Guild Wars 2

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ayrilana.1396:

I’m using “effort” in the sense that you have to actually go a little out of your way to do them. This system and the previous have the same number of tasks so that didn’t really change. The number of tasks needed was reduced though to 3. What people are wanting is to be able to do something like a dungeon tour and be able to complete their daily without even trying to actively complete it.

Imagine if they released a new dungeon path with achievements and you completed 7 along the way without having to do anything other than progress through the dungeon. would you have considered any effort having been made to earn those? That’s kind of what I was arguing. People want to be able to play the game and be passively complete the daily.

The post stressing how much less time it takes to do the dailies are trying to point out that players can now complete them in less time if they don’t like the new system but want the AP for some reason. I know I made that argument because people complained about having to go out of their way and take time out of their play schedule. I’ve completed the daily in a matter of 5-10 min if I tried.

Many non-daily achievements are attained while just playing. Many. There’s nothing engaging or challenging about harvesting in a designated region v. harvesting where you happen to be. Can we stop pretending that, unless you’re one of those at the top of the AP boards, there’s anything to achievements other than a small, periodic, reward boost. I’d be fine with changing achievements to require really going out of one’s way. However, for that to have any meaning, it would have to be across the board, not just making PvE daily-doers sit through loading screens. Given what AP are, I see nothing remotely resembling an achievement in a lot of them. If “organic” daily tasks are so bad, why are the changes to PvP/WvW tasks — which are more organic than the PvE ones, and which in the case of PvP no longer require PvP players to do anything other than play PvP — considered an improvement?

Liking a system in a game can have multiple aspects. The one that motivates me is “fun.” Playing the game can be fun. Getting a little extra reward was fun because the game-play to get them was fun. Sitting through loading screens is boring. Clicking on a vista I’ve seen at least three times (usually a lot more) already is boring. Going to a region I’m not currently interested in to tap 4 nodes is boring. Doing events where the players destroy the mobs before they can even deliver an attack is asinine.

The new iteration initially did its job in my case. I tried WvW again. What I found was that while the AP reward got me to try it in the short term, WvW is still plagued with the same issues it had before the new daily iteration. I’d much rather ANet improved WvW as a means to get me interested in it than dropping in to get 10 AP and then dropping back out. I find it hard to believe I’m the only one who feels that way.

We already have a passive reward system which is the daily log in one. We don’t need another one for people to simply play the game. There are 12 achievements to get people to try different aspects of the game. If people are upset because they feel limited in their options since they personally choose to play in only one game type then it’s their own fault.

It was never about dailies needing to be challenging. Challenging and effort are two different things. My use of effort was something that requires someone to actively go for the daily than passively. WvW and PvP are obviously small game modes so there are not many variations that you could do for daily achievements.

Julie Yann.5379:

Seriously, daily takes about 15 mins to complete if you choose the most efficient one and all it give you are the APs. Each individual daily gives loot and the biggest loot comes from simply logging in. I much rather this system over the previous one.

^ This.

Lord Arhan Warmark.7098:

I actually used to log in more frequently, as did my friends under the old dailies/monthly system. I understand you get rewards for just logging in (boring, to me at least).

Correlation != Cause

Just because you log in now, doesn’t mean the changed rewards are responsible. It could just be the lull in content, you know? :P

Ayrilana.1396:

We already have a passive reward system which is the daily log in one. We don’t need another one for people to simply play the game. There are 12 achievements to get people to try different aspects of the game. If people are upset because they feel limited in their options since they personally choose to play in only one game type then it’s their own fault.

It was never about dailies needing to be challenging. Challenging and effort are two different things. My use of effort was something that requires someone to actively go for the daily than passively. WvW and PvP are obviously small game modes so there are not many variations that you could do for daily achievements.

The flaw with the login rewards is that they encourage players to log in but not to play the game. That’s what the old dailies did — encourage people to play the game. GW2 dailies used to be more unlike dailies in that other MMO. Now, they’re much more like them.

You didn’t respond to the point about why it’s OK to have more organic dailies in PvP/WvW but it’s not OK in PvE. So, why is that? Is it because ANet has no clue how to make PvP modes appeal to PvE players? Why can I get the daily (most days) just running in a herd in WvW? And no, I don’t think Master of Ruins is a good task. It’s just another attempt to get some use out of an idea that flopped.

We’re just going to have to differ about ANet using the dailies to get people to try different aspects of the game. The difference between our preferences, in my mind, is that I’d prefer making the daily system more fun and engaging for everyone, PvP, WvW and PvE alike. You’re supporting an existing system which is exactly the opposite of fun and engaging.

PvE dailies as they are now are just dull chores featuring bad game play. The only good things about them are they’re mostly quick, and if you’re willing to bypass the AP, they’re eminently forgettable. Does that sound like a good mechanic to you?

ill be honest, I miss the old dailies. The one that yeilded 1 AP per daily completed with a max of 10 per day, IIRC. The current login chest is welcome and nice, but its too freely given. I farm SO MUCH GOLD from that login chest per month its not even funny. And I have 2 alt accounts, my wifes account and her alt account….

