Guild Wars 2

Nerelith.7360:

nexxe.7081:

Let’s take a poll, whether it’s not scientific or not.
http://strawpoll.me/2312877

Let’s Not and say we did. This is Not about how many of the 3 % of the playerbase that bothers to Post on the forums favors speed-boost mounts or not.

we are not indicative of the opinions of the 97 % that play the game as if the forums did not exist.

What the pro-mount side needs is to provide compelling reasons. And what the anti-mount side needs is to not allow the pro-mount side to distract attention away from the fact that they are not providing compelling arguments for their proposition.

We have yet to see compelling arguments. Just distractions.

There have been compelling reasons, but you choose to ignore them, because you are ideologically driven against them.

Revenue for Anet.
Immersion.
Cosmetics (such as the broom).
Less reliance on constantly switching out weapons, traits, and utilities for Swiftness Boons.
Enhanced traveling options.

Now, let’s look at the other side of the argument, “we already have waypoints!” Yes, very compelling. lol.

All waypoints do, is encourage people to use Swiftness Boons, instead of mounts. Why go through all the trouble of switching out weapons. traits, and utilities, when one can use a mount for the same purpose? In fact, it would enhance gameplay mechanics, by discouraging 50+ zergs, both in Champ trains, and WvW, but only if there were less waypoints.

Is this what GW2 has become? Is it any wonder the MMO genre population laughs at the mindless zombie zergs in GW2? They have a point. It requires no thought. Just do EotM for proof.

nexxe.7081:

Nerelith.7360:

nexxe.7081:

Let’s take a poll, whether it’s not scientific or not.
http://strawpoll.me/2312877

Let’s Not and say we did. This is Not about how many of the 3 % of the playerbase that bothers to Post on the forums favors speed-boost mounts or not.

we are not indicative of the opinions of the 97 % that play the game as if the forums did not exist.

What the pro-mount side needs is to provide compelling reasons. And what the anti-mount side needs is to not allow the pro-mount side to distract attention away from the fact that they are not providing compelling arguments for their proposition.

We have yet to see compelling arguments. Just distractions.

There have been compelling reasons, but you choose to ignore them, because you are ideologically driven against them.

Revenue for Anet.
Immersion.
Cosmetics (such as the broom).
Less reliance on constantly switching out weapons, traits, and utilities for Swiftness Boons.
Enhanced traveling options.

Now, let’s look at the other side of the argument, “we already have waypoints!” Yes, very compelling. lol.

All waypoints do, is encourage people to use Swiftness Boons, instead of mounts. Why go through all the trouble of switching out weapons. traits, and utilities, when one can use a mount for the same purpose? In fact, it would enhance gameplay mechanics, by discouraging 50+ zergs, both in Champ trains, and WvW, but only if there were less waypoints.

Is this what GW2 has become? Is it any wonder the MMO genre population laughs at the mindless zombie zergs in GW2? They have a point. It requires no thought. Just do EotM for proof.

Thank you

nexxe.7081:

All waypoints do, is encourage people to use Swiftness Boons, instead of mounts. Why go through all the trouble of switching out weapons. traits, and utilities, when one can use a mount for the same purpose? In fact, it would enhance gameplay mechanics, by discouraging 50+ zergs, both in Champ trains, and WvW, but only if there were less waypoints.

Actually, waypoints encourage me to… USE WAYPOINTS! It’s weird how it works that way! And seriously, less waypoints in WvW? What, 3 is too many for you when you’ve waypointed all the keeps in your BL? Or 1 when you haven’t waypointed any?

Counterpoint to your “discourage 50+ zergs” argument — you stick mounts in there, you just get 50+ people on a horse, or a griffon, or whateverthehell they’re riding. WvW maps are tiny, so getting 50 people across the map without a waypoint is trivial, and if you add mounts, even less trivial. Champ trains? Well, if you’re on a mount, you’re going faster, right? How is that any different from a waypoint? Boss zergs? Doesn’t matter, they’re on a fixed, timed, rotation.

I doubt you’ve ever stepped a single foot in WvW if you think it needs less waypoints or people somehow already have trouble getting from one place to another without riding a friggin dragon or… whatever. Where’s that beating a dead horse .gif when you need it?

And the second they make mounts something sold in the gem store, it’d be the second that 3/4 the game’s population uninstalls. I suppose that does solve your zerg problem, though.

nexxe.7081:

Nerelith.7360:

nexxe.7081:

Let’s take a poll, whether it’s not scientific or not.
http://strawpoll.me/2312877

Let’s Not and say we did. This is Not about how many of the 3 % of the playerbase that bothers to Post on the forums favors speed-boost mounts or not.

we are not indicative of the opinions of the 97 % that play the game as if the forums did not exist.

What the pro-mount side needs is to provide compelling reasons. And what the anti-mount side needs is to not allow the pro-mount side to distract attention away from the fact that they are not providing compelling arguments for their proposition.

We have yet to see compelling arguments. Just distractions.

There have been compelling reasons, but you choose to ignore them, because you are ideologically driven against them.

Revenue for Anet.

Anet has armor and weapon skins for revenue, they do Not need to introduce mounts for revenue.

Immersion.

Immersion means different things to different people, and it is hard to talk about it. it may be your reason for wanting mounts, it is not a reason for providing them.

Cosmetics (such as the broom).

There are plenty of Cosmetics options in game, there is no need to redesign the game and Introduce speed boost mounts for cosmetics. Mounts are unecessary, and not worth the time and effort for cosmetics, since Anet already has armor skins, and weapon skins for that purpose. This is again " I want it." Not " This is why it would be good for the game to provide it."

Less reliance on constantly switching out weapons, traits, and utilities for Swiftness Boons.

This sounds Like you do not wish to play the game the developers have provided. Swapping weapons runes, sigils, traits, and skills, IS this game’s design. To get one benefit, In this case speed boost, you need to give up another.

If you do not wish to, then you do not wish to play THIS game, and you seek to turn THIS game into another game. maybe you should simply play another game? One with speed boost mounts?

Enhanced traveling options.

This is again.." I want"… you want more travelling options. These are not compelling reasons why Anet should give you the travelling options you are asking for.." tied to a mount"

Now, let’s look at the other side of the argument, “we already have waypoints!” Yes, very compelling. lol.

We do not need any compelling arguments since we are not asking for a change in the game. We do not need to give reasons to compell Anet to do anything, so we do not need a single solitary compelling reason. The only reason we really need to give is:

" We are content with Anet’s decision to not provide speed-boost mounts"

All waypoints do, is encourage people to use Swiftness Boons, instead of mounts. Why go through all the trouble of switching out weapons. traits, and utilities, when one can use a mount for the same purpose?

See above. These are the choices that Anet wants us to make… they want us to go through all the trouble of switching out weapons, traits, and utilities. If you do not wish to play the game that Anet has developed no one is forcing you to. But that doesn’t mean that the game needs to be changed to something else so you are happy. Maybe you would be happier playing a game that has speed boost mounts?

In fact, it would enhance gameplay mechanics, by discouraging 50+ zergs, both in Champ trains, and WvW, but only if there were less waypoints.

Is this what GW2 has become? Is it any wonder the MMO genre population laughs at the mindless zombie zergs in GW2? They have a point. It requires no thought. Just do EotM for proof.

Opinion.

None of the above are reasons why Anet needs to grant you mounts.

Although I’ve thoroughly enjoyed mounts in other games, I’m not sure I see the need for them in this game. Despite many of the maps being rather large, there are so many waypoints that it doesn’t really matter. I was stunned the first time I saw how many waypoints on average are in a map (on top of the fact that you can click-waypoint from anywhere).

I think the worst inconvenience I’ve faced so far is having to run a little extra because a waypoint I wanted to port to was contested. Aside from that, it seems to me that mounts would just trivialize what is already largely trivial.

nexxe.7081:

Nerelith.7360:

nexxe.7081:

Let’s take a poll, whether it’s not scientific or not.
http://strawpoll.me/2312877

Let’s Not and say we did. This is Not about how many of the 3 % of the playerbase that bothers to Post on the forums favors speed-boost mounts or not.

we are not indicative of the opinions of the 97 % that play the game as if the forums did not exist.

What the pro-mount side needs is to provide compelling reasons. And what the anti-mount side needs is to not allow the pro-mount side to distract attention away from the fact that they are not providing compelling arguments for their proposition.

We have yet to see compelling arguments. Just distractions.

There have been compelling reasons, but you choose to ignore them, because you are ideologically driven against them.

Revenue for Anet.
Immersion.
Cosmetics (such as the broom).
Less reliance on constantly switching out weapons, traits, and utilities for Swiftness Boons.
Enhanced traveling options.

Now, let’s look at the other side of the argument, “we already have waypoints!” Yes, very compelling. lol.

All waypoints do, is encourage people to use Swiftness Boons, instead of mounts. Why go through all the trouble of switching out weapons. traits, and utilities, when one can use a mount for the same purpose? In fact, it would enhance gameplay mechanics, by discouraging 50+ zergs, both in Champ trains, and WvW, but only if there were less waypoints.

Is this what GW2 has become? Is it any wonder the MMO genre population laughs at the mindless zombie zergs in GW2? They have a point. It requires no thought. Just do EotM for proof.

