Guild Wars 2

This post is more or less just a rant, and I feel the need to vent frustration about this change because it’s something I completely disagree with.

This nerf is probably the most depressing changes I’ve seen happen for this game since 2013.

It’s so bad that autorun with swiftness pretty much nearly matches warrior GS rush and whirlwind. They’re barely worth casting now when ooc.

I really don’t see what the problem was with letting swiftness and super speed affect movement skills. If it was super speed, then perhaps reducing the access certain classes had to it would have sufficed… but even then, what was the problem with them?

I heard a rumor that part of the reason that they wanted to nerf combat mobility skills with swiftness is because of people breaking out of maps. Well let me assure you – as an expert mountain goat… this nerf made about no impact whatsoever with the ability to break out of maps… absolutely none.

So if that wasn’t a part of the nerf, then perhaps it’s because of people complaining about random mobs crippling them in open world. For example I remember some thread on here about a guy who was upset with hyenas crippling them. Well then remove the cripple from hyenas? This doesn’t seem like a valid reason for them to have done this, so I doubt it was it…

So what gives? Why make moving around feel so sluggish?

It’s one of the biggest letdowns with the update for me. I used to really love running around and playing but this is really holding me back from enjoying gameplay. The two classes I main are elementalist and warrior which the nerf obviously affected the most.

Thief being the most mobile class in the game is also heavily affected with heartseekers.

I dunno. I want to enjoy this game but something like this really holds me back from it.

Burning Swiftness is garbage now. It doesn’t even feel like it goes 10 feet. While I understand superspeed could break some movement abilities, we were used to the distances covered by either the passive 25% boost or under swiftness. Could Arenanet at least try and push their distances/speed a little further? They feel almost unusable in their current state. To be honest, I used to love d/d on my ele. Since the change I stick with staff. I loved the mobility from Burning Swiftness while using Signet of Air. I got used to it and the distance felt right. I can’t tell you how many times I have tried to use it since the 23rd and just end up missing my target or getting disappointed in the distance traveled.

The current default for ‘leap’ abilities feels bad since everyone was used to using them while under the effects of SOME form of speed boost. Maybe think about adjusting the base speed/distance of these abilities?

I believe they said they done this so skills match what they say it does.

If a skill says it moves you 900 you go 900, swiftness made you overshoot this number with slows making it go less than stated.

I think this is why decided to go ahead and gut mobility.

Or they could have added tooltip descriptions to say it’s reduced or propelled by movement speed. : O I thought Anet love tweaking tooltips? :’ )

It is mostly for HoT, since there are places they want you to reach only with masteries and stuff.

Khenzo.2465:

I believe they said they done this so skills match what they say it does.

If a skill says it moves you 900 you go 900, swiftness made you overshoot this number with slows making it go less than stated.

I think this is why decided to go ahead and gut mobility.

So then why wouldn’t they just make it so this “Slow” and “Quickness” alike don’t affect the distance traveled?

This seems like the only logical explanation to me…

The channels would still get decreased/increased but your character would perform the skill quicker or slower, so you would still go the same distance. This would be a perfect solution to it.

+1

/15sadwarriors

Khenzo.2465:

I believe they said they done this so skills match what they say it does.

If a skill says it moves you 900 you go 900, swiftness made you overshoot this number with slows making it go less than stated.

I think this is why decided to go ahead and gut mobility.

Or they could have added tooltip descriptions to say it’s reduced or propelled by movement speed. : O I thought Anet love tweaking tooltips? :’ )

If that’s so, then they have to nerf all attack ranges too. All weapons are able to hit further than their description implies. I really hope (for their sake) that they don’t plan to do this, and I honestly don’t think this will happen, which in return invalidates the reason you give for this nerf.

I personally think that the new condition slow was kittening with skills affected by it and so they removed all interactions between mobility boons/conditions and mobility skills altogether.

Silverkey.2078:

It is mostly for HoT, since there are places they want you to reach only with masteries and stuff.

I don’t think you understand… refer to my first post. There is essentially no map breakout that can’t be done with this mobility nerf.

If it would be possible to reach a place with swiftness affecting leaps, it’s also possible without in nearly every circumstance.