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ayrilana.1396:

We already have a passive reward system which is the daily log in one. We don’t need another one for people to simply play the game. There are 12 achievements to get people to try different aspects of the game. If people are upset because they feel limited in their options since they personally choose to play in only one game type then it’s their own fault.

It was never about dailies needing to be challenging. Challenging and effort are two different things. My use of effort was something that requires someone to actively go for the daily than passively. WvW and PvP are obviously small game modes so there are not many variations that you could do for daily achievements.

The flaw with the login rewards is that they encourage players to log in but not to play the game. That’s what the old dailies did — encourage people to play the game. GW2 dailies used to be more unlike dailies in that other MMO. Now, they’re much more like them.

You didn’t respond to the point about why it’s OK to have more organic dailies in PvP/WvW but it’s not OK in PvE. So, why is that? Is it because ANet has no clue how to make PvP modes appeal to PvE players? Why can I get the daily (most days) just running in a herd in WvW? And no, I don’t think Master of Ruins is a good task. It’s just another attempt to get some use out of an idea that flopped.

We’re just going to have to differ about ANet using the dailies to get people to try different aspects of the game. The difference between our preferences, in my mind, is that I’d prefer making the daily system more fun and engaging for everyone, PvP, WvW and PvE alike. You’re supporting an existing system which is exactly the opposite of fun and engaging.

PvE dailies as they are now are just dull chores featuring bad game play. The only good things about them are they’re mostly quick, and if you’re willing to bypass the AP, they’re eminently forgettable. Does that sound like a good mechanic to you?

I did respond about PvP/WvW dailies in the very last sentence. PvE is larger which allows for more variations in dailies. And again, they’re treating the dailies on the basis of the entire game and not just for each game mode. A lot of people have disliked that because they have chosen only one game mode to play in and absolutely refuse to play any of the others.

Ayrilana.1396:

I did respond about PvP/WvW dailies in the very last sentence. PvE is larger which allows for more variations in dailies.

You’re still evading the question, so I’ll answer it for you. If PvE is larger and there are more options, then it should be simple to provide organic dailies there as well as in the other modes. Since they didn’t, it’s obvious that they’re not trying to entice PvP/WvW people into PvE, but they are trying to shovel PvE players into the other modes.

Ayrilana.1396:

And again, they’re treating the dailies on the basis of the entire game and not just for each game mode.

This is nonsensical. Since they are offering tasks that are mode specific, and since people can obtain completion in one mode, dailies are the same with regard to the “entire game” as they were before, except that now there are 4 tasks per mode. This means that PvP gained, WvW gained a little (maybe, under the old system it was possible to get the kills, gathering and event generics in WvW) and PvE lost.

Ayrilana.1396:

A lot of people have disliked that because they have chosen only one game mode to play in and absolutely refuse to play any of the others.

So what? Is 12 the Holy Kitten Number? It’s good that PvP/WvW players got better options. Why did this have to come at the expense of PvE players? The answer to that brings us full circle.

ANet cannibalized a system for providing a little extra reward for logging in and playing. They turned it into rewards for login and a system designed to bolster numbers in modes that are under-populated. There’s resentment caused by removing access to the AP reward by playing in a manner people prefer. PvP/WvW have greater access to playing “their way” than before. PvE does not — and dungeon players lost out some as well because dungeon events and kills used to count.

Anyway, it’s pretty obvious that for whatever reason you’re prepared to defend the status quo, but I honestly can’t understand why you support the horrid gameplay that some of the PvE dailies produce.

Todays daily (for pve, on my realm) is:
scale 1-10 fractal
siverpeaks lumberer
cursed shore event completer
kryta vista viewer

does anyone honestly rub their hands in anticipation when they see a list like that, and then enthusiastically rush off to complete them? I just facepalm and waypoint to the silverwastes

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

The old system was silly. Sure it was good for you. You didn’t have to do anything to get the reward. Of course people liked it.

You had to play. I don’t that any more now.

Vayne.8563:

But that didn’t make it good. People are calling the new system lazy, when the old system was even lazier. Dodge X number of times? Gather anything? Seems to me people just want free stuff.

As opposed to parking a character in each city for doing vistas and gathering in the home instance, then doing 1 or 2 WvW tasks that take 2-5 minutes each, without contributing anything to the game mode or even acknowledging the presence of other people? This is the laziest, least involved version of the dailies ever. 10-15 minutes tops to gain 10 AP, and if I don’t think I can do it that fast, just log off without even trying. These dailies took the gaming out of the game.

Vayne.8563:

And you know, the log in rewards now are better than the daily rewards before the change.

Yes, ridiculous, lazy, and unsatisfying.

Vayne.8563:

All people are missing out on is achievement points. If those points are important, they’ll take the time to do them. If they’re not completely 100% attached to only doing PvE that’s about 10-15 minutes, each and every day.

