Guild Wars 2

Talloc.6835:

Mike O’Brien posted:
Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.

You missed the last part of the quote.

“Unless it’s just, like, four points, or something. Because who cares about that, am I right?”

Try a pool like this: http://poll.pollcode.com/fr744l
Simpler, and meaningful… And actually helpful!

Having a category saying “I will leave blah blah” (which everyone that is overreacting is voting on) serves who? You have 3 NO and 1 Yes. This is no pool mate!
Anyway… I REALLY believe a pool like the one I presented is much more useful! But that’s just me…

Death by Chickens.6902:

Redtah.3016:

They already said they didn’t want gear treadmills and they are adding them. Whats to say they won’t add another tier of gear? There’s nothing its been not even 3 months and they went back on their word, why would I trust them to keep it this time?

Also if your already bored because there’s no gear progression you think you won’t be bored after you get 3 items….? Then 4 months from now you’ll get another 3 and quit for 4 months. What the hell is the point?

I’m as big a GW fan as anyone. I played the original from the beginning. All I’m trying to do is shine light on why this rage is so silly.

This is an impossible argument, which is why I don’t understand it. You say they’re adding a treadmill. I say no, they’re adding ONE new tier. That doesn’t instantly equate to abandoning all their principles. There’s been gear progression the entire time. White —> Orange. No one complained. OMG THEY’RE ADDING PURPLE, THE WORLD IS GOING TO END.

Why can’t I just write a neutral post and not be attacked? I repeat, I understand every. single. concern. I don’t want gear creep either. But the way GW2 is structured is radically different from the raiding progression of other MMOs. Adding one new tier doesn’t change that.

Constructive feedback. Let’s make sure ANet stops here. Let’s not act like rabid badgers.

“This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.”

I know this will just be lost and never read by anet, but gotta say, REALLY disappointed. So looking forward to not having to worry about what tier armor I need to get, or what resists I need to play a game. Now I gotta start looking for a raiding guild and go through all that BS again if I want to “advance” my character. No thanks. Guess I wont be starting that Guardian.

Didnt take long a couple of months and everything is out the window. Well at least we know nothing is sacred and this isnt the game they said it was just a few months ago in all those posts and videos.
Full gear grind now and play the way they want you to LOL

ARENA NET THINK ON WHAT YOU ARE DOING IMAGINE THIS SCENARY :

you now put this item progression, you’ll lose more then half player base, all the peoples who filled you server till now ( all full/high except 4 on medium ) and you will gain more peoples ( hard ) but imagine you will gain another 2 millions peoples, when another classic themepark will be release ( the elder scroll online) with gear progression and all all the peoples you had acquired by putting the gear progression will surely LEAVE, and you lose both type of players, THINK ON IT you can’t turn back once you’ve taken your path, betraying can’t be forgiven!

Honestly I am not expecting an accurate or unbiased result from this post. I in fact voted:
Not very happy about it but will grind it

I simply took the most popular responses from the forum and put them in poll form because it is hard to get an accurate measure of the number of people saying what in a forum setting.

If none of the responses are accurate to you, then you can post that here

So… Jrunyon and Valtameri, are you two saying then that this is a good idea?

Like, of ALL the ideas in the entire world, this is a really… just good idea.

So what if it was kitten in every other game that tried it… right? Whiners got no sense! amirite?

aaron.7850:

“The new additions in November are just the start of our item progression initiative.”

“Item progression”, not “stat progression”. Did you want them to not add ANY new content at all?

I have an idea for a solution to this problem.

How about this:

- They simply make it possible to ascend our own gear.

Wait. WHAT?

Yes. Like we ascended our gear in GW1. If you have an exotic item, it can and should be able to be ascended.

How? Why?

How – by playing the content. Not grinding. Thats not what we want. It could be doing the dungeon, taking over the Mists in WvW, or 100% the new areas. Whatever the case, players should be to morph their exotics into Ascended stats.

