Guild Wars 2

I agree with Vayne that some reasoning behind their decisions would be nice. An AMA would be great.

I must disagree with Vayne on a few points because..well it is what he and I do. Disagree

You said you can’t think of an MMO that has changed. True. But I take WoW, regarded as the most successful MMO ever created in terms of profit and longevity (while I loathe and despise it now).

Vanilla WoW compared to BC WoW…not a lot of change. A few QoL systems added maybe..maybe changing the size of raids from 40 to 25 man, with one 10 man raid in there too. But it was largely the same. The lore of the game flowed so well from Warcraft 3 Reign of Chaos/Frozen Throne to WoW to WoW Burning crusade. They didnt invent new crap. They took what was already there and we LOVED it. We loved playing out the conflict with Arthas, and Outland and Illidan. Because they were important characters of lore. We felt connected. The only thing from the BC expansion that was vastly different and a game changer was soon after the introduction of heroic dungeons, came dungeon tokens. This changed things for ever. I didnt agree with it, but I went with it. One huge change didnt stop me. The game, fundamentally, was still the same.

Leading into WoTLK, now this is where the game splinters a bit and starts to look different. I took a break from WoW toward the end of BC and during the beginning of WoTLK. I came back and saw people pugging raids. I was amazed. Suddenly, raids could be pugged. Blizzard changed the direction of the game so more casuals could get into raiding and more content can be experienced by all. This literally changed the face of the game to what it still is today. Raiding was for the best of the best..but kitten rewarding experience not only extrinsically but intrinsically. You felt REAL accomplishment once you cleared SSC or TK. Most guilds got stuck on A’Lar. Now, in WoTLK, groups were pugged, people bringing in alts after alts for raids. NOW they even put hard mode raids into WoTLK and changed the raiding format from 25 to 10 and 25(remember, it started out as 40 man in vanilla). Not soon after, LFG dungeon queue system put into place. Another game changer.

But, none of these changes happened until..4 or 5 years after the launch of the game. We had 4 or 5 solid years of core World of Warcraft gameplay before it was diluded into the junk that it is now. And most people you ask will recall that Vanilla or TBC were their best expansions. WoTLK was diluded, Cata was a failure according to many, and MoP was the most controversial expansion. So many people were on the fence about it and WoW is still bleeding subscriptions.

So, my point is..the game was alive and bustling for 4 or 5 years with a great repution, devoted playerbase, solid core before it changed its face. Guild Wars 2 changed its face three months.

Theres your difference.

Vayne.8563:

I was pretty unhappy with the ascended gear changes too, not for myself, but for everyone else. I felt let down that there was so much to do to get one. But then I started breaking it down and looked at how much work it actually was. If you really hate dungeons it probably sucks quite bad. World events are quite fast and easy so I don’t see that as a big a problem.

But after hearing Colin’s Pax interview, the whole thing sat a bit easier with me. I still don’t love the idea. But I felt at least he was explaining the why it was done and that did make it easier for me. It felt a bit like the old Guild Wars 1 patch notes.

Exotics were just too easy to get….based on what they had originally intended. For Guild Wars 1 players this seems like a strange statement, but I’ve always known that this game would need more of a sustained player base to support than Guild Wars 1 would. I’ve said this many times.

So yes, I can accept the ascended gear…because it really doesn’t take as long as you think.

The funny bit is, it’s actually, in some ways, easier to make money now that it has ever been, because even some of the low level mats now have value again. It’s another stream of revenue for people who don’t care about getting an ascended item. You can get the mats and make the items without leveling all the way to 500 (you only have to get to 450) and you can still enjoy everything in the game, because the ascended gear won’t stop you from playing.

But yeah….it’s a dark day for Guild Wars 1 fans who were looking forward to an actual sequel.

For me, it’s actually the temples and world bosses that did me in. I can run COF p. 1 pretty quickly for the stars. (Although I still think it’s a good idea, as usual ANet pushes the grind to far. One dragonite orb I would have found a way to do, not five) But I don’t have enough time to play for world bosses to be anything but random chance (I use to do about 1 a week). I certainly won’t sit around doing nothing for half an hour waiting for it to trigger.

I’ve only done one temple, so I don’t know how that works, but I looked around for a few days and didn’t find anyone doing them. I guess this update is not for me. Anyway, I wanted to say that it’s been informative, fun, and frustrating verbally sparing with you on this and other issues. Best of luck.

Spiral Architect.6540:

Vayne.8563:

<snip>

But after hearing Colin’s Pax interview, the whole thing sat a bit easier with me. I still don’t love the idea. But I felt at least he was explaining the why it was done and that did make it easier for me. It felt a bit like the old Guild Wars 1 patch notes.

Exotics were just too easy to get….based on what they had originally intended.

<snip>

I’ll quote myself from another thread:

Spiral Architect.6540:

I don’t really buy that. If exotics were truly not intended to be so easy to get, why did they make them craftable? Why did they make them available for dungeon tokens? Why did they include them in the drop tables?

And then there’s this, taken from here :

“Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It’s all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game: armour pieces, potentially different potions – a lot of that is still up in the air and we’ll finalise a lot of those reward systems as we get closer to release. And those come off of things like the bosses at the end of dungeons – the raids.”

Colin’s statement at PAX strikes me as just spin and smokescreen, concocted to try and get people to shut up about ArenaNet’s about face on the ascended gear release.

And I’ll paraphrase myself from that thread. Developers, they’re human. They don’t have a computer chip in their head. They’re like anyone else. They have intentions that change over time (particularly in the company that claims to be centered on iteration).

So he says something during an interview. He said it a couple of times maybe a year ago. Do you know how long a year is in game development. He probably doesn’t even remember saying it. He might not even remember THINKING it.

The same thing happened to me when I ran a business. I’d say something and then a few months later say something that contradicted it and someone would call me out on it. And I’d say, well this is how it is now. Often I didn’t even remember saying the other thing.

To you, it stuck in your mind, because that’s massively important to you. It’s one tiny aspect of the game to someone responsible for all aspects of the game.

Vayne.8563:

It’s one tiny aspect of the game to someone responsible for all aspects of the game.

One tiny aspect? No. It’s a complete about face. Calling it anything else is sheer obfuscation. I refuse to drink that koolaid.

To you, it stuck in your mind, because that’s massively important to you. It’s one tiny aspect of the game to someone responsible for all aspects of the game.

I don’t buy that.

To me it’s clear there’s been a big change in company direction. I was sold on their ideas; it’s not my fault they can’t make it profitable. To turn around and do a full 180 on those ideas and come out and say exotics were too easy to get; in my opinion is PR damage control. They’re trying to justify their decision behind ascended weapons. You should be able to recognize that.

Spiral Architect.6540:

Vayne.8563:

It’s one tiny aspect of the game to someone responsible for all aspects of the game.

One tiny aspect? No. It’s a complete about face. Calling it anything else is sheer obfuscation. I refuse to drink that koolaid.

