Guild Wars 2

Why did the people who want this gear treadmill even buy GW2 in the first place? Almost every single game company is making an MMO like that for you now, why can’t you go to one of them and leave us to play a fun game?

No Dev Blog yet? What happend :-(

Melonamen.1275:

My biggest concern with this thread it attitude. Everyone keeps saying this WILL ruin the game, when the fact is none of us has any idea what is actually going on.

That’s because it’s hard to imagine this being anything but an all-or-nothing issue. Think about it:

- If Ascended gear is significantly better than Exotic gear (let’s be specific and define that as ‘half the difference between Rare and Exotic gear, or greater’, to avoid misinterpretation), you have effectively downgraded every existing piece of equipment in the game, and now players have to upgrade to keep up; that’s more or less the definition of a gear treadmill.

- If Ascended gear is better than Exotic gear, but in such a minor, trivial way that even players who strongly prefer being at the ‘maximum’ power level won’t feel any significant pressure to have them (and for this to be true, you have to be talking about something on the order of like a 1-3% increase in effectiveness, tops), then what problem is it solving? The people who want to always be getting stronger are not going to be satisfied unless they are getting noticeably stronger, and the people who want to always be as strong as possible are still going to feel slighted, since what they perceive as one of the game’s most fundamental design principles is being gradually eroded against their wishes.

- If Ascended gear is exactly as powerful as Exotic gear, then that’s fine – but that’s also very hard to believe, because if it were the case, it would be easy for ArenaNet to step into this thread and say “They’re just Exotics and it’s a story/event/prestige thing; the fansites got it wrong, we’ll have the full information up later”, which would calm the entire issue down.

The first possibility actually does ruin the game for a significant number of people posting in this thread. The second possibility is not catastrophic, but seems misguided, not worth the effort, and bound to alienate more players than it interests. The third possibility just seems screamingly unlikely, although I (and many others) would be happy if it turned out to be the case.

Bringing the gear treadmill into GW2, even on a small scale is a fast way to lose my business. One of the biggest reasons I came to GW2 is that I can play with my friends, even if I don’t have tons of time to grind through dungeons for top of the line gear.

One of the reasons I enjoyed playing GW1 for so long was because I didn’t have to do the gear rat race.

I don’t need gear with better stats to keep me motivated to play. Diverse and creative content along with rewards that allow me to change the appearance and customize my character’s appearance is more than enough.

ArenaNet, please do not make this change.

spellchekc.5409:

No Dev Blog yet? What happend :-(

A raging fanboy killeded them all.

fixit.7189:

Last point like to make, with this new gear they will make older dungeons totally obsolete. Only reason to go back is for skins, other wise you would be wasting time getting inferior gear from them. Better to go to new dungeon. More and more this game is starting to look like that ‘other’ game. That is terrible imo.

and theres a reason to run them now after you’re in full exotics?

spellchekc.5409:

No Dev Blog yet? What happend :-(

This thread happened and now they are panicking at Anet HQ

Levetty.1279:

bcbully.7289:

Dogblaster.6713:

bcbully.7289:

Conner.4702:

bcbully.7289:

nachtnebel.9168:

Ayane Hajinmon.9165:

does no one on this forums play gw1? its just infuse armor >_<

That would be fine, but no of those articles sounds like that.

We have to wait for the official statement and until then we can’t do anything expect showing Arena Net that we won’t be happy if they would add a new tier of gear.

speak for yourself. I would be very happy.

Except you stopped playing after a month like you did TSW and went to WoW. Not to mention all the badmouthing you do about this game.

Gear treadmills is the worst type of content to keep people playing. As it is that’s exactly what they open the doors for with what is said.

Do I know you? I’m still subbed to TSW. What does any of this have to do with me being happy that Anet listened to it community and added progression?

What community your talking about ? Because Guild Wars was always played because it has horizontal progression. No gear progression in team of tiers or better stats ..

If you are talking about wow community .. okey then

What is the #1 complaint about this game? Lack of progression. Ascended armor is the answer to the question. Good for them for listening.

