Guild Wars 2

Hi everyone,

I along with many other players have been planning looks for my characters made possible by the upcoming wardrobe system. I’ve been collecting different looks for all my characters along with lots of weapon set combination.

One of my main focuses in this game was to collect Legendary weapons. To this day I managed to get a couple, two of which are Sunrise & Twilight. I decided against merging the two weapons and creating Eternity because I prefer the manual control of color the two blades provide over the single Eternity. When the wardrobe system was introduced, this solved my problems. I could create Eternity but also have manual control over the Sunrise and Twilight aspect, being able to just make more greatswords and adding the respective skins. AWESOME!

Unfortunately, I then came across a rather big worry: People like me will be able to unlock the Sunrise and Twilight skins before merging them into Eternity. Meaning I can unlock the skins of these legendaries, craft Eternity and then sell it. This allows me to have both Sunrise and Twilight skins unlocked on my account without owning Sunrise, Twilight or Eternity. This means as long as you have a hefty amount of gold, you can basically unlock the skins for free, considering the money you spent on crafting or buying Sunrise and Twilight is earned back by selling Eternity. You can then do whatever you want with the money, buy two or three more legendaries if you want.

I’m not sure if this is possible but if it is, Sunrise and Twilight skins will become more mainstream and worst of all a pretty much free unlock. Are there any restriction put in place to restrict people from selling Eternity after they unlocked Sunrise and Twilight skins? At this point the only solution to this problem I can see is to make Eternity account bound on acquire which to be honest isn’t the worst solution as you’re still able to buy Sunrise and Twilight skins in order to craft it yourself with relative ease.

Can I please get a developer response to this question? Or if it exists, a post which explains whether this is possible or not. I’d hate it when these legendary skins become freebies for people with enough gold.

Kind regards,
Spiderpig, a player on Far Shiverpeaks

P.S. : Note that I am aware of the fact that unlocking the Eternity skin will bind in to the account, which is why you won’t be able to unlock the Eternity skin itself by doing this.

Well your P.S. answers it all… people usually wants the Eternity skin if they go for both GS’

But it would be kinda wicked to do to have both skins unlocked and then sell Eternity

Nabuko Darayon.9645:

Well your P.S. answers it all… people usually wants the Eternity skin if they go for both GS’

But it would be kinda wicked to do to have both skins unlocked and then sell Eternity

The thing is though, how unique looking is Eternity as soon as both Twilight and Sunrise are freebies.. I’d choose a Sunrise skin+ Twilight skin + 2-3 additional legendaries over just Eternity

This may serve to lower the prices and stabilize itself if, as you say, everybody will be doing it.

This will be good for all parties. People who do this will be able to get more legendary skins because they’ll have a lot of money, and the prices of legendary won’t inflate as quickly for a while

Shockwave.1230:

This will be good for all parties. People who do this will be able to get more legendary skins because they’ll have a lot of money, and the prices of legendary won’t inflate as quickly for a while

Yes but how ’’legendary’’ is a weapon as soon as everyone has it… I mean not only will Sunrise/Twilight skins become more common but also the skins of all the other legendaries, as people with sunrise and twilight can get 2-3 for those for nothing pretty much.

Can’t it just be made so that when you combine them to make Eternity, the skins are ripped from the warddrobe? Then, if you sell it you lose all skins. Bind it and you get the eternity skin + the other 2 back.

Or make the bindings on them carry over. If either sunrise or twilight is soulbound, then the resulting eternity will also be bound (account).
If they are both unbound, then the eternity will also be unbound and the seller gets no skins.

I’m sure there’s flaws in these ideas, but surely something like that could be implemented?

Spiderpig.9843:

Shockwave.1230:

This will be good for all parties. People who do this will be able to get more legendary skins because they’ll have a lot of money, and the prices of legendary won’t inflate as quickly for a while

Yes but how ’’legendary’’ is a weapon as soon as everyone has it… I mean not only will Sunrise/Twilight skins become more common but also the skins of all the other legendaries, as people with sunrise and twilight can get 2-3 for those for nothing pretty much.

How ‘legendary’ is a weapon that you can buy with your credit card rather than actually having to play the game for it?

Not very imo, but I guess everyone is different.

Spiderpig.9843:

Yes but how ’’legendary’’ is a weapon as soon as everyone has it…

Considering you can buy it off of the TP, it’s really not all that legendary.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

Shockwave.1230:

This will be good for all parties. People who do this will be able to get more legendary skins because they’ll have a lot of money, and the prices of legendary won’t inflate as quickly for a while

Yes but how ’’legendary’’ is a weapon as soon as everyone has it… I mean not only will Sunrise/Twilight skins become more common but also the skins of all the other legendaries, as people with sunrise and twilight can get 2-3 for those for nothing pretty much.

How ‘legendary’ is a weapon that you can buy with your credit card rather than actually having to play the game for it?

Not very imo, but I guess everyone is different.

I agree with you on that. But you can also agree with me that this would only make it worse instead of better.

You have to soulbind or salvage the item to unlock the skin. Would Eternity be unbound after you merged Sunrise and Twilight?

MrRuin.9740:

Can’t it just be made so that when you combine them to make Eternity, the skins are ripped from the warddrobe? Then, if you sell it you lose all skins. Bind it and you get the eternity skin + the other 2 back.

Or make the bindings on them carry over. If either sunrise or twilight is soulbound, then the resulting eternity will also be bound (account).
If they are both unbound, then the eternity will also be unbound and the seller gets no skins.

I’m sure there’s flaws in these ideas, but surely something like that could be implemented?

If you implement this logic – ie you no longer ‘have’ it, so you no longer have access to the skin, they would need to apply it to all similar items (the spinal back piece, infused items, etc). They would also need to remove the logic of obtaining a skin via salvaging the item, as you don’t own the item because you destroyed it. Also, if you sold the item you bound (as we sometimes do during our character’s progression). You no longer own that item, you sold it. You no longer have access to its skin. As such, you may as well just scrap the wardrobe system completely.

