Guild Wars 2

Not 1 response would likely be because over 3,000 posts have happened in just the last few hours. They’re busy working on the new update.

WoW questing sucked, no personal story, no WvWvW, PvP sucked etc. Even raiding in WoW sucked. The combat sucked.

In GW2 you have enough options already, now ArenaNet are adding content for hardcore endgamers and you start to whine.

fathamburger.8453:

Unfortunately I had to write what was probably the first piece of bad press that GW2 has ever gotten because of this. I did not enjoy it.

http://www.examiner.com/article/guild-wars-2-may-take-it-s-first-critical-mis-step-upcoming-lost-shores-exp

Great article, and I agree. I’m glad that our discontent is starting to spread outside of these forums.

Turtlemilk.1064:

fathamburger.8453:

ESO aka Elder Scrolls Online is coming next year… yes I’ll be in for future free updates but you might as well save your money since like most people.. I will not be buying your expansions just for a reason to grind more dungeons for more useless gear that will be replaced again and so forth.

http://ca.ign.com/videos/2012/11/08/the-elder-scrolls-online-gameplay-video

Yes, because that is exactly what ArenaNet said is going to happen.

Sigh.

ArenaNet stated they were going to release new infusions and types of ascended gear (all obviously the same tier). Honestly… why are you people acting so silly? The idiocracy burns so much I feel like you all must be trolling.

The idiocy that I see is in this post. Have you even looked at it? They compared an exotic level ring with an ascended level ring. Both magic find, ascended level had 5 stat points more to every stat, and 3% more magic find. If those numbers carry over to everything else, you’re going to be looking at roughly 100 more stat points for a full ascended set versus an exotic set. And that’s quite a difference.

Loosifah.4739:

God you people will complain about anything. So they’re adding a new “slightly” better tier of equipment after 3 months. Did you REALLY expect them to not add any additional sets/armors/weapons/etc. to the game EVER? It’s not like this armor is even going to be that much better than what you already have. Chill the kitten out and enjoy the game.

they could have added new gear that had same stats but new/cool skins. That is whate everyone expected, not new gear with new skins AND new/better stats.

“Is it Fun? Colin Johanson on How ArenaNet Measures Success”

“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

@ ArcTheFallen.7682

Your right, we need to calm down.

However I have made mistakes in a professional capacity before and held my hands up to it early. I laid my cards down and explained the situation as well as offering apologies and a clear path for those impacted to regain any lost assets.

If this line of action was taken days ago I would be much more amicable. The company have decided to hunker down and let the frustration ebb around them.

Not 1 post to acknowledge that people are upset and they are listening after around 5000 comments here. A signature of a direct quote around there own standards is a balanced response.

They have to be careful about what they say. Cause a majority of these people will ridicule anything close to imperfect.

Not really happy about this, the promised lack of gear treadmill was one of the reasons why I got this game in the first place. They are going back on this after only a few months?

I don’t see the problem. Money talks.
So many people (in 2012…almost 2013) with an idealistic view of a company whose main raison d’être is to make money. And I thought I was naïve. Sheesh.

Crater.1625:

Loosifah.4739:

Did you REALLY expect them to not add any additional sets/armors/weapons/etc. to the game EVER?

No. We expected them to never add better sets/armour/weapon/etc to the game, EVER.

Exactly!

No Anet, just no.

There is absolutely NO need for a new gear tier. I refuse to grind for this bullkitten just so I can have max stat gear. This is not what Guild Wars was supposed to be.

Just give us more unique skins and everyone will be happy.

almost just as powerful…

This will satisfy the gear treadmill whiners for a week or so, at which point they’ll be spouting the same nonsense about lack of progression, forcing ArenaNet to add more tiers.

Considering we were advertised a game without a gear treadmill for years before release, it does feel very much like a huge betrayal.

Oh well, when the gear treadmill kiddies finally leave again the people that bought the game because we actually wanted what ArenaNet advertised to us will still be here.

It’s just a question of how much they ruin the game before realizing that the one 12 year old kid that actually wants a gear treadmill left for WoW two months ago anyway.

Zoid.2568:

WoW questing sucked, no personal story, no WvWvW, PvP sucked etc. Even raiding in WoW sucked. The combat sucked.

In GW2 you have enough options already, now ArenaNet are adding content for hardcore endgamers and you start to whine.

hardcore endgamers aren’t playing GW2, they are playing WoW. The dungeon/boss mechanics in GW2 are laughable to hardcore raiders. Even Rift has better and more challenging dungeon/boss mechanics Sorry my friend.