1. Hmmm revenue for Anet – they tested the waters with the broom and drill and I guess not enough people bought them because we sure haven’t had any more
2. Immersion? Someone riding around on whatever lore breaking creature would break my immersion.
3. Cosmetics (broom) see the first point – hell the 2nd one too.
4. Less reliance on switching weapons/traits/utilities – Class balance
5. Enhanced traveling options – perhaps you should explain this a bit more because it sounds like “I want” to me.

@Nerelith: It seems like you’re talking to a realtor that is trying to sell you the house he has on the market while standing at the door of the one you already live in, happily. He then tells you you’re unreasonable for not buying his house on his terms and you should compromise, at least.

This has been the state of this ‘debate’ for two years now and it hasn’t really gone anywhere. Your points are very valid and I agree with most of them. Especially the one where your point is that you have no obligation to make a valid point and it is up to the people trying to make drastic changes to the entire games fundemental structure to come up with evidence to support their own ends. Like you, I have yet to see this happen other than strawmen and bait-and-switch tactics (hey there are golems in WvW and there are Broom toys.)

Dead horses don’t mak good mounts… O.o

1. I don’t see mounts in the game. Or rather, animals that would work well at mounts.

But…

2. I don’t like people warping out in the middle of saying something to them. That is my biggest dislike of waypoints. 50 people killing a champ… Poof, none left! Three people tactically battling out an event, poof instantly they are “who knows where”.

That’s what I dislike about warping.

Nerelith.7360:

Opinion.

None of the above are reasons why Anet needs to grant you mounts.

Okay, so you want to settle for mediocrity, instead of enhancing the gameplay, which could make GW2 even better. At least admit that, because that’s what you are saying. This is why even developers hate their own fanboys, because they try to defend the inexcusable, while others try to be constructive for the betterment of the game.

It’s ironic, that waypoints were supposed to lessen the burdens of travel, and be more convenient, when in fact, they are less convenient in how players travel. Switching out weapons, traits, and sigils for Swiftness boons, everytime for traveling, isn’t convenient at all. It’s an inconvenience of flawed gameplay design. Rumor has it, that the next feature pack will introduce saved builds, such as those found in SPvP. If true, that destroys your whole argument that this is how Anet wants the game to be played. In fact, the SPvP builds destroys your entire argument by itself. Anet didn’t want players to constantly switch out their traits and sigils, etc., because it is inconvenient.

You know you’ve lost the argument when you resort to telling others not to play the game, even when they offer valid reasons as to why the current game isn’t enjoyable to either them, or others, but still want to offer solutions for a better game. It sounds like the old argument, “go back to wow!”, which is nothing but a shallow attempt to defend their argument.

Nerelith, thats nonsense, only because ANet has already something they can sell doesn’t stop a company to invent new things they can sell too to make even more profit.

Thats like saying that McDonald’s can’t ever bring in a new sort of hamburger with different sauces, different food inside and so on, because they sell already Hamburgers oO

This is no compelling argument :P Thats the big advantage of a Gemstore that sells digital content. The owner of the shop can add whenever they want completely new digital content and the owner is absolute free to add into his shop, whatever the shop owner wants to sell something new, because digital content can be created at will, whenever wanted to add something new, if its needed to make money with it.
That’s regardless of it, if that digital item is just something new of something already existing, or if it is maybe a completely new different type of digital item, like Mount Skins would be.

Nobody stops ANet to implement whenever they want something completely new into the Shop. They aren#t forced to stick onto only certain thigns forever, only because its something they can sell already >.>

We get it, that you want ANet to priorize their time and ressources on things like Bug Fixes, Class Balancing and such type of things first, but that are things, that Anet does anyways with every single patch, most of it through Stealth Changes even completely unannounced and not mentioned in the Patch Notes in regard of Bug Fixes, unless its handling about a game breaking major bug that needs to be mentioned that it got fixed to inform the players about it.

But those things, that you want here rather personally are no compelling reason for Anet not to come up also constantly with new content.
It’ what Anet has to do to keep their players interested to make money, because GW2 just lives from its Gemstore. If the Gemstore doesn’t run, then this Game is dead basically, unless Anet draws the first Expansion out of nowhere out of their magic hats

GW2 isn’t anymore GW1 in its first years, where every half year came out a boxed new part of the game out, where the game mostly financialized itself only through the game sales, than through its rather inferior ingame shop compared to GW2’s Gemstore.

Orpheal.8263:

Nerelith.7360:

Opinion.

None of the above are reasons why Anet needs to grant you mounts.

Okay, so you want to settle for mediocrity, instead of enhancing the gameplay, which could make GW2 even better. At least admit that, because that’s what you are saying. This is why even developers hate their own fanboys, because they try to defend the inexcusable, while others try to be constructive for the betterment of the game.

Well it is only your personal opinion that mounts would make the game better. it is mine that mounts would make the game worse.

As for calling me a fanboy. Just a few Months ago I was advocating people stop shopping at the gift store til the developers came up with a way to nerf serker’s and make other armor, or skill selections more viable in dungeons. So please Understand why I don’t take offense at you calling me a fanboy, since it doesn’t apply, and I know better.

It’s ironic, that waypoints were supposed to lessen the burdens of travel, and be more convenient, when in fact, they are less convenient in how players travel. Switching out weapons, traits, and sigils for Swiftness boons, everytime for traveling, isn’t convenient at all.

Strawman. This was never about convenience it is about class balance.

It’s an inconvenience of flawed gameplay design.

Opinion. Not mine.

Rumor has it, that the next feature pack will introduce saved builds, such as those found in SPvP. If true, that destroys your whole argument that this is how Anet wants the game to be played. In fact, the SPvP builds destroys your entire argument by itself. Anet didn’t want players to constantly switch out their traits and sigils, etc., because it is inconvenient.

Rumor says a lot of things, I don’t waste my time on Rumor. But… if they do institute saved builds where does your argument for speed boost mounts go then?

You know you’ve lost the argument when you resort to telling others not to play the game, even when they offer valid reasons as to why the current game isn’t enjoyable to either them, or others, but still want to offer solutions for a better game. It sounds like the old argument, “go back to wow!”, which is nothing but a shallow attempt to defend their argument.

Well you may see it that way. The way I see it is… This game as it currently is, is Not enjoyable to you and players like you. It is enjoyable to me, and others like me.

You are not offering solutions that better the game in my opinion, just make the game more enjoyable for yoiu, and less enjoyable for me.

The difference is… the game is already the game it is, which is not enjoyable for you.

Now you do have two options:

1. Try to change the game to the game you would find enjoyable…. except then it becomes Unenjoyable for me, so I will advocate strenuously to oppose those changes.

1. leave and play another game.

To be honest if I had to choose from the above I would prefer if you left the game. I don’t prefer this because I " lost the argument" see for me to “lose” you have to MAKE an argument to begin with. And you have not done so.

As to suggesting you play another game, it’s mostly because the way you say

the current game isn’t enjoyable to either them, or others

This really is usually a reason to go play something else. The game is fine as it is for me and others like me. To change it it would mean Anet needs to make an investment in capital, to bring about the changes you would Like them to, and yet you do not provide any compelling reasons why they should.

Now…since it seems you are not happy with the game Anet has chosen to provide…. maybe another game would be more pleasureable? One that has speed Boost mounts. And yes, you are right WoW does have speed-boost mounts.

Make valid compelling arguments, and we can discuss them. keep resorting to distractions, strawmenr, bait and switch etc…. all you do is bring glaring attention to the fact that you maybe may not have any valid compelling arguments, and that is why you do not make them.

You basically are saying " this is a list of How I would benefit from having a speed-boost mount" or another version of " it would be cool. I want it."

This is all we have heard for 2 years.

I think you need better arguments, because those are old, tired, and not compelling anyone.

Orpheal.8263:

Nerelith, thats nonsense, only because ANet has already something they can sell doesn’t stop a company to invent new things they can sell too to make even more profit.

Thats like saying that McDonald’s can’t ever bring in a new sort of hamburger with different sauces, different food inside and so on, because they sell already Hamburgers oO

This is no compelling argument :P Thats the big advantage of a Gemstore that sells digital content. The owner of the shop can add whenever they want completely new digital content and the owner is absolute free to add into his shop, whatever the shop owner wants to sell something new, because digital content can be created at will, whenever wanted to add something new, if its needed to make money with it.
That’s regardless of it, if that digital item is just something new of something already existing, or if it is maybe a completely new different type of digital item, like Mount Skins would be.

Nobody stops ANet to implement whenever they want something completely new into the Shop. They aren#t forced to stick onto only certain thigns forever, only because its something they can sell already >.>

We get it, that you want ANet to priorize their time and ressources on things like Bug Fixes, Class Balancing and such type of things first, but that are things, that Anet does anyways with every single patch, most of it through Stealth Changes even completely unannounced and not mentioned in the Patch Notes in regard of Bug Fixes, unless its handling about a game breaking major bug that needs to be mentioned that it got fixed to inform the players about it.

But those things, that you want here rather personally are no compelling reason for Anet not to come up also constantly with new content.
It’ what Anet has to do to keep their players interested to make money, because GW2 just lives from its Gemstore. If the Gemstore doesn’t run, then this Game is dead basically, unless Anet draws the first Expansion out of nowhere out of their magic hats

GW2 isn’t anymore GW1 in its first years, where every half year came out a boxed new part of the game out, where the game mostly financialized itself only through the game sales, than through its rather inferior ingame shop compared to GW2’s Gemstore.

Where are your compelling arguments for why Anet needs to pour Money, time, and energy into these speed-boost mounts?

Revenue?

