Guild Wars 2

My guild’s leader was hit by the recent ban wave. Because he can no longer access his account, he cannot pass on leadership to anyone else.

I sent a ticket to ANet asking for them to either pass leadership to someone else, or temporarily unban my guild leader to allow him to do this himself. They have said they have no ability to assist on this issue (and will not consider a temporary unbanning), which leaves our several hundred member guild effectively crippled.

Our guild was formed within minutes of the beginning of headstart. We have researched everything you could spend influence on, and the guild carries the name of our gaming community (Unrepentant). While one could just say “make a new guild”, that’s a rather unpalatable solution – to lose thousands of hours of influence gains, our name and tag, and whatever reputation we have on our server simply because ArenaNet did not think through the consequences of their actions.

They meant well with this latest action, but the fact that they would throw an entire guild under the bus to punish one person, and have absolutely no means to transfer guild leadership is frankly mind boggling.

My advice to those guilds still playing is to ensure that you have more than one person occupying the top slot in your leadership structure, or ensure a separate rank is created that has all the functionality of the leadership spot. If your guild leader gets banned, goes MIA, or otherwise disappears, you will be left unable to fully manage your guild.

Guess you learned your lesson to have a “Co Leader” or Officer that has similar privileges!

They are too busy releasing new Gem related content.

(Not a troll I’m serious, quit releasing monthly content while the game is so new and has so much you need to add)

Wow, that is pretty harsh. They said they don’t have the ability to promote members of a guild? Surprising.

So, you leader was banned likely rightfully, and the guild is risking to fall apart?
Sounds fair to me. When a leader is cheating, All the fruits of his labor should be confiscated after he/she has been banned.

Now, that’s what i call fair.

Plus, I thought that being in a guild would be all about the people, not the benefits

Oh well, Im sorry for you and your guild but all you can really do is move on. Seems like all the people banned (one was a friend) will not be unbanned so there is nothing either you or I can do.

“whatever reputation we have on our server simply because ArenaNet did not think through the consequences of their actions.”

Maybe your guild leader should have thought about the consequences of exploiting?

May your guild forever be known as the one led by an exploiter.

Did anyone who bought gems with cash get banned?

Ath.2531:

So, you leader was banned likely rightfully, and the guild is risking to fall apart?
Sounds fair to me. When a leader is cheating, All the fruits of his labor should be confiscated after he/she has been banned.

Now, that’s what i call fair.

Plus, I thought that being in a guild would be all about the people, not the benefits

That’s a pretty stupid and naive point of view. So if the president of your company is caught committing some kind of fraud, you’re happy about losing your job because of something he did?

Try thinking before you make idiotic statements.

oh stop being mean to OP - he didn’t spoit, the leader did and as such, the entire guild should not have to suffer. *rolls eyes*

Hickeroar.9734:

Ath.2531:

So, you leader was banned likely rightfully, and the guild is risking to fall apart?
Sounds fair to me. When a leader is cheating, All the fruits of his labor should be confiscated after he/she has been banned.

Now, that’s what i call fair.

Plus, I thought that being in a guild would be all about the people, not the benefits

That’s a pretty stupid and naive point of view. So if the president of your company is caught committing some kind of fraud, you’re happy about losing your job because of something he did?

Try thinking before you make idiotic statements.

The ’ole tried and true comparrison to real world possibilities is never a surprise but never even remotely comparable under any circumstance.

If you argue that it is, you need some serious help

This is a difficult situation. But I honestly don’t understand why “several hundret” members of your guild would put all power in the hand of one leader.

Rebuild your guild, call it “Repentant”, make several co-leaders and your guild members and your guilds reputation might be ok again.

Hickeroar.9734:

Ath.2531:

So, you leader was banned likely rightfully, and the guild is risking to fall apart?
Sounds fair to me. When a leader is cheating, All the fruits of his labor should be confiscated after he/she has been banned.

Now, that’s what i call fair.

Plus, I thought that being in a guild would be all about the people, not the benefits

That’s a pretty stupid and naive point of view. So if the president of your company is caught committing some kind of fraud, you’re happy about losing your job because of something he did?

