Guild Wars 2

Prologue:

To anyone that knows and appreciates my “mile long” posts, this is probably the second last post of this kind I’ll do for a while, if ever, with the final one being reserved for the state of the Ranger, the first class I’ve ever played. In short, it feels ultimately pointless, like shouting at the void, with the sole reason for my persistence being some sense of absolution. “I tried my best”, I tell myself. Ultimately I’m just a random guy on a forum and most of my effort seems to be going to waste, so “meh”. Thank you, all 2 of you (including myself and my ego) that care.

So, without further to do: Yes, it will be long. No, there is no tl;dr. Grab a chair.

ACT I: What was advertised

My, my. It’s been around a year now, hasn’kitten Quite a lot has changed. I remember when I bought into this game. I had been interested in it for a while when a friend, which had been here since the beta weekends, offered me the free trial that came with the first Southsun update. I found myself surprisingly interested.

At first I was cautious. I went through the MMO phase when I was around 15-17. I’ve grown out of it. If you like it more power to you, but as far as I’m concerned most MMOs I’ve ever seen or heard of were the same pointless waste of time – vertical progression and grind. Uninteresting “locked in” combat and gameplay, a “world” peppered by useless cardboard cut out figures that offer you the same 2 or 3 variations of fetch quests or head hunting missions (“Am I finding or killing how much of what this time…?”), and a core surrounding repeating the exact same kittening thing from start to the day you quit, only to see arbitrary numbers pop up that define how powerful you are, all while playing in a world full of players you hate as their mere presence hinders your progress. Basic linear gameplay and aggressive vertical progression assured that the majority of what mattered in any encounter was not your knowledge of the game mechanics, not how much you’ve learned and could apply, but how much time I had sunk into the game. A kitten slap contest between two creatures to see which was wearing the heavier gloves. I abhorred them. I tried as many as I could hoping to find that mythical creature, that MMO that had actually good gameplay and no grind. Eventually I gave up. I simply assumed that it couldn’t be done, as nobody interested in making those kind of games possessed either the knowledge, insight or interest to make such a beast.

When I saw Guild Wars 2 I saw hope. Here was an MMO with what seemed like a solid combat system (“action based combat” they call it, apparently). Sure, it’s not perfect. There are a lot of “lock ons” and similar crap, but an immense improvement over anything I’d seen before. There was movement. There was aiming (to some degree at least). There was a system that actual rewarded people for what we in the fighting game community call “footsies” (look it up), at least after a fashion. It was remarkable. Furthermore GW2 proposed something else, something I’ve longed for but had never seen done – It proposed to make you actually want to play with other people in the world you’re in. HOLY kitten!? For real?! An MMO where I am happy to see other players? Instead of looking for any way to demotivate them from permeating the same area as me, lest they end up robbing me of my loot and exp? Surreal.

But there was one more thing. The combat was the core. Even if everything else was in place, I wouldn’t have joined this game if its fighting consisted of the “same ol’ stand in place and trade abilities” combat I detested. The change to the loot, exp and reward system (“everyone is a friend”) was a massive motivator. But the final piece of the puzzle was yet to be decided. One thing was still left, without which I wouldn’t have considered my purchase: What about the grind? What about vertical progression? At the time, a friend assured me getting to max level and BIS gear was relatively simple, trivial even, if cosmetic was not to be a concern. But I did my own homework. I studied the game’s prices and gear availability during the free trial. I looked up developer interviews and the so called “manifesto”. All pointed to the same thing: End game in GW2 was to revolve around horizontal progression, not vertical. “We don’t make grindy games” was a phrase that was thrown around often and proud.

1/x

Everything was in place. I got the game, and for a while, it was good. My friend was right, getting to lvl 80 and BIS gear (exotic at the time) was trivial. Sure, the game wasn’t perfect, it had a lot of flaws even, but the core was solid enough to keep me playing. I made a lvl 80 of each class. Tried all races. Even got some classes multiple sets of gear. The combat was good, and I felt free to play however I wanted. Sure, the end-game was lacking, particularly the PvE side of it, with incredibly boring and uninteresting “tank n’ spank” encounters being the norm. The entire later portion of the game, particularly, was so obviously rushed out the door… But that was OK. The game promised on-going development, and it was showing signs of keeping to it, so no big deal. I can wait as long as the game stays enjoyable. Dynamic combat and little to no grind? This game was aimed at me!

And for a while, it was good.

ACT II: The best laid plans of mice and men…

“But little Mouse, you are not alone,
In proving foresight may be vain:
The best laid schemes of mice and men
Go often awry,
And leave us nothing but grief and pain,
For promised joy!”

Change was coming. It began with Fractals of the Mists. A whole new dungeon, directed at the vertical progression crowd! Nothing wrong with that by itself. After all there’s nothing wrong with having parts of your game dedicated to different types of players. Sure, it may not be my thing, but so what? Let’em have it if they want it. Slightly less acceptable was what they came bundled with: Ascended rings and backpacks. In retrospect, it should have been an obvious omen. A symptom of that disease I loathed. But alas, I chose to give the ANet team the benefit of the doubt. Sure, it was a bad antecedent, but right then and there it was just a couple of rings and a backpack… Not that big a deal. After all, their entire game up to that point had been built and sold on a concept that was diametrically opposite to the idea of vertical progression. That was what they used to sell their game. That was the audience they had called for, and the one that had answered.

Fast forward 10 months, and it’s easy to see I was wrong. Oh, how hopelessly optimistic, how drowned in hope and denial, my “gambit” now seems. More ascended gear followed, with more promised to come. All of it with superior stats. All of it hard of acquisition, all of it heavily time gated. Nice and slowly the game covered itself with a viscous layer of the very material it once denounced! In my mind I can’t shake off the image of campaigning politicians. The game that was once proud of letting you play how you wanted is now burying you with chores. Dailies, monthlies, temporary content, time gating and other artificial limitations piled on top of more gear and leveling (WvW) grind… Chores you must do TODAY OR NEVER AGAIN!!, every day, the way they want you to or not at all.