This makes all the effort we put into our Exotics not be wasted. For me it was my Ghastly Greatsword. I dont want any other greatsword. its my end game sword. I did that dungeon more times than I care for.
Dont ask me to grind some other thing I dont want.

climhazzard.5897:

Wow! Ruining this game just 3 months after release?! Awesome! At least I’ll have an excuse to break my addiction to this game. If I wanted to play WoW I would be playing WoW not GW2, unbelievable.

My first post on the official forum is to quote this.

If this happens, I will quit.

Khemizt.5104:

The term insanely popular would not describe the game in the NA market, it had a huge following and dwindled away a few months after launch. You were left with koreans and the few die hards.

That’s a hard argument to make, when the money they made off GW1 financed the entirety of GW2 – the whole half decade of work they put into it.

GW1 was very popular. Only your prejudice against it says otherwise.

KingLz.1407:

I don’t get why people are so upset about this:

1. For world PvE do you need max stat gear? Probably not.
2. For explorable mode dungeons do you need max stat gear to beat them? Probably not.
3. Can you look at the gear other people are wearing except the look? No, you can’t.

In the current game I don’t even see the need for all of my characters that reached level 80 to get exotics anyway.

If there any content yet that is not beatable in ordinary blue or green equipment if you have the right skills?

Just wondering….

You can probably beat current content with masterwork gear yes, but then you read their news post and it certainly implies that this new dungeon can only be beaten with Ascended gear. Least it reads that way to me.

Players are scared, and rightly so, that groups will only want “Legendary/Ascended geared players”. You still see “Exotic only” groups forming for the likes of AC. You ask them why “oh, it shaves a few minutes off the time”. Uhh right, and you spend how much longer building the “perfect team”?

It’s also a big slap in the face to people who have been working towards Exotic. For anyone who has just achieved this will feel like the rug has been pulle dout fro under them and they have to start from scratch as Exotic gear WILL be viewed as worthless from now on by most players.

So. Now we will have a better gear, that will be a requirement for completing new dungeon, and will also be obtainable from only that dungeon. What? I have spent hours midnlessly grinding dungeons to get exotics with non-craftable stats, mindlessly grinded gold to get skins for them, and now we will get ONE place to get all gear out of, AND that gear will not be customizeble by upgrades?
THIS IS… MADNESS

She says over and over in the blog post that they’ll be adding more Ascended and Legendary items in future updates… You guys are taking one quote out of context and assuming that it means more tiers of progression, as opposed to many more items to fill out the Ascended tier.

You want a quote war? Fine. Learn to read. I’m getting annoyed by the level of ignorance on this forum.

Stop quoting this out of context:

The new additions in November are just the start of our item progression initiative.

Because HERE is the context:

As we introduce the new high-level content, we’ll also roll out complimentary Ascended and Legendary items

As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game

Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.

We designed the process of getting Legendary gear to be a long term goal, but players were ready to start on that path much sooner than we expected and were becoming frustrated with a lack of personal progression.

By adding challenging new combat mechanics to end-game content and ways to mitigate those mechanics through gear progression for high-end players, we can add personal progression without making the game feel like an endless treadmill of gear that is just out of your reach.

So yeah, stop cherry picking one sentence. It is clear that they want gear progression to be related strictly to infusions, and how infusions interact with high-level monster abilities.

In order to accomplish this they had to add ONE new tier. What else could they do? It’s not feasible to change every single exotic item in the game to reflect this new infusion system. Like it or not, you’ll have to progress through a new tier, but nowhere is it stated that there will be items beyond Ascended, merely infusions.

Read this again:

By adding challenging new combat mechanics to end-game content and ways to mitigate those mechanics through gear progression for high-end players, we can add personal progression without making the game feel like an endless treadmill of gear that is just out of your reach.

Simple. Anyone can get maxed Ascended gear in the future and compete in WvW on fair ground. Those who want to empower themselves in the hardest PvE content can use infusions to mitigate new PvE combat mechanics.