And by the sheer tedium of it draining any desire to continue playing after. Magnificent.

Way to miss the point.

Before you logged in and played and got the daily. Now you log in and can ignore the daily if you so choose, because the rewards you get are better. This gives you more freedom.

There’s a new category of things to do that give you different rewards. Anet’s big mistake was to call them dailies. What they should have done with left the daily log in reward named dailies and changed the new system to daily challenges and everyone would have been happy, because now you’re getting more, literally without doing anything.

Then you can do the challenges as EXTRA above and beyond, but you dont’ have to, because you’re not losing anythign except achievement points if you don’t do them.

If you don’t care about achievement points, ignore the dailies. If you do care about achievement points you get 10 now fast as you used to get 5.

Who’s inconvenienced? People who care about achievement points, but absolutely refuse to do anything but PvE. For those people it’ll take longer to get their dailies.

Narrrz.7532:

Todays daily (for pve, on my realm) is:
scale 1-10 fractal
siverpeaks lumberer
cursed shore event completer
kryta vista viewer

does anyone honestly rub their hands in anticipation when they see a list like that, and then enthusiastically rush off to complete them? I just facepalm and waypoint to the silverwastes

Right but included in that is also PvP defender and PvP reward earner, both of which I got WITHOUT PvPing in 5 minutes in one of the daily rooms that players have set up for cooperative dailies.

I actually got ranger winner at the same time, so in that five minutes, I got my entire daily without gathering or doing a vista. Five minutes and I was done…without PvPing even though I was in a PvP room.

Is it really so hard?

IndigoSundown.5419:

You’re still evading the question, so I’ll answer it for you. If PvE is larger and there are more options, then it should be simple to provide organic dailies there as well as in the other modes. Since they didn’t, it’s obvious that they’re not trying to entice PvP/WvW people into PvE, but they are trying to shovel PvE players into the other modes.

No, you’re ignoring the responses. There are, how difficult is it to do a vista? How difficult is it to do four events? How difficult is it to do a fractal and especially the days where you have the tiered version allowing you to completed two thirds of the daily? You use catch phrases as “organic” as you want all of the dailies to be able to be done passively. Anet could make it so the vista daily is in the same region as the event or world boss daily. Perhaps they want players to spread out and not all be in a single region each day. And once again, you’re only seeing the game as three separate. smaller games, rather than a single, complete one.

IndigoSundown.5419:

This is nonsensical. Since they are offering tasks that are mode specific, and since people can obtain completion in one mode, dailies are the same with regard to the “entire game” as they were before, except that now there are 4 tasks per mode. This means that PvP gained, WvW gained a little (maybe, under the old system it was possible to get the kills, gathering and event generics in WvW) and PvE lost.

IndigoSundown.5419:

So what? Is 12 the Holy Kitten Number? It’s good that PvP/WvW players got better options. Why did this have to come at the expense of PvE players? The answer to that brings us full circle.

ANet cannibalized a system for providing a little extra reward for logging in and playing. They turned it into rewards for login and a system designed to bolster numbers in modes that are under-populated. There’s resentment caused by removing access to the AP reward by playing in a manner people prefer. PvP/WvW have greater access to playing “their way” than before. PvE does not — and dungeon players lost out some as well because dungeon events and kills used to count.

Anyway, it’s pretty obvious that for whatever reason you’re prepared to defend the status quo, but I honestly can’t understand why you support the horrid gameplay that some of the PvE dailies produce.

It’s nonsensical because you don’t understand that a game consists of more than a single game type and that perhaps Anet is treating it as such. I see no point in continuing to argue with you about this point as you have not understood it so far and likely will not in subsequent posts.

EDIT: Actually, I’m just going to back out of this thread entirely. I made all of these arguments numerous times last December and do not feel like doing it all over again.

I think people are growing tired of all the crap arenanet is pulling these days, so much content and mechanics are being slaughtered and simplified, its just not fun anymore, there is no motivation behind it, the rewards are meh, the gameplay is getting numb because of it. Where did this npe bs even come from? Why 3 years later? did they change to a younger audience cause that would make sense o.o but if this keeps up then we’ll be seeing the birth of a new wildstar or archage..

Vayne.8563:

Right but included in that is also PvP defender and PvP reward earner, both of which I got WITHOUT PvPing in 5 minutes in one of the daily rooms that players have set up for cooperative dailies.

I actually got ranger winner at the same time, so in that five minutes, I got my entire daily without gathering or doing a vista. Five minutes and I was done…without PvPing even though I was in a PvP room.

Is it really so hard?

no, of course not. neither is waypointing around the world to quickly do the pve tasks.
guess what else it isn’t? did you guess enjoyable? because it’s not enjoyable.
i’m not a pvper. those dailies don’t cater to me. and yes, i get that people have set up places/ways for non-pvpers to quickly get their daily through pvp, but i don’t get how anyone could think that that is somehow a defense of the system. What it says to me is that this system is so disfunctional that people would rather switch game modes and then deliberately avoid playing that game mode as intended rather than do the dailies which have been set out for their preferred game mode.

