Guild Wars 2

I don’t have any problems myself, but I do understand why there are complaints.

Other players are more used to different set-ups in MMOs. And this game isn’t perfect.

This game actually does a pretty lousy job of explaining the game’s fundamental mechanics like dynamic events or boons/conditions.
(Some players haven’t seen all the neat-o videos explaining the break-the-mold game-design. They just heard it’s good, bought it, and jumped in.)

GW2 has actually lost a lot of players because they were looting around for a quest-giver and the game did nothing to explain how Hearts/DEs were to replace quests.

Many many many MMOs have been designed around the idea that it’s just a quest-grind to the level-cap. Only after you reach there do you join the rest of the player-base in “challenging” content.
And the MMOs that don’t, solely rely on social-mechanics (friendships) or the fun of grinding mobs/quests (basic enjoyment) to keep you enticed.

Understanding people’s preconceptions is important to getting them to like a product, and ANet has yet to do anything to smooth that out IN THE GAME – It’s really all been up to the players to learn/explain from experience.

Most players don’t even know you can type /wiki [keyword(s)] to open the wiki page.
Most players don’t think/want to use an out-of-game database to help.

The game is amazing, but it sucks at introductions.

—

Edit:

I’m not even talking about a “hand-holding” sort of thing, The game doesn’t need to tell you directly how stuff works. You can teach players with very subtle, natural, encounters.

Example:

For the human level1 instance, have centaurs that ignite their weapons and deal burns.
Fire -> Burning condition -> Learned
Have a human NPC in the Inn grant Regeneration and say he/she’s healing you.

Simple things that would make players instantly pick up on game mechanics.

This is a really good game. And it’s a great MMO. That is to say, out of all the MMOs I’ve played, and there have been many, this is closest to the MMO I’d have designed myself, were I more talented. lol

I also agree more could have been done to explain/teach the game to people coming in for the first time. I don’t prefer games that lead you around by the nose, but there should be some sort of optional tutorials for people who need that sort of guidance.

Thank god.. an actual positive thread!

No, the game isn’t perfect, but they’re fixing things all the time. I used to say the same thing that there is nothing to do ‘end game,’ but I agree with the OP that I was wrong on that. The scaling system makes it so I can take my high level character anywhere in game I want and have a good time. I can travel with friends regardless of their level, participate in dynamic events, work toward my daily/monthly, do WvW, complete Jump Puzzles.. there is plenty to do.

Like any game, it’s not perfect, but it’s a very enjoyable game and well worth the money I spent on it. I have tried several MMO’s and I drop most of them very quickly, but this one has actually managed to keep my interest. I’m kind of surprised that the forum is generally so negative with the exception of Legendary stuff, that’s just dumb. If you don’t care about Legendary Weapons, then this game is pretty fun.

Sebalon.5913:

I’ve been playing since August 25, 2012, and to this day I am still amazed every time I log in. I’m posting this thread because I’m tired of seeing all the threads complaining about this or that. Sure, the game isn’t perfect, but what game is?

I’ll never understand those complaining about lack of “end-game” content. You can do whatever you want! And there seems to be practically an unlimited amount of things to do. Also, if you don’t like the gear grind, then don’t do it! I’ve hardly even set foot in fractals, yet I still find ways to enjoy this game. You don’t need the best gear to have fun. If you play the game with this mindset, you may find that your experience completely transforms. Just play the game for fun.

I love the way you think! And im glad you are having fun! =) I think the reason i dont hop on my lvl 80 ranger too often, is because i cant decide what to do, too many choices! But mostly it’s because i dont have any IRL friends playing this, they’re either too busy with jobs/ GF’s, or too addicted to Halo 4. I do have one friend who is semi interested, but he said he would rather wait for TESO And so im stuck trying to find a guildy who isnt obsessed with gear grinding.

Vayne.8563:

…this is closest to the MMO I’d have designed myself, were I more talented. lol

^ A thousand times this.

During my WoW-days, I just had it with the bazillion skills on top of each skill bars, and I also got tired of the mandatory (not really, but you need them to raid!) add-ons. I was dreaming about an MMO where you actually explore the world and see the world live by itself. GW2 comes close to that dream. No static NPCs that says, “Hey! Them bandits are stealing my treasures! Kill ’em and I reward you!” You go kill them bandits, return to get your prize, but still see those bandits raiding the farmer’s house. And the farmer just stands there and offer the same thing to the next adventurer. Basically, he’s a vending machine.

“But what about them hearts?” Well, they’re also vending machines, but you don’t have to be around them and do their bidding (unless it’s your first toon, then go help them for crisssakes!). With my alts, I don’t have to go full-throttle-questing to get to level cap. I just wander around and explore. And if I’m itching for blood, I can queue up for WvW or PvP.

Also, I like that you’re limited to 10 skills, and your play style revolves around those skills. It’s like a trading card game where you need to plan your deck, or like EVE where you need to plan your loadout.

I agree, it’s a great game. Which is why I complain.

Yes, that does make sense. Because you see, as great as it is, it could easily be so much better, and it’s never going to get better if we keep telling the devs that everything’s fine and dandy and perfect when we know it’s not.

There are a multitude of things this game needs to work on. It needs to fix culling. It needs to have a better tutorial system for new players. It needs to stop designing content around OHKO mechanics. It needs to make major bug fixes. It needs to add more horizontal progression and unlockables, and less vertical progression and grind.

Your post illustrates what I think is perhaps the game’s biggest flaw: the people who defend it. It’s okay to defend a game you love, and to this date I’ll defend this game’s good decisions. But I don’t defend bad design and bad decisions. Yet many people in these forums do just that. For example, the notion that you can do “anything you want” is often brought up when people complain about a lack of content, and yet when someone points out the flaws in various pieces of content, the immediate defense is “it’s optional”. Well, you can’t have it both ways. Either the game’s content is all optional (thereby leaving not much of a game left to play, once you beat the personal story), or it’s meant to keep you occupied. In either case, though, some of the game’s problems need fixing, and just ignoring them or saying “it’s optional” isn’t addressing the problem. It’s one thing to defend a game, it’s another thing entirely to defend it blindly, and I don’t encourage the latter.

This is indeed a great game, and because it’s great, we should strive to make sure it only gets better from here. But if we ignore the game’s faults and flaws, the game won’t get better, it’ll get worse.

