Guild Wars 2

ZudetGambeous.9573:

1. The stat spread…

thank you, with this post in combination with using my brain when reading the blog post (again with a cooled head) it actually isn’t half as bad as it looks like. Infact I like it now, let’s see how Ascended gear will be integrated into the game.

bottom line, I agree: it’s by no means a gear-treadmill.

I hope everyone here who has ever complained still has an old computer, with Windows 98 or an iPhone 3g or perhaps the original iPhone and wants to complain at Microsoft and Apple for making new items, because they have to keep up with the “gear treadmill”. Well if you want to quit those things, especially if you have an iPhone 4, I’ll take them :O

I forgot to put in my post:
Separate skills that PvE PvP.
Add guild wars, and défits speed / intelligence between players. Title with a key.

And have much more personal story race.

showatt.9413:

Honestly, people.

Explain to me.

if the game is doing so fine.

If everyone was so okay with horizontal progression.

Why are they doing this?

Why would a company disobey the wish of the “SUPPOSED” majority, if their game is still supported by the majority?

Obviously the game is not doing fine, and they’re forced to change the way they have been operating.

For god sake have a little understanding, will you?

They won’t.

A few of the posters here, including myself, have explained a very logical reasoning behind these changes.

It’s the almighty Dollar, Euro, etc.

They won’t be getting enough over the long term with only horizontal progression. It’s crystal clear.

However, it’s easier to rage, call people liars, and generally just throw a hissy fit.

Wake up folks. It’s a business. Business or lack-thereof likely dictated this change.

showatt.9413:

Stupid, to me, is believing that expecting the game to be exactly like what was promised even when is popularity is going downhill.

Maybe. Expecting honesty certainly is stupid.
I’d probably have less problems with that if they clearly stated the problem and their solution.
Not that I’d really expect that from any game developer. They all seem to like talking around the issue.

Loyalty, to me, is sticking by the company that brought you the game you loved so much (Gw1) and understand the difficult situation they’re currently facing.

I think I fullfilled my loyalty quota by buying the CE even though I knew there would be MANY things I intensly dislike about GW2 (lack of secondary profession, skills, for example).
I had faith that the rest of the game would be great enough to justify it. Until this it almost was.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Sky.9347:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

stof.9341:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

3. The added stats on Ascended gear is NOT I repeat NOT a gear treadmill. A gear treadmill is adding in gear with significantly higher stats so you can clear content that is otherwise unclearable without said gear. This is not the case here. Ascended gear is in no way required to beat anything in the game. You can see 100% of the content in the game without ever getting ascended gear. Just like you can currently see 100% of the content in the game without getting exotic gear.

I was using suboptimal gear. I grinded money to get the best gear available. A patch came in and now the best gear available isn’t exotic it’s ascended. The treadmill just sent be back to step one : I am using suboptimal gear.

This is a treadmill.

How much would you pay for an exotic ring + gem before the patch? Around 2.5-3g for an exotic 80. Now that you know there’s a plain better ring available with the only infusion slot required to make the best use out of the new dungeon. How much are you ready to pay to get a 80 exotic ring?

So what you are saying is that there was already a gear treadmill in the game, you didn’t start with exotics, you had to grind and earn better gear.

Now there is new gear and you have to do the same thing… see nothing is changing, what you are defining as a gear treadmill is already in the game, it has been since launch, which is why it is crazy to freak out about it now that we are 2 months into the game.

You do realize the difference between walking on a sidewalk, and a treadmill right?

A journey begins, and then ends.
A treadmill causes you to work without ever going anywhere.

With a set, defined gear progression – which ENDS permanently – we have a journey.
With a continuous stream of more powerful gear being added to the game, which will be required in order to continue engaging in the newest content – we have a treadmill.

I’m sort of surprised that you are too stupid to understand that difference. Or is it that you just have no real response and want to try to play gotcha with people who are truly upset by this betrayal?

I’m sorry if I personally offended you, but if you go back and read my post I actually claimed that this new set of gear is to offset the journey between Exotic and Legendary. I see absolutely no evidence that they will continue to add higher tiers of gear after this. The blog post was quite clear, the “legendary wall” as they put it, discouraged a large % of the player base from playing the game. There was this HUGE jump in progression from the amount of work to get an exotic to the amount of work to get a legendary.

They are attempting to fix this problem by the introduction of Ascended gear which they will slowly add to the game. I have seen no reference, no hint of and no evidence for this prevailing theory that they are going to be adding a new tier of gear every 2 months from this point on. It seems from what evidence that we do have that this is a 1 time thing.

To put it in terms of your analogy, the sidewalk was too short for people, they made it longer. No treadmill just a longer sidewalk.

You didn’t offend me, and I apologize for my harsh tone. This is irritating to me, because I really REALLY love this game.

If what you said is true, then I think I would be okay with that. Like I said before… people make mistakes, and we should grant them the creative freedom to correct those mistakes. My loyalty goes that far.

But, “this is just the beginning of gear progression” worries me. If this isn’t a one time change… then I am done. I won’t even post to say I am done, I will just BE done. And I will be sad about it, but it will pass. GW2 will become a memory of a long lost lover that never worked out.

Yeah not liking this WoW direction you are going, if i wanted WoW type Game play i’d buy WoW….