I get that dailies DO cater to pvpers, much better than the old system. that’s fine. I’m not advocating a return to the old. I’d just like to see pve dailies which at the very least don’t require me to abandon my preferred mode and place of play.

To use the example i gave before, of the dailies i have today, the fractal one is fine. i do fractals at times, and going down to a lower scale isn’t really a step out of my way. The cursed shores event one is a little annoying, but not really so problematic – it would be better if it was a blanket ‘orrian event completer’ and included straits & malachor. Then, you could include a simple worldwide vista viewer & old-style gather requirement and you have a workable, if not especially stimulating set of dailies.

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

The old system was silly. Sure it was good for you. You didn’t have to do anything to get the reward. Of course people liked it.

You had to play. I don’t that any more now.

Vayne.8563:

But that didn’t make it good. People are calling the new system lazy, when the old system was even lazier. Dodge X number of times? Gather anything? Seems to me people just want free stuff.

As opposed to parking a character in each city for doing vistas and gathering in the home instance, then doing 1 or 2 WvW tasks that take 2-5 minutes each, without contributing anything to the game mode or even acknowledging the presence of other people? This is the laziest, least involved version of the dailies ever. 10-15 minutes tops to gain 10 AP, and if I don’t think I can do it that fast, just log off without even trying. These dailies took the gaming out of the game.

Vayne.8563:

And you know, the log in rewards now are better than the daily rewards before the change.

Yes, ridiculous, lazy, and unsatisfying.

Vayne.8563:

All people are missing out on is achievement points. If those points are important, they’ll take the time to do them. If they’re not completely 100% attached to only doing PvE that’s about 10-15 minutes, each and every day.

And by the sheer tedium of it draining any desire to continue playing after. Magnificent.

Way to miss the point.

Before you logged in and played and got the daily. Now you log in and can ignore the daily if you so choose, because the rewards you get are better. This gives you more freedom.

And most of the time, I use that freedom to immediately log off. The old dailies enticed me to play. The new ones don’t. The new ones remind me that the game has taken a turn for the awful. Standing on a roof in The Black Citadel on one day, standing on a roof in another city on another day? It’s offensive to even suggest players do that for a reward. It’s the gaming equivalent of little kids offering each other a quarter to eat dogpoo.

Vayne.8563:

There’s a new category of things to do that give you different rewards. Anet’s big mistake was to call them dailies. What they should have done with left the daily log in reward named dailies and changed the new system to daily challenges and everyone would have been happy, because now you’re getting more, literally without doing anything.

Challenges? Really? And getting something for not doing anything is terrible.

Vayne.8563:

Then you can do the challenges as EXTRA above and beyond, but you dont’ have to, because you’re not losing anythign except achievement points if you don’t do them.

If you don’t care about achievement points, ignore the dailies. If you do care about achievement points you get 10 now fast as you used to get 5.

I care about a palatable game that treats its players as intelligent individuals instead of presenting them with stupid pet tricks that give disproportionate rewards.

Vayne.8563:

Who’s inconvenienced? People who care about achievement points, but absolutely refuse to do anything but PvE. For those people it’ll take longer to get their dailies.

I don’t care who’s inconvenienced. Anyone inconvenienced by any permutation of what the game offered should get their priorities straight. The word inconvenience shouldn’t come near the concept of gaming at all. Anyone suffering any kind of inconvenience should ask himself if he picked the right kind of entertainment. When gaming content is measured by the level of inconvenience, something has gone terribly wrong.

cupcakesandcatnomz.3924:

I think people are growing tired of all the crap arenanet is pulling these days, so much content and mechanics are being slaughtered and simplified, its just not fun anymore, there is no motivation behind it, the rewards are meh, the gameplay is getting numb because of it. Where did this npe bs even come from? Why 3 years later? did they change to a younger audience cause that would make sense o.o but if this keeps up then we’ll be seeing the birth of a new wildstar or archage..

Maybe they changed to an older audience. There are people in their 40s and 50s playing this game as their first computer game ever.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

The old system was silly. Sure it was good for you. You didn’t have to do anything to get the reward. Of course people liked it.

You had to play. I don’t that any more now.

Vayne.8563:

But that didn’t make it good. People are calling the new system lazy, when the old system was even lazier. Dodge X number of times? Gather anything? Seems to me people just want free stuff.

As opposed to parking a character in each city for doing vistas and gathering in the home instance, then doing 1 or 2 WvW tasks that take 2-5 minutes each, without contributing anything to the game mode or even acknowledging the presence of other people? This is the laziest, least involved version of the dailies ever. 10-15 minutes tops to gain 10 AP, and if I don’t think I can do it that fast, just log off without even trying. These dailies took the gaming out of the game.

Vayne.8563:

And you know, the log in rewards now are better than the daily rewards before the change.

