Guild Wars 2

This Zerker meta has to end. It has killed the diversity too long. This game has such a unique build system, and you should truly be able to play how you want. However, unless you have a pre made, then people will kick you. Start building your toon the way you want to!

<——-Soloist. Never have to worry about what all the “cool kids” are doing. :p

I don’t worry about the zerker meta either and I run dungeons with my guild quite frequently.

News Flash: You can still play how you want.

The meta exists for a reason.

No matter what Arenanet does, perfect balance is unachievable and a good chunk of players will always go for the fastest/easiest way to clear content. Understandably they want to play with like-minded individuals (the majority apparently, since the zerk only parties are really common).

Understandably again not everyone cares about min/maxing and would like to build their character however they wish (no matter how bad it is) and for those I encourage again like minded individuals/guilds.

I see no reason why the two playstyles shouldn’t coexist.

I can play how I want, unless I have no friends on and everyone wants to do speed Zerker clears and kicks you

Perfect balance is unachieveable but why can every other big gaming company pull of a decent holy trinity and some a soft trinity as in you can do trinity roles with multiplie classes like this game was advertised in the first place. It comes down to long cooldown and weak skills not even worth using.
I dont know why people try to build for anything else than damage in PvE.
And ofcourse dodging press v to avoid that obvious red circle.

• Oddly enough, you can play as you want now. If you want a dungeon meta to accept any build, you are expecting the impossible. It will never happen, unless all builds are literally the same — and where’s the diversity there?
• Since you can make your own LFG, the comment about needing a premade is false.
• Such complaints invariably devolve down to, “I want the convenience of pugging while playing the build I want to.” Since the OP seems more interested in being able to join any group than in actually taking advantage of the opportunity to get what he wants, he is really after the convenience of getting his way without having to do a kitten thing beyond joining any group in the LFG.
• Every idea that has been put forward to “allow” diversity boils down to requiring certain builds. That doesn’t add diversity, it kills it. Required builds would be the death of anything goes PuG’s.

I once got aksed if I ran full zerker.
I posted my zerker amulet and they believed me fully.
Little did they know at the time this had been my only zerker piece alongside a lot of soldier or knights pieces.

Eventually I gave in myself ankitten ow running full zerker. Then again I never really worried about it. Just play as you like.

IndigoSundown.5419:

• Oddly enough, you can play as you want now. If you want a dungeon meta to accept any build, you are expecting the impossible. It will never happen, unless all builds are literally the same — and where’s the diversity there?
• Since you can make your own LFG, the comment about needing a premade is false.
• Such complaints invariably devolve down to, “I want the convenience of pugging while playing the build I want to.” Since the OP seems more interested in being able to join any group than in actually taking advantage of the opportunity to get what he wants, he is really after the convenience of getting his way without having to do a kitten thing beyond joining any group in the LFG.
• Every idea that has been put forward to “allow” diversity boils down to requiring certain builds. That doesn’t add diversity, it kills it. Required builds would be the death of anything goes PuG’s.

I guess you following you build is a diverse as you want to get.

Exhibit A of entitlement mentality. Go to lfg. Type in the following:

‘lfg x content, nomad gear/condition builds only. slow roleplay walk only. No skipping. Watch all cutscenes. No zerker elitists.’

You too can PHIW.

These threads pop up every so often. In fact there is another going right now. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/The-zerker-meta-and-how-to-change-it/page/7#post4582708

A summery of what you’ll see as responses are (some have already been stated)
? Start your own lfg
? “I wear X and ping zerker”
? Play how you want zerker is for elitists
? Dont run in zerker only groups
? Zerker is the fastest way to clear mobs
? Need a trinity

Now please lets merge these threads so we dont have 15 of them going around. Thanks!

KSIBBQ.8123:

This Zerker meta has to end. It has killed the diversity too long. This game has such a unique build system, and you should truly be able to play how you want. However, unless you have a pre made, then people will kick you. Start building your toon the way you want to!

Couple things of my opinion:

1. Meta is there because every game has a meta. All Meta means: is that its the mathematical “Best Set Up for Optimal Whatever it is you’re trying to accomplish.” I’ll post a proper description below.