Sprawl.3891:

you could roll alts, and do 5 mans and pvp. All optional of course

and what else is there in GW2? Roll alt, do dungeons and WvW.

In WoW they intentionally made it clear that raids were the only game type that they would cater to for most of their content, and primarily all fun was at end game content.

in GW2 they intentionally made it clear that all content is end game and viable throughout the game, so that it can be enjoyed by anyone fully, because the entire game would have been catered to equally.

Crater.1625:

Loosifah.4739:

Did you REALLY expect them to not add any additional sets/armors/weapons/etc. to the game EVER?

No. We expected them to never add better sets/armour/weapon/etc to the game, EVER.

Then you’re a kitten naive person. The game has only been out for 3 months and you expect them to never add anything better to use over time. This isn’t about a gear treadmill it’s about keeping content challenging and fun.

If you never add better equipment with better stats and new upgrades then new dungeons and monsters and events would be no harder to complete other than new mechanics.

Shamurai.5976:

Looks to me like 100+ pages of people have PLENTY of people that dont’ want this gear, so take down the names and run with them

If you can do stuff like take down 100 pages of names then you have WAY too much free time.

Did you REALLY expect them to not add any additional sets/armors/weapons/etc. to the game EVER?

Additional sets/weapons? Sure. We expected to get plenty of them.

As long as they didn’t have better stats.

See, the playerbase that was upset here is the core GW1 playerbase. Gw1 is a game that suceeded with this very model, and never upgraded gear stats. This is why many people did pick GW2, as opposed to your generic statgrind MMO.

And this is the base that is now being alienated.

It remains to be seen if the statgrind locusts will be able to generate more revenue than players like me dropping. May so, maybe not.

If you never add better equipment with better stats and new upgrades then new dungeons and monsters and events would be no harder to complete other than new mechanics.

You have no idea what challenge means. You are so used to MMOs and so blind to actual gamedesign that it’s downright sad.

Seriously, you really think that challenge comes from adding numbers? That’s downright pathetic.

If our model was subscription based, we might be spending all this time racing to add as much filler content as possible to keep players chasing the carrot. Instead, as content designers with the goal of creating fun, we get to spend this time refining our content and making it amazing.

Well if that is no carrot I don’t know what else is ^^

Loosifah.4739:

God you people will complain about anything. So they’re adding a new “slightly” better tier of equipment after 3 months. Did you REALLY expect them to not add any additional sets/armors/weapons/etc. to the game EVER? It’s not like this armor is even going to be that much better than what you already have. Chill the kitten out and enjoy the game.

http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success#more-8572

“Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best.
The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game.
We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so,
but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”
– Colin Johanson

Also, adding MANY different armor /weapons skin like GW1 work really better.
The farmer will farm the rare weapons skins, thoses who hate like me farm many hours for gear treadmill will not have to do it.

And it’s still the same interest since you are going to farm for something rare. And the look in a mmo is really important too.

Stating from GW1 / mabinogi without gear treadmill and a tons of differents skill, it work perfectly, and everyone is happy.

But well, the game requier to offer a really interesting gameplay, and saddly, compare to GW1, GW2 do not offer that.

GW1 has no mechanic as described by ascended armor. You do a quest, get infused, and move on. It gives you no stat bonuses other than resistance for some story missions.

In GW2 ascended armor is described as being a goal between exotic and legendary (i.e. not easy to get) and has higher stats (so without it you are at a disadvantage in WvW and will suffer from gear discrimination in dungeons).

I’m not going to say much because it’s already been said .. a lot. But I agree that this goes against one of the best things about the Guild Wars 2 manifesto.

This wasn’t to be the same game everyone else is making. This was meant to be different where having fun is paramount and not grinding for the best gear.

If this goes live how we all fear it will, it harms the ideology of the game that I try to sell to my friends and guild mates who have yet to try it.

Vorch.2985:

ANet adds a tier so that people can attain stats closer to that of a legendary.

You’re so uninformed. Exotics have identical stats to legendaries. Check the wiki if you don’t believe me.

New items to strive for is great. New items that unbalance the playing field with +77 stat points per item (note the increase in MF, and the MF-stat exchange rate) are unnecessary. Why couldn’t ascended items be only better looking and more prestigious, not numerically better?

Gahro.4095:

Vocal minority. I thought Anet understood what this means.

Now look at this thread. These are the players that were satisfied with the game.

You gave in to the few people on the forums that complained about “not enough to do”. Those people with short attention-spans are long gone.

What you did was alienate those who stayed because they liked the non gear-based game they had.