Try thinking before you make idiotic statements.

Oh, he’d be the first to come out wailing and moaning, many people just like to wallow in the misfortune of others. This had 0 to do with other members of the guild, Anet doesnt want to provide adequate CS to help those other members of the guild that did NOT use the exploit.

If Guild Wars 2 is like Guild Wars 1, then in a month, the game will automatically hand over leadership to the next highest rank/most senior officer, if your guild leader doesn’t log in.

time to find a new or form a new guild. simple solution.

Masaki.2153:

Hickeroar.9734:

Ath.2531:

So, you leader was banned likely rightfully, and the guild is risking to fall apart?
Sounds fair to me. When a leader is cheating, All the fruits of his labor should be confiscated after he/she has been banned.

Now, that’s what i call fair.

Plus, I thought that being in a guild would be all about the people, not the benefits

That’s a pretty stupid and naive point of view. So if the president of your company is caught committing some kind of fraud, you’re happy about losing your job because of something he did?

Try thinking before you make idiotic statements.

The ’ole tried and true comparrison to real world possibilities is never a surprise but never even remotely comparable under any circumstance.

If you argue that it is, you need some serious help

Ah the ’ole tried and true mental problems comeback, classic.

Ath.2531:

So, you leader was banned likely rightfully, and the guild is risking to fall apart?
Sounds fair to me. When a leader is cheating, All the fruits of his labor should be confiscated after he/she has been banned.

Now, that’s what i call fair.

Plus, I thought that being in a guild would be all about the people, not the benefits

It wasn’t the guild leaders labor that made the guild what it is the members.

Your very ignorant to say the least.

Masaki.2153:

Hickeroar.9734:

Ath.2531:

So, you leader was banned likely rightfully, and the guild is risking to fall apart?
Sounds fair to me. When a leader is cheating, All the fruits of his labor should be confiscated after he/she has been banned.

Now, that’s what i call fair.

Plus, I thought that being in a guild would be all about the people, not the benefits

That’s a pretty stupid and naive point of view. So if the president of your company is caught committing some kind of fraud, you’re happy about losing your job because of something he did?

Try thinking before you make idiotic statements.

The ’ole tried and true comparrison to real world possibilities is never a surprise but never even remotely comparable under any circumstance.

If you argue that it is, you need some serious help

he made a general statement that subordinates of leaders should be punished for the actions of the leaders. I made a general response. Of course it’s comparable. Saying it’s not doesn’t make it any less so.

No matter what the guild leader did, I personally don’t feel as though it is fair to punish all the members/underlings.
GW2 should have a means of leadership transfer in case of an account being banned, deleted, abandoned, etc.
It is about the people and the time they have put into their guild, and not about one single player bringing a guild to its knees for their behavior.
I understand being angry with exploiters but punishing innocents for it… The guild members are innocent or they would have been banned too. Guilt by association should not apply in this case.

I would simply suggest that the active members each create a support ticket and hopefully someone in charge can help you all out with a transition.

Infernia.9847:

No matter what the guild leader did, I personally don’t feel as though it is fair to punish all the members/underlings.
GW2 should have a means of leadership transfer in case of an account being banned, deleted, abandoned, etc.
It is about the people and the time they have put into their guild, and not about one single player bringing a guild to its knees for their behavior.
I understand being angry with exploiters but punishing innocents for it… The guild members are innocent or they would have been banned too. Guilt by association should not apply in this case.

I would simply suggest that the active members each create a support ticket and hopefully someone in charge can help you all out with a transition.

IMHO, what should happen in this case is that every member of their “hundreds large” guild should put in a support request about it. This knee-jerk decision is unconscionable.

Hundreds of members will make short work of the essential guild upgrades. Step up, take the problem by the kittens, announce the new name, leadership structure and move date.

Don’t wait, repent today!

Grumpdogg.6910:

Hundreds of members will make short work of the essential guild upgrades. Step up, take the problem by the kittens, announce the new name, leadership structure and move date.

Don’t wait, repent today!

Barring the -needed- ANet reversal, this is a great plan.