Meta Gaming Description: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=metagame

2. There will ALWAYS be a Meta no matter what even if it changes.

3. In most PUG Comps If you don’t say anything and you don’t screw up too bad no one is going to notice.

4. If your guildies want you to run Meta and kick you for not? Get new guildies?

5. No one is forcing you to run it there are many of us that get by JUST fine without running meta.

6. Run what YOU want, but also don’t go around begruding others for running what they want? How is it right of you to want to “kill” the meta to benefit you? There is room for all builds in the game and others opinions shouldn’t affect you negatively.

7. I’m a HUGE believer in Knowledge of Content > Skill > Gear. Gear is the LAST of the tri-fecta you need to worry about. The difference between a Zerker Run versus a Non-Zerker (barring a few stat sets that offer no offensive stat boosts, however there is room for them in my opinion too) run in a party of people who understand the content and make minimal mistakes is honestly rather negligible.

Assassins is higher DPS for some classes

@ Paradox
Meta (from the Greek preposition and prefix meta- (????-) meaning “after”, or “beyond”) is a prefix used in English to indicate a concept which is an abstraction from another concept, used to complete or add to the latter.

Ugh..wouldn’t let me add in the greek spelling…

Until several major things change, zerker meta will stay as the prevalent build for all classes in GW2. Why is that you say?

1. No holy trinity. The holy trinity remains as the primary way of designing a combat system in MMOs. It works well and is easy to make content for. However, in guild wars 2 the 2 sides of the trinity: tanking and healing either don’t exist or just kind of suck. There is no way to reliably control aggro, tank stats are pretty useless other than for personal survival. Healing power scales extremely poorly for PVE and is largely seen as useless as every class has a heal skill with high base healing. Instead the “trinity” of gw2 was advertised as DPS, support, and control. However this leads me to my second point…

2. No matter what you build, your CC and boon giving abilities are pretty much the same. The zerker elementalist is going to give roughly the same amount of boons as the full soldiers elementalist. Outside of boon duration, there is really no way to make your support or control abilities stronger. By building any stat except for damage you are really just gimping your party in a way unless you can’t survive. However this leads me to my third point…

3. Content in guild wars 2 is easy. There. I said it. You can view it how you want, but in my opinion, content in guild wars 2, especially older content is fairly easy compared to other popular MMOs because of one mechanic: Dodge. I love dodging in this game, however the ability to have evade frames for a good second at any time if you have the endurance to pay for it makes it so that even the glassiest of characters can survive almost all encounters in the game. I have a feeling that Arenanet won’t change this as they have the motto of “play how you want”. While some players may make this excuse to take strange or “unoptimal” builds, it works both ways. The full cleric guardian should theoretically be able to complete the same content as the 11k hp elementalist. This leads me to my final point…

4. Because of these reasons, there is no real need for teamwork . This is by far one of the biggest gripes I have with the game. Your thief and elementalist are dead or downed? Guardian AFK? Thats okay! Chances are, if you or the other person are good enough you could probably solo or duo the boss. Every class is self sufficient. While this does have its strengths, it really detracts from the most challenging aspect of MMOs, and in my opinion, the part that is the most fun: working as a team to beat challenging content.

I’m not saying that I hate Guild Wars 2. I love playing the game. However like most things, there are many things that could be improved in this game, one of which is the combat. There will be many people who disagree with me, however one of the best parts about playing an MMO is working with other people, often people that you don’t know. The holy trinity was an easy way to make it so that it was necessary to play the different roles and work with other people.

TLDR: I do believe that gw2 can find a way to make their “soft trinity” combat system work, but right now PVE really needs some love from the developers. Until there are major changes to combat or the way encounters are designed, the only trinity in the game is power, precision, and ferocity.

Don’t like the meta?

A solution is clearly presented in this guide:

Piratoz.8627:

Until several major things change, zerker meta will stay as the prevalent build for all classes in GW2. Why is that you say?