I’m even considering going back to Gw1

I’m on the fence till it’s released. Whilst not in favor of the extra stats on the Ascended items, I fear a lot of people in here are giving one screen shot and a short blog post too much thought.

The implementation of the items could be totally different to what people fear. There’s 200 more crafting recipes, that could add:

a) Craft-able ascendance items (as well as the already stated backpacks).
b) Gems/Runes that make ascended items equal to current exotics when equipped.

There’s also the infusions to consider. Depending on the implementation, they could be used in a variety of different ways. As Anet haven’t stated what they actually do apart from being offensive or defensive, then all we can do is speculate until it’s release.

As mentioned before, the ascended items could also be stat biased, so that they only drop in specific stat patterns, which whilst being suitable for dungeon running are actually inferior to gem equipped exotic items.

For me there are too many factors to consider before I get too worked up about what it can bring to the game or whether or not it is actually going against the manifesto as so many players have their hearts set on.

I reserve my right to reserve my judgement before I am adequately equipped with the knowledge to make more informed, considered opinions on these new features.

I see gearlocking content, kitten carrot item progression, WoW babbykitten and AssNet backstabbing their playerbase to appeal to the kitten audience.

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

showatt.9413:

Mandrax.7342:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

That carrot doesn’t need to be vertical progression. They have taken the easy, and in fact, cheap option.

Which is logical for a company that’s out to make money to do especially when their game is free to play and its going downhill.

Face it, if it wasn’t going down hill, if no one ever got bored grinding for skins and everything is the way it was back at launch, they probably would not have done this.

Accept the reality; Gw2 was dying slowly when they thought this up.

Sorry dude, but the game is doing fine. Couple the server populations with the NCSoft 3Q financial statement, and you are just plain wrong.

You keep spouting off that the game is doing fine.

I want a logical explanation as to why, if that were the case, that they would completely change their endgame design, less than 3 months out from the game launch.

Why upset the applecart if there’s no reason to do so?

Greed? Wouldn’t be the first time in business.

Well Miyamoto always told me that the current Link game will be the last…but what do you know! And I still play it.

Swoo.5079

I’m not leaving the game. There is a lot of stuff I want to do in it still.

I’m not spending more money in the cash shop, though.

This.

I bought two copies of the game (one standard, one collector’s, adding up to more than $200) and I’ve been spending around $30 a month on stuff (costumes, bank tabs, character slots).

That has just dried up and will stay dry until I’m fully convinced that Arena Net isn’t just going to turn GW2 into another failed WoW-style gear treadmill. I’m also not even going to bother sending out my friend invites (they can’t join my server anyway, and guesting still doesn’t work).

It’s bad enough that they failed to live up to their pre-sale promises of a player-controlled gem transaction market or the ability to group up with and play with friends on other servers “at any moment” (in fact, this has gotten progressively worse, and currently you can only join a different group of friends once every seven days – this is in fact much worse than WoW where we can make characters on different servers).

If we wanted to play WoW, we’d be playing WoW. It has more polished dungeons, a more customizable UI and does the “shifting goalposts” game better than Arena Net ever will. We’re playing GW2 because that is not what we want.

I think most of the posters in the thread need to re-read the information on ascended gear and Fractals of the Mist dungeon, including the blog post, over and over until they actually understand it. there is nothing here to be up in arms about. Nada.

Ascended Gear has stats on par with Exotic Gear that has enhancements already applied. Ascended gear removes enhancement slots in order to be able to provide infusion slots. This gear will not be more powerful, outside of Fractals of the Mist, than properly enhanced Exotic gear! Ascended gear will provide another method for players to acquire exotic quality end game gear, but some may miss the opportunity to customize their stats via enhancements.

Where Ascended Gear shines is when equipped with infusions, or when the item comes with resistance to the new FotM exclusive monster condition built in. This system will allow players who play a lot of FotM to get deeper and deeper into the FotM experience on a given extended run.

It’s an end game dungeon progression, but the gear progression provides zero gear inflation outside of FotM!

I look at FotM as another form of adjunct game play in the same vein as WvW and sPvP. They are optional forms of alternative game play meant to appeal to people with particular play styles and content preferences. You can completely ignore FotM dungeon, if you wish, and you will not see the rest of your game play suffer as a result. Others may play FotM almost exclusively. It’s just another way for the game to broaden it’s appeal and offer players more game play options to suit thier changing mood!

Webba.3071:

jboynton.7894:

I respect your posts and the fact that nothing we’ve said to each other has in anyway devolved into a flame war; but, please, please, please, stop citing that it’s based on financial pressures.

The data coming from NCSoft does not support this stance. NCSoft just released the 3Q financials on November 7th, stating: “B&S and GW2 have firmly positioned themselves as main revenue drivers for the company.”

That was a week ago.

And that data includes the box sales and all income associated with the release. How does GW2 maintain its position as a revenue driver without that income in future quarters?

That quote implies that GW2 is already making a profit as it is one of the “main revenue drivers”.

Games that alienate their fanbase in order to seek out players from other MMOs have historically failed miserably. This game attracted players because of what is was advertised as. People who are already established in another game that offers the same thing will not leave that game to come to this one.

showatt.9413:

Tyr.1965:

showatt.9413:

Tyr.1965:

showatt.9413:

Accept the reality; Gw2 was dying slowly when they thought this up.