I’ve been through your situation before in a few MMOs. It’s very frustrating, that because your leader is banned/quits the game, it punishes every other member for his/her mistake.

I don’t think it’s fair Anet just pushed this case to the side and lazily responded with “can’t do anything about it”.

Turgut.4397:

I’ve been through your situation before in a few MMOs. It’s very frustrating, that because your leader is banned/quits the game, it punishes every other member for his/her mistake.

I don’t think it’s fair Anet just pushed this case to the side and lazily responded with “can’t do anything about it”.

This problem hasn’t just been with this banning. A lot of guilds have this issue. They said that they’re looking in to it before, especially given that you can’t ‘demote’ a guild leader, which can lead to issues.

It’s an unfortunate issue, but what would you suggest for them to do?

Sorry to hear that, but your guild leader got what he deserved if he was exploiting. I hope Arena Net attempts to help your guild with the transfer of leadership though, even though the guild SHOULD of had a second in command that could take over easily.

EndlessDreamer.6780:

Turgut.4397:

I’ve been through your situation before in a few MMOs. It’s very frustrating, that because your leader is banned/quits the game, it punishes every other member for his/her mistake.

I don’t think it’s fair Anet just pushed this case to the side and lazily responded with “can’t do anything about it”.

This problem hasn’t just been with this banning. A lot of guilds have this issue. They said that they’re looking in to it before, especially given that you can’t ‘demote’ a guild leader, which can lead to issues.

It’s an unfortunate issue, but what would you suggest for them to do?

Make all the officers, equal-rank leaders in the guild. At that point you can at least work it out amongst yourselves.

somebody already suggested this, I’m going to suggest it again.
1. Have a guild meeting and decide who stops representing and creates a new guild
2. Move all the people to the new guild
3. Having in mind that you’re a large active guild getting the upgrades back will take weeks not months.

azurrei.5691:

Sorry to hear that, but your guild leader got what he deserved if he was exploiting. I hope Arena Net attempts to help your guild with the transfer of leadership though, even though the guild SHOULD of had a second in command that could take over easily.

If the whole “exploiting” thing was actually “exploiting,” I’d agree with you. They never should have banned these people in the first place.

However, even if it WAS exploiting, they still shouldn’t screw over several hundred people because of the actions of ONE.

Agreed with Hickeroar – but spam the phuck out of them until they give in and give the help that they are HERE TO GIVE. I’m really getting sick of this lazy, apathic attitude from this company – just as bad as EA/Bioware debacle….

mavet.3047:

Agreed with Hickeroar – but spam the phuck out of them until they give in and give the help that they are HERE TO GIVE. I’m really getting sick of this lazy, apathic attitude from this company – just as bad as EA/Bioware debacle….

You better have a lot of email accounts set up, they give warnings that they’ll stop responding to your emails after the 5th or so one :P

Lunar Sunset.8742:

mavet.3047:

Agreed with Hickeroar – but spam the phuck out of them until they give in and give the help that they are HERE TO GIVE. I’m really getting sick of this lazy, apathic attitude from this company – just as bad as EA/Bioware debacle….

You better have a lot of email accounts set up, they give warnings that they’ll stop responding to your emails after the 5th or so one :P

I think we meant having each guild member put in their own, single request, appealing for ANet to do what’s right. It’s easy to lose sight of the hundreds of people you’re affecting when you’re just coldly dropping the hammer from the top.

Honestly, look at yourselves. How in God’s green earth is it “fair” to penalise hundreds of people for the failings of one individual? They’re disappointed human beings, not “fruits of labor” that belonged to some guy.

This community is a mindbogglingly degenerate cesspit that surpasses even the WoW Community forums with its wanton nastiness. Some of you would actually rather mindlessly lick a company’s boots than have some sympathy for your fellow player. What a disgrace.

This along with ArenaNet’s recent spree of bans for making money off crafting (crafting is supposed to be profitless then I guess? lolwut) has really been the final nail in the coffin. I’m out.

On one hand, a person with a lot of responsibilities considers these things when deciding to exploit. ie the expression “I have kids, I can’t take that risk”. Think of guildies as the leader’s kids.