Hey ANet, I have a secret tip for you: Chores aren’t usually associated with fun. It used to be that I could play the game the way I wanted, when I wanted. No time to play today? No problem. Maybe I’ll play double tomorrow. Or maybe this week isn’t good, I’ll play extra next week when I can. Not anymore. Now ANet had taken upon itself to ration out my playtime for me. “Log in, do your daily/monthly, do your ascended crafting – all of it. Do you want any Celestial stuff in the near future? Do that too then. And don’t forget dungeon runs, fractals, bosses, and whatever else you give a kitten about in this game. Once per day! And no you can’t do extra tomorrow! It’s our way or the hard way!”. Augh. Honestly, does anyone in your offices think this is fun? With every update there’s more and more crap that’s piling up on the treadmill list…

That said please, PLEASE, don’t get me wrong or intentionally try to misinterpret my words. I’m not against additional content. I’m against additional, forced, treadmill content. As I said before, I’m not against Fractals and ascended being directed at the vertical progression nuts… Let’em have it if it floats their boat. I’m against it sipping into the rest of the game. I’m not against dailies and laurels. I’m against them being the only way to acquire laurels, and them being time gated. I’m not against living story updates. I’m against timed updates that you need to do now to collect the reward/achievements or never again (unless you’re lucky). I’m against focusing on throwing more arbitrary temporary stuff at us instead of fixing the core flaws the game shipped with. Which leads us to a final grievance…

…Most of the flaws the game shipped with are still there. A year of temporary content later and most of the core problems are the same. If anything, they’re actually aggravated by all the additional forced grind and vertical progression.

2/x

• For a game with such a focus on aesthetics and cosmetics as end game it is still egregiously impractical and expensive to just switch looks (no wardrobe system for example). Every time I want a new look I’m expected to not only acquire said look, but to either farm an entire new armor set to place it on, or erase the old look I acquired on top of being forced to acquire a “premium-shop-only” item – Transmutation crystals. It’s simply not a viable system for a game that wanted its end-game to revolve around these cosmetics.
• The “Pact” storyline is still a depressing excuse for… anything really. Particularly “Victory or Death” which is still the single worst “final boss fight/dungeon” I’ve ever seen in a game.
• sPvP is still a completely separate entity that segregates PvE/WvW progress from itself. Of course level and gear stats need to be separate due to the nature of PvP, but what about the rest? Why different currencies? Why can’t I keep my PvE aspect in PvP or vice versa? Why is progression in PvP so… asinine? Feels like the entire progression in that mode was a rushed afterthought that has never been addressed. Even dailies/monthly (which, ironically, you have no real reason to do if you’re strictly a PvP player) are stuck in the uninspired linear “do these 4 every day forever” mess of 6 months ago for the rest of the game…
• PvP is still stuck to that one game mode, with classics like CTF, KotH or good’ol team deathmatch still ruefully neglected.
• The dungeon system is still a mess, with a full set of gear requiring me to grind a dungeon to utter exhaustion (timed gated grind, of course), after which I never wanna see that dungeon again.
• WvW still lacks proper structure and organization, such as proper commander support, being filled with more and more game breaking trash such as leveling grind with gamebreaking “traits”, and now the horrid bloodlust buff (the new redesign of the middle of the borderlands is great, mind you, it’s just the bloodlust that sucks horribly).
• Most PvE encounters are still uninspired and linear, with the AI behavior being somewhere along the lines of “run at enemies and attack till they die”.
• For all the temporary content, the permanent additions are still rather lacking, with the downside that anyone unfortunate enough to join in or comeback now will naturally feel confused and utterly uninvested in the current events.
• Some balance issues with broken or useless traits/skills (classes? hinthintrangerhinthint) have yet to be addressed one year later…

… etc.

And unfortunately, this seems like the way it’s going to be… ANet have made their new strategy clear. They’ve thrown their manifesto out the window. You can safely disregard everything they’ve said before (and take anything they say now with mountainous piles of salt, cause you know it’s only sticking as long as it is convenient). Vertical progression, grind, temporary chores and time gating are the new kitten, and it’s here to stay. The rest is secondary. We’ve come a long way in a year…

“Still you are blessed, compared with me!
The present only touches you:
But oh! I backward cast my eye,
On prospects dreary!
And forward, though I cannot see,
I guess and fear!”

ACT III: Could have, should have, didn’t.

You know what the saddest part of all of this was? It was all so…predictable. So avoidable. It’s easy to see why it happened, but it was so easy to avoid…

The game shipped out incomplete, unfinished and rushed out the door. This is a fact the developers themselves have admitted to several times now – as if one needed anything other than observation. Hell, most of Orr didn’t even work on release (arguably a lot of it still doesn’t, glitching and stalling frequently). Seeing as you can’t start building a roof without the foundations being finished, naturally, the late game was the most unfinished. In a game where reaching end game was relatively simple, a lot of complaints followed swiftly regarding the poor state of the end-game (see above). ANet (and NCSoft?) started feeling the pressure and took the path of least resistance – add more grind. Add something shiny for people to look at, and make it stronger so they’re forced to go for it. Add some tight time gating and voilá, instant end-game that’ll tie off your population for a few months! And I can’t even begin to talk about the mess PvP became trying to be League of Legends despite being a completely different game (and how that affected WvW…).

Pity. A real pity.

3/x

• Dailies/monthlies could have been something amazing, a “bonus” for logging in every day, if only they weren’t the only way of acquiring laurels.

• Ascended could have been a long term goal everyone would work for, due to the sheer convenience of it, but nobody felt forced to do, if instead of being statistically superior they were simply offered something else: the ability to switch stats “on demand” when outside of battle.

• Additionally, by having agony resistance, they could be used as a means of soft vertical progression in the PvE side of things, without affecting WvW. Parts of the open world could have enemies with agony. Optional (keyword) new places where agony was present and, while not mandatory, agony resistance would prove very useful.
• You could even add other forms of agony other than the “poison on steroids” it is. Further “agony” conditions in those places that would be several diminished by agony resistance.
• Fractals could still be fractals, the “hard vertical gated” content for the vertical progression fans.
• Furthermore, it would stop the ridiculous stat inflation WvW is already subject to…

• You could have had an end game focused on building a wardrobe. With increasingly difficult to acquire skins behind difficult bosses, and a PvE focused around the incredibly solid dynamic fighting system you created.

• Legendaries could have been tests of game knowledge and skill, requiring the player to best different areas of the game, instead of grinding to amass a gigantic laundry list of “ingredients” to cobble together.

• You could have had a solid WvW experience… Something so very few games have ever managed on an similar scale… Instead of the increasingly trashy “grind and blob ’round the clock” mess it’s becoming

You could have done so many things… You should have, actually, given your promises… But you didn’t. You still can change most of it, but I’m not holding my breath.