Yes, they could make a very specific concession for legendaries, and simply not include them in the wardrobe. (Which could potentially be one hell of a coding headache) However, they obviously did not feel the same way about it as a lot of people here do since they did include them and specifically used the Eternity as an example in how previous subcomponents remain/become unlocked in the evolution chain.

Holo the Wise.4179:

You have to soulbind or salvage the item to unlock the skin. Would Eternity be unbound after you merged Sunrise and Twilight?

If it uses the same mechanics as it currently does, Eternity will come out of the forge being account bound on equip instead of soul bound on equip. This means that as long as you don’t equip it you can presumably still sell it.

Spiderpig.9843:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

Shockwave.1230:

This will be good for all parties. People who do this will be able to get more legendary skins because they’ll have a lot of money, and the prices of legendary won’t inflate as quickly for a while

Yes but how ’’legendary’’ is a weapon as soon as everyone has it… I mean not only will Sunrise/Twilight skins become more common but also the skins of all the other legendaries, as people with sunrise and twilight can get 2-3 for those for nothing pretty much.

How ‘legendary’ is a weapon that you can buy with your credit card rather than actually having to play the game for it?

Not very imo, but I guess everyone is different.

I agree with you on that. But you can also agree with me that this would only make it worse instead of better.

I don’t see any issue with it actually. People that don’t have legendaries still don’t have them. People that do have them aren’t losing anything, in fact they are gaining from this.

If anything, these changes will encourage more players to obtain legendary items. Either through crafting them or obtaining the gold to buy them outright. So what if someone makes/buys twilight and sunrise, gets their skins, then sells the unbound eternity. If legendaries were actually ‘legendary’ then I could see the issue; however, they are not simply due to the purchase-ability factor. Of course, if they weren’t purchasable to begin with, we wouldn’t be having this conversation at all.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

Shockwave.1230:

This will be good for all parties. People who do this will be able to get more legendary skins because they’ll have a lot of money, and the prices of legendary won’t inflate as quickly for a while

Yes but how ’’legendary’’ is a weapon as soon as everyone has it… I mean not only will Sunrise/Twilight skins become more common but also the skins of all the other legendaries, as people with sunrise and twilight can get 2-3 for those for nothing pretty much.

How ‘legendary’ is a weapon that you can buy with your credit card rather than actually having to play the game for it?

Not very imo, but I guess everyone is different.

I agree with you on that. But you can also agree with me that this would only make it worse instead of better.

I don’t see any issue with it actually. People that don’t have legendaries still don’t have them. People that do have them aren’t losing anything, in fact they are gaining from this.

If anything, these changes will encourage more players to obtain legendary items. Either through crafting them or obtaining the gold to buy them outright. So what if someone makes/buys twilight and sunrise, gets their skins, then sells the unbound eternity. If legendaries were actually ‘legendary’ then I could see the issue; however, they are not simply due to the purchase-ability factor. Of course, if they weren’t purchasable to begin with, we wouldn’t be having this conversation at all.

I just think it’s unfair for Sunrise and Twilight skins to become freebies while all the other legendaries will not (this comes from a person who is actually able to do this). It would mean they are no longer on the same level as the other legendaries while people have to go through the same effort if not more to get them. I’d feel like a cheat if stood next to a guy with twilight with my own exotics twilight skinned blade and ask him how much he payed for it, considering I had mine free. I’d be fine with Eternity being on the same level as the other legendaries, but then I would’ve like Sunrise and Twilight to be those expensive mystic forge exotics instead.

I think the best solution is to just make Eternity account bound on creation.

No harm done to anyone, and it’s probably a lot simpler to code in than ripping skins.

It would ‘harm’ those people trying to use Eternity as tool to liquidate Sunrise/Twilight but the whole point if a soul-bind system was to stop people from reselling items anyways.

Spiderpig.9843:

I just think it’s unfair for Sunrise and Twilight to become freebies while all the other legendaries will not.

I hardly see them as ‘free’ by any standard.

You either need to make them and equip them. True, you can sell eternity after the fact, but that still doesn’t make them ‘free’.

Or, you have to scrounge up the gold to buy them. Yes, you can still sell eternity after the fact, but at a loss. Hardly ‘free’ through that route either.

Either option takes time, and effort. Neither of which you will get back. Everything has a ‘cost’ to it.

Of course, we also have no idea how the market is going to be after the update. If we see an influx of eternities kitten many seem to believe, it’ll simply drive the cost down that much more, resulting in a larger loss if you purchased the other 2 greatswords directly. Again, hardly ‘free.’

Eternity being account bound would be easiest and affect the smallest amount f the population, IMO.
How many people craft it with the sole intention of selling it? The amount looking to do so will dramatically increase with freebie skins. Account-bind Eternity and you kill that before it even starts and only manage to kitten off the tiny portion of the people who craft to sell.
Sadly, some group of people is going to be upset in any scenario, they may as well make it the smallest possible group of people.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

I just think it’s unfair for Sunrise and Twilight to become freebies while all the other legendaries will not.

I hardly see them as ‘free’ by any standard.

You either need to make them and equip them. True, you can sell eternity after the fact, but that still doesn’t make them ‘free’.

Or, you have to scrounge up the gold to buy them. Yes, you can still sell eternity after the fact, but at a loss. Hardly ‘free’ through that route either.

Either option takes time, and effort. Neither of which you will get back. Everything has a ‘cost’ to it.

Of course, we also have no idea how the market is going to be after the update. If we see an influx of eternities kitten many seem to believe, it’ll simply drive the cost down that much more, resulting in a larger loss if you purchased the other 2 greatswords directly. Again, hardly ‘free.’

Maybe the gold you get from selling Eternity will not fully compensate for the amount of gold spent. But say its a 500g difference. It would mean I’d be able to unlock say the Twilight skin for 500g instead of the ~1800g and get the Sunrise skin for free with it. Ifcourse I would need like 3500-4000g to do this, but being able to pay 500g and unlock Sunrise and Twilight skins to me sounds like a cheat..

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

Shockwave.1230:

This will be good for all parties. People who do this will be able to get more legendary skins because they’ll have a lot of money, and the prices of legendary won’t inflate as quickly for a while

Yes but how ’’legendary’’ is a weapon as soon as everyone has it… I mean not only will Sunrise/Twilight skins become more common but also the skins of all the other legendaries, as people with sunrise and twilight can get 2-3 for those for nothing pretty much.