I can’t be the only one who is reading between the lines and not freaking out over one sentence.

Ryan.6951:

So… Jrunyon and Valtameri, are you two saying then that this is a good idea?

Like, of ALL the ideas in the entire world, this is a really… just good idea.

So what if it was kitten in every other game that tried it… right? Whiners got no sense! amirite?

Okay, so lets say, on the off chance that this completely fails.. Just what do you lose? Seriously, answer that. What is wrong with getting better gear to complete an optional dungeon? There is plenty of other stuff being added if you are like me and dont enjoy running dungeons. Stop blowing things out of proportion, its not that serious.

No, I hate the new Ascended Items.

I really like this new gear progression and you know why I do? Try reading the blog post for a start.

“As we watch Guild Wars 2 mature in its Live environment, we have found that our most dedicated players were achieving their set of Exotic gear and hitting “the Legendary wall.” We designed the process of getting Legendary gear to be a long term goal, but players were ready to start on that path much sooner than we expected and were becoming frustrated with a lack of personal progression. Our desire is to create a game that is more inclusive for hardcore and casual players alike, but we don’t want to overlook the basic need for players to feel like they are progressing and growing even after hitting max level. Adding item progression is a delicate process normally undertaken in an expansion, but we feel it’s important to strive to satisfy the basic needs of our players sooner rather than later.

We have always worked hard to create a sense of satisfying progression rather than gear grind and this new item progression initiative is no exception. By adding challenging new combat mechanics to end-game content and ways to mitigate those mechanics through gear progression for high-end players, we can add personal progression without making the game feel like an endless treadmill of gear that is just out of your reach. Original Guild Wars fans may recognize that we took a familiar approach to our new progression. The first end game mechanic we will introduce is Agony, which will be encountered in the Fractals of the Mists dungeon, and is mitigated by Infusions."
How can you not agree with this?? It’s an amazing idea!

And btw, there is no indication that there will be a total set of the ascended gear yet.
If you look at the start of the “New Rarity Type: Acsended” and the “The Future of Items Progression” part of the blog post, it will start with the following:

“In November we’ll unveil the first Ascended items. This new rarity type falls between Exotic and Legendary on the spectrum of rarity and has slightly higher stats than Exotics.”

“This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.”

Meaning that we will only see ascended rings and backs so far.
Please calm down and wait before attacking this new idea with your misinformed knowledge.

can someone please explain to people like me, why would you leave a game just because they are introducing a new type of equipment and/or upgrades for it?
none of you even had the time or the means to test it, let alone see it, for it has not been implemented in the game yet. why hate things that you know nothing or very little of?

Gabi.5264:

Vengus.1098:

Gabi.5264:

My God, you folks are so kitten hilarious, complaining and complaining, Anet makes the game the way they want, enjoy it and shut the hell up or LEAVE QUIETLY because, like you used to tell us (the guys that enjoy progression instead of dressing up like barbie dolls) this is not the game for you.

Take a chill pill and go play sims or buy a doll.

It was Arenanets promise that they would bring in gearbased progression, people have every right to be upset. There are plenty of games on the market with gearbased progression, I don’t see why GW2 has to go down the same path. All they are doing is moving GW2 in such a position that they are directly competing with WoW, and no game who has ever done that survived it. Atleast failed sub games could survive by going F2P, GW2 can’t even do that.

You are the one who’s wrong.

GW1 had a pretty small player base compared to other mmos out there.
Changes are always welcomed … or the game gets boring, truth is game was lacking a lot and Anet made a great move, introducing new things, while you folks overreact like you’re in a marriage and a baby is about to come. Get this mate, this baby might be a beautiful thing. If you don’t want a baby feel free to get a divorce…. see what i did there?

Edit: you edited your post.

GW1 actually had the 2nd or 3rd highest population of the time. Of US games only WoW had them topped. GW1 averaged around 1-1.5 million players. Even today that would be one of the top MMO’s in the field.