Purple Miku.7032:

Khenzo.2465:

I believe they said they done this so skills match what they say it does.

If a skill says it moves you 900 you go 900, swiftness made you overshoot this number with slows making it go less than stated.

I think this is why decided to go ahead and gut mobility.

So then why wouldn’t they just make it so this “Slow” and “Quickness” alike don’t affect the distance traveled?

This seems like the only logical explanation to me…

The channels would still get decreased but your character would perform the skill quicker or slower, so you would still go the same distance. This would be a perfect solution to it.

Because Anet.

Need I say more?

But yeh, this change is universally disliked. Like some classes were slow enough as it was before patch lawl

If it’s universally disliked then we should be more vocal about it instead of just giving up and accepting the terrible choice :/

This sucks. Doesn’t make sense at all. How can swiftness affect movement, but not movement skills/abilities? This is just like reflect. It works on some mobs, but not on some others, which it should, since it’s clearly projectile coming at you. So it really kittenes me off, because it feels so cheap and stupid to just magically not work on some.
I’m sorry, but this change is bullkitten. :/

EDIT: Plus like you said, OP, there is no good reason for doing this. If it is I’d like to know. I think if there was good reason, they would say it.

+1 Miku.

This just flat out feels wrong after almost 3 years of nice fluid motion. Now it just feels slow and clunky.

Swiftness, Crippled, and Chill pretty much had their merits for impacting movement skills. The change honestly just feels dumbed down more than anything. It gave a unique form of play, both positive and negative, to non-shadowstep movement skills.

Being Crippled/Chilled yet escaping like they aren’t there just feels weird, as well swiftness doing nothing just feels weak. I would hope they consider reverting this change. It made sense to me how they affected movement skills in the first place, whereas the change doesn’t. Shadowsteps/Teleports being unaffected by either however did make sense.

+1

The change is garbage. Don’t feel like typing out why, since it should be obvious enough.

Not a huge fan of the change either. From a PvP perspective as a Warrior, I always thought it was really clever if an opponent used a cripple / chill to prevent a long range Evisc / ES or retreating Rush. Neat little nuances like that added depth to combat, and I really appreciated it.

I’m also a lot less stoked to continue my Necro / Reaper alt because the chill effect isn’t going to do squat to people that feel like resetting the fight at their leisure.

Yeah TheDuck that’s another good point. Removing counterplay from PvP… makes this change even more illogical.

I think the goal is to lower the skill cap. Simple is the new fad in design.

I agree. This mobility change is not good for the game. Having your movement skills affected by speed change is clever game design. Either they should revert it or speed up the mobility skills as it travels way too slow now.

so your in WvW or SPVP and u meet this warrior who is able to outrun u and put insanse distance between themselves and you. and you are unable to catch up because swiftness causes their mobility skills to have 50% increase in distance traveld.

and now we know why it was nerfed.

nothing worse then some 1 able to escape combat at any time they like with no way any 1 can catch up or stop them.

now imagine your caught in a fight u know u cant win. but u cant escape cos you are slow / crippled and your mobility skills now let u move half the distance. o noes u cant escape anymore.

if u cant understand this don’t bother playing PVP u will just end up whining about something else that’s changes.

krixis.9538:

so your in WvW or SPVP and u meet this warrior who is able to outrun u and put insanse distance between themselves and you. and you are unable to catch up because swiftness causes their mobility skills to have 50% increase in distance traveld.

and now we know why it was nerfed.

nothing worse then some 1 able to escape combat at any time they like with no way any 1 can catch up or stop them.

now imagine your caught in a fight u know u cant win. but u cant escape cos you are slow / crippled and your mobility skills now let u move half the distance. o noes u cant escape anymore.

if u cant understand this don’t bother playing PVP u will just end up whining about something else that’s changes.

Because anyone with access to invis or ports can’t still do that. It majorly screws everyone else over. Completely unfair no matter how you dice it.

The only counter to a mesmer in their current state is to run away, and warriors can’t even do that anymore.

krixis.9538:

so your in WvW or SPVP and u meet this warrior who is able to outrun u and put insanse distance between themselves and you. and you are unable to catch up because swiftness causes their mobility skills to have 50% increase in distance traveld.

