Guild Wars 2

GW1 didn’t thrive on people going around capping skills. It thrived on the PvP meta game that ANET constantly changed through “balancing” to keep it fresh. The PvE in GW1 was decent enough to keep enough people playing and buy character slots, bank slots, etc to keep the game getting revenue until the E-sport players came back with the introduction of new classes and skills.

GW2, while not taking the same model, was easily thriving off of what it had. People buying the game and quitting after a few months was in the game best interest and part of ANET’s business model. The cash shop was/is perfect for revenue generation during holiday/special events and random pick-me-ups (bank slots etc). Gear grind progression wasn’t needed to keep the game generating revenue. Its the reason why people are tiring of MMOs and play them like single player games (beat them and quit). GW2 was different in that ANET KNOWS THIS IS THE CASE and designed the game in a way that allows people to do that, but come back to experience new content at will. With the agony system, this isn’t possible if it become a staple for future end game content unless each new “dungeon” get its own armor system which actually would be kinda cool

I for one do not like this new gear grind. I was happy with exotics being the end game and legendary’s just being skins. Now legendary’s will give a performance boost over exotics? What were they thinking????

This is pretty much turning against the principles gw2 was suppose to stand for.

For those expecting a treadmill to come out of this, there will be one, but not for the gear. Ascended will most likely remain the top tier “raid”-styled (from dungeons only) gear from now on.

Where the treadmill will take place is with the infusion slot items. Since their rarity will be fine, that means they still have room for masterwork, rare, exotic and ascended, which will probably be used for future dungeons. As you can imagine, a mostly full set of infused gear will probably be required to start progressing through the next dungeon where 1 masterwork infusion will probably equal 2 fine.

But then, what happens when they reach ascended ascended? I would expect an expansion to be out before then, increasing the level cap and completely resetting everything again, with them adding “does not work past level 80” on old infused pieces.

If a full set of ascended gear will be obtainable after the first dungeon is completely done, they’ll probably allow it to be, at least partially, crafted for the next one. If it’s really supposed to be rare though, the first dungeon might only yield up to 4 pieces, making it take an additional 2 future dungeons to fully complete a set.

Also remember that loot drops are being changed. Bosses will probably have a higher chance to drop exotics now, including chests and champions. Exotics will probably be too easy to obtain now.

Anyways I’m seeing a lot of tears so I’m heading out, stop complaining about treadmills it will do NO good, they are coming deal with it, and maybe send a thank you to anet for ensuring the longevity of your game.

I don’t mind ascended Items. I think like my char: If enemies become stronger, we need better defenses against them, just that.

Yes to new content
Yes to new dungeon
Yes to new cosmetic armors
Don’t mind stats or gear progr.

Nar.8327:

fellyn.5083:

Nar.8327:

fellyn.5083:

I don’t see how anyone can hate them when we don’t even know exactly how it’s going to work.

Drama queens.

P.S. No where did Anet ever say exotics would be the final tier of armor. People just assumed that. The only clarification they need to address if they will be making more tiers of higher powered armor in the future.

https://d2vn94glaxzkz3.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Ascended-EN.png

This image shows us everything we need to know to be concerned.

So? All that shows is a ring that is slightly better than an exotic. Perhaps you should go back and reread what I said.

Here are the facts: that ring is statistically superior to ANY ring in the game at the current time with that specific stat combination. It doesn’t matter by how much, what matters is that any ring you might have obtained in the last three months will not be as powerful as the rings from this new update.

What it means is that, anyone who walked away from the game before this update, for any reason, will return after the update to find that their gear is no longer the best. What concerns us as players is not this individual item, but the precedent it sets, where each update’s items are slightly more powerful. In the industry, this is called “power creep.” If you don’t keep playing, you’ll be left behind.

Many of us have played many MMOs, and we feel that we were lead here under the pretense that we would be given a game where we would not have to put up with this again. And for three months, we thought we were right – until tonight – hence why so many people are up in arms.

And? You don’t know how it’s actually going to work. You’re basing all this on a small article that leaves a lot to the imagination and speculation and people are completely over reacting at this point.