I just got my first character to lvl 80 last weekend, and am advancing my second now.

What grabs me the most about this game is the artwork, this world is beautiful and very detailed. The art team really outdid themselves on this game. I could and will spend hundreds of hours running around enjoying the art/graphics of all the maps.

I just with the rest of the dev team was of the same level as the art department there are many bugs and the devs response seems to be either indifference or working as intended even when its not working as intended and is in direct contradiction to their own patch notes.

But i think that eventually most of the bugs will be worked out.

Sebalon.5913:

I’ve been playing since August 25, 2012, and to this day I am still amazed every time I log in. I’m posting this thread because I’m tired of seeing all the threads complaining about this or that. Sure, the game isn’t perfect, but what game is? <snip>

There doesn’t need to be a perfect game to point out flaws or mistakes in a current one. I don’t know why people think that?

You can’t clean yourself in others filth.

critickitten.1498:

Your post illustrates what I think is perhaps the game’s biggest flaw: the people who defend it. It’s okay to defend a game you love, and to this date I’ll defend this game’s good decisions. But I don’t defend bad design and bad decisions. Yet many people in these forums do just that. For example, the notion that you can do “anything you want” is often brought up when people complain about a lack of content, and yet when someone points out the flaws in various pieces of content, the immediate defense is “it’s optional”. Well, you can’t have it both ways. Either the game’s content is all optional (thereby leaving not much of a game left to play, once you beat the personal story), or it’s meant to keep you occupied. In either case, though, some of the game’s problems need fixing, and just ignoring them or saying “it’s optional” isn’t addressing the problem. It’s one thing to defend a game, it’s another thing entirely to defend it blindly, and I don’t encourage the latter.

It’s ok for the whole game to be optional. That’s the point. GW2 isnt sandboxy enough for me, but the freedom you have in choosing what content to enjoy is a good thing.

There’s a difference between defending bad design, versus pointing out that something is just a difference of opinion/preference. (such as my previous point.)

Ultimately everyone has different notions of what the game should be, and we are all QQing on the forums to tug ANet in different directions. And there’s a few who like things just as they are, and they’re the ones trying to keep things the same.

There’s also the natural reaction of people to argue against extreme whining. People who complain often come to the forums with the worst kind of self-righteous, self-entitled, tunnel-vision tone. In such cases, even people who kinda agree with them, tend to argue or avoid them.

There’s plenty of things ANet can improve about GW2. But many of the complaints people have are just a matter of preference. There are valid gameplay, design or business reasons for each point of view.

GW2 is the only mmorpg I call art and the only mmorpg that has successfully kept my attention from lvl 1 to 80. In all other mmorpgs I got so bored by the time I reached mid levels that I stopped playing. This is one of those rare games in which you can’t say “wait until you’re max lvl to have fun”. It happens at the start, and depending on the person, it never ends.

Rieselle.5079:

It’s ok for the whole game to be optional. That’s the point. GW2 isnt sandboxy enough for me, but the freedom you have in choosing what content to enjoy is a good thing.

Was somewhat in agreement with all except this first part.

Because it’s not okay for people to claim that everything is “optional” but then to also say that the game has a significant depth of content. If all of that content is “optional” and thus doesn’t need to be fixed (which, btw, is bad logic: a broken feature should be fixed whether it’s optional or not), then the end result is that there’s no game left to play once you max your level. But then when you point out how you have nothing to do except this “optional” content, their only reply is to all of these “optional” bits of content that you were told you didn’t have to do, and to remind you to “play as you want”. And so the circular logic continues to circle. It’s all “optional” so you don’t have to do it, but it’s all that the game has left to do once you max your level out. So it’s either play all this “optional” content that may be running at sub-optimal status, or just quit.

As to the rest: not everything boils down to a matter of opinion. For example, there are folks on this forum who have defended the game’s problems with culling as a “legitimate strategy” even though the devs themselves have said that it’s an unintended glitch in the way graphics are rendered. I’m pretty sure that in that particular debate, there’s only one right point of view. But this is what I’m talking about: even the devs’ own words, in many cases, is not enough to sway the minds of some of this game’s vehement defenders, who will defend outright broken parts of the game as “fine” when no one, least of all the devs, think it’s “fine” as is.

DreamOfACure.4382:

This game actually does a pretty lousy job of explaining the game’s fundamental mechanics like dynamic events or boons/conditions.
GW2 has actually lost a lot of players because they were looting around for a quest-giver and the game did nothing to explain how Hearts/DEs were to replace quests.

Actually in my opinion GW2 is the most noob friendly game, because compared to some other MMOs it’s pretty easy to figure out.
Both me and my boyfriend came from the WoW crowd, without watching any videos and figured it out for ourselves.

critickitten.1498:

Because it’s not okay for people to claim that everything is “optional” but then to also say that the game has a significant depth of content. If all of that content is “optional” and thus doesn’t need to be fixed (which, btw, is bad logic: a broken feature should be fixed whether it’s optional or not), then the end result is that there’s no game left to play once you max your level.

optional means you are not forced to do it, not that the content is not there. The same way that I can’t claim that Skyrim has no side quests just because I’m not forced to do them, the same way that I can’t claim that WoW has no battlegrounds, because I’m not forced to participate in it.

Sebalon.5913:

I’ve been playing since August 25, 2012, and to this day I am still amazed every time I log in. I’m posting this thread because I’m tired of seeing all the threads complaining about this or that. Sure, the game isn’t perfect, but what game is?

I’ll never understand those complaining about lack of “end-game” content. You can do whatever you want! And there seems to be practically an unlimited amount of things to do. Also, if you don’t like the gear grind, then don’t do it! I’ve hardly even set foot in fractals, yet I still find ways to enjoy this game. You don’t need the best gear to have fun. If you play the game with this mindset, you may find that your experience completely transforms. Just play the game for fun.

What is so Amazing ?

• grinding linear, never changing Dungeons ?
• fighting Invisible people in WvW ?
• being stormed by 50 people without ever realizing it ?
• unimportant sPvP (you just fight and that’s it, not achieving anything for PvE/WvW)
• Exploring Maps pass lvl 80 for no real Rewards
• Finishing boring story that is different for everyone …but same for everybody pass lvl 30 XD
• Farming for Legendary ….so that you have a weapon that glows ????

