Guild Wars 2

Id’ be happy enough for now if we at least got a camp of new refugees from Cantha that managed to pass through the now scattered and less organized orrians, and while in there, the music would change to the Canthan tracks.

Obsidian.1328:

Why did NCSoft approve of it whole hog in GW1 then? It doesn’t make sense.

Well, one thing to remember is that (despite federal rulings), companies and corporations AREN’T people. It’s not a static entity with the same people in charge making the same decisions every time. What one executive thinks is okay can do a complete 180 once someone else is making the decision.

And another thing to remember is that the reason NCSoft said “no” is pure speculation. The only thing we know for certain is that NCSoft said “no” (it’s why the Queen’s Jubilee is where the Canthan District was supposed to be, remember). There could be an entirely different reason.

chemiclord.3978:

Obsidian.1328:

Why did NCSoft approve of it whole hog in GW1 then? It doesn’t make sense.

Well, one thing to remember is that (despite federal rulings), companies and corporations AREN’T people. It’s not a static entity with the same people in charge making the same decisions every time. What one executive thinks is okay can do a complete 180 once someone else is making the decision.

And another thing to remember is that the reason NCSoft said “no” is pure speculation. The only thing we know for certain is that NCSoft said “no” (it’s why the Queen’s Jubilee is where the Canthan District was supposed to be, remember). There could be an entirely different reason.

It’s not speculation though: “At one point during development, this area was originally a completed Canthan district and included a blend of Asian architectures. However, this mix of styles received negative feedback from China and Korea, since those gaming markets traditionally prefer a uniform design. Due to time constraints the district was replaced by the Great Collapse.”

“Due to time constraints…”

So with more time…?

Javonovich.5280:

“Due to time constraints…”

So with more time…?

I think that meant that since they had to change it so close to release, a big hole in the ground was the quickest solution. :P

Obsidian.1328:

It’s not speculation though: “At one point during development, this area was originally a completed Canthan district and included a blend of Asian architectures. However, this mix of styles received negative feedback from China and Korea, since those gaming markets traditionally prefer a uniform design. Due to time constraints the district was replaced by the Great Collapse.”

Then why are we having this argument again?

Because if we KNOW why NCSoft did it (personally I’ve never seen confirmation of the italicized), why would you be calling bull kitten? That’s their reason, and if they say “no”, it means “no.” Arena.net can’t do a kittened thing about it other than start over… and that could take a LOT of time to remake everything from scratch.

‘Almost’ being the key phrase there. There have been art (character and maps) and sales differences to accommodate the tastes in Chinese markets.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Zeivu.3615:

They made a unique version of the game for China. Why not make a unique expansion for Koreans and everyone else can get what they want? If anything, I find it more racist that they can’t dare have their culture next to or borrow from a Chinese one, in the same game. You think they don’t slander our ways of life?

The Chinese version of GW2 isn’t unique – it’s almost identical to our version…

chemiclord.3978:

Obsidian.1328:

It’s not speculation though: “At one point during development, this area was originally a completed Canthan district and included a blend of Asian architectures. However, this mix of styles received negative feedback from China and Korea, since those gaming markets traditionally prefer a uniform design. Due to time constraints the district was replaced by the Great Collapse.”

Then why are we having this argument again?

Because if we KNOW why NCSoft did it (personally I’ve never seen confirmation of the italicized), why would you be calling bull kitten? That’s their reason, and if they say “no”, it means “no.” Arena.net can’t do a kittened thing about it other than start over… and that could take a LOT of time to remake everything from scratch.

So either one of two things happened:

• 1) NCSoft somehow managed to hide this from ANet and drop it juuuuust before finalization of the game, and ANet couldn’t do jack squat about it; or
• 2) NCSoft told ANet about it years ago and ANet just kinda said, "Oh well, we can make this work just using 1/3 of Tyria.

If it’s the former, you’re right, it would be hard to blame ANet. If it’s the latter though, that’s a big middle finger by ANet to GW1 in general. Keep in mind that Eye of the North is both a direct prelude to GW2, and decidedly oblivious to anything Canthan or Elonian. And that was 2007…

Even if it’s (2) then what exactly would you propose Arena.net have done instead? Pretend Cantha doesn’t exist? NOT make Guild Wars 2? I really don’t get how it could possibly be Arena.net’s fault that their publisher said, “No Cantha.”

