The Manifesto- Word for Word
So if they posted on this forum saying “We lied about some stuff” you’d all be sated? I’m pretty happy with whatever it was for the CE. I also enjoyed it so much I purchased 3-5 regular copies for friends and family. I play a bit less frequently than I did before but I think that everyone who’s still preaching the manifesto is ridiculous. Things happen in life and companies that don’t work and have to be revised. This is true with everything. Maybe some things can be added later and some can’t due to whatever reason. I’ve got my moneys worth.
Seriously though, its been a year and people are still crying about the manifesto. Grow up or move on already.
Actually it’s been three years since the manifesto came out. Apparently nothing at all has happened since then.
No nothing at all.
Because they couldn’t look 3 years into the future and expect that people would act like this. It’s ridiculous.
Even if the game doesn’t match something written 3 years ago, I believe most people do know that MMOs evolve and change. And since the manifesto does mention stuff like vertical progression, the change from the manifesto to what we have is miniscule compared to what people are making it.
And they ARE ignoring everything published about the game subsequently. At the very least that makes them bad consumers (or good consumers if you’re a corporation I suppose).
So you’re telling me that going to YouTube, logging into your account, going to videos, and deleting the video that is called Guild Wars 2 Manifesto would be too much work to remove, if not back then, but even now?
Don’t feed me your horsekitten, white knight.
Actually, considering how well of a job they’re doing on the game right now, it might be beyond the abilities of anyone who works at ANet.
Carry on.
And MMOs do evolve and change, but the core principles of the game remain intact most of the time. What we have here is basically nothing that was originally told to us. Yes, you and your fanclub can tell all of us here that it’s the same via big words and fanboyish glamour, but, you can shut the kitten up because it’s not. Maybe on the broadest of spectrum, like one that spans all 7 seas. Even then it’s a longshot.
“Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.”
– Euripides
– Euripides
(edited by Skan.5301)
No matter how much the cheer squad try to deflect people’s thoughts on the “manifesto” it remains :
1. A published statement of their intended meta for the game.
2. People believed ANet would be able to deliver on what were pretty clear statements of intent.
3. Many people made their purchase of the game on those beliefs.
4. People are ENTITLED to voice their disappointment that the game does not meet their expectations created by 1 and 2 and 3.
5. ANet has failed in communicating changes in a meaningful and timely fashion.
6. Player communications are largely ignored.
7. Players feel abandoned on many issues, ie play breaking bugs which have been evident since beta…this destroys player confidence in the development team…especially when they are not even acknowledged.
8. As a result of a lot of these issues, rightly or wrongly, people have lost trust in ANet to deliver.People are allowed to feel misled and voice that opinion, and should not be howled down for doing so.
All the counterposts and weaving will NOT change how people FEEL.
The old sayings “words are cheap” and “actions speak louder than words” may hold more truth here than they appear to.
3 days after the manifesto to give clarification on the very stuff people have been bringing up lately isn’t a timely manner? 3 years ago Anet gave clarification on what they were talking about in the manifesto, and 3 years later people are saying that Anet lied, even though Anet gave clarification 3 years ago. Not Anets fault that people decided to watch JUST the manifesto but never read anything else from them in 2 years prior to the release of the game.
The Manifesto is to this day easily found on the GW2 website. Can you find the clarification there? Go look. But be warned: even Manifestopholes had difficulty tracking down a copy of the Sacred Writ of Clarification.
Right, because it’s, ready for this…three years old.
The clarification was released BEFORE the dozens of other interviews and articles that tell specifically what a dynamic event is and what the personal story is. It was NEEDED back then.
Today, the only people who really complain about the manifesto are the people who are ignoring the other stuff. But back then, when it was made, there WAS no other stuff.
You have entire pages on the website describing exactly what’s going on in game. Videos from conventions. Fan sites explaining.
And you still can’t tell the difference between a dynamic event and personal story?
Give me a break.
No, sir. Not while that pretentiously pesky video with all its misleading ‘editorial blunders’ (hah!) still sits there all visible and stuff. Until it’s removed from the GW2 site (like the subsequent clarification) or redone (as it should have been in the first place, given that it was so poorly presented it needed immediate clarification), no breaks will be given.
Seylah!
The table is a fable.
No matter how much the cheer squad try to deflect people’s thoughts on the “manifesto” it remains :
1. A published statement of their intended meta for the game.
2. People believed ANet would be able to deliver on what were pretty clear statements of intent.
3. Many people made their purchase of the game on those beliefs.
4. People are ENTITLED to voice their disappointment that the game does not meet their expectations created by 1 and 2 and 3.