There is enough content for the “hardcore casual” give the rest of us something.

A very small amount of people wanted that and considering Anet made it clear all the way from when they first started showing the game off that there would be no treadmill then the people asking for it shouldn’t really be listened too as they don’t listen themselves.

You really think Anet designed a dungeon like this because only a small amount of people asked for it. I think Dog blaster is talking about since the game has been released. There isnt anything hard in the game except arah path 1,2, and 4. That is literally the hardest thing in the game.

WTB Dust of Transparency. 1000g

Arcos Cinya.8251:

Edewen.8304:

Jemmi.6058:

Also, to the community, I believe most of you should wait to see what happens before expressing your rage/intent to quit and/or other negative hyperbole.

The problem with this logic is that if players “wait and see” it will be too late because once players have their hands on and invest in the new armor set, the backlash would be that much worse if it was nerfed to the level it SHOULD be. This thread, while it may contain a lot of unnecessary i quit posts, it simply the community voicing loudly their opinions about a press release that was quite clear in its wording. The following is quoted from that press release. Clearly, people who bought into this game for its “No Gear Treadmill” mantra are going to be upset. We feel lied to. False advertisement is a problem and while people may have had a blast up until now, many will refuse to hop on the treadmill. Such is my American right. No more treadmills.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/11/12/guild-wars-2s-lost-shores-content-primer/

“The patch will introduce ascended items. Ascended armors are “slightly more powerful than exotics” and can, in some cases, hold slots for infusions. Infusions will allow you to increase your character’s power."

Signed.

I hope to see some more details that clear things up, till then i will hold on with my supportive monthly gem pruchase.

After ~7 years of Guild Wars it would be sad to say goodbye to arena.

/signed

Until I get more clarification, I too will be withholding gem purchases.

chasingfuries.9635:

fixit.7189:

Last point like to make, with this new gear they will make older dungeons totally obsolete. Only reason to go back is for skins, other wise you would be wasting time getting inferior gear from them. Better to go to new dungeon. More and more this game is starting to look like that ‘other’ game. That is terrible imo.

and theres a reason to run them now after you’re in full exotics?

Yes, different stat spreads and different looks. I keep different sets of gear for different weapons/situations.

Conner.4702:

spellchekc.5409:

No Dev Blog yet? What happend :-(

This thread happened and now they are panicking at Anet HQ

mhm they probably made the blog post and then accidentally deleted it because they where rushing to get it out to the masses.

spellchekc.5409:

No Dev Blog yet? What happend :-(

Being re-written, Ascended Items getting the same treatment as pre-release Legendaries.

oZii.2864:

Levetty.1279:

bcbully.7289:

Dogblaster.6713:

bcbully.7289:

Conner.4702:

bcbully.7289:

nachtnebel.9168:

Ayane Hajinmon.9165:

does no one on this forums play gw1? its just infuse armor >_<

That would be fine, but no of those articles sounds like that.

We have to wait for the official statement and until then we can’t do anything expect showing Arena Net that we won’t be happy if they would add a new tier of gear.

speak for yourself. I would be very happy.

Except you stopped playing after a month like you did TSW and went to WoW. Not to mention all the badmouthing you do about this game.

Gear treadmills is the worst type of content to keep people playing. As it is that’s exactly what they open the doors for with what is said.

Do I know you? I’m still subbed to TSW. What does any of this have to do with me being happy that Anet listened to it community and added progression?

What community your talking about ? Because Guild Wars was always played because it has horizontal progression. No gear progression in team of tiers or better stats ..

If you are talking about wow community .. okey then

What is the #1 complaint about this game? Lack of progression. Ascended armor is the answer to the question. Good for them for listening.

There is enough content for the “hardcore casual” give the rest of us something.

A very small amount of people wanted that and considering Anet made it clear all the way from when they first started showing the game off that there would be no treadmill then the people asking for it shouldn’t really be listened too as they don’t listen themselves.

You really think Anet designed a dungeon like this because only a small amount of people asked for it. I think Dog blaster is talking about since the game has been released. There isnt anything hard in the game except arah path 1,2, and 4. That is literally the hardest thing in the game.