No, I mean it. This is one tiny aspect of the game. It’s not the whole game. In order for this to be imporant, you first have to get a character TO level cap. Before you do that, there’s events to fix, there’s personal story to deal with, there are dungeons to prepare, there are festival events (Halloween was being programmed DURING launch), there are a million and one things. Saying in an interview this idea that we want all rewards to be cosmsetic is a thought bubble. It’s a concept. This isn’t the most important thing in the game to a game director. Not even close to it. The most important thing when he said those words was getting the game launched. They had some intentions.

They saw that the uptake on legendary gear sucked and came to the conclusion that people needed some stat upgrade, or they wouldn’t do it. It may well have been the wrong conclusion, considering the legendaries are a huge grind and not to everyone’s taste visually, but that’s the conclusion they reached.

But this one strut wasn’t nearly as important as say, creating a living breathing world. That was front and center. Dynamic events, that was front and center. Even the personal story, that was front and center.

What they’d do with a new tier of gear down the road, when mostly everyone was 80? When he made that statement, that wasn’t even a major concern.

The sun is warm, just saying.

Vayne.8563:

But this one strut wasn’t nearly as important as say, creating a living breathing world. That was front and center. Dynamic events, that was front and center. Even the personal story, that was front and center.

.

that was the strength of the game at launch.

Even though they have since added Living Story to support the idea of a living breathing world- I feel that it doesn’t really have that effect in the game.

They have certainly moved away from DE’s and the personal story.

To me it feels like the game never actually developed it’s original ideas- instead they went for a formula that has been around for ages and many of us are tired of.
Honestly I think that is the reason for most of the anger.
for a while there we had what we wanted only to watch it evaporate in front of our eyes only to be replaced by McDonald’s

Morrigan.2809:

Vayne.8563:

But this one strut wasn’t nearly as important as say, creating a living breathing world. That was front and center. Dynamic events, that was front and center. Even the personal story, that was front and center.

.

that was the strength of the game at launch.

Even though they have since added Living Story to support the idea of a living breathing world- I feel that it doesn’t really have that effect in the game.

They have certainly moved away from DE’s and the personal story.

To me it feels like the game never actually developed it’s original ideas- instead they went for a formula that has been around for ages and many of us are tired of.
Honestly I think that is the reason for most of the anger.
for a while there we had what we wanted only to watch it evaporate in front of our eyes only to be replaced by McDonald’s

I’m not disagreeing that this was a strength in the game. I’m not saying it’s not better.

I’m saying that the focus of the devs, the import of that one thing, might be completely different from how important it is for people who crave that sort of thing. Sure it made the game great for a lot of people. I don’t disagree with this at all.

But I’m saying that for the dev, it wasn’t the focus. They might not even realize how strong that was, or how important it was to the game design from the perspective of players. Again, when you take the game as a whole, there’s a lot going on. What are the odds your priorities and the devs are identical?

Vayne.8563:

I was pretty unhappy with the ascended gear changes too, not for myself, but for everyone else. I felt let down that there was so much to do to get one. But then I started breaking it down and looked at how much work it actually was. If you really hate dungeons it probably sucks quite bad. World events are quite fast and easy so I don’t see that as a big a problem.

But after hearing Colin’s Pax interview, the whole thing sat a bit easier with me. I still don’t love the idea. But I felt at least he was explaining the why it was done and that did make it easier for me. It felt a bit like the old Guild Wars 1 patch notes.

Exotics were just too easy to get….based on what they had originally intended. For Guild Wars 1 players this seems like a strange statement, but I’ve always known that this game would need more of a sustained player base to support than Guild Wars 1 would. I’ve said this many times.

So yes, I can accept the ascended gear…because it really doesn’t take as long as you think.

The funny bit is, it’s actually, in some ways, easier to make money now that it has ever been, because even some of the low level mats now have value again. It’s another stream of revenue for people who don’t care about getting an ascended item. You can get the mats and make the items without leveling all the way to 500 (you only have to get to 450) and you can still enjoy everything in the game, because the ascended gear won’t stop you from playing.

But yeah….it’s a dark day for Guild Wars 1 fans who were looking forward to an actual sequel.

That’s an interesting take on a rationale. You are OK with Ascended gear because " it really doesn’t take as long as you think." Are you thinking that the grind ends with Ascended? They said explicitly that we would have vertical progression going forward on a low power curve. When they made that statement they also said they had no plans for another tier of rarity and would carry VP forward through power upgrades to existing (ascended) gear.

My question to you is are you OK with this? Your grind will not stop when you have Ascended in all slots. I have all the quotes on that, but I believe you read the AMA as well so won’t give them here. For me, the issue has never been ascended gear and whether or not it is easy to obtain. My issue is chasing stats forever. And, it will be forever as long as we have vertical progression in the game. Yes, they could stop it at any point, but they have made no statements at all as to their intention. All we know is there will be VP going forward on a low power curve.

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

I was pretty unhappy with the ascended gear changes too, not for myself, but for everyone else. I felt let down that there was so much to do to get one. But then I started breaking it down and looked at how much work it actually was. If you really hate dungeons it probably sucks quite bad. World events are quite fast and easy so I don’t see that as a big a problem.

But after hearing Colin’s Pax interview, the whole thing sat a bit easier with me. I still don’t love the idea. But I felt at least he was explaining the why it was done and that did make it easier for me. It felt a bit like the old Guild Wars 1 patch notes.

Exotics were just too easy to get….based on what they had originally intended. For Guild Wars 1 players this seems like a strange statement, but I’ve always known that this game would need more of a sustained player base to support than Guild Wars 1 would. I’ve said this many times.

So yes, I can accept the ascended gear…because it really doesn’t take as long as you think.

The funny bit is, it’s actually, in some ways, easier to make money now that it has ever been, because even some of the low level mats now have value again. It’s another stream of revenue for people who don’t care about getting an ascended item. You can get the mats and make the items without leveling all the way to 500 (you only have to get to 450) and you can still enjoy everything in the game, because the ascended gear won’t stop you from playing.

But yeah….it’s a dark day for Guild Wars 1 fans who were looking forward to an actual sequel.

That’s an interesting take on a rationale. You are OK with Ascended gear because " it really doesn’t take as long as you think." Are you thinking that the grind ends with Ascended? They said explicitly that we would have vertical progression going forward on a low power curve. When they made that statement they also said they had no plans for another tier of rarity and would carry VP forward through power upgrades to existing (ascended) gear.

My question to you is are you OK with this? Your grind will not stop when you have Ascended in all slots. I have all the quotes on that, but I believe you read the AMA as well so won’t give them here. For me, the issue has never been ascended gear and whether or not it is easy to obtain. My issue is chasing stats forever. And, it will be forever as long as we have vertical progression in the game. Yes, they could stop it at any point, but they have made no statements at all as to their intention. All we know is there will be VP going forward on a low power curve.

I’m personally okay with it, because I don’t chase stats. I don’t think about stats much. I don’t care much about stats. I’m not a min-maxer and never will be. Let’s pretend that I don’t have ascended gear and you do. Yay. I don’t care. So this doesn’t bother me personally. I certainly can see why other people are bothered.