The counter to that was that cripple/chill would severely affect those mobility skills. Now the Warrior doesn’t even need swiftness to outrun anyone and put insane distance between him and others.

krixis.9538:

so your in WvW or SPVP and u meet this warrior who is able to outrun u and put insanse distance between themselves and you. and you are unable to catch up because swiftness causes their mobility skills to have 50% increase in distance traveld.

and now we know why it was nerfed.

nothing worse then some 1 able to escape combat at any time they like with no way any 1 can catch up or stop them.

now imagine your caught in a fight u know u cant win. but u cant escape cos you are slow / crippled and your mobility skills now let u move half the distance. o noes u cant escape anymore.

if u cant understand this don’t bother playing PVP u will just end up whining about something else that’s changes.

Your mad about warriors resetting fights?

Have you been in wvw in this recent patch? Mesmers reset the fight and are half a mile gone.

Last night i was fighting a mesmer, who by the way resetted the fight 3 times with his unlimited amount of blinks and stealths from what it seems.

Anet nerfed gs warrior so they can play on their mesmers and blink around enemy warriors and laugh their ____off in real life.

Oh you got me to 10% hp? no problem brb going into stealth and resetting the fights(dont worry movement speeds do not affect blinks becuz op)

I dont even bother confronting classes anymore, every1 non melee i encounter can reset the fight in their favor. Whats the point.

krixis.9538:

so your in WvW or SPVP and u meet this warrior who is able to outrun u and put insanse distance between themselves and you. and you are unable to catch up because swiftness causes their mobility skills to have 50% increase in distance traveld.

and now we know why it was nerfed.

nothing worse then some 1 able to escape combat at any time they like with no way any 1 can catch up or stop them.

now imagine your caught in a fight u know u cant win. but u cant escape cos you are slow / crippled and your mobility skills now let u move half the distance. o noes u cant escape anymore.

if u cant understand this don’t bother playing PVP u will just end up whining about something else that’s changes.

Aren’t your points here just two sides of the same coin? Like you’ve said yourself, the counterplay to a class with high mobility used to be cripples and chill. This counterplay doesn’t exist anymore, the warrior is able to disengage regardless of their current ailments.

From a PvE perspective the change just slows down general movement, making numerous skills feel sluggish or not worth casting. There are still issues with landing lag on numerous skills (Savage leap, FGS #4, Ride the lightning) and skills like burning retreat cause severe rubberbanding if the ping exceeds ~100ms. Additionally as Miku pointed out, I’m yet to find an out of map jump that isn’t possible after the changes. Perhaps the better approach would be to correctly flag required PvE events such that it’s not beneficial to skip large segments of a dungeon; that means it’s still fun for people to explore but you don’t have ridiculous half-path skips such as Arah path 4.

The new JP was done very well in that you need to collect the key pieces as you progress, meaning it’s not beneficial to just mountain goat up to the final chest; however mesmer portals still remain an issue.

In PvP, the change hurts necromancers whose only way to keep up with their enemies is based on mild CC, i.e. chill and cripple, which after the change no longer affect movement skills.

This change wasn’t even justified in an intelligent defensible manner which in itself fits into Anet’s failure of communication track record.

It needs to be either rolled back or explained by someone in a manner that is informative and justifies the change beyond a childish, naive ‘normalization’ argument.

Purple Miku.7032:

It’s so bad that autorun with swiftness pretty much nearly matches warrior GS rush and whirlwind.

So in other words, I need to send the devs a crate of beer as a thank-you? I guess so.
Finally! \o/

leman.7682:

In PvP, the change hurts necromancers whose only way to keep up with their enemies is based on mild CC, i.e. chill and cripple, which after the change no longer affect the movement skills.

This change wasn’t even justified in an intelligent defensible manner which in itself fits into the Anet’s failure of communication track record.

It needs to be either rolled back or explained by someone in a manner that is informative and justifies the change beyond a childish, naive ‘normalization’ argument.

Yep this change pretty well ruined the reaper for me too. Why should I have chill on an auto attack when the effect is no longer a deterrent to escaping? Sure they will still have the effect on them after the leap/rush/whatever but if they are out of range of our (amazing…lol) mobility at that point, then again, they can reset the fight whereas we cannot.

edit: clarity

In Obsidian Sanctum a guildy showed me how to get from one of the higher sides spawn platform onto the middle one by using slick shoes and rocket boots.

