Guild Wars 2

I think you are suppose to be lost.

My problem is that , so far, it hasn’t been fun. I don’t like looking for some guys car keys in the snow. The enemies are exactly the same as the other ones in the world.

Meh.

TooBz.3065:

I think you are suppose to be lost.

My problem is that , so far, it hasn’t been fun. I don’t like looking for some guys car keys in the snow. The enemies are exactly the same as the other ones in the world.

Meh.

I have to agree to some degree. I actually don’t mind going on missions that span the world, but I’m not interesting in randomly combing every square inch of the map looking for an object.

There just needs to be more direction. I don’t need to have my hand held or anything, but there needs to be a balance between easy and just ridiculously hard to find.

The same enemies is a bit of a cop out, but perhaps there will be some surprise in store.

I’m still not understanding why this is a “living story” and why I should care for it.

I’m enjoying it, the new faction is quite mysterious, wondering why flame legion and dredge are working together and what they are planning. I haven’t been doing anything with the hidden objects though, helping refugees doesn’t have anything to do with the storyline.

Red Falcon.8257:

I’m still not understanding why this is a “living story” and why I should care for it.

It’s living in the sense that it’s changing without any “update”. That is to say while on the surface it may appear you’re progressing it, but in actuality its just a time activated computer script.

I’m glad the world is changing however, i’d rather it change in a more one-time event fashion than a slow rolling script.

meh, i kind of have to agree. I like the thought. And i like the fact that Anet is making an effort to keep us engaged and to keep rolling out content. But thus far, i have been completely uninterested in this living story. I do the quests, don’t really feel engaged or engrossed in it but i want to at least participate and do it. that’s about all it amounts too though. Run around spamming [f] to hammer signs, then run around spamming [ctrl] to look for somebody’s lost something or other. not much to engage me there.

Is anyone else getting the feeling Frost and Flame is a “test run” of the system to see if they can pull it off before jumping into things more complex?

The NPCs lost their items during their travels from X to Y, which is basically somewhere inbetween the zone portals and the city. Some were attacked, which basically means they ran off the direct path you would normally take. It is also mentioned that some don’t follow the road and instead cut across. You could also assume some don’t know where they’re going, so they may go the wrong way for a bit, and their items way have been taken, rather than dropped.

All of that combined, along with knowledge of the mobs and friendly NPCs in the zone should give you a general idea of where they could have lost their items.

It would have been easier if the NPC had a general idea of the path it took to narrow the possible area, but then they couldn’t have just randomly spawned them, which would probably result in the items always being in a specific area and then there wouldn’t really be a search for them. Maybe they actually intended for hints to be given, which is why the possible spawn points are in little groups.

I’m kind of in the same boat. I haven’t really made a great effort to pursue it, but I haven’t seen a real reason to yet, either. It seems like it’s about 15 minutes worth of content each month… Sure, there are a few new DEs, but they’re nothing that says to me "stay in this area and " experience all this new stuff. Not that I’m dissatisfied with the game as a whole, I’m just feeling like the living story instead of building up and providing a progression is on it’s second month of previews, before actually releasing the movie.

Dredge and Flaming Legion are invading Diessa and Wayfarer through portals. Innocent folk ran to the safety of Lion’s Arch, but many died while fleeing the carnage (so we have to go get their dog tags to deliver to their families). Some who made it to LA lost some important heirlooms, so we have to root around in the countryside and find them.

This is a pretty dull exposition, honestly. But, what do I know? I’m just a gamer, and writing is hard.

I agree. Additionally, I find it boring to hang around in Diessa and Wayfarer and hope that a new portal opens to throw out some target dummies to get my achievement.

I disagree. The point of the living story is to see the world evolve and make permanent changes. By the end of this I think we will see some permanent changes to the area. If you actually take time to delve in you can see possible narratives playing out. There is the dredge/flame legion alliance which we still have more to find out about. Plenty of npcs to talk to and get an opinion on. The consortium have stepped in and are acting rather sinister. I think the consortium business could split off into another storyline buiding up southsun cove some more.

I agree. I’ve really got no clue what’s going on with it. I had to wiki up the achievements. I would have never found the events otherwise, or the lost objects.

It’s like they’re trying to do something along the lines of “War in Kryta”, but they released it before it was ready.

Of course, everything about this game has been released before it was ready, but that’s a whole different topic…

Red Falcon.8257:

I’m still not understanding why this is a “living story” and why I should care for it.