Yes, ridiculous, lazy, and unsatisfying.

Vayne.8563:

All people are missing out on is achievement points. If those points are important, they’ll take the time to do them. If they’re not completely 100% attached to only doing PvE that’s about 10-15 minutes, each and every day.

And by the sheer tedium of it draining any desire to continue playing after. Magnificent.

Way to miss the point.

Before you logged in and played and got the daily. Now you log in and can ignore the daily if you so choose, because the rewards you get are better. This gives you more freedom.

And most of the time, I use that freedom to immediately log off. The old dailies enticed me to play. The new ones don’t. The new ones remind me that the game has taken a turn for the awful. Standing on a roof in The Black Citadel on one day, standing on a roof in another city on another day? It’s offensive to even suggest players do that for a reward. It’s the gaming equivalent of little kids offering each other a quarter to eat dogpoo.

Vayne.8563:

There’s a new category of things to do that give you different rewards. Anet’s big mistake was to call them dailies. What they should have done with left the daily log in reward named dailies and changed the new system to daily challenges and everyone would have been happy, because now you’re getting more, literally without doing anything.

Challenges? Really? And getting something for not doing anything is terrible.

Vayne.8563:

Then you can do the challenges as EXTRA above and beyond, but you dont’ have to, because you’re not losing anythign except achievement points if you don’t do them.

If you don’t care about achievement points, ignore the dailies. If you do care about achievement points you get 10 now fast as you used to get 5.

I care about a palatable game that treats its players as intelligent individuals instead of presenting them with stupid pet tricks that give disproportionate rewards.

Vayne.8563:

Who’s inconvenienced? People who care about achievement points, but absolutely refuse to do anything but PvE. For those people it’ll take longer to get their dailies.

I don’t care who’s inconvenienced. Anyone inconvenienced by any permutation of what the game offered should get their priorities straight. The word inconvenience shouldn’t come near the concept of gaming at all. Anyone suffering any kind of inconvenience should ask himself if he picked the right kind of entertainment. When gaming content is measured by the level of inconvenience, something has gone terribly wrong.

Every MMO has inconvenient things. Maybe you use a different definition of the word than I do. There are rewards in every MMO that require effort. Some people want the rewards, but don’t enjoy the activity. It’s happened in EVERY MMO I’ve ever played.

While there is less inconvenience in Guild Wars 2 than other MMOs I’ve played, anything you don’t want to do that you feel you should or have to is an inconvenience.

If you feel you need ascended weapons and armor (you don’t), leveling your crafting to 500 is inconvenient.

It’s also the price you pay for being able to craft it.

If you think it doesn’t have to be that way, you should make your own MMO and get rich.

Ayrilana.1396:

No, you’re ignoring the responses. There are, how difficult is it to do a vista? How difficult is it to do four events? How difficult is it to do a fractal and especially the days where you have the tiered version allowing you to completed two thirds of the daily? You use catch phrases as “organic” as you want all of the dailies to be able to be done passively. Anet could make it so the vista daily is in the same region as the event or world boss daily. Perhaps they want players to spread out and not all be in a single region each day. And once again, you’re only seeing the game as three separate. smaller games, rather than a single, complete one.

Since I’ve apparently phrased my points in a way that’s hard to understand, I’ll rephrase. I do not care that the new tasks are easier. I do not want easier. I want tasks that are engaging and fun. I found the old dailies to be better because they were completed while players had fun. I keep pointing to the old organic PvE tasks because PvE dailies were once like WvW/PvP ones are now. However, that’s not the real point.

The real point is that the new PvE tasks — should anyone chose to engage with them — are just chores to be completed before you go to have fun. I would not care if the tasks took five times as long. I’d prefer though, that however long they take, they be interesting game play. If that could be accomplished without returning to “organic” completion, I’d be fine. However: map to zone, click vista, then leave; map to zone, click 4 nodes, then leave; and do four events in blobs that remove any drama, threat from mobs or excitement from the event are just not fun, unless one’s idea of fun is Farmville.

The PvP/WvW tasks could be fun for people who like those modes because they accrue while having fun. You made the point earlier that PvP/WvW are “smaller.” That’s true, in that there are fewer things to do in those modes. There are a lot more things to do in PvE. many of which are not given a nod in the new dailies. The ones that are are included are all being crammed into 4 tasks per day. Most days feature 2 or more of the boring, terrible game play tasks.

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s nonsensical because you don’t understand that a game consists of more than a single game type and that perhaps Anet is treating it as such. I see no point in continuing to argue with you about this point as you have not understood it so far and likely will not in subsequent posts.

Ah, at last the ad hominem attack. That’s always a sign that people have no other counter to an argument.

vayne, i’m glad you’ve found a way to do your dailies that you enjoy, which cater to you. I don’t have any input on that section of the dailies. If they’re working for people, they’re fine.