It is WAY too early in the game’s life to say it was dying slowly. How do we know that people werent just taking a break and waiting for the new content to come out? There is no subscription fee. People will come and go. So now we should come to expect major overhauls to the game’s design philosophy everytime ANet gets nervous that activity is starting to dip?

Compare the amount of people that’s playing this game to the launch.

Swtor actually lasted for 5 or 6 month before it starts struggling for breath.

Gw2 is struggling in 2 month, and since this is a game that has no sub….

So yeah. Expect major changes whenever the popularity of this game crushes.

How is it struggling? How do you know it’s struggling? Are you judging this by the constantly high/full population on EVERY SINGLE SERVER??

Lol do you actually believe the server status reflect the actual population of a server?
There was a time when the server is full on tarnish coast and the entire orr map is contested.

Sorry, but I’m pretty sure Anet twink with the sever status to stop people from fotm server rolling.

fotm server rolling

this made my day

Mandrax.7342:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

showatt.9413:

Mandrax.7342:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

That carrot doesn’t need to be vertical progression. They have taken the easy, and in fact, cheap option.

Which is logical for a company that’s out to make money to do especially when their game is free to play and its going downhill.

Face it, if it wasn’t going down hill, if no one ever got bored grinding for skins and everything is the way it was back at launch, they probably would not have done this.

Accept the reality; Gw2 was dying slowly when they thought this up.

Sorry dude, but the game is doing fine. Couple the server populations with the NCSoft 3Q financial statement, and you are just plain wrong.

You keep spouting off that the game is doing fine.

I want a logical explanation as to why, if that were the case, that they would completely change their endgame design, less than 3 months out from the game launch.

Why upset the applecart if there’s no reason to do so?

Greed? Wouldn’t be the first time in business.

Perhaps it is greed.

However, it’s too “early” to pull a cash in maneuver.

I assert the game isn’t doing what they need it to do in the cash shop because of people not staying long enough to purchase anything.

They are hoping this change alleviates some of that. We’ll see if they are right.

Arnath.2319:

I’m sorry if I personally offended you, but if you go back and read my post I actually claimed that this new set of gear is to offset the journey between Exotic and Legendary. I see absolutely no evidence that they will continue to add higher tiers of gear after this. The blog post was quite clear, the “legendary wall” as they put it, discouraged a large % of the player base from playing the game. There was this HUGE jump in progression from the amount of work to get an exotic to the amount of work to get a legendary.

They are attempting to fix this problem by the introduction of Ascended gear which they will slowly add to the game. I have seen no reference, no hint of and no evidence for this prevailing theory that they are going to be adding a new tier of gear every 2 months from this point on. It seems from what evidence that we do have that this is a 1 time thing.

To put it in terms of your analogy, the sidewalk was too short for people, they made it longer. No treadmill just a longer sidewalk.

I love you, i started to loose hope in the Guild Wars community but what you just said nailed it.

People are overreacting and fearmongering when there is NO EVIDENCE to back up there wild claims.

Sorry, but if that were the case – if Anet has no plan for gear progression in the future – they shouldn’t even give us the stat bonus.

The fact that they do is because they want to reach out to new audience and retain the hardcore players that wants a gear progression, at the same time maintaining their belief in fairness.

Fairness which means your gear is not going to enable you to destroy people who’s not wearing the same gear as you.

They’re trying for a happy medium so both side of the spectrum will like the game.
So far the gear progression players are quite happy with this – it is only those GW1 purist who refuses to accept that GW2 is losing players and certain step is necceassary to retain their interest, who are not.

Crackbone.5710:

showatt.9413:

Honestly, people.

Explain to me.

if the game is doing so fine.

If everyone was so okay with horizontal progression.

Why are they doing this?

Why would a company disobey the wish of the “SUPPOSED” majority, if their game is still supported by the majority?

Obviously the game is not doing fine, and they’re forced to change the way they have been operating.

For god sake have a little understanding, will you?

They won’t.

A few of the posters here, including myself, have explained a very logical reasoning behind these changes.

It’s the almighty Dollar, Euro, etc.

They won’t be getting enough over the long term with only horizontal progression. It’s crystal clear.

However, it’s easier to rage, call people liars, and generally just throw a hissy fit.

Wake up folks. It’s a business. Business or lack-thereof likely dictated this change.

If that were true then the new expansion would have sparkle vampires and wizards with p90s calling in airstrikes.

I will wait for the game of the year edition to be 75% off on steam.

Crystal Pepsi.

Amulrei.4973:

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

bow.6179:

@Waar Kijk Je Naar. nobody asked for? So you speak for the entire GW2 community? I want it, so apparently you don’t speak for me.

I guess you’re the kind of person who would say “The GW2 community is asking for flying mounts, 50-man raids, gear-based PvP and easier dungeons”?

Amen. Makes me wonder why people like this even bought the game when it was specifically advertised as having no gear grinds/treadmills.