I made my Ele and Thief ….both lvl 80 full exotics. ..together 71% map completion …

I could go for 100% … but why ?
I could go to do some more WvW … but why ?
I could train SPvP more …but why ?

I can play for 2 years more ..and nothing will ever change, I will stay exactly strong as I am now …

I (and other ~70% of community) have no reason to play this game past lvl 80 Exotics…

Lillian, you’re entitled to your opinion about the game and that’s fine. Despite the hours you’ve put into it you may even be able to get a refund if you submit the request.

That said:

I (and other ~70% of community) have no reason to play this game past lvl 80 Exotics…

I don’t think it’s a good idea to paint with such a broad brush. Where did you get that number?

Lillian Wandom Hale.7102:

Sebalon.5913:

I’ve been playing since August 25, 2012, and to this day I am still amazed every time I log in. I’m posting this thread because I’m tired of seeing all the threads complaining about this or that. Sure, the game isn’t perfect, but what game is?

I’ll never understand those complaining about lack of “end-game” content. You can do whatever you want! And there seems to be practically an unlimited amount of things to do. Also, if you don’t like the gear grind, then don’t do it! I’ve hardly even set foot in fractals, yet I still find ways to enjoy this game. You don’t need the best gear to have fun. If you play the game with this mindset, you may find that your experience completely transforms. Just play the game for fun.

What is so Amazing ?

• grinding linear, never changing Dungeons ?
• fighting Invisible people in WvW ?
• being stormed by 50 people without ever realizing it ?
• unimportant sPvP (you just fight and that’s it, not achieving anything for PvE/WvW)
• Exploring Maps pass lvl 80 for no real Rewards
• Finishing boring story that is different for everyone …but same for everybody pass lvl 30 XD
• Farming for Legendary ….so that you have a weapon that glows ????

I made my Ele and Thief ….both lvl 80 full exotics. ..together 71% map completion …

I could go for 100% … but why ?
I could go to do some more WvW … but why ?
I could train SPvP more …but why ?

I can play for 2 years more ..and nothing will ever change, I will stay exactly strong as I am now …

I (and other ~70% of community) have no reason to play this game past lvl 80 Exotics…

1. This game has more dungeon paths than any other MMO and yet you complain
2. AoEs combat invisibility nicely
3. Yes WvW is a zerg (ahem it’s an MMO you should expect zergs to be somewhere), PvP is a mode free from them though
4. When it comes to PVE and PvP – PvP gives you dyes. Though I agree that there’s a lack of incentive to play it.
5. maps starting from 60-70 to 80+ give you 2 to 3 exotics upon completion. If any of them has the divinity rune in it, salvage, get ectos, sell the rune for 8G. If they don’t you can try your hand at mystic forge for a chance of something more expensive or you can outright sell them. Wouldn’t say that it’s not rewarding.
6. The story pretty much collides into the same point at level 30 when you have to pick your order, but from here on (except for the kill the dragon attacking LA missions) you have 2 to 3 choices what mission to do next after you completed one. And it does impact the further missions (for example, I decided to save the skritt instead of the quaggan and I found the skritt helping me to escape in a story mission 20 levels higher than that one). Yes, the story gets tedious, but it’s because how the missions are. The story in itself is pretty not bad and certainly does not lack choices.
7. People want to get a legendary to show their investment into the game. To have a different skin to show off.
8. It’s nice for you to pull imaginary numbers. Want to back them up?
What do you do in an MMO after you get the highest tier gear you ran so many raids for? You’re essentially asking what is the point of playing the game if you can’t one hit kill a noob that never ran a raid. If that is the only thing you want to do in an MMO then this game is not your cup of tea.

DreamOfACure.4382:

I don’t have any problems myself, but I do understand.

Other players are more used to different set-ups in MMOs. And this game isn’t perfect.

This game actually does a pretty lousy job of explaining the game’s fundamental mechanics like dynamic events or boons/conditions.
(Some players haven’t seen all the neat-o videos explaining the break-the-mold game-design. They just heard it’s good, bought it, and jumped in.)

GW2 has actually lost a lot of players because they were looting around for a quest-giver and the game did nothing to explain how Hearts/DEs were to replace quests.

Many many many MMOs have been designed around the idea that it’s just a quest-grind to the level-cap. Only after you reach there do you join the rest of the player-base in “challenging” content.
And the MMOs that don’t, solely rely on social-mechanics (friendships) or the fun of grinding mobs/quests (basic enjoyment) to keep you enticed.

Understanding people’s preconceptions is important to getting them to like a product, and ANet has yet to do anything to smooth that out IN THE GAME – It’s really all been up to the players to learn/explain from experience.

Most players don’t even know you can type /wiki [keyword(s)] to open the wiki page.
Most players don’t think/want to use an out-of-game database to help.

The game is amazing, but it sucks at introductions.

Agreed. I seriously think the game would have alot more active players if this had been spot on at launch.

Anet should really take the time to implement a decent new player experience in the coming months. Once we have more and more features (guild missions and features like this) alot of players are going to come back and introduce new friends ect.

If the NPE isnt up to scratch, players will come and leave just as rapidly as the first month after launch.

The good news is its not end days yet. In fact, even most highly successful MMOs have took about a year or two to even consider fixing the starter experience. And couple that with the fact that the game is buy to play – it means most players who have quit will always take a second look when something looks like it has improved drastically.

Hawkian.6580:

Lillian, you’re entitled to your opinion about the game and that’s fine. Despite the hours you’ve put into it you may even be able to get a refund if you submit the request.

That said:

I (and other ~70% of community) have no reason to play this game past lvl 80 Exotics…

I don’t think it’s a good idea to paint with such a broad brush. Where did you get that number?

79% of statistics are made up on the spot. LOL.

Lillian Wandom Hale.7102:

I can play for 2 years more ..and nothing will ever change, I will stay exactly strong as I am now …

You can play any other MMO for 2 years, and do raids and dungeons for better loot so your character constantly improves … and in the end it’s still just completely meaningless numbers, because in those games your enemies also get stronger, so your improvements really mean absolutely nothing.