Who greenlights something like this?

A distributor.

I suspect that ANet wasn’t responding to forum feedback here. I suspect this development is more due to pressure from the Big Bosses, who seem to think there is only one template for a successful MMO.

You see, as someone who played City of Heroes for 8 years, I’ve been here before. The common denominator: NCSoft.

At its heart, I think this is all the result of: 1. culture clash and 2. a dysfunctional corporate methodology (that is plaguing just about every big distributor these days, not just NCSoft).

I suspect that if ANet had been left to its own devices, we wouldn’t be seeing this shift in design trajectory. Unfortunately, a great deal is resting on the success of this title, and NCSoft has recently restructured and ‘streamlined’ its focus.

In light of that, this all makes a certain amount of (depressing) sense.

Loosifah.4739:

Not 1 response would likely be because over 3,000 posts have happened in just the last few hours. They’re busy working on the new update.

PR’s are not Dev’s / Coders etc…

They likely had this in the risk register and the mitigation action is accept.

Vorch.2985:

ANet adds a tier so that people can attain stats closer to that of a legendary.

THEREFORE; GW2 is a gear grind/gear treadmill/WoW clone.

Slippery Slope Argument:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/slippery-slope.html

You know, I really, really with that all this was just a mob mentality riffing on baseless assumptions, but sadly…it is not. Here is a direct quote from ANet’s blog:

The new additions in November are just the start of our item progression initiative. We’re going to add tons of new high-level content to Guild Wars 2 in the future. As we introduce the new high-level content, we’ll also roll out complimentary Ascended and Legendary items (to say nothing of the other rewards you can earn by playing the content).

It is, unfortunately, extremely clear that they are intending to keep introducing progressively more powerful item tiers.

SirMoogie.9263:

I take it the backpiece is the only item available through the forge and it is the first “key” on your journey through FotM (and may not be the best backpiece with infusion on it). Other keys will be acquired by doing the dungeon.

True, I think it was said that the backpieces and the infusions would be separate recipes. Makes sense if there are going to be multiple stat combinations available for the backpieces.

Sprawl.3891:

Zoid.2568:

The new dungeons are for hardcore endgame players. You don’t have to do any of the content, you can sit in a corner in Divinitys Reach if you want. It’s ok.

and same could be said for LOTRO, yet they still scrapped and and considered it a failed mechanic.

One difference here is that the dungeon will already be open to players without any infusions at all. I don’t think we know how many fractals yet. By doing the dungeon at a lower difficulty, you can open up the requirements for doing it at a higher difficulty. Is that so different that opening explorable mode by doing story mode?

Again keeping in mind that you can open up at least some of the higher end content without doing the lower end parts.

Please do not make all my exotic gear pointless. I don’t care if the new gear is only .0001% better. I worked my butt off getting my 5 sets of gear for my necro to match how I want to play him with my builds. I have the builds saved on a notepad so I can easily swap them over as well. Do not do this, for it is the first steps to gear treadmills which lead to pointless grinding to get the best gear. I have the best gear and more then 1 set to match how I want to play at the time.

Quote from Mike O’Brien

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

The sad thing is that even if they reversed their decision, they’ve still tarnished their word and all without blinking an eye. Their blog post just pretends they never said anything about grinding and gear treadmills.

Zoid.2568:

WoW questing sucked, no personal story, no WvWvW, PvP sucked etc. Even raiding in WoW sucked. The combat sucked..

GW2 heart-filling sucks, personal story is beyond horrible, W3 is a mess of galactic dimensions, PvP sucks beyond words can express in all variants, combat is…sorta decent, but then they made underwater combat that defines a new height in virtual suckiness…

not feeling any progress, tbh. at least WoW has the excuse of being 7 years old, this game sucks just as much and the devs had 7 years to learn why things suck and what not to do

Sousuke.7268:

No Anet, just no.

There is absolutely NO need for a new gear tier. I refuse to grind for this bullkitten just so I can have max stat gear. This is not what Guild Wars was supposed to be.

Just give us more unique skins and everyone will be happy.

Nobodies making you do anything for slightly better equipment.

Jnaathra.6549:

“those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

Enhanced.

Creslin.1758:

munkiman.3068:

Creslin.1758:

The only thing that makes it mandatory is that (from what we have heard) the new gear type will ONLY be available via the dungeon, and that gear type is STATISTICALLY SUPERIOR to exotics.

Therefore, if you want to have the best gear for WvW…you gotta run the fractals.