Didnt the Chinese just get a GW2 beta like only a month ago? Anyways if NCSoft was dictating what could or couldnt be in my game I think i’d find another publisher/producer.

The continent of Cantha and Shing Jea island were awe inspiring, facets of my first MMO experience. I was late to the mmo scene, coming from strictly online fps games. Factions was my first step into Guild Wars, and it was a memorable, engaging, serene, diverse expansion that took you to a happy place. Even “irl”. Aside from all the afflicted and gang wars going on, if I could have went there in real life I would have. I could only imagine what it could look and feel like on the new engine. I would work for free If I had the chance, just so I could help do some mapping and layout work in order to speed up the development process. I spent many nights playing, and replaying Factions. To me everything was perfect. Aside from some of the cut scenes/cinematic glitching and the enemies randomly fighting in the background lol. But it was actually kinda cool cause it gave a sense the fight was ongoing while you were negotiating your next battle or strategic move. And I didnt notice the navigational issues. I was used to small corridors. (ie. Unreal Tournament maps..) Yet it was hard to tell where to go, or where you were vertically on the minimap and the area map. The world map should have been interactive also. Like you could have had a little hand to drag and move it to see where the next area was since it only zoomed in and out.

I dont really know what else to say. I would be naive to think that I could ever get that feeling back of first being addicted and having such a cool experience, by having it recreated in a new game. But if it embodied the aspect of the old area in some form, I think it would be nice to have it available in a new light. Not only so I wouldn’t have to regress to the original from time to time, but so that maybe other newcomers with higher expectations (aka my nephew and his friends thought gw1 was lame but they play minecraft & ace of spades..) might come to the game, continent, area; and would possibly get to experience the same thing I did once upon a time.

Finding Sanity.1283:

Didnt the Chinese just get a GW2 beta like only a month ago? Anyways if NCSoft was dictating what could or couldnt be in my game I think i’d find another publisher/producer.

Good luck getting out from under the parent company that owns the rights to the IP you want to take from under them.

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

What could make NCSOFT allow Cantha to still exist and everyone here be happy, is have the nation/continent of Cantha have 5 regions in it, 3 for each nationality in the real world (no more architecture mixing) with their own unique architecture and have the Luxons and Kurzick’s homelands still (they may be defeated by Emp. Usoku, but might still have their culture intact). Many one player RPGs did this with cultures that mimicked real life ones. Golden Sun series in particular (for one player RPGs) and Ragnarok Online as well as a good example for a MMORPG. Look them up!

So with this new idea, you’d have a Chinese styled sub region, a Korean-styled sub region, and a Japnese-styled sub region. Also it will not be one ruler anymore, but three rulers for each region all in a equal standing of government. Like a triarchy and yet backed by a ministry like Kryta that limits their power and voices the peoples needs to them from each of the 5 regions.

My issue with that idea is I don’t think it’d fit with lore. I do think Kurzicks and Luxons should be around but they would probably either be allied factions or enemy factions (preferably allied factions) depending on the position of the Empire. I don’t think it’d be good for the narrative for them to just be magical friends because it’s a way for Cantha to exist. People in real life don’t get along that well, why should we make the game world look so drastically different just because some people would be kitten about it not being a perfect representation of China?

Or, perhaps, extend it even further. Shing Jea Island could be its own region – perhaps seceding from the Empire being faithful to Togo’s teachings which included letting the Kurzicks, Luxons and Tengu be. At least then there would be narrative elements they could probably tie in and “fix” the Dragon Empire.

I just see no reason to drastically change the lore to try and satisfy everyone.

pixiedancer.1526:

It’s not often I post on the forums or ever, I tend to have a very blunt opinion and once people are offended they don’t use logic or common sense but here goes. This is directed at the people complaining on the behalf of us “foreigners.”

Most of the people that seem to get offended by the concept of Cantha on these forums are keyboard warriors that feel the need to social justice for other people. Stop it.

Do you think the every eastern country, every eastern person is so backwards, so stupid that they don’t know what to be offended over? You think we need -you- to fight for us? We need you to save the day? No? Good.

Nothing I’ve found is more offensive than being patronized like that.

Do you want to know what will get Cantha canceled? People moaning on the forums for a culture they don’t even understand, how many of the complainers speak fluent Mandarin? How many of them even know how to use chop sticks or have ever visited any of China’s provinces?

