Just getting these out there so we know we are all in agreement:
1) Conditions seem a bit strong
2) World bosses are currently too easy
3) There are some bugged skills and traits
4) There are some overpowered builds
We won’t fix it all at once but these are four large topics we are talking about. In the meantime keep the feedback and bug reports coming, and I guess farm up some world bosses. We are dedicating time towards these issues and are intending to resolve them as quickly as possible. As we have said before, the live environment differs too greatly from anything we can reliably simulate internally so big changes like today’s build will cause things to sometimes change at an alarming rateTM.
Thanks for your patience,
Jon
PLEASE dont nerf necros conditions that they apply themselves, necros are doing a lot in terms of boon corruption and condition transfer but it doesnt affect pve that much so if you nerf the conditions that we apply ourselves you are dooming us to power builds….. again…. and even now conditions that we apply feel week when compared to our power builds.
I logged out one attuned to lightning and one to water, nice try though. I don’t use earth except on my staff ele who is level 80.
Weapons next? D/D and S/F which.. I dunno, don’t scream “earth weapons” to me. Staff ele at 80 had Earth unlocked too but being 80, she could just get everything.
I’m just frustrated. None of my other toons got an undesirable trait line so I’m not understanding this.
~Tarnished Coast Pride~
Forever known as “that slow guardian who can’t jump worth crap”.
so what you mean is, necro nerf again? because why not…
In this case it’s mostly other classes. Necro just has even more powerful transfers now. So there are classes that are basically killing themselves with their overpowered condition setups because they can’t defend against it themselves. For the most part it is Burning, which Necro can hardly leverage – but they can certainly help, say, Engineers cover themselves in their own ridiculous burst stacks of it.
Just checked, and my level 48 Ele is sitting on Fire and Water, again no Earth. Granted I would have preferred Arcane over water for elemental attunement, but that’s easily rectified by going out and grabbing some Hero Points. That is, if I used her as anything other than a jeweler
ETA: I main condi ranger, and for the first time today his damage felt on-par with all the zerkers in my party. Please be careful how you nerf conditions for ranger, considering many of the actual condition dealing skills on axe and torch already have a significant cooldown.
It’s the lack of balancing in consideration of the stats boost that is the problem.
Seriously, necro Lich form auto attack now is 7k against a light class with celestial amulet, it needed to be nerfed in accordance to the new stats.
Also, because of how that condi and power stuff favors heavy classes d/d elementalists will have only 1 viable build to bunker into just to survive. And why did you nerf d/d ele mobility?
Other things are really good, staff ele is much more viable in WvW.
Yeah sure, because Lich didn’t just eat another 5 second nerf so it is now only 15 seconds with 1 pulsing stack of stab which means most classes can CC / block / invuln /escape /hide to break LoS the complete Lich transformation without any major problems.
They can buff your mobility and stability without having you 2-shot people with your auto-attack.
Only that they have refused to buff anything about the Necromancer for so long it is not even funny anymore. Even this patch, while I’ll admit we got some pretty strong tools, we got hit with the nerfbat quite a few times (including from the early trait preview to the new trait preview to live, and from pre-patch to post-patch). Like, they literally dumpstered the trait that is new axetraining literally within the last week, and the pretty awesome Lingering Curse they showed us in the first preview was completely made rubbish aswell.
Besides, it’s not like every single other class can do 7k+ DPS without even using an elite, and except #1 and maybe 1 other skill all of Lich forms skills are terrible.
Not to mention it is an extremely slow projectile which can be reflected and counterplayed by every single class and build in pvp…
so what you mean is, necro nerf again? because why not…
In this case it’s mostly other classes. Necro just has even more powerful transfers now. So there are classes that are basically killing themselves with their overpowered condition setups because they can’t defend against it themselves. For the most part it is Burning, which Necro can hardly leverage – but they can certainly help, say, Engineers cover themselves in their own ridiculous burst stacks of it.
Except that this has never stopped Anet from nerfing and refusing to buff Necros over and over again, not to mention even ackknowledge the glaring porblems necro has compared to other classes (no means to stop enemies from escaping/mobility and no scaling defenses for example).
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
Please, for a love of whatever of the GW God’s you choose…get a test server. It is just unacceptable to me personally to see an entire game get unbalanced and the community have to play the waiting game until things are corrected.
This happens, because as bright as the people balancing things are, they simply cannot predict what is going to happen in a mass environment with live players. Can run all the algorithms in the world and that won’t stop a few players from devising a way to totally ruin the game.