I’ve mentioned before that GW2 felt schizophrenic, regarding something else at the time. I fear that particular disease has spread. Currently the game feels… Lost. Without direction. Like it’s trying to be everything, and do everything on a surface level, with no real idea where it’s going from there. Like a kid in a playground that is trying so hard to belong to every group that ends up never being a part of any. “We don’t want grind! Just grind! Ok a little bit! But not too much! Grind this much exactly! But do it everyday. We’re all about the PvE… PvP, I mean. E-SPORTS! HERE IS ANOTHER STORY OF SOMETHING WHO CARES WHAT! PLEASE LOVE ME!”

ACT IV: Eulogy

Almost a year ago I saw something. I saw a lot of potential. I saw the game I’ve been waiting for since I was 15. Unfortunately that’s not the game I’m playing anymore. GW2 today isn’t that game. In fact, I don’t think it knows what game it is either. It reminds me of the Jarhead fiasco – A great movie in its own right, that faced incredibly harsh criticism mostly because it was marketed as something it was very clearly not (i.e.: an action movie). GW2 set itself up for a specific audience. It waved the flag, set the speech, and took all the nice pictures kissing babies and such… Now it’s turning around, saying it’s something else, but not really, but, but, but… Make up your minds ANet. Choose a direction and embrace it.

Don’t look at this as an “I quit!” post. I didn’t, not yet. I’m hanging around (with rapidly fading enthusiasm, I admit) to see what happens for now. When it gets too much for me I’ll quit then. I’m hoping that, somehow, GW2 can still become that game I was waiting for. Either ways, the game needs to decide what it wants to be.

Around 17 thousand characters later, 8 standard pages, I’m done (man the posting system is gonna have a fit with this one…). Thanks for reading, honestly. If anyone at ANet reads this, my sincerest thank you and best of luck whichever path you choose.

PS: Give yourselves some sort of achievement for reading all of this, jesus christ…

4/x

Nice opinion piece…which is pretty much just that. A very long opinion piece, but you blow it at the end.

You say this could be avoided,. but you don’t really know that. It’s pure conjecture. I’m not sure you’d said anything here that hasn’t been said in countless threads.

Vayne.8563:

Nice opinion piece…which is pretty much just that. A very long opinion piece, but you blow it at the end.

You say this could be avoided,. but you don’t really know that. It’s pure conjecture. I’m not sure you’d said anything here that hasn’t been said in countless threads.

It’s just his opinion? Is it somehow worth less than any other post? I was pretty sure he made it clear this was his opinion, what with the heavily personalized introduction.

Your post comes across as solely attempting to devalue the worth of the OP.

@OP, thanks for the achievement; 20 pts closer to my new shiny helmet! But seriously, great post. As Vayne so eloquently pointed out, a lot of people echo this opinion but it’s nice to see someone who’s clearly passionate about how they feel and felt for the game over its lifetime elaborate on that in a post such as yours.

-Dailies/Monthlies
I never “go for” these, they just sometimes happen while I’m playing and sometimes they don’t. Never seems like a chore I have to do. If I accomplish one, great! If not, oh well. I think you have the wrong or at least a different point of view on these which is your own perception, nothing that ANet has said/done. You NEED laurels just as much as you NEED a legendary.

-Ascended Stuff
You in no way need ascended gear everything is easily completed with exotics and they are far from mandatory. If you personally WANT to grind to get them so you can… uh… grind more things faster? that is your choice.

“Ascended could have been a long term goal everyone would work for, due to the sheer convenience of it, but nobody felt forced to do.”

That’s how it already is.

-Temporary Content
While it has never personally caused me any grief I can understand how it could be frustrating to miss out on content. My experience has usually been, ok whats it about this week? Sky Pirates…. Floating Bazaar, meh, not interested. Or, oh nice the Super Adventure Box is back. Tribulation mode? kitten yea! Its gonna be around for a month? Well I can’t play today or this week, but next week I can. Being temporary can help with the feeling of a growing/changing/living world. We’re not gonna have the queen’s jubilee all year long, we’re not gonna have Wintersday all year long, it doesn’t make sense lorewise. We’ve finished that chapter, now its on to the next. If I wanted to play an event and missed it, I’d probably be a little upset, but I also have a feeling this content will be returning one way or another, chronicled events ala the Gwen flashbacks in GW1 or the Wintersday toyshop? Could be…

-Agony
Putting this in general PvE “forces” people to have to do Fractals. Anything you put as optional, someone will argue that they HAVE to do it (see yourself and ascended gear).

-WvW
Its what you make it. I have very rarely been a part of a “zerg” (typically solo-10 people) and have a great time every time I go into WvW. Now I will admit, it was not so fun in higher tiers, but thats why I switched to a lower tier where strategy counts for a lot more to make up for a lack of numbers. That experience is out there if you are willing to go for it.

I don’t understand why people feel compelled to play or do certain things (addiction maybe) but I have never gotten that from GW2. If I want to do something, I do it, if I don’t, I don’t. I don’t complain about it and do it anyway.
I have a feeling its just a matter of perspective. I have fun while still seeing potential in the game and look forward to future updates.

Thank you for the 20 points, they gave me a sense of progression

Vayne.8563:

Nice opinion piece…which is pretty much just that. A very long opinion piece, but you blow it at the end.

You say this could be avoided,. but you don’t really know that. It’s pure conjecture. I’m not sure you’d said anything here that hasn’t been said in countless threads.

LOL. Do you even read the stuff you post? If what he said has been stated previously in “countless threads”, maybe … just maybe … it goes beyond pure conjecture and maybe … just maybe … a lot of it could indeed have been avoided if ANet had just taken all that ’countless" feedback seriously.

Haha, 180 ap left till my next chest!

It was a good solid read, very nicely written.

I agree with you and it’s how I feel about this game currently aswell.

Spot on. This pretty much sums up how I feel about this game as well. I think the problem may be people like us who despise vertical progression and barriers to entry are a minority…

We’re like the lab rats that got away, liberated and free, we can’t be put back into those cages no more. Most of the ‘lab rats’ in the mmo scene though long for their hamster wheel and regimented dosages of ‘fun’.

