Guild Wars 2

Fractals gave Guild Wars 2 meaning

EDIT: We don’t want more Ascended gear progression, stop misusing the statements here. We just wish for challenging content that’s worth our time and effort.

You might argue that the November update was cancerous for Guild Wars 2 or whatnot. Statistically speaking, it was the best thing to have happened to it. “That’s cos you love gear grind, WoW addict”. I don’t give two dimes about stats – I did Fractals because they were challenging content with an obvious goal – gather enough AR to reach the last one. It’s an instance with a purpose in the game, something you can’t find anywhere else currently. Some blew the Ascended Item grind out of proportion – oh I absolutely must have it you’re forcing me to do it, you ruined the game etc etc. Did it now? Ascended rings give minimal increase to your character’s strength, if anything, they were an actual achievement (not the laurel vendor ones). Fractals are the only permanent and gamer-focused experience in LA right now.

WvW doesn’t encourage teamplay

World vs World is a fun and engaging addition that cannot alone hold players’ interest. The game inherently doesn’t support teamplay, because everything that could have warranted the need for others to help you Arena.NET did away with. Someone with a dedicated TS group will most likely quote me here, because, logically, if 10 people are working together it means the statement is completely wrong! Right?

Let’s see what a zerg needs.
1) Mesmer portals
2) Combo Fields + Blast Finishers spamming
3) Boons
4) AoE

Right, we have a use for Mesmers, as with all content, Elementalists for Lightning Field, Warriors and Guardians. That’s half the classes so it’s okay, no?

Who cares where you spam your boons? Who cares if you’re a really good Thief who can interrupt a staff Ele from afar? The party needs a Mesmer for a specific mechanic and nothing else and AoE, the more the merrier. There are almost no single-target counterspells. There’s “go AoE or go home”. Great multiplayer titles encourage teamplay passively. Guild Wars 2 pushes you away from that notion. You’re not valuable to the zerg’s success. You just need to be tanky enough to not die and rally the enemy and be able to mindlessly spam your spells on cooldown.

Endgame is a goal, not a time-sink

This is what’s wrong with Guild Wars 2. We don’t want farming or gambling to define endgame! That’s artificially extending the length of a game, it’s not content! All we want is a satisfying goal – server-wide buffs for everyone if we cap a WvW borderland, an epic, exclusive skin for every 10 levels in PvP, a very hard instance that we have to plan for in advance to beat and be rewarded with looks that no one else can have… that’s it! Without it, it’s a hollow, pointless world, full of wonderful tasks, not adventures, because adventurers seek reward and there is none to be found in Tyria.

Why shouldn’t I choose the competition?

Guild Wars 2 pushed the genre forward and then it stopped. MMOs that have adopted this gameplay model are already on their way and will likely be far more polished. Launching a clunky, unfinished game is indicative of one thing – you had to release early because you were fighting for market supremacy, in this case against Mists of Pandaria. MMO population tends to spike in the first few days, dropping off to a more consistent number later on, the so-called playerbase. The further you delay crucial fixes, the less likely it is for these players to return. The November update was a timely response to people’s desire for endgame PvE content. But then it never continued. Ultimately, Guild Wars 2 remains an unfinished game, one that will be dominated in the near future unless serious updates are introduced. I don’t like it and neither do you, but if a new player sees this older MMO with a dying community and a new one, that has yet to see a fall in popularity, 9 times of 10 the gamble will not be in favor of Arena.NET.

Quitting only exacerbates the problem

“If you don’t like it, you can leave!” That’s a terrible response from someone who’s openly advocating that gamers shouldn’t be told what to do in a game, hence the support for no gear grind. Casuals are afraid that the hardcore audience will somehow interfere with what they consider to be “fun”, which really boggles the mind. You’ve claimed dominion over Guild Wars 2 and don’t want it changed? How is that different from people wanting a gear grind? You both want something that automatically devalues the other person’s wishes. No one player is entitled to what the game should represent in terms of content – that’s why Guild Wars 2 shouldn’t cater only to casuals and shouldn’t be pushed toward the hardcore exclusively. Yes, in the end, the developers say what’s in the game and what’s not – but also they hope to attract the most amount of players, so it’s in their interest to provide options for both parties.

“I want this to be a niche title”

So you’d rather not see Guild Wars 2 evolve and become better with time? Because that’s what will happen if it loses more players. This statement is completely entitled and selfish – developers need money to support a game and consumers need to be treated with respect, not like gambling addicts. If you would rather see GW2 become a casual themepark with a ~250k playerbase then you are not helping Arena.NET.

Guild Wars 2 isn’t Dark Souls or Forza, it’s an MMO. It’s massive project that an entire studio commits to supporting. All focus must be on this game enduring and to do that, it needs to attract as many kinds of players as possible. This game shouldn’t be a WoW clone and it shouldn’t be “My Dress Shop” with RNG.

The Buy-to-Play model

This was a big selling point for Guild Wars 2. For starters, you’re investing very little and getting a ton of content with only micro-transactions that don’t alter one’s power level (Pay-to-Win model). Add to it that you’re not artificially forcing players to commit to the game just because they’re paying a monthly fee. This is both good and bad. You have more initial box sales, but less profit down the line unless you keep the playerbase interested in your product so they pay for gems. There’s also a major issue that people tend to ignore, because, in the end, no one wants to justify paying more money – a subscription model is dependent on keeping players engaged constantly, whereas Guild Wars’s model encourages on-and-off sessions. Does that render all my previous statements moot? Not at all, because…

If I don’t like your content, I won’t like it years from now

The easiest thing to do in a subscription-based MMO that has no compelling content to commit to is to abandon it. Right, and that’s what a lot of you will say! Don’t like it? Then don’t play it! How incredibly ignorant, might I add, because that’s again hurting the future of GW2. You may not want the hardcore players “ruining” your experience with their selfish demands, which I believe many have expressed in a very civilized tone, but you need them to keep the game progressing. Shunning a core audience out of the game just because we might “lead it in the wrong direction” shows narrow-mindedness. I don’t mind casual people and you shouldn’t mind the ones wanting to gain a level of satisfaction from the game that’s only achieved through completing difficult content and being rewarded properly.

