Guild Wars 2

Bunch of narrow-minded people here, huh…

It’s certainly not the best marketing, but it’s original. :-)

Some people really need to complain about everything.

eye-roll!

Kraljevo.2801:

Bunch of narrow-minded people here, huh…

It’s certainly not the best marketing, but it’s original. :-)

Some people really need to complain about everything.

eye-roll!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_pot_calling_the_kettle_black

Dark Catalyst.1028:

At this point, WoW follows the GW2 “manifesto” more closely than GW2 itself with WoW’s current and upcoming changes.

That’s because Blizzard takes game designs from other companies and simply does it better than everyone else.

Finnway.2183:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

At this point, WoW follows the GW2 “manifesto” more closely than GW2 itself with WoW’s current and upcoming changes.

That’s because Blizzard takes game designs from other companies and simply does it better than everyone else.

No complaints from me. Take what people want, whatever works really, and implement it.

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Fernling.1729:

Vayne.8563:

Spawne.3128:

So in other words, good by GW2 come Q1 2014. Oh well, had a good run and some potential.

Guess you haven’t played any of the other betas. The grass isn’t always greener. You think this forum is dark, you should see the stuff being said about ESO.

I find it rather interesting that you say that. I’ve been in several of their betas, including the most recent one and it appears to me that the vast majority are saying good things about it. That is including in game and forums. It definitely isn’t my cup of tea, but can see why people like it.

I’d look at the reddit thread. It’s literally being torn apart. And I’m not the only one saying this. But believe what you like.

Just remember, people said the same stuff about GW 2 before release and a year later look what they’re saying. People said the same thing about SWToR and look what they’re saying.

We’ll see what we’ll see, but most of the games when they finally come out will have to compete with a two year old MMO and most of them will be buggy, not have enough content and will be desperate for market share, which will make for some interesting errors along the way as well.

I don’t get your point. ESO is indeed also getting a lot of negative feedback. The other new MMO’s not so much but maybe that means ESO is also doing some things not good and they should listen to the negative feedback.

I did play some alpha and I was fun but a very traditional mmo + sub-fee. That plus the fact that people know it will not have the singplayer feeling is the reason for many of the complains. I think if they would go for a B2P model (not the micro-transaction model GW2 is now using but the B2P model as we did see in GW1) many of the complains will stop.

Most likely we will now see ESO being released and then soon having to go F2P. So yes there are also other games that are getting complains but that does not mean the complains are not fair. GW2 has proven those complains should be listened to. Many people have been saying the living story (they way Anet did it) would only scare people away. Anet did not listen and now it looks like many people are leaving. If Anet only had listened.

I love how people think if devs would only listen to people the game would be better. I hate to break it to you, mate, but the devs have listened to people. They didn’t listen to the people you agree with. For every person who says they should have duels in the game, for example, another says they shouldn’t. For every person who says that there should be harder more challenging content, someone says the game is too hard. For every person who says they hate zerging, someone says to leave zerging alone.

This illusionary consensus people keep talking about is just that….illusionary. It doesn’t exist.

Everyone likes to think their point of view is the majority point of view. We can’t all be right.

Oow big groups of consensus people about certain subjects (like living story, grinding and so on) exist for sure, there are however a few people (Anet seems to be part of that group) that do see many complains about certain subjects and then make it go away from them-self by saying exactly what you now say or by talking about a loud minority.

But then again the truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

Oh I didn’t see this post while I was posting mine… I guess I will just copy and paste my content here:

To Tyria Officials,

You provide an example of the “Guild Wars 2 Oath” for the recent “Great Migration” campaign, and I found part of it is offensive and misleading. The example are shown below:

“I, Lord Bunnyman, renounce boring games and pledge allegiance to Guild Wars 2. I likewise declare my freedom from unjust subscription fees! That I turn my back forever on grind which is/are totally lame. That I will take up arms to defend the innocent and crush evil with my huge sword. I take this oath to Guild Wars 2 freely, without reservation because I am awesome.”

Please notice that part that mentioned how lame grind is. As far as I know, gw2 is not grind-free and it might even be on the list of “mmorpgs with most serious grind”. Although this only serve as an example, namely an idea to show how to word it, it is misleading to some extent.