5. ANet has failed in communicating changes in a meaningful and timely fashion.
6. Player communications are largely ignored.
7. Players feel abandoned on many issues, ie play breaking bugs which have been evident since beta…this destroys player confidence in the development team…especially when they are not even acknowledged.
8. As a result of a lot of these issues, rightly or wrongly, people have lost trust in ANet to deliver.People are allowed to feel misled and voice that opinion, and should not be howled down for doing so.
All the counterposts and weaving will NOT change how people FEEL.
The old sayings “words are cheap” and “actions speak louder than words” may hold more truth here than they appear to.
3 days after the manifesto to give clarification on the very stuff people have been bringing up lately isn’t a timely manner? 3 years ago Anet gave clarification on what they were talking about in the manifesto, and 3 years later people are saying that Anet lied, even though Anet gave clarification 3 years ago. Not Anets fault that people decided to watch JUST the manifesto but never read anything else from them in 2 years prior to the release of the game.
The Manifesto is to this day easily found on the GW2 website. Can you find the clarification there? Go look. But be warned: even Manifestopholes had difficulty tracking down a copy of the Sacred Writ of Clarification.
Right, because it’s, ready for this…three years old.
The clarification was released BEFORE the dozens of other interviews and articles that tell specifically what a dynamic event is and what the personal story is. It was NEEDED back then.
Today, the only people who really complain about the manifesto are the people who are ignoring the other stuff. But back then, when it was made, there WAS no other stuff.
You have entire pages on the website describing exactly what’s going on in game. Videos from conventions. Fan sites explaining.
And you still can’t tell the difference between a dynamic event and personal story?
Give me a break.
No, sir. Not while that pretentiously pesky video with all its misleading ‘editorial blunders’ (hah!) still sits there all visible and stuff. Until it’s removed from the GW2 site (like the subsequent clarification) or redone (as it should have been in the first place, given that it was so poorly presented it needed immediate clarification), no breaks will be given.
Seylah!
No breaks will be given? LMFAO!
I don’t actually see Anet asking for a break from you. There are like a handful of people who live in the past, wish this was Guild Wars 1, and look at a 3 year old five minute video and try to make it like it’s some sort of holy manuscript that can never change. And to be sure, less of it has actually changed than people are implying.
Anet doesn’t need to remove it from their webpage. It’s like anything else is the world that people are unreasonable about. They’ll complain about it. And the rest of us will shrug our shoulders because in the end, it all comes to nothing.
I don’t actually see Anet asking for a break from you.
Anet didn’t ask for (as in, demand) a break.
Give me a break.
No breaks!
The table is a fable.
3 days after the manifesto to give clarification on the very stuff people have been bringing up lately isn’t a timely manner?
Well if what Vayne says is the clarification then what people are bringing up is stuff that wasn’t clarified and therefore people are still holding them to it.
Today, the only people who really complain about the manifesto are the people who are ignoring the other stuff. But back then, when it was made, there WAS no other stuff.
Wrong, the majority of the marketing was similar to the manifesto, look at the blog about fun for another example.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
(edited by morrolan.9608)
3 days after the manifesto to give clarification on the very stuff people have been bringing up lately isn’t a timely manner?
Well if what Vayne says is the clarification then what people are bringing up is stuff that wasn’t clarified and therefore people are still holding them to it.
Today, the only people who really complain about the manifesto are the people who are ignoring the other stuff. But back then, when it was made, there WAS no other stuff.
Wrong, the majority of the marketing was similar to the manifesto, look at the blog about fun for another example.
All I see is people bringing up stuff that was clarified in this 3 days later
http://web.archive.org/web/20130201031636/http://www.arena.net/blog/mmo-manifesto-reactions
/shrug
kitten Vayne for defending something he cares about! Uhg, the nerve. How dare he show care and concern!
Seriously though, do you drop things off your resume or portfolio if its not something you currently do anymore? Its marketing. A lot of the skill videos shown on the webpage are out of date also. I haven’t seen forum posts about that. Hurry up and get on it guys!
Anet promised you Eden to sucker you in. Now that you bought their game, welcome to Bangladesh.
/thread
kitten YEAH. HOW ASTUTE AND ACCURATE. CLOSE THE THREAD NOW.
ALL ARGUMENTS NOW ARE INVALIDATED BY THIS.