I just propose that the pve dailies be reworked and expanded to cater to pve players. At presently they reward you for dipping your toe into pve (or not even that much) at a bizarre distribution of random points across the world. On a good day, perhaps 2 or 3 of them coincide, and if you regularly do the pve dailies, i challenge you to honestly say that you aren’t pleased to not have to WP all over the world to do them.

I simply propose that the zone specific ones become area-specific, and area specific become worldwide. Sure, you’re still not always going to get a set of dailies that you can do in your preferred place, but you can now at least do them all in one location.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s nonsensical because you don’t understand that a game consists of more than a single game type and that perhaps Anet is treating it as such. I see no point in continuing to argue with you about this point as you have not understood it so far and likely will not in subsequent posts.

Ah, at last the ad hominem attack. That’s always a sign that people have no other counter to an argument.

I will make a comment regarding this.

It’s not an ad hominem attack. You keep talking about the three game types and as if they should all be separate and isolated. We don’t have a daily (the overall daily, not the individual achievements) for PvP, WvW, and PvE; we have one for the entire game. This was what I was saying that you were not getting as you kept referring to PvE in all of your arguments.

I get it that you’re a PvE-only player and prefer to play only that. Unfortunately this restricts you to four achievements by your own choice. You don’t need daily achievements to reward you for playing what you find fun. If you do need daily achievements for this, then I would seriously think about whether what you find fun is actually fun.

And now I’m done.

Ayrilana.1396:

You keep talking about the three game types and as if they should all be separate and isolated. We don’t have a daily (the overall daily, not the individual achievements) for PvP, WvW, and PvE; we have one for the entire game. This was what I was saying that you were not getting as you kept referring to PvE in all of your arguments.

I get it that you’re a PvE-only player and prefer to play only that. Unfortunately this restricts you to four achievements by your own choice. You don’t need daily achievements to reward you for playing what you find fun. If you do need daily achievements for this, then I would seriously think about whether what you find fun is actually fun.

So the other game modes should get a daily for the play they find fun, but pve should not?

just making sure of your position.

I find the daily world boss one to be too restrictive. I think it could benefit from a choice of several, much like how pvp has choices for the class dailies.

Narrrz.7532:

Ayrilana.1396:

You keep talking about the three game types and as if they should all be separate and isolated. We don’t have a daily (the overall daily, not the individual achievements) for PvP, WvW, and PvE; we have one for the entire game. This was what I was saying that you were not getting as you kept referring to PvE in all of your arguments.

I get it that you’re a PvE-only player and prefer to play only that. Unfortunately this restricts you to four achievements by your own choice. You don’t need daily achievements to reward you for playing what you find fun. If you do need daily achievements for this, then I would seriously think about whether what you find fun is actually fun.

So the other game modes should get a daily for the play they find fun, but pve should not?

just making sure of your position.

No. That’s mixing part of what he said with mine. The other modes have simpler daily achievements because the modes are small which leads to less variation in achievements. There’s only so many things that Anet can have you do.

right, but since the other modes are smaller thee’s not really any room for specific achieves. Imagine if you had a ‘legacy of the foefire winner’ achieve. That would just be silly.

The same principle still applies to pve. The fact that there’s a much larger area isn’t really relevant. It’s still a small-to-tiny subset of the entire game area and the odds are that it’s out of the way. There’s no need for it to be that way, nobody benefits from it being that way – why make it/keep it that way?

Ayrilana.1396:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s nonsensical because you don’t understand that a game consists of more than a single game type and that perhaps Anet is treating it as such. I see no point in continuing to argue with you about this point as you have not understood it so far and likely will not in subsequent posts.

Ah, at last the ad hominem attack. That’s always a sign that people have no other counter to an argument.

I will make a comment regarding this.

It’s not an ad hominem attack. You keep talking about the three game types and as if they should all be separate and isolated. We don’t have a daily (the overall daily, not the individual achievements) for PvP, WvW, and PvE; we have one for the entire game. This was what I was saying that you were not getting as you kept referring to PvE in all of your arguments.

I get it that you’re a PvE-only player and prefer to play only that. Unfortunately this restricts you to four achievements by your own choice. You don’t need daily achievements to reward you for playing what you find fun. If you do need daily achievements for this, then I would seriously think about whether what you find fun is actually fun.

And now I’m done.

You don’t get me at all. I’m for more inclusive, fun systems. On the face of it, you’re for exclusionary systems that promote terrible game play in the form of mindless, dull PvE tasks.

Fwiw, when I do dailies, I usually do 2 or all 3 in WvW. If I want to tool around in PvE I do so, irrespective of dailies. As far as it goes, I’m on a quixotic quest to put more fun in games. I’d also prefer systems that work for everyone — or at least as many as possible, and I think the current dailies include some bad systems. That includes Master of Ruins and Badge Spender (or whatever it’s called).

If you’re done, so be it.