But the guildies shouldn’t be punished. I think Anet would agree if they had unlimited time to fix things. I can’t see it being a huge chore to make someone else a leader and hope they will squeeze it in.

Freohr.7905:

Honestly, look at yourselves. How in God’s green earth is it “fair” to penalise hundreds of people for the failings of one individual? They’re disappointed human beings, not “fruits of labor” that belonged to some guy.

This community is a mindbogglingly degenerate cesspit that surpasses even the WoW Community forums with its wanton nastiness. Some of you would actually rather mindlessly lick a company’s boots than have some sympathy for your fellow player. What a disgrace.

This along with ArenaNet’s recent spree of bans for making money off crafting (crafting is supposed to be profitless then I guess? lolwut) has really been the final nail in the coffin. I’m out.

They want to get the title legendary fanboi, but seriously arenanet will no way in hell give this guys account back to demote himself, they just don’t work that way. Either he gets his account back or the guild suffers/dies because of it. Even though I remember a dev saying that people should “get it while it’s hot” with these trinkets yielding a profit before the update that fixed this so called exploit. We’re lucky that is Anet’s support, NCsoft is much worse.

Part of me wonders if you appealed a ban and groveled, begging for forgiveness and swearing never to do it again….if they’d unban you. Assuming it was your first offense, I mean.

Hickeroar.9734:

Part of me wonders if you appealed a ban and groveled, begging for forgiveness and swearing never to do it again….if they’d unban you. Assuming it was your first offense, I mean.

No.

It’s a game. The people just playing with their friends in the guild shouldn’t have to have their game experience suffer because the leader was a cheating tool. I get the whole “choose wisely who you follow” stuff, but in the end….it’s just a game.

Hickeroar.9734:

Ath.2531:

So, you leader was banned likely rightfully, and the guild is risking to fall apart?
Sounds fair to me. When a leader is cheating, All the fruits of his labor should be confiscated after he/she has been banned.

Now, that’s what i call fair.

Plus, I thought that being in a guild would be all about the people, not the benefits

That’s a pretty stupid and naive point of view. So if the president of your company is caught committing some kind of fraud, you’re happy about losing your job because of something he did?

Try thinking before you make idiotic statements.

Actually, this is exactly what happens.

If the president of a company is falsifying tax documents and such for a business and gets closed down by the federal government as a result, do you seriously think the government sits down and says “well, since we’re closing the company, we need to hire every one of the employees?”

Do you really think when a company goes bankrupt the employees are able to keep working at the (now closed) company?

Oh, I get your point now. What you meant is the opposite of what you said. What you meant is “this is what happens in real-life but it shouldn’t happen in games too because games aren’t real!”

Why does an answer for a silly situation in a game have to be some life lesson and live with it? We are talking innocent people I have to assume that were affected by one persons actions. Why not just make someone else the leader and move on? Why create a rift and drama? Why can’t Customer Service serve players in their time of need and just be done with it? K.I.S.S.

Hickeroar.9734:

azurrei.5691:

Sorry to hear that, but your guild leader got what he deserved if he was exploiting. I hope Arena Net attempts to help your guild with the transfer of leadership though, even though the guild SHOULD of had a second in command that could take over easily.

If the whole “exploiting” thing was actually “exploiting,” I’d agree with you. They never should have banned these people in the first place.

However, even if it WAS exploiting, they still shouldn’t screw over several hundred people because of the actions of ONE.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Bans-for-Snowflake-Jewelry-are-unfair/first#post1132023

I’ve got a John Smith quote too, but I can’t find the original thread so I’m not going to post an external link

it was an exploit, deal with it

Yes, I agree as I stated above that Arena Net should help affected guild(s) transfer ownership after logs show that the offending guild master didn’t transfer ill gotten gains or materials to the guild stash, of course.