You either enjoy playing the game, right here and now, or you don’t. Playing for the reward of bigger numbers is a silly trick. Once you’ve seen through it it stops working. That’s why so many people grow tired of the raid grind. It promises a reward that isn’t real.

Lillian Wandom Hale.7102:

• grinding linear, never changing Dungeons ?
• fighting Invisible people in WvW ?
• being stormed by 50 people without ever realizing it ?
• unimportant sPvP (you just fight and that’s it, not achieving anything for PvE/WvW)
• Exploring Maps pass lvl 80 for no real Rewards
• Finishing boring story that is different for everyone …but same for everybody pass lvl 30 XD
• Farming for Legendary ….so that you have a weapon that glows ????

I made my Ele and Thief ….both lvl 80 full exotics. ..together 71% map completion …

I could go for 100% … but why ?
I could go to do some more WvW … but why ?
I could train SPvP more …but why ?

I can play for 2 years more ..and nothing will ever change, I will stay exactly strong as I am now …

I (and other ~70% of community) have no reason to play this game past lvl 80 Exotics…

• GW2 has only done what every other MMO developer has done: Instead of adding dynamic dungeons, add more dungeons. Though GW2 at least gives the illusion of being dynamic with its “multiple paths” model. Though this does make the dungeons look like kitten compared to the dynamic event system in the open world.

• This is a known bug and Arenanet has expressly stated they are working to fix it. Yes, it’s annoying, but it will likely be fixed in the future.

• I’m going to assume this is tying in to the above statement. In which case, would you be any better off if you could see all 50 people? Either way, you’re dead.

• They’re about to improve this quite a bit with a ranking system and dueling system. If you want PvP that means something in the greater scheme of things, that’s what WvWvW is for.

• I think the gift of exploration is the biggest incentive. It also gives plenty of mats for levelling crafting. Exploring still gives money/karma/xp like it always has. There’s plenty of incentives, so what exactly are you looking for?

• The story only gets boring towards the end, where a bunch of npcs die that I’ve never met before, and apparently am supposed to care about. Though yea, Arenanet could have stepped up their game on this one.

• Some people would in fact farm forever for a cool-looking weapon, some people wouldn’t. You and I both wouldn’t. It’s just a matter of opinion on this one.

Lillian Wandom Hale.7102:

I could go for 100% … but why ?
I could go to do some more WvW … but why ?
I could train SPvP more …but why ?

I can play for 2 years more ..and nothing will ever change, I will stay exactly strong as I am now …

I (and other ~70% of community) have no reason to play this game past lvl 80 Exotics…

This attitude about games just makes me sad.

Maybe it’s because I grew up playing games when games were still new (e.g. from around 1985 to present). Games didn’t used to be about getting the shinies or about doing things because the game gave you some reward like an achievement or something shiny. Games were about fun and/or challenge (often you made your own challenges).

You sound like the only reason you have to play games is to get some payout of pixels and if there is no pixel jackpot to be had you can’t see the purpose in a video game.

It’s always seemed obvious to me that Anet designs games based on old-school video game mentality (hint, GW1 is the same way, there’s tons to do but almost none of it gets you prettier pixels). The purpose of games is the journey and the experiences you have while play. The purpose is the fun of playing. Designing a game around destinations is actually bad design. It just fosters the mentality that everything before the destination is a waste of time and very often just a pain in the kitten you wish didn’t exist (e.g. WoW leveling that everyone just views as a giant time sink they wish would just go away so they could play end-game only).

I know I’ll probably never change your mind but the point I’m trying to get at (and the OP seems to be as well) is that the problem isn’t with the game. The problem is with you and your preoccupation with collecting pixels and skipping as much of the game as you can in your pursuit of pixels. If that’s all games are to you then that’s fine. There are games for you, go play one.

If you ever decide you want to play a game for the sake of playing a game and, you know, have fun doing it I’m sure GW2 will still be here waiting for you to come have fun.

Unspecified.9142:

Lillian Wandom Hale.7102:

I could go for 100% … but why ?
I could go to do some more WvW … but why ?
I could train SPvP more …but why ?

I can play for 2 years more ..and nothing will ever change, I will stay exactly strong as I am now …

I (and other ~70% of community) have no reason to play this game past lvl 80 Exotics…

This attitude about games just makes me sad.

Maybe it’s because I grew up playing games when games were still new (e.g. from around 1985 to present). Games didn’t used to be about getting the shinies or about doing things because the game gave you some reward like an achievement or something shiny. Games were about fun and/or challenge (often you made your own challenges).

You sound like the only reason you have to play games is to get some payout of pixels and if there is no pixel jackpot to be had you can’t see the purpose in a video game.

It’s always seemed obvious to me that Anet designs games based on old-school video game mentality (hint, GW1 is the same way, there’s tons to do but almost none of it gets you prettier pixels). The purpose of games is the journey and the experiences you have while play. The purpose is the fun of playing. Designing a game around destinations is actually bad design. It just fosters the mentality that everything before the destination is a waste of time and very often just a pain in the kitten you wish didn’t exist (e.g. WoW leveling that everyone just views as a giant time sink they wish would just go away so they could play end-game only).

I know I’ll probably never change your mind but the point I’m trying to get at (and the OP seems to be as well) is that the problem isn’t with the game. The problem is with you and your preoccupation with collecting pixels and skipping as much of the game as you can in your pursuit of pixels. If that’s all games are to you then that’s fine. There are games for you, go play one.

If you ever decide you want to play a game for the sake of playing a game and, you know, have fun doing it I’m sure GW2 will still be here waiting for you to come have fun.

I agree. They once made maintream games without achievements, prestige, unlocks and ranks.

How could we even play games back then? What was the point?!

This modern “musthaverewards”-mentality towards gaming is just toxic to the community and developers.

Mirta.5029:

DreamOfACure.4382:

This game actually does a pretty lousy job of explaining the game’s fundamental mechanics like dynamic events or boons/conditions.
GW2 has actually lost a lot of players because they were looting around for a quest-giver and the game did nothing to explain how Hearts/DEs were to replace quests.

Actually in my opinion GW2 is the most noob friendly game, because compared to some other MMOs it’s pretty easy to figure out.
Both me and my boyfriend came from the WoW crowd, without watching any videos and figured it out for ourselves.