It bothered me far more not to get a frog scepter in Guild Wars 1 (I ran bog root growths so many times it would make your head spin), than not having an ascended weapon. It might be different if I thought the skins were cool though. lol

This whole stat thing you have doesn’t bother me at all, so if they slowly add more gear, it won’t essentially change my game…but I can see why it would annoy the hell out of you.

I’m personally okay with it, because I don’t chase stats. I don’t think about stats much. I don’t care much about stats. I’m not a min-maxer and never will be. Let’s pretend that I don’t have ascended gear and you do. Yay. I don’t care. So this doesn’t bother me personally. I certainly can see why other people are bothered.

You might be right.

The casual market might not chase the carrot but the hardcore market does. If another studio siphons away the hardcore market from GW2; I believe the casual market will follow them.

Who are hardcore players?

-WvW commanders
-Guild leaders
-Fan site creators
-Character build theorycrafters
-Mix-Max experimenters
-PVE/PVP teamplay strategy designers

Can you make a game just for a casual crowd and have them hang around after all the hardcore, passionate crowd leaves? I don’t think so.

Calae.1738:

I’m personally okay with it, because I don’t chase stats. I don’t think about stats much. I don’t care much about stats. I’m not a min-maxer and never will be. Let’s pretend that I don’t have ascended gear and you do. Yay. I don’t care. So this doesn’t bother me personally. I certainly can see why other people are bothered.

You might be right.

The casual market might not chase the carrot but the hardcore market does. If another studio siphons away the hardcore market from GW2; I believe the casual market will follow them.

Who are hardcore players?

-WvW commanders
-Guild leaders
-Fan site creators
-Character build theorycrafters
-Mix-Max experimenters
-PVE/PVP teamplay strategy designers

Can you make a game just for a casual crowd and have them hang around after all the hardcore, passionate crowd leaves? I don’t think so.

I don’t buy this at all. I run a guild and I still don’t care about stats. My guild has 120 members. Not a huge amount, but we’re relatively active. We have our guild missions twice a week. We do other stuff together.

The thing is, if all the hard core people left today, the game wouldn’t be significantly worse for me. It wouldn’t make much difference to me.

I just bang around having fun. I can do that with our without hard core people.

Hell, I don’t think most casual players even belong to guilds.

On my server for the past week I’VE noticed everyone seems to be in LA. The game world itself is empty. I kept running into group events with no one but me around. With all the changes with gear and empty world, I have a bad feeling about the future of this game. I think the temp.content they are adding is a big waste of time now. They need to start fixing the main games problems and stop wasting time with other crap.

wmtyrance.3571:

On my server for the past week I’VE noticed everyone seems to be in LA. The game world itself is empty. I kept running into group events with no one but me around. With all the changes with gear and empty world, I have a bad feeling about the future of this game. I think the temp.content they are adding is a big waste of time now. They need to start fixing the main games problems and stop wasting time with other crap.

Maybe everyone from your server is guesting to my server. If you think no one is playing, try one of Scarlet’s zone invasions, or look at the temple events in Orr. I haven’t seen so many people in Orr in ages.

Vayne.8563:

But I’m saying that for the dev, it wasn’t the focus. They might not even realize how strong that was, or how important it was to the game design from the perspective of players. Again, when you take the game as a whole, there’s a lot going on. What are the odds your priorities and the devs are identical?

There’s been a huge amount of uproar and “discussion” centered around gear. It started with the, “Nothing to work for, no endgame, no progression” posts last fall, went through a huge outcry about Ascended that prompted an AMA to respond, and has been an ongoing issue since. There were many threads about dailies — which would not have been an issue except for laurels. There was a recent consolidation of threads about Ascended into a 20 page thread that I can no longer find. Since the Ascended weapon pre-patch blog, there have been a lot of pro and con threads/posts.

Statements about the role of gear, exotics being top tier, max stat gear being easy to get and horizontal/cosmetic progression being the motivation to continue playing were important enough to be seen as selling points pre-launch.

If Colin is unaware or only peripherally aware of how important this subject is, then he’s not doing his job as Game Director. Suggesting that the Game Director is not aware of the details surrounding a controversial issue that is dividing community opinion is either disingenuous or insulting to his professionalism.

I agree that more communication would be nice on patch notes.

But at the same time you can’t say that they do not communicate. We received the reason why they implemented a lot of the changes. The problem is the reason is in some interview or some blog elsewhere.

Also some changes would be controversial. But they don’t have to go with the popular opinion. This is a entertainment industry not a service industry. Going with popular opinion is the safe thing to do. Not always the best.

Morrigan.2809:

Vayne.8563:

But this one strut wasn’t nearly as important as say, creating a living breathing world. That was front and center. Dynamic events, that was front and center. Even the personal story, that was front and center.

.

that was the strength of the game at launch.

Even though they have since added Living Story to support the idea of a living breathing world- I feel that it doesn’t really have that effect in the game.

They have certainly moved away from DE’s and the personal story.

To me it feels like the game never actually developed it’s original ideas- instead they went for a formula that has been around for ages and many of us are tired of.
Honestly I think that is the reason for most of the anger.
for a while there we had what we wanted only to watch it evaporate in front of our eyes only to be replaced by McDonald’s

I agree with you but in the end did they really have a choice? What happened when people got at level 80? nearly everyone either went WvW or farmed Orr. Very few cared about the DE fewer still even cared about the chains. time and time again I would be following the dialog right after an event in a chain ends to see absolutely everyone leaving looking for the next event.

How about the feedback on the forum? how many posts saying there is nothing to do once you get to max level? was that true? I got 1000 hours + and I havent even finish all the zones and seen all the dynamic events yet people with less then a 100 hours said they had done everything. Why was that? because they didnt care about lower level zones.

I am right there with you, I would definitely have loved had they gone with the original vision of having new dynamic events propel forward the story of the various zones. But had they done that the game would have likely failed because in the end the vast majority of the players just didnt see the point of enjoying the story dynamic events had, they just wanted to play the most rewarding content they could find and that was farming in Orr.

The way I see it Arenanet were left with 2 options. Either do what they did, IE new content with temporary rewards thus making those rewards valuable enough with their artificial scarcity to be worth pursuing or have new content with ever increasing more valuable reward but that could be left in permanently.

Option A worked pretty good and unlike Option B doesnt cause inflation because of ever increasing rewards.

The game didnt develop the way it did to spite its fans, it did because thats what the player base wanted.

My real question is how many people who are angry now with the direction the game ended up taking where the once who once they got to max level never bothered playing any content that didnt provide the most optimum reward because sometimes It seems there is a huge disconnect between what players say the want and how they act.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

But I’m saying that for the dev, it wasn’t the focus. They might not even realize how strong that was, or how important it was to the game design from the perspective of players. Again, when you take the game as a whole, there’s a lot going on. What are the odds your priorities and the devs are identical?

There’s been a huge amount of uproar and “discussion” centered around gear. It started with the, “Nothing to work for, no endgame, no progression” posts last fall, went through a huge outcry about Ascended that prompted an AMA to respond, and has been an ongoing issue since. There were many threads about dailies — which would not have been an issue except for laurels. There was a recent consolidation of threads about Ascended into a 20 page thread that I can no longer find. Since the Ascended weapon pre-patch blog, there have been a lot of pro and con threads/posts.