New content: Good

Going back on the promise of horizontal progression and no grind for better stats: Bad

Releasing bigger numbers on new content: Not what was advertised.

Drop them back to exotic stats, ANet.

it is not uncommon for companies to betray their own ideals for the sake of money

look at WoW when they introduced that thing where you level up 300% faster if you get a friend to buy the game. Many people were angered and the forums felt like a war zone, much like right now…
but the world kept on spinning, but many people didn’t respect blizzard the same as before

Ryan.6951:

So… Jrunyon and Valtameri, are you two saying then that this is a good idea?

Like, of ALL the ideas in the entire world, this is a really… just good idea.

So what if it was kitten in every other game that tried it… right? Whiners got no sense! amirite?

Who are we to judge if it is a good idea, heck we haven’t even tested out the patch yet.
What i’m saying is that new stat isn’t gonna affect gameplay as much as people think.
If it would be widely used over the game, maybe.. But now i don’t really see the big problem here. No one is forcing you to venture 100 levels of new dungeon til’ you start needing that new gear.

do we want progression: it depends

You know, there is this design decision about horizontal progression. There is this thing about dungeons which lets them be challenging as initially designed, even later on.

where is it?

method 1: to introduce progression: add vertical progression – everybody wants to have the best stats, even if they choose not to do dungeons e.g. —> people are sad, they feel betrayed

sideeffect: dungeons become trivial, the better you become
sideeffect: the content for good players who need a challenge becomes less – the “endgame” dungeons are the only place to feel challenged

method 2: introduce interesting horizontal rewards which everybody wants. (e.g. customization of skill-animations like the sPvP finishers) Add some different ways to achieve those. —> people are happy, they get what they expected (cosmetical rewards)

sideeffect: dungeons have the dificulty they are designed for and won’t get trivialized
sideeffect: new content can be more difficult because of more enemies, more traps, interesting new mechanics,… not because the same number of enemies have better stats.
sideeffect: more content for players who want a challenge. Challenging events/champions stay challenging + you get the new content updates added to this.

+ Anet should increase the rewards for doing lower level zones (so that people don’t feel pushed to orr and other high level zones; content everywhere should feel rewarding)

fellyn.5083:

If they started off as a tier above what was/is currently available in the game that would give people the impression that the game is all about vertical gear progression.

The way they are doing it everything stays the same, except for now the best armor to get has pink letters instead or orange letters.

>snip<

I’m sorry but I don’t understand this.

How would it imply vertical progression?

How does this new tier not imply vertical progression?

If everything stays the same except for letter color, how many times can this action be repeated before everything doesn’t stay the same?

Ex-LotRO palyer here too. I hated so much Radiance too… gate content was the worst idea they added to the game. And what ultimate killed the game to thousand players there… and Anet is doing the same mistake. I LOL at the fact because GW2 had potential to be better… but potential only alone can’t save this game.

Gabi.5264:

Vengus.1098:

Gabi.5264:

My God, you folks are so kitten hilarious, complaining and complaining, Anet makes the game the way they want, enjoy it and shut the hell up or LEAVE QUIETLY because, like you used to tell us (the guys that enjoy progression instead of dressing up like barbie dolls) this is not the game for you.

Take a chill pill and go play sims or buy a doll.

It was Arenanets promise that they would bring in gearbased progression, people have every right to be upset. There are plenty of games on the market with gearbased progression, I don’t see why GW2 has to go down the same path. All they are doing is moving GW2 in such a position that they are directly competing with WoW, and no game who has ever done that survived it. Atleast failed sub games could survive by going F2P, GW2 can’t even do that.

You are the one who’s wrong.

GW1 had a pretty small player base compared to other mmos out there.
Changes are always welcomed … or the game gets boring, truth is game was lacking a lot and Anet made a great move, introducing new things, while you folks overreact like you’re in a marriage and a baby is about to come. Get this mate, this baby might be a beautiful thing. If you don’t want a baby feel free to get a divorce…. see what i did there?