WoW has become immensely more user friendly, and easy to learn since it’s initial launch. What this game really lacks aside from a proper introduction to the game, is intuitive tooltips on skills. Some are outright wrong, some are vague.

A vast amount of people don’t know about the 5 target limit on general AOE’s, and unlimited target limit on line aoe’s, with the exception of line of Warding, only being capable of stopping 5 people at once, but as a combo field it will effect infinite.

Combos are a wonderful thing, but they need to be explained better, or even have a chart accessible in game for newer people to reference.

Information is a very wonderful thing. People like to have it on hand, instead of referencing a wiki that may or may not be correct.

At least GW2 has made some strides over the original. I don’t think I could have played Guild Wars 1 without a second screen with the wiki open at the same time.

DreamOfACure.4382:

I don’t have any problems myself, but I do understand.

Other players are more used to different set-ups in MMOs. And this game isn’t perfect.

This game actually does a pretty lousy job of explaining the game’s fundamental mechanics like dynamic events or boons/conditions.
(Some players haven’t seen all the neat-o videos explaining the break-the-mold game-design. They just heard it’s good, bought it, and jumped in.)

GW2 has actually lost a lot of players because they were looting around for a quest-giver and the game did nothing to explain how Hearts/DEs were to replace quests.

Many many many MMOs have been designed around the idea that it’s just a quest-grind to the level-cap. Only after you reach there do you join the rest of the player-base in “challenging” content.
And the MMOs that don’t, solely rely on social-mechanics (friendships) or the fun of grinding mobs/quests (basic enjoyment) to keep you enticed.

Understanding people’s preconceptions is important to getting them to like a product, and ANet has yet to do anything to smooth that out IN THE GAME – It’s really all been up to the players to learn/explain from experience.

Most players don’t even know you can type /wiki [keyword(s)] to open the wiki page.
Most players don’t think/want to use an out-of-game database to help.

The game is amazing, but it sucks at introductions.

I really hate when somebody actually opens a positive thread once in a year and instantly there’s somebody trolling in to ruin it with negativity.

PS: if you don’t get the concept of hearts and DEs within a few minutes, you’d probably be better off playing tetris. Even my girlfriend understood this instantly, and she’s below casual. The game doesn’t explain everything – it lets you explore. Which is a major part of GW2. Everything else is in the wiki, which is tightly integrated for a reason.

Unspecified.9142:

Lillian Wandom Hale.7102:

I could go for 100% … but why ?
I could go to do some more WvW … but why ?
I could train SPvP more …but why ?

I can play for 2 years more ..and nothing will ever change, I will stay exactly strong as I am now …

I (and other ~70% of community) have no reason to play this game past lvl 80 Exotics…

This attitude about games just makes me sad.

Maybe it’s because I grew up playing games when games were still new (e.g. from around 1985 to present). Games didn’t used to be about getting the shinies or about doing things because the game gave you some reward like an achievement or something shiny. Games were about fun and/or challenge (often you made your own challenges).

You sound like the only reason you have to play games is to get some payout of pixels and if there is no pixel jackpot to be had you can’t see the purpose in a video game.

It’s always seemed obvious to me that Anet designs games based on old-school video game mentality (hint, GW1 is the same way, there’s tons to do but almost none of it gets you prettier pixels). The purpose of games is the journey and the experiences you have while play. The purpose is the fun of playing. Designing a game around destinations is actually bad design. It just fosters the mentality that everything before the destination is a waste of time and very often just a pain in the kitten you wish didn’t exist (e.g. WoW leveling that everyone just views as a giant time sink they wish would just go away so they could play end-game only).

I know I’ll probably never change your mind but the point I’m trying to get at (and the OP seems to be as well) is that the problem isn’t with the game. The problem is with you and your preoccupation with collecting pixels and skipping as much of the game as you can in your pursuit of pixels. If that’s all games are to you then that’s fine. There are games for you, go play one.

If you ever decide you want to play a game for the sake of playing a game and, you know, have fun doing it I’m sure GW2 will still be here waiting for you to come have fun.

I wholeheartedly agree, this also makes me sad and I feel the current generation of gamers has a really strange perception of “fun” in games. That’s why they make games like Counter-Strike Global Offensive, with screenfilling rewards popping up all the time, the gameplay is still exactly the same as a decade ago though.

Unspecified.9142:

Lillian Wandom Hale.7102:

I could go for 100% … but why ?
I could go to do some more WvW … but why ?
I could train SPvP more …but why ?

I can play for 2 years more ..and nothing will ever change, I will stay exactly strong as I am now …

I (and other ~70% of community) have no reason to play this game past lvl 80 Exotics…

This attitude about games just makes me sad.

Maybe it’s because I grew up playing games when games were still new (e.g. from around 1985 to present). Games didn’t used to be about getting the shinies or about doing things because the game gave you some reward like an achievement or something shiny. Games were about fun and/or challenge (often you made your own challenges).

You sound like the only reason you have to play games is to get some payout of pixels and if there is no pixel jackpot to be had you can’t see the purpose in a video game.

It’s always seemed obvious to me that Anet designs games based on old-school video game mentality (hint, GW1 is the same way, there’s tons to do but almost none of it gets you prettier pixels). The purpose of games is the journey and the experiences you have while play. The purpose is the fun of playing. Designing a game around destinations is actually bad design. It just fosters the mentality that everything before the destination is a waste of time and very often just a pain in the kitten you wish didn’t exist (e.g. WoW leveling that everyone just views as a giant time sink they wish would just go away so they could play end-game only).

I know I’ll probably never change your mind but the point I’m trying to get at (and the OP seems to be as well) is that the problem isn’t with the game. The problem is with you and your preoccupation with collecting pixels and skipping as much of the game as you can in your pursuit of pixels. If that’s all games are to you then that’s fine. There are games for you, go play one.

If you ever decide you want to play a game for the sake of playing a game and, you know, have fun doing it I’m sure GW2 will still be here waiting for you to come have fun.

This. Bad RNG doesn’t affect my fun. Ascended stats don’t affect my fun. Lack of horizontal goals don’t affect my fun. Grindy goals don’t affect my fun.

I get my fun from actively playing the game, not the rewards for playing the game.

Heh, I have a valid complaint…
Theres not enough hours in the day to play! D=

Started playing in Beta, still holds my interest for hours on end, every day.