Statements about the role of gear, exotics being top tier, max stat gear being easy to get and horizontal/cosmetic progression being the motivation to continue playing were important enough to be seen as selling points pre-launch.

If Colin is unaware or only peripherally aware of how important this subject is, then he’s not doing his job as Game Director. Suggesting that the Game Director is not aware of the details surrounding a controversial issue that is dividing community opinion is either disingenuous or insulting to his professionalism.

I’m not talking about aware now. I’m talking about aware when he first spoke those words. Those threads weren’t around then. You’re comparing something he said way pre launch to something that is now occurring post launch.

People simply aren’t forgiving.

There’s not a person here who hasn’t said something that hasn’t been misunderstood, or hasn’t changed their mind or hasn’t forgotten something they’ve said months later. Not one person.

But everyone is willing to point a finger and say he lied. He’s a liar. Well, he might well be a liar. And he might not be. The direction of the game definitely did change, but how strongly that direction was etched into the minds of the devs…that’s not clear. For all we know there was wild debating behind the scenes.

I never attribute to malice something that can be explained by lack of realization or coordination or focus. They’re all problems. But one of those problems is malicious and intentional.

Anet lacks focus and they’re terribad at communication, but that’s not quite the same as lying. And if they were going to change things, there was no real reason to say that in the first place. They would have known it would come back to bite them.

Galen Grey.4709:

Morrigan.2809:

Vayne.8563:

But this one strut wasn’t nearly as important as say, creating a living breathing world. That was front and center. Dynamic events, that was front and center. Even the personal story, that was front and center.

.

that was the strength of the game at launch.

Even though they have since added Living Story to support the idea of a living breathing world- I feel that it doesn’t really have that effect in the game.

They have certainly moved away from DE’s and the personal story.

To me it feels like the game never actually developed it’s original ideas- instead they went for a formula that has been around for ages and many of us are tired of.
Honestly I think that is the reason for most of the anger.
for a while there we had what we wanted only to watch it evaporate in front of our eyes only to be replaced by McDonald’s

I agree with you but in the end did they really have a choice? What happened when people got at level 80? nearly everyone either went WvW or farmed Orr. Very few cared about the DE fewer still even cared about the chains. time and time again I would be following the dialog right after an event in a chain ends to see absolutely everyone leaving looking for the next event.

How about the feedback on the forum? how many posts saying there is nothing to do once you get to max level? was that true? I got 1000 hours + and I havent even finish all the zones and seen all the dynamic events yet people with less then a 100 hours said they had done everything. Why was that? because they didnt care about lower level zones.

I am right there with you, I would definitely have loved had they gone with the original vision of having new dynamic events propel forward the story of the various zones. But had they done that the game would have likely failed because in the end the vast majority of the players just didnt see the point of enjoying the story dynamic events had, they just wanted to play the most rewarding content they could find and that was farming in Orr.

The way I see it Arenanet were left with 2 options. Either do what they did, IE new content with temporary rewards thus making those rewards valuable enough with their artificial scarcity to be worth pursuing or have new content with ever increasing more valuable reward but that could be left in permanently.

Option A worked pretty good and unlike Option B doesnt cause inflation because of ever increasing rewards.

The game didnt develop the way it did to spite its fans, it did because thats what the player base wanted.

My real question is how many people who are angry now with the direction the game ended up taking where the once who once they got to max level never bothered playing any content that didnt provide the most optimum reward because sometimes It seems there is a huge disconnect between what players say the want and how they act.

Speaking just for me- I think that the people who rushed to 80 as fast as possible, missed everything in between and then farmed Orr, come from more traditional MMO’s where the “endgame” is the holy grail.

I understand that they were disillusioned by GW2 but honestly how many of those people do you think are still here?
Personally I think they caught the shiney train to all the other games out there since then.

The thing is, I also don’t think Anet had a choice back then.
Now is a different story though because they do have systems in place and the resources and assets to keep content fresh for those who constantly want new stuff.
Yet despite a very loud outcry – we now have even more Ascended.
Arguably the least creative, least fun and most boring alternative

As for chasing the money- personally I have never bothered, that is why the most gold I’ve ever had is less than 30. I don’t care because I can get what I want and have fun playing.

Just from my personal experience:
I belong to a very small gaming community in my country.
A bunch of us started a GW2 thread back in April last year.
We all joined the same server and we all see each other in the game.
That thread has never dropped off the front page, until about a week ago.
The last post was mine.
Since, I have seen one person in game- once.

I realize this is just a small example- but it leads me to think that more people than just a couple, play the game just for fun and don’t appreciate being lead around by a to do list.
Some people just like to play games.

Morrigan.2809:

Speaking just for me- I think that the people who rushed to 80 as fast as possible, missed everything in between and then farmed Orr, come from more traditional MMO’s where the “endgame” is the holy grail.

I understand that they were disillusioned by GW2 but honestly how many of those people do you think are still here?
Personally I think they caught the shiney train to all the other games out there since then.

The thing is, I also don’t think Anet had a choice back then.
Now is a different story though because they do have systems in place and the resources and assets to keep content fresh for those who constantly want new stuff.
Yet despite a very loud outcry – we now have even more Ascended.
Arguably the least creative, least fun and most boring alternative

As for chasing the money- personally I have never bothered, that is why the most gold I’ve ever had is less than 30. I don’t care because I can get what I want and have fun playing.

Just from my personal experience:
I belong to a very small gaming community in my country.
A bunch of us started a GW2 thread back in April last year.
We all joined the same server and we all see each other in the game.
That thread has never dropped off the front page, until about a week ago.
The last post was mine.
Since, I have seen one person in game- once.

I realize this is just a small example- but it leads me to think that more people than just a couple, play the game just for fun and don’t appreciate being lead around by a to do list.

Some people just like to play games.

Some people just like to play games.

So true. About the time GW2 started to go south (for us this was the AC buff in WvW which destroyed small group play), our guild moved on to Steam in a big way.

Steam has been absolute Godsend in keeping us together until we can be dedicated to another MMO (as WvW fans you probably can guess what that is).

There are so many different F2P or cheap games on Steam, in so many different genres, that everyone in your guild can find something to play together. And the social networking functions they have built in are just amazing. I would recommend all MMO guilds join.

Vayne.8563:

Without knowing their reasons for change, I don’t see how we can judge the change. And, for the most part, Anet isn’t sharing their reasons.

I think it would be nice of patch notes would include not just changes, but notes behind the rational for changes.

I think this might help diffuse some of reactions people have to them.

For once I might agree with you…even as unlikely as this suggestion is. However, it really may not help anything at all if they just keep on making changes their customers aren’t happy with.

This brings me to my next point. This last update has caused the most serious negative feedback both on the forums and in game since launch. By far and away more people are unhappy with this latest patch than any other one. Yet Anet hasn’t said kitten about it. Ever wonder why?

My theory is that this decision came down from NCsoft. Look at the Cantha thread. They’re not saying kitten about that stuff either. Anet usually would respond to something that has created so much negative feedback if it was their decision. We all know now about the Cantha problem and what happened there. This probably isn’t too different. NCsoft probably suggested this or told Anet to create something grindy for the hardcore gamers or lose them.