Edit: you edited your post.

Yes I edited because I misread your post somewhat, I thought you were saying the game wasn’t for the people who like the dress up system.

Still, if people wanted gear progression, there are many other MMOs out there who do that already. All Arenanet is doing is throwing GW2 in front of the WoW freight train. As long as companies keep copying each other, the whole MMO market will never progress. Besides, there is plenty of proof that copying WoW doesn’t work, just look at Warhammer Online, SWTOR, Rift (they claim they are fine but most of their servers are always low), etc who all pretty much died apart from their small core playerbases.

I have lost all respect for Anet.

This is terrible. Putting up a poll when you know there’s alot of negativity and misinformation floating about. This poll will serve no use and will even give a skewed result. If you’re really after the truth, vote for it AFTER 1.) more/complete information is released and 2.) at the end of the weekend event so at least people will have gotten a better feel of those items. (I’m pretty sure someone will have theirs in the first hour after the dungeon is available).

Look, I really think you had a very good idea!

But the forum is already so filled up with populistic bs (I am not really sure this is the right word… Well, everyone jumping a moving wagon) and sensationalist crap, that stimulating this in another pool is deleterious! That is my point…

I think you had an amazing idea, but you compromise it with a pool that just feeds the irrational beasts that live inside of each of us!

If I wanted to play a game with gear tradmill I would stayed in WoW or play one of the other MMOs.
Thanks anet for ruining this.

MaideN.3284:

can someone please explain to people like me, why would you leave a game just because they are introducing a new type of equipment and/or upgrades for it?
none of you even had the time or the means to test it, let alone see it, for it has not been implemented in the game yet. why hate things that you know nothing or very little of?

I would say that 80% of the people who say they will leave actually won’t leave but are just angry and think that if Anet is scared of losing its customers they will take it back.

People are afraid that this game will turn into a gear grind. That is pretty much the basis for everything.

NO

/fifteenchars

Death by Chickens.6902:

Simple. Anyone can get maxed Ascended gear in the future and compete in WvW on fair ground. Those who want to empower themselves in the hardest PvE content can use infusions to mitigate new PvE combat mechanics.

I can’t be the only one who is reading between the lines and not freaking out over one sentence.

I really hope you’re right. This would indeed be ideal.

Why are people complaining about free content? Honestly if your not happy with this game anymore LEAVE ure not obliged to play and it ANET doesn’t force a subscription fee.
Ascended items is something i’m looking forward to after i’ve got my 80 exotic armour

Have to say I’m dissapointed in Anet, didn’t take them long to ditch their lofty ambitions in favour of the standard MMO cookie cutter mould. So I guess now I’ll be locked out of the high end content because I can’t be bothered to grind for that next tier of armour…

Thanks.

PS: An explanation from Anet would be nice.

goldenhornet.1205:

http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/devdiaries/1043-update-2-radiance-removal-developer-diary

A new stat for gating content, no thanks. It’s already a failed idea.

have you played GW1?

seems no so please dont talk about stuff you dont know

Valtameri.2075:

Ryan.6951:

So… Jrunyon and Valtameri, are you two saying then that this is a good idea?

Like, of ALL the ideas in the entire world, this is a really… just good idea.

So what if it was kitten in every other game that tried it… right? Whiners got no sense! amirite?

Who are we to judge if it is a good idea, heck we haven’t even tested out the patch yet.
What i’m saying is that new stat isn’t gonna affect gameplay as much as people think.
If it would be widely used over the game, maybe.. But now i don’t really see the big problem here. No one is forcing you to venture 100 levels of new dungeon til’ you start needing that new gear.

Do the math. A 26% stat increase across the board with all slots filled with the new armour, weapons and accessories. ATM they are only releasing two items but more are promised. These stats will work outside the dungeon. Only the infusion slot is for the new content.
And BTW talk to us like adults please. Do not be disrespectful

Jrunyon.3012:

aaron.7850:

“The new additions in November are just the start of our item progression initiative.”