It seems pretty shallow to me to complain about lack of “tutorials”.
Why can’t you just discover things yourself instead of being spoonfed and handheld immediately?

lol flatterer make me sick

You’re right. This game is amazing. I am simply amazed at how many completed achievements I am quite possibly going to be required to redo if I want everything I once had back again.

Agreed! Got 2 80’s and I dont get bored… WVW, Dungeons, FotM, exploration, jp’s, spvp, helping guildies..

DreamOfACure.4382:

GW2 has actually lost a lot of players because they were looting around for a quest-giver and the game did nothing to explain how Hearts/DEs were to replace quests.

I had to laugh at that! I can’t imaging paying $60 for a game and quitting before realizing how to play… Pretty sure that hasn’t happened even once.

Lillian Wandom Hale.7102:

Take 2 games, GW2 and LoL ….they are played differently …but are still competitive MMO’s

I don’t ask to be a GOD to a newbie …

but, in the end when I play for (later on) even 2 years …. and when I come across someone who’s only been playing for 2 months … is it that BAD to expect that I will be rewarded with some type of bigger strength then he is ???
Yes, I WILL have more experience…but come on guys ..GW2 isn’t that hard to understand …he’ll also know what to do and just kill me …a 2 year veteran ….

1. LoL is not classified as an MMORPG. It’s a MMO battle arena. A different genre. It’s the same as it is unfair to compare an RPG to an MMORPG.
2. This game is about skill. If you’re not good at playing the game you should not be rewarded with invincibility just for putting in a lot of time. Want that? Go to WoW. It will suit your needs better. I put in 5 months. If I’ll get killed by a fresh out 80, fair enough. He is more skilled than me. I can learn, tweak my build and master it even better.

play GW2 for a month, you will have lvl 80 with Exotic armor/weapon and Ascended Rings

play GW for a year ….your sword will glow …. and you can be pwned by someone who plays it for a month because you’re on equal grounds

This is perfect.

Hawkian.6580:

play GW2 for a month, you will have lvl 80 with Exotic armor/weapon and Ascended Rings

play GW for a year ….your sword will glow …. and you can be pwned by someone who plays it for a month because you’re on equal grounds

This is perfect.

I’m guessing this is coming from someone who likes getting uber loot and ganking lowbies that can’t fight back. Or if not that, you people are one of those players that think gear should always win over skill. This is one of the features Anet included on purpose. It was like this in GW, and it should be in this game. Gear should never, ever give any advantage in a game that seeks to be competitive on any level.

Honestly, I don’t understand the point of both this thread, and of the responses which challenge it…

Lillian Wandom Hale.7102:

I could go for 100% … but why ?
I could go to do some more WvW … but why ?
I could train SPvP more …but why ?

Addressing your ‘but why?’, I’ll leave it to the famous words of George Mallroy: “Because it’s there”, mind you I’m not sure if you’d actually be able to grasp the meaning but I think it pretty much answers your question(s).

Sebalon.5913:

Just play the game for fun.

The problem with statements like this is that “fun” is a word whose definition differs for different people. You make the mistake of assuming that what YOU consider to be fun, others will find to be the same. If, by a person’s definition, the “fun” they’re having ends at some point, that does not mean that they are stupid people or that they are “doing it wrong.” It simply means that they have valid reasons for why their fun has ended and yours has not.

It’s great that you’re still having fun, but your experience does not invalidate that of other players that may have finished what they enjoy doing and are doing something else now.

If you don’t like reading opinions that differ than yours, well, don’t go into threads that look like they are making suggestions for improving the game or asking for changes they’d like to see.

After all, no one’s “forcing” you to read these kinds of posts. Reading posts is, after all, completely “optional.”

I’ve played GW for almost 2 months. I’ve quit when I’ve reached LV 80. The game is very good, I loved the personal storyline (that’s the 2nd main reason I went all the way to LV 80, the main reason being: it’s easy as **** to level)

But some things are just broken:

- The dynamic level adjustment thing:
It’s supposed to make you feel comfortable when visiting low level areas. But you get low level loot mixed with high level ones. It should always give loot based on your level. There was this time I was at centaurs HQ doing some random DE then I got 3 rare equips, when I went to salvage them for Glob of Ectoplasms, I noticed all of them were lv 40ish. That’s so dang frustrating !!! Specially because I got some masterwork lv 80 too, which are equally good for nothing. I wanted to go Orr all the way but then 10 minutes later the anti bot loot stuff are triggered thus screwing my plan to grind for equips/loots.

- The social aspect is non existent:
People are BUSY in this game. They don’t seem to have free time. And when guildies talk to you, they want you to do fractals or dungeons. This can be good, but after some days in this same pace, you’ll get tired easily. It’s been some years I’ve played a MMO, but the last one I played, there was this free time you’d just be around in the city chatting, trolling noobs, etc.. it was fun. There was even mIRC and in game chat. Today people are all in Ventrillo and kitten .. no fun (I know this is not GW fault but…)

- PVP and WvW:
PVP in RPG’s is one of those things that will never be true fun imo. When I wanna test my skills against another player, I play a game which requires my most basic skills (reflexes, accuracy, etc), and for that I play CoD or Battlefield. RPG’s requires much more knowledge of the game mechanics then skill. The learning curve is still way lengthier then most genres, because there’s tons of status and skills from every class I must know in order to master offensive and defensive tactics. Oh yeah, then there’s WvW. I’ve done some once, with guild. Group PVE, really ? No fun, sorry.

- To grind or not to grind:
The game has the infame anti-grind script. Anet clearly want’s us to not grind, while giving you some option if you really want to. Let’s say I’m not much of a grind person, I got a life, gf and work (the default excuse for every non-grind player). Well, If I want good equips, I must do dungeons. But I’ll have to still take some irl luck into account. I think they should make the grind effort worth at 100% rate. As in, you grind = you win (since Anet want to be non grind). For example, you got games like Disgaea. They’ve put that process which takes 300 hours to get your character to a state of ultimate force class. But YOU WILL get there, its guaranteed as long as you do the whole thing. Here you do dungeons but the reward is not always there (well, they are but rarely are something you need, so you always have to rely on stupid TP), even thought it’s the only way (or the most reasonable way) you can get to be true elite. The should make all rewards work like laureus: a sure reward to choose from a list, stuff like that.