Speed boost is not the same for each class. Some classes have only one speed boost skill…it may be on a weapon, it may be part of a utility, it might be both, it may be a speed boost that you can grant to others.

Speed boost is also balanced On runes, sigils, and trait choices.

THIS is the game Anet made. To put a speed boost mount On the Gem store, they need more compelling reasons than Revenue, because they would have to find a way to redo, all the work they already put and that has evolved over 2 years, for speed boost across all the classes.

I seriously doubt they would do all that…just to put a speed boost mount on the gem store that would generate a LOT of controversy in their player base…. when they can generate as much cash from Putting up a couple of armor skins, NOT re-invent the game, not kitten off anyone, and Not spend any resources beyond those needed to design new armor skins.

You know why you will not find Lobster at McDonald’s?

1. They know their customers. They know how much they are willing to spend.
2. They know How much it would cost to provide Lobsters everyday…chances are…it may not generate as much revenue to be worth the time, energy and resources they would have to devote to it’s preperation, and

3. it doesn’t fit their brand. They may offer new burgers with new sauces…. Just as Anet provides new armor and weapon skins, with new looks.

They don’t provide a food item that doesn’t fit their brand.

Lobsters don’t with McDonald’s, and Speed Boost mounts don’t with Anet.

We need you to provide compelling reasons… This form of Revenue, is not compelling.

Lazuli.2098:

MrIllusion.5304:

…
4) Screen Clutter, Griefing, Lag

You’re kidding right? Does the speed boost in the city make us any more griefers? Any more laggy? We already have swiftness boon in the game. Has anyone blamed lag on that?
…

Then you would be alright with invisible mounts? Or maybe the mount would disappear outside of towns, forts, camps, or any map with more than a certain number of players. You see it’s not the speed boost that’s the problem, it’s the screen clutter and graphics burden.

Why is this even an issue?

We already have tonics and minis and costumes and costume brawls.

Also, the SHOW LOWEST CHARACTER MODEL LIMIT setting.

MrIllusion.5304:

Lazuli.2098:

MrIllusion.5304:

…
4) Screen Clutter, Griefing, Lag

You’re kidding right? Does the speed boost in the city make us any more griefers? Any more laggy? We already have swiftness boon in the game. Has anyone blamed lag on that?
…

Then you would be alright with invisible mounts? Or maybe the mount would disappear outside of towns, forts, camps, or any map with more than a certain number of players. You see it’s not the speed boost that’s the problem, it’s the screen clutter and graphics burden.

Why is this even an issue?

We already have tonics and minis and costumes and costume brawls.

Also, the SHOW LOWEST CHARACTER MODEL LIMIT setting.

Because some of us do not wish to see mounts. it’s that simple. I do not wish to see mounts. So either your mount is Invisible, or it is toggleable so i do Not see it and can turn off the " show mounts" feature, and cosmetics only.

or.

The speed boost the mount gains is Non-permanent, and Just a duplication of the speed boost it might get from One of your skills. taking up a utility slot. So as to not undo all the class balancing and rune and sigil balancing, and trait balancing Anet has done over two years. And also invisible, so I do not see it, or toggleable, so i can turn off the " show Mounts" feature.

also it needs to not use up any time, money, energy or resources that could be put to better use elsewhere.

Oh if when you are riding your Invisible mount, you look strange…floating 3 feet off the ground…. all bets are off, that ruins my immersion.

The wiki was doctored and falsified by a naysayer to bleed out certain wording of what was actually said so that when people read it they thought they was reading truthful statements made by Anet.
If fact the statements were from a Pre-Beta interview with Guild Wars 2 Lead Designer Eric Flannum. The question was asked and answered like this.
Will be there any other kind of traveling across long distances apart from asura gates (e.g. ship)?
Eric: “Any of the major (non-capturable) waypoints that a player has unlocked can be travelled to regardless of the distance involved. Prices do vary depending on distance though, and asura gates are free, so a player might find it advantageous to use asura gates in some circumstances. Other than waypoints and asura gates, there will be no other methods of long distance travel such as mounts, ships, etc in Guild Wars 2 upon initial release.”
here is the link to the original content of that interview.
http://guildwars2.cz/otazky-odpovedi-pro-guildwars2-cz/2/
You will notice that Eric never says No, which is exactly how the wiki reads and also he notes that there will not be any addition long distance travel upon initial release.
This says right here that there could be mounts and low and behold there are mounts be it cosmetic, or combat dedicated to the area you use it in.

Here is the reason why I don’t think that we will ever get speed boost mounts in the traditional sense that everyone associates with them. This also proves that my ideas are more plausible and compelling to make an addition to the game.
Guild Wars 2 Game Director Colin Johanson’s in this interview @ 11:20 You Hear It Straight from Horses Mouth, so to speak!(pun intended).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z33KFeMRMA

Nerelith you will also notice in this video Colin’s compelling reason that it could be possible with a combat mount system, like the one that I suggested, is that it would be AWESOME & SUPER COOL. I think my work is done here.

MrIllusion.5304:

…

Why is this even an issue?

Because mounts take up visual space on the screen.

I played another MMO recently that had mounts and found it very irritating when I couldn’t even see the quest-giver NPC because everyone’s mounts were blocking the view. I can imagine battle, especially in close quarters, where you can’t see the intended target because of the fat kitten of someone’s mount in front of you. Battle is sometimes confusing enough without adding mounts and all their animations.

We already have tonics and minis and costumes and costume brawls.

Relevance? I don’t use minis because I don’t like the visual clutter. They’re distracting. Mounts being bigger would be worse.

Also, the SHOW LOWEST CHARACTER MODEL LIMIT setting.

There will still be added resource usage on servers, clients and networks to accommodate the addition of mounts. This added burden would result in more frequent lag problems especially for those with lower end computers and slower networks.

Nerelith.7360:

You want change you need to provide compelling reasons, if the reasons you provide can be shot down because the mechanics you want are already there, or because the extras that come with mounts would Not be worth the time, energy or resources… or are already there, then your reason is not compelling.

This!
So much of this!

Nerelith.7360:

I see the irony escapes you.

We do not need arguments against speed boost mounts, we just need to say :

“we are content with the game as it is, we are content with Anet’s continued decision to not provide speed boost mounts.”

What a dinosaur. When GW2 launched Anet was all about innovation and breaking the mold. I listed all the features they didn’t have at launch but were added in anyway after receiving player feedback.

So no, change is a fact of life. We can choose to steer that change or get left behind.

Unless you are so satisfied with the game “as is” that you do not use:

- the wardrobe system
- ascended gear
- the bank tab from craftman’s station
- all the skills/traits that were rebalanced
- all the items that had reworked icons
- ascended items changed to account bound

I guess if precursors ever became craftable, you’d have screwed yourself out of it too, so don’t let us catch you using that new feature.

In fact, stop playing the new LS episodes too, since that was a commitment they made after launch.

So let’s see what “compelling arguments” you have for not introducing this change:

Nerelith.7360:

Now you do have two options:

1. Try to change the game to the game you would find enjoyable…. except then it becomes Unenjoyable for me, so I will advocate strenuously to oppose those changes.

1. leave and play another game.

Nerelith.7360:

If you do not wish to, then you do not wish to play THIS game, and you seek to turn THIS game into another game. maybe you should simply play another game? One with speed boost mounts?

Nerelith.7360:

From what you have said, it appears this game is Not for you. maybe you should play another game, maybe one with mounts? I can recommend World of Warcraft highly. That game has plenty of mounts, and they come in different colors.

PS: How exactly would one show they oppose mounts with their wallet? I am very curious.

Use their Money to NOT Buy a Mount? I am doing that now.

Mr Illusion Just because Anet has changed the game before… and added features that were not in the game before, while showing how innovative Anet is, and showing the willingness to try new things……

None of that is compelling argument for mounts.

You seem to be saying " well, they added new things before."

I agree. That is an awesome thing about Anet. I applaud that as well.

But You need to provide compelling reasons for why MOUNTS specifically would be a GOOD change.

What benefit do mounts bring to the game, that is not already IN the game… that cannot be experienced with the tools we already have… and…

Is adding these extras a good use of the developers time, energy and resources… without negatively impacting the other players that do not want mounts?

You need both. Otherwise it’s just a " well, it’s cool, I want it, and if it messes up your play, then sucks to be you..I want it"

YOU need to provide compelling reasons for why mounts specifically benefit the game… not just you personally, or players like you. What do mounts bring to the game that is a benefit…. and…. is worth the developers drawing resources from some other aspect of the game…. to deliver it…. and… does not negatively impact any other player’s gametime?

I know I keep repeating myself, I do so, because… the players that want mounts continue to distract… continue to bring strawman arguments, making false equivalences, bait and switch…. and what you refuse to do is… provide compelling arguments.

After 2 years , no compelling arguments. Can it be because maybe there aren’t any?

MrIllusion.5304:

So let’s see what “compelling arguments” you have for not introducing this change:

I see you are trying to put those of us that do not wish mounts back on the defensive to distract from the fact that your side doesn’t have compelling arguments for mounts.

We that do not want mounts are not trying to compell Anet to do anything.

We that do not want mounts are content for them to leave the game as it is.

Therefore:

We do not need to provide a single, solitary, compelling argument for non-change.

it would be Like Looking at a dog that is Just sitting there and saying " keep doing nothing!" " see how well trained he is?"

The only argument we need is….

