea.

Are you really comparing historical events that involved death, suffering, and torture with the slight inconvienece of missing an event?

That is just…special.

Well, there is that loot bag. Surely that’s equal to a very small genocide at least.

/sarcasm

Really Smooth, you aren’t helping your argument in the least with these strange and outlandish comparisons.

Red Queen.7915:

Only history is never this black and white.
And this is still a video game.
Jesus.
waits for mod to slap a lock on this thread

Agreed. I think discussion here devolved long ago. I’ve been called a troll, a griefer, I’ve had my honor and decency question, and now I’ve been called a WW2 kitten. Amazing stuff.

To those of you that understand this is a video game, that support people playing it within game design, and could make posts without resulting to insults — You have my thanks. Hopefully ArenaNet can make some kind of adjustment to this event to please everyone. We’ll see.

Happy gaming, everyone.

Moderator, please close this thread.

I’m pretty sure this is the strawman that is supposed to help him win the argument? Making it seem like the OP is at least responsible for a civil war among the players, and then convincing us all that civil wars are bad, only this isn’t really about a civil war.
Or whatever.

Astral Projections.7320:

Well, now that Smooth Penguin managed to drag Godwin’s law into the argument (by the way Smooth, that’s a sign that that person has lost the argument and can’t bring up anything rational to say) I would say it’s time to close this thread down.

I just want to nitpick this point a bit. Godwin’s law merely states that in any discussion on a forum, the German political party of the 1930s will be brought up. It does not imply that the arguments are no longer rational. That being said, references to that German political party of the 1930s often tend to be out of scale, subject to slippery slope fallacies, or are appeal to emotions, but there are legitimate applications of such comparisons.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Pockets.3201:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I’m only comparing the scenario that one group felt what they did was the right thing, when in reality, everyone despised them for it. A similar example would be the Spanish Inquisition. Or Christopher Columbus stealing the native American’s lands.

Edit – One more well known example would be the reason why Moses opposed the Pharaoh, and why he parted the Red Sea.

Are you really comparing historical events that involved death, suffering, and torture with the slight inconvienece of missing an event?

That is just…special.

The core theme is the same. You have two different groups, with opposing viewpoints. But the majority supported the “correct” side.

No, the majority don’t care as its irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. We quietly move on if there is no steam ogre and do something else.

Its the loud, noisy, lootkitten minority that go on and on about how its not fair that they can’t get their precious bags.

I was looking to find something that everyone could relate to. Perhaps I should have stuck with Moses and the Pharaoh. I’ll delete the post that offended my friends.

mtpelion.4562:

Astral Projections.7320:

Well, now that Smooth Penguin managed to drag Godwin’s law into the argument (by the way Smooth, that’s a sign that that person has lost the argument and can’t bring up anything rational to say) I would say it’s time to close this thread down.

I just want to nitpick this point a bit. Godwin’s law merely states that in any discussion on a forum, the German political party of the 1930s will be brought up. It does not imply that the arguments are no longer rational. That being said, references to that German political party of the 1930s often tend to be out of scale, subject to slippery slope fallacies, or are appeal to emotions, but there are legitimate applications of such comparisons.

Of course there are, but I’d wager those have a better place in discussions about history and/or violent conflicts of similar nature, and not in a discussion about someone doing an event “out of order” in a video game.
And to be honest, most times, the 3rd Reich Germany argument’s only purpose is to paint the other side as bad as possible so that no-one can argue in their favour without seeming like a 3rd Reich German party member.

mtpelion.4562:

Astral Projections.7320:

Well, now that Smooth Penguin managed to drag Godwin’s law into the argument (by the way Smooth, that’s a sign that that person has lost the argument and can’t bring up anything rational to say) I would say it’s time to close this thread down.

I just want to nitpick this point a bit. Godwin’s law merely states that in any discussion on a forum, the German political party of the 1930s will be brought up. It does not imply that the arguments are no longer rational. That being said, references to that German political party of the 1930s often tend to be out of scale, subject to slippery slope fallacies, or are appeal to emotions, but there are legitimate applications of such comparisons.

Maybe so, but in this case I would say it’s definitely a sign that Smooth hasn’t anything else rational to bring to the argument. Comparing death, suffering, torture and war to the loss of an loot bag? A possible theoretical loss at that.