We’re not complaining that there IS a grind we’re complaining over the TYPE of grind they are putting into the game. And NO it was NOT advertised that they would have multiple tiers of armor from dungeon runs they specifically advertised that this is NOT what this game is supposed to be about, nor was it ever advertised that they would be following in ANY sense the designs of other much older MMO’s. Makes me wonder why people try to justify going backwards in game design by trying to change the facts to fit their personal view.

the way around all this is to have dungeon sets unlock hidden fights for you in the ex modes of the dungeons that way u do the first ex paths with normal gear but the sets of that dungeon unlock hidden paths make the game more fun for people quit using stale old ideas of mmo ,

jboynton asks: “How does GW2 maintain its position as a revenue driver without that income in future quarters?”

How does aborting the design manifesto – which, arguably, drove those sales in the first place – help raise revenue from a game that has no subscription? Are hardcore players the top consumers of cash shop items? I doubt it. Are hardcore gear-grinders going to produce the same kind of B2P expansion sales (when one comes out) as launch? If ANET alienates everyone who bought GW2 because of that manifesto, and because of the non-grind “whole-world” end game philosophy, what are those expansion sales going to be?

It seems to me we’re witnessing a potential SWG moment here; ANET can alienate everyone who came here specifically because of what GW2 was billed as, promised to be, and for three months now has delivered by changing the core nature of the game. And for what? Players that endlessly run from game to game seeking a means to satiate a never-ending quest for avatar progression/power?

Veldan.4637:

showatt.9413:

Tyr.1965:

showatt.9413:

Tyr.1965:

showatt.9413:

Accept the reality; Gw2 was dying slowly when they thought this up.

It is WAY too early in the game’s life to say it was dying slowly. How do we know that people werent just taking a break and waiting for the new content to come out? There is no subscription fee. People will come and go. So now we should come to expect major overhauls to the game’s design philosophy everytime ANet gets nervous that activity is starting to dip?

Compare the amount of people that’s playing this game to the launch.

Swtor actually lasted for 5 or 6 month before it starts struggling for breath.

Gw2 is struggling in 2 month, and since this is a game that has no sub….

So yeah. Expect major changes whenever the popularity of this game crushes.

How is it struggling? How do you know it’s struggling? Are you judging this by the constantly high/full population on EVERY SINGLE SERVER??

Lol do you actually believe the server status reflect the actual population of a server?
There was a time when the server is full on tarnish coast and the entire orr map is contested.

Sorry, but I’m pretty sure Anet twink with the sever status to stop people from fotm server rolling.

fotm server rolling

this made my day

Dont pretend it doesn’t happen :P

Henge of Denravi anyone?

And now, the new gear does have a matching upgrade built in, so now it’s not possible to have Bersekerk ring with Cleric upgrade, WohOO!!! Even more casual!! YES!!!! That’s exactly what I want, why would I want to have the freedom of choosing what combo I’d like? that would require me to think a bit. Ty Anet, TY so much u backstabbing kittens

Crackbone.5710:

Mandrax.7342:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

showatt.9413:

Mandrax.7342:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

That carrot doesn’t need to be vertical progression. They have taken the easy, and in fact, cheap option.

Which is logical for a company that’s out to make money to do especially when their game is free to play and its going downhill.

Face it, if it wasn’t going down hill, if no one ever got bored grinding for skins and everything is the way it was back at launch, they probably would not have done this.

Accept the reality; Gw2 was dying slowly when they thought this up.

Sorry dude, but the game is doing fine. Couple the server populations with the NCSoft 3Q financial statement, and you are just plain wrong.

You keep spouting off that the game is doing fine.

I want a logical explanation as to why, if that were the case, that they would completely change their endgame design, less than 3 months out from the game launch.

Why upset the applecart if there’s no reason to do so?

Greed? Wouldn’t be the first time in business.

Perhaps it is greed.

However, it’s too “early” to pull a cash in maneuver.

I assert the game isn’t doing what they need it to do in the cash shop because of people not staying long enough to purchase anything.

They are hoping this change alleviates some of that. We’ll see if they are right.

I think that people aren’t spending enough in the cash shop because there’s nothing worth buying. I would certainly spend more if there was something worthwhile. I’ll bet I’m not alone.

Fiontar.4695:

I think most of the posters in the thread need to re-read the information on ascended gear and Fractals of the Mist dungeon, including the blog post, over and over until they actually understand it. there is nothing here to be up in arms about. Nada.

Ascended Gear has stats on par with Exotic Gear that has enhancements already applied. Ascended gear removes enhancement slots in order to be able to provide infusion slots. This gear will not be more powerful, outside of Fractals of the Mist, than properly enhanced Exotic gear! Ascended gear will provide another method for players to acquire exotic quality end game gear, but some may miss the opportunity to customize their stats via enhancements.

Where Ascended Gear shines is when equipped with infusions, or when the item comes with resistance to the new FotM exclusive monster condition built in. This system will allow players who play a lot of FotM to get deeper and deeper into the FotM experience on a given extended run.

It’s an end game dungeon progression, but the gear progression provides zero gear inflation outside of FotM!

I look at FotM as another form of adjunct game play in the same vein as WvW and sPvP. They are optional forms of alternative game play meant to appeal to people with particular play styles and content preferences. You can completely ignore FotM dungeon, if you wish, and you will not see the rest of your game play suffer as a result. Others may play FotM almost exclusively. It’s just another way for the game to broaden it’s appeal and offer players more game play options to suit thier changing mood!