" We are content with Anet’s decision to continue not providing speed boost mounts"

MrIllusion.5304:

Because compromising my build to include perma 25% run speed is stupid.

Because paying through the nose for Traveler’s Runes, which provide little benefit other than perma 25% run speed, is stupid.

Because sacrificing a slot on my skill bar for perma 25% run speed is stupid.

This isn’t about having more maneuverability. People are doing this to move around faster.

For as much as this led to my banner warrior, that’s exactly it. Traveling speed (not movement in combat) was the entire reason I built the character that way. Maximized boon duration, picked traits for warhorn cooldowns, so I could be perma-swift, then dug into Discipline for the melee-move +25%. And there are still characters that don’t get that option. It’s pretty slack.
I probably would have built him completely differently if I had some kind of generic elite Traveling Signet or utility skill that I could swap around. I’m not advocating mounts, necessarily, but at least a lore-appropriate way to equalize traveling speed for out of combat.

The real problem with MrIllusion assumptions, is he does not see that builds, in GW2, are as much about compromise as it is what you are trying to accomplish. Adding in mounts would negate many of the current builds used in WvW and PvE. Skills such as the Necro’s Signet of the Locust, would be useless. There would be many traits negated by this also.

This is why adding in mounts is such a huge deal and chore – it really does affect the balance in GW2 and might totally unbalance the game. Games that balance both PvE and PvP have a knife-edge balance that if pushed one way or the other causes dire consequences. A.Net had this problem with GW1, then they added in both the Ritualist and Assassin professions. They never could get back the balance they had at the beginning of the game and they did admit that.

Rauderi, there are superior Signets of the Traveler – so yes there are signets that help with boosts. Putting in mounts would negate all of that also. As I said, builds are about compromise and balance – the player has to choose what is important to them in a build. You want speed boost, well there is your compromise. You want DPS power, well that is a compromise too. Adding in mounts would diminish that balance that is already in the game.

Rauderi.8706:

MrIllusion.5304:

Because compromising my build to include perma 25% run speed is stupid.

Because paying through the nose for Traveler’s Runes, which provide little benefit other than perma 25% run speed, is stupid.

Because sacrificing a slot on my skill bar for perma 25% run speed is stupid.

This isn’t about having more maneuverability. People are doing this to move around faster.

For as much as this led to my banner warrior, that’s exactly it. Traveling speed (not movement in combat) was the entire reason I built the character that way. Maximized boon duration, picked traits for warhorn cooldowns, so I could be perma-swift, then dug into Discipline for the melee-move +25%. And there are still characters that don’t get that option. It’s pretty slack.
I probably would have built him completely differently if I had some kind of generic elite Traveling Signet or utility skill that I could swap around. I’m not advocating mounts, necessarily, but at least a lore-appropriate way to equalize traveling speed for out of combat.

Equalized run speed is not the game that Anet made. Anet has chosen to make speed-boost an element around which to balance classes, in or out of combat.

some classes only have run-speed On a weapon, some only have it on a utility, some on both. Some can only give run-speed to themselves, some can grant it to those around them.

Anet has chosen to make speed-boost an element around which to balance runes and sigils.

Anet has chosen to make speed-boost an element around which to balance traits.

A lot of developer time, has been put, to the purpose of balancing speed boost among all of the above.

To provide a generic item..a mount, that equalizes speed boost is to seek to undo the limitations the developers have put in place.

nexxe.7081:

Nerelith.7360:

Opinion.

None of the above are reasons why Anet needs to grant you mounts.

Okay, so you want to settle for mediocrity, instead of enhancing the gameplay, which could make GW2 even better. At least admit that, because that’s what you are saying. This is why even developers hate their own fanboys, because they try to defend the inexcusable, while others try to be constructive for the betterment of the game.

I actually laughed out loud when I read this. Settling for mediocrity? Really? Are you seriously saying that adding mounts would make GW2 the pinacle of MMO game play? Why should Nerelith admit to anything of the sort? She isn’t settling for mediocrity. She has very clearly pointed out that she doesn’t want mounts. That isn’t settling for anything. It is in her opinion (and mine) that it would actually cheapen the game.

The part that kept me laughing is that when someone, in this case Nerelith, point out that they enjoy something the way Anet has made, those people cannot think of valid arguments so they start calling them fanboys or white knights, or carebears, or Anet groupies or any other host of like names. If your arguments were solid, you would never resort to name calling. Unless you are under 13 years old and then you shouldn’t be playing this game according to the rules.

nexxe.7081:

It’s ironic, that waypoints were supposed to lessen the burdens of travel, and be more convenient, when in fact, they are less convenient in how players travel. Switching out weapons, traits, and sigils for Swiftness boons, everytime for traveling, isn’t convenient at all. It’s an inconvenience of flawed gameplay design. Rumor has it, that the next feature pack will introduce saved builds, such as those found in SPvP. If true, that destroys your whole argument that this is how Anet wants the game to be played. In fact, the SPvP builds destroys your entire argument by itself. Anet didn’t want players to constantly switch out their traits and sigils, etc., because it is inconvenient.

Actually saving builds is just a feature from GW1 that hasn’t been implemented yet.

Why should everything be ‘convenient?’ As was stated a couple of times in other posts, if you want speed in your build it is a positive feature that has to be sacrificed for another positive feature. If I got every single thing I wanted in a build the skill bar would be 25 skills long. You could just about have everything that way. You wouldn’t have to sacrifice anything and everything would be convenient to me. That isn’t the way the game works. You design the best build you can with the parameters you’ve been given. We all have to deal with it.

nexxe.7081:

You know you’ve lost the argument when you resort to telling others not to play the game, even when they offer valid reasons as to why the current game isn’t enjoyable to either them, or others, but still want to offer solutions for a better game. It sounds like the old argument, “go back to wow!”, which is nothing but a shallow attempt to defend their argument.

Two things are wrong with this. 1. You haven’t lost the argument in any way by suggesting such. Because the pro mount people are so passionate about their position they lose sight of the fact that mounts don’t exist in GW2. Suggesting that they play something that gives them what they want is just being practical since they are not getting that here. 2. As I and others have pointed out ad nauseum, no valid or compelling arguments have truly been made for mounts. I have see these so-called arguments in favor of mounts constantly debunked as “I want” or “It would be cool”. Even the added revenue argument was countered above.

Dusty Moon.4382:

The real problem with MrIllusion assumptions, is he does not see that builds, in GW2, are as much about compromise as it is what you are trying to accomplish. Adding in mounts would negate many of the current builds used in WvW and PvE. Skills such as the Necro’s Signet of the Locust, would be useless. There would be many traits negated by this also.

This is why adding in mounts is such a huge deal and chore – it really does affect the balance in GW2 and might totally unbalance the game. Games that balance both PvE and PvP have a knife-edge balance that if pushed one way or the other causes dire consequences. A.Net had this problem with GW1, then they added in both the Ritualist and Assassin professions. They never could get back the balance they had at the beginning of the game and they did admit that.

Rauderi, there are superior Signets of the Traveler – so yes there are signets that help with boosts. Putting in mounts would negate all of that also

You are wrong about me assuming.

The concept of adding Traveler Runes and Speed Signets and Banners isn’t something ground-breaking. We already know it exists.

The speed boosts they provide do not add to build diversity. We do not have a meta where we deck out in swiftness and speed boosts so that we can kite specific mobs, while crippling them (maybe it exists in PvP?). The current PvE meta does not have any of that.

The idea that removing all those speed boosts from skills/traits is going to kill build diversity is a moot point. Those skills/traits serve only one function in PvE. To get from point A to point B faster. If this is an issue in certain types of gameplay then normalise for that. It’s not uncommon to prevent mounting up in some MMOs in PvP or whatever content where higher speed is an unfair advantage.

Increasing speed across the board makes it so that Signet of Locusts and Warrior Banner Skill #3 and Guardian Staff #3 can be freed up in lieu of something that synergises with your build.

In other words, if speed were normalised, those speed enhancing skills/traits/food/whatever can be revamped and changed to something more meaningful than a QoL feature. This adds to build diversity.

Nerelith, you start to contradict yourself, because you are asking for benefits regarding mounts, that should be compelling, but aalso you want them not to have any negative effects if you choose to not use, so that non users would basically not draw the short draw of missing out new content/rewards ect. )
All I see you saying out here is only:

This is not compelling…that is not compelling, this is also not compelling, how could you just believe that this could be compelling at all, shame on you, Try better next time.

The time and reccources of the Devs that are so prescious to YOU areis something that just you and the other Anti Mounters want only to see getting used for something different as priority. These things get done somewhen and what then??

All other of your concerns can be broken down tothe technical side, thats easily solved by making Mounts just invisible if you want.

If there even exists anything, that is compelling enough for you to accept it as a valid reason, then I’m 100% sure, you’d be instantly be against them again, because of realizing that the chances are good that this compelling argument would have the hook, that you’d think it would force you again to use Mounts to get all, what Mount Users get.
Besides this, there is no better compelling reason for ANet, than to make Money with this Feature, maybe lure with it also new players to the game which brings naturally perhaps even more revenue as every new player is also a potential new user of the Gemstore.

Mount Haters can just play the game further, as usual with deativated Mounts.
Anet makes their Money from Mount Lovers.
Mount Lovers get their Travel Alternative, that isn’t immersion breaking, is a nice prestige alternative for all those, that dislike legendary weapons, adds nice new roleplaying options, adds perhaps later new features to improve the Combat System, because Colin Johansson self said 2013, that if they would ever go so far to implement Mounts, that they would have to be unique and not just only for Speed Boosts.