I agree. The ‘Razing’ is supposed to be the ‘third’ installment, but the first two were short, inconsequential, and boring. Running around and clicking on 75 things, then finding two random items is too meager to count as the ‘first two parts’ in anything much less a ‘living story’. Camping spawn points to kill the exact same timed spawn went out of fashion with Everquest.

The plot so far is paper thin and extremely disappointing.

Skylightmoon.1079:

. The consortium have stepped in and are acting rather sinister. I think the consortium business could split off into another storyline buiding up southsun cove some more.

Awha…? I think you may have just proved the OPs point to me. Not sure at all where you heard about the consortium…. I admit I’ve been kind of trained not to talk to the guys with * over their heads, as in the first update they provided no useful information…

JaironKalach.4938:

Skylightmoon.1079:

. The consortium have stepped in and are acting rather sinister. I think the consortium business could split off into another storyline buiding up southsun cove some more.

Awha…? I think you may have just proved the OPs point to me. Not sure at all where you heard about the consortium…. I admit I’ve been kind of trained not to talk to the guys with * over their heads, as in the first update they provided no useful information…

The Consortium are setting up homes for the refugees on Southsun Cove. Either out of the goodness of their hearts, or because after Karkageddon no one else wants their real estate.

How nice of them. How does someone find out about this in game? Just by stumbling into them on Southsun?

Go to the refugee camp in Lions Arch and you will find the Consortium NPC’s there who talk about building in Southsun Cove.

JaironKalach.4938:

How nice of them. How does someone find out about this in game? Just by stumbling into them on Southsun?

There is a camp near Lion’s Arch where the important refugees collect themselves.

You have to interact with the consortium agent there. No reason to, gamewise, but you can interact and get flavor text explaining what they’re doing.

I suppose I could take it a step further and ask how I was supposed to know that there was a camp of refugees in LA… I think at some point we’ll get to the idea that there was a key yellow * that I should have looked for/talked to.

JaironKalach.4938:

I suppose I could take it a step further and ask how I was supposed to know that there was a camp of refugees in LA… I think at some point we’ll get to the idea that there was a key yellow * that I should have looked for/talked to.

The mail that was sent to you by Logan/Rytlock/Eir/Caithe/Zojja when you logged in at the start of part 2 said as much.

Haven’t noticed the living story so far. Do I have to look for it or does it make itself visible random people? If it’s visible to me and I haven’t noticed it I would have to agree that it’s too vague.

I think being somewhat lost adds to the mystery of what is going on. I like having to look for stuff and find clues. I like that the stuff you have to find isn’t always in the same place. I like that it is unfolding slowly and not over a weekend. I like the story.

I like not being able to follow some recipe from a website that gives complete walkthroughs. I like that there isn’t a dedicated forum to discuss this event.

I like chatting to other players in map chat while looking for clues and trying to find out what to try next or how to begin various parts of the event.

If I want the typical MMO type tasks/quests, there are a ton of them already in this game. Go do them if that is what you want. None of the specific parts of the game are required after 80. Just do the stuff you want.

I like it the way it is. Please Anet, don’t change these events. In fact, give us more in the future.

I like the concept behind the Razing. You’ve got the Dredge who are all about asserting their relevance after centuries of enslavement under the Dwarfs… and the Flame Legion who are desperate to reclaim their dominance after being decimated by the other Legions. Both bring powerful assets to the table the other lacks… Dredge bringing their technology and Flame Legion bringing their magic. Discovering whomever it was that was smart/charismatic enough to overcome their mutual xenophobia and get them to join forces is going to be interesting. Fighting them moreso.

When we get around to it…

Helping an endless stream of refugees by building signs and scouring the countryside for a glowy object for two months solid isnt the way to present this story. It’s ponderous and boring and vague and LIFELESS. This is one case where Anets monthly update schedule is a detriment to content by being too SLOW.

JaironKalach.4938:

I suppose I could take it a step further and ask how I was supposed to know that there was a camp of refugees in LA… I think at some point we’ll get to the idea that there was a key yellow * that I should have looked for/talked to.

lol yur making a big deal outta this when it doesnt need to be. My god if you put in a little effort you would find its rather simple. I mean, first off, the new camp is in LA. There is a star marking it on the map. LA is one of the most popular spots in the game, I have a hard time believing you didnt overhear or even notice in the corner of your eye a new star on the map. There are 5 or 6 npcs to talk to there, they give you a little viewpoint of whats goin on. If you bothered during the Jan update, youd see each week new npcs showed up in the refugee camps. They would give you some snippits. Initially it was vague, week 2 and 3 suggested dredge and flame legion, but no direct connection between the two, and the last week finally confirmed their alliance by an npc. I think it would be unnecessary for a herald to send you mail each time a new npc showed up, or a new snow-covered object was found. If you’re too lazy to search, then thats ok, plenty of other players arnt. Finding the refugee items takes like 15 minutes. Just go to a zone and ask mapchat and chances are they will know.