Playing for fun. YOUR fun

By far the most incompetent argument in favour or Guild Wars 2 I’ve read is “you’re playing the game wrong”. You’re contradicting yourselves here, saying first that the game shouldn’t tell you how to play it, ergo that’s why you hate gear grind and then going on to say the hardcore audience isn’t playing the way it should. People like to state that fun is subjective, however, this has a logical spectrum past which it’s a load of something-replaced-with-feline.

If you cared about GW2 you would criticize it

Non-constructive opinion ruins any chance of a developer looking into the issues of the game. You’re not doing anyone a service by claiming “worst MMO ever I quit” or “this is actually the best game ever, you suck for complaining”. What’s the point of telling people you’re completely happy with the state of the game while countless number of players leave every day? “The UI is annoying, but the story is great!” Great, thanks! Now I know why Seafarer’s Rest PvE is a ghost town, it’s because of the UI! By the same logic, “gear grind is essential, this game has no point, Arena.NET suck at balancing”: how does that help? You want to tell the devs what they’re doing wrong, then be specific! Don’t suggest a 180 design overhaul because no company will ever invest in such a thing! (except Microsoft)

A game that’s currently in development and will also be published by NCsoft is Wildstar. It follows a pattern I’ve explained countless times that Guild Wars 2 cannot ignore: catering to all types of players. Once released you’ll see that the criticism you passed as pointless or biased was for the good of the game. NCsoft will support the bigger title: massive publishers place profit above the consumer and that’s a fact. Guild Wars 2 was a business success – it brought a ton of revenue, but it won’t be profitable for the future if it continues the way it does. NCsoft won’t have problem scratching it off their investment schedule – if Wildstar becomes the next big thing you’ll see this game with so much potential suffer because of your inaction. I’m speaking to both the community and the developers – stop looking at Guild Wars 2 as the best thing to have happened to MMOs and start making it so.

TL:DR – Guild Wars 2 has no focus and so people don’t commit. No regular players = no community.

OP, I get it, you want harder content and a better WvW dynamic.

Cool, I’m with ya …. just as long as this does NOT include any further erosion of GW2 towards stat-based vertical progression or the creation of any must-have classes (trinity model) for the harder content.

Otherwise, suggest away, and I’m with you.

1. I don’t collect minis, use the mystic toilet and I have spent money in the gem store only on things like character/bag/bank slots. How exactly is this like facebook?

2.Raids are coming – hopefully without a gear treadmill.

3.Living story is garbage – I agree and completely ignore it.

4.Fractals are garbage – but I don’t have to play them and don’t have anything against the people who enjoy them. BTW ascended gear makes a HUGE difference when you finally manage to get all 5 pieces and I’m a little cheesed that it’s going to take so long to outfit my other 2 main toons let alone my alts.

5.If WvW went as the way you described it there is no way I would play. There is a huge difference between coordinated groups and fair weather groups. It sounds like you never found a good commander or a good 5 man group to run with.

6.This game does have flaws. Even people like me who really like the game can see that. I came to the conclusion within the first 2 months after release that this first year was pretty much an extended beta where they can test out what works and what doesn’t.

Insignya.8625:

NCsoft won’t have problem scratching it off their investment schedule – if Wildstar becomes the next big thing you’ll see this game with so much potential suffer because of your inaction.

Meh. Wildstar will see the exact same thing that has happened to every other big MMO released in the past few years:

• A lot of MMO locusts will jump there as soon as it’s released. Initial game sales will be between 1.5 million and 2 millions.

• The MMO locusts don’t want to play Wildstar. They want an exact copy of their first MMORPG, which for most people was WoW, whether they realize it or not (there’s an interesting article about this kind of behavior here). After a few months playing the game, they realize that no, Wildstar is not a clone of whatever game they are thinking of, and begin leaving.

• Developers start to panic when they see those players leaving. They notice that most of them are the ones who asked for features seen in every other MMO (they do want a clone, after all), and so they begin frantically adding those features, often in a rushed way.

• The game becomes a bit worse, some of those players who wanted to play Wildstar and not a generic MMO begin to leave, the game continues to lose players and the developers continue to panic.

• Soon, the game goes free to play, tries to adapt to a business model it didn’t really expect, and claim to have one million registered players, most of which have played the game a few hours and then left.

Erasculio.2914:

Insignya.8625:

NCsoft won’t have problem scratching it off their investment schedule – if Wildstar becomes the next big thing you’ll see this game with so much potential suffer because of your inaction.

Meh. Wildstar will see the exact same thing that has happened to every other big MMO released in the past few years:

• A lot of MMO locusts will jump there as soon as it’s released. Initial game sales will be between 1.5 million and 2 millions.

• The MMO locusts don’t want to play Wildstar. They want an exact copy of their first MMORPG, which for most people was WoW, whether they realize it or not (there’s an interesting article about this kind of behavior here). After a few months playing the game, they realize that no, Wildstar is not a clone of whatever game they are thinking of, and begin leaving.

• Developers start to panic when they see those players leaving. They notice that most of them are the ones who asked for features seen in every other MMO (they do want a clone, after all), and so they begin frantically adding those features, often in a rushed way.

• The game becomes a bit worse, some of those players who wanted to play Wildstar and not a generic MMO begin to leave, the game continues to lose players and the developers continue to panic.

• Soon, the game goes free to play, tries to adapt to a business model it didn’t really expect, and claim to have one million registered players, most of which have played the game a few hours and then left.

LOL

That was priceless !

Bravo !

That’s a big thread and I don’t have the time to read it all right now, so for now I’ll just address this very specific and interesting matter

“Without transparency you’re leaving people with the most logical suggestion- that the revenue from your game is supporting the development of Wildstar.”

This just in, I hate Dontain.

Insignya.8625:

Guild Wars 2 is following trends, not the manifesto

Guild Wars 2 was at lts strongest when it knew how to please everyone. There were things for hardcore players to do! The current community believes it’s impossible to cater to both type of players – that’s a lie because Arena.NET did do that! Now it’s falling into one trap after another – temporary content, RNG, these things don’t build a community. What you create, ultimately, is a shallow experience, a business model for the select few who enjoy it and that’s not what Colin Johanson wanted GW2 to become.

How is temporary content a trap that Anet is falling into? If you missed some of it, you can read about it later. The good thing with temporary content is that no matter when you log in, you’ll always have something new going on.