Just as proof that ANet can implement Mounts in a much better way, than everyone else before them would be already a first step towards that, which should be a compelling enough reason for Anet to say, that they want to work on that project to say at the end:

“We have done the current most best and innovative Mount System in the whole current MMORPG genre, which is from all game the only one, that really feels 100% optional, going even so far, that you can make them invisible, if you don’t like them and if you want to get to play the best Mount System you have just to play Guild Wars 2”

This are all compelling reasons for adding Mounts, as they would improve the fun of this game and everything that can improve the fun with the game for many people, while not disturbing those people that dislike that feature, is 100% optional and I don’t care from this point on anymore, if you think, thats not a compelling reason, because for you it just seems that nothing is a compelling reason.

Mounts are a tool for adding more comfort and convenience for traveling inside of the maps without to have the reliance on permanently switching out skills, runes and traits, which becomes just annoying and just encourages the player to be lazy and just click at that waypoint to simply have not that hassle to permanently change your class build every day.

If that should be the concept of Anet that we should do so, then this is simple just bad not not very well thought out game design and needs to be reworked. PERIOD!
This rework has nothing to do with it wanting to change GW2 into a complete different game.
It has to do only with the clear and simple wish, that some traveling gameplay mechanisms should provide alternatives for those that like to have alternatives over Waypoints and having to use Swiftness Boons ect. in permanent exchange , which should make the game just more comfortable and convenient through changing not well thought out mechanisms out with better mechanisms, that would be Mounts – all this while that system should still not be able to replace the Waypoint System and thats the case here with Mounts.
They will never become anyhow superior to just waypointing yourself in a matter of seconds with a teleport to an other map, whats another point, why Mounts will always be 100% optional for everybody.

MrIllusion.5304:

Dusty Moon.4382:

The real problem with MrIllusion assumptions, is he does not see that builds, in GW2, are as much about compromise as it is what you are trying to accomplish. Adding in mounts would negate many of the current builds used in WvW and PvE. Skills such as the Necro’s Signet of the Locust, would be useless. There would be many traits negated by this also.

This is why adding in mounts is such a huge deal and chore – it really does affect the balance in GW2 and might totally unbalance the game. Games that balance both PvE and PvP have a knife-edge balance that if pushed one way or the other causes dire consequences. A.Net had this problem with GW1, then they added in both the Ritualist and Assassin professions. They never could get back the balance they had at the beginning of the game and they did admit that.

Rauderi, there are superior Signets of the Traveler – so yes there are signets that help with boosts. Putting in mounts would negate all of that also

You are wrong about me assuming.

The concept of adding Traveler Runes and Speed Signets and Banners isn’t something ground-breaking. We already know it exists.

The speed boosts they provide do not add to build diversity. We do not have a meta where we deck out in swiftness and speed boosts so that we can kite specific mobs, while crippling them (maybe it exists in PvP?). The current PvE meta does not have any of that.

The idea that removing all those speed boosts from skills/traits is going to kill build diversity is a moot point. Those skills/traits serve only one function in PvE. To get from point A to point B faster. If this is an issue in certain types of gameplay then normalise for that. It’s not uncommon to prevent mounting up in some MMOs in PvP or whatever content where higher speed is an unfair advantage.

Increasing speed across the board makes it so that Signet of Locusts and Warrior Banner Skill #3 and Guardian Staff #3 can be freed up in lieu of something that synergises with your build.

In other words, if speed were normalised, those speed enhancing skills/traits/food/whatever can be revamped and changed to something more meaningful than a QoL feature. This adds to build diversity.

Sorry, but they do add diversity. It is this compromise of the build, that we see variety. Example using banners not only gives the player, using them a speed boost, but others in the area, an AoE skill. Take that away and that is one less skill that can be used. This is also why GW2, as well as GW1 have only 10 skill slots (although in GW2 5 of the slots are determined by you weapon(s) of choice – and that too is a choice). You are arguing throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Putting in mounts would negate MANY of the skills that are already in the game and they would have to be redone and that would take the balance currently in game and throw it out the window. That balance would be hard to get back, let alone in sPvP and WvW.

The point is, speed is a choice. It is one characteristic that a profession can have. It is not something that ALL should have, just like all should not have stealth. As I said, your basic premise is totally wrong.

MrIllusion.5304:

Dusty Moon.4382:

The real problem with MrIllusion assumptions, is he does not see that builds, in GW2, are as much about compromise as it is what you are trying to accomplish. Adding in mounts would negate many of the current builds used in WvW and PvE. Skills such as the Necro’s Signet of the Locust, would be useless. There would be many traits negated by this also.

This is why adding in mounts is such a huge deal and chore – it really does affect the balance in GW2 and might totally unbalance the game. Games that balance both PvE and PvP have a knife-edge balance that if pushed one way or the other causes dire consequences. A.Net had this problem with GW1, then they added in both the Ritualist and Assassin professions. They never could get back the balance they had at the beginning of the game and they did admit that.

Rauderi, there are superior Signets of the Traveler – so yes there are signets that help with boosts. Putting in mounts would negate all of that also

You are wrong about me assuming.

The concept of adding Traveler Runes and Speed Signets and Banners isn’t something ground-breaking. We already know it exists.

The speed boosts they provide do not add to build diversity. We do not have a meta where we deck out in swiftness and speed boosts so that we can kite specific mobs, while crippling them (maybe it exists in PvP?). The current PvE meta does not have any of that.

The idea that removing all those speed boosts from skills/traits is going to kill build diversity is a moot point. Those skills/traits serve only one function in PvE. To get from point A to point B faster. If this is an issue in certain types of gameplay then normalise for that. It’s not uncommon to prevent mounting up in some MMOs in PvP or whatever content where higher speed is an unfair advantage.

Increasing speed across the board makes it so that Signet of Locusts and Warrior Banner Skill #3 and Guardian Staff #3 can be freed up in lieu of something that synergises with your build.

In other words, if speed were normalised, those speed enhancing skills/traits/food/whatever can be revamped and changed to something more meaningful than a QoL feature. This adds to build diversity.

It sounds Like you do not wish to play the game that Anet has provided. You seek to undo so Much of what Anet has saught to make a balancing issue.

To accept the changes you want, to make Speed-boost mounts relevant, would be to allow the game to be changed Into a completely different game.

As such, I hate to sound repetative … and redundant…( see what I did there?) but…maube you might be happier playing a different game that has speed-boost mounts?

I know that World of warcraft has two of the things you want. it has speedboost mounts, and it has so many skill bars you can load up all of your skills, and not have to compromise for anything.

Reading your posts… it seems that the game you wish to play already exists. Ir’s simply not THIS game. Maybe it’s World of Warcraft?

Nerelith.7360:

I see you are trying to put those of us that do not wish mounts back on the defensive to distract from the fact that your side doesn’t have compelling arguments for mounts.

We that do not want mounts are not trying to compell Anet to do anything.

We that do not want mounts are content for them to leave the game as it is.

Therefore:

We do not need to provide a single, solitary, compelling argument for non-change.

it would be Like Looking at a dog that is Just sitting there and saying " keep doing nothing!" " see how well trained he is?"

The only argument we need is….

" We are content with Anet’s decision to continue not providing speed boost mounts"

I don’t claim to speak for anyone but myself, and you’d be crazy to think putting “we” gives you anymore weight than speaking for yourself.

Have fun not using any of the features I mention earlier. Cause going by your logic, we shouldn’t have asked for minis, or that monkey king tonic, or the wardrobe system, or ascended gear. All of which appeared magically without Anet putting in any work.

Because as we all know, there was absolutely no objection to Ascended gear, or Tequatl being buffed up, or Triple Wurm being introduced.

Nooooo. Those were added because every single player voted yes.

In fact you have inspired me so much that I’ll pop over to the Mesmer/Guardian/Ele forums and troll them. Because we know they haven’t released any info about balancing their traits yet. Which means they are never going to do so.

Nerelith.7360:

Reading your posts… it seems that the game you wish to play already exists. Ir’s simply not THIS game. Maybe it’s World of Warcraft?

Reading your post it seems you were completely content when Magic Find was a stat on armor. So when overwhelming player feedback requesting for Magic Find to be separated was actually implemented, what happened?

Did you rage quit and played Diablo?

Nerelith.7360:

MrIllusion.5304:

Dusty Moon.4382:

The real problem with MrIllusion assumptions, is he does not see that builds, in GW2, are as much about compromise as it is what you are trying to accomplish. Adding in mounts would negate many of the current builds used in WvW and PvE. Skills such as the Necro’s Signet of the Locust, would be useless. There would be many traits negated by this also.

This is why adding in mounts is such a huge deal and chore – it really does affect the balance in GW2 and might totally unbalance the game. Games that balance both PvE and PvP have a knife-edge balance that if pushed one way or the other causes dire consequences. A.Net had this problem with GW1, then they added in both the Ritualist and Assassin professions. They never could get back the balance they had at the beginning of the game and they did admit that.

Rauderi, there are superior Signets of the Traveler – so yes there are signets that help with boosts. Putting in mounts would negate all of that also

You are wrong about me assuming.

The concept of adding Traveler Runes and Speed Signets and Banners isn’t something ground-breaking. We already know it exists.

The speed boosts they provide do not add to build diversity. We do not have a meta where we deck out in swiftness and speed boosts so that we can kite specific mobs, while crippling them (maybe it exists in PvP?). The current PvE meta does not have any of that.