Wait until further explanation or for the actual update to see how it works before getting all worked up.

Also it’s likely we’ll be able to craft ascended tier items. Otherwise that would make crafting professions completely pointless outside of making legendaries.

Well anet. Game over. What a terrible kittening decision.

Khemizt.5104:

Anyways I’m seeing a lot of tears so I’m heading out, stop complaining about treadmills it will do NO good, they are coming deal with it, and maybe send a thank you to anet for ensuring the longevity of your game.

“Here’s a bunch of facts I made up. Okay, bye guys!”

Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

Redtah.3016:

They already said they didn’t want gear treadmills and they are adding them. Whats to say they won’t add another tier of gear? There’s nothing its been not even 3 months and they went back on their word, why would I trust them to keep it this time?

Also if your already bored because there’s no gear progression you think you won’t be bored after you get 3 items….? Then 4 months from now you’ll get another 3 and quit for 4 months. What the hell is the point?

I’m as big a GW fan as anyone. I played the original from the beginning. All I’m trying to do is shine light on why this rage is so silly.

This is an impossible argument, which is why I don’t understand it. You say they’re adding a treadmill. I say no, they’re adding ONE new tier. That doesn’t instantly equate to abandoning all their principles. There’s been gear progression the entire time. White —> Orange. No one complained. OMG THEY’RE ADDING PURPLE, THE WORLD IS GOING TO END.

Why can’t I just write a neutral post and not be attacked? I repeat, I understand every. single. concern. I don’t want gear creep either. But the way GW2 is structured is radically different from the raiding progression of other MMOs. Adding one new tier doesn’t change that.

Constructive feedback. Let’s make sure ANet stops here. Let’s not act like rabid badgers.

Nay.

Was excited about Lost Shores weekend, now I won’t even attend. Quitting the game temporarily, perhaps permanently.

Yes to a new gear rarity level.
Yes to a new gear rarity level with better stats.
Yes to a new and final level of the power plateau, until such time that the level cap is raised by an expansion.
Definitely No to a power creep gear treadmill.

YES
Very Excited. As long as it doesnt look kitteny or is RNG depentend it only improves the game.

My God, you folks are so kitten hilarious, complaining and complaining, Anet makes the game the way they want, enjoy it and shut the hell up or LEAVE QUIETLY because, like you used to tell us (the guys that enjoy progression instead of dressing up like barbie dolls) this is not the game for you.

Take a chill pill and go play sims or buy a doll.

Well, I was waiting till we had more information before getting annoyed.
Now I’m very very annoyed.
This new tier has torn the heart out of GW2, replacing it with an unwanted mess that’s interchangable with any other MMO.

Why would they possibly think this was a good idea? The majority were happy with what was there already – it’s why many of us chose this game over other options.
The vocal minority who wanted gear progression should have been told to shut up and deal with it, just like they were in GW1. And those people STILL won’t be satisfied as they’re after a bigger gap than they have.

Thanks for rewarding all our support by ruining everything.

Yes I am excited, i can make a exotic armor in a few days, already have 3 full sets (karma, crafting and tokens), a new tier whit a new way to get it sounds very interesting to me.

To this day, GW1 remains the only MMO that ever did it right. Which is the platform GW2 ran on as its manifesto, and then promptly abandoned to reveal it was just another MMO. Hence the anger and frustration. People who say the treadmill is the only way are people who either never played GW1, or barely played a few hours of it.

Sometimes I get the feeling most of the current ANet staff never played GW1 either, or they wouldn’t be kitten the franchise with gold sinks, crappy combat, prolonged grinds, terrible build systems, trading post obsessions, an empty endgame, an isolated and deserted and ignored PvP and an overall contempt for its own playerbase coupled with selling its very soul to the unwashed WoW masses in an effort to find a bigger paycheck. GW1 was a game that did what GW2 claimed it wanted to do. I think we all should have known better when it was already clear that GW2 was a step backwards from the first game (and a minor step forwards for most MMO players, as they’re ignorant and don’t know any better). It’s apparent that whatever the modern incarnation of this company is, they are not equipped to deliver the game gamers have been waiting for.