#downwithMMOville

Narrrz.7532:

does anyone honestly rub their hands in anticipation when they see a list like that, and then enthusiastically rush off to complete them? I just facepalm and waypoint to the silverwastes

No, but if I am nearby, I might as well do them. For example if I figure I may want to do a dungeon today, I’ll rather gather a group of newcomers (which still exist a-plenty) and do a lowbie Fractal for introduction, on an alt without many infusions). Same dungeon idea, but just picked a different one.

Same thing with things like gatherer or lumbered, I run through the zone for a different reason, I stop and gather some stuff which I otherwise wouldn’t have done.

Did the old dailies motivate you to do things? I hope not, as they came mostly automated while playing. And that reward I already got, right as I logged in. Compared the new dailies to the 1-2 “odd” dailies in the old system, the ones people didn’t do because they were out of their way: Sure, sometimes you did do them. When you ended up in front of them anyhow.

That’s what the new ones are. A small bonus for out of the way content, basically. Not a checklist of things to get done today before the day ends like the old ones.

The new dailies aren’t too bad in my opinion, except for one thing.

One of my main uses of dailies in the past was to help level my alts. Completing the full daily was a pretty good xp boost, and there were some less large boosts for the individual parts. There doesn’t seem to be any associated xp now. Not a huge issue, but I do find it lackluster.

Golgathoth.3967:

The new dailies aren’t too bad in my opinion, except for one thing.

One of my main uses of dailies in the past was to help level my alts. Completing the full daily was a pretty good xp boost, and there were some less large boosts for the individual parts. There doesn’t seem to be any associated xp now. Not a huge issue, but I do find it lackluster.

You get XP scrolls now which can be used by any character under 80 (gives 5% of a level) or save 20 of them up and buy a Tome of Knowledge from Miyani at the Mystic Forge (or any forge attendant I believe?) which will give you one level.

AdaephonDelat.3890:

Golgathoth.3967:

The new dailies aren’t too bad in my opinion, except for one thing.

One of my main uses of dailies in the past was to help level my alts. Completing the full daily was a pretty good xp boost, and there were some less large boosts for the individual parts. There doesn’t seem to be any associated xp now. Not a huge issue, but I do find it lackluster.

You get the XP scrolls now which can be used by any character under 80 (gives 5% of a level) or save 20 of them up and buy a Tome of Knowledge from Miyani at the Mystic Forge (or any forge attendant I believe?) which will give you one level.

The xp scrolls are the way to go for levelling. if you’re 0% progress to your next level, they’re exactly equal, scaling down in effectiveness to tome of knowledge being significantly worse when you’re right on the cusp of levelling.

AdaephonDelat.3890:

You get the XP scrolls now which can be used by any character under 80 (gives 5% of a level) or save 20 of them up and buy a Tome of Knowledge from Miyani at the Mystic Forge (or any forge attendant I believe?) which will give you one level.

D’oh, you’re right. That’s what I get for posting at 4:30am.
I guess even though the rewards are about the same (or better, really) it feels a bit less interesting or immediate. I dunno.

Vayne.8563:

Maybe they changed to an older audience. There are people in their 40s and 50s playing this game as their first computer game ever.

Huh?

I am in my 40s and have been playing computer games since the 70s.

Menadena.7482:

Vayne.8563:

Maybe they changed to an older audience. There are people in their 40s and 50s playing this game as their first computer game ever.

Huh?

I am in my 40s and have been playing computer games since the 70s.

Me too. That changes what, though? I’ve been playing computer games since the start. But there are plenty of older people just getting into it now. Unless you’re suggesting computer games were mainstream in the 70s and 80s and most people played them.

Sorry, the sense I got was ‘only people in their 20s and 30s know how to play games’. Being an adult female game player that is the type of attitude I run into a lot so am a bit sensitive to it. That everyone there is a college-age male and nobody else knows what they are doing.

Menadena.7482:

Sorry, the sense I got was ‘only people in their 20s and 30s know how to play games’. Being an adult female game player that is the type of attitude I run into a lot so am a bit sensitive to it. That everyone there is a college-age male and nobody else knows what they are doing.

I run a guild of a couple of hundred people. Most of us are over 30, or at least 30 ish. I’m 53, and a gamer. So is my wife.

But we have a whole lot of people in the guild who are older and just starting to game now. Or gaming to them before was a facebook game. People who never played a WASD game, people who can’t dodge well, people who don’t really have the experience or hand eye coordination.

For everyone person who’s a gamer, there’s probably a bunch of non-gamers playing who log in just to beat some stuff up. If my guild is anything to go by, 5% of the guild are really really good players (I’m not one of them) and maybe another 20% (just guestimating here) are competent players, as in people who really sort of get the whole game and combat system. But most of the people are just learning, or just messing around, or just hanging out and killing stuff in the open world. Probably more than half my guild has never set foot in a dungeon and most of the guild doesn’t PvP at all.

The dailies for me, take about 10 minutes, if that, because I’ve optimized the way I do dailies, taking the easiest stuff from each category. But for a lot of people, even people in my guild, they are just out of their comfort zone anywhere outside of open world PvP. They’re not going to do fractals, they’re not going to PvP, they’re not going to WvW.