I feel offended since I migrated to Tyria hoping for a grind-free place, as advertised by Tyria land owners, at the very beginning. After an year-long experience dealing with Tyria’s officials and Tyria itself, I have to say that my experience is very disappointing regarding the grind. I paid for the visa to Tyria back then, and only if I knew this place will not live to my expectation, I would not have to abandon my family so that I can move here.

I, as a current resident of Tyria, would like to see the grind part get replace with other aspect of this game , for I know that the truth behind this propaganda is not as describe. I do welcome new comers and will help them settle with all my strenght. But fooling potential immigrants is the last thing you want to do as land owner. I hope you could reconsider the situation in order to possibly retain you reputation in the hearts of new-comers.

Sincerely,
A humble resident

AH-HAH! So this is where that illusive expansion money went!

Buying two cabs, refurbishing them to look like fantasy hippies’ cars, and making some people wear cosplay… I wonder if the fees the police assessed for taxi driver impersonation with fake licenses are the main reason we’re stuck with Scarlet and the bi-weekly Dying Story.

So…some people are saying that because Anet wants to advertise their game by making a contest and putting it on sale for 40% off, it somehow shows desperation? Christmas is coming up, I’m almost certain that the reason why they’re doing all of this, is to get people to buy the game during the Holiday season…like one million other companies right now. It’s called marketing.

The contest itself is goofy (the video and the actual contest), but whatever. I don’t pay attention to marketing often and I don’t care how a game is marketed. All that matters is what the game itself is like.

If this reaches big mmo news, such brute force is gonna make the opposite of what’s expected : serious backlash against GW2, and why people don’t want to play it anymore.

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne.8563:

I love how people think if devs would only listen to people the game would be better. I hate to break it to you, mate, but the devs have listened to people. They didn’t listen to the people you agree with. For every person who says they should have duels in the game, for example, another says they shouldn’t. For every person who says that there should be harder more challenging content, someone says the game is too hard. For every person who says they hate zerging, someone says to leave zerging alone.

This illusionary consensus people keep talking about is just that….illusionary. It doesn’t exist.

Everyone likes to think their point of view is the majority point of view. We can’t all be right.

No, but there is such a thing as a general consensus, or even a majority one. You make it sound like everything is equal parts pro and con and that’s just not the case. You’re right it’s hard to judge which opinions reflect obscurity and which reflect commonality based just on these forums. But to simply say the validity of most everyone’s point of view is illusionary is silly.

The point is to find some kind of consensual truth in all of this. That’s not an impossible thing.

It’s absolutely an impossible thing. The average number of people who visit game forums at all who play a game according to most polls is about 15%. Of those 15%, only a small percentage post. So the general consensus of everyone where? On the forums? Chatting in games? In Guilds?

There are things that have been done to this game that have been done because of the general consensus and I’m pretty sure they haven’t made the game a better game. Champ bags, for example, leading to the champ train have not made this a better game. It’s made this a better game for people who like that sort of thing and a worse game for just about everyone else.

There’s just no way that a general consensus could be reached and if it could there’s no way to prove that following the general consensus would make the game better anyway.

Vayne.8563:

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne.8563:

I love how people think if devs would only listen to people the game would be better. I hate to break it to you, mate, but the devs have listened to people. They didn’t listen to the people you agree with. For every person who says they should have duels in the game, for example, another says they shouldn’t. For every person who says that there should be harder more challenging content, someone says the game is too hard. For every person who says they hate zerging, someone says to leave zerging alone.

This illusionary consensus people keep talking about is just that….illusionary. It doesn’t exist.

Everyone likes to think their point of view is the majority point of view. We can’t all be right.

No, but there is such a thing as a general consensus, or even a majority one. You make it sound like everything is equal parts pro and con and that’s just not the case. You’re right it’s hard to judge which opinions reflect obscurity and which reflect commonality based just on these forums. But to simply say the validity of most everyone’s point of view is illusionary is silly.

The point is to find some kind of consensual truth in all of this. That’s not an impossible thing.

It’s absolutely an impossible thing. The average number of people who visit game forums at all who play a game according to most polls is about 15%. Of those 15%, only a small percentage post. So the general consensus of everyone where? On the forums? Chatting in games? In Guilds?

There are things that have been done to this game that have been done because of the general consensus and I’m pretty sure they haven’t made the game a better game. Champ bags, for example, leading to the champ train have not made this a better game. It’s made this a better game for people who like that sort of thing and a worse game for just about everyone else.