How ‘legendary’ is a weapon that you can buy with your credit card rather than actually having to play the game for it?

Not very imo, but I guess everyone is different.

I agree with you on that. But you can also agree with me that this would only make it worse instead of better.

I don’t see any issue with it actually. People that don’t have legendaries still don’t have them. People that do have them aren’t losing anything, in fact they are gaining from this.

If anything, these changes will encourage more players to obtain legendary items. Either through crafting them or obtaining the gold to buy them outright. So what if someone makes/buys twilight and sunrise, gets their skins, then sells the unbound eternity. If legendaries were actually ‘legendary’ then I could see the issue; however, they are not simply due to the purchase-ability factor. Of course, if they weren’t purchasable to begin with, we wouldn’t be having this conversation at all.

Let me put this into a real life example.

You buy/build two houses. You sell said house. And after paying legal fees and stamp duty, you get to keep the houses and also the money you sold the houses for.

Does that sound sensible?

Selling something means fully transferring the ownership of an item. In this case you transferred the ownership of your sword to another and thus should not be able to own the sub-components associated with it.

To put it as an in game problem, you’re basically crafting 2 sets of Sunrise and Twilight using 1 set of materials every time you do this.

Or if you got enough money, you get 2 Legendaries next to free.

Also, to a lot of people who owns Sunrise and Twilight and do not plan to do this, it devalues their items.

There, 3 problems.

Xae Isareth.1364:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

Shockwave.1230:

This will be good for all parties. People who do this will be able to get more legendary skins because they’ll have a lot of money, and the prices of legendary won’t inflate as quickly for a while

Yes but how ’’legendary’’ is a weapon as soon as everyone has it… I mean not only will Sunrise/Twilight skins become more common but also the skins of all the other legendaries, as people with sunrise and twilight can get 2-3 for those for nothing pretty much.

How ‘legendary’ is a weapon that you can buy with your credit card rather than actually having to play the game for it?

Not very imo, but I guess everyone is different.

I agree with you on that. But you can also agree with me that this would only make it worse instead of better.

I don’t see any issue with it actually. People that don’t have legendaries still don’t have them. People that do have them aren’t losing anything, in fact they are gaining from this.

If anything, these changes will encourage more players to obtain legendary items. Either through crafting them or obtaining the gold to buy them outright. So what if someone makes/buys twilight and sunrise, gets their skins, then sells the unbound eternity. If legendaries were actually ‘legendary’ then I could see the issue; however, they are not simply due to the purchase-ability factor. Of course, if they weren’t purchasable to begin with, we wouldn’t be having this conversation at all.

Let me put this into a real life example.

You buy/build two houses. You sell said house. And after paying legal fees and stamp duty, you get to keep the houses and also the money you sold the houses for.

Does that sound sensible?

Selling something means fully transferring the ownership of an item. In this case you transferred the ownership of your sword to another and thus should not be able to own the sub-components associated with it.

To put it as an in game problem, you’re basically crafting 2 sets of Sunrise and Twilight using 1 set of materials every time you do this.

Or if you got enough money, you get 2 Legendaries next to free.

Also, to a lot of people who owns Sunrise and Twilight and do not plan to do this, it devalues their items.

There, 3 problems.

I really appreciate well thought out post like this. You manage to explain the issue way better than I can do myself. +1 for the great post:)

Spiderpig.9843:

Maybe the gold you get from selling Eternity will not fully compensate for the amount of gold spent. But say its a 500g difference. It would mean I’d be able to unlock say the Twilight skin for 500g instead of the ~1800g and get the Sunrise skin for free with it. Ifcourse I would need like 3500-4000g to do this, but being able to pay 500g and unlock Sunrise and Twilight skins to me sounds like a cheat..

Difference of opinion I suppose. I don’t see this as any different than playing the TP as it presently stands.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

I just think it’s unfair for Sunrise and Twilight to become freebies while all the other legendaries will not.

I hardly see them as ‘free’ by any standard.

You either need to make them and equip them. True, you can sell eternity after the fact, but that still doesn’t make them ‘free’.

Or, you have to scrounge up the gold to buy them. Yes, you can still sell eternity after the fact, but at a loss. Hardly ‘free’ through that route either.

Either option takes time, and effort. Neither of which you will get back. Everything has a ‘cost’ to it.

Of course, we also have no idea how the market is going to be after the update. If we see an influx of eternities kitten many seem to believe, it’ll simply drive the cost down that much more, resulting in a larger loss if you purchased the other 2 greatswords directly. Again, hardly ‘free.’

By that logic, should we be able to just do the same for every other item in the game?

So I should be able to buy and resell Infinite Light? I made the money to ‘buy’ it in the first place. And I’m making a loss on resell.

If the price of Eternity falls, the prices of the other GSs falls as well, because they are inferior substitutes.

Xae Isareth.1364:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

Shockwave.1230:

This will be good for all parties. People who do this will be able to get more legendary skins because they’ll have a lot of money, and the prices of legendary won’t inflate as quickly for a while

Yes but how ’’legendary’’ is a weapon as soon as everyone has it… I mean not only will Sunrise/Twilight skins become more common but also the skins of all the other legendaries, as people with sunrise and twilight can get 2-3 for those for nothing pretty much.

How ‘legendary’ is a weapon that you can buy with your credit card rather than actually having to play the game for it?

Not very imo, but I guess everyone is different.

I agree with you on that. But you can also agree with me that this would only make it worse instead of better.

I don’t see any issue with it actually. People that don’t have legendaries still don’t have them. People that do have them aren’t losing anything, in fact they are gaining from this.

If anything, these changes will encourage more players to obtain legendary items. Either through crafting them or obtaining the gold to buy them outright. So what if someone makes/buys twilight and sunrise, gets their skins, then sells the unbound eternity. If legendaries were actually ‘legendary’ then I could see the issue; however, they are not simply due to the purchase-ability factor. Of course, if they weren’t purchasable to begin with, we wouldn’t be having this conversation at all.

Let me put this into a real life example.