Insignya.8625:

Reward is crucial

This is not equivalent to stat upgrades. Why do people seem to think so? Every successful title rewards players in some way – be it a meaningful story ending, a powerful item, a new armor set and so on. What’s Guild Wars 2’s alternative? One person slaves for weeks grinding gold for whatever goal he has in his mind. The other tosses 4 rares in a gambling pit and gets an item worth 500 gold. This is simply offensive. So I’m rewarded for not playing the game but playing with my luck? That’s absurd, it’s pointless! Who, other than the person who drew the winning number, enjoys it?

Not the RNG rants again.

There’s nothing offensive with the Mystic Forge or precursor drops. When you decide to make a legendary, you are fully aware you have like 0.0x% chance of achieving it. You accept those odds, and you are not entitled to succeeding, no matter how much you work for it. You accepted the odds that include a chance to fail (although you can still buy one after all that work).

Insignya.8625:

Invest in the future, not in the Living Story

The worst business policy is the short-sighted one. The Living Story is a testimony to that – it keeps the profit high with RNG boxes while alienating the people who have been playing since release. All the work of designers is getting removed because some salesman figured Guild Wars 2 needs to cash in now? That’s development wasted on the future of the game! How do you want to evolve a game that has its new content erased every month?! Add Guild Halls, not next year, now! Make lasting improvements to Guild Wars 2 and players will see that Arena.NET is committed to supporting it! Without transparency you’re leaving people with the most logical suggestion- that the revenue from your game is supporting the development of Wildstar.

It’s not your kittening business where the revenue from GW2 is going. If you don’t like how Ncsoft is handling money, don’t buy anything from them.

No content is erased ever, everything becomes a part of the game. Arena.net didn’t want the old type of content that’s always there whether it makes sense or not – this game is literally evolving through the temporary content. The name “Living Story” is very fitting.

I agree on the reward part so hard

there is those kittens who steps into the game plays it 50 hours throw a rare into forge BOOM 500 gold

Then there is those poor loser kittens like me who plays 1000+ hours in 10 months THROWS 4000 rares into that Godkitten forge and gets nothing

Kuruptz.4782:

I agree on the reward part so hard

there is those kittens who steps into the game plays it 50 hours throw a rare into forge BOOM 500 gold

Then there is those poor loser kittens like me who plays 1000+ hours in 10 months THROWS 4000 rares into that Godkitten forge and gets nothing

Wait a minute – you apparently didn’t pay attention when the mystic toilet was explained. It’s like the lottery. Are you going to get mad when you play the lottery for 10 years and get nothing? Are you going to get mad when someone buys their first ticket and wins? I never throw anything in the MF expecting anything but trash. If you had saved all of the money that you used buying rares or salvaged all of the rares that dropped for you into ectos and sold them you would have your 500 gold.

AntiGw.9367:

Insignya.8625:

Guild Wars 2 is following trends, not the manifesto

Guild Wars 2 was at lts strongest when it knew how to please everyone. There were things for hardcore players to do! The current community believes it’s impossible to cater to both type of players – that’s a lie because Arena.NET did do that! Now it’s falling into one trap after another – temporary content, RNG, these things don’t build a community. What you create, ultimately, is a shallow experience, a business model for the select few who enjoy it and that’s not what Colin Johanson wanted GW2 to become.

How is temporary content a trap that Anet is falling into? If you missed some of it, you can read about it later. The good thing with temporary content is that no matter when you log in, you’ll always have something new going on.

Insignya.8625:

Reward is crucial

This is not equivalent to stat upgrades. Why do people seem to think so? Every successful title rewards players in some way – be it a meaningful story ending, a powerful item, a new armor set and so on. What’s Guild Wars 2’s alternative? One person slaves for weeks grinding gold for whatever goal he has in his mind. The other tosses 4 rares in a gambling pit and gets an item worth 500 gold. This is simply offensive. So I’m rewarded for not playing the game but playing with my luck? That’s absurd, it’s pointless! Who, other than the person who drew the winning number, enjoys it?

Not the RNG rants again.

There’s nothing offensive with the Mystic Forge or precursor drops. When you decide to make a legendary, you are fully aware you have like 0.0x% chance of achieving it. You accept those odds, and you are not entitled to succeeding, no matter how much you work for it. You accepted the odds that include a chance to fail (although you can still buy one after all that work).

Insignya.8625:

Invest in the future, not in the Living Story

The worst business policy is the short-sighted one. The Living Story is a testimony to that – it keeps the profit high with RNG boxes while alienating the people who have been playing since release. All the work of designers is getting removed because some salesman figured Guild Wars 2 needs to cash in now? That’s development wasted on the future of the game! How do you want to evolve a game that has its new content erased every month?! Add Guild Halls, not next year, now! Make lasting improvements to Guild Wars 2 and players will see that Arena.NET is committed to supporting it! Without transparency you’re leaving people with the most logical suggestion- that the revenue from your game is supporting the development of Wildstar.

It’s not your kittening business where the revenue from GW2 is going. If you don’t like how Ncsoft is handling money, don’t buy anything from them.

No content is erased ever, everything becomes a part of the game. Arena.net didn’t want the old type of content that’s always there whether it makes sense or not – this game is literally evolving through the temporary content. The name “Living Story” is very fitting.

Wow. Just wow. I have never seen such an ignorant post in my life. Not to be rude, though. Apparently you don’t think that the only “end-game” in Guild Wars 2 should be obtained by pure luck with the mystic forge, or pure luck with your looting. Legendary weapons should not be obtained by luck. When people throw in thousands of rares and exotics and get crap, then a noob comes walking up to the mystic forge, tosses in 4 rares and gets a precursor instantly, they have every reason to be upset. Legendary weapons should be obtained by the amount of effort you put into getting them and should not have a .00001% chance to get one.

Secondly, it is our business where Anet is spending the money we give them. Like a shareholder, we expect to be let in on at least some of the future plans they are going to implement. If they took my money and then said, “Oh, looks like we’re out of money and closing down GW2.”, everyone would wonder where their money went. It is our business.

The living story is the worst type of content. Content that’s doable in a day and with minimal reward to show for your effort. Some of the content is good, but most is just pure, unending garbage.