This also segues nicely into another point. This game is not GW1. This game has a different audience. I know the loyal GW1 people are mad and they have every right to be, but you also have to realize that GW1 appealed to far fewer people than mainstream MMOs did. I know GW1 wasn’t really an MMO but GW2 is. Because of this, GW2 will not be immune to problems that plague modern day MMOs. One day GW2 is going to tank really hard, just like every other game. Hell, this last update could be the climax of the downward spiral, who knows. This happens to every MMO, but GW2 is free so it might just take longer.

IndigoSundown.5419:

There was a recent consolidation of threads about Ascended into a 20 page thread that I can no longer find.

You can’t find that thread because, after 20 pages of comments (and not a single response from anyone at ANet) it was deleted. That thread is gone, completely ignored.

You are right, Vayne. This game has changed. It is as though I went into a restaurant and ordered filet mignon, then in the middle of the meal, the waiter came back, took away the filet mignon and gave me tuna noodle casserole.

Zindrix.1750:

Vayne.8563:

Without knowing their reasons for change, I don’t see how we can judge the change. And, for the most part, Anet isn’t sharing their reasons.

I think it would be nice of patch notes would include not just changes, but notes behind the rational for changes.

I think this might help diffuse some of reactions people have to them.

For once I might agree with you…even as unlikely as this suggestion is. However, it really may not help anything at all if they just keep on making changes their customers aren’t happy with.

This brings me to my next point. This last update has caused the most serious negative feedback both on the forums and in game since launch. By far and away more people are unhappy with this latest patch than any other one. Yet Anet hasn’t said kitten about it. Ever wonder why?

My theory is that this decision came down from NCsoft. Look at the Cantha thread. They’re not saying kitten about that stuff either. Anet usually would respond to something that has created so much negative feedback if it was their decision. We all know now about the Cantha problem and what happened there. This probably isn’t too different. NCsoft probably suggested this or told Anet to create something grindy for the hardcore gamers or lose them.

This also segues nicely into another point. This game is not GW1. This game has a different audience. I know the loyal GW1 people are mad and they have every right to be, but you also have to realize that GW1 appealed to far fewer people than mainstream MMOs did. I know GW1 wasn’t really an MMO but GW2 is. Because of this, GW2 will not be immune to problems that plague modern day MMOs. One day GW2 is going to tank really hard, just like every other game. Hell, this last update could be the climax of the downward spiral, who knows. This happens to every MMO, but GW2 is free so it might just take longer.

the game is not really 100% free since you have to buy the game license on top of that they have a cash shop setup to counter measure the free services. now if you are talking about free games most MMO have gone f2p these days to compete against asian games.

Spiral Architect.6540:

IndigoSundown.5419:

There was a recent consolidation of threads about Ascended into a 20 page thread that I can no longer find.

You can’t find that thread because, after 20 pages of comments (and not a single response from anyone at ANet) it was deleted. That thread is gone, completely ignored.

You are right, Vayne. This game has changed. It is as though I went into a restaurant and ordered filet mignon, then in the middle of the meal, the waiter came back, took away the filet mignon and gave me tuna noodle casserole.

Figures that they’re starting to censor their forums. Oh well.

Also, did your tuna noodle casserole have salmonella?

(edit: typo)

Spiral Architect.6540:

IndigoSundown.5419:

There was a recent consolidation of threads about Ascended into a 20 page thread that I can no longer find.

You can’t find that thread because, after 20 pages of comments (and not a single response from anyone at ANet) it was deleted. That thread is gone, completely ignored.

You are right, Vayne. This game has changed. It is as though I went into a restaurant and ordered filet mignon, then in the middle of the meal, the waiter came back, took away the filet mignon and gave me tuna noodle casserole.

Not quite an accurate analogy those. The fillet mignon is still on the menu.

The hearts are still there. The dynamic events are still there. The dungeons are still there. WvW is still there.

All the things the game lauched with are still there (except there have been some major improvements, including stuff like being able to preview weapons in the marketplace, the account wallet, and the culling fix).

This stuff wasn’t taken away from the game and people still play and enjoy it.

What happened was you paid for a meal, you ate the meal and now the restaurant has expanded and offered a whole lot of different meals that you don’t like.

People do play this game and ignore the daily and have fun. You can eat your steak if you want.

Vayne.8563:

Spiral Architect.6540:

IndigoSundown.5419:

There was a recent consolidation of threads about Ascended into a 20 page thread that I can no longer find.

You can’t find that thread because, after 20 pages of comments (and not a single response from anyone at ANet) it was deleted. That thread is gone, completely ignored.

You are right, Vayne. This game has changed. It is as though I went into a restaurant and ordered filet mignon, then in the middle of the meal, the waiter came back, took away the filet mignon and gave me tuna noodle casserole.

Not quite an accurate analogy those. The fillet mignon is still on the menu.

The hearts are still there. The dynamic events are still there. The dungeons are still there. WvW is still there.

All the things the game lauched with are still there (except there have been some major improvements, including stuff like being able to preview weapons in the marketplace, the account wallet, and the culling fix).

This stuff wasn’t taken away from the game and people still play and enjoy it.

What happened was you paid for a meal, you ate the meal and now the restaurant has expanded and offered a whole lot of different meals that you don’t like.

People do play this game and ignore the daily and have fun. You can eat your steak if you want.

Except the people who order new stuff are now taller than you. By 0.5 cm. But still.

The biggest change for me has been the lack of players playing dungeons anymore. Im not talking only about COF….which still has a healthy following. Im talking about the rest of the dungeons.

Raine.1394:

An ascending power curve does not create an ‘optional’ grind, not even a borderline optional one—but I am happy to see you’re at least using the word borderline. The purpose of vertical progression is to 1) create an illusion of character progression, and 2) motivate continued play. If the games power level is ascending over time, following that power curve is obviously not optional. This is what motivates people to play.

And, we don’t need to know their reasons for a given change in order to judge it. We experience the effects in our game play; it only makes sense to judge it. I do agree that full communication of the rationale would diffuse negative reactions, especially if the rationale was rational.

I agree with you. It’s not optional it’s mandatory. It’s sad when the spin is so bad on this. The bosses that you fight now are going to be alot harder coming around the corner, the new fractal content that I’m sure they are working on in the background will definitely have agony resist requirements and it will be expected you have the best gear in order to run. The negative reactions are due to once again having to deal with a system that didn’t get thought thru properly before putting content out and not being tested properly in a standard PTR which would have caught these problems instantly. That’s where the complaints are coming from. Reasonable expectations for Quality and Care from the playerbase.

Zindrix.1750:

Spiral Architect.6540:

IndigoSundown.5419:

There was a recent consolidation of threads about Ascended into a 20 page thread that I can no longer find.

You can’t find that thread because, after 20 pages of comments (and not a single response from anyone at ANet) it was deleted. That thread is gone, completely ignored.

Figures that they’re starting to censoring their forums. Oh well.

They’ve always censored the forums. It’s just a lot easier to notice when ArenaNet has made changes unpopular enough to cause an outcry.