There’s just no way that a general consensus could be reached and if it could there’s no way to prove that following the general consensus would make the game better anyway.

As the saying goes a platypus is a duck designed by committee.

I disagree with Vayne alot, but I have to agree with him here. Its hard to buy that you can come to a general, or majority, consensus based on the opinions of a very tiny fraction of the whole, particularly when using a medium (game forums) which tend to be biased to the negative as people happy with the game are like as not playing rather than dwelling on the forum.

It would be like going to a PETA rally to determine the general consensus on whether or not salads are better than burgers.

I thought it was cute.

Btw… I live near Santa Monica in LA… and I’m sure that’s not the weirdest thing they saw that day.

some one at ANet approved this, and they can vote … maybe?

Good video. I totally support GW2’s modo of doing away with subscription fee’s. Since playing GW2 I have uninstalled all of the other mmo’s I was playing at the time, accept for 1 that gives you a choice to buy new content when released instead of subscribing. But yeah, I hope GW2 puts a strangle hold on the industry.

“Hello, 911? I think I’m being kidnapped…”

Relax…..

It was super cute =)

Ashen.2907:

I disagree with Vayne alot, but I have to agree with him here. Its hard to buy that you can come to a general, or majority, consensus based on the opinions of a very tiny fraction of the whole, particularly when using a medium (game forums) which tend to be biased to the negative as people happy with the game are like as not playing rather than dwelling on the forum.

It would be like going to a PETA rally to determine the general consensus on whether or not salads are better than burgers.

That just looking at a forum will not give you the factual numbers is correct but that does not mean that there are big group agreeing about a subject. And I am pretty sure the way they do the living story is one of them. Some post it here, some just ignore it, some wait for better times and some just leave the game, but indeed not everybody is active on the forum so it does not show the exact number, that however does not mean that then big groups of agreeing people don’t exist.

And there will also be people thats simply don’t like the game anymore. They can’t tell you why but they simply don’t like it and also leave. The reason why they don’t like it exist, even do they don’t know it themselfs.

A general consensus (like if every single person agrees) yeah that does not exist but thats then maybe something Vayne comes with to strengthen his point while it doesn’t because nobody says everybody agrees on one single point.

Ashen.2907:

I disagree with Vayne alot, but I have to agree with him here. Its hard to buy that you can come to a general, or majority, consensus based on the opinions of a very tiny fraction of the whole, particularly when using a medium (game forums) which tend to be biased to the negative as people happy with the game are like as not playing rather than dwelling on the forum.

It would be like going to a PETA rally to determine the general consensus on whether or not salads are better than burgers.

Check this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Will-it-happen-again/page/2#post3281636

Aperantly Anet can make a mistake according to Vayne but then why is it a mistake? Because there exist a general, or majority, consensus? But that does not exist according to Vayne. But that does not exist according to him. Or at least it can not be determent.

However now Anet in this case seem to have listened to the people of course it is a good thing that Anet does. While here the plee seemed to be Anet should not listen because there does not exist something like a general, or majority, consensus?

It really comes down to defending Anet for the sake of defending it. However that might be because of some blind love. Not judging about that, however it shows that it’s not just based on some logic. If Anet did exactly the opposite (like they did with the skins) and said they did listen to the complains we would see Vayne here defending that. And thats to bad because I don’t mind having a discussion with somebody who truly disagrees about something but it should at leased be driven by some logic and not by blind love.

(or a paycheck)

I thought the video was cute and original. The contest requirements on the other hand seem incredibly awkward…

I thought it was pretty funny.

Well, I wouldn’t join the game for a reason like this, but it’s still pretty funny. I’m not sure why it is being overanalyzed so much, it’s just a harmless PR trick that doesn’t affect players already playing.

Amethyst Lure.5624:

Well, I wouldn’t join the game for a reason like this, but it’s still pretty funny. I’m not sure why it is being overanalyzed so much, it’s just a harmless PR trick that doesn’t affect players already playing.

It doesn’t? It’s shows them as a bunch of crazy people. Like, you see this is the sort of people playing our game, come and join us.