Seriously though, its been a year and people are still crying about the manifesto. Grow up or move on already.
How can we move on? By still playing the game of the ones who can’t keep their promise?
This is like me still living with a cheating wife. Sure you still do her. But she still doing other people and lying to you.
And the manifesto here are your wedding vows.
Stick to our wedding vows, A.NET!
Seriously though, its been a year and people are still crying about the manifesto. Grow up or move on already.
How can we move on? By still playing the game of the ones who can’t keep their promise?
This is like me still living with a cheating wife. Sure you still do her. But she still doing other people and lying to you.
And the manifesto here are your wedding vows.
Stick to our wedding vows, A.NET!
Seriously? You have some serious issues.
Edit: get help.
Seriously though, its been a year and people are still crying about the manifesto. Grow up or move on already.
How can we move on? By still playing the game of the ones who can’t keep their promise?
This is like me still living with a cheating wife. Sure you still do her. But she still doing other people and lying to you.
And the manifesto here are your wedding vows.
Stick to our wedding vows, A.NET!
Seriously? You have some serious issues.
Edit: get help.
can you elaborate on that?
Well, you have to remember. ANET had a really fun game. The manifesto was fantastic. At some point, they decided to go down the route of a more grindy MMO.
My guess is that it is because PvP is a fail and so they needed to introduce grind in order to keep people playing.
Seriously though, its been a year and people are still crying about the manifesto. Grow up or move on already.
How can we move on? By still playing the game of the ones who can’t keep their promise?
This is like me still living with a cheating wife. Sure you still do her. But she still doing other people and lying to you.
And the manifesto here are your wedding vows.
Stick to our wedding vows, A.NET!
Seriously? You have some serious issues.
Edit: get help.can you elaborate on that?
Of course I can elaborate. You are confusing real life interpersonal interactions that hold great power to harm with a game. Get psychological help.
My guess is that it is because PvP is a fail and so they needed to introduce grind in order to keep people playing.
It’s because the game isn’t up to Asian standards. Koreans and Chinese like farming. To make the game appealing to them, it has to have a grind.
Historically, MMOs have always done better when they hit Eastern markets. Sales high record highs and concurrent players start rising.
Though you might be right. A grind might be what is keeping the few fans that are still playing.
“Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.”
– Euripides
– Euripides
Why would a company do a 180 on a majority of their customers and expect to make money out of it?
The answer… they wouldn’t. That makes no sense.
The cynical version is: GW2 sold more copies to traditional MMO fans than ANet expected. Keeping those people became more of a priority because, well, they have other games to go to. Where can someone who believed the sales pitches and preferred that model go? ANet gambled that they could retain more of the MMO fans and still retain a significant portion of their old fan base, leading to a bigger pool for gem store purchases.
The idealistic version is: GW2 will soon be released in the East, and NCSoft fears that GW2 will not have enough of what eastern players are used to. They are pushing ANet to put in more progression and grind and ANet is taking a compromise approach to try to please grinders east and west, while holding on to some of their ideals.
Either version supports a change in direction and an expectation to make money.
Well, I think the second version is a little too pie in the sky. Arena.net should have guessed that they’d eventually try to target the Eastern market in that scenario, and would have (presumably) planned accordingly.
I suspect the first scenario is a bit closer to the truth. They were targeting two groups of people in addition to appealing to their prior fanbase; people who were tired of the traditional MMO experience, and people who found MMOs to be rather inane to begin with.
I think they were semi-successful with the first group; “Hey… it’s an MMO without the insane gear grind and constant chase of the next tier!” The problem is, that first group discovered they actually LIKED the gear grind and endgame. They LIKED that constant pursuit, and started to quit the game because GW2 lacked it.
Meanwhile, the second group I don’t think ever really gave it a chance to begin with, and never manifested in any sizable numbers. It’d be like making a bowl of curry for people who don’t like curry. Sure, you might get a handful give a shot, and some may even like it… but the majority are just gonna say “No thank you” because (gasp!) THEY DON’T LIKE CURRY!
On top of that, I really don’t think the bulk of GW1 veterans really followed to GW2. I suspect a good many of them played the betas, saw it wasn’t a direct sequel in spirit to GW1, did a couple laps to make their money worth it, and gave it up.
So at that point, you really only have one group of people left… the traditional MMO players that want the things that you really didn’t want to do to begin with. I suspect the falling in line more with what is considered “good” in Eastern markets more coincided with the traditional MMO market than a direct plan to cater to Eastern players.