Alice.8694:

Yes to a new gear rarity level.
Yes to a new gear rarity level with better stats.
Yes to a new and final level of the power plateau, until such time that the level cap is raised by an expansion.
Definitely No to a power creep gear treadmill.

I think you’ve got the right perspective. No where did Anet ever say exotics were intended to be the final tier of equipment. Especially considering all of this has likely been in the works for months, if not before the game was even released.

fellyn.5083:

Nar.8327:

fellyn.5083:

Nar.8327:

fellyn.5083:

I don’t see how anyone can hate them when we don’t even know exactly how it’s going to work.

Drama queens.

P.S. No where did Anet ever say exotics would be the final tier of armor. People just assumed that. The only clarification they need to address if they will be making more tiers of higher powered armor in the future.

https://d2vn94glaxzkz3.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Ascended-EN.png

This image shows us everything we need to know to be concerned.

So? All that shows is a ring that is slightly better than an exotic. Perhaps you should go back and reread what I said.

Here are the facts: that ring is statistically superior to ANY ring in the game at the current time with that specific stat combination. It doesn’t matter by how much, what matters is that any ring you might have obtained in the last three months will not be as powerful as the rings from this new update.

What it means is that, anyone who walked away from the game before this update, for any reason, will return after the update to find that their gear is no longer the best. What concerns us as players is not this individual item, but the precedent it sets, where each update’s items are slightly more powerful. In the industry, this is called “power creep.” If you don’t keep playing, you’ll be left behind.

Many of us have played many MMOs, and we feel that we were lead here under the pretense that we would be given a game where we would not have to put up with this again. And for three months, we thought we were right – until tonight – hence why so many people are up in arms.

And? You don’t know how it’s actually going to work. You’re basing all this on a small article that leaves a lot to the imagination and speculation and people are completely over reacting at this point.

Wait until further explanation or for the actual update to see how it works before getting all worked up.

And? He stated why he doesn’t like it. It doesn’t leave any speculation on his over all point, which is that exotics for rings are no longer the best items. ANET shouldn’t have given these items better stats, just that nifty mechanic. They could of also given PvEers items that are good against a new mob type, that are just as good as exotics in every other way, but needed to kill the new mob type.

ANET went back on horizontal progression. Thats all people need to know.

Well they say you get these items from these dungeons. We first have to see how it works, when do you get these items? How often they drop?

You have a point though. Most random parties will soon start demanding specific gear else you will not complete the dungeon, this could be an outcome but it all depends how Anet makes it.

It doesn’t matter how often they drop. They are now the best items in the game for that specif type by simple virtue of having better stats. They could drop from every mob you fight and it wouldn’t matter (we know they don’t since they are rare than exotics which means gear grind treadmill more), the fact is Horizontal progression no longer exist.

Death by Chickens.6902:

Redtah.3016:

They already said they didn’t want gear treadmills and they are adding them. Whats to say they won’t add another tier of gear? There’s nothing its been not even 3 months and they went back on their word, why would I trust them to keep it this time?

Also if your already bored because there’s no gear progression you think you won’t be bored after you get 3 items….? Then 4 months from now you’ll get another 3 and quit for 4 months. What the hell is the point?

I’m as big a GW fan as anyone. I played the original from the beginning. All I’m trying to do is shine light on why this rage is so silly.

This is an impossible argument, which is why I don’t understand it. You say they’re adding a treadmill. I say no, they’re adding ONE new tier. That doesn’t instantly equate to abandoning all their principles. There’s been gear progression the entire time. White —> Orange. No one complained. OMG THEY’RE ADDING PURPLE, THE WORLD IS GOING TO END.

Why can’t I just write a neutral post and not be attacked? I repeat, I understand every. single. concern. I don’t want gear creep either. But the way GW2 is structured is radically different from the raiding progression of other MMOs. Adding one new tier doesn’t change that.

Constructive feedback. Let’s make sure ANet stops here. Let’s not act like rabid badgers.