Also, I don’t think we should pin this on conditions being too strong. I think everything is too strong.
I understand that this would be helpful but in the absence of a test server, which is our current situation, we will do as much as we can as fast as we can. We made some changes today and more will be coming as the week goes on. After that our intention is to make balance and bug fix changes to this stuff every couple of weeks leading up to the release of HoT.
Also, not everything is too strong, just all forms of damage.
Please, for a love of whatever of the GW God’s you choose…get a test server. It is just unacceptable to me personally to see an entire game get unbalanced and the community have to play the waiting game until things are corrected.
This happens, because as bright as the people balancing things are, they simply cannot predict what is going to happen in a mass environment with live players. Can run all the algorithms in the world and that won’t stop a few players from devising a way to totally ruin the game.
Also, I don’t think we should pin this on conditions being too strong. I think everything is too strong.
I understand that this would be helpful but in the absence of a test server, which is our current situation, we will do as much as we can as fast as we can. We made some changes today and more will be coming as the week goes on. After that our intention is to make balance and bug fix changes to this stuff every couple of weeks leading up to the release of HoT.
Also, not everything is too strong, just all forms of damage.
Jon
No, in terms of conditions it is only burn damage. Bleed and poison damage is hella weak. Also, please note that the reason Necromancers do such high damage is not because their condition would be any good (they do less damage with a 20 second ramp up than an engineers with 4 second ramp up currently), but that the damage comes from transferring the insanely powerful burning/condition stacks that get applied to Necros by other classes back, and that is what is killing people.
You just need to compare numbers : Enginerr : 1 skill 12 stacks bleeding. Necro gets 2-4 max. And engi then has burning on crits and other ways that stack burning insanely fast… it ticks for 8k with a ramp up of a measly 4 seconds. Of course that will kill the engi if it gets send back at him.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
I like it. It is the first time conditions seems to work in PVE. Spvp is another thing. There is a ton of condition cleanse and the game become which of you will pop up his cleanse before the other.
I dont think its really all that bad, i mean the people who are whining are the ones the play builds that just soak up dmg all day, but now that people are actually doing decent dmg they are gonaa start complaining, anet if your gonna balance the changes, just be careful the slightest over-nerf could cause an uproar0-0
I also feel like the power damage is too high for the possible stats we can go into defense.
But that could just be condis being a problem and i just feel bursted down badly by them.
Retriever Iiat – Asura Engineer
Private retriever of runaway NPCs
Mistband[MIST] – PVP Training guild EU
I don’t think its burn that is too strong, but the amount of burn that some classes can do. That is what needs to be looked into.
Sorry, but if a purely damaging condition does more than 4 times than another purely damaging condition, then it is that conditions fault. And thats exactly what the relation between burn and bleeding is. I’d understand twice as much damage as bleeding, as bleeding generally lasts longer (which with the amount of condition cleanse there is makes it even worse) and is more readily avaiable (at least to most classes), but over four times? No, thats definitly way too strong.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
Please, for a love of whatever of the GW God’s you choose…get a test server. It is just unacceptable to me personally to see an entire game get unbalanced and the community have to play the waiting game until things are corrected.
This happens, because as bright as the people balancing things are, they simply cannot predict what is going to happen in a mass environment with live players. Can run all the algorithms in the world and that won’t stop a few players from devising a way to totally ruin the game.
Also, I don’t think we should pin this on conditions being too strong. I think everything is too strong.
I understand that this would be helpful but in the absence of a test server, which is our current situation, we will do as much as we can as fast as we can. We made some changes today and more will be coming as the week goes on. After that our intention is to make balance and bug fix changes to this stuff every couple of weeks leading up to the release of HoT.
Also, not everything is too strong, just all forms of damage.
Jon
Incidentally, test servers are defunct as well. People think they’d fix the problems with updates, but that is false for the vast majority of things. People are more concerned with figuring out how to take advantage of the changes for their own benefit, bugs be kitten ed. I dont blame anet for not wanting a test server. Mind you, I’m sure there’s a mad rush for a computer when the intercom says “hey guys, new update being tested, you know what to do.”
Oh, and if you didnt already know JP, take a look at mobs in Silverwastes. Have had some guildies complain about thrashers instagibbing them and npcs now.
Please, god, don’t nerf conditions too much again. I want my condi Engi to work in PVE, kitten it. >o> Try to preserve their current functionality in dungeons, I Think they work perfect.
Conditions can always use some sort of progressive cap.
Like how in GW1 there was pips and once you had 10 you could not get more, but variable and depending on creature rank, so it works well with any creature, from critters to epic bosses.