You buy/build two houses. You sell said house. And after paying legal fees and stamp duty, you get to keep the houses and also the money you sold the houses for.

Does that sound sensible?

Selling something means fully transferring the ownership of an item. In this case you transferred the ownership of your sword to another and thus should not be able to own the sub-components associated with it.

To put it as an in game problem, you’re basically crafting 2 sets of Sunrise and Twilight using 1 set of materials every time you do this.

Or if you got enough money, you get 2 Legendaries next to free.

Also, to a lot of people who owns Sunrise and Twilight and do not plan to do this, it devalues their items.

There, 3 problems.

First, as people have told me hundreds of times when I try to use real life examples…. “this isn’t real life.”

Second, by your logic, the wardrobe does not work period and should not exist. You salvage an item, it’s gone. You sell an item, it’s gone. Yet their skins remain with the current implementation of the wardrobe, which has been my entire point all along. By your logic, they should not work this way. When you salvage or sell, then the skin should be removed from the wardrobe. (The pvp locker kind of works this way, but can only hold a single instance of the item.) Anet obviously decided that’t not how they want it to work. Considering they took the time to think through how ‘skin progression’ for things like Eternity or the Spinal Back piece work and how they would be implemented in the wardrobe, the developers obviously didn’t agree with your views.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

Maybe the gold you get from selling Eternity will not fully compensate for the amount of gold spent. But say its a 500g difference. It would mean I’d be able to unlock say the Twilight skin for 500g instead of the ~1800g and get the Sunrise skin for free with it. Ifcourse I would need like 3500-4000g to do this, but being able to pay 500g and unlock Sunrise and Twilight skins to me sounds like a cheat..

Difference of opinion I suppose. I don’t see this as any different than playing the TP as it presently stands.

Ignoring taxes, playing the TP is a zero-sum game. You aren’t generating any currency or items from flipping/arbitrage trading/investing. You are merely creating a transfer of wealth.

This generates a set of Twilight and Sunrise out of nowhere.

Xae Isareth.1364:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

I just think it’s unfair for Sunrise and Twilight to become freebies while all the other legendaries will not.

I hardly see them as ‘free’ by any standard.

You either need to make them and equip them. True, you can sell eternity after the fact, but that still doesn’t make them ‘free’.

Or, you have to scrounge up the gold to buy them. Yes, you can still sell eternity after the fact, but at a loss. Hardly ‘free’ through that route either.

Either option takes time, and effort. Neither of which you will get back. Everything has a ‘cost’ to it.

Of course, we also have no idea how the market is going to be after the update. If we see an influx of eternities kitten many seem to believe, it’ll simply drive the cost down that much more, resulting in a larger loss if you purchased the other 2 greatswords directly. Again, hardly ‘free.’

By that logic, should we be able to just do the same for every other item in the game?

So I should be able to buy and resell Infinite Light? I made the money to ‘buy’ it in the first place. And I’m making a loss on resell.

If the price of Eternity falls, the prices of the other GSs falls as well, because they are inferior substitutes.

Sure you could buy it, and then resell it, but you wouldn’t get the skin. You either have to bind or salvage to get the skin, at which point there is no reselling.

People aren’t acquiring Twilight and Sunrise for nothing. They still have to do ‘something’ to get them. When they create eternity and sell it, they don’t get its skin. That’s the trade off. You choose to bind it for its skin, or you choose to sell it. The trade off exists, you guys just don’t think it’s a big enough one.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Xae Isareth.1364:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

Shockwave.1230:

This will be good for all parties. People who do this will be able to get more legendary skins because they’ll have a lot of money, and the prices of legendary won’t inflate as quickly for a while

Yes but how ’’legendary’’ is a weapon as soon as everyone has it… I mean not only will Sunrise/Twilight skins become more common but also the skins of all the other legendaries, as people with sunrise and twilight can get 2-3 for those for nothing pretty much.

How ‘legendary’ is a weapon that you can buy with your credit card rather than actually having to play the game for it?

Not very imo, but I guess everyone is different.

I agree with you on that. But you can also agree with me that this would only make it worse instead of better.

I don’t see any issue with it actually. People that don’t have legendaries still don’t have them. People that do have them aren’t losing anything, in fact they are gaining from this.

If anything, these changes will encourage more players to obtain legendary items. Either through crafting them or obtaining the gold to buy them outright. So what if someone makes/buys twilight and sunrise, gets their skins, then sells the unbound eternity. If legendaries were actually ‘legendary’ then I could see the issue; however, they are not simply due to the purchase-ability factor. Of course, if they weren’t purchasable to begin with, we wouldn’t be having this conversation at all.

Let me put this into a real life example.

You buy/build two houses. You sell said house. And after paying legal fees and stamp duty, you get to keep the houses and also the money you sold the houses for.

Does that sound sensible?

Selling something means fully transferring the ownership of an item. In this case you transferred the ownership of your sword to another and thus should not be able to own the sub-components associated with it.

To put it as an in game problem, you’re basically crafting 2 sets of Sunrise and Twilight using 1 set of materials every time you do this.

Or if you got enough money, you get 2 Legendaries next to free.

Also, to a lot of people who owns Sunrise and Twilight and do not plan to do this, it devalues their items.

There, 3 problems.

First, as people have told me hundreds of times when I try to use real life examples…. “this isn’t real life.”

Second, by your logic, the wardrobe does not work period and should not exist. You salvage an item, it’s gone. You sell an item, it’s gone. Yet their skins remain with the current implementation of the wardrobe, which has been my entire point all along. By your logic, they should not work this way. When you salvage or sell, then the skin should be removed from the wardrobe. (The pvp locker kind of works this way, but can only hold a single instance of the item.) Anet obviously decided that’t not how they want it to work. Considering they took the time to think through how ‘skin progression’ for things like Eternity or the Spinal Back piece work and how they would be implemented in the wardrobe, the developers obviously didn’t agree with your views.

The thing is: only one Eternity is crafted yet two people, me and the buyer, are able to use the skins of its components. In the spinal backpiece example it is just one person. Therefore this situation is different.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Xae Isareth.1364:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

I just think it’s unfair for Sunrise and Twilight to become freebies while all the other legendaries will not.