So, yea .. good game but maybe still not there yet for me

Lillian Wandom Hale.7102:

I could go for 100% … but why ?
I could go to do some more WvW … but why ?
I could train SPvP more …but why ?

You play videogames to kill time, have fun, whatever.
If you find this game fills none of the aforementioned purposes to you then move to another game.
This game, just like every other, cannot fit every single person’s tastes.

I never understand people who seem to like nothing of GW2 yet they come to this forum everyday hoping Anet basically deletes the entire game and rewrites it basing on that person’s likings… It is a quite absurd idea.
Your 60 bucks aren’t worth more than my 60 bucks, or the 60 bucks of the 3 millions that swarm the game as we speak.

Ultimately, I believe the longevity of MMOs comes from friendships you build in the game – or RL friendships you play the game with.
Even a childs game like WoW can be fun if played with friends.

Red Falcon.8257:

It seems pretty shallow to me to complain about lack of “tutorials”.
Why can’t you just discover things yourself instead of being spoonfed and handheld immediately?

This game is wonderful, but even GW1 had some nice tutorials (yep, “this isn’t GW1”, but it does deserve a similar level of polish and user-friendliness, especially considering many of the people in charge were behind GW1). It feels as if they depend too much on the web-almost like if they said “let them look for all the info they need on the web/wiki.” It’s not about being spoonfed, but about people having a better idea about how certain mechanics work.

For instance, the game teases you into playing solo most of the PvE game, but does have areas that all of the sudden almost require to group up. It is one of the reasons why some still hate Orr-the difficulty curve all of the sudden can go way up for certain players and/or Professions.

Difficult personal storyline missions should have hints for people to group up (I realize they are all not that difficult, but for some players/professions some can be a bit painful.)

Not enough is explained in-game about a few abilities, way some combos work, and some important equipment/gear issues (the way Sigils work, vague skills descriptions, etc.)

Of course, over time we all are able to learn the mechanics on our own, even without the help of tutorials, but can you imagine if we didn’t have access to wikis/databases/forums? Just for the sake of user-friendliness, they should consider adding a few tutorials/better explanations for the newcomers, IMHO-this initial “handhelding” will come a long way in attracting new players to the game, believe it or not.

I am not complaining, though; just suggesting that as far as tutorials go, that area could be vastly improved for the overall benefit of the game.

Winfernal.9208:

Unspecified.9142:

I know I’ll probably never change your mind but the point I’m trying to get at (and the OP seems to be as well) is that the problem isn’t with the game. The problem is with you and your preoccupation with collecting pixels and skipping as much of the game as you can in your pursuit of pixels. If that’s all games are to you then that’s fine. There are games for you, go play one.

If you ever decide you want to play a game for the sake of playing a game and, you know, have fun doing it I’m sure GW2 will still be here waiting for you to come have fun.

I agree. They once made maintream games without achievements, prestige, unlocks and ranks.

How could we even play games back then? What was the point?!

This modern “musthaverewards”-mentality towards gaming is just toxic to the community and developers.

I came across an interesting study on overjustification recently. It may be that by adding a lot of “expected rewards” to games has actually caused folks to enjoy them less. The change in the games might have caused the change in the attitude, and not the other way around.

I don’t think there’s much a single game can do about it though. Some of the folks playing MMOs have already had their “intrinsic motivation” lessened, so I think that any MMO will have a pretty short shelf-life for them. I think that’s part of the reason a lot of MMOs can’t command a monthly subscription anymore – any company with less resources than Blizzard can’t add rewards fast enough to keep people paying. Even Blizzard has seen its subscriber base dip.

I think that the folks that are complaining about the end game are technically correct when they say that there is no reason for them to play after hitting 80 and getting all their exotics. There’s no reason for me to discover every single recipe in the game on my chef, but I did it anyhow and had fun doing it. There’s no reason for one of my guild mates to try to level a pacifist character to 80 without killing anything, but I’m sure they’ll have fun at least giving it a go.

If you can’t make up your own reason to play once you’ve finished the goals that have been set, you should move on to another game that will engage you. There’s nothing wrong with switching games and there’s nothing wrong with a game just because you’ve done everything it has to offer that you wanted to do.

Mirta.5029:

optional means you are not forced to do it, not that the content is not there. The same way that I can’t claim that Skyrim has no side quests just because I’m not forced to do them, the same way that I can’t claim that WoW has no battlegrounds, because I’m not forced to participate in it.

And I agree.

So now let’s stop claiming that “optional” is a valid excuse for not making content work properly.

Because right now, any time anyone asks to change ANYTHING, the #1 guaranteed response is “it’s optional so it’s fine as it is”.

Living is “optional.”

Does that mean we should all go off ourselves and solve the overpopulation problem?

I think not.

Stupid arguments are stupid.

Lillian Wandom Hale.7102:

Sebalon.5913:

I’ve been playing since August 25, 2012, and to this day I am still amazed every time I log in. I’m posting this thread because I’m tired of seeing all the threads complaining about this or that. Sure, the game isn’t perfect, but what game is?

I’ll never understand those complaining about lack of “end-game” content. You can do whatever you want! And there seems to be practically an unlimited amount of things to do. Also, if you don’t like the gear grind, then don’t do it! I’ve hardly even set foot in fractals, yet I still find ways to enjoy this game. You don’t need the best gear to have fun. If you play the game with this mindset, you may find that your experience completely transforms. Just play the game for fun.

What is so Amazing ?

• grinding linear, never changing Dungeons ?
• fighting Invisible people in WvW ?
• being stormed by 50 people without ever realizing it ?
• unimportant sPvP (you just fight and that’s it, not achieving anything for PvE/WvW)
• Exploring Maps pass lvl 80 for no real Rewards
• Finishing boring story that is different for everyone …but same for everybody pass lvl 30 XD
• Farming for Legendary ….so that you have a weapon that glows ????

I made my Ele and Thief ….both lvl 80 full exotics. ..together 71% map completion …

I could go for 100% … but why ?
I could go to do some more WvW … but why ?
I could train SPvP more …but why ?