Devata.6589:

That just looking at a forum will not give you the factual numbers is correct but that does not mean that there are big group agreeing about a subject. And I am pretty sure the way they do the living story is one of them. Some post it here, some just ignore it, some wait for better times and some just leave the game, but indeed not everybody is active on the forum so it does not show the exact number, that however does not mean that then big groups of agreeing people don’t exist.

No one is claiming that big groups of people don’t exist here. If the claim was that a big group of people do not like “x” the statement would be fine. Claims of majority and/or general consensus, based on tiny samples taken without any controls are what is being disputed.

Devata.6589:

And there will also be people thats simply don’t like the game anymore. They can’t tell you why but they simply don’t like it and also leave. The reason why they don’t like it exist, even do they don’t know it themselfs.

If you they do not know why they left you and I certainly do not so attempting to in any way portray their departure as support for either side of the discussion is a bad idea.

Devata.6589:

A general consensus (like if every single person agrees) yeah that does not exist but thats then maybe something Vayne comes with to strengthen his point while it doesn’t because nobody says everybody agrees on one single point.

I am not really certain what this sentence means. It seems to be saying that Vayne was right in claiming that there is no general consensus measurable from a fraction of a tiny fraction of the player base on a medium whose implementation tends to attract negative view points.

The video made me smile, and it made the people in the cab smile.. isn’t that all that counts

RVONW.4965:

The video made me smile, and it made the people in the cab smile.. isn’t that all that counts

It is funny, as a video, but again everyone is forgetting this is a marketing campaign, it expands a lot bigger then just the video. I would actually like to see the outtakes of that video to see how many people got in that cab and either got right out, or had no idea what she was talking about and why, and told her to just drive the kitten cab. lol

Devata.6589:

Check this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Will-it-happen-again/page/2#post3281636

Aperantly Anet can make a mistake according to Vayne but then why is it a mistake? Because there exist a general, or majority, consensus? But that does not exist according to Vayne. But that does not exist according to him. Or at least it can not be determent.

A majority or general consensus is not required for something to be a mistake. According to ANet the implementation of the skin was unintended. If everyone had loved it it would still have been a mistake (according to ANet), just a fortuitous one.

Devata.6589:

However now Anet in this case seem to have listened to the people of course it is a good thing that Anet does. While here the plee seemed to be Anet should not listen because there does not exist something like a general, or majority, consensus?

Attempting to please your customers, even if they do not represent a majority or general consensus is a good idea. There will be two sides to any issue however and the difficult part will likely be balancing the desires of one group against the other.

Devata.6589:

It really comes down to defending Anet for the sake of defending it. However that might be because of some blind love. Not judging about that, however it shows that it’s not just based on some logic. If Anet did exactly the opposite (like they did with the skins) and said they did listen to the complains we would see Vayne here defending that. And thats to bad because I don’t mind having a discussion with somebody who truly disagrees about something but it should at leased be driven by some logic and not by blind love.

(or a paycheck)

Its not defending ANet for the sake of defending ANet to point out mistaken assumptions or claims in arguments. If someone were to claim that the majority were happy with the video or with the armor based on such a tiny sample I would still question their claim. Personally I do not like ANet as a company in its current form. You speak of the a discussion based on logic (rather than blind love) and yet seem to be supporting people inventing numbers in order to support their position. Every time someone argues that a, “majority,” support X they are saying that at least 51% do so, and yet cannot support that number, and in fact are making the claim without access to the data needed to support it. Yeah, that is the logical side of the argument ; )

I was greatly offended by the parody of The New Colossus; it felt like a spit in the face.
A work symbolizing the struggles of those looking to provide a better life for their families is not an acceptable target for a poor attempt at viral marketing.

Redenaz.8631:

Oh, and that spin on The New Colossus is a very tasteful comparison. I mean, on one hand, we have actual poor, tired immigrants, and on the other, we have a contest that can save you $30 on a game by recording yourself pledging allegiance to a game you very likely haven’t played before. I got on a guy a while back for appropriating FDR’s Infamy Speech in his complaint about the introduction of ascended gear to the game, and this isn’t any better.

This isn’t anywhere near the worst marketing campaign I’ve see for a game, but I’m disappointed to see GW2 rolling with it. If marketing wants to engage players by dramatizing the struggle against the dragons, or the frequently evolving world, that’s great, but if they’re going to dramatize the business model, I see no reason for players not to be just as dramatic about imagined injustices like gem store armor, ascended gear, grind, etc.