The problem with Living Story is not that is temporary, is that is the only new pve content we get, that means all the new pve content is temporary. If they were making updates that aso included worthy pve content then there woulnt be a problem. Shamefully they concentrated in the living sotry, and 90% of it is crap. So the actual situation is: Log in for get your achivment and play the only new and TEMPORARY content we give you (pve of course), also spent a lot if the gem store, or you will not get our special items… great job lol.
Seriusly we need new permanent content and made at least some outfits and pets attainable via game. Lets make this topic be the more visited, etc inthe forum, so they at least give us more attention.
I salute the OP for this post. Cheers we can make the game recover the path it has at the begging!!!

Galtrix.7369:

Wow. Just wow. I have never seen such an ignorant post in my life. Not to be rude, though. Apparently you don’t think that the only “end-game” in Guild Wars 2 should be obtained by pure luck with the mystic forge, or pure luck with your looting. Legendary weapons should not be obtained by luck. When people throw in thousands of rares and exotics and get crap, then a noob comes walking up to the mystic forge, tosses in 4 rares and gets a precursor instantly, they have every reason to be upset. Legendary weapons should be obtained by the amount of effort you put into getting them and should not have a .00001% chance to get one.

Secondly, it is our business where Anet is spending the money we give them. Like a shareholder, we expect to be let in on at least some of the future plans they are going to implement. If they took my money and then said, “Oh, looks like we’re out of money and closing down GW2.”, everyone would wonder where their money went. It is our business.

The living story is the worst type of content. Content that’s doable in a day and with minimal reward to show for your effort. Some of the content is good, but most is just pure, unending garbage.

Legendary weapons should not be “obtained by luck”? Says who? Almost every item in the game is “obtained by luck”, with the exception of things like dungeon tokens and such. Even things you can buy for gold are “obtained by luck” because gold is a randomly obtained resource. What, you don’t like that precursors are more rare random drops than gold? Well, sucks for you.

Just because you decided to challenge the odds and throw rares into the forge, doesn’t give you any additional right over the noob that got his precursor instantly. You challenge the odds and work to overcome them. If you don’t like that, don’t try to make a legendary.

Secondly, you are not a shareholder of anything. Your business is whether they do any updates to GW2 that you like, not what they do with the money they earn. They do make updates, so it’s all good. Or you don’t like the updates, so you don’t give them any more money.

Lucius.2140:

The problem with Living Story is not that is temporary, is that is the only new pve content we get, that means all the new pve content is temporary. If they were making updates that aso included worthy pve content then there woulnt be a problem. Shamefully they concentrated in the living sotry, and 90% of it is crap. So the actual situation is: Log in for get your achivment and play the only new and TEMPORARY content we give you (pve of course), also spent a lot if the gem store, or you will not get our special items… great job lol.
Seriusly we need new permanent content and made at least some outfits and pets attainable via game. Lets make this topic be the more visited, etc inthe forum, so they at least give us more attention.
I salute the OP for this post. Cheers we can make the game recover the path it has at the begging!!!

“Temporary content” is a misnomer. There is always some “temporary” content going on, so it’s not really temporary. It just changes all the time.

I added a few paragraphs, some less valuable than others. Overall it should make a complete picture of the whole problem.

Please, and I can’t stress this enough, if you’re going to post feedback here, do it in a constructive way. That’s the only way to get Arena.NET’s attention. The easiest thing to do is to be biased! I tried to provide arguments to both sides, maybe I have failed as well. But I spent nearly 3 hours completing this thread, because I’m not about to give up on Guild Wars 2. If you believe Arena.NET can do better and you’re willing to explain in a thoughtful way, please do so. If you think they’ve done a great job and they shouldn’t be changing their ways, feel free to respond. Feedback, not praise and not whining, is the only way to go if we want to be taken seriously.

Insignya.8625:

Quitting only exacerbates the problem

“If you don’t like it, you can leave!” That’s a terrible response from someone who’s openly advocating that gamers shouldn’t be told what to do in a game, hence the support for no gear grind. Casuals are afraid that the hardcore audience will somehow interfere with what they consider to be “fun”, which really boggles the mind. You’ve claimed dominion over Guild Wars 2 and don’t want it changed? How is that different from people wanting a gear grind? You both want something that automatically devalues the other person’s wishes. No one player is entitled to what the game should represent in terms of content – that’s why Guild Wars 2 shouldn’t cater only to casuals and shouldn’t be pushed toward the hardcore exclusively. Yes, in the end, the developers say what’s in the game and what’s not – but also they hope to attract the most amount of players, so it’s in their interest to provide options for both parties.

Insignya.8625:

Playing for fun. YOUR fun

By far the most incompetent argument in favour or Guild Wars 2 I’ve read is “you’re playing the game wrong”. You’re contradicting yourselves here, saying first that the game shouldn’t tell you how to play it, ergo that’s why you hate gear grind and then going on to say the hardcore audience isn’t playing the way it should. People like to state that fun is subjective, however, this has a logical spectrum past which it’s a load of something-replaced-with-feline.

I’ll address both quotes with a single answer.

“If you don’t like it, quit” is often used because a lot of posters on this forum came here expecting GW2 to be something it was never intended to be. They often make demanding and even extortionary posts to change the most fundamental game features. For example, people who think that selling cosmetic items in cash shop is not acceptable (whether it’s RNG or fixed price), while it was announced before launch and that’s how it was always supposed to work. Therefore, anyone who doesn’t like it, should really consider quitting. Seriously, what are they doing here in the first place?

Also, most players do not understand game design. They make completely ignorant posts thinking they somehow know more about the game than people that develop it. The thing is, they are trying to play “wrong” in the sense of not being able to appreciate the game for what it is, and instead project their own expectations onto it that of course fail. For example, the way the Living Story is perceived by some of them.

Insignya.8625:

A game that’s currently in development and will also be published by NCsoft is Wildstar. It follows a pattern I’ve explained countless times that Guild Wars 2 cannot ignore: catering to all types of players. Once released you’ll see that the criticism you passed as pointless or biased was for the good of the game. NCsoft will support the bigger title: massive publishers place profit above the consumer and that’s a fact. Guild Wars 2 was a business success – it brought a ton of revenue, but it won’t be profitable for the future if it continues the way it does. NCsoft won’t have problem scratching it off their investment schedule – if Wildstar becomes the next big thing you’ll see this game with so much potential suffer because of your inaction. I’m speaking to both the community and the developers – stop looking at Guild Wars 2 as the best thing to have happened to MMOs and start making it so.