The idea is great. I also love the fact that there’s a story that slowly progresses.

My only problem with it is that I have to rely on wiki to see what’s actually changing, and that I have to go out for another momento…I’m just well, missing the info ingame.

It has good promise but poor execution so far (seems to be a trend). I think the whole thing will eventually just end up being “fight more karka”. You know something is wrong with the “living” story when there’s more life in Orr.

ThiBash.5634:

The idea is great. I also love the fact that there’s a story that slowly progresses.

My only problem with it is that I have to rely on wiki to see what’s actually changing, and that I have to go out for another momento…I’m just well, missing the info ingame.

So Monday night I’m out doing my dailies when I notice map chat stating that there are two new items to find. There was some confusion about what the items were and where they were located. I ported into LA to check out the refugee camp that’s been there for a couple weeks. That’s where I found out what item the charr was looking for and what item the norn was looking for. So back to the foothills and the plateau I go where I soon found the items by simply paying attention to the rumors going around on map chat.

It wasn’t hard and it wasn’t too vague. Remember, map chat is part of your surrounding. It’s like going to the local watering hole to find out what’s goin on. I had no idea that these items had been released until I saw them on map chat. I didn’t need wiki. You don’t need wiki either.

I 100% agree with OP living story is just far to vague and stupidly confusing to be worth any time spent on it. I ended up completing the latest living story and didn’t feel accomplished at all.

I was like…hmm ok well thats done -.-

PinCushion.7390:

This is a pretty dull exposition, honestly. But, what do I know? I’m just a gamer, and writing is hard.

Writing is dead simple. You just sit down in front of a typewriter and let your mind go. Or you get pencil and paper and lock yourself in a quiet room for an hour, writing down your thoughts.

No, writing is simple. Writing things which can be called “good” is hard. Take it from someone who writes.

As I said earlier, this has the feeling of them testing to see if they can do something like this before plunging into more complex affairs

Like I’ve said in other threads, their live team is too small. They are putting so much of their force working on expansion content that they don’t have enough man power to do anything substantial. So to try and make it ‘feel’ like we are getting content, they time-gate everything. And they give us pseudo content in the form of checklists that don’t add anything new to do at all, but just a quest log for existing content.

The whole strategy seems to be ‘less is more’. So they give us very few options up front and slowly seed new things in to make us more likely to do/buy each new addition. Gem store is a perfect example of this. There could be so many things done with it that players would love to buy, but if they gave us more options how many people would actually be spending money on such lack luster items like the cooking outfit and a sleeveless hoodie? Not many. Since there isn’t really much to spend money on, they add something small like that every couple months and through scarcity alone players jump on it to purchase. It’s great for business, bad for players.

Eddard.2930:

I think being somewhat lost adds to the mystery of what is going on. I like having to look for stuff and find clues. I like that the stuff you have to find isn’t always in the same place. I like that it is unfolding slowly and not over a weekend. I like the story.

I like not being able to follow some recipe from a website that gives complete walkthroughs. I like that there isn’t a dedicated forum to discuss this event.

There is a difference between mystery and being completely lost. I like finding things too, or figuring them out and following the story, but there has be a line between vagueness that leaves you curious and wanting to go find out more and total lack of any idea what/where/how/who you are supposed to do to the point where you don’t care.

And there is a website devoted to this. (well not just Flame and Frost, all GW2). It has maps with pinpoints of possible article locations and everything, complete walkthroughs that are up to date.

Unfortunately, it’s needed.

I really like what Anet is trying to do with this, and I think it’s exciting how they can expand on the idea and do more things in the future. I just think there needs to be a little more in the clue department and less in the guessing and “I didn’t even know it existed” department.

Geikamir.6329:

Gem store is a perfect example of this. There could be so many things done with it that players would love to buy, but if they gave us more options how many people would actually be spending money on such lack luster items like the cooking outfit and a sleeveless hoodie?

Every time I open the GS I ask myself this exact thing, where are the items to buy?! There’s only 1 set of armour (light, medium, heavy), a little bit of useless clothing, some upgrades and some boosters. Like wtf?!

They could sell so much on the GS it beggars belief there is next to nothing 7 MONTHS later to buy…

Red Falcon.8257:

I’m still not understanding why this is a “living story” and why I should care for it.