1. No holy trinity. The holy trinity remains as the primary way of designing a combat system in MMOs. It works well and is easy to make content for. However, in guild wars 2 the 2 sides of the trinity: tanking and healing either don’t exist or just kind of suck. There is no way to reliably control aggro, tank stats are pretty useless other than for personal survival. Healing power scales extremely poorly for PVE and is largely seen as useless as every class has a heal skill with high base healing. Instead the “trinity” of gw2 was advertised as DPS, support, and control. However this leads me to my second point…

2. No matter what you build, your CC and boon giving abilities are pretty much the same. The zerker elementalist is going to give roughly the same amount of boons as the full soldiers elementalist. Outside of boon duration, there is really no way to make your support or control abilities stronger. By building any stat except for damage you are really just gimping your party in a way unless you can’t survive. However this leads me to my third point…

3. Content in guild wars 2 is easy. There. I said it. You can view it how you want, but in my opinion, content in guild wars 2, especially older content is fairly easy compared to other popular MMOs because of one mechanic: Dodge. I love dodging in this game, however the ability to have evade frames for a good second at any time if you have the endurance to pay for it makes it so that even the glassiest of characters can survive almost all encounters in the game. I have this feeling that Arenanet won’t change this as they have the motto of “play how you want”. While some players may make this excuse to take strange or “unoptimal” builds, it works both ways. The full cleric guardian should theoretically be able to complete the same content as the 11k hp elementalist. This leads me to my final point…

4. Because of these reasons, there is no real need for teamwork . This is by far one of the biggest gripes I have with the game. Your thief and elementalist are dead or downed? Guardian AFK? Thats okay! Chances are, if you or the other person are good enough you could probably solo or duo the boss. Every class is self sufficient. While this does have its strengths, it really detracts from the most challenging aspect of MMOs, and in my opinion, the part that is the most fun: working as a team to beat challenging content.

I’m not saying that I hate Guild Wars 2. I love playing the game. However like most things, there are many things that could be improved in this game, one of which is the combat. There will be many people who disagree with me, however one of the best parts about playing an MMO is working with other people, often people that you don’t know. The holy trinity was an easy way to make it so that it was necessary to play the different roles and work with other people. I do believe that gw2 can find a way to make their “soft trinity” combat system work, but right now PVE really needs some love from the developers.

I will state that there is still team work involved in many of the execute strats that are used heavily in content. Team blast stacks of might, vuln, fury, with quickness que in deep freeze ice bow with everyone doing a “synergistic” kill combo is still considered team work. It is an offensive team spike. Its only considered cheesy because mobs don’t try to do anything to get out of the situation. Change that and you’ll change how people see things.

I think there were many ideas that would allow stat diversity to be considered a much more competitive approach in content without devolving into a hard trinity system including going back to GW1’s philosophy stat and build diversity in opposition (packs of mobs also had tank and healer archetypes) combined with a smart AI approach that we see snippets of in dark corners of tyria. They have the tools to do so, its just finding man power to get it to areas that really truly need it.

In all honesty, we have to wait and see what the efforts of the new AI development initiative yield in future content to really say anything. One thing is for sure, there is movement against the “meta ideals”. Whether anything impactful comes out of it will have to be judged later and not now.

Short of rebuilding combat mechanics and character stats from the ground up around active defenses and dropping defensive attributes altogether (other than vitality), that seems hard to do. But if they were going to put in that effort, I would rather they drop professions completely too, which would help address a lot of the remaining balance issues (in the sense that only certain skills and traits would be useless, not whole characters).

The majority of answers in this post just shows how casual faceroll players are in this game. Having one viable build thats far better than others in PvE is just stupid class and encounters design, period!

I am so sick of this discussion.
There will ALWAYS be some kind of meta, because there will ALWAYS be a most efficient way of clearing content. ALWAYS.
You have the ability to go to the LFG tool and create a group with “any build allowed”. YOU HAVE THAT CHOICE. You are NOT being forced into playing zerk.
If meta groups want to play meta, LET THEM. You do NOT have to do so as well.

Well most of us are hoping for a buff in game content rather than a nerf in zerker builds.

It’s going to take some doing and a lot of tact.

As it is, there are a few dungeon paths out there that are more challenging and they are really just the ones you never ever see in the LFG ads.