This really isn’t our business to discuss. We have no data, nothing that would lead to a meaningful conversation.

Temporary content means after the time “that” content is gone, isnt acumulative and that is the problem, the game pve doesnt really grow since theres not other kind of “significative” pve updates. Try to think a litle before posting something…

I abandoned the game for 6 months for many reasons but my top list.

1. Fractals. When this started up- it was Wow and every other MMO I have ever played all over again. I don’t have the time to grind endlessly. Legendary Weapons being difficult I can accept given my circumstances. Fractal progression… that was my breaking point.

(I have not completed a single Fractal yet… I think I know where the entrance is…)

2. Time-sensitive Events. Hey! I have to work to put a roof over my head, food on the table, pocket money to spend on GEMS… there were quite a few events that were richly rewarded that I couldn’t complete in because of Real Life (that thing that allows me the opportunity to enjoy the game in the first place).

I have now ‘Recovered’ my account twice. Curiously or perhaps tragically (you pick)… since I started logging in once a week; the Phishing emails I was getting regularly disappeared. Almost as if there’s a connection…

I’m trying to re-engage with the game; but I just can’t manage it yet. Thanks for the post. I agree with some of it.

Bottom line- It will take very little to pull me away to something else. Star Citizen or other. What I loved about GW2 at launch… just isn’t there anymore and/or shadowed by all the other glitter they added to appeal to kids and retirees.

Pray these folks continue to have cash to spend on gems… it’s not worth my dime.

OP i don’t agree at all, Anets Predecessor was a far superior game even instanced and not a full MMO, sadly this is just another generic MMO..

I know others disagree i’m glad they like it but GW2 was a huge let down for so many as well, sadly they could make it resemble GW1 they wont though.

Also the Nov Fractals patch was a blight to GW2.

What your saying about WvW alone show you know nothing about GW2 you have fallen into the trap of becoming the argument and not making an argument. Your putting way too much of your self into what your saying so at best your just writing a paper showing others how well you can string ideals together but to no true point.

@Jski, I know organized teams exist. My impressions come from someone who is following the zerg. I would argue there’s more people simply following the commander’s orders than they are grouping up. And in that scenario, the above points are valid – my duties as an Elementalist are to spam Lightning Fields and AoE and with other classes it’s mostly the same. I’ve never felt like the zerg needed me for a particular reason. Maybe it does, but I think 10 months is enough of a timeframe for this to be apparent, no?

OP… That crowd who agrees with exactly what you said may have left, but this one just happened to be browsing the forum on his old game.

+1

However, the opposite of that crowd is what mostly remains. Maybe if my Guardian wasn’t so kitten slow and/or Pow/Pre/Tuf was introduced to sPvP, I might still be actively playing and campaigning with you. Or maybe if I could stomach leveling another character and replaying the same old dungeons for gear…

But even if I did, what would I play? Temporary content in a game world that is completely derailed from the serious story I used to enjoy? Dailies/fractals in order to get ascended gear with no challenges and instead time barriers? Solo WvW on a dead server? Grinding gold for 5 months for a Legendary I have nothing enjoyable to use it on?

I still love the combat of this game more than any MMO I’ve played, and I love the story of this game as well. But the PvP is stale solo, I’ve lost a lot of enjoyment on my favorite class from frustrating build restrictions, and the core story hasn’t been touched. My old WvW guild collapsed, my old friends have moved on to other games. It’s such a daunting task just to play this game and try to have fun.

DR on skill usage would be cool.

example:

0.1 sec CD on each use for skills up to 5 sec cooldown
0.5 on skills 5-30 sec CD
1 sec on skills 30-60 sec CD
5 sec on skills 60+ sec CD

@Alarox, thanks a lot for your input, mate. It feels reassuring to hear from someone who’s also concerned about the state of the game. My main motivation to write so extensively on the subject is because I don’t want to see this game become another forgotten MMO.

I doubt my case and yours are a coincidence- all of my friends left, the guilds I was part of broke up, I hardly meet anyone when leveling my guardian alt, WvW commanders I knew have quit, the PvP scene is non – existent… That’s why these things should be pointed out! From the perspective of someone who’s been actively playing since release I can tell you this -the game feels empty and abandoned! Even if you forget all the criticism and call GW2 a “unique experience from WoW”, at the end of the day it’s an MMO – if the people you like playing with leave, chances are you will do the same! And you can either be ignorant and say “well my friends are still playing, so you’ve no idea what you’re talking about” or you can help provide feedback so these people can be brought back! I urge everyone who still loves Guild Wars 2 to consider this.

I mostly agree with OP, I am just amazed that GW2 has gone down the road of no reward for effort. I understand that casual players do not want this game to be a grind (neither do I). But honestly why can you not have both?

To casual players who do not want the game to be a grind I have one question. What is forcing you the casual player to grind? Just because the option is in the game to grind & farm does that mean you have to do it.

I fail to see how farming or grinding affects casual players unless it was tied directly to gear progression. In all reality it does not affect your ability to play or enjoy this game.

However this mindset of “random luck and gold farming nerfs is the way to go” is alienating a core part of the guild wars community.

I love a lot about this game and consider myself a loyal player, however even I am sad that the majority of my friends list, players that came over from GW1 no longer log on anymore. Due to these issues.

I really don’t get casuals at this point. They don’t want grind, yet that’s what the game offers them and somehow they always attempt to justify it. If the definition of Guild Wars 2’s end game is the “freedom to see everything without grinding”, then how come there’s so much grinding in this game?

You’re basically fine with hours of pointless repetition of content, as long as it doesn’t reward you with stat upgrades. So Arena.NET took the existing item hunt, removed what was exciting about it, locked the rest behind unreachable levels of farming or RNG boxes and that’s okay with you? Gear-grind is, and always has been, time-gated content. But so are legendaries, so is dungeon gear, so are WvW ranks, PvP ranks and well… mostly everything Guild Wars 2 defines as end-game! The only difference is they don’t even feel rewarding!