You could even make a allusion to Moses’s Jews wandering the desert, searching for a home. We are few in number, with a unique point of view, or faith even…always looking for our holy land. GW2 was suppose to be that holy land, OUR holy land…and it feels JUST like our holy land has been invaded and corrupted by the Romans. So now I guess, following this to its logical conclusion, we need a Messiah to liberate us and lead us to gaming salvation. One can only pray… ;p

To ProxyDamage:

I can’t agree with you more. The main reason I got GW2 was because I’m also a GW veteran. I was looking forward to GW but with an Open world. Instead I got skill restrictions on weapons, Zergs, Zergs, and more Zergs, No GvG or Hero’s Ascent, A class mechanic that is total BS(ranger here too), oh and did I mention the Zergs.

To go along with all this now we have the gear-creap as I lilke to call it. You don’t have to get an Ascended weapon to do all the stuff in GW2 but it sure helps. It’s just the start of the gear treadmill. Just wait till they release an expansion and raise the level cap and this all starts over again.

Anet did it right with GW, 20 was cap and when they added Greens, they were just different skins that were harder to get to drop. Hell to this day the #1 armor in GW is still Obsidian and it was in at the start. When they released Factions they kept the level cap at 20 and even made it easier to reach, think it took me 8 hrs with my Assassin. They realized that that was too quick and lengthened it with the release of Nightfall. And never did they release weapons or armor that was any better than what was tops in Prophecies.

If Anet goes the way of the treadmill then I guess I may as well go back to SWToR since it’s a universe I’ve loved since 1976.

Cactus.2710:

Vayne.8563:

Nice opinion piece…which is pretty much just that. A very long opinion piece, but you blow it at the end.

You say this could be avoided,. but you don’t really know that. It’s pure conjecture. I’m not sure you’d said anything here that hasn’t been said in countless threads.

LOL. Do you even read the stuff you post? If what he said has been stated previously in “countless threads”, maybe … just maybe … it goes beyond pure conjecture and maybe … just maybe … a lot of it could indeed have been avoided if ANet had just taken all that ’countless" feedback seriously.

Countless threads? You can’t count them? Are you sure?

More than a thousand threads? I’m sure you can count up to a thousand. It doesn’t even take that long.

Anet has metrics. Threads are very nice, but you know…they’re just that…threads. And people in those negative threads sometimes disagree with the threads.

And MMORPG forums are usually cesspools of complaint no matter how well a game is doing.

How many complaints are troll threads too, because I’ve seen a few of those (though I agree this one is not).

Complaints on forums are nothing to get excited about. They sure as hell don’t guarantee a majority opinion.

Vayne.8563:

Cactus.2710:

Vayne.8563:

Nice opinion piece…which is pretty much just that. A very long opinion piece, but you blow it at the end.

You say this could be avoided,. but you don’t really know that. It’s pure conjecture. I’m not sure you’d said anything here that hasn’t been said in countless threads.

LOL. Do you even read the stuff you post? If what he said has been stated previously in “countless threads”, maybe … just maybe … it goes beyond pure conjecture and maybe … just maybe … a lot of it could indeed have been avoided if ANet had just taken all that ’countless" feedback seriously.

Countless threads? You can’t count them? Are you sure?

More than a thousand threads? I’m sure you can count up to a thousand. It doesn’t even take that long.

Anet has metrics. Threads are very nice, but you know…they’re just that…threads. And people in those negative threads sometimes disagree with the threads.

And MMORPG forums are usually cesspools of complaint no matter how well a game is doing.

How many complaints are troll threads too, because I’ve seen a few of those (though I agree this one is not).

Complaints on forums are nothing to get excited about. They sure as hell don’t guarantee a majority opinion.

Uhh … you’re the one who used the word “countless”. I was simply parroting you. How could that possibly have escaped you??

This thread will be ignored by ANet.

Cactus.2710:

Vayne.8563:

Cactus.2710:

Vayne.8563:

Nice opinion piece…which is pretty much just that. A very long opinion piece, but you blow it at the end.

You say this could be avoided,. but you don’t really know that. It’s pure conjecture. I’m not sure you’d said anything here that hasn’t been said in countless threads.

LOL. Do you even read the stuff you post? If what he said has been stated previously in “countless threads”, maybe … just maybe … it goes beyond pure conjecture and maybe … just maybe … a lot of it could indeed have been avoided if ANet had just taken all that ’countless" feedback seriously.

Countless threads? You can’t count them? Are you sure?

More than a thousand threads? I’m sure you can count up to a thousand. It doesn’t even take that long.

Anet has metrics. Threads are very nice, but you know…they’re just that…threads. And people in those negative threads sometimes disagree with the threads.

And MMORPG forums are usually cesspools of complaint no matter how well a game is doing.

How many complaints are troll threads too, because I’ve seen a few of those (though I agree this one is not).

Complaints on forums are nothing to get excited about. They sure as hell don’t guarantee a majority opinion.

Uhh … you’re the one who used the word “countless”. I was simply parroting you. How could that possibly have escaped you??

At this hour, anything can escape me. You should keep my schedule. lol

+1 OP.

I’ve posted something similar to this a number of times, in a more condensed form.
Now we’ll wait for it to get locked by a mod for some stupid reason.

Mathias.9657:

This thread will be ignored by ANet.

Like everything else. Nothing’s new.

Cactus.2710:

Vayne.8563:

Cactus.2710:

Vayne.8563:

… been said in countless threads.

LOL. Do you even read the stuff you post? If what he said has been stated previously in “countless threads”, maybe … just maybe … it goes beyond pure conjecture and maybe … just maybe … a lot of it could indeed have been avoided if ANet had just taken all that ’countless" feedback seriously.

Countless threads? You can’t count them? Are you sure?

More than a thousand threads? I’m sure you can count up to a thousand. It doesn’t even take that long.

Anet has metrics. Threads are very nice, but you know…they’re just that…threads. And people in those negative threads sometimes disagree with the threads.

And MMORPG forums are usually cesspools of complaint no matter how well a game is doing.

How many complaints are troll threads too, because I’ve seen a few of those (though I agree this one is not).

Complaints on forums are nothing to get excited about. They sure as hell don’t guarantee a majority opinion.

Uhh … you’re the one who used the word “countless”. I was simply parroting you. How could that possibly have escaped you??

I lol’d at this pretty hard.

Thanks, Proxy. Your thread was a good read. Your journey parallels mine to some point. Wherever you end up, I wish you well.

ProxyDamage.9826:

Don’t look at this as an “I quit!” post. I didn’t, not yet. I’m hanging around (with rapidly fading enthusiasm, I admit) to see what happens for now.