Edit: The video looked silly and fun. It’s…basically the rest of it that I’m rolling my eyes at.

Xae Isareth.1364:

And then I look at all of Wildstar’s gameplay videos, and the only impression I get is that its WoW in space, down to the horrid art design. The first question I then ask myself is, what makes this better than WoW? If I wanted to play a WoW-clone, I’d go for the original, with 10 years or however it is now more content, and a company which can buy up small countries financing it, as opposed to play a copy of WoW made by a developer I’ve never heard of.

A developer who’s mostly composed by people that actually made WoW 10 years ago.
And about the differences? Dinamic action combat, for real this time, non the zerker autoattack faceroll you’re used here in GW2, a combat where crowd control matters and every important fight has it’s own mechanic.
And the sci-fi theme, not everyone is ONLY into Tolkien like fantasy or pseudo-asian fantasy (you know, like here in GW2 when you have high fantasy mixed with quaggan backpacks and fake wings).
And horrid game design? What about an engine who in beta is way more optimized than GW2 one year later? Then again, the cartoonish style can be liked or not, but it’s not horrid just because you like more the manga-big boobed character of GW2… Along with clipping armors (wich are also ugly in 90% of cases, but that’s my opinion)

I’m curious when things cross over into the realm of false advertisement. I’ve been playing MMO’s a long time. This is probably the most grind filled game in the lot, except of course old style mmo’s like EQ1 and FFXI, where grinding was life.

This game is decent, but it’s nothing it advertises to be. New content every 2 weeks? you mean the crap everyone is sick of and thus demanding an expansion for real content? Or the fact that 99% of new skins are via cash shop?

Nice ad.

Valanga.5942:

Xae Isareth.1364:

And then I look at all of Wildstar’s gameplay videos, and the only impression I get is that its WoW in space, down to the horrid art design. The first question I then ask myself is, what makes this better than WoW? If I wanted to play a WoW-clone, I’d go for the original, with 10 years or however it is now more content, and a company which can buy up small countries financing it, as opposed to play a copy of WoW made by a developer I’ve never heard of.

A developer who’s mostly composed by people that actually made WoW 10 years ago.
And about the differences? Dinamic action combat, for real this time, non the zerker autoattack faceroll you’re used here in GW2, a combat where crowd control matters and every important fight has it’s own mechanic.
And the sci-fi theme, not everyone is ONLY into Tolkien like fantasy or pseudo-asian fantasy (you know, like here in GW2 when you have high fantasy mixed with quaggan backpacks and fake wings).
And horrid game design? What about an engine who in beta is way more optimized than GW2 one year later? Then again, the cartoonish style can be liked or not, but it’s not horrid just because you like more the manga-big boobed character of GW2… Along with clipping armors (wich are also ugly in 90% of cases, but that’s my opinion)

From what I’ve seen, Wildstar’s combat is about dynamic as WoW’s is. Its real time and dynamic, as in, you need to move and its not turnbased, but it certainly is nothing like GW2, TERA, Vindictus or B&B’s. It has a sprint feature but that’s about it. Not a bad thing but I can’t get myself to call that dynamic anymore.

As for every fight having its own mechanic. Every mechanic thus far I’ve seen is an elaboration on moving out of the red circle. The red pentagon, the red circle that moves, the red circle that follow you, or the red circle which you actually need to stay in, and etc. The only none red circle mechanic I’ve seen is that boss where you need to navigate through whirlwinds to him and interrupt through his ‘Interrupt Armor’ before he charges up a party wipe attack: the dev comment was ‘if we let you CC him all the time, he won;t be able to do anything through the fight’, and the first thing that popped into my mind was ‘oh boy, there’s Defiance rearing its ugly head again’.

I never said I only liked high fantasy. In fact, TSW is my favorite MMO of all time in terms of the setting and plot. Like I said, Wildstar isn’t WoW, its WoW in space.

Autoattack facerolls only really happen in either very basic or open-world content, its simply seems that way because people mostly do AC3, CoF1, etc. Also, I thought we were talking about Wildstar vs WoW.

When did I say anything about game design? WoW was and still is, one of the finest MMOs I’ve ever played, but making a character called Zario and putting him in the Potato Kingdom doesn’t personally make me want to pick up your game.