However, it’s easy enough for people to get the daily if someone would just take the time to show them, which is what I try to do.

Vayne.8563:

The dailies for me, take about 10 minutes, if that, because I’ve optimized the way I do dailies, taking the easiest stuff from each category. But for a lot of people, even people in my guild, they are just out of their comfort zone anywhere outside of open world PvP. They’re not going to do fractals, they’re not going to PvP, they’re not going to WvW.

And they should also be able to do dailies, without having to do things they strongly dislike, or “cheating the system”.

Carighan.6758:

Lishtenbird.2814:

So the 2 recent years and the latest half a year with extensive daily options introduced after many threads and which made people happy do not count as an argument anymore?

There were no “extensive daily options”. It was rather the opposite.

…

Now we’re at version 3. The laurels, the one required currency, have been moved out of the daily quests, fixing that issue. At the same time the dailies themselves have been rolled back to a system like, but more so, version 1, being very specific and very random, wanting you to go out of your way to do stuff.
Only unlike version 1, the critical flaw of being a requirement no longer exists so players who don’t want a system to do that can simply ignore it safely at no cost to themselves.

That’s what happened.
The past implementation (which ran for ~1 years btw, if memory serves – not 2,5 years :P ) didn’t work. It fixed one issue of version 1, but also removed the entire point of why we got dailies in the first place. Now version 3 brings that point back into the game while also alleviating the issue the first version had.

And even the AP hunters cannot complain. Why?
Because while getting the daily meta was nearly automatic in version 2, getting 10-12 AP was quite the grind. You didn’t get that just from picking your nose in LA at all. It cost a lot of time.
While the new dailies are awfully specific, they’re also very small. Getting 3 of a type is a matter of 10-20 minutes, even if you go for the WvW ones. That’s a lot less time than getting 10 AP in the old system took.

Yes, some AP “hunters” CAN complain, but I will get to that. My main complaint with the new dailies, above and beyond Anet trying to ’’encourage’’ the players to other parts of the game is when they change things they usually take away some small thing that adversely affects how I choose to play, and others, judging by some of the comments I have seen in map chat. My wondering what the hell Anet was doing goes back to an issue I saw before I even started playing GW2, back when I was trying to do the downloads of the game files.

I don’t know about anyone else, but to me, if you are only allowed to have one progress bar because of physical screen space, unless all the files will always be the exact same size every time you download files that use that bar, what F-ing good is it? Have it show the total file size if anything, something actually useful, so you can tell if you have X Kbps download speed average, then it will take Y number of minutes or hours to complete.

And to those who will say “well just go to site X” to see what the download is going to be. Here is a wild idea, why not just use the EXISTING SYSTEM THAT IS ALREADY THERE to see what it is? What if someone downloads a part of the files, and then for whatever reason gets interrupted, and has to do it again? Is that web site going to be able to tell the user what specific files THEIR computer already downloaded and still needs? Not very likely.

Next problem. When the forced transmute exchange was implemented, this screwed over people who wanted to transmute their gear as they leveled their characters. Is having all skins available across all chars a good thing? Yes. Did some players still get kittened? Yes. The new system, by way of the forced exchange, treats every single item as if it were a level 80 piece of gear, and it only does not even half of what the old system did. Now, you can just change skins. Before, you could change the stats and the runes/sigils from either of the 2 items to the new one. Now, all you are doing is changing the skin.

Now on to the “improved” dailies. Apparently enough people complained about how difficult and what a pain in the kitten it was to get every single little AP you could, so Anet kittened up that part of the dailies as well. Was it an improvement? For some people, yes. Did some players still get kittened? Yes. Not everybody gave a kitten about getting every single little AP they possibly could every day. Some of us were happy doing whatever dailies we felt like doing, and were happy getting the 1 or 2 achievement points that doing that resulted in. NOW, those people who do not feel the need to traipse all over the maps get kittened out of those achievement points they would otherwise have gotten from the single daily items.

Now for the f2p system. I do not claim to speak for anybody else on this, but I think that if people stopped to think about it, they would see this as a problem as well. With this system now, it seems that Anet is flipping off (giving the middle finger in the U.S.) all the players off who previously to now were loyal in the point where they bought the game originally by offering the free players every part of the game (the first part AND HoT) if they buy HoT, and kittening over the original people by making them pay again for HoT. Yes, the f2p players are restricted use in the original part of the game, but doesn’t them buying HoT unlock those restrictions here? Let’s use simple math (example numbers only) and say the original game cost $50, and the HoT expansion costs $50. So for $100 the original players get the exact same capability as the people who only paid $50 for the HoT expansion. Why do more people not see this as a “kitten you”?

The rewards seem to be a “bit broken”.
We seem to be getting a daily reward on each character we log on to.

Probably won’t be reverted so once again it pays to be on right after an update.