This is me exactly, one i dislike mysteries (they annoy me) so if i’m looking for stuff with no info or very little i get frustrated fast, i stop doing it.. two i had zero intro middle and i guess end to this living story..

So i’m lost and have no hard facts, i go do something else, i care little for refugees because they are all static objects with zero personality, they tell me zero of their plight and walk right past badly scripted (sorry but true)..

Another annoying fact is i go to the next map to see where the refugees are coming from, zero changes, nothing happening, very immersion breaking and adds to my frustration.

Honestly there are only so many signs to fix, looted items to recover and portals i will kill before i think why am i bothering with this..i also totally hate the dredge so that kinda helped me lose interest fast..

The problem I have is that all the Living Story “content” so far could have fit into 2-3 weeks. It’s really not much of anything 2 months is stretching this stuff out like an episode of Dragonkitten.

Also, making such a big deal about it makes it WAY worse. If they just put the content in & said NOTHING, it would have been far far more effective & mysterious.

For me the main issue with this and everything up to this point is the lack of rewards. Barring the fractal weapon skin drops, Anet has failed to add any new weapons, armours, potential reward dyes etc.outside of holiday theme gimmick items. It is all very disappointing. When they mentioned the Karka events I saw these big crab monsters and thought about the great looking items we would make with their shells and we receive another stat combo. Lionguard Lyns and her commendations was simply rehashed Lionguard weaponry.

With FoTM I was expecting a new set of token options and while the addition of back pieces and unique weapon skins was a step in the right direction, the variety was far too limited imo (in the case of weapons being simply skins was extremely tight pursed).

We should be having real reasons to go out and involving ourselves in this event, perhaps each stage grants parts to a one time craft of our choice at the end. Maybe new armour design recipes with distinctive hot and cold appearances, the trinkets we find might be actual usable items of some sort, fresh pets for rangers or unique elemental models for elementalists. Give the players a real motivation to get involved and stop with this demoralising habit of piquing our interest in BIG upcoming changes with EPIC scale, only to add essentially nothing to show our characters were involved.

Well, this Living Story is certainly not causing anything close to a buzz of excitement on these forums…I’ve seen everything from vague curiosity to bored indifference. Something seems to be missing in the imagination and execution department here.

I gotta wonder if they are still writing whatever the next piece is going to be, and generally making it up as they go along…

No story fully makes sense until you get to the end. That’s where the vagueness comes from.

Healix.5819:

The NPCs lost their items during their travels from X to Y, which is basically somewhere inbetween the zone portals and the city. Some were attacked, which basically means they ran off the direct path you would normally take. It is also mentioned that some don’t follow the road and instead cut across.

Unfortunately for ANet its not as fun as going back across the scenes in Where’s Waldo to find everything in the check lists after you’ve found Waldo . If we had alot more items or things to do it would make it more interesting .

Healix.5819:

The NPCs lost their items during their travels from X to Y, which is basically somewhere inbetween the zone portals and the city. Some were attacked, which basically means they ran off the direct path you would normally take. It is also mentioned that some don’t follow the road and instead cut across. You could also assume some don’t know where they’re going, so they may go the wrong way for a bit, and their items way have been taken, rather than dropped.

All of that combined, along with knowledge of the mobs and friendly NPCs in the zone should give you a general idea of where they could have lost their items.

Do ANet expects us to play the game with a detectives eye to every last scenery item we pass by while battling a champion, with entourage, solo?

I may be called a walking encyclopedia, but this is beyond even my capabilities to internalize.

Between that and certain responses i have seen from devs regarding the personal story missions, i wonder if the devs have lived and breathed the game so long that they can’t take a step back and see it in the same way that players see it.

TheDaiBish.9735:

No story fully makes sense until you get to the end. That’s where the vagueness comes from.

This has kitten all to do with the overall story tho, this is about how the NPCs relay information about where said macguffin is likely found so we can progress our fedex achievement.

digiowl.9620:

Do ANet expects us to play the game with a detectives eye to every last scenery item we pass by while battling a champion, with entourage, solo?

You’re constantly battling Champions? With no respite?

digiowl.9620:

This has kitten all to do with the overall story tho, this is about how the NPCs relay information about where said macguffin is likely found so we can progress our fedex achievement.

As above. They actually give small clues.

For example, the Compass person said they got hit by a small twister. That suggests it’s going to be in an area that has the block fissure event in. The goblet guy said that they didn’t have a chance to pick anything up before the invaders attacked, which suggests that it’s at a place where invaders attacked.

TheDaiBish.9735:

digiowl.9620:

Do ANet expects us to play the game with a detectives eye to every last scenery item we pass by while battling a champion, with entourage, solo?