You are wasting your time son. This game will never be what you or I wanted it to be.
They made a choice long ago to follow this path and there’s no coming back from it.

I can predict one thing with certainty though, call me crazy if you must. The game will not die. It will become more and more similar to conventional MMOs. More vertical progression will be added, new levels and gear tiers. New grindy elements and features will be added, to the point the game will be unrecognizable.
Yes, it will loose many players in the process but in the end it will remain a popular game. A game I won’t be playing.

Skyline.3480:

ProxyDamage.9826:

Don’t look at this as an “I quit!” post. I didn’t, not yet. I’m hanging around (with rapidly fading enthusiasm, I admit) to see what happens for now.

You are wasting your time son. This game will never be what you or I wanted it to be.
They made a choice long ago to follow this path and there’s no coming back from it.

I can predict one thing with certainty though, call me crazy if you must. The game will not die. It will become more and more similar to conventional MMOs. More vertical progression will be added, new levels and gear tiers. New grindy elements and features will be added, to the point the game will be unrecognizable.
Yes, it will loose many players in the process but in the end it will remain a popular game. A game I won’t be playing.

As it becomes more similar to conventional MMO’s it puts itself into more and more danger of being obsoleted by the newest and shiniest conventional MMO that comes out.

Anet was formed by Ex-Blizzard Employees. It’s perhaps time for some Anet people to split away and form their own company.

Skyline.3480:

ProxyDamage.9826:

Don’t look at this as an “I quit!” post. I didn’t, not yet. I’m hanging around (with rapidly fading enthusiasm, I admit) to see what happens for now.

You are wasting your time son. This game will never be what you or I wanted it to be.
They made a choice long ago to follow this path and there’s no coming back from it.

I can predict one thing with certainty though, call me crazy if you must. The game will not die. It will become more and more similar to conventional MMOs. More vertical progression will be added, new levels and gear tiers. New grindy elements and features will be added, to the point the game will be unrecognizable.
Yes, it will loose many players in the process but in the end it will remain a popular game. A game I won’t be playing.

See I don’t think so. I think it’s still on a moderate progression path…and they intend to stay that way..that is the gear progression is going to be relatively minor stat-wise compared to other games. You won’t need the gear to run dungeons.

That’s my prediction anyway.

Serelisk.6573:

Vayne.8563:

Nice opinion piece…which is pretty much just that. A very long opinion piece, but you blow it at the end.

You say this could be avoided,. but you don’t really know that. It’s pure conjecture. I’m not sure you’d said anything here that hasn’t been said in countless threads.

It’s just his opinion? Is it somehow worth less than any other post? I was pretty sure he made it clear this was his opinion, what with the heavily personalized introduction.

Your post comes across as solely attempting to devalue the worth of the OP.

@OP, thanks for the achievement; 20 pts closer to my new shiny helmet! But seriously, great post. As Vayne so eloquently pointed out, a lot of people echo this opinion but it’s nice to see someone who’s clearly passionate about how they feel and felt for the game over its lifetime elaborate on that in a post such as yours.

But that’s what the bots do, they devalue people’s opinions on how the game should be (based on what we were told prelaunch when Anet didn’t cut itself off from it’s players and actually worked with us).

OP I completely agree with you. If they wanted to add fractals they should have done it from the start, if they wanted to have ascended they should have kept the points the same but added something essential for running fractals/dungeons. But they didn’t do either of those things.

The open world has been made worse. The only time anyone shows up in a zone outside of Queensdale or SFen is due to a daily requirement or the single zone invasions. The problems this game has aren’t going to be solved overnight but they actually do have to try to start on them and what would show us they were serious about making the game better would be two things. Changing the stats on ascended to be no better than exotic, and removing DR. Those two things right there would be a show of solidarity to their playerbase in moving forward.

> You in no way need ascended gear

New players coming to WvW next year will find themselves up against enemies with ascended weapon and armour sets that give a very real advantage, and that need massive amounts of time and money to acquire.

You didn’t need ascended gear when it was just trinkets that gave a few extra stat points, plus agony resistance for fractals. You will increasingly need ascended gear (for WvW at least) as it moves to a full set of armour, weapons and trinkets.

I understand that WvW, while the most fun and innovative part of the game is not valued by NCSoft/ANet, but it’s sad to see it damaged in this way.

5+ for the effort, but since ANet doesnt take feedback its wasted.

And you are wrong if you think theres no direction for GW2. Its headed for the east and will get same tratement in the west like other NCSoft games (Aion/Lineage)

Oh, and for the poster above, there are so few new players incoming that its not really a concern

Kudos to OP for summarizing most what is wrong with the development of GW2. I agree with almost all of it and find myself playing less and less every day.

I still ain’t bitter. My /age shows I’ve spent a formidable number of hours playing GW2 and most of that time has been fun indeed. It’s been a great ride and the best part? The game has no sub, so I will be coming back every now and then to see what they’ve added/changed to the game.

I took a few months pause earlier this year and now it seems it’s time for me to take another pause. Incidentally, BF4 is just around the corner, so…

MikaHR.1978:

5+ for the effort, but since ANet doesnt take feedback its wasted.

And you are wrong if you think theres no direction for GW2. Its headed for the east and will get same tratement in the west like other NCSoft games (Aion/Lineage)

Oh, and for the poster above, there are so few new players incoming that its not really a concern

Few players? Like the new sales that will come from China? lol

MikaHR.1978:

5+ for the effort, but since ANet doesnt take feedback its wasted.

Oh the knights on the white horses …

A.net takes feedback very seriously and has shown to do so on many, many occasions. Such statements as yours don’t help anyone.

Maybe A.net doesn’t the the feedback you’d like most, but that says more about you than A.net.

Vayne.8563:

See I don’t think so. I think it’s still on a moderate progression path…and they intend to stay that way..that is the gear progression is going to be relatively minor stat-wise compared to other games. You won’t need the gear to run dungeons.

That’s my prediction anyway.

Really? Its still the same thing though. If they add another gear after Ascended, say, with another ‘minor’ stat boost of 10%, then another tier after that…..its still vertical and will still divide players as the stat difference from exotic to whatever the current tier may be gets larger and larger. Just because they’re doing it in smaller increments doesn’t mean it’s not there or gets to be called something else.
Its like your power company throwing a power rate increases at you – suddenly hike the bill by $200 in one shot or by increasing the bill by $10 over time so they can claim its better than the other company who does it in one shot.