Not actually caring that much about the new gear and willing to wait and see what happens but really irritated that you havent bothered to notice even without an upgrade slot the new gear substantially out-stats exotics. Look at the picture on the blog, mate.

showatt.9413:

For god sake have a little understanding, will you?

I have understanding for those who explain their problems to me.
If they’d actually took the time to explain what’s wrong, I’m sure many would come to accept it more easily.
But it is rare to see a game developer do that, for some reason. (Must be in the secret manual.)

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

jboynton asks: “How does GW2 maintain its position as a revenue driver without that income in future quarters?”

How does aborting the design manifesto – which, arguably, drove those sales in the first place – help raise revenue from a game that has no subscription? Are hardcore players the top consumers of cash shop items? I doubt it. Are hardcore gear-grinders going to produce the same kind of B2P expansion sales (when one comes out) as launch? If ANET alienates everyone who bought GW2 because of that manifesto, and because of the non-grind “whole-world” end game philosophy, what are those expansion sales going to be?

It seems to me we’re witnessing a potential SWG moment here; ANET can alienate everyone who came here specifically because of what GW2 was billed as, promised to be, and for three months now has delivered by changing the core nature of the game. And for what? Players that endlessly run from game to game seeking a means to satiate a never-ending quest for avatar progression/power?

You quoted the wrong person. I posted that the game is financially doing fine and am against vertical gear progression.

We want reds in this thread not useless blog who say what we already figured out till yesterday…

Cyberman Mastermind.6012:

showatt.9413:

For god sake have a little understanding, will you?

I have understanding for those who explain their problems to me.
If they’d actually took the time to explain what’s wrong, I’m sure many would come to accept it more easily.
But it is rare to see a game developer do that, for some reason. (Must be in the secret manual.)

Sadly this is true.
Well they did say ‘some people are finding a lack of things to do in endgame’ in the blog post so that “Sort of” indicates the problem there.

Still i have yet to see a company that comes out and say it straight like ‘sorry we’re not doing as well as we thought we would and we wanted to do this and see if things get better."

Maybe its just because they don’t want their investors to run away.
Which would be logical.

Can you imagine the stock when a PR openly admits their company is struggling?

jboynton.7894:

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

jboynton asks: “How does GW2 maintain its position as a revenue driver without that income in future quarters?”

How does aborting the design manifesto – which, arguably, drove those sales in the first place – help raise revenue from a game that has no subscription? Are hardcore players the top consumers of cash shop items? I doubt it. Are hardcore gear-grinders going to produce the same kind of B2P expansion sales (when one comes out) as launch? If ANET alienates everyone who bought GW2 because of that manifesto, and because of the non-grind “whole-world” end game philosophy, what are those expansion sales going to be?

It seems to me we’re witnessing a potential SWG moment here; ANET can alienate everyone who came here specifically because of what GW2 was billed as, promised to be, and for three months now has delivered by changing the core nature of the game. And for what? Players that endlessly run from game to game seeking a means to satiate a never-ending quest for avatar progression/power?

You quoted the wrong person. I posted that the game is financially doing fine and am against vertical gear progression.

Yeah, he should have quoted me. And I would have replied that I have no idea but clearly ANET does or they would not be taking this course of action. So go and ask them. I more or less agree with you.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

jboynton asks: “How does GW2 maintain its position as a revenue driver without that income in future quarters?”

How does aborting the design manifesto – which, arguably, drove those sales in the first place – help raise revenue from a game that has no subscription? Are hardcore players the top consumers of cash shop items? I doubt it. Are hardcore gear-grinders going to produce the same kind of B2P expansion sales (when one comes out) as launch? If ANET alienates everyone who bought GW2 because of that manifesto, and because of the non-grind “whole-world” end game philosophy, what are those expansion sales going to be?

It seems to me we’re witnessing a potential SWG moment here; ANET can alienate everyone who came here specifically because of what GW2 was billed as, promised to be, and for three months now has delivered by changing the core nature of the game. And for what? Players that endlessly run from game to game seeking a means to satiate a never-ending quest for avatar progression/power?

They add one new dungeon and gear set for players that are already 80. A lot of players are already 80 btw.

Crackbone.5710:

It’s the almighty Dollar, Euro, etc.

They won’t be getting enough over the long term with only horizontal progression. It’s crystal clear.

Wake up folks. It’s a business. Business or lack-thereof likely dictated this change.

Well, they just lost a steady 30 euros a month from me for the foreseeable future. And if this becomes the norm (i.e., if there are more gear stat increases after this one), I’ll probably sell my copy of GW2 (which I am legally allowed to do under EU law).

Anyway, your post makes no sense. Increasing gear stats doesn’t increase their profits in any way (unless they started selling that improved gear for real money at the gem store – but even they aren’t that suicidal).

Johnson.4867:

Tallenn.9218:

For the first time in an MMO, I have the very best gear available. I was lead to believe that I would never have to upgrade in order to keep up with that.

I was NOT one of the people complaining they had nothing to do. I had PLENTY of things to do each time I logged in, and still more stuff on my to do list. I didn’t ask for more to keep me busy, and now I feel like I’m going to be forced to do things I didn’t really want to, taking my time away from things I really did.

I get that there’s only a couple of pieces of new gear, which will grow to more over time. So what happens when all of the ascended gear has been released, and I’ve spent all that time getting it? Will they release yet another tier then?