Please read my post before responding to it as that response has nothing to do with what I wrote.

Vincent Von Demetri.1450:

---

BEFORE YOU FREAK OUT PLEASE READ***

Seems like everyone is getting bent out of shape on something we have NO wording from ArenaNet on. Please, trust in their decisions making before you jump to completely radical decisions. NOWHERE on the official page does it say anything about these being stronger than X, Y, or Z. We literally know nothing about these armor pieces, so please don’t jump to conclusions, wait for the OFFICIAL blogpost that ArenaNet said they will provide, and relax.

For those who want some sort of counterpoint to the discussions on here, take this alternative perspective for thought:

“Introducing Ascended items, artifacts of great power that can be improved by a special new type of upgrade called Infusions, which can be found in dungeons. Look for more information about Ascended gear soon!”

This to me sounds like these new ascended armors might be limited to the dungeon and the dungeon continues to get progressively harder perhaps requiring the upgrading of the armor itself to tackle the harder levels of the dungeon as it continues to grow. Perhaps this armor might be only useful against these Karka much like infused armor was only useful against the Mursaat. Perhaps, they’re introducing a sort of gear treadmill in one place for people that want a gear treadmill. IE – In a dungeon.

I had the exact same idea, and I hope we’re both right. This would be nice and please most of the players.

i will play naked a full day!
waht nobody want to group with me ! ?

fixit.7189:

This is not a good thing for Wv3, it will mean if you dont have this gear: you are dead meat. Also if you don’t have this gear; you will not be getting invites to dungeon runs due to the elitist PvEers.

“LF2m X dungeon; must link/show Ascended gear!”

Great, thanks Anet.

Ascended gear means that this game suddenly becomes just like every other MMO out there with their gear tread mills which ANet told us is not how they wanted this game to be. I guess they decided to throw that stance right out the window….

It really just depends on how its launched. If its like the infused armor from gw1 then it will have 0 effect in any content that does not have the mobs its designed for.

I want more info about these ascended armor sets, are they token based or RNG based drops ?

If RNG based shame on you A.net !!!

I hope its a full underwater set to comply mind “kitten” with ppl. I think it would be cool to have 2 set on your person at all time but you switch over to a water set when you go in the water vs your land set. Also it would be very funny to see the reaction of all this build up to just have it become a water set only.

SiNoS.2147:

It really just depends on how its launched. If its like the infused armor from gw1 then it will have 0 effect in any content that does not have the mobs its designed for.

The way it’s worded, you need a rare subset of a new specific kind of armor to even have the right to “infuse” it. What would you say if you could only infuse obsidian armor in GW1? Because it’s worded to look like it currently.

aocypher.9172:

Arcos Cinya.8251:

Edewen.8304:

Jemmi.6058:

Also, to the community, I believe most of you should wait to see what happens before expressing your rage/intent to quit and/or other negative hyperbole.

The problem with this logic is that if players “wait and see” it will be too late because once players have their hands on and invest in the new armor set, the backlash would be that much worse if it was nerfed to the level it SHOULD be. This thread, while it may contain a lot of unnecessary i quit posts, it simply the community voicing loudly their opinions about a press release that was quite clear in its wording. The following is quoted from that press release. Clearly, people who bought into this game for its “No Gear Treadmill” mantra are going to be upset. We feel lied to. False advertisement is a problem and while people may have had a blast up until now, many will refuse to hop on the treadmill. Such is my American right. No more treadmills.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/11/12/guild-wars-2s-lost-shores-content-primer/

“The patch will introduce ascended items. Ascended armors are “slightly more powerful than exotics” and can, in some cases, hold slots for infusions. Infusions will allow you to increase your character’s power."

Signed.

I hope to see some more details that clear things up, till then i will hold on with my supportive monthly gem pruchase.

After ~7 years of Guild Wars it would be sad to say goodbye to arena.

/signed

Until I get more clarification, I too will be withholding gem purchases.