While I’m not mad about the changes, I can see why they’ve been implemented and I don’t see any real need to change them back.

I don’t like the change either but I can’t imagine it game breaking. It hurts classes that used soft cc on people the most, not people who wanted to go faster for lulz.

L Step.8659:

I don’t like the change either but I can’t imagine it game breaking. It hurts classes that used soft cc on people the most, not people who wanted to go faster for lulz.

It’s “gamebreaking” in the sense that it pretty much ruins any chance of traveling around feeling fluid/enjoyable besides autorunning. Using movement-enhancing boons should naturally enhance your movement. Skills that move forward/backward SHOULD be affected.

I agree. It removes counterplay and smart boon play. If the issue was superspeed, quickness and slow. Just make those 3 boons/conditions not work or have reduced effect on movement skills. But dont completely butcher the entire play/counterplay system revolving around movement. The game is slow enough with running around maps. We really didnt need this to make it worse.

Be sure to buy HoT and more gems if you like seeing ANet treat you this way.

+1 (somethingsomething15characters)

Its a terrible change, but seems par the course with Anet decision making. I certainly hope they will tweak it or change it back, but thats most likely not going to happen. I’m pretty sure Anet doesn’t really care what the community or veteran players think.

i always hated nikey warriors as they sped away laughing . as for the other nerfs i do hope they reconsider

No more usain bolts running away like scared girls in wvw. I like it.

Offair.2563:

No more usain bolts running away like scared girls in wvw. I like it.

So thieves and mesmers can still reset fights and run away ad nauseam but warriors and eles can’t? Your logic is flawless.

Mobility is just as much of a class mechanic as blinking/stealth.

I agree with this topic and I think Anet should have a poll over this change as it effects us players playing the game. Not just because Anets think players are crossing the map too fast.

Anet made the game but we’re the ones who bought it and play it. Therefore we should have the right to vote in what updates we want and which ones we don’t.

Tentonhammr.7849:

Offair.2563:

No more usain bolts running away like scared girls in wvw. I like it.

So thieves and mesmers can still reset fights and run away ad nauseam but warriors and eles can’t? Your logic is flawless.

Mobility is just as much of a class mechanic as blinking/stealth.

Necros Rangers Guardians Engineers cant either so i dont see your logic either. And if you only build your toon to escape theres something wrong with your mentality in pvp orientated zones.

Lots of good points made here. I would like to add, this nerf has a profitable aspect to Anet. I had joked with a friend that maybe Anet nerfed mobility so players gathered nodes slower. Moving slower, getting to places and events slower… earning gold slower. Thus, more players to likely buy gems. Now, of course, this is not necessarily the case.

Before the nasty nerf, movement-impeding conditions and movement-enhancing effects add meaning play to movement skills. After the nerf: swiftness—not so swift, cripple/chill—less impact on mobility.

If certain gaps or areas are not meant to be accessible in HoT with movement skills, make the gaps bigger. Make the mushroom jumping higher. Make the glider go farther or faster. Many options to go about addressing the xpac.

Remember the infamous mount thread. Players saying they want mounts, and players saying mounts are not needed due to waypoints. I sided with the waypoints argument. Which makes this mobility nerf even worse. Even with waypoints, we are still running from here and there. Making players get to places alot slower than before.

I will learn to live with the changes. But, IMO Anet should revert the change.

I mainly play necro so I’m concerded as to what this does to our specialization the reaper. It was built on using chill to lockdown opponents and make it so they couldn’t run away easily. I know anet said they agreed this change screws over the reaper (and necros in general and they’ll address it before HoT, but I’m still worried about that.

Offair.2563:

Tentonhammr.7849:

Offair.2563:

No more usain bolts running away like scared girls in wvw. I like it.

So thieves and mesmers can still reset fights and run away ad nauseam but warriors and eles can’t? Your logic is flawless.

Mobility is just as much of a class mechanic as blinking/stealth.

Necros Rangers Guardians Engineers cant either so i dont see your logic either. And if you only build your toon to escape theres something wrong with your mentality in pvp orientated zones.