I truly thought this game was different- a game that wouldn’t cave to the masses that can’t handle life outside the Skinner box. I guess I was wrong.

With that logic, and you having so much to do then why do you even care what gear you have and that it might not be “the best”. The way you play, you dont need the best if you’re satisfied with running around the world discovering things, doing DEs OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER in orr to the point your eyes bleed, and crafting which can be done with any gear.

What I’m trying to say is why do you care if more gear comes out if you don’t really care about your gear….

heard that argument in countless other gear treadmill games. it didn’t hold any water there, either.

btw Anet, you can merge threads all you like, but this issue is already far beyond your ability to contain. people feel they have been lied to, and hoping the anger will just die down is a foolish mistake that will cost more than you can afford.

Fiontar.4695:

I think most of the posters in the thread need to re-read the information on ascended gear and Fractals of the Mist dungeon, including the blog post, over and over until they actually understand it. there is nothing here to be up in arms about. Nada.

Ascended Gear has stats on par with Exotic Gear that has enhancements already applied. Ascended gear removes enhancement slots in order to be able to provide infusion slots. This gear will not be more powerful, outside of Fractals of the Mist, than properly enhanced Exotic gear! Ascended gear will provide another method for players to acquire exotic quality end game gear, but some may miss the opportunity to customize their stats via enhancements.

Where Ascended Gear shines is when equipped with infusions, or when the item comes with resistance to the new FotM exclusive monster condition built in. This system will allow players who play a lot of FotM to get deeper and deeper into the FotM experience on a given extended run.

It’s an end game dungeon progression, but the gear progression provides zero gear inflation outside of FotM!

I look at FotM as another form of adjunct game play in the same vein as WvW and sPvP. They are optional forms of alternative game play meant to appeal to people with particular play styles and content preferences. You can completely ignore FotM dungeon, if you wish, and you will not see the rest of your game play suffer as a result. Others may play FotM almost exclusively. It’s just another way for the game to broaden it’s appeal and offer players more game play options to suit thier changing mood!

ARE YOU ON DRUGS MATE???

If you have a look here:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

you can clearly see they are higher stats than exotics NOT “on par” so effectifly making them stronger

I hate the addition of gear progression to this game. I am one of the many GW1 players who thought ANET was different. The biggest problem I see with GW2 endgame compared to GW1 is there is no thought required to do most things in GW2. I have well over 100 skill points on my necromancer main. I run Plinx multiple times a day, but I really don’t know why (what else is there to do besides collect mats to sell on the trade broker). I have no interest in the legendary weapon carrot chase. In GW1 you could spend a huge amount of time capturing elite skills and then designing builds around them. Elites in GW2 are largely pathetic and require no in game activity to acquire (beyond having the number of skill points needed). I also really miss the heroes. Acquiring them, building them up and using them in different ways for different things added a significant strategic thinking component to that game that is completely absent in GW2. I think of heroes like a baseball manager does using his/her players in making a lineup to go against a particular team or pitcher. Grouping with other players does not fill that void in any way. Instead of adding gear progression to solve their end game problem they should have added something that allows players to think.

Arnath.2319:

Firstly. Calm done, take a deep breath.

Secondly, they made it very clear that this Ascended gear AND the Infussions will be released very slowly, it will be delibretly gated for many months even years before we get the max Infussions sloted into our gear. When that time comes we can worry about it then.

For all we know we may not get a full set of Ascended armor and the highest Infussions until 3+ years from now after multiple exspansions.

I’m asking you these questions very calmly. If you don’t believe me… I… can… type… very… slowly… and… play… some… Sounds… of… Nature… as… I… write…

But seriously, that argument still doesn’t hold water. Think about it: When they release this update, there are three Ascended pieces available. How long do you think it’s going to take for people to get them? A week? Two weeks? Maybe a month?

There’s six accessory slots, six armour slots, and between one and four weapon slots available for each character. If it takes three years for them to release the remaining nine accessory/armour slots, that’s a rate of, what? One every four months? (Even if you add in the weapons, there’s no way in hell that keeps the game alive based on progression.)

Or if they do it one per month, with three pieces each (and the weapons all in a bundle), that’s still only four months after this one. That brings us to… March, 2013.

What’s going to ‘breathe life’ into the game then? This isn’t a rhetorical question, brought on by me raging out. I’m seriously asking: If ArenaNet intends on keeping the game active via a slow drip of Ascended equipment progression, how long do you think that’s going to last, and how long do you think it’s actually going to work?

As many of the apologists have pointed out, each piece is ‘only’ improving your character by about 18 stat points. Is that enough of a jump to actually sustain the interest of people who are motivated by vertical progression?

I just don’t see who’s actually going to be satisfied by Ascended gear, as we understand it to exist. Those who lose interest in the game due to lack of progression are going to find the progression feels meagre, and is doled out in a slow drip for a few months (or a really slow drip for a couple years) until there are no more Ascended pieces to release, and the people who don’t want vertical progression are going to be unhappy every time the treadmill rolls back a few feet and they have to waste time running back to where they started. It’s just not consistent with any player values system that I’m aware of.

Mandrax.7342:

Crackbone.5710:

Mandrax.7342:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

showatt.9413:

Mandrax.7342:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

That carrot doesn’t need to be vertical progression. They have taken the easy, and in fact, cheap option.