/signed

There is a line that should not be crossed.

They people who don’t want progression reminds of the radical wing of a party. They have such absolute stances that they hurt the party as a whole.

Don’t cave to the “Hardcore Casual” radicals. Anet knows what good for the game.

Rainshine.5493:

chasingfuries.9635:

fixit.7189:

Last point like to make, with this new gear they will make older dungeons totally obsolete. Only reason to go back is for skins, other wise you would be wasting time getting inferior gear from them. Better to go to new dungeon. More and more this game is starting to look like that ‘other’ game. That is terrible imo.

and theres a reason to run them now after you’re in full exotics?

Yes, different stat spreads and different looks. I keep different sets of gear for different weapons/situations.

and when you have all you want/need? running them a lot to get your different stat setups is something that will also come to an end. imo it looks like this new thing will be an optional addition for people that want something to continually work towards.

I would just say that if you dont like gear grinds then just dont do it, but i know all of you will rage regardless cause jeez GOD FORBID anything get added to this game that caters to anything but casual fanboys

I for one welcome our new gear carrot overlords.

bcbully.7289:

They people who don’t want progression reminds of the radical wing of a party. They have such absolute stances that they hurt the party as a whole.

Don’t cave to the “Hardcore Casual” radicals. Anet knows what good for the game.

And because Arena Net knows what’s good for a game I still hope that there either was something wrong about the infos they leaked or that they changed their mind and don’t add any vertical progression at all.

I wouldn’t mind seeing Ascended back pieces. It wouldn’t make many things obsolete. Full armour sets of ‘better than exotic’ gear makes me a little edgy. But I’ll wait for more details before making a judgement call.

Half of you are the typical 2012 MMO players that whine when it’s too hard like this should be a sideways console game that gives you everything. The other half is like hell ya bring on real progression. Either way the devs can’t win.

Personally, put more true vertical progression in the game and give it more depth. More depth= good game. more casual=more console/cash shop genre.

Most of all, focus more on PvP because that’s what will get noticed in the esports world if that is truly what Anet claimed they want for the game. PvP has been largely ignored since launch.

chasingfuries.9635:

and when you have all you want/need? running them a lot to get your different stat setups is something that will also come to an end. imo it looks like this new thing will be an optional addition for people that want something to continually work towards

I play alts, so chances are my saved tokens will still be useful. Even so, I don’t run them that often so I won’t be facing that situation any time soon.

I don’t care so much about a stat that only affects one dungeon (though it does go against the “skill vs. gear” mantra Anet professed to have). I do care about things that affect everything else.

Gear treadmills are lazy and exploitive design. I’m sorry most people can’t seem to see that, and I’m not sure why they came to the one MMO out there without them, only to then demand them. You should read this article when you get the chance; its’ well written and it lays out how manipulative these systems are.

My roommate in college told me about a girl in his journalism class that played Guild Wars 1. I married her.
She posts on these very forums with much more passion and verve than I.
GW2 was supposed to be the game that revolutionized the genre to not be about the gear treadmill. After this article about gear creep, she and I just had a discussion about quitting MMOs altogether. I mean, in 30 years when games look like I’m in the Matrix, am I still going to be threatening to quit because my stats aren’t good enough anymore?

Change the MMO landscape like I know you can. You’ve got millions of us on your side!

ZZZZZZZZZ. Looks as if they mean to post the blog at 11:59

Natural.7013:

Half of you are the typical 2012 MMO players that whine when it’s too hard like this should be a sideways console game that gives you everything. The other half is like hell ya bring on real progression. Either way the devs can’t win.

Personally, put more true vertical progression in the game and give it more depth. More depth= good game. more casual=more console/cash shop genre.

Do you see this Arena Net?

This is the kind of playerbase you will be left with. This guy, right here, represents everyone in favor of vertical progression.

Still no official response yet

Its a shame that so many people are upset, a simple “no, these items will not be stronger than exotics” would calm the masses. I initially got the impression that Arenanet would be more communicative with the playerbase, but whenever I see the Arenanet logo on the forum, its just some manager closing the thread because the “question was answered”

Natural.7013:

Personally, put more true vertical progression in the game and give it more depth. More depth= good game. more casual=more console/cash shop genre.