If specced right, necros, rangers, and engies can be decent at breaking, it can be very difficult to break as a guardian though. For necro, spectral walk + flesh wurm can be effective. Ranger melee weapons used to offer solid mobility, and trapper runes allowed for a decent amount of stealth (both of these tactics were nerfed in the patch as well it seems). Engineer has ways to get stealth, and rocket boots used to be very effective (dont know about now though). I have used, or have seen these tactics used effectively in wvw.

In wvw roaming (a form of pvp) being able to close gaps and escape is key. If running melee, and you cant close the gap between you and your opponent, you will be kited to death. If an enemy zerg shows up, you need mobility (or stealth) to escape, or else you will likely face a long walk.

I think it was a PvP issue? If you were slowed, and you use any skill that should hit because the range matches (melee movement skills), it won’t because you will travel less distance due to you being slower.

So unless they implement as system where the range of a skill updates base on your current movement speed, it makes no sense because you have to way to quantify your movement therefore can’t fight

The biggest thing that I see is mobility is fun above all else. A person should be rewarded for quick swapping weapons and using mobility skills over just plain running. The moments of the war thief and elies are part of what makes them fun classes to play. The mobility that they have should be incorporated into other classes not nerfed. GW2 boils down to a game of movements. If you cant move it makes the game a lot less fun.

sirrush.8950:

The biggest thing that I see is mobility is fun above all else. A person should be rewarded for quick swapping weapons and using mobility skills over just plain running. The moments of the war thief and elies are part of what makes them fun classes to play. The mobility that they have should be incorporated into other classes not nerfed. GW2 boils down to a game of movements. If you cant move it makes the game a lot less fun.

VERY well said. This is exactly true, it’s FUN to swap weapons/gear and make use of everything at your disposal to move quickly.

Thanks for the post, I’m tempted to edit my OP to add this in because I forgot to mention this.

a warrior QQ thread. how typical.

The opposite is true too. It’s annoying as heck that mobility skills aren’t hurt by things like cripple. That just makes no sense and seems a real dumbing down of this game especially in wvw and pvp. Finally managed to cripple that warrior when he’s running away, too bad he can still move fine.

Mobility nerf was just stupid….I mean was anyone really complaining about super speed rocket boots in dungeons?

Manimarco Devil.1790:

a warrior QQ thread. how typical.

Yeah because warrior’s the only class in the game with movement skills. Nice post buddy, but if you wouldn’t mind I would prefer to have people posting only if they care enough to read beyond the first few words of the post.

Thanks.

To the people saying that it’s a nerf to specs that kited around a lot and ran away, this change doesn’t really alter the inherent in-combat mobility granted by movement skills at all. Being in combat gives a movement speed debuff of ~28% (294 units/second out of combat, 210 units/second in combat). When movement skills were affected by movement speed buffs and debuffs, this effectively negated the effects of swiftness and other common buffs (from traits and the like) anyways. Now that they always travel a set distance, the in-combat speed debuff is negated and it’s pretty much the same as before, except that now movement skills also ignore conditions like chill and cripple. So, that Nike Warrior that was running circles around your camp and laughing? Yeah, he’s still going to get away, except now you can’t even slow him down with conditions. Go figure.

Torqiseknite.1380:

Being in combat gives a movement speed debuff of ~28% (294 units/second out of combat, 210 units/second in combat).

Did you test this yourself? I’m curious, as I’m too lazy to myself tbh.

My memory is a little foggy but, I don’t think that the combat penalty applied to movement skills before, I think it only applied to run speed. I definitely seem to have a harder time breaking now, and I’m fairly certain its me being slower and not my pursuers being faster (according to you warriors are just as fast as before, and this doesn’t seem to be the case). If movement skills were affected by in combat speed, then they wouldn’t travel as far, why would they have the range of a combat skill be diminished while in combat (flipside: there’s also no good reason why the skill would have its range increased outside of combat).

Other warriors are also feeling slow, so its not just me:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/I-am-sooooooooooo-slow/first#post5230858
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Slow-Rush-is-killing-me/first#post5218853
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/I-feel-slooooow/first#post5200305
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/The-Recent-Game-Changes-and-Anet