SUGGEST-A-TRON says:
PAY—ONCE—UNLOCKS—ARE—ALWAYS—BETTER.
No exceptions!
I don’t like the idea of a cap. I believe if a player is able to stack conditions, they should be rewarded for their skillful gameplay. Rather, they should simply fix burn.
i am extremely frustrated about the attitude you have about players wanting to not get auto built. just because its “more than twice the work” is not really an excuse for making my characer extremely undesirable for me to play until i fix it. let alone the multiple lowbies i have. i feel that you should at least acknowledge the error in design and give players a refund item that refunds the traits. NONE of my four characters that were autobuilt have the spec/s i would want for them.
not to mention that all eles got shoved down earth lane. gonna remake mine now, thanks! ),,,:
not trying to be a butt, it just really felt INSTANT EW to me as soon as i logged on.
Let’s be clear, this version of condition stacking and condi builds being viable in all games modes is a large part of our goal. We just want to make sure we don’t create imbalances that actually make the game less fun. Don’t expect huge balance swings, but rather our balance goal has always been to make more small adjustments.
Are you going to address how you forced characters to train into builds using their hero points without their consent? :o
It’s simple, “deal with it.” It’s the same as their reply to people complaining about this change in general: “deal with it.”
And that’s not even mentioning that they chose what it would take to get something either identical or as identical as possible. Frankly it’s a kittened in the kitten if they dont, kittened in the kitten if they do. So they’re simply going to take the road of “this is what we’re going to do, and we dont care if you dont like it.”
I can finally use my condi ele outside WvW roaming, and I like it. I think the main problem right now is the amount of burning some classes can stack, not the dmg of the burning condition itself.
I think the condition application (amount of stacks of each condition every class can apply) generally needs to be looked at. That’s where you can balance things and where all the disparity currently lies.
I even would go as far as to say, that you should need to specifically trait for conditions to even apply them on certain skills, or at least add traits that increase the amount of stacks one can apply with certain skills…
As it is right now, some classes overperform in condition application while many underperform. If condition dmg were nerfed across the board, you would make condition builds useless for the latter…
I am frustrated as well. The excuse seems to be that it doesn’t matter to level 80’s or to brand new players and that it’s a lot of work to fix. That is fine but I have a level 30 that it does matter to and that I now have to do a lot of work to fix. 60 hero points = eight or nine zones.
~Tarnished Coast Pride~
Forever known as “that slow guardian who can’t jump worth crap”.
Guys, chill for a moment. They made a solution that they thought it was the best for players, they even made it better by not requiring you to even do more than just reach 80 to get all the basic stuff (which is a big plus).
These points spent how you didn’t want them will be addressed soon I am certain. If not, take a little bit of time to explore the map a little, level a bit here and there, make a few challenges and you will be able to get the points to buy what you want with ease.
I am frustrated as well. The excuse seems to be that it doesn’t matter to level 80’s or to brand new players and that it’s a lot of work to fix. That is fine but I have a level 30 that it does matter to and that I now have to do a lot of work to fix. 60 hero points = eight or nine zones.
this exactly ),: it makes the game feel like a chore in a way. i love guild wars and exploration and the feel of the world is my favourite part i dont want to have to choose rushing through it (whigh would still take awhile) or having a character i am unsatisfied with playing. the “deal with it” response seems very childish. i get it that they can’t please everyone, but it feels weird to have the devs basically tell you "stop complaining pleb :::::: ) "
EDIT: i do feel REALLY thankful that there is communication between the community and people at anet.. i hope i didn’t sound rude in my posts. it is just frustrating to start over!
Let’s be clear, this version of condition stacking and condi builds being viable in all games modes is a large part of our goal. We just want to make sure we don’t create imbalances that actually make the game less fun. Don’t expect huge balance swings, but rather our balance goal has always been to make more small adjustments.
Just PLEASE be gentle with this… Please….
Condi users are finally enjoying conditions in PvE. Please don’t ruin bleed or poison!
I love where mesmer is currently.. i love the change to confusion and im not sure if the burn on torch is new as i havent used torch in ages but i love that too.. i think the conditions on mesmer is finally in a good place… its the other classes that can spam large stacks of conditions that are the problem.. mesmers could never do that but at least now condi mesmer is strong enough to get by especially in pve…
but while were on that subject.. can you please make conditions do something to objects? now i know it makes no sense for a wooden door or something to bleed… but the #1 reason conditions are useless in pve is because if you come across an object you cant do much to it (like doors or heart quests where you must destroy objects)
Please, for a love of whatever of the GW God’s you choose…get a test server. It is just unacceptable to me personally to see an entire game get unbalanced and the community have to play the waiting game until things are corrected.