I’m honestly on the verge of quitting. The game is just so kitten boring. Seriously.
But on topic:
Great read; this guy speaks the truth. I want to play the game and have fun in the way I enjoy having fun in MMOs. I’m a little upset with the lack of progession overall in the game but that’s tolerable. But do NOT tell me that this game is filled with endgame features including 100% map completion. While yes, it can be considered as an activity to do once hitting the so called “end-game”, I do not enjoy running around and jumping for hours.

PS: Zerg vs Zerg sucks. End of.

Thanks for the contribution, JoakimFA. I added a paragraph called Endgame is a goal, not a time-sink. I hope it helps people who are aggressively against the hardcore audience understand what we’ve been requesting all this time.

I don’t get it and I’m tired of bumping this thread. Don’t you know Arena.NET can do better than this? Why should Guild Wars 2 become obsolete, when it had so much potential? If you don’t address the devs directly with proper feedback on what’s wrong, then what’s the point of even going to the forums in the first place? Brag about your extreme luck? Whine there’s no gear grind? Call this the “best MMO evUr”? No, Guild Wars 2 used to be a glorious game, possibly the best MMO ever. Now it’s sodding TERA with better graphics. Don’t believe me? Log in TERA (it’s free) and tell me what you see. An empty world, just like Tyria is now!

The problem with this thread is how disingenuous you are about it. You say fan boys aren’t helping the game, you say naysayers aren’t helping the game, only people who presumably agree with you are helping the game. But they’re only helping the game to become what people with your play style want it to be. That’s not helping the game. That’s helping people with your play style.

I’ve been called a blind fan boy by many many people, in spite of the fact that I’ve complained about a number of things in my time on the forum. Like you, I’m most interested in supporting MY play style.

As it happens, the direction of the game tends to go in my play style to begin with.

You claim this game isn’t all it can be. Well true. No game is actually all it can be, particularly MMOs. But sometimes, making the game all it can be to one portion of the playerbase will ruin it for others in the playerbase.

As the game stands, it’s doing a good job of supporting my play style. That, to some people. makes me a blind fan boy.

In truth, I’m not blind. I’m simply enjoying what the company has provided and hopes they’ll continue in the same direction moving forward.

I think that a lot of people agree with most of what you’ve said here. It’s just likely that the majority of those players have already moved on (like my entire original guild) or don’t bother responding anymore because they know they won’t get a response from anyone at Anet, and will end up just having to defend their opinion regardless of how constructive it is to other players who are quite satisfied with the state of the game.

I read your whole essay OP and the rest of the thread as well and it seems to me honestly to be just a very polite rant disguised as concern.
You make this clear by only responding to people who agree with you- so basically you don’t want to hear from people who are actually happy with the game.

I have given input and constructive criticism ( at least I think so) on these boards since launch.
Guess what?
I do love the game- I do not like RnG rewards, vertical progression and gated content because I feel it goes against what this game was advertised to be for years.

I couldn’t care less about Dontain and to be honest you lost a lot of credibility by even bringing up NCSoft, how they spend their money and Wildstar.
Wildstar is aimed at a different demographic and I see it as a complement not competition to GW2

To me your whole post does exactly what you accuse others of.
GW2 was designed the way it was by choice- you seem to be saying that their choices are wrong because you do not agree with it.

So no- I don’t agree with almost anything you say

Morrigan.2809:

I read your whole essay OP and the rest of the thread as well and it seems to me honestly to be just a very polite rant disguised as concern.
You make this clear by only responding to people who agree with you- so basically you don’t want to hear from people who are actually happy with the game.

I have given input , and constructive criticism ( at least I think so) on these boards since launch.
Guess what?
I do love the game- I do not like RnG rewards, vertical progression and gated content because I feel it goes against what this game was advertised to be for years.

I couldn’t care less about Dontain and to be honest you lost a lot of credibility by even bringing up NCSoft, how they spend their money and Wildstar.
Wildstar is aimed at a different demographic and I see it as a complement not competition to GW2

To me your whole post does exactly what you accuse others of.
GW2 was designed the way it was by choice- you seem to be saying that their choices are wrong because you do not agree with it.

So no- I don’t agree with almost anything you say

Well of course he doesn’t reply to us. We’re mindless fan boys and girls, brainwashed by Anet without a single thought in our own head…because we don’t agree with the “right-thinking” people who know what’s what.

Vayne.8563:

Morrigan.2809:

I read your whole essay OP and the rest of the thread as well and it seems to me honestly to be just a very polite rant disguised as concern.
You make this clear by only responding to people who agree with you- so basically you don’t want to hear from people who are actually happy with the game.

I have given input , and constructive criticism ( at least I think so) on these boards since launch.
Guess what?
I do love the game- I do not like RnG rewards, vertical progression and gated content because I feel it goes against what this game was advertised to be for years.

I couldn’t care less about Dontain and to be honest you lost a lot of credibility by even bringing up NCSoft, how they spend their money and Wildstar.
Wildstar is aimed at a different demographic and I see it as a complement not competition to GW2

To me your whole post does exactly what you accuse others of.
GW2 was designed the way it was by choice- you seem to be saying that their choices are wrong because you do not agree with it.

So no- I don’t agree with almost anything you say

Well of course he doesn’t reply to us. We’re mindless fan boys and girls, brainwashed by Anet without a single thought in our own head…because we don’t agree with the “right-thinking” people who know what’s what.

Vayne!
now I have coffee on my keyboard

I agree with a lot of your post, but your conclusion is wrong. Goals should be hard, but not hardcore. Hardcore, by definition, means playing more than 6 hours a day, 6 days a week. By that definition, hardcores are a small minority in every community including GW2. Let’s not ignore the simple fact that dedicating such hardcore amounts of time to a single hobby is not possible to people with either a job, partner or kids. And assuming hardcore people most likely don’t have a job, they’re not the most profitable group either.

So while I support hard content, it should be hard yet time efficient content. Most guild missions have short timers, leading to extremely hard yet short content. A good fractal run takes about 2 hours which isn’t hardcore yet hard. Even casuals like me can do a fractal run once a week.