They wont stop. Once they implemented such a system and got rid of the poeple who dislike it, they can’t stop it, people will cry out for more and they will bend like they did this time…

This is what you get for not shouting down every single “WAH WAH I WANT GEAR PROGRESSION AT ENDGAME” post that was posted on the forum over the past 8 weeks.

They are seeing those, seeing nobody disagree with them, and assuming that is public opinion.

It’s pretty clear from everyone’s responses here that we DONT want gear grind.

Well that’s great, I don’t want it either, but we have to speak up against people asking for it in the forums and elsewhere otherwise Anet will give them it.

Play the game, enjoy it, but for god’s sake log on to the forums once in a while to say that you like it the way it is and please don’t change it. If you don’t, stuff like this happens because the vocal minority have a powerful voice.

roguenub.1409:

People complain that theres no endgame, now people complain that theres more to accomplish? You complain about something that you haven’t even witnessed for yourself yet. Exotics aren’t even hard to get, and not considered a grind if you’re not in a hurry. This game needs something more to strive for, and they’re providing it.

Some people complained about there being no end game while a lot enjoyed the existing dungeons, s/tPvP or WvW. Now a lot of people are complaining because the might be a gear treadmill.

It’s a huge difference. People were kinda okay with the lack of endgame as we know it from WoW and co, but they most definitively would hate any kind of additional gear grind.

fellyn.5083:

Alice.8694:

Yes to a new gear rarity level.
Yes to a new gear rarity level with better stats.
Yes to a new and final level of the power plateau, until such time that the level cap is raised by an expansion.
Definitely No to a power creep gear treadmill.

I think you’ve got the right perspective. No where did Anet ever say exotics were intended to be the final tier of equipment. Especially considering all of this has likely been in the works for months, if not before the game was even released.

And where will this final tier of equipment ever end?

Some people are going to “provide vocal feedback” about the lack of an endgame a few weeks (or days) into the introduction of Ascended items.

No, they promised no gear mill and now they do this!? Liars!

If I wanted to buy a gear grind tread mill game I wouldn’t of bought GW2. Now, if ANET plans on keeping this POS system that is reason why MMOs are stale (GW2 was actually a breath of fresh air) I won’t bother playing the game, picking it back up when new expansion come out, or spending another dime in the gem store (and I’ve already spent $200+). You will lose us ANET, and we would have been the people to keep your profitable for years just like GW1. Now you have catered to the fickle MMO crowd who will eat up your content and quit when the next shiny kitten is released. Hop you are happy.

No, I hate the new ascended items.

Talloc.6835:

Khemizt.5104:

Anyways I’m seeing a lot of tears so I’m heading out, stop complaining about treadmills it will do NO good, they are coming deal with it, and maybe send a thank you to anet for ensuring the longevity of your game.

“Here’s a bunch of facts I made up. Okay, bye guys!”

Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

Everything I have stated is factual, Anet is not a democracy it’s a business, if they are making a descision this game impacting best believe it’s to make money, they clearly realize this will make people angry but overall it’s going to get them more customers, google anything I’ve said if you need facts.

The sooner you realize this the sooner you will stop making these threads.

Chamone.6890:

This is what you get for not shouting down every single “WAH WAH I WANT GEAR PROGRESSION AT ENDGAME” post that was posted on the forum over the past 8 weeks.

They are seeing those, seeing nobody disagree with them, and assuming that is public opinion.

It’s pretty clear from everyone’s responses here that we DONT want gear grind.

Well that’s great, I don’t want it either, but we have to speak up against people asking for it in the forums and elsewhere otherwise Anet will give them it.

Play the game, enjoy it, but for god’s sake log on to the forums once in a while to say that you like it the way it is and please don’t change it. If you don’t, stuff like this happens because the vocal minority have a powerful voice.

Speak for yourself, man. When do people get it that their opinion =/ everbodys opinion.
I prefer (as in I DO WANT) the gear progression over RNG-Skins (of which only 3 of them are worth farming anyways).
Play the game, enjoy it, but for god’s sake log on to the forums once in a while to say that you DONT like it the way it is and please DO change it. If you don’t, stuff like this doesnt happen because the vocal minority has a powerful voice.