Which is logical for a company that’s out to make money to do especially when their game is free to play and its going downhill.

Face it, if it wasn’t going down hill, if no one ever got bored grinding for skins and everything is the way it was back at launch, they probably would not have done this.

Accept the reality; Gw2 was dying slowly when they thought this up.

Sorry dude, but the game is doing fine. Couple the server populations with the NCSoft 3Q financial statement, and you are just plain wrong.

You keep spouting off that the game is doing fine.

I want a logical explanation as to why, if that were the case, that they would completely change their endgame design, less than 3 months out from the game launch.

Why upset the applecart if there’s no reason to do so?

Greed? Wouldn’t be the first time in business.

Perhaps it is greed.

However, it’s too “early” to pull a cash in maneuver.

I assert the game isn’t doing what they need it to do in the cash shop because of people not staying long enough to purchase anything.

They are hoping this change alleviates some of that. We’ll see if they are right.

I think that people aren’t spending enough in the cash shop because there’s nothing worth buying. I would certainly spend more if there was something worthwhile. I’ll bet I’m not alone.

lmao you aren’t.

Give us mount kittenit.

but oh wait its in their design manifesto that they aren’t adding one.

Mffffffff

Johnson.4867:

I don’t get it. Before this was even announced the forums were filled with “oh gawd, we’re so bored we have nothing to do”.

Then once they (Anet) gives you a simple task of completing something. The new instance for better gear…which prolly a monkey with downs could complete; we get all mad… makes no sense.

I know I’m not the only one that has been dying for more things to complete. Sorry I don’t find running around the map ‘fun’ I get on video games to kill things, not run around looking at vistas when i could just go outside to look at nature…you know…that ISNT fake.

call me crazy, but I want something to do. not sit in LA twiddling my thumbs because I’ve completed all other dungeons over and over

It’s hard to explain, but I think the huge protest is mainly a voice of another genre of players than you probably are(?). This is a part of GW2 community, who consciously chose the game based not on cool vids and ads, but on some basic principles and philosophy of this game. They are often MMO experienced vets, who do not need more and more things to complete to feel fulfilled, who decided to make GW2 their home for years. They just realised, the philosophy has been shifted to a direction they know from other games. Games they quit because of concepts they don’t like anymore. And now they’re afraid, GW2 will be in the future less and less what they have been promised and what they expected to be.

…Okay, no. I didn’t buy this game for a gear treadmill.

This goes entirely counter to the stated design philosophy of the game and what I bought this game for to begin with.

Why did you do this? I don’t understand. It’s like you took a beautiful painting and scribbled all over it with a magic marker.

jboynton.7894:

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

jboynton asks: “How does GW2 maintain its position as a revenue driver without that income in future quarters?”

How does aborting the design manifesto – which, arguably, drove those sales in the first place – help raise revenue from a game that has no subscription? Are hardcore players the top consumers of cash shop items? I doubt it. Are hardcore gear-grinders going to produce the same kind of B2P expansion sales (when one comes out) as launch? If ANET alienates everyone who bought GW2 because of that manifesto, and because of the non-grind “whole-world” end game philosophy, what are those expansion sales going to be?

It seems to me we’re witnessing a potential SWG moment here; ANET can alienate everyone who came here specifically because of what GW2 was billed as, promised to be, and for three months now has delivered by changing the core nature of the game. And for what? Players that endlessly run from game to game seeking a means to satiate a never-ending quest for avatar progression/power?

You quoted the wrong person. I posted that the game is financially doing fine and am against vertical gear progression.

I hope you are right.

Every sensibility and every experience I’ve had to date tells me that something clearly isn’t right in their model. It’s not having the desired effect.

I’d love to be wrong on this, and that they’ll read this rage thread and decide, you know what, we’re going to kittencan this whole vertical gear progression and go another route.

I don’t think it’s that simple. Again, you don’t do this, something so very against the core of your marketing and endgame model if everything is just fine.

This is what you get, when you complain about end-game. (:

So far, GW1 keeped player for 7 years pretty easyly, why ? because tons of skills ( 200skills per class + multiclass ), tons of differents possible builds. It mean ALWAYS change your gameplay.
And the only farm was 100% cosmetic. It worked perfectly.

it work too for Mabinogi ( VERY old mmo ) why ? also a skill based game with no class, you can learn and play everything ( melee / ranged / magic / alchemy /..etc )
But you have to rank skill to make them more powerfull ( painfull grind part, but with a faraway more interesting goal ), and the rock – paper – scissor game style is just very interesting.
But you have nearly 0 gear grind, except for the skin too.

This game work like a charm since 2004, and 2008-2009 in NA.

Its a skill based game. focused on the GAMEPLAY. like GW1 was.

But GW2 only have a real poor gameplay and choice to make build like all boring mmo. No real party gameplay, poor dungeon only based on dodge and not on skill like GW1.. etc.
It mean get bored really fast, so only way to keep player “forcing” play is the gear grinding.
Also, the pvp is far away less interesting than the GW1 one ( no arena, no GvG, no HoH )
Anet really fail his “GuildWars” 2 even if there is quiet a lot interesting idea.

So like many here i just hate the gear grinding, but at see the poor GW2 gameplay possibilities i’am not surprised that Anet choose this easyest way instead of take the hard way to improoved smartly the GW2 gameplay.