Sure there might be vocal minority of people from eastern cultures that are overly sensitive to westerners, but you know what? The only people in my home country I know that might even be slightly offended are hardcore nationalists that are racist bigots themselves. They wouldn’t pee on you if you were on fire.

—
Anyways, that aside.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Blizzard-WoW-China-MoP-Pandaria,17423.html

^ Was approved by the Chinese government, the biggest cache of poorly done eastern stereotypes that mixes Chinese themes to create the Pandaren, basically what the uneducated think China is.

Cantha had a lot more class than that, we didn’t see any goofy stereotypes, anything ridiculous and yes I know the lore of the Emperor. It really isn’t that bad.

This is extremely well-said and I’m very glad you took the time to post it. =)

For what it’s worth, I’m not defending NCSoft’s decision at all. I do think there’s some merit to the concern, but not nearly as much as they seem to be worried about.

What I’ve been rolling my eyes at is the idea that if Arena.net would just “stand their ground” they could somehow force NCSoft to publish a Canthan expansion or Canthan content.

All I can say is the only reason why I’ve even been on GW2 since day one was the reason of me waiting for Cantha Fractions Luxons Kurzicks to come into GW2 if there not in GW2 than I’m done with this game.

chemiclord.3978:

Even if it’s (2) then what exactly would you propose Arena.net have done instead? NOT make Guild Wars 2?

Yes.

Obsidian.1328:

chemiclord.3978:

Even if it’s (2) then what exactly would you propose Arena.net have done instead? NOT make Guild Wars 2?

Yes.

Then you’re being wholly irrational and unreasonable. There is absolutely no way they DON’T make a game. That’s just ridiculous.

Just wondering, if Cantha will ever come out sometime in the future? whether it’ll be a year from now, months, etc.

All I’ve seen is that it’s a “Possibility” and not a very good one and that was over a year ago, so is there any news on this topic?

I’m sure a lot of other players would like to know too, and i’m not asking for it to come out this year (the living story is no where near Cantha) but will we ever see Cantha in gw2? Tired of speculation and no real answers, a lot of people would be happy to see it again.

I would prefer any other place, rather than Cantha.

There’s a Cantha Thread that was created over a year ago, with no real answers, and with MANY people wanting Cantha in gw2, but thanks for your opinion.

I would kill for any expansion so…

Which answer you want? These are probably the only things you’d get from a dev response.
“Nothings off the table”
“When its ready”

A definitive yes.

Doesn’t matter when it comes out, we all just want an answer and not that up there ^

Shift Focus.9083:

There’s a Cantha Thread that was created over a year ago, with no real answers, and with MANY people wanting Cantha in gw2, but thanks for your opinion.

They why put another post out?

Because they completely ignore that thread.

Well, there’s our answer folks, my thread was merged here like everyone elses and no REAL answers yet again -_- this is disappointing

Cantha is confirmed, the timing is still unknown

Where does it say it’s confirmed? Can you link it please, because so far all i’ve seen is Arena net giving us the run around like usual….

Yep shot down again, oh well XD I already lowered my expectations since it’s already a year and a half since release and all we got was 1 actual permanent pve map (south sun cove) since release.

chemiclord.3978:

Obsidian.1328:

chemiclord.3978:

Even if it’s (2) then what exactly would you propose Arena.net have done instead? NOT make Guild Wars 2?

Yes.

Then you’re being wholly irrational and unreasonable. There is absolutely no way they DON’T make a game. That’s just ridiculous.

Not really.

If a publisher orders you to not include most of your previous work, should you bow out? Absolutely. How would you react if an art dealer tells you to only show a 3rd of your painting? ANet could have simply refused, lost NCSoft as a publisher, and waited until they found another. Does that suck? Yes. Does it mean a lot of people might have to take a pay hit? Yes.

But at least they get to keep their integrity.

Obsidian.1328:

Not really.

If a publisher orders you to not include most of your previous work, should you bow out? Absolutely. How would you react if an art dealer tells you to only show a 3rd of your painting? ANet could have simply refused, lost NCSoft as a publisher, and waited until they found another. Does that suck? Yes. Does it mean a lot of people might have to take a pay hit? Yes.

But at least they get to keep their integrity.

Integrity and $5 might get you a decent latte in the Seattle area. Maybe.

You don’t pay bills with integrity. You don’t keep people employed with integrity. You do those things by producing things people will buy.