Mr ProxyDamage, sir. I enjoy reading through all that. Really. It kind of sums up my own sentiments. I’m not one who is fond of the whole MMORPG thing anyways. I always equate MMOs = grind. The only other MMO I ever played aside this was EVE and I left that because RL imposed economical restraints that made monthly subscriptions a burden. Otherwise I’d have stayed there.

But I digress. I too came to GW2 with a couple of other friends with the… hope, that this was different. It certainly was, at the beginning. I liked that BiS gear was easily attainable. I liked getting that out of the way so quickly so I can focus on other fun things. But things changed. OH well…

but really, nice read. Thanks for taking time to write it

marnick.4305:

MikaHR.1978:

5+ for the effort, but since ANet doesnt take feedback its wasted.

Oh the knights on the white horses …

A.net takes feedback very seriously and has shown to do so on many, many occasions. Such statements as yours don’t help anyone.

Maybe A.net doesn’t the the feedback you’d like most, but that says more about you than A.net.

Uh-huh. Santa is not real also. Im sorry.

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

5+ for the effort, but since ANet doesnt take feedback its wasted.

And you are wrong if you think theres no direction for GW2. Its headed for the east and will get same tratement in the west like other NCSoft games (Aion/Lineage)

Oh, and for the poster above, there are so few new players incoming that its not really a concern

Few players? Like the new sales that will come from China? lol

If you move to Chinese servers yah ROFL

MrRuin.9740:

Vayne.8563:

See I don’t think so. I think it’s still on a moderate progression path…and they intend to stay that way..that is the gear progression is going to be relatively minor stat-wise compared to other games. You won’t need the gear to run dungeons.

That’s my prediction anyway.

Really? Its still the same thing though. If they add another gear after Ascended, say, with another ‘minor’ stat boost of 10%, then another tier after that…..its still vertical and will still divide players as the stat difference from exotic to whatever the current tier may be gets larger and larger. Just because they’re doing it in smaller increments doesn’t mean it’s not there or gets to be called something else.
Its like your power company throwing a power rate increases at you – suddenly hike the bill by $200 in one shot or by increasing the bill by $10 over time so they can claim its better than the other company who does it in one shot.

Unless the older stuff becomes so easy to get that everyone has it…which is doable.

Everyone sees vertical progression and they think full on gear treadmill…cause that’s how everyone else has done it.

If you guys can’t see the difference between this and other MMOs, I’m not really sure what else I can say about it.

Some people can really be frustrated about things that really doesn’t matter. The game needs to be fun. If that’s true then everything is fine. And sticking some ideology to a game does not make it any better.

Vayne.8563:

Nice opinion piece…which is pretty much just that. A very long opinion piece, but you blow it at the end.

You say this could be avoided,. but you don’t really know that. It’s pure conjecture. I’m not sure you’d said anything here that hasn’t been said in countless threads.

I agree. ProxyDamage, you should never mix opinions with conjecture. How could you?

Ridiculous.
/sarcasm

MikaHR.1978:

marnick.4305:

MikaHR.1978:

5+ for the effort, but since ANet doesnt take feedback its wasted.

Oh the knights on the white horses …

A.net takes feedback very seriously and has shown to do so on many, many occasions. Such statements as yours don’t help anyone.

Maybe A.net doesn’t the the feedback you’d like most, but that says more about you than A.net.

Uh-huh. Santa is not real also. Im sorry.

Not sure if you agree with me or not. The facts are the facts, A.net listens to the players and implements stuff that’s asked. Not everything, they’re only human, unlike Santa.

Vayne.8563:

MrRuin.9740:

Vayne.8563:

See I don’t think so. I think it’s still on a moderate progression path…and they intend to stay that way..that is the gear progression is going to be relatively minor stat-wise compared to other games. You won’t need the gear to run dungeons.

That’s my prediction anyway.

Really? Its still the same thing though. If they add another gear after Ascended, say, with another ‘minor’ stat boost of 10%, then another tier after that…..its still vertical and will still divide players as the stat difference from exotic to whatever the current tier may be gets larger and larger. Just because they’re doing it in smaller increments doesn’t mean it’s not there or gets to be called something else.
Its like your power company throwing a power rate increases at you – suddenly hike the bill by $200 in one shot or by increasing the bill by $10 over time so they can claim its better than the other company who does it in one shot.

Unless the older stuff becomes so easy to get that everyone has it…which is doable.

Everyone sees vertical progression and they think full on gear treadmill…cause that’s how everyone else has done it.

If you guys can’t see the difference between this and other MMOs, I’m not really sure what else I can say about it.

This is what I originally thought ANet was going to do. Let grinders get the gear early and then open up more paths for the rest of us. But this isn’t what they’ve done.

Instead, they’ve used Ascended gear as a carrot to get people to do stuff they don’t otherwise want to do. You can see all ascended gear since rings as an effort to spread people throughout the world (when they obviously don’t want to).

First dailies were suppose to spread people around the world, but people just completed them other ways or hung out in the appropriate 1-15 zones for a quick fix. The mid level zones were desolate. Now with the ore and wood requirements you have to go into the mid level zones (or someone does).

I don’t think this is going to change. If anything armor will reinforce this.

TooBz.3065:

Vayne.8563:

MrRuin.9740:

Vayne.8563:

See I don’t think so. I think it’s still on a moderate progression path…and they intend to stay that way..that is the gear progression is going to be relatively minor stat-wise compared to other games. You won’t need the gear to run dungeons.

That’s my prediction anyway.

Really? Its still the same thing though. If they add another gear after Ascended, say, with another ‘minor’ stat boost of 10%, then another tier after that…..its still vertical and will still divide players as the stat difference from exotic to whatever the current tier may be gets larger and larger. Just because they’re doing it in smaller increments doesn’t mean it’s not there or gets to be called something else.
Its like your power company throwing a power rate increases at you – suddenly hike the bill by $200 in one shot or by increasing the bill by $10 over time so they can claim its better than the other company who does it in one shot.

Unless the older stuff becomes so easy to get that everyone has it…which is doable.

Everyone sees vertical progression and they think full on gear treadmill…cause that’s how everyone else has done it.

If you guys can’t see the difference between this and other MMOs, I’m not really sure what else I can say about it.

This is what I originally thought ANet was going to do. Let grinders get the gear early and then open up more paths for the rest of us. But this isn’t what they’ve done.