So fail.

showatt.9413:

Can you imagine the stock when a PR openly admits their company is struggling?

Good point.
I’ve always said that the stock market system is beyond ridiculous. Companies are going down because they don’t make enough additional profit…
(Huh, come to think of it – kind of like item progression. Scary.)

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I’m sorry if I personally offended you, but if you go back and read my post I actually claimed that this new set of gear is to offset the journey between Exotic and Legendary. I see absolutely no evidence that they will continue to add higher tiers of gear after this. The blog post was quite clear, the “legendary wall” as they put it, discouraged a large % of the player base from playing the game. There was this HUGE jump in progression from the amount of work to get an exotic to the amount of work to get a legendary.

They are attempting to fix this problem by the introduction of Ascended gear which they will slowly add to the game. I have seen no reference, no hint of and no evidence for this prevailing theory that they are going to be adding a new tier of gear every 2 months from this point on. It seems from what evidence that we do have that this is a 1 time thing.

To put it in terms of your analogy, the sidewalk was too short for people, they made it longer. No treadmill just a longer sidewalk.

This. I completely agree. Everyone should calm down instead of turning into rabid dogs over something that hasn’t really been implemented yet. The whole ’I’m gunna quit cause of this blah blah" Without knowing the full details or seeing it through is quite childish.

-.-

Thankyou Zudet for speaking some sense.

Pretty simple really Go back to their Roots….Guildwars more content, more maps more world to play in, more stories to follow, and more mini-games to play…

Remove the WoW treadmill, actually remove WoW completely this is suppose to be Guildwars 2….

Gear was meant to be looked at not get better stats…

Account.9832:

Crackbone.5710:

It’s the almighty Dollar, Euro, etc.

They won’t be getting enough over the long term with only horizontal progression. It’s crystal clear.

Wake up folks. It’s a business. Business or lack-thereof likely dictated this change.

Well, they just lost a steady 30 euros a month from me for the foreseeable future. And if this becomes the norm (i.e., if there are more gear stat increases after this one), I’ll probably sell my copy of GW2 (which I am legally allowed to do under EU law).

Anyway, your post makes no sense. Increasing gear stats doesn’t increase their profits in any way (unless they started selling that improved gear for real money at the gem store – but even they aren’t that suicidal).

Sure it does.

More people that play, the more cash you pull from the shop. If you don’t think they have internal numbers about how many players it takes to receive X amount of revenue from the cash shop, then I have a bridge to sell you.

Retention and character investment encourages folks to spend money. If you aren’t engaged, you won’t spend money.

It’s pretty simple.

Webba.3071:

And that data includes the box sales and all income associated with the release. How does GW2 maintain its position as a revenue driver without that income in future quarters?

So many people seem to forget that you already bought the game, there is no sub fee so customer retention is a myth. What you want as a company in a B2P or F2P game is to sell items in a cash shop.

It doesn’t matter if people play or don’t play as long as you generate enough revenue to keep the game alive.

I have already spent money (100€) on gems to upgrade my bank, character slots and bag space because I thought I was in for the long run and I don’t mind spending a lot more for cool armor skins but there aren’t any.

So, instead of populating the gem store with cool stuff to buy I will get the same gear grind I’ve left other MMOs for? That has to be the best business decision ever.

And I can assure you that the best customer is a paying customer with money to spend. Long gone are the collage days when I had a lot of time but little money. Nowadays, I have enough disposable income but a lot less time to “grind” in games.

Guess what I will do if this goes through? I won’t spend any more on the gem store because I know that several months to a year down the line the difference won’t be just 8% in stats. Been there, done that and I’m done with gear based MMOs.

Account.9832:

Crackbone.5710:

It’s the almighty Dollar, Euro, etc.

They won’t be getting enough over the long term with only horizontal progression. It’s crystal clear.

Wake up folks. It’s a business. Business or lack-thereof likely dictated this change.

Well, they just lost a steady 30 euros a month from me for the foreseeable future. And if this becomes the norm (i.e., if there are more gear stat increases after this one), I’ll probably sell my copy of GW2 (which I am legally allowed to do under EU law).

Anyway, your post makes no sense. Increasing gear stats doesn’t increase their profits in any way (unless they started selling that improved gear for real money at the gem store – but even they aren’t that suicidal).

I see we’re looking for an answer more sophisticated than " catering the game towards people who want gear progression will likely bring more players/interest therefore bringing more possible revenue."

How does increasing gear stat increase profit I wonder……

I started playing gw1 at launch and took a lot of breaks over the years, but every time I came back my armor and weapons were still top of the line despite being gone for three years. I didn’t have to do any catching up. Could just go in and enjoy the game.

Apparently this isn’t going to be the case with gw2. Hearing for 5 years that gw2 is “appearance over stats” and there will be no gear treadmill and here we are only two months in and they’ve completely done a u-turn on their whole manifesto. If I didn’t already get hundreds of hours of enjoyment out of this game I’d ask for a refund.

I think this entire thread has run its course.

For the record, I’ve never said this is the right move.

It’s obvious they have to do something, or something isn’t working. Gear is the quick fix, and that’s what they’ve done.

No amount of forum rage is going to change that its coming on Friday.