“Item progression”, not “stat progression”. Did you want them to not add ANY new content at all?

The new items have better stats, so ya, it probably is. Agony and better items to mitigate it are not content. They’re gating mechanisms to create fake progression.

Seems fine by me. We already have gear progression. This is just another smaller step up the ladder.

They are releasing the gear slowly and steadily, so it’s obviously meant for seriously, SERIOUSLY, deep into the dungeon, else you’d have a requirement for an entire set in the first week.

They have already been honest about their realisation that it’s a departure from the norm. But this is more of a lateral departure. We can scream bloody murder once they stick another tier into the game in a year. But til then, enjoy the dungeon, enjoy the new gear and stop worrying so much.

Just because something has been done poorly somewhere else, doesn’t mean that the mechanic is a bust from the beginning.

beren.6048:

Well they say you get these items from these dungeons.

i don’t like dungeons, i did my first 5 runs only for this monthly achievement.
i don’t want to be forced to do dungeons to be at the same level of the other players.
i want to be able to craft ascended items or buy them with karma like fine, masterwork, rare and exotic items.

unhappily this isn’t the only thing that anger me…
arenanet you are betraying you long time fans

I’m even depressed for the gear progression.

Not happy with this at all, i want an explanation from Anet too.

They clearly stated you are not completing new dungeon without new gear

exotic armor grinded? what do you mean?
i took only 4 hours after lv 80 for farm my complete exotic gear berserk, other 2 hours for rampage and other 3 hours for knight.
where is the grind? exotic gear is pratically free gear
if you want dungeon skin that is 1 bit grind but you are not obligate

ascendant gear only for dungeon? where you are read this?
they will introduce 200 new recipes if you read the full patch note, it mean ascendant gear will be craftable, but you need infusion for dungeon progression and infusion will drop only in dungeon cause it effect only dungeon progression if you read the full patch note

there no word about spvp and wvwvw, maybe they will put this item in too?
it is soon for say everythink, just wait the release day….

My first (and probably only post) on these forums:

Please do not make new armor contain better statistics than current exotics. If infusions are needed, let them be applied also to existing armor ala GW1. This policy change goes against the philosophy of respecting your players (time). I bought GW2 on the assumption that like GW1 it would be a skill-based not a time-wasted-based game.

Didn’t Guild Wars 1 have a gate stat that prevented players from advancing into the final parts of Prophecies.

Yes. Yes, they did. And it was fine.

They are only introducing ascended rings and back slots so far. Calm down….

Why is gear grinding a bad thing? Because it’s usually NOT FUN. Are GW2’s means to obtain ascended gear NOT FUN? We don’t know yet.

Vertical progression makes a RPG a RPG. You can’t have a RPG without (statistical) growth. What made this a bad thing in other MMOs is how it’s usually implemented, where you have to kill one thousand rats to get a shiny knight sword of ultimate justice +1.

As long as GW2’s devs keep this fun, and don’t abuse on ridiculous addition of tiers, I’m all for it. As it seems now, you’ll have to play challenging content to get (most of) the ascended gear, which is fine in theory for me. I play something hardcore, I get rewarded for it. Much better than I kill 1000 rats each day, and i get something for it at the end of the week. The former is fun, the later is not. Even the change to legendary weapons, so theat they’re funnier to obtain, seems like an excellent change to me. It also seems that, instead of adding new tiers in the upcomming months, they’ll add more armor pieces for that tier.

I don’t want to defend Anet, because this is certainly a big change in their philosophy, but I also don’t want to come in and say that vertical progression is bad because some other games abuse it. Vertical progression is one of the strongest psychological reasons to ever play a RPG. A RPG is mostly about stats, world-immersion/ narrative and teamplay, exceptions aside.

Vertical Progression IS an excellent thing, in theory, as long as it’s well-implemented, and I much prefer a game that has an healthy balance between vertical and horizontal, than one that picks one of them and takes it to the extreme. But will the devs implement it right?