Instead, they’ve used Ascended gear as a carrot to get people to do stuff they don’t otherwise want to do. You can see all ascended gear since rings as an effort to spread people throughout the world (when they obviously don’t want to).

First dailies were suppose to spread people around the world, but people just completed them other ways or hung out in the appropriate 1-15 zones for a quick fix. The mid level zones were desolate. Now with the ore and wood requirements you have to go into the mid level zones (or someone does).

I don’t think this is going to change. If anything armor will reinforce this.

I’m not sure what you think isn’t changing. They’re doing exactly what I thought they’d do.

First they come out with ascended rings and stuff that only fractal runners could get. Then they made them so you could get them with dailies and such. Anyone who cared about that stuff, should have had it by now, surely. Rings and amulets are pretty easy to get.

Which brings us now to weapons. Sure they’re hard to get. They’re like rings when they first came out. It’s like some people spent a couple of grand on a VCR and a few years later everyone could afford them.

So Anet comes out with these weapons and makes them hard to get. Only the people who REALLY want them really care. But eventually, if they do come out with something else, they’ll make these much easier to get. It’s always going to be the older tier that’s easier to get.

The only trick is to make it so you can always do the content with the older tier (which you can).

As long as that remains, I think they’re handling it okay.

To be sure, I’d personally prefer a game with only cosmetic progression, but that ship has sailed. To be precise it sailed last November.

I have enough ascended rings at the moment for my next three or four 80s. I get earrings from doing guild missions. This stuff really isn’t that hard to get.

But the weapons are. As long as I don’t need them…I don’t care…and why should I? So I can have a BIS weapon? So I can save two minutes or a 12 minute dungeon run?

It’s very much like people who have to buy the absolutely top of the line computer. They pay a lot more and six months later it’s 30% cheaper.

I can wait the six months.

Very well said ProxyDamage.

Your journey has parallels to all of my current group of gamer friends that bought this game together and I agree with pretty much everything that you said.

We are not logging in nearly as often as we used to. The no subscription fee helps with that a lot. Sometimes I wonder what will be the breaking point of our commitment to this game.

Vayne.8563:

I’m not sure what you think isn’t changing. They’re doing exactly what I thought they’d do.

First they come out with ascended rings and stuff that only fractal runners could get. Then they made them so you could get them with dailies and such. Anyone who cared about that stuff, should have had it by now, surely. Rings and amulets are pretty easy to get.

Which brings us now to weapons. Sure they’re hard to get. They’re like rings when they first came out. It’s like some people spent a couple of grand on a VCR and a few years later everyone could afford them.

So Anet comes out with these weapons and makes them hard to get. Only the people who REALLY want them really care. But eventually, if they do come out with something else, they’ll make these much easier to get. It’s always going to be the older tier that’s easier to get.

The only trick is to make it so you can always do the content with the older tier (which you can).

As long as that remains, I think they’re handling it okay.

To be sure, I’d personally prefer a game with only cosmetic progression, but that ship has sailed. To be precise it sailed last November.

I have enough ascended rings at the moment for my next three or four 80s. I get earrings from doing guild missions. This stuff really isn’t that hard to get.

But the weapons are. As long as I don’t need them…I don’t care…and why should I? So I can have a BIS weapon? So I can save two minutes or a 12 minute dungeon run?

It’s very much like people who have to buy the absolutely top of the line computer. They pay a lot more and six months later it’s 30% cheaper.

I can wait the six months.

OK. I thought they’d make old ascended gear as easy to get as the old exotics. That hasn’t happened and I don’t think it ever will. They will keep BIS gear as a means to get players to do things they would not have otherwise done.

Vayne.8563:

To be sure, I’d personally prefer a game with only cosmetic progression, but that ship has sailed. To be precise it sailed last November.

And where was Ellen Kiel when we really needed her?

marnick.4305:

A.net takes feedback very seriously and has shown to do so on many, many occasions. Such statements as yours don’t help anyone.

Please list them. If there were as many as you say it should be easy to do for you … and humorous for the rest of us.

Vayne.8563:

TooBz.3065:

Vayne.8563:

MrRuin.9740:

Vayne.8563:

See I don’t think so. I think it’s still on a moderate progression path…and they intend to stay that way..that is the gear progression is going to be relatively minor stat-wise compared to other games. You won’t need the gear to run dungeons.

That’s my prediction anyway.

Really? Its still the same thing though. If they add another gear after Ascended, say, with another ‘minor’ stat boost of 10%, then another tier after that…..its still vertical and will still divide players as the stat difference from exotic to whatever the current tier may be gets larger and larger. Just because they’re doing it in smaller increments doesn’t mean it’s not there or gets to be called something else.
Its like your power company throwing a power rate increases at you – suddenly hike the bill by $200 in one shot or by increasing the bill by $10 over time so they can claim its better than the other company who does it in one shot.

Unless the older stuff becomes so easy to get that everyone has it…which is doable.

Everyone sees vertical progression and they think full on gear treadmill…cause that’s how everyone else has done it.

If you guys can’t see the difference between this and other MMOs, I’m not really sure what else I can say about it.

This is what I originally thought ANet was going to do. Let grinders get the gear early and then open up more paths for the rest of us. But this isn’t what they’ve done.

Instead, they’ve used Ascended gear as a carrot to get people to do stuff they don’t otherwise want to do. You can see all ascended gear since rings as an effort to spread people throughout the world (when they obviously don’t want to).

First dailies were suppose to spread people around the world, but people just completed them other ways or hung out in the appropriate 1-15 zones for a quick fix. The mid level zones were desolate. Now with the ore and wood requirements you have to go into the mid level zones (or someone does).

I don’t think this is going to change. If anything armor will reinforce this.

I’m not sure what you think isn’t changing. They’re doing exactly what I thought they’d do.

First they come out with ascended rings and stuff that only fractal runners could get. Then they made them so you could get them with dailies and such. Anyone who cared about that stuff, should have had it by now, surely. Rings and amulets are pretty easy to get.

Which brings us now to weapons. Sure they’re hard to get. They’re like rings when they first came out. It’s like some people spent a couple of grand on a VCR and a few years later everyone could afford them.

So Anet comes out with these weapons and makes them hard to get. Only the people who REALLY want them really care. But eventually, if they do come out with something else, they’ll make these much easier to get. It’s always going to be the older tier that’s easier to get.