But this is a video game, Anet isn’t losing anything by letting the people take over the guild after the leader gets banned. This is a video game not the real world, so your statement doesn’t really matter in this situation.

raptorak.8250:

If the president of a company is falsifying tax documents and such for a business and gets closed down by the federal government as a result

Maybe 20 years ago, but any company of size, does that really even happen anymore? I would guess they would lawyer up, call a 1800 # and ultimately be on TV add. “I owed the IRS 150K but after talking to William Hammerstein he settled with the IRS for $18. Thanks William Hammerstein!”

raptorak.8250:

Hickeroar.9734:

Ath.2531:

So, you leader was banned likely rightfully, and the guild is risking to fall apart?
Sounds fair to me. When a leader is cheating, All the fruits of his labor should be confiscated after he/she has been banned.

Now, that’s what i call fair.

Plus, I thought that being in a guild would be all about the people, not the benefits

That’s a pretty stupid and naive point of view. So if the president of your company is caught committing some kind of fraud, you’re happy about losing your job because of something he did?

Try thinking before you make idiotic statements.

Actually, this is exactly what happens.

If the president of a company is falsifying tax documents and such for a business and gets closed down by the federal government as a result, do you seriously think the government sits down and says “well, since we’re closing the company, we need to hire every one of the employees?”

Do you really think when a company goes bankrupt the employees are able to keep working at the (now closed) company?

Oh, I get your point now. What you meant is the opposite of what you said. What you meant is “this is what happens in real-life but it shouldn’t happen in games too because games aren’t real!”

When the heck does that happen? President/CEO steps down, maybe goes to jail, the board appoints a new one. The government sets up a payment plan, or forgives the debt. They arent going to get the owed taxes or any future taxes from a closed company, It’s in the government’s best interest financially, to work with the affected company.

raptorak.8250:

Actually, this is exactly what happens.

If the president of a company is falsifying tax documents and such for a business and gets closed down by the federal government as a result, do you seriously think the government sits down and says “well, since we’re closing the company, we need to hire every one of the employees?”

Do you really think when a company goes bankrupt the employees are able to keep working at the (now closed) company?

Apparently you don’t live in the US.

Because otherwise you would never claim that this is how companies are dealt with in real life. All I have to do is point out the fact that several major US banks, several retail store chains (like K-Mart), as well as the entire US auto industry, would be bankrupt and closed right now if what you say is true.

But I guess you’ve never heard of the concept of reorganizing under bankruptcy.

A company is not automatically closed if the company president is jailed for wrongdoing. In fact, nowadays, typically the board of that company just picks a new president, the company goes through bankruptcy filings, and the company keeps running.

GW2’s guilds have no way to do that, and that is a problem that needs to be addressed.

Dao Jones.6720:

My guild’s leader was hit by the recent ban wave. Because he can no longer access his account, he cannot pass on leadership to anyone else.

I sent a ticket to ANet asking for them to either pass leadership to someone else, or temporarily unban my guild leader to allow him to do this himself. They have said they have no ability to assist on this issue (and will not consider a temporary unbanning), which leaves our several hundred member guild effectively crippled.

Our guild was formed within minutes of the beginning of headstart. We have researched everything you could spend influence on, and the guild carries the name of our gaming community (Unrepentant). While one could just say “make a new guild”, that’s a rather unpalatable solution – to lose thousands of hours of influence gains, our name and tag, and whatever reputation we have on our server simply because ArenaNet did not think through the consequences of their actions.

They meant well with this latest action, but the fact that they would throw an entire guild under the bus to punish one person, and have absolutely no means to transfer guild leadership is frankly mind boggling.

My advice to those guilds still playing is to ensure that you have more than one person occupying the top slot in your leadership structure, or ensure a separate rank is created that has all the functionality of the leadership spot. If your guild leader gets banned, goes MIA, or otherwise disappears, you will be left unable to fully manage your guild.

Dao Jones I would suggest you either give up this argument or take the fighting to them. As it is quite apparent these guys have no respect for their playerbase. Since falling into NCsofts palms they only care about how to make a quick buck selling sub par content. Also anyone who agrees that an entire guild should pay for the actions of one person is no better than Anet at being some of the biggest kittens on the planet. You all fit the “White Knight” definition perfectly. Now stop kissing up to Anet in the hopes they will throw you a bone cause it will never happen.

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