The idea that removing all those speed boosts from skills/traits is going to kill build diversity is a moot point. Those skills/traits serve only one function in PvE. To get from point A to point B faster. If this is an issue in certain types of gameplay then normalise for that. It’s not uncommon to prevent mounting up in some MMOs in PvP or whatever content where higher speed is an unfair advantage.

Increasing speed across the board makes it so that Signet of Locusts and Warrior Banner Skill #3 and Guardian Staff #3 can be freed up in lieu of something that synergises with your build.

In other words, if speed were normalised, those speed enhancing skills/traits/food/whatever can be revamped and changed to something more meaningful than a QoL feature. This adds to build diversity.

It sounds Like you do not wish to play the game that Anet has provided. You seek to undo so Much of what Anet has saught to make a balancing issue.

To accept the changes you want, to make Speed-boost mounts relevant, would be to allow the game to be changed Into a completely different game.

As such, I hate to sound repetative … and redundant…( see what I did there?) but…maube you might be happier playing a different game that has speed-boost mounts?

I know that World of warcraft has two of the things you want. it has speedboost mounts, and it has so many skill bars you can load up all of your skills, and not have to compromise for anything.

Reading your posts… it seems that the game you wish to play already exists. Ir’s simply not THIS game. Maybe it’s World of Warcraft?

It sounds Like you do not like change, you do not wish to play the game that Anet has provided. You seek to undo so Much of what Anet has sought to make a balancing issue.

Game was release and what we have now is not the same when it first came out. Since you don’t like change I will provide with other games you might like

Reading your constants copy and paste replied….it seem that the game you wish to play already exist. It is simply that this game is not for you because you don’t like change, maybe just maybe its (your constant replied goes here game)

MrIllusion.5304:

Nerelith.7360:

I see you are trying to put those of us that do not wish mounts back on the defensive to distract from the fact that your side doesn’t have compelling arguments for mounts.

We that do not want mounts are not trying to compell Anet to do anything.

We that do not want mounts are content for them to leave the game as it is.

Therefore:

We do not need to provide a single, solitary, compelling argument for non-change.

it would be Like Looking at a dog that is Just sitting there and saying " keep doing nothing!" " see how well trained he is?"

The only argument we need is….

" We are content with Anet’s decision to continue not providing speed boost mounts"

I don’t claim to speak for anyone but myself, and you’d be crazy to think putting “we” gives you anymore weight than speaking for yourself.

Have fun not using any of the features I mention earlier. Cause going by your logic, we shouldn’t have asked for minis, or that monkey king tonic, or the wardrobe system, or ascended gear. All of which appeared magically without Anet putting in any work.

Because as we all know, there was absolutely no objection to Ascended gear, or Tequatl being buffed up, or Triple Wurm being introduced.

Nooooo. Those were added because every single player voted yes.

In fact you have inspired me so much that I’ll pop over to the Mesmer/Guardian/Ele forums and troll them. Because we know they haven’t released any info about balancing their traits yet. Which means they are never going to do so.

This is a distraction. I refuse to be distracted. You poke at whether I use " we" or “I” to take away attention from the fact that you are still….

Not providing a compelling argument.

make a compelling argument for why Mounts are beneficial to the game, and are worth the developers putting time, energy and resources, and do not negatively impact the rest of the playerbase that doesn’t want mounts, that doesn’t amount to " It would be cool,, and I want it." or.." why not?"

Saying " where are your arguments against?"

I don’t need any.

" I am content with Anet’s decision to not provide speed-boost mounts"

Where are the compelling arguments for?

Leo.2641:

Nerelith.7360:

MrIllusion.5304:

Dusty Moon.4382:

The real problem with MrIllusion assumptions, is he does not see that builds, in GW2, are as much about compromise as it is what you are trying to accomplish. Adding in mounts would negate many of the current builds used in WvW and PvE. Skills such as the Necro’s Signet of the Locust, would be useless. There would be many traits negated by this also.

This is why adding in mounts is such a huge deal and chore – it really does affect the balance in GW2 and might totally unbalance the game. Games that balance both PvE and PvP have a knife-edge balance that if pushed one way or the other causes dire consequences. A.Net had this problem with GW1, then they added in both the Ritualist and Assassin professions. They never could get back the balance they had at the beginning of the game and they did admit that.

Rauderi, there are superior Signets of the Traveler – so yes there are signets that help with boosts. Putting in mounts would negate all of that also

You are wrong about me assuming.

The concept of adding Traveler Runes and Speed Signets and Banners isn’t something ground-breaking. We already know it exists.

The speed boosts they provide do not add to build diversity. We do not have a meta where we deck out in swiftness and speed boosts so that we can kite specific mobs, while crippling them (maybe it exists in PvP?). The current PvE meta does not have any of that.

The idea that removing all those speed boosts from skills/traits is going to kill build diversity is a moot point. Those skills/traits serve only one function in PvE. To get from point A to point B faster. If this is an issue in certain types of gameplay then normalise for that. It’s not uncommon to prevent mounting up in some MMOs in PvP or whatever content where higher speed is an unfair advantage.

Increasing speed across the board makes it so that Signet of Locusts and Warrior Banner Skill #3 and Guardian Staff #3 can be freed up in lieu of something that synergises with your build.

In other words, if speed were normalised, those speed enhancing skills/traits/food/whatever can be revamped and changed to something more meaningful than a QoL feature. This adds to build diversity.

It sounds Like you do not wish to play the game that Anet has provided. You seek to undo so Much of what Anet has saught to make a balancing issue.

To accept the changes you want, to make Speed-boost mounts relevant, would be to allow the game to be changed Into a completely different game.

As such, I hate to sound repetative … and redundant…( see what I did there?) but…maube you might be happier playing a different game that has speed-boost mounts?

I know that World of warcraft has two of the things you want. it has speedboost mounts, and it has so many skill bars you can load up all of your skills, and not have to compromise for anything.

Reading your posts… it seems that the game you wish to play already exists. Ir’s simply not THIS game. Maybe it’s World of Warcraft?

It sounds Like you do not like change, you do not wish to play the game that Anet has provided. You seek to undo so Much of what Anet has sought to make a balancing issue.

Game was release and what we have now is not the same when it first came out. Since you don’t like change I will provide with other games you might like

Reading your constants copy and paste replied….it seem that the game you wish to play already exist. It is simply that this game is not for you because you don’t like change, maybe just maybe its (your constant replied goes here game)

Another distraction. I am not asking Anet to eliminate anything. And whether I like change or not. On the issue of Mounts….I do not want Mounts In the game.

This is still Not a compelling argument for Mounts.

Where are your compelling arguments for the inclusion of mounts that does Not amount to

1. it would be cool.
2. I want it
3. why not?

I am content with Anet’s decision to not provide speed-boost mounts.

Where are your compelling arguments for ?

Nerelith.7360:

make a compelling argument for why Mounts are beneficial to the game…

Money. That’s a compelling enough reason for ANet to do it. To invest (time and money) in development. If they expect a large enough return on cosmetic mounts they’ll do it.
It doesn’t have to be compelling for you, but for ANet.

…that doesn’t even seem to read these forums anyway. So joke’s on us. Haw. But seriously, if enough people pull a “shut up and take my money” about it, they’ll do it. Whatevs. I’m going to Schrodinger’s cat this thing and both care and not care until it actually happens or not happens.

As for “play the game as it is”, I generally do. That doesn’t mean the game can’t be better, which is what I push for. Which is why games change and innovate. “Play it as it is” is a push for stagnation and, ultimately, game death. (Unless they can crank out some really good story, which would be compelling enough to come back for, even with boringly unchanged characters.)

Game design has unintended consequences all the time. That’s why they get patched and improved. Usually. The Trait debacle is bad and they should feel bad. So yes, things get balanced, then rebalanced, then rebalanced again. Trait, skills, and gear change over time, then are removed for replacements. It’s already happened a few times.

Being “forced” into travel-boosting builds and gear loadouts is not an example of “build diversity.” It’s a limp-wristed compromise to something that players should have a more generalized access. While I’m not advocating mounts and the fuss of huge NPC-blocking mammoths kitten WoW) for the sake of decoration, it’s about time that ANet sincerely investigates the benefit of balancing for travel.

The key word being investigate. That will mean analyzing what will happen to some skills, like speed signets and the prevalence of some swiftness buffs (which is arguably the weakest buff in the game anyway…), but balancing can be done. Afterward, skill slots and trait points get freed up for things people actually want to do, instead of building just to be rid of a nuisance.

Nerelith.7360:

Leo.2641:

Nerelith.7360:

MrIllusion.5304:

Dusty Moon.4382:

The real problem with MrIllusion assumptions, is he does not see that builds, in GW2, are as much about compromise as it is what you are trying to accomplish. Adding in mounts would negate many of the current builds used in WvW and PvE. Skills such as the Necro’s Signet of the Locust, would be useless. There would be many traits negated by this also.

This is why adding in mounts is such a huge deal and chore – it really does affect the balance in GW2 and might totally unbalance the game. Games that balance both PvE and PvP have a knife-edge balance that if pushed one way or the other causes dire consequences. A.Net had this problem with GW1, then they added in both the Ritualist and Assassin professions. They never could get back the balance they had at the beginning of the game and they did admit that.

Rauderi, there are superior Signets of the Traveler – so yes there are signets that help with boosts. Putting in mounts would negate all of that also

You are wrong about me assuming.