“Depth” and “vertical progression” are two diametrically opposed ideas.

Natural.7013:

Half of you are the typical 2012 MMO players that whine when it’s too hard like this should be a sideways console game that gives you everything. The other half is like hell ya bring on real progression. Either way the devs can’t win.

Personally, put more true vertical progression in the game and give it more depth. More depth= good game. more casual=more console/cash shop genre.

You do know there are others ways to make a game harder than just making things hit harder and needing better gear to deal with it right? (which in turn makes all others things easier).

People are upset because we got sold a product with a main selling point of it not having a gear treadmill, they can make the game harder if they want (bring that on!) but they really don’t need to bring in the gear treadmill to do it.

Levetty.1279:

Why did the people who want this gear treadmill even buy GW2 in the first place? Almost every single game company is making an MMO like that for you now, why can’t you go to one of them and leave us to play a fun game?

Beautiful art, amazing combat system, awesome focus on sPvP, amazing WvWvW siege battles, Dynamic events, no traditional questing system… ect…

Most of the people I knew played for those reasons, no progression was the biggest turn off for most of them, they played in SPITE of that not Because of it.

Anet knows the numbers, we don’t, clearly they thought a change was needed, no progression was certainly the main complaint I saw for people leaving.

Natural.7013:

Half of you are the typical 2012 MMO players that whine when it’s too hard like this should be a sideways console game that gives you everything. The other half is like hell ya bring on real progression. Either way the devs can’t win.

Personally, put more true vertical progression in the game and give it more depth. More depth= good game. more casual=more console/cash shop genre.

I fail to see how adding items with higher stats, thus items making everything in the game easier is more depth. For all that matters, it makes every content designed for the older set of items trivial to complete and thus completely uninteresting to run, thus restricting you to a very limited amount of content at a set time in your GW2 career before you get the next tier of item that makes the next tier of content doable and obsoletes the tier you are currently on.

Crater.1625:

Natural.7013:

Personally, put more true vertical progression in the game and give it more depth. More depth= good game. more casual=more console/cash shop genre.

“Depth” and “vertical progression” are two diametrically opposed ideas.

Where’s the “vertical progression” in GW2 then? Because I sure don’t see any “Depth”. Go play Dark Souls, you might be surprised just how deep a game with vertical progression can be.

lacrimstein.5603:

Crater.1625:

Natural.7013:

Personally, put more true vertical progression in the game and give it more depth. More depth= good game. more casual=more console/cash shop genre.

“Depth” and “vertical progression” are two diametrically opposed ideas.

Where’s the “vertical progression” in GW2 then?

I think you missed the point.

well, the same forum that QQ about the lack of stuffs to do at lvl 80 now QQ about Anet adding more stuffs to do at lvl 80. The same forum also QQ about the lack of " PROGRESSION" now QQ about Anet adding progression.

I think the introduction of the new armor type is good .This will make “I-got-exotics-already-now-i-have-no-goal-or-motivation-to-play” people stays longer.

New goal and New motivation, I like the sound of it.

Crater.1625:

Natural.7013:

Personally, put more true vertical progression in the game and give it more depth. More depth= good game. more casual=more console/cash shop genre.

“Depth” and “vertical progression” are two diametrically opposed ideas.

I nearly spit out my coffee when he claimed that gear treadmills add depth of gameplay. It’s like “wat”.

hplee.2839:

well, the same forum that QQ about the lack of stuffs to do at lvl 80 now QQ about Anet adding more stuffs to do at lvl 80. The same forum also QQ about the lack of " PROGRESSION" now QQ about Anet adding progression.

I think the introduction of the new armor type is good .This will make “I-got-exotics-already-now-i-have-no-goal-or-motivation-to-play” people stays longer.

New goal and New motivation, I like the sound of it.

Why exactly do we want them to play longer?