This happens, because as bright as the people balancing things are, they simply cannot predict what is going to happen in a mass environment with live players. Can run all the algorithms in the world and that won’t stop a few players from devising a way to totally ruin the game.
Also, I don’t think we should pin this on conditions being too strong. I think everything is too strong.
I understand that this would be helpful but in the absence of a test server, which is our current situation, we will do as much as we can as fast as we can. We made some changes today and more will be coming as the week goes on. After that our intention is to make balance and bug fix changes to this stuff every couple of weeks leading up to the release of HoT.
Also, not everything is too strong, just all forms of damage.
Jon
You’re wrong dear Jon, the ones complaining are the ones used to run super tanky specs, they were not used to dodging…they were used to stack toughness/protection and healing and zerg from point A to point B.
For the love of god Jon, do not nerf the dmg, if any change are truly necessary, pls be moderate, I don’t think many people would like the idea of going back to cele meta bunker game
I’m trying to chill, I apologize for being harsh and angry. It was frustrating to log into, frustrating when I realized it was a long-term handicap that was only going to be solved completely when I had three more trait lines unlocked (to ditch Earth in any line), and frustrating when I added up how much work that would take.
I’m not a fan of grindy games that feel like chores or games where you feel you can’t do a thing until you’re the max level and that’s what the game is for my lowbie eles now. I guess I save up tomes or grind or delete – none of which are fun options for me.
~Tarnished Coast Pride~
Forever known as “that slow guardian who can’t jump worth crap”.
Let’s be clear, this version of condition stacking and condi builds being viable in all games modes is a large part of our goal. We just want to make sure we don’t create imbalances that actually make the game less fun. Don’t expect huge balance swings, but rather our balance goal has always been to make more small adjustments.
Just PLEASE be gentle with this… Please….
Condi users are finally enjoying conditions in PvE. Please don’t ruin bleed or poison!
Condi users except Necros cause they have no burning (except terribad Dhuumfire ) and compared to eg. engi incredibly low bleed application. 1 skill doing 12 bleeding stacks compared to Necro skills that do like 3-4 max. even with massive self sacrifice on eg. Blood is Power… hardly seems fair.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
Hey Jon, besides all that balancing and bug fixing, are you guys also aware of this ?
Btw., what made me ponder yesterday was, that even though I didn’t see any significant difference in the number of my stats, i felt like dishing out way more dmg. Example: my wife and me decided to have some WvW fun with our rangers. Quickly set up a build being quite close to what I played before, checked my stats, reckognized that Power, Crit. Chance, Lifepool was all about as pre-patch but boy… my actual damage was way higher than before.
Had one funny situation with a thief running up to us, stealthing himself while still being out of range. Sneaked up, 1-hitted my wife… just to get insta-downed after half of my rapidfire. That was our “wtf happened to all that damage” moment
I was in a really bad last minutes non organize teq map earlier, and even that we manage to beat it with the time still 12 mins left on the clock. it’s crazy baaaad. no complain with my necro so far .. i am enjoying her build a lot. please be gentle with the nerf senpai.
I’d argue that people returning and not remembering what they were running is a lesser issue, since with such massive changes, it may not even matter what they were running previously. Not to mention the seemingly high chance of not managing to get back a similar enough spec regardless.
Just getting these out there so we know we are all in agreement:
1) Conditions seem a bit strong
UNLESS you are a Necromancer. Plz don’t forget about that before you hit Bleed with the nerf bat.
Adjust how certain professions apply condition, reduce the number of stacks they get per attack/skill. Don’t reduce how Bleed scales assuming that it will affect all professions in a similar way. IT WONT.
Salix Babylonica (Necro), Tharnath (Guardian), N Faculty (Mesmer),
Occam Pi (Ele), Acaena Elongata (Warrior), Finja Salversdotir (Ranger),
Bytestream (Engineer), Vim Whitespace (Thief)
Honestly, they really should adjust Necromancer. It’s ridiculous that the ONE class, who thematically makes the most sense to be using conditions, is also the worst at them as well. Necromancers and Rangers should be the best condi users.
This game desperately needs a public test server. WoW and Swtor have one, and other games as well, but it doesn’t really help in some of them because of the way they are set up.. If set up properly, it can request feedback forms in-game, with specific questions and surveys, gathering data on changes, such as the issues that Jon mentions in his first post. It’s just a suggestion.