The concept of adding Traveler Runes and Speed Signets and Banners isn’t something ground-breaking. We already know it exists.

The speed boosts they provide do not add to build diversity. We do not have a meta where we deck out in swiftness and speed boosts so that we can kite specific mobs, while crippling them (maybe it exists in PvP?). The current PvE meta does not have any of that.

The idea that removing all those speed boosts from skills/traits is going to kill build diversity is a moot point. Those skills/traits serve only one function in PvE. To get from point A to point B faster. If this is an issue in certain types of gameplay then normalise for that. It’s not uncommon to prevent mounting up in some MMOs in PvP or whatever content where higher speed is an unfair advantage.

Increasing speed across the board makes it so that Signet of Locusts and Warrior Banner Skill #3 and Guardian Staff #3 can be freed up in lieu of something that synergises with your build.

In other words, if speed were normalised, those speed enhancing skills/traits/food/whatever can be revamped and changed to something more meaningful than a QoL feature. This adds to build diversity.

It sounds Like you do not wish to play the game that Anet has provided. You seek to undo so Much of what Anet has saught to make a balancing issue.

To accept the changes you want, to make Speed-boost mounts relevant, would be to allow the game to be changed Into a completely different game.

As such, I hate to sound repetative … and redundant…( see what I did there?) but…maube you might be happier playing a different game that has speed-boost mounts?

I know that World of warcraft has two of the things you want. it has speedboost mounts, and it has so many skill bars you can load up all of your skills, and not have to compromise for anything.

Reading your posts… it seems that the game you wish to play already exists. Ir’s simply not THIS game. Maybe it’s World of Warcraft?

It sounds Like you do not like change, you do not wish to play the game that Anet has provided. You seek to undo so Much of what Anet has sought to make a balancing issue.

Game was release and what we have now is not the same when it first came out. Since you don’t like change I will provide with other games you might like

Reading your constants copy and paste replied….it seem that the game you wish to play already exist. It is simply that this game is not for you because you don’t like change, maybe just maybe its (your constant replied goes here game)

Another distraction. I am not asking Anet to eliminate anything. And whether I like change or not. On the issue of Mounts….I do not want Mounts In the game.

This is still Not a compelling argument for Mounts.

Where are your compelling arguments for the inclusion of mounts that does Not amount to

1. it would be cool.
2. I want it
3. why not?

I am content with Anet’s decision to not provide speed-boost mounts.

Where are your compelling arguments for ?

No sir, your copy and paste is a distraction and all your doing is bumping and taking space from the topic when other people can come in and actually put a for or against counter argument.

Rauderi.8706:

Nerelith.7360:

make a compelling argument for why Mounts are beneficial to the game…

Money. That’s a compelling enough reason for ANet to do it. To invest (time and money) in development. If they expect a large enough return on cosmetic mounts they’ll do it.
It doesn’t have to be compelling for you, but for ANet.

We agree, it does not need to be compelling for me, but for Anet. I have been saying this all along. And so does everyone else that is against mounts.

See? another strawman.

here is the thing. If Anet wants Money, all they need to do is design a few armor skins….or a new weapon skin.

Neither of those need the time, energy or resources to implement Mounts.

To implement mounts would be a huge undertaking. it would COST Money. A lot more money than it costs to make a few new armor or weapon skins.

it would also undo a LOT of the work they have put in making speed-boost an element around which class, runes, sigils, traits have been balanced.

A lot of work just to add something you guys want on the gem store.

This is Not a compelling argument for mounts, This is a compelling argument for " something on the gem store that people can buy"

Anet already has a Lot of those, that they need not introduce speed-boost mounts to attain.

This is basically " It would be cool and I want it." disguised as a compelling argument.

Rauderi.8706:

Nerelith.7360:

make a compelling argument for why Mounts are beneficial to the game…

Money. That’s a compelling enough reason for ANet to do it. To invest (time and money) in development. If they expect a large enough return on cosmetic mounts they’ll do it.
It doesn’t have to be compelling for you, but for ANet.

…that doesn’t even seem to read these forums anyway. So joke’s on us. Haw. But seriously, if enough people pull a “shut up and take my money” about it, they’ll do it. Whatevs. I’m going to Schrodinger’s cat this thing and both care and not care until it actually happens or not happens.

As for “play the game as it is”, I generally do. That doesn’t mean the game can’t be better, which is what I push for. Which is why games change and innovate. “Play it as it is” is a push for stagnation and, ultimately, game death. (Unless they can crank out some really good story, which would be compelling enough to come back for, even with boringly unchanged characters.)

Game design has unintended consequences all the time. That’s why they get patched and improved. Usually. The Trait debacle is bad and they should feel bad. So yes, things get balanced, then rebalanced, then rebalanced again. Trait, skills, and gear change over time, then are removed for replacements. It’s already happened a few times.

Being “forced” into travel-boosting builds and gear loadouts is not an example of “build diversity.” It’s a limp-wristed compromise to something that players should have a more generalized access. While I’m not advocating mounts and the fuss of huge NPC-blocking mammoths kitten WoW) for the sake of decoration, it’s about time that ANet sincerely investigates the benefit of balancing for travel.

The key word being investigate. That will mean analyzing what will happen to some skills, like speed signets and the prevalence of some swiftness buffs (which is arguably the weakest buff in the game anyway…), but balancing can be done. Afterward, skill slots and trait points get freed up for things people actually want to do, instead of building just to be rid of a nuisance.

LOL – there is the strawman argument again – money. Nevermind that it would totally unbalance the game and cause huge issues with useless skills. They have plenty of money making items in the CS already that are easy to design – weapon skins and armor skins.

I would argue that players who want mounts don’t understand that Swiftness, along with DPS, Armor, Healing, support are what this game is balanced on. Take away the swiftness and you end up an unbalanced game. It seems to me arguing with people who want mounts, is like having a blind man describe an elephant. They are only seeing one part of a bigger picture.

Mounts are not a simple addition – all the skills/traits would have to undergo a change and I don’t see that happening.

Leo.2641:

No sir, your copy and paste is a distraction and all your doing is bumping and taking space from the topic when other people can come in and actually put a for or against counter argument.

First I am not a sir, I am a Ma’am.

Secondly I understand you dislike the nature of this discussion. I Understand you want Players against mounts to provide compelling arguments that then you can poke holes at. So you can distract from the fact that you are not posting compelling arguments for speed Boost mounts.

YOU..want the game developers to change the game, YOU want them to devote time, energy, and resources to implement speed-boost mounts.

YOU need to provide compelling arguments.

All I… need to say to counter your argument demanding I make compelling arguments against is:

" I am content with Anet’s decision to not provide speed-boost mounts, therefore since I am not trying to compell Anet to change the game in any way shape or form, I need not provide any compelling argument"

Dusty Moon.4382:

Rauderi.8706:

Nerelith.7360:

make a compelling argument for why Mounts are beneficial to the game…

Money. That’s a compelling enough reason for ANet to do it. To invest (time and money) in development. If they expect a large enough return on cosmetic mounts they’ll do it.
It doesn’t have to be compelling for you, but for ANet.

…that doesn’t even seem to read these forums anyway. So joke’s on us. Haw. But seriously, if enough people pull a “shut up and take my money” about it, they’ll do it. Whatevs. I’m going to Schrodinger’s cat this thing and both care and not care until it actually happens or not happens.

As for “play the game as it is”, I generally do. That doesn’t mean the game can’t be better, which is what I push for. Which is why games change and innovate. “Play it as it is” is a push for stagnation and, ultimately, game death. (Unless they can crank out some really good story, which would be compelling enough to come back for, even with boringly unchanged characters.)

Game design has unintended consequences all the time. That’s why they get patched and improved. Usually. The Trait debacle is bad and they should feel bad. So yes, things get balanced, then rebalanced, then rebalanced again. Trait, skills, and gear change over time, then are removed for replacements. It’s already happened a few times.

Being “forced” into travel-boosting builds and gear loadouts is not an example of “build diversity.” It’s a limp-wristed compromise to something that players should have a more generalized access. While I’m not advocating mounts and the fuss of huge NPC-blocking mammoths kitten WoW) for the sake of decoration, it’s about time that ANet sincerely investigates the benefit of balancing for travel.

The key word being investigate. That will mean analyzing what will happen to some skills, like speed signets and the prevalence of some swiftness buffs (which is arguably the weakest buff in the game anyway…), but balancing can be done. Afterward, skill slots and trait points get freed up for things people actually want to do, instead of building just to be rid of a nuisance.

LOL – there is the strawman argument again – money. Nevermind that it would totally unbalance the game and cause huge issues with useless skills. They have plenty of money making items in the CS already that are easy to design – weapon skins and armor skins.

I would argue that players who want mounts don’t understand that Swiftness, along with DPS, Armor, Healing, support are what this game is balanced on. Take away the swiftness and you end up an unbalanced game. It seems to me arguing with people who want mounts, is like having a blind man describe an elephant. They are only seeing one part of a bigger picture.

Mounts are not a simple addition – all the skills/traits would have to undergo a change and I don’t see that happening.

I love that attachment by the way. And it does bring home the issue. All they look at is ’ No Mounts."

they either do not see, or don’t want to see. How swiftness would affect most of the classes, of not all. Some of the runes, some of the sigils, some of the traits.

generalized speed-boost would undo any benefit derived from some class skills and utilities. The thing is… it is not Just IN combat. Anet also wants these balances OUTSIDE combat.