How do you know its optimized? GW2 was very optimised until 200 people clashed all at once in WvW. We haven’t seen what Wildstar’s is going to be like when that many people all clash at once.

First of all, GW2 is not manga-like. I don’t even need to go into anymore detail. Apologies, I was using the wrong word here. I don’t mind things being cartoony. I loved Okami’s artstyle. But looking at Wildstar, its just cheap. The texturing looks horrendous, and everything just looks like the cheap F2P cell-shaded MMOs you find a dime a dozen. It looks outdated just like WoW’s is now.

Oh, those feelings feel so nostalgic!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyGv8XtKJc4

This is just really sad and desperate in my opinion :-/

My beef isn’t about the cosplay (as others suggest is the most embarrassing part) – I’m not into cosplay myself because it doesn’t float my boat, but rather, the methods in trying to get more players just screamed ‘desperate’ and ‘sad’. From my perspective, I think it would have been more appropriate to do this at a gaming convention or something where you’re more likely to get gamers as your target audience, not random people that are probably on a holiday or traveling to work, wondering if the driver is truly sane.

I haven’t gone through the entire thread, but I have a serious question for those playing in the EU and USA.

Asides online advertisements, when it comes to advertising/promoting for GW2 do you have any other types of advertising where you live, or have you seen any other advertising around other than in game stores?

This is a pretty cool thing actually:) I like it! It would be cool to happen to pick that cap as a current Tyrian… The conversation could be so cool!

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

I haven’t gone through the entire thread, but I have a serious question for those playing in the EU and USA.

Asides online advertisements, when it comes to advertising/promoting for GW2 do you have any other types of advertising where you live, or have you seen any other advertising around other than in game stores?

No. Absolutely nothing here in Germany. That I said I neither watch TV, noir especially look out for Ads in any medium at all. Thought, I don’t think they should need to do that. If a product is great – it ‘ll make the round. If not then, well … and that also goes without saying that if a product goes bad it ’ll die out sooner or later especially Games as people tend to be somewhat more jumpy then with stuff they hold in their hands. And you can’t fix a bad core with a good advertising (shell). Maybe you’re able to hide it for a certain amount of time … it ’ll still only work for a limited amount of time. Also if you do it on purpose people might loose the trust in that company …

Cheers!

It was somewhat awkward, and I doubt that gig had a decent ROI, but it was a very interesting idea – and it did look as if all involved had fun.
The costumes were just plain awful though

That sad, I don’t think it’s all that weird to pledge your allegiance to a video game. Have you seen what people do (at least verbally) to folks who openly admit to not liking certain games (e.g. GTV)? That’s an extreme (and misguided) form of pledging allegiance.
Making a dramatic video in order to win something? Fun sweepstake generating likely to generate high involvement. It’s not like anyone is forced to do this, but people who don’t take themselves all too seriously might have a lot of fun with this.

Such campaigns (funny videos, contests, attempts at viral marketing) are not so much about hard sales (well, the hint at the bargain price probably is), but more about building a brand and generating awareness (and, in case of the contest, involvement) – which is then expected to generate sales (and references) over time
Edit: The ‘recite in public’ rule is actually genius.

Xae Isareth.1364:

I’ve seen is that boss where you need to navigate through whirlwinds to him and interrupt through his ‘Interrupt Armor’ before he charges up a party wipe attack: the dev comment was ‘if we let you CC him all the time, he won;t be able to do anything through the fight’, and the first thing that popped into my mind was ‘oh boy, there’s Defiance rearing its ugly head again’.

And that’s true, in fact you can’t just stun or CC a boss every time you want or can, but you must coordinate with your party to land the CC togheter within the little time frame to get him stunned, and it’s not all “evading red circles” because there are mobs that literally disarm you, and you have to dodge and run to pick up back your weapon, just for one example.
Plus, end game raid mechanics will have a weekly rotation that will change the encounters and their mechanics, sure after few weeks everyone will know the tactics, but at least it’s something new.

Not gonna comment the rest because it’s mostly a matter of personal opinions, although i agree with you about TSW, that game deserved way more success than it obtained.

Ashen.2907:

Devata.6589:

That just looking at a forum will not give you the factual numbers is correct but that does not mean that there are big group agreeing about a subject. And I am pretty sure the way they do the living story is one of them. Some post it here, some just ignore it, some wait for better times and some just leave the game, but indeed not everybody is active on the forum so it does not show the exact number, that however does not mean that then big groups of agreeing people don’t exist.