Since there’s no thread subscription like with proper forum software, most of the time when they delete, most people just assume the conversation died and got bumped off the first page – and for most people, anything not on the first page might as well not exist… (this goes for any forum, not just here, and is the main reason why people end up posting the same topics and questions that have already come up a thousand times before, no matter how recently; not including contenious issues like Ascended items, of course)

Morrigan.2809:

Speaking just for me- I think that the people who rushed to 80 as fast as possible, missed everything in between … snip

It wasnt just people who rushed to 80. I am on piken square the unofficial RP server. I rarely saw people who bothered with event chains. These might not be the players who rushed to 80 but they still rush from event to event. chain after chain players came did the event and the moment it gave out the reward they move on. often I would see people do the 1st event in a chain move out only to see them join in again on say the 4th event in the chain. Thats not how people who appreciate the events would play. I thought that perhaps they just didnt know so I even tried an experiment. I went to the most epic chain I knew off at the time, the one in Lornar’s Pass if you know it, the one where you have to collect the relics and then destroy the summoning stone. Anyhow I did that chain a few times and each time at each event I told people to stick around because the event chained. Not one in any of those many attempts stuck around they all walked away. Whats more tragic is this was piken square, the unofficial roleplaying server you know the server the players you mention are likely to avoid like the plague!

And dont get me wrong from what other people describe things are indeed much better on my server, there was never any such thing as deserted zones and low level maps are more lively then max level maps even now but still dynamic events never engaged players on my server as much as Arenanet had hoped for I am sure of that.

I didnt want Ascended gear in the game either. In fact too bad the big huge ascended gear threat is not there cause I could show people my post against them on like page 5 of the 2000+ page post. But now its there and once you start a course you have to commit to it. I dont see them just stopping ascended gear at trinkets, that would be worst in the grand scheme of things, for better or for worst the whole set will need to come out now that they made the decision to create it. The best we can hope for is now they know they shouldn’t release a new tier after this and for the most part it seems that’s the case.

In my opinion they went about it the best way possible. Trinkets you can get by playing anything you like, completing dailies / guild missions etc… which is great. Weapons involve a bit of work true, maybe I just dont see it that bad because I love crafting and funnily enough an ascended weapon is the only ascended thing I’ve been going for just because it is crafting, never felt the desire to get rings, amulets or whatever even though I have enough laurels and guild commendations that I can just buy a set of each for each of my max level character most likely. They’re optional enough that there is just no need to hurry up and get them, getting them at your own pace you will barely even notice. But the trick is you have to be patient which a lot of players dont seem capable off.

What I am getting at is this. Yes crafting an ascended weapon requires a long list of stuff but most of the that list you do playing for fun anyway. When I didnt care about any ascended Item I still did guild missions with my guild, I still went to help out in the occasional world boss. I still did the occasional fractal/dungeon run. I played solo too, did jumping puzzles etc..thats the same stuff you have to do to craft your ascended weapon. The whole thing becomes a list if you try to get it done in the least amount of time possible. If I go ohh I need 500 dragonite ore so I need to run 25 dungeons then yeah thats gonna feel bad sure. Is the game doing that though ? no Like the game has been doing from day 1 its giving me a set of requirements and leaving me free to get them anyway I want. So what I personal do is forget the 500 this or that. I just play the game. Someone in guild chat feels like I dungeon, okey I feel like that too… great I got some of the required dragonite ore. guild mission day, I am not going to refuse to join cause I need to get my dungeon 25 runs done. besides that will get other stuff I need for weapon.
Point is most of this animosity I have no doubt is caused once again by the urge to rush. We’ve been playing the game for over a year without ascended weapons but now that they’ve been introduced it is somehow inconceivable to be without them for more then a week or two max. Why? why is it a problem to play the game the way you enjoy and get your weapon done in a month or two instead? (asking in general)

I think at the end of the day it might be thakittens not that the game has changed but that it has not changed enough for some. The game has always been at getting what you want at your own pace doing what you decide to do. But people dont want that, they just want every reward and they want in a very quick way.
None of this is meant to criticize anyone just my point of view on the situation.

byjiang.1260:

Vayne.8563:

Spiral Architect.6540:

IndigoSundown.5419:

There was a recent consolidation of threads about Ascended into a 20 page thread that I can no longer find.

You can’t find that thread because, after 20 pages of comments (and not a single response from anyone at ANet) it was deleted. That thread is gone, completely ignored.

You are right, Vayne. This game has changed. It is as though I went into a restaurant and ordered filet mignon, then in the middle of the meal, the waiter came back, took away the filet mignon and gave me tuna noodle casserole.

Not quite an accurate analogy those. The fillet mignon is still on the menu.

The hearts are still there. The dynamic events are still there. The dungeons are still there. WvW is still there.

All the things the game lauched with are still there (except there have been some major improvements, including stuff like being able to preview weapons in the marketplace, the account wallet, and the culling fix).

This stuff wasn’t taken away from the game and people still play and enjoy it.

What happened was you paid for a meal, you ate the meal and now the restaurant has expanded and offered a whole lot of different meals that you don’t like.

People do play this game and ignore the daily and have fun. You can eat your steak if you want.

Except the people who order new stuff are now taller than you. By 0.5 cm. But still.

Sure, but it took a year to happen. If you haven’t gotten your money’s worth by now, that sorta sucks, but what can you do? There are still people playing and liking this game.

Caramel Ham.4891:

The biggest change for me has been the lack of players playing dungeons anymore. Im not talking only about COF….which still has a healthy following. Im talking about the rest of the dungeons.

Are you sure? cause seems to me thats one area that improved a lot.

This is not scientific by any means but I dont have a better options. according to gw2lfg currently there are 133 groups for dungeons other then CoF create in the last 30 minutes.

I used archive.org to do the same count in June there were just 64 group for dungeons other then CoF

Today there are 26 groups for CoF and in Jun there were 33 groups for CoF (first 30 minutes only counted)

In april there were 110 group for dungeons other then CoF

Seems to be improving not getting worst. Whats giving you the impression its getting worst?

I think there are more people running dungeons too, because they want the ascended mats that come from them. My guild is doing far more dungeons now than they were a couple of weeks ago. Mind you that could have been because of the zone wide invasions too.

byjiang.1260:

Except the people who order new stuff are now taller than you. By 0.5 cm. But still.

Not really.

I am sure we can agree in spvp, pve there is 0 issue with the new stuff at best you can go in a group where someone has ascended gear and you dont and thats only going to help you.

That leave WvW there yes someone buying the new stuff might be 0.5cm larger then you absolutely true. But then again if your team is 10 people and their team is 20 they’re 10 meters larger then you are.

If you’re attacking their keep and they have a couple of arrow cards they’re 50 meters larger then you are.

If you at a keep alone and there is a zerg trying to get in they’re 10 km larger then you are.

If you have no ascended gear and you’re in a zerg of 20 and they’re in a zerg of 10, they might all have ascended gear and you have none and you’re still 10 meters larger.