A few things they could do:

1. Rethink defiance (as CC in most PvE content usually only goes as far as prepping a boss into a corner.)

2. Figure out a way to overcome the condition cap (they say this one has them stumped ATM)

3. Make more scripted Jade Maw type bosses as opposed to big HP pool champs/legendaries

The root problem with the zerker is the lack of trinity. Every character brings enough to ‘support up to 5’ that if all the players spec zerker and stack, they can survive just fine and maximize dps.

Canakun.8031:

I am so sick of this discussion.
There will ALWAYS be some kind of meta, because there will ALWAYS be a most efficient way of clearing content. ALWAYS.
You have the ability to go to the LFG tool and create a group with “any build allowed”. YOU HAVE THAT CHOICE. You are NOT being forced into playing zerk.
If meta groups want to play meta, LET THEM. You do NOT have to do so as well.

just because you broke your paddle doesn’t mean I can’t have fun with mine.

Been doing it for like 12 hours a day 7 days a week for the past 2 years, don’t plan on stopping soon.

Canakun.8031:

I am so sick of this discussion.
There will ALWAYS be some kind of meta, because there will ALWAYS be a most efficient way of clearing content. ALWAYS.

True, but in group-based content, that meta could (with the right game mechanics) still involve different roles for different stat configurations. As opposed to a team of zerk, zerk, zerk, zerk, and zerk.

perilisk.1874:

Canakun.8031:

I am so sick of this discussion.
There will ALWAYS be some kind of meta, because there will ALWAYS be a most efficient way of clearing content. ALWAYS.

True, but in group-based content, that meta could (with the right game mechanics) still involve different roles for different stat configurations. As opposed to a team of zerk, zerk, zerk, zerk, and zerk.

The question is: Would that lead to us returning to the old issue of having to boot people from our group because we already have 4/5 and have yet to get a healer?

Given the mechanic of the game, best dps will always be the meta, which is berserker for majority classes and some like mesmer, assassin. The whole game has to go through massive structural and mechanic overhaul into totally a different game for this to go away.

There is no way this game is going to survive with drawn out fight build type as meta. Generally, the game has crappy rewards on every single thing you do, for example, there is absolutely no point on running 1 hour dungeon for few gold.

Imagine, given current state of the game, every1 running around on soldier, knight, nomad, settler etc … pick anything that’s not really dps as your meta. Lots of ppl is going to head to the exit door.

The problem of dps meta in this game is it does not have much alternative. Hence, ppl like op generally blaming the zerk meta itself. Now imagine, if they fixed condition problem on pve to the point condi damage can compete with white damage.
And yes, condi problem is huge in this game and it has been ignored for a long long time, probably not fixable till they overhaul the mechanic and game engine.

That looks like Gumby’s horse. I forget his name though.

DarkWasp.7291:

perilisk.1874:

Canakun.8031:

I am so sick of this discussion.
There will ALWAYS be some kind of meta, because there will ALWAYS be a most efficient way of clearing content. ALWAYS.

True, but in group-based content, that meta could (with the right game mechanics) still involve different roles for different stat configurations. As opposed to a team of zerk, zerk, zerk, zerk, and zerk.

The question is: Would that lead to us returning to the old issue of having to boot people from our group because we already have 4/5 and have yet to get a healer?

Dedicated Healers were a thing in Guild Wars 1 yet it was entirely optional based on the mission at hand, even in the speed clears. It is not one or the other.

Short Answer: Doesn’t have to be.

Because of how action oriented GW2 is, the mechanics can allow these concepts to be recognized without them being mandatory. GW2 does not have classic MMO trope design, if anything borrows heavily from many high action shooters and hack and slash games.

Capitalize on that approach.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

DarkWasp.7291:

perilisk.1874:

Canakun.8031:

I am so sick of this discussion.
There will ALWAYS be some kind of meta, because there will ALWAYS be a most efficient way of clearing content. ALWAYS.

True, but in group-based content, that meta could (with the right game mechanics) still involve different roles for different stat configurations. As opposed to a team of zerk, zerk, zerk, zerk, and zerk.

The question is: Would that lead to us returning to the old issue of having to boot people from our group because we already have 4/5 and have yet to get a healer?

Dedicated Healers were a thing in Guild Wars 1 yet it was entirely optional based on the mission at hand, even in the speed clears. It is not one or the other.