Baseless assumption is baseless. You have no idea if this is even the case or not. Ascended gear, for all you know, might be a random WvW drop. Or otherwise attainable in WvW for badges…

This is a direct quote from their blog post…

Players will be able to acquire Ascended Rings in the Fractals of the Mists dungeon, and Ascended items worn on the back can be acquired through special Mystic Forge recipes.

I don’t see this saying it can’t be acquired in WvW. Even PvP has access to the forge. For all you know you might just be able to walk into the dungeon and buy the ring for 1g or karma. There is a ton of random assumptions going on and very little logical based on facts conclusions being made.

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

MajorMelchett.6042:

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

I having this made into a t-shirt:

We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.” – Colin Johanson… Pants… on… Fire.

I’m wondering if making it a sig would be infraction worthy?, i can’t see any rules against it but considering how things go it’s best to ask.

Your a genius.
Shortened to fit but done.

Feel free to follow along guys.

Done.

Sprawl.3891:

Zoid.2568:

WoW questing sucked, no personal story, no WvWvW, PvP sucked etc. Even raiding in WoW sucked. The combat sucked.

In GW2 you have enough options already, now ArenaNet are adding content for hardcore endgamers and you start to whine.

hardcore endgamers aren’t playing GW2, they are playing WoW. The dungeon/boss mechanics in GW2 are laughable to hardcore raiders. Even Rift has better and more challenging dungeon/boss mechanics Sorry my friend.

Because we all know the trilogy = best mechanic evahhhhhh.

Wow, I was really surprised when I saw the update and read the blog post. Though the difference in stats on Ascended gear may be minimal, the fact they are introducing it at all leaves me feeling rather misled. I would like to give them the benefit of tho doubt and believe, “just this one more tier, and that’s it!”, but the way the blog post was worded does not give me that impression at all.

I really loved the idea of being able to get top tier gear without having a dungeon running guild, and not have to worry about “falling behind” in terms of gear.

This is not looking good to me, but I will reserve judgement until we see how it plays out. And even if I don’t like it, I’m not about to get my pitchfork out — I’ll just be disappointed and will probably play less.

Loosifah.4739:

God you people will complain about anything. So they’re adding a new “slightly” better tier of equipment after 3 months. Did you REALLY expect them to not add any additional sets/armors/weapons/etc. to the game EVER? It’s not like this armor is even going to be that much better than what you already have. Chill the kitten out and enjoy the game.

Ofc we expect them to ad new weapons, but now weapons, armor etc with better stats. They tolr us they wouldn’t do it, and GW1 is fine without it, so why does GW2 need it?

Fortuna.7259:

GW1 has no mechanic as described by ascended armor. You do a quest, get infused, and move on. It gives you no stat bonuses other than resistance for some story missions.

In GW2 ascended armor is described as being a goal between exotic and legendary (i.e. not easy to get) and has higher stats (so without it you are at a disadvantage in WvW and will suffer from gear discrimination in dungeons).

Which is exactly why i think there would have been no issue if they just stuck with their previously tried and true agony and infused mechanic.

I, personally, have no issue with the idea of a final, endgame tier of armor and weapons that’s tough as nails to get ahold of and carries a relatively minor stat improvement over exotics. Taken at face value, I’m actually quite excited for most of the things outlined in this blog post.

That is, so long as it goes to this tier and no further. This update sets an unnerving precedent, and I hope that you do not allow this first step to fall on a slippery slope. And endless parade of ever-more-powerful gear is not what anyone is expecting of a Guild Wars game. One max-level tier, and no more. No more levels, for that matter, just 1-80 content that is valuable and rewarding for anyone from 1-80.

Two other things worry me as well. One is this idea that a resist/penetration mechanic is a “new and exciting combat mechanic” worth following. To me and many others, there’s nothing skillful or fun about sticking [dungeon condition du jour]-resistance or Crab Shell Penetration upgrades into every piece of armor in order to make progress. Ideally, the dungeon itself is simply unforgivingly hard in normal ways, and progression is made through the advancement of player skill itself. That feels rewarding for entirely good reasons, and is the only grind that is entirely acceptable.

The second is this strange fascination with the Mystic Forge as a high-end, catch-all crafting stewpot. What did I even level these other professions for if everything important is just going to be made by the one crafting profession that everyone has maxed for free? Why aren’t there options out there in the world for creating items, something that will give me a story to remember and tell down the line? Even something as simple as the “scavenger hunt” you’ve suggested for precursor weapons is preferable and even exciting, and I truly hope you roll with that concept and carry it over to all kinds of high-end items, retroactively even. There’s a whole huge, beautiful world out there with infinite nooks and crannies to hide things. Use that, instead of the town recycling bin.