Tier 3 Bounty: extremely hard, yet essentially 15 minutes of content
Swamp fractal: very hard for first timers, yet the shortest fractal of all.

That’s how I want my content, as a casual, because casual doesn’t mean easy either, it means time-limited.

So with that remark, I agree. Rewards should be more difficult to get, yet possible for casuals too. Fractals and legendaries really need a rework that depends less on RNG and more on skill.

As far as niche goes, I’ve enjoyed GW1 as a niche game, and many people enjoy EVE, even though it’s a niche game at best. 250k players is enough to make for a healthy MMO. I couldn’t be more happy if GW2 became a successful niche game.

Erasculio.2914:

Insignya.8625:

NCsoft won’t have problem scratching it off their investment schedule – if Wildstar becomes the next big thing you’ll see this game with so much potential suffer because of your inaction.

Meh. Wildstar will see the exact same thing that has happened to every other big MMO released in the past few years:

• A lot of MMO locusts will jump there as soon as it’s released. Initial game sales will be between 1.5 million and 2 millions.

• The MMO locusts don’t want to play Wildstar. They want an exact copy of their first MMORPG, which for most people was WoW, whether they realize it or not (there’s an interesting article about this kind of behavior here). After a few months playing the game, they realize that no, Wildstar is not a clone of whatever game they are thinking of, and begin leaving.

• Developers start to panic when they see those players leaving. They notice that most of them are the ones who asked for features seen in every other MMO (they do want a clone, after all), and so they begin frantically adding those features, often in a rushed way.

• The game becomes a bit worse, some of those players who wanted to play Wildstar and not a generic MMO begin to leave, the game continues to lose players and the developers continue to panic.

• Soon, the game goes free to play, tries to adapt to a business model it didn’t really expect, and claim to have one million registered players, most of which have played the game a few hours and then left.

My thoughts exactly.

Insignya.8625:

I really don’t get casuals at this point. They don’t want grind, yet that’s what the game offers them and somehow they always attempt to justify it. If the definition of Guild Wars 2’s end game is the “freedom to see everything without grinding”, then how come there’s so much grinding in this game?

Everyone joining this game based on the manifesto and GW1 knew grinding would only lead to cosmetic improvements. That’s the exact promise which still stands.

You’re basically fine with hours of pointless repetition of content, as long as it doesn’t reward you with stat upgrades.

Actually, yes. That’s what the whole point of this game is. I grinded hours and hours for max Luxon in GW1, which didn’t give any stat upgrades. If you expected different things, you simply didn’t inform yourself properly.

I’d like to offer a little insight from a most decidedly casual player …

But I’m not sure exactly, OP, what it is you want to hear? You say you “don’t get” casuals … what don’t you get? I like to be able to play a game, have fun, know I’m not obliged to do anything within a certain amount of time that failing to do would mean I was unable to progress in the game.

I don’t mind overmuch that I can’t do dungeons. I’d love to, but finding a group that puts up with casuals who are running Necro, Engi, Ranger builds for example is tricky – then co-ordinating to find the time … well. I’m casual, my time available is limited. But that’s fine. I haven’t screamed at ANet to make dungeons soloable. I am OK with missing out on dungeon armour etc.

Why? Because I know that I am able to get other items elsewhere and within my gaming restrictions.

But I find that recent content more and more seems to exclude players like myself unless I find the time to grind. Living story content is perfectly fine by me for the most part. Sure, I was sad I missed out on the Fused weapon skin tickets, but that’s OK. Do I think it would be better if they made the tickets still drop occasionally? Sure. Am I annoyed at the RNG for the Dragon’s Jade weapon skin tickets? Yes. Because it makes TIME such a priority, unless you get very lucky. And time is one thing I don’t have a huge amount of – and honestly, I do consider myself to be putting a LOT of time from what I have into this game.

Legendaries are a grind. There’s just no way to argue differently. Sure, you can take your time with it – they’re not gated in that sense. You DO, however, need to be able to either spend a LOT of money on the TP or have access to dungeons and possibly fractals (neither of which I do, as explained above). So in a sense they are gated. OK, OK, so I find a group to run dungeons with. Great. Now what? Now, well, after all that time and money invested, I have a random chance at a legendary with the mystic forge. Great! Not so much.

Why? Because the argument that I’m buying into a lottery so the RNG element is fine is totally NOT comparable. If I buy a lottery ticket, the ONLY effort I’ve put in is to go to the store and actually buy the ticket. It costs me no time and very little effort and a total of £1 for my chance at the lottery. The time, effort and potentially money put into a legendary doesn’t even compare. So yes, it isn’t a great system.

So I decide I won’t do it. That’s cool, right? It’s only a skin in the end, there’s minimal statistical advantage to getting a legendary. And, after all, I’m a casual player.

But, even with only these two examples, can you not see why any more content that limits my ability to progress in any way possible, would not exactly please me? If ANet want to add Raids, let them add Raids, but I won’t be pleased. Yet more stuff I can’t get. If vertical progression is added as a result of these Raids, I might as well forget it entirely.

I am not in any way saying players shouldn’t be rewarded for their time and effort. And I understand that the players that put time into content I haven’t should get something out of it that I can’t. But for this to work there NEEDS to be stuff available that I CAN get – even if I have to pay real cash for gem store items. This is why I’m so glad they added the Aetherblade armours to the gem store.

I don’t like to mindlessly repeat the same content over and over, no. I don’t think anyone does. This isn’t restricted to casuals. The difference with your perception over some others is that the content available to us isn’t fun for you anymore. If a person finds it fun, then it isn’t mindlessly boring and it isn’t a grind. For you, that may be dungeons or fractals, or vertical gear progression. Grinding for me is something I HAVE to do in order to progress. Some of the casual stuff is a grind. Yes. The effort vs reward is off-balance. Yes. Show me where we’ve disagreed on that point.

Casuals and hardcore gamers share a lot of the same frustrations. I think it is a mistake to say we don’t. But we differ in our expectations of how to alleviate these issues.

I can’t say whether or not I’ve offered any constructive criticism here for ANet. But hopefully, OP, you can understand my personal perspective a bit more.

I DO want to say … congratulations on your post. Seriously, I don’t know if I’ve even reached a point, as I’m trying to type this in between emails at work. I don’t know how you wrote such a long one initially and had it all make sense. And I really do note and appreciate the tone and the thought put in behind it.