I could go on. Arenanet have been saying from they one there is no balance and they are not trying to balance WvW… there is a reason for that and that is its impossible to balance. Plenty of stuff in WvW that unbalancing things far more then 5% thats really the least of the worries.

Lets not forget WvW is Server vs Server not one vs one engagements. In the over all strategy and win or loose of WvW ascended gear doenst make a single bit of difference.

Vayne.8563:

You can eat your steak if you want.

For a short while, perhaps. Once ascended armor comes out, they’ll start tuning content to that gear level. Then, when the next tier of gear comes out, they’ll tune to that. And so on. Pretty soon, that steak will be off the menu.

In one short year, they went from "Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.” to “Here, everyone: chase the shiny lewtz, just like you did in all those other games.” ’Tis a shame.

Enjoy your tuna noodle casserole.

Spiral Architect.6540:

Vayne.8563:

You can eat your steak if you want.

For a short while, perhaps. Once ascended armor comes out, they’ll start tuning content to that gear level. Then, when the next tier of gear comes out, they’ll tune to that. And so on. Pretty soon, that steak will be off the menu.

In one short year, they went from "Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.” to “Here, everyone: chase the shiny lewtz, just like you did in all those other games.” ’Tis a shame.

Enjoy your tuna noodle casserole.

they havent even tuned content for exotic gear yet and thats been here for at least a year.

Vayne.8563:

I think there are more people running dungeons too, because they want the ascended mats that come from them. My guild is doing far more dungeons now than they were a couple of weeks ago. Mind you that could have been because of the zone wide invasions too.

Thats an interesting statement, do you think they’re running dungeons because they want to or because they have to?

Spiral Architect.6540:

Vayne.8563:

You can eat your steak if you want.

For a short while, perhaps. Once ascended armor comes out, they’ll start tuning content to that gear level. Then, when the next tier of gear comes out, they’ll tune to that. And so on. Pretty soon, that steak will be off the menu.

In one short year, they went from "Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.” to “Here, everyone: chase the shiny lewtz, just like you did in all those other games.” ’Tis a shame.

Enjoy your tuna noodle casserole.

I don’t believe there’ll be a next tier of gear. Simply put, the game will have enough stickiness by then where it won’t be necessary.

Calae.1738:

Vayne.8563:

I think there are more people running dungeons too, because they want the ascended mats that come from them. My guild is doing far more dungeons now than they were a couple of weeks ago. Mind you that could have been because of the zone wide invasions too.

Thats an interesting statement, do you think they’re running dungeons because they want to or because they have to?

Even people who like to run dungeons only run dungeons for so long before they get bored of them. They forget how much fun they can be. Many people had already stopped running most of them.

Sometimes people are their worst enemies. There are people in my guild who had no interest in dungeons because they were bored of them…but not they’re finding them fun all over again.

My answer is that everyone is different…but I always have fun in dungeons…since I don’t pug and my guild is hysterical.

Vayne.8563:

Maybe everyone from your server is guesting to my server. If you think no one is playing, try one of Scarlet’s zone invasions, or look at the temple events in Orr. I haven’t seen so many people in Orr in ages.

That is one of the huge problems in the game: Far too many people are either hanging out in a hub or in a zerg.

When you can encounter only a half-dozen people when spending an hour in what should be prime time (roughly 7:30-8:30pm Eastern last night for me, for example) in a formerly crowded zone (Plains of Ashford on Borlis; back in November, last time I played with any regularity, was very crowded with players of all races and level ranges for most of the day.), it’s a sign that ArenaNet really needs to do something to spread the population out instead of continually trying to concentrate the population as they’ve been doing…

IndigoSundown.5419:

There’s been a huge amount of uproar and “discussion” centered around gear. It started with the, “Nothing to work for, no endgame, no progression” posts last fall

…which (coincidentally, I’m sure – NOT!) mostly started AFTER Ascended was announced. Most of the complaints about lack of endgame before then boiled down to the “endgame” being the exact same stuff you’d been doing since level 30 (when the dungeons start to open).

Vayne.8563:

There are people in my guild who had no interest in dungeons because they were bored of them…but not they’re finding them fun all over again.

This kinda statements are why i still visit this forum.

Vayne.8563:

Even people who like to run dungeons only run dungeons for so long before they get bored of them. They forget how much fun they can be. Many people had already stopped running most of them.

Sometimes people are their worst enemies. There are people in my guild who had no interest in dungeons because they were bored of them…but not they’re finding them fun all over again.

I still run dungeons and its fun even in pugs (well arah pugs are not fun..ranging crusher?? rly??). But even i get a little bored of dungeons im doing alot, like AC and TA. They really need new dungeons or change up the current ones by adding new bosses or making new paths. Its not really peoples own fault that they get bored. Id really like to know why they havent spent any time whatsoever on dungeons (what they have spent is minimal).

The game sure did change and in my opinion, it doesn’t favor my play style. I love the GW2 – Released Version – a lot and I thought they will continue with that. Unfortunately, the GW2 – Living Story Version – is not what I envision when I bought the game. To my disappointment, I no longer play the game outside from logging in just to see what’s going on then logging out. It’s sad really that because of the changes and the decision they have made me realize that all these are simply to boosts their sales.

I’m sure they can rationalize or justify their decision but I am simply sharing what I see hoping that my perspective will make them realize that this is how someone like me view their game one year later. In the mean time, there’s really nothing for me to do since the Living Story is not about me anymore — I simply want more Personal Story. I want to see why the Vigil thinks they can take out the dragons. I want to see their strategies and tactics on taking out a dragon. Same goes with other Order, what’s their plan? Their goal?

The Released Version have a strong foundation for great story but instead, Anet went completely side ways and worked on Living Story. So I guess, until the Personal Story 2.0 becomes a reality, there’s really no reason for me to play. And that is one thing that has changed in this game, my guild used to have 150 members and it’s now dead, not because people leave for another guild, but because of people no longer log in.

Spiral Architect.6540:

IndigoSundown.5419:

There was a recent consolidation of threads about Ascended into a 20 page thread that I can no longer find.

You can’t find that thread because, after 20 pages of comments (and not a single response from anyone at ANet) it was deleted. That thread is gone, completely ignored.

You are right, Vayne. This game has changed. It is as though I went into a restaurant and ordered filet mignon, then in the middle of the meal, the waiter came back, took away the filet mignon and gave me tuna noodle casserole.

Rightfully so, nothing good comes from those threads, It’s devoted fan boys vs people who will never see it from any perspective but their own. It should have been shut down by 10 pages.

That is personal opinion, It feels like I went into a restaurant, got given 7 filet mignon’s for the price of one and was given a tuna noodle casserole after. People act as if MMO’s do not change, when in fact they change a lot. Especially when they where stagnant for a good period of time.

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

But I’m saying that for the dev, it wasn’t the focus. They might not even realize how strong that was, or how important it was to the game design from the perspective of players. Again, when you take the game as a whole, there’s a lot going on. What are the odds your priorities and the devs are identical?