I can play for 2 years more ..and nothing will ever change, I will stay exactly strong as I am now …

I (and other ~70% of community) have no reason to play this game past lvl 80 Exotics…

I’ll answer that. You do the dungeons because they are fun. You get 100% map completion because the zones are fun (and they recently increased the rewards for this). You play sPvP for fun. You see what I’m saying? There doesn’t have to be a point! It’s a game, play it for enjoyment, relaxation, the thrill, the fun, or for whatever other reason you want!

Unspecified.9142:

You sound like the only reason you have to play games is to get some payout of pixels and if there is no pixel jackpot to be had you can’t see the purpose in a video game.

The motivation underlying that attitude is actually a goal oriented one so I don’t see why its so bad.

Sebalon.5913:

I’ll answer that. You do the dungeons because they are fun. You get 100% map completion because the zones are fun (and they recently increased the rewards for this). You play sPvP for fun. You see what I’m saying? There doesn’t have to be a point! It’s a game, play it for enjoyment, relaxation, the thrill, the fun, or for whatever other reason you want!

Doing the same dungeon more than a few times isn’t fun.
The open world zones the hearts and DESs end up being very samey and trite.
sPvP becomes boring with the same game type every match.
I’ll add in crafting, getting sufficient mats for crafting is impossible without a unacceptable grind and this has flow on effects in terms of making it hard to experiment with different load outs.

The game mode that is dynamic and hence replayable over a long period is WvW yet it is hamstrung by severe issues and anet gives short thrift to it .

morrolan.9608:

Unspecified.9142:

You sound like the only reason you have to play games is to get some payout of pixels and if there is no pixel jackpot to be had you can’t see the purpose in a video game.

There’s nothing wrong with a ‘goal oriented’ mind set. Although many goal oriented people tend to forget to enjoy the journey.

I myself am very ‘goal oriented’ in video games but there’s more goals available than just getting better gear. I’m also capable of setting my own goals.

Some of the goals I have for this game include:

- Get all 8 classes to level 80 with 100% map completion and find builds I like to play for each.
- Get ALL the achievements
- Make all 20 legendary weapons. (This has about a million smaller goals required like 10 characters with 100% map, 10k Badges of Honour, over 20 million Karma, doing all the dungeons, etc…)

Those are really my long-term goals so each time I play I pick something that will help towards those goals and go out and do it. What I do depends on what seems like fun at the time. Some days I don’t leave WvW. Other days I just run around completing maps. The nice thing about having such lofty goals is that I can rest easy knowing there is absolutely nothing I can do that doesn’t help towards my goals.

It really helps to also enjoy the game itself and have fun while playing it. What bugs me is people who complain about how hard it is to get a legendary or about a lack of pixels to chase when it sounds like they don’t actually enjoy playing the game. The actual playing of the game is just that ‘chore they suffer through’ to accomplish their goal. That sort of ‘goal oriented suffering through the game’ IS bad (unless you’re a masochist then have at it), especially if Anet decides to cater the game to those people.

Sebalon.5913:

I’ve been playing since August 25, 2012, and to this day I am still amazed every time I log in. I’m posting this thread because I’m tired of seeing all the threads complaining about this or that. Sure, the game isn’t perfect, but what game is?

I’ll never understand those complaining about lack of “end-game” content. You can do whatever you want! And there seems to be practically an unlimited amount of things to do. Also, if you don’t like the gear grind, then don’t do it! I’ve hardly even set foot in fractals, yet I still find ways to enjoy this game. You don’t need the best gear to have fun. If you play the game with this mindset, you may find that your experience completely transforms. Just play the game for fun.

The complaints about the lack of endgame content comes from many of us having experience in other MMOs that actually have end game. The problem is that while i can “do whatever i want” none of that stuff really makes me any better or is difficult. Everything is pretty much handed to you, with the exception of legendary items…which u can just buy i guess, and there aren’t many challenging things, ESPECIALLY in the realm of dungeons.

On top of that MANY of the DEs are just… go kill these things with a thin context. We don’t really see much coming from it or anything all that interesting happening. I’m honestly very disappointed in the DE system. Jumping puzzles are cool but they’re few and far between and don’t really have replayability imo.

The personal story is a devastating failure. Post 30 it is homogenized and the writing and voice acting in about 80% of the other story stuff is pretty bland.

GW2, while i love it for a lot of reasons and had a ton of fun with it, has absolutely NO progression. There is no reason for me to log on the 4 80s who are decked out in exotics/ascended stuff for me. Leveling has gotten stale now that I’ve realized there’s nothing to do after a few hours at 80. On top of that there is not a single thing, on the PVE side of things at least, that presents any challenge. I’ve resorted to trying to solo Arah paths because that might actually be hard.

I pretty much only pvp now and have almost stopped playing entirely. It is unfortunate because i was a hard core raider back in wow before i quit a few years ago and just am not getting the challenge and teamwork this game’s dungeons promised.

Thanks to the OP for posting this thread among all the doomsayer threads I see.

I’ve been playing MMO’s since EQ1 (where my best mmo memories are), and I’ve played just about every kind of MMO since then; F2P-P2P, Korean Grinders, Shooters , you name it. I’ve really been struck with the quality in design of this game. From the little things like sending mail on the fly to the larger things like dragon fights, dungeons or wvwvw. I’m really impressed with how Anet has tried to be its own version of a MMO. Loved GW1 too, but that one never quite roped me in because of my own personal tastes.

I won’t completely overlook glaring issues with the game, though, such as not rewarding pvp/wvw players properly (coming from a staunch pve player), or certain dungeons being imbalanced, and all the useless skills, etc. But constructive criticism can be reasonable as well. Anet has mentioned they’re working on fixes for most of these anyhow.

The lack of endgame is still the biggest issue I hear from people and I strongly disagree. I think people either compare WoW + 4 expansions to GW2 (or similar comparison) and don’t like the understandable content gap, or they just can’t grasp that Anet is trying to balance hardcore and casual content. To me, it feels like they’ve done a great job. Also, if you’ve played for 2000 hours in 5-6 months …then…you may need a break.

Nezrilus.8910:

Also, if you’ve played for 2000 hours in 5-6 months …then…you may need a break.

I LOL’d at this. Struck me funny for some reason. I’m prolly tired. Anyone remember the beta weekends at first when we’d get this message after every hour or so of gameplay that we’d been playing long enough and should go do something else? So glad they removed that before the game launched. lol