No one is claiming that big groups of people don’t exist here. If the claim was that a big group of people do not like “x” the statement would be fine. Claims of majority and/or general consensus, based on tiny samples taken without any controls are what is being disputed.

Devata.6589:

And there will also be people thats simply don’t like the game anymore. They can’t tell you why but they simply don’t like it and also leave. The reason why they don’t like it exist, even do they don’t know it themselfs.

If you they do not know why they left you and I certainly do not so attempting to in any way portray their departure as support for either side of the discussion is a bad idea.

Devata.6589:

A general consensus (like if every single person agrees) yeah that does not exist but thats then maybe something Vayne comes with to strengthen his point while it doesn’t because nobody says everybody agrees on one single point.

I am not really certain what this sentence means. It seems to be saying that Vayne was right in claiming that there is no general consensus measurable from a fraction of a tiny fraction of the player base on a medium whose implementation tends to attract negative view points.

Not trying to find out why people left (even if they do not know it them self) would not be smart. You do want to find out what resulted in them leaving so you can improve those points. Just saying.. well they left, don’t know why lets leave it that, would not be smart.

About what Vayne said. There are things being discussed on the forum (but you can also see it ingame and on some other places). then Vayne basically said. Well the forum is just a small part of the players so you can’t make up how many people really don’t like.

So uses that point to basically try and dismiss a (likely) problem.. because well you can’t for sure say it’s a problem can you??

Thats what I was referring to. The fact that you can’t measure it and the fact that not everybody agrees about one subject (and yes thats true) does not mean there is no problem! And if there is a problem (and the forum at least can hinds towards that) it should be addressed.

So bringing that up does not strengthen the point against the problem in any way. You can say that about every problem.. yeah you you never know if a really big group of people agrees.

Ashen.2907:

Devata.6589:

Check this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Will-it-happen-again/page/2#post3281636

Aperantly Anet can make a mistake according to Vayne but then why is it a mistake? Because there exist a general, or majority, consensus? But that does not exist according to Vayne. But that does not exist according to him. Or at least it can not be determent.

A majority or general consensus is not required for something to be a mistake. According to ANet the implementation of the skin was unintended. If everyone had loved it it would still have been a mistake (according to ANet), just a fortuitous one.

Devata.6589:

However now Anet in this case seem to have listened to the people of course it is a good thing that Anet does. While here the plee seemed to be Anet should not listen because there does not exist something like a general, or majority, consensus?

Attempting to please your customers, even if they do not represent a majority or general consensus is a good idea. There will be two sides to any issue however and the difficult part will likely be balancing the desires of one group against the other.

Devata.6589:

It really comes down to defending Anet for the sake of defending it. However that might be because of some blind love. Not judging about that, however it shows that it’s not just based on some logic. If Anet did exactly the opposite (like they did with the skins) and said they did listen to the complains we would see Vayne here defending that. And thats to bad because I don’t mind having a discussion with somebody who truly disagrees about something but it should at leased be driven by some logic and not by blind love.

(or a paycheck)

Its not defending ANet for the sake of defending ANet to point out mistaken assumptions or claims in arguments. If someone were to claim that the majority were happy with the video or with the armor based on such a tiny sample I would still question their claim. Personally I do not like ANet as a company in its current form. You speak of the a discussion based on logic (rather than blind love) and yet seem to be supporting people inventing numbers in order to support their position. Every time someone argues that a, “majority,” support X they are saying that at least 51% do so, and yet cannot support that number, and in fact are making the claim without access to the data needed to support it. Yeah, that is the logical side of the argument ; )

I think you sort of misunderstood me.

Because the first part you reacted…
“A majority or general consensus is not required for something to be a mistake. According to ANet the implementation of the skin was unintended. If everyone had loved it it would still have been a mistake (according to ANet), just a fortuitous one.”

Yeah indeed. Thats exactly what I am saying / suffering to in the comment you commented this on.

Then the second reaction:
“Attempting to please your customers, even if they do not represent a majority or general consensus is a good idea. There will be two sides to any issue however and the difficult part will likely be balancing the desires of one group against the other.”