This is just rediculous! I’m playing dungeons with basic equipment (blue level 75) and playing WvW with lvl9 char! So why are you making such a noise about 2%-4% stat difference?! There is nothing wrong with some kind of progression within the game which does not need to destroy balance. If you play gw2 then you already know there are 80 levels and proffesions. This is exactly the same thing and doesn’t destroy anything! Just enjoy the game!

I playd gw1 from start to finish and love the new idea about items!

castlemanic.3198:

Sprawl.3891:

you could roll alts, and do 5 mans and pvp. All optional of course

and what else is there in GW2? Roll alt, do dungeons and WvW.

In WoW they intentionally made it clear that raids were the only game type that they would cater to for most of their content, and primarily all fun was at end game content.

in GW2 they intentionally made it clear that all content is end game and viable throughout the game, so that it can be enjoyed by anyone fully, because the entire game would have been catered to equally.

It’s been shown only a small % of people who play WoW actually do large raids, I believe <20%. So, no. Majority of players, play casually to level, craft and run simple 5 mans or pvp.

Crater.1625:

Loosifah.4739:

Did you REALLY expect them to not add any additional sets/armors/weapons/etc. to the game EVER?

No. We expected them to never add better sets/armour/weapon/etc to the game, EVER.

No, we expect them to add MORE SKINS to the gem shop. More items. More things to buy.

A gear grind in a game with no sub fee MAKES NO SENSE.

The information on what sells in a cash shop is out there for all to see. Check out LOTRO – it’s mostly cloaks, dresses and horses. Check out all the minis and mounts in WoW. Look at all the costume sets in COH.

Now look at our gem store. It is beyond skimpy – it was bare-bones when the game released, and almost nothing has been added to it. What HAS been added is event-related.

The events and content are great and fantastic. They make people log in. But if people don’t have a reason to BUY GEMS then it does the game NO good. It’s wasted development time. And since our gem store has almost nothing in it… why are they wasting development time with an in-game gear grind?

Does Anet really expect the Black Lion Key Lottery to pay the bills from here forward? Every month?

thats a typical snake oil salesman for you
they will say anything to get some more sales, then do what they feel like it once they have your money

Vorch.2985:

ANet adds a tier so that people can attain stats closer to that of a legendary.

THEREFORE; GW2 is a gear grind/gear treadmill/WoW clone.

Slippery Slope Argument:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/slippery-slope.html

Anet is not adding ascended gear so that people can attain stats closer to that of a legendary. Legendary weapons currently have the same stats as exotics.

This patch is increasing the stats on a new tier of gear and at a later time increasing legendary weapons to equal that of ascended weapons. Hence a new stat.

Nice link though. Fortunate for you, you can find anything on the internet and it’s all pure truth.

I’ve never seen such a massive outcry for communism.

They have mentioned in the past about adding a “Legendary” tier of armor. Just saying.

Eilanzer.7523:

STOP trying to copy WOW (You will lose there!) and traying to think new ways to please your customers…It´s simple…

-RAID
-Ranked Arena

So stop trying to copy WoW…any copy another part of WoW…

Seriously, how many MMORPGs have “ranked arena”?

Shootsfoot.9276:

Sprawl.3891:

Zoid.2568:

WoW questing sucked, no personal story, no WvWvW, PvP sucked etc. Even raiding in WoW sucked. The combat sucked.

In GW2 you have enough options already, now ArenaNet are adding content for hardcore endgamers and you start to whine.

hardcore endgamers aren’t playing GW2, they are playing WoW. The dungeon/boss mechanics in GW2 are laughable to hardcore raiders. Even Rift has better and more challenging dungeon/boss mechanics Sorry my friend.

Because we all know the trilogy = best mechanic evahhhhhh.

i heard rez rushing is even better.

I don’t get the point of this, the game has no subscription. If a small segment blasts through the content and moves on, I say let them go. Gear treadmills are for sub-based games.

I just want to be able to make a squad of “finished” lvl 80s. For me, the game doesn’t truly begin until a character is max level and outfitted in the best gear for the build that I’m using. Additional progression is through improving my (the player) skill so that I can tackle progressively more difficult challenges.

So it’s exactly a game like Diablo III then. New ad hoc difficulty – new ad hoc loot. What developers said on manifesto was just some ideas they had in their minds at that moment. It probably should not be taken very seriously.

They want to make a free-to-play WoW and that’s the driving force before their decisions. I may be old-fashioned gamer, but I’ve no interest in games that make me feel like I have second job.