Short Answer: Doesn’t have to be.

Because of how action oriented GW2 is, the mechanics can allow these concepts to be recognized without them being mandatory. GW2 does not have classic MMO trope design, if anything borrows heavily from many high action shooters and hack and slash games.

Capitalize on that approach.

True. It would be hard to do, but it’s what we expected pre-release. That a team of 5 zerks could do it, but a balanced team could do it just as well.

GW1 did have a lot of specific builds though. Rangers weren’t part of many configurations and necros had an easy in just about everywhere.

With action combat, full offense will always be the ultimate option because you can outplay the content. The only way berserker gear is going to be taken down is by either turning every stat combination into a modified version of celestial or by increasing the difficulty, which is just going to make it harder for everyone that is not capable of running full offense.

Personally, I think they should just nerf all stats to a point that the difference between offensive and defensive gear is marginal. Make everything like celestial and simply give the different stat types a minor bonus. At least then the content would be balanced around low DPS and defensive players wouldn’t be as much of a burden, especially when scaling is involved. As a side effect, the game would likely become unplayable for those that rely on full defensive gear.

Healix.5819:

Personally, I think they should just nerf all stats to a point that the difference between offensive and defensive gear is marginal. Make everything like celestial and simply give the different stat types a minor bonus. At least then the content would be balanced around low DPS and defensive players wouldn’t be as much of a burden, especially when scaling is involved. As a side effect, the game would likely become unplayable for those that rely on full defensive gear.

If this happened and everything stays the same in this game, reward and mechanic wise. It will be a suicidal move for anet. Imagine, fighting Kohler in AC for over 10 mins … lol, just to open a crappy chest.

KSIBBQ.8123:

This Zerker meta has to end. It has killed the diversity too long. This game has such a unique build system, and you should truly be able to play how you want. However, unless you have a pre made, then people will kick you. Start building your toon the way you want to!

I’ve never been kicked for having the “wrong” build and only 2 of my 9 lvl 80’s run full zerk. Be more selective with who you hang out with. In essence I do play the way I want!

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Exhibit A of entitlement mentality. Go to lfg. Type in the following:

‘lfg x content, nomad gear/condition builds only. slow roleplay walk only. No skipping. Watch all cutscenes. No zerker elitists.’

You too can PHIW.

I’d recommend having a book on hand though. You’re going to be waiting a long, long time.

perilisk.1874:

Canakun.8031:

I am so sick of this discussion.
There will ALWAYS be some kind of meta, because there will ALWAYS be a most efficient way of clearing content. ALWAYS.

True, but in group-based content, that meta could (with the right game mechanics) still involve different roles for different stat configurations. As opposed to a team of zerk, zerk, zerk, zerk, and zerk.

Gear =/= build
People seem to forget this.
Gear matters in only two things. First it determines your main source of damage (conditions or direct damage). Conditions has it’s place but it’s true that currently in group play they are not optimal though it still can be used here and there depending on your group composition.
Secondly it determines how much passive defense you have and therefore how much damage output you get just from stats. And here comes your build. No matter what gear you have, you could wear full ascended berserker’s or whatever but if you running with a staff AH guardian … Sure you will deal more damage than your regular PVT hero but for PvE it’s more beneficial (for you and your group) to roll a meta build or something similar to it. Such as spending 3 points in Radiance as a guardian makes more difference and has more support against trash mobs than any AH pvt hero could ever do. Just sayin’.

tl;dr: Gear has little to nothing to do with build diversity and OP obviously doesn’t experienced enough to realize this. Not only this but he couldn’t manage to make his own LFG with his own requirements thus the thread is just a pointless non-constructive whine post. Request for merge / delete.
Have a nice day!

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Exhibit A of entitlement mentality. Go to lfg. Type in the following:

‘lfg x content, nomad gear/condition builds only. slow roleplay walk only. No skipping. Watch all cutscenes. No zerker elitists.’

You too can PHIW.

I’d recommend having a book on hand though. You’re going to be waiting a long, long time.

Walking? Yea a book can be handy but for filling the group you’d be surprised at how fast something like this can fill. My guild will sometimes advertises somewhat like this minus the walking and zerker part;) We always fill in short time.