Yeah indeed once again thats exactly what I am saying / referring to in the comment you commented this on.

And for the last part. No I support people when they say they see a problem. They can see it I might also see it and the fact that you do not have exact numbers does not mean it isn’t there (so I go against the comment that somebody brings up like well but the forum is only a small part so it does not proof it to basically dismiss the whole point). I am not supporting anybody using exact numbers. If somebody says, I see many people say this or that, yeah that possible. But I will not agree if somebody said 51% of all people don’t like x.

The blind love refers to saying well “we can’t proof it here” to pretty much dismiss a point. You can say that about anything and can dismiss anything like that so thats a great thing to bring up out of blind love. Then I prefer having that person bring up actual arguments why it’s not a problem according to him.

Well maybe I do also defend the people who say “the stuff everybody hates” because to me he obviously does not literally mean everybody but means the fact that ‘many’ people complain about something. That is called a hyperbole. Nobody should take that literally but if people are just looking for something to attack such persons statement (like out of blind love) then of course you can come with the statement that not everybody hates something. Like if they are not smart enough to know a hyperbole when they see one.

imaginary.6241:

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

I haven’t gone through the entire thread, but I have a serious question for those playing in the EU and USA.

Asides online advertisements, when it comes to advertising/promoting for GW2 do you have any other types of advertising where you live, or have you seen any other advertising around other than in game stores?

No. Absolutely nothing here in Germany. That I said I neither watch TV, noir especially look out for Ads in any medium at all. Thought, I don’t think they should need to do that. If a product is great – it ‘ll make the round. If not then, well … and that also goes without saying that if a product goes bad it ’ll die out sooner or later especially Games as people tend to be somewhat more jumpy then with stuff they hold in their hands. And you can’t fix a bad core with a good advertising (shell). Maybe you’re able to hide it for a certain amount of time … it ’ll still only work for a limited amount of time. Also if you do it on purpose people might loose the trust in that company …

Cheers!

Same here, we get no advertising for it at all. The only reason I knew GW2 was coming about was that I played GW1, nothing else. Even at games expo’s like Supanova here in Australia, I think last year GW2 had a small banner in a corner somewhere. No reps, no demo’s, no other types of advertising. Pretty poor for a game that you want the world to buy, in it’s premiere year. Hell, WoW had merchandise on sale at various vendors. Just shows you what kind of precedent has been set, and how lacking GW2’s was.

Before anyone jumps to any negative conclusions, this is based on fact alone. I have no biases here; if Anet don’t want to advertise in certain countries then be it on their heads. The distributors here in Australia and NZ were a group called QVS who distributed the games. Based on that you’d have to figure they’d distribute other advertising as well, for logic’s sake.

Still – there was no printed media of any kind, no radio or TV advertising, nothing of any kind here besides online advertising, and then you really had to look around for it. If you weren’t a gamer and weren’t hooked into any forums or other gamer’s inner-circle then honestly, you wouldn’t have known about it. But whether the advertising limitations were enforced by Anet or their parent NCsoft is unclear.

I think this marketing tactic will work wonders with rpers.

HappyPrimes.3904:

I saw the video and immediately unsubbed from their youtube channel, it was like a BP oil spill in my subscription feed. And yeah, the way the last few months have gone this game will be dead in the water by its second anniversary assuming their marketing team doesn’t kill it before then. Which is a shame, because GW1 was a great game but they threw away such a good world/lore foundation to build a game out of.

You did not just compare this to a massive environmental disaster that effects entire communities and the waters they rely on.

I don’t see how this ad is considered offensive and how people would feel embarrassed after watching it. Of course what they should have done is have a booth at Comic Con in San Diego and have the taxi run around down town. I think they’ll find more people into video games there than a normal day in the LA area.

I thought the ad was pretty funny while bringing the world of Tyria into our world. It would have been better if the driver was a big, furry, muscular, mouth watering charr like Rytlock.. but that’s only me…… cough >.>;; anywho, this ad wasn’t offending or embarrassing to me at all. Infact, I talk about gw2 with my coworkers and friends a lot even though they don’t play and I let them know when they’re having a free weekend so they can try it out and join the guild I’m in. That’s the funnest way of recruiting guild members

Hello,

As this thread has derailed with off topic posting and other games related comments, this thread is now closed.

Thank you for your understanding.