I hardly see them as ‘free’ by any standard.

You either need to make them and equip them. True, you can sell eternity after the fact, but that still doesn’t make them ‘free’.

Or, you have to scrounge up the gold to buy them. Yes, you can still sell eternity after the fact, but at a loss. Hardly ‘free’ through that route either.

Either option takes time, and effort. Neither of which you will get back. Everything has a ‘cost’ to it.

Of course, we also have no idea how the market is going to be after the update. If we see an influx of eternities kitten many seem to believe, it’ll simply drive the cost down that much more, resulting in a larger loss if you purchased the other 2 greatswords directly. Again, hardly ‘free.’

By that logic, should we be able to just do the same for every other item in the game?

So I should be able to buy and resell Infinite Light? I made the money to ‘buy’ it in the first place. And I’m making a loss on resell.

If the price of Eternity falls, the prices of the other GSs falls as well, because they are inferior substitutes.

Sure you could buy it, and then resell it, but you wouldn’t get the skin. You either have to bind or salvage to get the skin, at which point there is no reselling.

People aren’t acquiring Twilight and Sunrise for nothing. They still have to do ‘something’ to get them. When they create eternity and sell it, they don’t get its skin. That’s the trade off. You choose to bind it for its skin, or you choose to sell it. The trade off exists, you guys just don’t think it’s a big enough one.

I feel like you are missing the point. The only way you can unlock the skin of a legendary is by actually owning them. Like after I unlock my Bifrost skin I cant sell my Bifrost as it is account bound. With Sunrise and Twilight this is different. I can unlock the skin of the legendary and get a return of my investment by creating and selling Eternity.

I thought about using and abusing this for myself. For days, I’ve rattled over in my brain “how can ArenaNet stop this?”. Account bound Eternity? No, some are on the TP and that would be unfair. Ripping Sunrise/Twilight when they are forged to Eternity until Eternity is equipped? Likely not possible to code.

I can’t think of how ANet can prevent this. So I don’t think they will.

I believe what will happen is:
1) Sunrise and Twilight both drop in cost drastically. Eternity drops with them but is far cheaper than buying both Sunrise & Twilight combined, and is under “150%” cost.
2) There will be no demand for Eternity to make this possible after the first few people abuse this because of a constant supply of Eternity, much greater than what it is now.

1 is likely if people actually want Eternity (I personally don’t, and never have done. I have always intended on just keeping Sunrise & Twilight). 2 in my eyes is the more likely scenario, because I believe that a much greater sum of people would rather pay “1000g” (my estimate for the difference in price between Eternity and Sunrise+Twilight) for both Sunrise & Twilight skins than pay 3500g for all 3. I don’t know many people who would value the Eternity skin so greatly.

As much as I’d like to abuse this – which would likely allow me to complete my Legendary set – it needs to be looked at and fixed before the 15th. But what is more likely happen is ANet go “oops” and the first people on board profit greatly, and it’s fixed on the 16th.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Xae Isareth.1364:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Spiderpig.9843:

Shockwave.1230:

This will be good for all parties. People who do this will be able to get more legendary skins because they’ll have a lot of money, and the prices of legendary won’t inflate as quickly for a while

Yes but how ’’legendary’’ is a weapon as soon as everyone has it… I mean not only will Sunrise/Twilight skins become more common but also the skins of all the other legendaries, as people with sunrise and twilight can get 2-3 for those for nothing pretty much.

How ‘legendary’ is a weapon that you can buy with your credit card rather than actually having to play the game for it?

Not very imo, but I guess everyone is different.

I agree with you on that. But you can also agree with me that this would only make it worse instead of better.

I don’t see any issue with it actually. People that don’t have legendaries still don’t have them. People that do have them aren’t losing anything, in fact they are gaining from this.

If anything, these changes will encourage more players to obtain legendary items. Either through crafting them or obtaining the gold to buy them outright. So what if someone makes/buys twilight and sunrise, gets their skins, then sells the unbound eternity. If legendaries were actually ‘legendary’ then I could see the issue; however, they are not simply due to the purchase-ability factor. Of course, if they weren’t purchasable to begin with, we wouldn’t be having this conversation at all.

Let me put this into a real life example.

You buy/build two houses. You sell said house. And after paying legal fees and stamp duty, you get to keep the houses and also the money you sold the houses for.

Does that sound sensible?

Selling something means fully transferring the ownership of an item. In this case you transferred the ownership of your sword to another and thus should not be able to own the sub-components associated with it.

To put it as an in game problem, you’re basically crafting 2 sets of Sunrise and Twilight using 1 set of materials every time you do this.

Or if you got enough money, you get 2 Legendaries next to free.

Also, to a lot of people who owns Sunrise and Twilight and do not plan to do this, it devalues their items.

There, 3 problems.

First, as people have told me hundreds of times when I try to use real life examples…. “this isn’t real life.”

Second, by your logic, the wardrobe does not work period and should not exist. You salvage an item, it’s gone. You sell an item, it’s gone. Yet their skins remain with the current implementation of the wardrobe, which has been my entire point all along. By your logic, they should not work this way. When you salvage or sell, then the skin should be removed from the wardrobe. (The pvp locker kind of works this way, but can only hold a single instance of the item.) Anet obviously decided that’t not how they want it to work. Considering they took the time to think through how ‘skin progression’ for things like Eternity or the Spinal Back piece work and how they would be implemented in the wardrobe, the developers obviously didn’t agree with your views.

I’m going to ignore that it’s not real life counter-argument, because just because it’s not real life doesn’t mean you don’t draw real life comparisons. It’s why it’s called virtual reality.

I don’t think you understand the intentions of the wardrobe.

-Salvage: Do you forsee anyone salvaging stuff like Infinite Light? Why does salvaging even come into this? Its basically arguing for the the argument’s sake.
-Selling: you can’t resell any other item once you bind it to get its skin.

The whole point of the wardrobe is to let you reuse skins you already own on alts, because the current system is very alt-unfriendly, and to remove the destructive nature of the current system, so we can try out new looks without putting past efforts to waste.