There’s been a huge amount of uproar and “discussion” centered around gear. It started with the, “Nothing to work for, no endgame, no progression” posts last fall, went through a huge outcry about Ascended that prompted an AMA to respond, and has been an ongoing issue since. There were many threads about dailies — which would not have been an issue except for laurels. There was a recent consolidation of threads about Ascended into a 20 page thread that I can no longer find. Since the Ascended weapon pre-patch blog, there have been a lot of pro and con threads/posts.

Statements about the role of gear, exotics being top tier, max stat gear being easy to get and horizontal/cosmetic progression being the motivation to continue playing were important enough to be seen as selling points pre-launch.

If Colin is unaware or only peripherally aware of how important this subject is, then he’s not doing his job as Game Director. Suggesting that the Game Director is not aware of the details surrounding a controversial issue that is dividing community opinion is either disingenuous or insulting to his professionalism.

I’m not talking about aware now. I’m talking about aware when he first spoke those words. Those threads weren’t around then. You’re comparing something he said way pre launch to something that is now occurring post launch.

People simply aren’t forgiving.

There’s not a person here who hasn’t said something that hasn’t been misunderstood, or hasn’t changed their mind or hasn’t forgotten something they’ve said months later. Not one person.

But everyone is willing to point a finger and say he lied. He’s a liar. Well, he might well be a liar. And he might not be. The direction of the game definitely did change, but how strongly that direction was etched into the minds of the devs…that’s not clear. For all we know there was wild debating behind the scenes.

I never attribute to malice something that can be explained by lack of realization or coordination or focus. They’re all problems. But one of those problems is malicious and intentional.

Anet lacks focus and they’re terribad at communication, but that’s not quite the same as lying. And if they were going to change things, there was no real reason to say that in the first place. They would have known it would come back to bite them.

Good grief. You believe that a professional — someone whose job includes being a public spokesperson for his company — would consent to talk about an issue in an interview without doing his homework?

Professionals lie all the time. What they try to do is lie without being caught at it. What they don’t do is let their mouths flap without knowing the issues. Sure, it’s natural to forget, but the words are still out there, and if you don’t have time to consolidate the pertinent information, that’s what assistants — or interns — are for.

You can believe what you like, but your excuses are painting ANet as unprofessional doofuses who don’t even care enough about issues important to their customers to educate themselves before addressing those issues.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

But I’m saying that for the dev, it wasn’t the focus. They might not even realize how strong that was, or how important it was to the game design from the perspective of players. Again, when you take the game as a whole, there’s a lot going on. What are the odds your priorities and the devs are identical?

There’s been a huge amount of uproar and “discussion” centered around gear. It started with the, “Nothing to work for, no endgame, no progression” posts last fall, went through a huge outcry about Ascended that prompted an AMA to respond, and has been an ongoing issue since. There were many threads about dailies — which would not have been an issue except for laurels. There was a recent consolidation of threads about Ascended into a 20 page thread that I can no longer find. Since the Ascended weapon pre-patch blog, there have been a lot of pro and con threads/posts.

Statements about the role of gear, exotics being top tier, max stat gear being easy to get and horizontal/cosmetic progression being the motivation to continue playing were important enough to be seen as selling points pre-launch.

If Colin is unaware or only peripherally aware of how important this subject is, then he’s not doing his job as Game Director. Suggesting that the Game Director is not aware of the details surrounding a controversial issue that is dividing community opinion is either disingenuous or insulting to his professionalism.

I’m not talking about aware now. I’m talking about aware when he first spoke those words. Those threads weren’t around then. You’re comparing something he said way pre launch to something that is now occurring post launch.

People simply aren’t forgiving.

There’s not a person here who hasn’t said something that hasn’t been misunderstood, or hasn’t changed their mind or hasn’t forgotten something they’ve said months later. Not one person.

But everyone is willing to point a finger and say he lied. He’s a liar. Well, he might well be a liar. And he might not be. The direction of the game definitely did change, but how strongly that direction was etched into the minds of the devs…that’s not clear. For all we know there was wild debating behind the scenes.

I never attribute to malice something that can be explained by lack of realization or coordination or focus. They’re all problems. But one of those problems is malicious and intentional.

Anet lacks focus and they’re terribad at communication, but that’s not quite the same as lying. And if they were going to change things, there was no real reason to say that in the first place. They would have known it would come back to bite them.

Good grief. You believe that a professional — someone whose job includes being a public spokesperson for his company — would consent to talk about an issue in an interview without doing his homework?

Professionals lie all the time. What they try to do is lie without being caught at it. What they don’t do is let their mouths flap without knowing the issues. Sure, it’s natural to forget, but the words are still out there, and if you don’t have time to consolidate the pertinent information, that’s what assistants — or interns — are for.

You can believe what you like, but your excuses are painting ANet as unprofessional doofuses who don’t even care enough about issues important to their customers to educate themselves before addressing those issues.

I think you missed the point.

“People simply aren’t forgiving.”

And Vayne is completely right. Professionals follow through with their bosses commands. No one ever looks at Colin’s perspective, they just spend hours calling him a liar. Did Colin decide that GW2 wasn’t making enough possible money and it needed to be changed? We don’t know, nor will we ever know who decided that, but people still decide to personally attack him and expect he’d be a rubber band and come back every day for abuse? That goes for all GW2 staff, the forum is toxic from people who are stonewalled into believing their own opinions and attack even fellow players for straying from THEIR path.

A professional stands strong publicly no matter the possible duress and the staff has done that in amazing fashion. You can believe what you like, but you’re painting a very detailed picture of why GW2 player base needs to rethink attacking one man is going to solve not only a game issue, but a community issue.

Cloud.7613:

I think you missed the point.

“People simply aren’t forgiving.”

And Vayne is completely right. Professionals follow through with their bosses commands. No one ever looks at Colin’s perspective, they just spend hours calling him a liar. Did Colin decide that GW2 wasn’t making enough possible money and it needed to be changed? We don’t know, nor will we ever know who decided that, but people still decide to personally attack him and expect he’d be a rubber band and come back every day for abuse? That goes for all GW2 staff, the forum is toxic from people who are stonewalled into believing their own opinions and attack even fellow players for straying from THEIR path.

A professional stands strong publicly no matter the possible duress and the staff has done that in amazing fashion. You can believe what you like, but you’re painting a very detailed picture of why GW2 player base needs to rethink attacking one man is going to solve not only a game issue, but a community issue.

I would be more forgiving of the company deciding that it needed to change its product, for whatever reason, if it was not attempting to spin the change by claiming that the original design intent used to help sell the product never existed.

Before I learned there would be a gems for gold exchange (which should have turned me off buying the game right away, but I won’t gripe, since I did enjoy it for awhile and still log in to goof off while waiting for something better), I looked forward to a year after launch.

I hoped we’d have real housing, new areas to explore, a new race or two to play, rough edges smoothed out. I’d have happily spent money for an expansion or even two.

This though is not what I wanted. I don’t bother with most seasonal stuff or one time events, it just isn’t fun for me. I made some gold with this last one slaughtering boss mobs in a huge group and that is all it was for me. I’m not at all engaged with the world like I hoped I’d be. I certainly don’t feel the ‘play your way’ philosophy has been adhered to.

shrug Maybe something better is on the horizon, but I don’t think this company will be the ones releasing it. So much wasted potential.