You’re constantly battling Champions? With no respite?

To the contrary, you magically knew the route each of the NPC’s took with such an ambiguous statement as not on the roads.

I find this either completely and utterly luck based, a lie, or an attempt to stroke your ego so much as to hide the fact that you let someone else do the work for you and merely followed along.

TexZero.7910:

TheDaiBish.9735:

digiowl.9620:

Do ANet expects us to play the game with a detectives eye to every last scenery item we pass by while battling a champion, with entourage, solo?

You’re constantly battling Champions? With no respite?

To the contrary, you magically knew the route each of the NPC’s took with such an ambiguous statement as not on the roads.

I find this either completely and utterly luck based, a lie, or an attempt to stroke your ego so much as to hide the fact that you let someone else do the work for you and merely followed along.

Not entirely sure what that has to do with my reply, to be honest.

No. I dislike walkthroughs, so I don’t use them. And I’ve still got one of the newer items to find. Haven’t had much chance to log in lately.

I read what they had to say, and looked around them areas. I concede that it’s entirely possible I got lucky that the objects happened to be where I looked.

TheDaiBish.9735:

TexZero.7910:

TheDaiBish.9735:

digiowl.9620:

Do ANet expects us to play the game with a detectives eye to every last scenery item we pass by while battling a champion, with entourage, solo?

You’re constantly battling Champions? With no respite?

To the contrary, you magically knew the route each of the NPC’s took with such an ambiguous statement as not on the roads.

I find this either completely and utterly luck based, a lie, or an attempt to stroke your ego so much as to hide the fact that you let someone else do the work for you and merely followed along.

Not entirely sure what that has to do with my reply, to be honest.

No. I dislike walkthroughs, so I don’t use them. And I’ve still got one of the newer items to find. Haven’t had much chance to log in lately.

It goes to show how invalid the rationale behind your assertion that the story is only ambiguous because its incomplete.

It’s ambiguous because its told poorly.

If a story has poor plot development with no sense of direction or correlation to its direction in the case of this event then it becomes …Vague.

Never ceases to amaze me… Anet gives you something to do, a mystery to figure out, a way to make the world seeming to evolve and change in a permanent way and you complain about it. Things happen in our world that are unexplained until someone solves the mystery.. Why don’t you, instead of going through with blinders on make your toon apart of the world and look around you and actually see what is going on.

although is obvious that Flame & Frost is a test (and it’s okay to test as much new things as possible!!!), it amazes me that people still want to know more about a plot that no one must know. Things happens, that’s all you need to know, and you can act or just ignore like you would do IRL. It’s not like the bad guys will send you a personal message stating why they are allied, why they are attacking, why you should act (and how!) etc. C’mon…

TexZero.7910:

TheDaiBish.9735:

TexZero.7910:

TheDaiBish.9735:

digiowl.9620:

Do ANet expects us to play the game with a detectives eye to every last scenery item we pass by while battling a champion, with entourage, solo?

You’re constantly battling Champions? With no respite?

To the contrary, you magically knew the route each of the NPC’s took with such an ambiguous statement as not on the roads.

I find this either completely and utterly luck based, a lie, or an attempt to stroke your ego so much as to hide the fact that you let someone else do the work for you and merely followed along.

Not entirely sure what that has to do with my reply, to be honest.

No. I dislike walkthroughs, so I don’t use them. And I’ve still got one of the newer items to find. Haven’t had much chance to log in lately.

It goes to show how invalid the rationale behind your assertion that the story is only ambiguous because its incomplete.

It’s ambiguous because its told poorly.

If a story has poor plot development with no sense of direction or correlation to its direction in the case of this event then it becomes …Vague.

You obviously don’t read do you. A writer will not give the plot of the story too early in the book. If it is ambiguous it is because they purposely made it that way. You are not meant to figure everything out in one installment.

Eladriel.7295:

Never ceases to amaze me… Anet gives you something to do, a mystery to figure out, a way to make the world seeming to evolve and change in a permanent way and you complain about it. Things happen in our world that are unexplained until someone solves the mystery.. Why don’t you, instead of going through with blinders on make your toon apart of the world and look around you and actually see what is going on.

I beg to differ on this.

The world will still exist and change with or with my character interaction. It’s a scripted event and in no way is actually a living breathing or even cognizant of my existence in its role.

Contrast that to the world changing events of “The Lost Shores”. You actually felt more involved in the development of the world, where as with this event its being built by NPC’s for NPC’s with no assistance needed by players. To call this “living” is a joke to any real living systems.