The skin progression doesn’t have anything to do with this. That was thought out under the idea that you still own the resulting item, and thus should have access to its Orr-requisite skins. Selling Eternity means you don’t own Eternity any more, putting that reasoning out of the window.

Flissy.4093:

I thought about using and abusing this for myself. For days, I’ve rattled over in my brain “how can ArenaNet stop this?”. Account bound Eternity? No, some are on the TP and that would be unfair. Ripping Sunrise/Twilight when they are forged to Eternity until Eternity is equipped? Likely not possible to code.

I can’t think of how ANet can prevent this. So I don’t think they will.

I believe what will happen is:
1) Sunrise and Twilight both drop in cost drastically. Eternity drops with them but is far cheaper than buying both Sunrise & Twilight combined, and is under “150%” cost.
2) There will be no demand for Eternity to make this possible after the first few people abuse this because of a constant supply of Eternity, much greater than what it is now.

1 is likely if people actually want Eternity (I personally don’t, and never have done. I have always intended on just keeping Sunrise & Twilight). 2 in my eyes is the more likely scenario, because I believe that a much greater sum of people would rather pay “1000g” (my estimate for the difference in price between Eternity and Sunrise+Twilight) for both Sunrise & Twilight skins than pay 3500g for all 3. I don’t know many people who would value the Eternity skin so greatly.

As much as I’d like to abuse this – which would likely allow me to complete my Legendary set – it needs to be looked at and fixed before the 15th. But what is more likely happen is ANet go “oops” and the first people on board profit greatly, and it’s fixed on the 16th.

Make the current Eternities a discountinued item. Take away it’s MF recipe.

Change the result of the recipe to a new item (it still can keep the same name, like how Acolyte Cowl lvl 1 and lvl 5 has the same name), which is exactly the same as Eternity except that it’s account bound always.

Problem solved.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Flissy.4093:

.

Make the current Eternities a discountinued item. Take away it’s MF recipe.

Change the result of the recipe to a new item (it still can keep the same name, like how Acolyte Cowl lvl 1 and lvl 5 has the same name), which is exactly the same as Eternity except that it’s account bound always.

Problem solved.

That is a horrendous idea. Discontinued items as prestigious as Eternity is an abomination and will be game crippling. The best solution would be to prevent them being tradable, except those already listed – anybody who wants to purchase Eternity rather than crafting the 2 GS can just buy the 2 GS of the TP. It’s not perfect, but it’s the best I can think of.

^ you really missed a point. Eternity isn’t discountinued. It’s just a method to get around making every Eternity account bound, new or not, which would be a slap to the faces of those who wanted to sell their’s before the patch.

Also, can we just get a Anet dev to just settle this? It’s not the first time this popped up.

This is the most petty of complaints in a long list of complaints.

Don’t like the fact that you already created an eternity to sell it? Well you made more gold than those who will do so after the patch. The complaints will be reversed in 30 days. Just watch.

Don’t like that your skins are all over the place now? From my point of view they already are, and in a game with no other goal – guess what? That’s the goal.

Shockwave.1230:

This will be good for all parties. People who do this will be able to get more legendary skins because they’ll have a lot of money, and the prices of legendary won’t inflate as quickly for a while

Actually just the opposite will happen. Eternity will drop in price while demand for otehr Legendaries will increase. T6 will increase aswell because people will figure out it’s cheaper to just craft one.
I dunno I have a mixed feeling about this now.

P.S. Unless they create an Unbound gemstore item I can’t see how this will make the market more stable.

pswendel.8179:

This is the most petty of complaints in a long list of complaints.

Don’t like the fact that you already created an eternity to sell it? Well you made more gold than those who will do so after the patch. The complaints will be reversed in 30 days. Just watch.

Don’t like that your skins are all over the place now? From my point of view they already are, and in a game with no other goal – guess what? That’s the goal.

So therefore if if a complaint is small but has a very fair and relatively simple solution, we just ignore it?

It’s called a quick-win, and usually those gets attended to first in any project at the problem solving stage, because they net you the best benefits for effort ratio.

pswendel.8179:

This is the most petty of complaints in a long list of complaints.

Don’t like the fact that you already created an eternity to sell it? Well you made more gold than those who will do so after the patch. The complaints will be reversed in 30 days. Just watch.

Don’t like that your skins are all over the place now? From my point of view they already are, and in a game with no other goal – guess what? That’s the goal.

I’m not disappointed with the coming changes at all. I mean even if this ends up being a negative feature I still think all the changes compensate for it. However, I really don’t like the ’’It’s already broken’’ attitude. If it’s broken it should be fixed instead of made worse.

Wasn’t this topic already discussed at length in a wardrobe feedback thread?

lesliejb.3615:

Wasn’t this topic already discussed at length in a wardrobe feedback thread?

If it was, please include the link to that thread. As mentioned in the original post, I’m unaware of any other section of the forum where this is being discussed.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dual-legendaries-solution/first

Spiderpig.9843:

lesliejb.3615:

Wasn’t this topic already discussed at length in a wardrobe feedback thread?

If it was, please include the link to that thread. As mentioned in the original post, I’m unaware of any other section of the forum where this is being discussed.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Feedback-Questions-Legendaries-in-Wardrobe

Spiderpig.9843:

lesliejb.3615:

Wasn’t this topic already discussed at length in a wardrobe feedback thread?

If it was, please include the link to that thread. As mentioned in the original post, I’m unaware of any other section of the forum where this is being discussed.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Feedback-Questions-The-Wardrobe-System/page/23#post3873645

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Feedback-Questions-Legendaries-in-Wardrobe/page/13#post3850979

Two biggest threads on this. Quite a few smaller threads. No answer from Anet so far.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Spiderpig.9843:

lesliejb.3615:

Wasn’t this topic already discussed at length in a wardrobe feedback thread?

If it was, please include the link to that thread. As mentioned in the original post, I’m unaware of any other section of the forum where this is being discussed.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Feedback-Questions-The-Wardrobe-System/page/23#post3873645

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Feedback-Questions-Legendaries-in-Wardrobe/page/13#post3850979

Two biggest threads on this. Quite a few smaller threads. No answer from Anet so far.