Vayne.8563:

Well of course he doesn’t reply to us. We’re mindless fan boys and girls, brainwashed by Anet without a single thought in our own head…because we don’t agree with the “right-thinking” people who know what’s what.

It’s just an exercise in groupthink… not a big deal, I don’t expect much more in an internet forum.

The thing is, Anet will continue developing the game the way they want to, and the way they’re going seems to be anti-skinner box, story driven play for casual players who do not schedule their lives around the game. As long as doing this hits their revenue goals, they will continue to cultivate this market. Players who are not looking for this kind of game will continue to be disappointed and move on to other games. This is not a bad thing, the game doesn’t have to transform into WoW to be successful.

This game already has the foundation to cater to both types of players. As someone else stated earlier in this thread, it seems as though this first year is somewhat of an unofficial live beta test. So, give it time, I for one am hopeful that they can pull it off. If ArenaNet only catered to one certain play style, then I would assume they are limiting themselves financially. I just do not see that in the games longevity. There has to be something up ANETs sleeve for us hardcore players.

+1 OP I agree on almost every point.

Insignya.8625:

…

I’m so glad I’m not alone here… I agree with every single point you’ve made.

they chose a path by doing this living story thing, and in the next year we ll see where will that lead them to, i predict to a free to play model…

kosmo.2437:

they chose a path by doing this living story thing, and in the next year we ll see where will that lead them to, i predict to a free to play model…

If they do that, I’m gonna cancel my subscription.

tolunart.2095:

kosmo.2437:

they chose a path by doing this living story thing, and in the next year we ll see where will that lead them to, i predict to a free to play model…

If they do that, I’m gonna cancel my subscription.

LMAO! You beat me to it.

Insignya.8625:

…only problem is a ton of people started leaving so now the game’s on life support with Living Story updates. .

It is the life cycle of games that people leave and new people join. Also taking account the fact that retention gets lower every year compared from previous years due to more variety and available choices, it would be a normal trend in any games.

Unless we have any real numbers I doubt we can conclude it is on life support or not.

Insignya.8625:

Yes, in the end, everyone writes their side of the story in these forums. I haven’t seen a single comment that wasn’t biased and I doubt I ever will in any game.

Everything will be biased unless people have access to facts. The only people can give facts are the devs however as it is a business, it can also change depending on their management’s direction (which is why they tend to keep quiet on most things… to avoid any negative reaction when something changes).

Insignya.8625:

…had a grasp of what made Guild Wars 2 great to begin with.

What makes you think they don’t? I am betting that they have a better idea than the playerbase have.

Insignya.8625:

I didn’t really have anyone on the other end to reply to before Morrigan and marnick’s comment. Quoting Vayne is like stabbing yourself in the chest for no reason, I did it once and got infracted so not gonna bother.

@Morrigan, yes, as I said, this might sound opinionated. Awhile ago I had different thoughts about Arena.NET and this thread could’ve been written in a far more neutral manner. No one’s denying Guild Wars 2 is a great game, but to claim it was a conceived as a casual oasis from the start is just as biased as some of my statements. It was supposed to offer everyone something to do, only problem is a ton of people started leaving so now the game’s on life support with Living Story updates. Instead of fixing the initial problem, Arena.NET is just trying to mask it. That’s what I disapprove of.

Yes, in the end, everyone writes their side of the story in these forums. I haven’t seen a single comment that wasn’t biased and I doubt I ever will in any game. All I did was attempt to provide arguments for both sides of the conflict and explain that it shouldn’t really be a conflict if Arena.NET had a grasp of what made Guild Wars 2 great to begin with.

@marnick, if the game offered an actual challenge to getting these skins I wouldn’t mind it either. Most of the skins that were introduced via the Living Story are time-gated content, or do we disagree here? I’m not impressed by what people wear, because there’s no story to that gear, nothing memorable. Got a legendary? That’s a result of either extreme luck, CoF farming or real money, none of which define a heroic experience. So this is the problem, as you’ve said. The game needs hard, not time-gated content and I never did advocate the latter anywhere in my thread.

and yet you use terms like “us hardcores”, “you casuals” and ’facebook games"
I am sorry but I do not see that is presenting both sides- the language is pretty clear.

so Op I ask you- how do you think GW2 should cater to both styles of play?
What is it that you see as great about GW2?
What would you like to see more/less of?

Maybe then we can actually have a discussion

tolunart.2095:

kosmo.2437:

they chose a path by doing this living story thing, and in the next year we ll see where will that lead them to, i predict to a free to play model…

If they do that, I’m gonna cancel my subscription.

I think what he mean is that you don’t have to buy the main game, it can be downloaded for free (yea, wrong words used).

Insignya.8625:

I didn’t really have anyone on the other end to reply to before Morrigan and marnick’s comment. Quoting Vayne is like stabbing yourself in the chest for no reason, I did it once and got infracted so not gonna bother.

Right, because you’re all reasonable, and I’m a blind fan boy without a brain cell in my head.

I don’t agree with you, because I play games differently than you do. Other people do too.

Your lack of openness in considering the people who don’t play like you do is very evident in your choice of words. You attempt to appear reasonable, but you’re not actually being reasonable.

Zoldyck.6241:

tolunart.2095:

kosmo.2437:

they chose a path by doing this living story thing, and in the next year we ll see where will that lead them to, i predict to a free to play model…

If they do that, I’m gonna cancel my subscription.

I think what he mean is that you don’t have to buy the main game, it can be downloaded for free (yea, wrong words used).

Yes, I know. However, anyone who has bought the game – millions of people, exactly how many remains a point of speculation – can return to the game at any time for free, something you cannot do with a sub-based game.

Rift going free to play is a complete shift in their business model. A large portion of the players interested in a game like GW2 already own it, and Anet won’t make – or lose – any money based on whether they return or not. What exactly would giving the game away for free accomplish, other than increasing the population?

In fact it could even be to their benefit, as players who wouldn’t pay $60 for the game will often pay a lot more in small increments for cash shop items. So I don’t see how that kind of statement is a portent of doom – it’s already free to play for millions of people. I’ve spent a fraction of the money I spent on Rift playing this game, and I’ve enjoyed it more.