Guilds and groups will now be requiring players to have a gear requirement to even play a dungeon with them.

Instead of adding a new tier of items to go deeper into the dungeon. AN could add buffs along the way that would stack in the dungeon. Increasing your states the deeper you go.

Now that GW2 is “just another MMO”, I (and many others) will be far more likely to pick up the next newest, most shiny MMO that’s “just another MMO”. Elderscrolls Online is supposed to have a native Mac-client, not the encapsulated WINE-thing the GW2 Mac beta sells as “Mac-Version”.

I doubt I really have anything to add, but on the other hand I wanted to add my voice to the “gear progression is a serious punch in the gut” side of things. I played guild wars one, and I was happy with my max gear. I ran Domain of Anguish, and it was hard because I wasn’t very good at it yet, not because my gear sucked. And I beat it because my team figured out all it’s tricks and improved their skills, not because we got better loot. I’m hardly going to scream about refunds and quitting the game, but I’m kind of…hurt. I’m disappointed.

Why people afraid gear grinding so much ? People stucked into 2 pvp options 3w aka zergfest. But there is a beatiful map out there to explore dungeons and good pve mechanics. PVE doesnt mean gear grinding anet is not pointin a gun to your head to grind or leave :!?!. And legendary grinding is kinda grinding.

You dont cry for lack of pvp events in the game but you cry for item grinding which is not going to effect zergfest that much.

And lets focus grinding process Ive got 3 sets of craft knight cleric and berserker in 2 weeks in my warrior what a long time. And I also have CoF set TA set.

So much grinding yeah.

If you play casual which I do now like 1 hrs or 2 hrs in a day this features are great they are not game changer, There is nothing bad for gear grinding. Its not effective as wow.

People grinding karma and gold. Thats MUCH MORE silly than grinding items sorry but pve is needed.

Exotics still good ascended items wont make much different imo it will be next step for people who already done with so called grinding.

*sorry for bad english.

Wow, I started reading this and thought “Surely ArenaNet can’t be THAT stupid?”.
Then I read that blog entry and discovered that yes in fact they ARE that stupid.

I’m severely disappointed with this move and how it panders to an audience not from the original game but from other more traditional MMOs.
Gear tiers are something I had hoped ArenaNet had finally killed, yet they fall back on them instead of exploring more interesting alternatives.

So what happens in another 3 months time?
Another set of gear gets released making this new set worthless?

Can I get some material refunds ArenaNet?
I had thought I’d acquired maximum level gear. I had thought I wouldn’t need to worry about grind and could get on with the business of actually playing.
Turns out I was wrong, and I’ve been mis-sold an entire game that just now chooses to renege on one of the central tenets (if not THE central tenet) of their “Manifesto”.

What happened guys?
Have all the people who worked on the first game left or something?

Is this the beginning of the end?..
Did Anet finally give in the “whining” of the minority?….

This new “item progression initiative” will only push me further and further away from the PvE scenario, you will never please players used to games like WoW or similar, they’re entangled in that “ohh shinyyy” nightmare which force them to go and farm for the next " +1 strenght" sword so they can say :" Lol dude I’m so kitten I’ve got the XYTERUHJ +1 wisdow mace".

What did happen to the “only cosmetic rewards” mentality?
When will this stop but more than anything will it stop at PvE or spread to PvP?

-EDIT- This is the wrong section, can a moderator pls move this thread to the correct section?

Another thread also pointed out this quote from an interview with Mike O’Brien where he said:

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs”.

Yea, right…

I voted
I love GW2 because of how it’s basic design philosophy distinguishes it from other MMO’s
This is a very very bad decision.

Toggles.1783:

fellyn.5083:

I think you’ve got the right perspective. No where did Anet ever say exotics were intended to be the final tier of equipment. Especially considering all of this has likely been in the works for months, if not before the game was even released.

Shouldn’t legendaries denote the final tier?

Legendaries will be made to match ascended when they give us access to ascended weapons.