As long as that is their position they need to understand this is the game that Anet wants it to be. They want the game to be changed for something else.

Sounds to me they should just play something else.

PS this is whrre they do the " they lost the argument" thing. It’s hard to lose an argument when the other side refuses to make an argument.

Orpheal.8263:

This are all compelling reasons for adding Mounts, as they would improve the fun of this game and everything that can improve the fun with the game for many people, while not disturbing those people that dislike that feature, is 100% optional and I don’t care from this point on anymore, if you think, thats not a compelling reason, because for you it just seems that nothing is a compelling reason.

I hope this in indicative of you agree that the suggestion to remove speed boost signet/rune/trait options wasn’t the best thought-out.

Orpheal tl;dr

My issue with cosmetics Only mounts is…I need to see them. I do not wish to see them.

Therefore, They need to be Invisible for me. HOW this comes about is up to the developers.

This means Not just that I do not see them, but that to me, it looks as if mounts did not exist in game. That means the animations on MY side must look as if they are running without a Mount.

Next none of this should draw time, energy resources from anything else.

The complaints against speed boost mounts are on the thread to be read, and revolve around:

1. balance
2. the fact that to implement speed boost mounts would require a major redesign of the game.

I’ll ignore your patronizing tone , in the interest of discussing.

Leo.2641:

Nerelith.7360:

Leo.2641:

No sir, your copy and paste is a distraction and all your doing is bumping and taking space from the topic when other people can come in and actually put a for or against counter argument.

First I am not a sir, I am a Ma’am.

Secondly I understand you dislike the nature of this discussion. I Understand you want Players against mounts to provide compelling arguments that then you can poke holes at. So you can distract from the fact that you are not posting compelling arguments for speed Boost mounts.

YOU..want the game developers to change the game, YOU want them to devote time, energy, and resources to implement speed-boost mounts.

YOU need to provide compelling arguments.

All I… need to say to counter your argument demanding I make compelling arguments against is:

" I am content with Anet’s decision to not provide speed-boost mounts, therefore since I am not trying to compel Anet to change the game in any way shape or form, I need not provide any compelling argument"

No sir, you are a troll provide compelling argument then I will take you serious

Agian. I am not a sir. I am female.

Troll doesn’t mean" doesn’t agree with me."

and…

I do not need to provide a compelling argument against. Sine I am not trying to compel Anet to do anything they are not already doing. YOU need to provide compelling arguments for why mounts are a necessary, or a beneficial inclusion that are worth the time, energy, and resources of the developers to drastically redesign the game for their inclusion.

Sadly for you, this is not an equal proposition with both sides having to make compelling arguments for their position.

YOU need to provide compelling arguments, which you still have not done… and still refuse to do. Don’t think I have not noticed that this is just more distraction from the fact that you are not providing compelling arguments for your proposition.

All I need to say is.." I am content with Anet’s continuing decision to not provide speed-boost mounts." Because I am not asking anet to make any changes.

Example…

Anet provides way-points. If one group wanted more way-points than are currently provided, and another group wanted less, then EACH needs to make compelling arguments, since each wants Anet to change the game from what it currently is.

If a third group chimes in and says " We don’t want any change at all, we are content with the number of way-points that Anet is providing.." then that group need not provide any compelling argument whatsoever. Because they are not advocating for any change whatsoever.

I can understand that you dislike the nature of this discussion, and the burden that it places On those seeking mounts and only on those seeking mounts.

But railing against it, doesn’t exempt you from it.

Where are your compelling arguments to prove that the inclusion of speed-boost mounts are beneficial to the game, and worth the developers Putting time energy, and resources into their implementation, without negatively impacting the players that do not wish Mounts in the game?

Leo.2641:

Nerelith.7360:

Leo.2641:

No sir, your copy and paste is a distraction and all your doing is bumping and taking space from the topic when other people can come in and actually put a for or against counter argument.

First I am not a sir, I am a Ma’am.

Secondly I understand you dislike the nature of this discussion. I Understand you want Players against mounts to provide compelling arguments that then you can poke holes at. So you can distract from the fact that you are not posting compelling arguments for speed Boost mounts.

YOU..want the game developers to change the game, YOU want them to devote time, energy, and resources to implement speed-boost mounts.

YOU need to provide compelling arguments.

All I… need to say to counter your argument demanding I make compelling arguments against is:

" I am content with Anet’s decision to not provide speed-boost mounts, therefore since I am not trying to compell Anet to change the game in any way shape or form, I need not provide any compelling argument"

No sir, you are a troll provide compelling argument then I will take you serious

Actually, she doesn’t have to give ANY compelling reasons. You are the one that HAS TO GIVE COMPELLING REASONS and I have seen up to this point – NONE. Stating I want them is not a compelling reason – it is a selfish reason.

It has been stated that players that don’t want mounts don’t want to see them. So, you who do want the mounts, want A.Net to set up a system where: 1. the players with mounts get them. 2. The players who don’t want mounts ALSO get what they want. I don’t think any software is complex enough, currently, to do that exact thing. Is there any game that you can do that in currently? No.

As far as speed boosts, again, you are dealing with game balance issues. No one has even remotely given reasons why that balance has to be disturbed, so that pro-mount people can have them. There are reasons that each profession has or has not a temporary speed boost and that has to do with balance. You haven’t even looked at skills where a speed boost is only one part of the skill (like a Banner).

If you want to discuss please state who you would fix the imbalances. What you would put in place and general how would that balance be achieved. These reasons would go a long way in pushing forward a discussion.

Nerelith.7360:

I’ll ignore your patronizing tone , in the interest of discussing.

Like it or GTFO isn’t patronizing? Confirmation Bias runs rampant in this thread. -_-

Not to get off track, let’s just look at all the ways people try to get around after they’ve made that nearest waypoint jump.

Shortbow 5, for as long as initiative holds out. I guess that’s as good as swiftness.
Various Warhorn skills of differing effectiveness and cooldown. Woe if you’re a Necromancer and a non-critter killable happens to be nearby.
Staff. Get either one small stack of swiftness on a longer cooldown, or sit on it for a few seconds to get 10-12 seconds of it.
Swap kits around constantly.

People are willing to do some crazy mess just to get to an event faster. And even then, it’s not consistent between classes. Would it not make sense to stabilize gameplay by providing a more reasonable option for traveling? And by travel, I mean noncombat. There is no need to make noncombat travel such a pain in the kitten.

That is a quality of life improvement worth investigating. (Since that obviously didn’t get read the first time.) There would be tons of balance issues to sort out, especially for WvW and PvP, where travel time is a huge factor. For open-world PvE? The assertion of noncombat balance in PvE borders on pitiable.
What balance is there in forcing my Mesmer to suffer a non-optimal travel speed, falling behind my Warrior ally before Golem Mk II gets mushed by the zerg?

Hi everyone,

Since this thread couldn’t stay constructive and derailed into an inflammatory discussion, we’ll now close it.

Thank you for your understanding.

Dear ArenaNet,

Great game! Thank you! I look forward to Sept. feature pack.

I recently saw a post about using the living story as a means to shut down all the waypoints temporarily and introduce mounts. This idea supports the notion that gw2 is a dynamic world. Dynamic simply means change. So, gw2 is a changing world. I would love to see this change. Let’s admit it, waypoints are simply a convenience and nothing more. Those people who say mounts will cause people to avoid content have no argument, because that is exactly what waypoints do.

Woodenpotatoes posted a couple of videos on YouTube with commentary about not using waypoints. Everyone should watch this. My friend and I have played that way for a while now and the level of immersion is awesome.

So, here is what I would like to add:
*first give us land mounts to earn! make them collectibles, and achievements of prestige for the difficulty of obtaining the faster and coolest looking ones from a combination of quest chains, dungeons, fractals, living story, ect….
*Second, Anet, don’t be afraid to really mix things up…shut down the waypoints!
*Third, turn Tyria into a seemless world so that all sections of the map can be traversed without having to go through a portal and loading screen. I know this would be a huge technical hurdle, but we have the technology!
*After making Tyria a seemless world, introduce flying mounts (dragons) with aerial combat and content in the sky!

Basically, Anet, don’t be afraid to actually make changes. Lion’s Arch was a good start, now kick it up a notch. In another post I suggested a political system that would cause world pvp between the races, again, a forever changing and evolving world! Oh, and please update Orr to reflect the completion of the living story.

Thank you.

Hmmm, mounts you say?

That is very interesting. I’m curious if any one else in the GW2 community has ever considered such things.

Look! It’s Friday, and there’s another mount thread! (Does this make two for this week?)

OP, Would you let them make their game please?

This is not WoW. We don’t want it to be. Thank you.

You forgot the fifth step.

*Rename GW2 to WoW.

No. If the game has started with mounts and no way points maybe… but as things are I say absolutely no to this.
I don’t always waypoint everywhere, less waypoints might been alright. BUT. Removing them entirely… even if temporary… no thanks. Also mounts does not suit this game, I know the broom and drill could be considered mounts, and those are okay… and other toys like those… sure whatever. Actual mounts, horses, dolyaks… mechanical mounts… no no no and no. Areas like the Desolation in GW1 with the junundu wurms… alright… but otherwise… still no. It does not suit this game. I already see a high risk of eyesores with charr riding horses (really I might cry just thinking…) and/or people complaining that most mounts would be racial/cultural.

Did i hear mounts?

No No No! Evil!