KSIBBQ.8123:

I can play how I want, unless I have no friends on and everyone wants to do speed Zerker clears and kicks you

I don’t know. Make friends? Join a Guild? This is an MMO. The solution to your problem already exists in game. You choose not to take advantage of it.

It’s better to light a single candle that to curse the darkness.

Dalanor.5387:

perilisk.1874:

Canakun.8031:

I am so sick of this discussion.
There will ALWAYS be some kind of meta, because there will ALWAYS be a most efficient way of clearing content. ALWAYS.

True, but in group-based content, that meta could (with the right game mechanics) still involve different roles for different stat configurations. As opposed to a team of zerk, zerk, zerk, zerk, and zerk.

Gear =/= build
People seem to forget this.
Gear matters in only two things. First it determines your main source of damage (conditions or direct damage). Conditions has it’s place but it’s true that currently in group play they are not optimal though it still can be used here and there depending on your group composition.
Secondly it determines how much passive defense you have and therefore how much damage output you get just from stats. And here comes your build. No matter what gear you have, you could wear full ascended berserker’s or whatever but if you running with a staff AH guardian … Sure you will deal more damage than your regular PVT hero but for PvE it’s more beneficial (for you and your group) to roll a meta build or something similar to it. Such as spending 3 points in Radiance as a guardian makes more difference and has more support against trash mobs than any AH pvt hero could ever do. Just sayin’.

tl;dr: Gear has little to nothing to do with build diversity and OP obviously doesn’t experienced enough to realize this. Not only this but he couldn’t manage to make his own LFG with his own requirements thus the thread is just a pointless non-constructive whine post. Request for merge / delete.
Have a nice day!

It’s not that far apart as it seems though. The game is in majority all about optimum dps on pve. The meta, trait is picked based on zerk gear in mind mostly, optimum wise, hence zerk meta.
Sure, players are welcome to put variation to trait to suit situations, needs or group composition. At the end of the day it’s still revolve around zerk meta.
I really wish they fix condi on pve, it will really open up dps options. Well, not by much.

@ OP: No!

The problem isn’t that Zerker is meta. The problem is that Zerker is meta in all dungeon paths.

I’m all for having different mechanics present where varying gear sets are optimal. Heck, even mixing those mechanics up in a single path would be great! Say there was a dungeon path where half of it greatly favored condition builds (for example, lots of Husks that you have to kill). You could run Zerker for the whole path, sure, but you’ll be slower than a party with two Sinister-equipped players. Other mechanics can focus on aspects other than just damage. Times where you have to survive a fixed amount of time don’t favor Zerker gear. There are even ways to make Clerics gear optimal for a path (or section therof).

The only problem with the 5-Zerk meta is that nothing in current dungeons changes the paradigm.

TLDR: Different dungeon paths can have different optimal stat spreads. But right now, they don’t.

I run all dungeons & l.50 fractals as a Staff Elementalist with full ascended-quality Celestial gear and Bifrost with Celestial stats.

While I avoid ’zerk LFGs, I never have a problem running anything.

My guild is part of a gaming community with a particular credo: “Bring the player, not the build.” You can clear Arah 1-4 with five Hunters if people are alert and are willing to communicate. It may take a few precious minutes longer, but most people don’t care.

As in other threads, avoid the ‘zerk folks or groups with “AP” requirements. You’ll be a lot happier without them, and they will be happier without you. A little sad, but it works.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The problem isn’t that Zerker is meta. The problem is that Zerker is meta in all dungeon paths.

I’m all for having different mechanics present where varying gear sets are optimal. Heck, even mixing those mechanics up in a single path would be great! Say there was a dungeon path where half of it greatly favored condition builds (for example, lots of Husks that you have to kill). You could run Zerker for the whole path, sure, but you’ll be slower than a party with two Sinister-equipped players. Other mechanics can focus on aspects other than just damage. Times where you have to survive a fixed amount of time don’t favor Zerker gear. There are even ways to make Clerics gear optimal for a path (or section therof).

The only problem with the 5-Zerk meta is that nothing in current dungeons changes the paradigm.