And you seem to be forgetting that NCSoft is more than Arena.net’s publisher. They are Arena.net’s PARENT COMPANY. Arena.net CAN’T refuse. The people there wouldn’t lose their publisher. They’d lose their jobs.

They wouldn’t be able to find another publisher, because the Guild Wars IP is the property of NCSoft. That’s kinda what happens when you… well… BUY Arena.net whole hog.

Guild Wars 2 was going to be made, and it was going to be made by whatever terms NCSoft demanded. If that demand was “No Cantha”, then guess what? Guild Wars 2 was going to be made without Cantha. Period.

You have set a standard Arena.net could not meet, and are blaming them for not meeting it. That is pretty much a dictionary definition of “unreasonable.”

None of this crap makes any sense. There is Pandaria, Age of Wusu, Silk Road, Blade and Soul and a whole host of F2P Asian themed titles for which there is no public outrage. Pick one Asian style and stick with it, if that’s the issue. Something doesn’t add up here.

Create the continent in the style of Zephyr Sanctum even.

psyt.9415:

None of this crap makes any sense. There is Pandaria, Age of Wusu, Silk Road, Blade and Soul and a whole host of F2P Asian themed titles for which there is no public outrage. Pick one Asian style and stick with it, if that’s the issue. Something doesn’t add up here.

Create the continent in the style of Zephyr Sanctum even.

What is sounds like is one executive at NCSoft got his panties in a twist, and got enough of the company to support his worry that Cantha like it was portrayed in Guild Wars 1 would upset players in China (where a lot of big money for a MMO can be found).

Whether that fear is rational or not (and I’m steadily leaning towards not rational the more I read up on the issue) is irrelevant on Arena.net’s side. They don’t have a choice in the matter. If your parent company tells you to do (or not do) something, there’s no debate. There is no “standing your ground”; there is no “keeping your integrity.” It is “you do it” or “you’re fired.”

It’s a big problem when it comes to “AAA” business. Those big publishers effectively force you to sell your soul to them in order to get the resources necessary to make those “AAA” titles. That tide is changing (slowly), but in 2006, there really weren’t any other avenues for a company like Arena.net.

chemiclord.3978:

Finding Sanity.1283:

Didnt the Chinese just get a GW2 beta like only a month ago? Anyways if NCSoft was dictating what could or couldnt be in my game I think i’d find another publisher/producer.

Good luck getting out from under the parent company that owns the rights to the IP you want to take from under them.

True. But if all it amounts to is making the chinese kitten (since ncsoft is korean, may be quite possibly why they dont want it in the game because afaik they dont like china deep down..) Most of Cantha wasnt all asian. It was just Togo, Shiro, Shing Jea, Kaineng, the Imperial, the emperor.. santa and the easter bunny… and a few other hundred bits and pieces… The rest was dominated by the Kurzick and Luxxon story til the end then it jumped back primarily to Shiro and Kaineng city and the imperial stuff. Which all thats over with as far as we know. Maybe the other factions finally got fed up (aka us) and took over. And they have new issues they need help with. iirc some of the destroyer stuff and nightfall mess happened in cantha too. (i dont want to see another afflicted EVER!)

Make it Korean themed if you have to or leave it (chinese culture) out altogether. But keep the core things that made Cantha familiar. The slums, gangs, kurzick and luxxon (or maybe they faded out or took over), echovald forest, eternal grove, arborstone, house zu heltzer could be a disco inferno.. Jade Sea a ice skating rink, etc.

Shouldnt be too hard to dodge the politics without degrading the lore so bad that it feels like your playing the sims or something instead of guild wars. Then again, since ncsoft plan (long term?) to keep chinese players interest in the game, a korean themed Kaineng and Shing Jea would be a big ol corncob in the thing also. Im not familiar with all the lore but im sure something could work to bring a familiar place back to life again. If not.. Then oh well. It wouldnt make me not play the game if something else came along. Because I can log into gw1 and hang out if I want to be there. Yet it would be a shame that part of Guild Wars history is left on the shelf and we’d never get to see it brought back to life and the missing lore after “1127 AE: Emperor Usoku defeats the Kurzicks and the Luxon, unifies Cantha and begins purging non-humans and political enemies”. Is divulged.
But Im afraid it wont be (if ever) until after we face Mordremoth and more of Krytan story/lore. Since that part of GW is neutral. Unless the desert people of the middle east and jungle tribes of the amazon get offended by it… But hey, theres always WoW right?!.. right?…. err.. yeah.. ok, gnite.