Thanks a lot for the links. I still think this topic is useful however as it zooms into a single problem with the system rather than a bunch at the same time. Nevertheless, I advise everyone to take a look at there topics aswell!

Xae Isareth.1364:

I’m going to ignore that it’s not real life counter-argument, because just because it’s not real life doesn’t mean you don’t draw real life comparisons. It’s why it’s called virtual reality.

I don’t think you understand the intentions of the wardrobe.

-Salvage: Do you forsee anyone salvaging stuff like Infinite Light? Why does salvaging even come into this? Its basically arguing for the the argument’s sake.
-Selling: you can’t resell any other item once you bind it to get its skin.

The whole point of the wardrobe is to let you reuse skins you already own on alts, because the current system is very alt-unfriendly, and to remove the destructive nature of the current system, so we can try out new looks without putting past efforts to waste.

The skin progression doesn’t have anything to do with this. That was thought out under the idea that you still own the resulting item, and thus should have access to its Orr-requisite skins. Selling Eternity means you don’t own Eternity any more, putting that reasoning out of the window.

You are completely missing the broader scope of the picture and my points entirely. You can’t comprehend when I use your own basic logic against you, while other’s seem to understand just fine.

“The whole point of the wardrobe is to let you reuse skins you already own on alts” – your words, keyword in your words is OWN.

From the article on the wardrobe – “Skins can be unlocked by using consumables, equipping items, salvaging equipment, or right-clicking on equipment and account-binding it.” Unlocked skins remain available even if you salvage them, or sell them (like to a merchant). Therefore in these two instances, you no longer OWN those items. However, you still have access to the skins.

This is no different than if you were to equip Twilight then accidentally merch, salavage, or destroy it for whatever reason. You. Would. Still. Retain. The. Skin.

By your logic, if you for any reason no longer OWN the item which gives you that skin (which includes upgrading it to something else), you should not have that skin available. In order to code this, it would need to apply to everything, which would negate the wardrobe entirely. Unless, they coded a concession for legendaries, which leads to a whole different set if issues.

" you bind it to get its skin." again, your words. You bind Twilight, you get it’s skin. You bind Sunrise, you get its skin. You don’t bind eternity, you don’t get its skin. Instead you sell it for 4k or whatever. Its a trade off.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Xae Isareth.1364:

I’m going to ignore that it’s not real life counter-argument, because just because it’s not real life doesn’t mean you don’t draw real life comparisons. It’s why it’s called virtual reality.

I don’t think you understand the intentions of the wardrobe.

-Salvage: Do you forsee anyone salvaging stuff like Infinite Light? Why does salvaging even come into this? Its basically arguing for the the argument’s sake.
-Selling: you can’t resell any other item once you bind it to get its skin.

The whole point of the wardrobe is to let you reuse skins you already own on alts, because the current system is very alt-unfriendly, and to remove the destructive nature of the current system, so we can try out new looks without putting past efforts to waste.

The skin progression doesn’t have anything to do with this. That was thought out under the idea that you still own the resulting item, and thus should have access to its Orr-requisite skins. Selling Eternity means you don’t own Eternity any more, putting that reasoning out of the window.

You are completely missing the broader scope of the picture and my points entirely. You can’t comprehend when I use your own basic logic against you, while other’s seem to understand just fine.

“The whole point of the wardrobe is to let you reuse skins you already own on alts” – your words, keyword in your words is OWN.

From the article on the wardrobe – “Skins can be unlocked by using consumables, equipping items, salvaging equipment, or right-clicking on equipment and account-binding it.” Unlocked skins remain available even if you salvage them, or sell them (like to a merchant). Therefore in these two instances, you no longer OWN those items. However, you still have access to the skins.

This is no different than if you were to equip Twilight then accidentally merch, salavage, or destroy it for whatever reason. You. Would. Still. Retain. The. Skin.

By your logic, if you for any reason no longer OWN the item which gives you that skin (which includes upgrading it to something else), you should not have that skin available. In order to code this, it would need to apply to everything, which would negate the wardrobe entirely. Unless, they coded a concession for legendaries, which leads to a whole different set if issues.

" you bind it to get its skin." again, your words. You bind Twilight, you get it’s skin. You bind Sunrise, you get its skin. You don’t bind eternity, you don’t get its skin. Instead you sell it for 4k or whatever. Its a trade off.

I didn’t quite comprehend your logic but I think you didn’t quite comprehend the whole purpose of that entire paragraph. You’re reading into the tiniest details but did not look at the overall picture as a whole.

The reason why you still have the skin even if you sell/salvage it is because otherwise we’ll need entire alt-fulls of inventory slots to just hold all our skins, not to allow you reap back the costs of making the item.

Call me stupid but form what I understand, you seem to be trying to argue that the wardrobe system is supposed to record skins for every item you ever laid your eyes on. Which I certainly don’t think is the case.

If that’s not the case, then you are arguing a technical detail of the system which hardly is actually relevant to this debate.

You mentioned a tradeoff. I bind Sunrise, I get the skin. I bind Twilight, I get the skin. I sell Eternity, I get most of the money back. Where’s the trade-off? The fraction of the cost of actually buying/crafting Sunrise/Twilight?

If a binding were to be carried over it be better for the player if it were only be carried over if both legendaries were bound. If either or both were unbound the player could still sell eternity.

However, there’s only a handful of players that would be able to do this. It just happens to be related to eternity the most expensive item in the game, so people are trying to make a bug deal about it.

In actuality in the long run this will be be better for the player base’s interest in these 3 legendaries. Perception is that loads of the player base has legendaries, because people show them off on champ trains, dungeons, LA, Vigil keep, and everywhere that you see a lot of players. In actuality a small percentage of the player base as a whole has them, it just looks like everyone does, because the people that do farm champs/dungeons a lot or are TP guys that stand around in LA/Keep a lot anyways.

The impact in the long run will be that twilight and sunrise will be in the upper middle of legendary value, instead of towards the top. This is all because of the perceived cool factor of Swords and Greatsword that they have such high value among their peers, not to mention that their appearance and effects add to the cool factor helping with the value.