They won’t stop with this. GW2 will never become an e-sport and the GW franchise will die not in a bang, but a whimper.

hplee.2839:

I think the introduction of the new armor type is good .This will make “I-got-exotics-already-now-i-have-no-goal-or-motivation-to-play” people stays longer.

And make all the “what? I got to regear all my exotic armor sets in that new higher quality? screw it!” people leave on the spot.

hplee.2839:

well, the same forum that QQ about the lack of stuffs to do at lvl 80 now QQ about Anet adding more stuffs to do at lvl 80. The same forum also QQ about the lack of " PROGRESSION" now QQ about Anet adding progression.

I think the introduction of the new armor type is good .This will make “I-got-exotics-already-now-i-have-no-goal-or-motivation-to-play” people stays longer.

New goal and New motivation, I like the sound of it.

The vast majority of us were in game playing because we liked no vertical climbs of pointlessness. Thats also why you didn’t see 1000 post threads on “no progression” as you do now, within a time frame of less than 12 hours. People were playing and having fun, and the few that weren’t whined and left. Now, the people who were playing and having fun, aren’t seeing too bright a sunrise. And there’s a lot of said people…

So who’s feedback is ANet going off of here?

aaron.7850:

Still no official response yet

Its a shame that so many people are upset, a simple “no, these items will not be stronger than exotics” would calm the masses. I initially got the impression that Arenanet would be more communicative with the playerbase, but whenever I see the Arenanet logo on the forum, its just some manager closing the thread because the “question was answered”

They already said that they would be more powerful. What more of an explanation do you need?

Look you don’t have to go for ascended gear if you don’t want to.

aaron.7850:

Its a shame that so many people are upset, a simple “no, these items will not be stronger than exotics” would calm the masses.

The fact no such thing has been said is a very bad omen.

bcbully.7289:

aaron.7850:

Still no official response yet

Its a shame that so many people are upset, a simple “no, these items will not be stronger than exotics” would calm the masses. I initially got the impression that Arenanet would be more communicative with the playerbase, but whenever I see the Arenanet logo on the forum, its just some manager closing the thread because the “question was answered”

They already said that they would be more powerful. What more of an explanation do you need?

Look you don’t have to go for ascended gear if you don’t want to.

That is the big question.

If it affects general PvE or especially WvW – then yes, yes we do.
If not, then why didn’t they just say so in a quick one line post?

Erasculio.2914:

The fact no such thing has been said is a very bad omen.

*PR reply pending crisis analysis.

lacrimstein.5603:

Where’s the “vertical progression” in GW2 then?

You have to level from 1 to 80, which either takes dozens and dozens of hours or requires you to bypass it all through sheer force of bank account by crafting your way there. You need to upgrade to Exotic equipment once you hit 80 – plus runes, sigils, etc – which, at a very conservative estimate of 1.5g per piece, runs you at least 20-30g.

That’s way more vertical progression than I’d like as it is. I can tolerate it only knowing that once you do that, it ends, and you can finally actually just play.

Vena.8436:

hplee.2839:

well, the same forum that QQ about the lack of stuffs to do at lvl 80 now QQ about Anet adding more stuffs to do at lvl 80. The same forum also QQ about the lack of " PROGRESSION" now QQ about Anet adding progression.

I think the introduction of the new armor type is good .This will make “I-got-exotics-already-now-i-have-no-goal-or-motivation-to-play” people stays longer.

New goal and New motivation, I like the sound of it.

The vast majority of us were in game playing because we liked no vertical climbs of pointlessness.

The thing is, every possible indicator shows that more people have left the game than are playing. The need people to play and buy from the cash shop, that is if you want an expansion. Progression helps them do this.

Why are people even crying over this issue? Full Exotic gear still makes you MORE than capable of doing 99% of the content in the game (besides the end of this new dungeon). The people crying right now have no idea if they will be easy to get and I’m willing to bet there will be a “chance” to get ascended gear in every dungeon chest now which will go with what Anet said on fixing dungeon rewards. I’m happily looking forward to it now. (time to actually kill Khoeler in AC)