Chamone.6890:

This is what you get for not shouting down every single “WAH WAH I WANT GEAR PROGRESSION AT ENDGAME” post that was posted on the forum over the past 8 weeks.

We get a infraction every time someone says someone else’s idea is bad.

for the lulz

? dont get it.. its PVE part of the game, no impact on us PvPers..

No, no, no!

As a GW1 player I too feel it’s an utter betrayal I trusted ANet and I’m hugely disappointed that they have thrown away both their principles and their promises and that they’ve done it so quickly! What 3 months?

Can they really be unaware that this vocal minority screaming “make it just like WoW” are just that a minority. The majority of players are enjoying the game without ever coming near the forums. Yeah I guess they can. And in true MMO style once they begin to listen and cater to the few – good games become bad games rapidly.

More content yes of course and Cantha and Elona expansions please! Gear grind, Agony gimmicks, well…just makes me want to cry.

Well..looks like www and pve is now WoW infected. Only safe oasis now is spvp. I hope they wont add treadmil for spvp -_-

Dude, if you want to make a serious pool, make a serious pool!
Just make a pool with yes or no! why complicate with your passionate interpretion of things like “I am going to cry and leave”?
Just make a mature pool like this:
Do you agree with the ascended gear being introduced?
1- Yes
2- No
3- No opinion

And that is all. This is the only way you can make an unbiased and valuable pool.
Good luck with it

Khemizt.5104:

There is no other way to make a MMO other than using the treadmill. Theres no progression without a treadmill… How do you guys not see that, how can sitting in the same gear since you turned level 80, and downing bosses that don’t vary in toughness be fun!?

Gear progression is not bad as long as it doesn’t make you unbeatable in pvp. The stats I see on the rings are more than a little better, but ok. A game can also have new story content and the gear can be part of this, but it shouldn’t be the only thing.

I am still laughing about marketing people being smarter then us part his reply…lol

They are not smart at all they are thinking that competitors have tier progression , they are making money , ergo if we copy them we will make money too. Thats the whole chain of tought they have.

But if i wanted tier progression mmo , i can go play WoW with panda’s and TON of more end game content, i can go play rift with its new expension, neither game the the bugs of this game possess, and have pve content that designed alot better than this game.

I like the world they created, i like the jumping puzzles , i like the awesome armor and weapon skins, i like the WvW and that medieval war feeling they managed to capture so nicely.

And the most i like about this game is that Skill>gear and even to some extremes Skill>level.

Thats what they are changing and that is whats annoying.

But i thinki got my money’s worth with this game by alot. If they continue with this changed design philosophy then i ll just move on to an other game.

Mungrul.9358:

Turns out I was wrong, and I’ve been mis-sold an entire game that just now chooses to renege on one of the central tenets (if not THE central tenet) of their “Manifesto”.

When I think back to that and how excited I was after watching it, I feel like I could just throw up. Manifesto. All about the player. <insert lots of kittens> A bunch of useless lies to scam us into buying and hyping a game that’s riddled with bugs.

Yes i like this

No. Terrible decision and if it goes ahead I will not play. Simples.

Hrafn.7638:

Speak for yourself, man. When do people get it that their opinion =/ everbodys opinion.
I prefer (as in I DO WANT) the gear progression over RNG-Skins (of which only 3 of them are worth farming anyways).
Play the game, enjoy it, but for god’s sake log on to the forums once in a while to say that you DONT like it the way it is and please DO change it. If you don’t, stuff like this doesnt happen because the vocal minority has a powerful voice.

From what I’ve seen/read/experienced those players who do want to be able to work towards a new tier of gear with minimal increase in stats are those for whom money, or making money, in the game is no issue. We all know the price of legendary materials will now sky-rocket, making those of us who couldn’t afford them already even further away from that goal. Yea sure, noone cares. I get that. Anyone who is anyone already has their legendary and 500 Gold just sitting in the bank.

If this idea of Ascended gear came out a year after release it wouldn’t be such a big deal. But less than 3 months? In another 3 months do we get another tier? Then another 3 months after that? Will the gear cap just get further and further away for many of us?

Looking forward to the “Legendary/Ascended only” groups.