TLDR: Different dungeon paths can have different optimal stat spreads. But right now, they don’t.

Elite Arah soloers use cleric’s gear to solo orbs!

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The problem isn’t that Zerker is meta. The problem is that Zerker is meta in all dungeon paths.

I’m all for having different mechanics present where varying gear sets are optimal. Heck, even mixing those mechanics up in a single path would be great! Say there was a dungeon path where half of it greatly favored condition builds (for example, lots of Husks that you have to kill). You could run Zerker for the whole path, sure, but you’ll be slower than a party with two Sinister-equipped players. Other mechanics can focus on aspects other than just damage. Times where you have to survive a fixed amount of time don’t favor Zerker gear. There are even ways to make Clerics gear optimal for a path (or section therof).

The only problem with the 5-Zerk meta is that nothing in current dungeons changes the paradigm.

TLDR: Different dungeon paths can have different optimal stat spreads. But right now, they don’t.

Elite Arah soloers use cleric’s gear to solo orbs!

You said it right there. Soloers. Because it is impossible for a single player to put out the sheer amount of damage to quickly kill a dungeon enemy, survivability becomes much more important.

Cases where the party gets split up for a time can easily favor more durable gear sets. Having to keep NPC’s alive through environmental effects favors healing power on gear. The possibilities are endless, really, but right now, none of them are used in favor of keeping PvE simple. The Six forbid that people in Tyria need to use different strategies.

Xander.9024:

<——-Soloist. Never have to worry about what all the “cool kids” are doing. :p

^^^^^^^^

When I do group up, it’s with friends and guildies who don’t care about ‘meta’ or ‘efficiency’ most of the time. I mean, heck, just the other day I went into SE exp with a level 54 ele I rarely play, all just for the hell of it. No one cared.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Elite Arah soloers use cleric’s gear to solo orbs!

If they’re not thieves, yes. But it’s only one aspect of path 2, every other part is done in zerkers. Because:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

You said it right there. Soloers. Because it is impossible for a single player to put out the sheer amount of damage to quickly kill a dungeon enemy, survivability becomes much more important.

You need to put out as much damage as possible to be able to solo dungeon bosses as you need to kill them before they can kill you = avoid as many of their attacks as possible.

Lol wot is dis thread

Ok, OP. You want to play how you want. We hear you. But then, so does everyone else, and suffice to say that the majority of players don’t really care about what the current meta is, and just use it because it’s optimal. Even if you busted the zerk meta, a new meta would just appear eventually. Conditions? Healers? Afktankfest-ers? People will just change and adapt, and if a new meta springs up that deviates even further than what you want, are you going to cry here about it again?

So dear OP, just play how you want, make LFGs with no requirements, do stuff, I don’t know. Following the meta is a choice, no one is shoehorning you into it.

The perpetuation of the zerker meta in dungeons has more to do with Anet not bothering with dungeon revisions than anything else. The devs are already making enemies have more varied encounters that encourage different styles of play.

News Flash: It’s far less effective to be anything but Zerker. Balance doesn’t exist in PVE and neither does the Anet trinity. (as someone else put it “news flash” smh)

I h8 dem zerkurs aswell, don’t worry m8 you’re not alone out there.
There will be the day where we can actually play how we want. Because right now we obviously can’t.

You simply can’t make your own LFG.
You simply can’t find mindsharing players to play with.
You simply can’t make friends to play with.
You simply can’t see other sides of the coin.

Wanna know why ? That requires interaction and sometimes even socialising..

Good thing is that you CAN come to the forums and start a thread about “This and that has to be changed“ without bringing any idea on how to change it.

That’s cool bro, keep the good work up.

DarkWasp.7291:

The question is: Would that lead to us returning to the old issue of having to boot people from our group because we already have 4/5 and have yet to get a healer?

It’s a risk. Right now, if you’re meta-obsessed, you boot people because you’re 4/5 and don’t have another zerk, but you can muddle through most content with nearly any group if you play well enough. Having a healer in GW1, in contrast, was practically required.

So, it would depend on whether the new, more diverse meta is optimal (like the current zerk PvE meta), or necessary (more like the holy trinity, or healers in GW1).