The only trick is to make it so you can always do the content with the older tier (which you can).

As long as that remains, I think they’re handling it okay.

To be sure, I’d personally prefer a game with only cosmetic progression, but that ship has sailed. To be precise it sailed last November.

I have enough ascended rings at the moment for my next three or four 80s. I get earrings from doing guild missions. This stuff really isn’t that hard to get.

But the weapons are. As long as I don’t need them…I don’t care…and why should I? So I can have a BIS weapon? So I can save two minutes or a 12 minute dungeon run?

It’s very much like people who have to buy the absolutely top of the line computer. They pay a lot more and six months later it’s 30% cheaper.

I can wait the six months.

Guess you don’t play WvW much, or if you do you simply hide in the zerg. It won’t be long that if you want to stay alive outside of a large group you will need that better gear. Players in other threads have done the math … the difference is pretty significant.

This is the best post I’ve ever read on this forum. ProxyDamage, I really hope ANet grabs that achievement and takes notes. I, for one, thank you for taking the time to write this message, I wholeheartedly second everything you said. I too feel my enthusiasm with GW2 diminishing and I would like for them to address the issues the games has. I was on the verge of quitting, I uninstalled the game for the first time since I bought it just a few days ago and then reinstalled it because… well, I realised I don’t want to quit GW2, I want it fixed. And by this time I don’t even want ANet to fix everything, I would settle for only part of the problems solved.

There’s always this talk about “core gamers” and I believed these were the people drawn by the ideas expressed in the Manifesto. Now, considering the amount of MMOs on the market – and more to come – there probably won’t be a “WoW killer”, where millions upon millions of people fill the coffers of a single company. A lot of people will always be drawn to what’s new. Right now that’s FF14, in a couple of months that will be Wildstar and the next year it will be TESO. So I guess if those people leave then, in the long run, you’re left with the “core audience”. Thus I wonder, if the core audience is those people that responded to the manifesto, then why not please them?

I wonder if this is where the problem lies actually and ANet needs more people to buy the game because the existing players can go by not further contributing to the company’s earnings? Of course, there can’t be a single reason for the shift in ANet’s mentality (at least that’s how I perceive it) but I, for one, can’t figure out a clear answer. And truth be told, I shouldn’t. It’s not my business to mind the inner workings of the company, my job is to play and pay for the product that has been advertised in the manifesto.

A great and brutal summary of some of my own feelings towards this game. At the very least it’s nice to hear it with so many people trying to brush off the problems as if they don’t even exist.

Quite honestly I still miss my WoW trial. I know I’d have to put up with all the same crap and more and even worse even if I had the money to waste on subscription and leveling there, but just like in GW2, you can still play against type – you can have fun just running around and doing whatever. Annoying, sure, but you can just ignore the grind and the dumb parts if you like. You shouldn’t have to. You really… Shouldn’t have to…

You shouldn’t have to invent your own game inside another game to have fun. Seriously.

Draco.2806:

A great and brutal summary of some of my own feelings towards this game.

Quite honestly I still miss my WoW trial. I know I’d have to put up with all the same crap and more and even worse even if I had the money to waste on subscription and leveling there, but just like in GW2, you can still play against type – you can have fun just running around and doing whatever. Annoying, sure, but you can just ignore the grind and the dumb parts if you like. You shouldn’t have to. You really… Shouldn’t have to…

You shouldn’t have to invent your own game inside another game to have fun. Seriously.

But you want the people who love chasing achievements and don’t like running around zones having fun your way to make their own game and make more challenging stuff and make more achievements to go after. Or the people who want to work to better gear, they should make their game.

Sure no one should have to do anything in any MMO to have fun…but since everyone’s definition of what is fun is different and since there are people having fun with the new content, I’m not sure what your point is.

If they did it your way, other people would have to “invent their own games inside this game” to have fun.

…I have no idea what you just said.

Draco.2806:

…I have no idea what you just said.

You basically said you had to ignore things you don’t like and make your own game inside the game to have fun. And no one should have to do that.

But there are things added for other player’s play styles that they are enjoying, even getting ascended gear, because some people like crafting and crafting before had no meaning.

Prior to this it was THOSE people who had to make their own game to enjoy it. You’re making it sound like no one should have to. If they made the perfect game for you, I guarantee you someone would feel they had to play a different game to enjoy it. We all enjoy different things. That’s just how it works.

Ah. Thanks.

I have no problem with having different things for different people to do in the game. In fact, it’s kittening amazing. It was one of the big and juicy promises prior to release. That’s how it should be done.

The alternative is forcing every player to do a bunch of things they don’t necessarily want or aren’t even any fun – and that’s where the game is now, and where it’s heading.

WoW, for example, has its famously horrible leveling grind. You can argue you “don’t have to do it” – and you really don’t, just go ahead and run around the starter zones – but it’s a futile argument because of the overall design. GW2 now falls victim to the same fallacy (and the same argument to defend it) – and the way you acquire Ascended gear is easily the most egregious example… so far.

It’s disappointing. It’s a broken promise.

Draco.2806:

Ah. Thanks.

I have no problem with having different things for different people to do in the game. In fact, it’s kittening amazing. It was one of the big and juicy promises prior to release. That’s how it should be done.

The alternative is forcing every player to do a bunch of things they don’t necessarily want or aren’t even any fun – and that’s where the game is now, and where it’s heading.

WoW, for example, has its famously horrible leveling grind. You can argue you “don’t have to do it” – and you really don’t, just go ahead and run around the starter zones – but it’s a futile argument because of the overall design. GW2 now falls victim to the same fallacy (and the same argument to defend it) – and the way you acquire Ascended gear is easily the most egregious example… so far.

It’s disappointing. It’s a broken promise.

I almost agree. I’d certainly agree if people would stop using the word promise. Statements are not promises

I remember reading a blog post where Anet told everyone that they experiment, try things and sometimes throw out entire systems if they seem not to be working. This means everything they do is actually up for grabs. What they were doing didn’t seem to be working, so they made a change.

I’m not sure promise is the right word, and as long as people keep using it, I’ll have to say that a statement is not a promise.

One of the most common complaints about the game is that the cosmetic progression is a bust and I can’t help but wholeheartedly agree with that assessment. The transmutation system needs to be sloped and replaced by a proper wardrobe system in which you unlock skins. My bank is filled with cosmetic items I’ll never get to use due to the sheer hassle of it all and I dare to wager that I’m not alone in that.