3 days after the manifesto to give clarification on the very stuff people have been bringing up lately isn’t a timely manner?
Well if what Vayne says is the clarification then what people are bringing up is stuff that wasn’t clarified and therefore people are still holding them to it.
Today, the only people who really complain about the manifesto are the people who are ignoring the other stuff. But back then, when it was made, there WAS no other stuff.
Wrong, the majority of the marketing was similar to the manifesto, look at the blog about fun for another example.
You bring up one blog post and call that a majority of the marketing. I’d call that an exaggeration.
Fact…dynamic events were explained again and again and again in detail.
Fact…the personal story was explained again and again and again in detail.
Fact..there are entire sections on the page about how weapons are used, about dynamic events, about personal story.
Fact…if all your information about dynamic events, personal story and skills are from the manifesto, you didn’t do enough research into the game.
Fact…the information about the clarification is in the subsequent information about personal stories and dynamic event.
Fact…the majority of marketing, that is to say take all the marketing and lay it all out side by side, was not about vertical progression or about anything to do with grind. It wasn’t about how this game was like Guild Wars 1 either.
Everyone is quoting throwaway lines, single lines and saying things like this is the majority of the marketing.
No. The majority of the marketing was centered around dynamic events (which are in the game), personal story (which is in the game), a living breathing world (which is in the game via things like ambient spoken dialogue and things changing. I often go into zones and find something I didn’t find last time).
That’s the majority of the marketing. Just poll it yourself, you’ll see.
Well, I think the second version is a little too pie in the sky. Arena.net should have guessed that they’d eventually try to target the Eastern market in that scenario, and would have (presumably) planned accordingly.
I suspect the first scenario is a bit closer to the truth. They were targeting two groups of people in addition to appealing to their prior fanbase; people who were tired of the traditional MMO experience, and people who found MMOs to be rather inane to begin with.
FWIW, I also think the first version is closer to the truth. OTOH, ANet has a history of admitting they misread their customer base. “In GW, people used skills in ways we didn’t anticipate.” “We didn’t expect people to get dungeon sets so fast.” “We didn’t expect exotics to be so easy to get.” We didn’t expect Teq to do within 12 hours."
Spoiler!
~~~ArenaNet lied!~~~I don’t think so.
I think they were pressured to do something drastic and fast to get back the players that were leaving 1 month after the game’s release. Unfortunately, their ascended gear treadmill strategy is similar to someone shooting themselves in the foot.
If you’re going to create a grinding treadmill at least make it fun. At a minimum.
I understand that fun is subjective. However, if chopping trees, whacking rocks and clicking trading post spreadsheets is their idea of fun then they’re going to feel a massive sting in spring 2014.
No, they really did lie. And they absolutely refuse to admit it and own up to their mistakes. Daniel Dociu was the only one who was telling the truth.
I’d say Ree didn’t lie, and the game didnt go against JC’s explanation of it, tbh.
No, no, NOOO! Those two were the WORST of the manifesto. I played this game for over twenty five hundred hours and I know full well that what they said was absolute rubbish.
I don’t feel like a hero. I feel like a bloody errand boy delivering crap to lazier than Obama npcs. I saved all of the villages in this game and when I come around to visit Their expression: “lol who are you? That doesn’t matter, have you seen X??” The only ones that remember are the heart npcs and the ones who were connected to that npc. Hearts is a step down by the way, a progress bar that says to do X, Y, Z, at least with the quest log view of things I could get some lore and a bit of entertainment out of it not to mention an actual reward instead of a few pennies.
Now, the combat in this game is a complete joke, anyone who argues otherwise hasn’t even reached a hundred hours of gameplay… That and dungeon runners, only because they panic and spam everything that isn’t already on cool-down. Aside from dodging and your own healing ability, there’s not much to it. If you play a dungeon the way the developers intended it as, you would get punished, not only by rewards but by other players as well.
Combat is awesome. The best element in the gameplay in my opinion. I do love that there’s so many hate by people and yet they still play/visit forums. You could also invest your time in something you do like. Oh well. Silly interwebs you!
http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/313188-oh-you
EDIT: I also don’t think they purposely lied about anything. They have deviated from the manifesto, yes obviously, because they thought that would work better.
“Let’s make a video, where we talk about all these awesome things that we won’t do to let people down!” Yes. Solid.
Blood And Metal is a guild on Gunnars Hold that is all about metal, punk,hard rock etc.. Join us!
(edited by Direksone.3867)