It’s a lot about nothing given the overall psychology of the player base regarding legendaries. At best we may see a small amount of people playing more often since they can essentially get 3.5 legendaries for the effort of 2 currently. At worst we have people complaining slightly more than they already do that legendaries aren’t legendary.

Well…Twil and sunrise will rise in price and eternity would drop in price. I believe it would be really big fall. Maybe ill even think about buying it. After all, ill get 3 skins for the price of 1 legendary. Not so bad.

Xae Isareth.1364:

I didn’t quite comprehend your logic but I think you didn’t quite comprehend the whole purpose of that entire paragraph. You’re reading into the tiniest details but did not look at the overall picture as a whole.

Actually no, I was looking at the bigger picture. Not specifically how it only applies to the current legendary issue. How, if the various suggestions were to be applied, it should affect the overall wardrobe, unless they coded a very specific concession for just the legendaries, which really isn’t necessary. Not to mention the more complex the code, the more likely there will be issues (exploits, bugs, etc). I did however take very specific phrases from your exact post to try to make you understand my points, but you still, by your own admission, didn’t understand.

The reason why you still have the skin even if you sell/salvage it is because otherwise we’ll need entire alt-fulls of inventory slots to just hold all our skins, not to allow you reap back the costs of making the item.

I never said the intent of it was to “reap back the costs of making the item.” And yes, you would need sets of alts to hold all those skins. However an exotic ‘skin’ isn’t any different than a ‘legendary’ skin in regards to how you can unlock (record) it for later use.

Call me stupid but form what I understand, you seem to be trying to argue that the wardrobe system is supposed to record skins for every item you ever laid your eyes on. Which I certainly don’t think is the case.

Laid my eyes on, no? Anything I’ve ever equipped, bound, or salvaged (after the patch), yes. Including legendaries.

You mentioned a tradeoff. I bind Sunrise, I get the skin. I bind Twilight, I get the skin. I sell Eternity, I get most of the money back. Where’s the trade-off? The fraction of the cost of actually buying/crafting Sunrise/Twilight?

I laid the trade off out in plain English. You don’t get its skin because you don’t bind it. That’s the trade off. That’s how it works. You make a choice. Do you want the skin, or do you want the gold? The root of your issue (and many others) is basically don’t feel its a big enough trade off because you keep the sub-component skins no matter what your choice. However, the same trade off exists for every other item too – do you bind it for the skin, or sell it for the gold. Obviously people choose to, because there are several on the TP.

The inherent flaw in legendaries is that they are sellable, when they never should have been. Specially considering Ascended is fricking account bound on acquire. However, to change that now, especially if they only did it to Eternity, would be detrimental for them. They may as well just shoot themselves in the foot.

Actually, this got me thinking, wouldn’t it be cool if we could have weapon and armor skin sets unlocked and tied to our accounts much like dyes are? This being an option instead of keeping hoards of armor/weapons in our stash.

I know this likely isn’t going to happen, but essentially the way it’d work is we’d equip whatever armor/weapon we wanted (for the stat combo) then have a separate tab in the hero panel (like dyes), where we can swap the skins on the fly once we’ve unlocked them.

I suppose the way this could work is once you have whatever item you have, an option to maybe right click and “attach skin” to account or something. Doing so would destroy the item. I think this would be a cool idea, but wishful thinking at the same time due to the transmutation stones.

Then again, I’ve never bought any transmutation stones, i’ve only acquired them through general playing and have enough to transform all my characters 10x over. No need to buy them.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Xae Isareth.1364:

I didn’t quite comprehend your logic but I think you didn’t quite comprehend the whole purpose of that entire paragraph. You’re reading into the tiniest details but did not look at the overall picture as a whole.

Actually no, I was looking at the bigger picture. Not specifically how it only applies to the current legendary issue. How, if the various suggestions were to be applied, it should affect the overall wardrobe, unless they coded a very specific concession for just the legendaries, which really isn’t necessary. Not to mention the more complex the code, the more likely there will be issues (exploits, bugs, etc). I did however take very specific phrases from your exact post to try to make you understand my points, but you still, by your own admission, didn’t understand.

I provided a solution to where they can pinpoint it straight down to only Eternities created after the patch. I don’t think changing the recipe to a ‘new’ item is a very complicated code to implement, because as far as I can remember, we didn’t have any problems with items put into the LS, including the back pieces from the MF in the LA patch.

The reason why you still have the skin even if you sell/salvage it is because otherwise we’ll need entire alt-fulls of inventory slots to just hold all our skins, not to allow you reap back the costs of making the item.

I never said the intent of it was to “reap back the costs of making the item.” And yes, you would need sets of alts to hold all those skins. However an exotic ‘skin’ isn’t any different than a ‘legendary’ skin in regards to how you can unlock (record) it for later use.

I never said it was any different.

Call me stupid but form what I understand, you seem to be trying to argue that the wardrobe system is supposed to record skins for every item you ever laid your eyes on. Which I certainly don’t think is the case.

Laid my eyes on, no? Anything I’ve ever equipped, bound, or salvaged (after the patch), yes. Including legendaries.

So you’re saying that the wardrobe should allow you to effectively resell an item and still keep its skin?

The inherent flaw in legendaries is that they are sellable, when they never should have been. Specially considering Ascended is fricking account bound on acquire. However, to change that now, especially if they only did it to Eternity, would be detrimental for them. They may as well just shoot themselves in the foot.

How would that be detrimental? You could still ‘buy’ Eternity through buying Sunrise and Twilight and then forging them even if they make Eternity account-bound. I don’t think anyone makes Eternity from Sunrise and Twilight and sells for a profit. Those who wish to whip out a credit card for Eternity can still do so.

Whether its a flaw is a another argument altogether. It was a design choice. That design choice is not the cause of this issue in itself. It’s because of how Eternity works that’s causing a loophole in the system that’s very likely not intended by the developers, and thus should be closed

You basically strayed so far from what the point of the argument actually is that its becoming very hard to follow the logic of your arguments in this context.

So let me put the argument back on track: is the wardrobe supposed to allow you to get both Sunrise and Twilight at a fraction of their costs? That’s the core question the debate was about.