I think really THAT is the issue. I really don’t think it’s “No Cantha. Full stop.” I think it’s “No Cantha unless we (NCSoft) okay it.” I suspect they have to go back and pretty much rebuild everything they were going to do with Cantha from square one. Bear in mind it took GW2 roughly SIX YEARS to get just to a point where it could be released (and some would argue still not even close to complete).

That’s also probably where you get the few developer comments of “a few years down the road” from. I’m sure Arena.net would love to go back to Cantha, and I bet NCSoft isn’t inherently against them going there either. But both sides realize that it’s going to take a very long time to get there, especially considering they are still developing the game currently in front of them.

I also suspect that has a lot to do with the silence from Arena.net on this score. We’ve all seen how rabid fans can get when things don’t go exactly as “promised.” The LAST thing Arena.net wants to do is say, “Yeah, we’re working on Cantha and we’d love to have it ready by [insert year here].” Because no matter how many qualifiers they’d put to such a statement, if they weren’t ready to release Cantha at 12:00 PST on January 1st of that year… you know as well as I do that there would be unholy hell to pay from an army of irate fans burning this forum to the ground.

I just wanted to join the masses that demand Cantha!
Factions is what introduced me to the Guild Wars franchise. I would cry tears of joy if they would bring back Cantha at some point. Guild Wars Factions is my favourite game of all time!

WTB response from Colin.

Cantha in next years expac.

chemiclord.3978:

Obsidian.1328:

Not really.

If a publisher orders you to not include most of your previous work, should you bow out? Absolutely. How would you react if an art dealer tells you to only show a 3rd of your painting? ANet could have simply refused, lost NCSoft as a publisher, and waited until they found another. Does that suck? Yes. Does it mean a lot of people might have to take a pay hit? Yes.

But at least they get to keep their integrity.

Integrity and $5 might get you a decent latte in the Seattle area. Maybe.

You don’t pay bills with integrity. You don’t keep people employed with integrity. You do those things by producing things people will buy.

And you seem to be forgetting that NCSoft is more than Arena.net’s publisher. They are Arena.net’s PARENT COMPANY. Arena.net CAN’T refuse. The people there wouldn’t lose their publisher. They’d lose their jobs.

They wouldn’t be able to find another publisher, because the Guild Wars IP is the property of NCSoft. That’s kinda what happens when you… well… BUY Arena.net whole hog.

Guild Wars 2 was going to be made, and it was going to be made by whatever terms NCSoft demanded. If that demand was “No Cantha”, then guess what? Guild Wars 2 was going to be made without Cantha. Period.

You have set a standard Arena.net could not meet, and are blaming them for not meeting it. That is pretty much a dictionary definition of “unreasonable.”

Why couldn’t they meet it? If it were me I would quit. Latte’s are $3 around here.

Now that I think about it, a hefty chunk of ANet did quit @2007. Coincidence?

WTB Cantha, pm best offer.

Omne.4603:

WTB response from Colin.

Jado Cast.1805:

Viking Jorun.5413:

I don’t get the offense of mixing different Asian cultures to achieve an entirely new one. Cantha is not Chinese, Korean, or Japanese. It’s Cantha. The sooner NCSoft comes to accept it as it’s own culture within a fantasy world, the sooner development can begin on it. ^^

I totally understand why they would be offended. It would be like having various types of various Western Cultures, like mixing Norse, Greek, Roman, and Celtic Mythologies/Stories and Influences in Tyria. That would be very offensive to me and my Western Culture. Oh WAIT, now I’m OFFENDED!

I don’t know, I thought Skyrim sold pretty well.

WTB response from Colin.

Do it now, bring in Tengu!

I promise you will not regret it Anet.

Main theme of Guild Wars Factions
(probably not the first post with it)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMvcglKzCgE

Sad that they can only be seen in-game on maps.

>.> It’s like it’s supposed to give us hope…

Lore wise, pretty sure there’s other dragons (like Zhatin) on those contents that “block” passage… or something like that… I know I read it somewhere…

Ah yes, I am among those wishing I could see those places again in GW2.

i wonder how much has changed since the rising of orr…(if anything)

In terms of Cantha, the petrified forest has begun to turn back and the jade sea has “melted” or whatever process to return to liquid.

In terms of Elona, Palawa Joko blocked the river and flooded quite a bit of it I believe.

There’s more in depth info in the wiki