Guild Wars 2

Sprawl.3891:

castlemanic.3198:

Sprawl.3891:

you could roll alts, and do 5 mans and pvp. All optional of course

and what else is there in GW2? Roll alt, do dungeons and WvW.

In WoW they intentionally made it clear that raids were the only game type that they would cater to for most of their content, and primarily all fun was at end game content.

in GW2 they intentionally made it clear that all content is end game and viable throughout the game, so that it can be enjoyed by anyone fully, because the entire game would have been catered to equally.

It’s been shown only a small % of people who play WoW actually do large raids, I believe <20%. So, no. Majority of players, play casually to level, craft and run simple 5 mans.

Ironically, they’ve made the majority of their endgame, where their fun is in that game, only for that <20 percent. Saying that the majority of players play casually doesnt change the fact that the only form of endgame they cater to is raids.

Loosifah.4739:

Crater.1625:

Loosifah.4739:

Did you REALLY expect them to not add any additional sets/armors/weapons/etc. to the game EVER?

No. We expected them to never add better sets/armour/weapon/etc to the game, EVER.

Then you’re a kitten naive person. The game has only been out for 3 months and you expect them to never add anything better to use over time. This isn’t about a gear treadmill it’s about keeping content challenging and fun.

If you never add better equipment with better stats and new upgrades then new dungeons and monsters and events would be no harder to complete other than new mechanics.

In 7 years they never did this to GW1 and made fantastic content that was both interesting and challenging.

You don’t need a gear treadmill to make a good mmo. This is the line the Anet has stated many time, and it’s a line that many of us truly believe.

Does anybody else realize that this is our Elite content? No more UW that rewards you for your skill, build, and experience, but rather for your time spent grinding? Raid tiers have replaced our Elite areas.

It seems the “don’t play there if you don’t like it” crowd seems to forget that treadmillers aren’t the only type of hardcore players, in fact I’d argue that that they’re less hardcore than those of us who like to actually be challenged by the gameplay itself rather than antiquated gear checks.

Not to mention that there will be rewards that scale with your “difficulty” level in there that chances are most people who don’t fall into the tier trap will never get the chance to obtain. If you like doing challenging content for rare rewards tough luck, you’re stuck playing mini-wow. Better get that gear score up if you want Dhuum’s Soul Reaper.

First post for some highlights of what you can expect when they’re done rolling out this type of content:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Some-things-you-may-have-missed/first#post715275

QQ doesn’t start until the second post.

Wasselin.1235:

The sad thing is that even if they reversed their decision, they’ve still tarnished their word and all without blinking an eye. Their blog post just pretends they never said anything about grinding and gear treadmills.

If I had known they’d randomly cave to the one kiddy that actually wants a gear treadmill I wouldn’t even have bought the game.

One thing I’d like to encourage, is to speak for yourself. A lot of people assume things when it comes to who plays what beforehand, who is a gw1 vet, etc. A majority is something we cannot conclude given we are not the data stewards. Please, just speak for yourself. It’s annoying the heck out of me. regardless of this is a record-breaking thread. You have no numbers so quit making stupid claims.

munkiman.3068:

Creslin.1758:

munkiman.3068:

Creslin.1758:

The only thing that makes it mandatory is that (from what we have heard) the new gear type will ONLY be available via the dungeon, and that gear type is STATISTICALLY SUPERIOR to exotics.

Therefore, if you want to have the best gear for WvW…you gotta run the fractals.

Baseless assumption is baseless. You have no idea if this is even the case or not. Ascended gear, for all you know, might be a random WvW drop. Or otherwise attainable in WvW for badges…

This is a direct quote from their blog post…

Players will be able to acquire Ascended Rings in the Fractals of the Mists dungeon, and Ascended items worn on the back can be acquired through special Mystic Forge recipes.

I don’t see this saying it can’t be acquired in WvW. Even PvP has access to the forge. For all you know you might just be able to walk into the dungeon and buy the ring for 1g or karma. There is a ton of random assumptions going on and very little logical based on facts conclusions being made.

Pretty much says you get the rings in the Fractals dungeon…not sure how more clear it can be. I mean, sure it doesn’t explicitly say that you CANNOT get the rings in WvW…but people typically don’t list every single method in which you cannot achieve a goal lol.

Who knows what they will do in the future, but right now, it’s looking like you have to do that dungeon to get the rings.

jboynton.7894:

Vorch.2985:

ANet adds a tier so that people can attain stats closer to that of a legendary.

THEREFORE; GW2 is a gear grind/gear treadmill/WoW clone.

Slippery Slope Argument:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/slippery-slope.html

Anet is not adding ascended gear so that people can attain stats closer to that of a legendary. Legendary weapons currently have the same stats as exotics.

This patch is increasing the stats on a new tier of gear and at a later time increasing legendary weapons to equal that of ascended weapons. Hence a new stat.

Nice link though. Fortunate for you, you can find anything on the internet and it’s all pure truth.

^ This.

What the kitten is wrong with actually making LEGENDARY gear more you know….legendary?

Gingelyr.3648:

Vorch.2985:

ANet adds a tier so that people can attain stats closer to that of a legendary.

You’re so uninformed. Exotics have identical stats to legendaries. Check the wiki if you don’t believe me.

Frostfang Legendary Axe
http://www.gw2db.com/items/56205-frostfang

Carrion Pearl Reaver
http://www.gw2db.com/items/56379-carrion-pearl-reaver

Stats are not identical…

Jnaathra.6549:

“Is it Fun? Colin Johanson on How ArenaNet Measures Success”

“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success

LOL! Oh man, that is too rich.

Hydrophidian.4319:

A distributor.

I suspect that ANet wasn’t responding to forum feedback here. I suspect this development is more due to pressure from the Big Bosses, who seem to think there is only one template for a successful MMO.

You see, as someone who played City of Heroes for 8 years, I’ve been here before. The common denominator: NCSoft.

At its heart, I think this is all the result of: 1. culture clash and 2. a dysfunctional corporate methodology (that is plaguing just about every big distributor these days, not just NCSoft).

I suspect that if ANet had been left to its own devices, we wouldn’t be seeing this shift in design trajectory. Unfortunately, a great deal is resting on the success of this title, and NCSoft has recently restructured and ‘streamlined’ its focus.

In light of that, this all makes a certain amount of (depressing) sense.

As someone who hasn’t played any other NCSoft subsidiary title before, could you provide further details? I’m interested in knowing how it turned out for you in City of Heroes. Did the developers manage to stick to their guns in the end? Since you played it for eight years I imagine you must have enjoyed the game despite issues like this coming up.

ExpiredLifetime.1083:

Turtlemilk.1064:

fathamburger.8453:

ESO aka Elder Scrolls Online is coming next year… yes I’ll be in for future free updates but you might as well save your money since like most people.. I will not be buying your expansions just for a reason to grind more dungeons for more useless gear that will be replaced again and so forth.

http://ca.ign.com/videos/2012/11/08/the-elder-scrolls-online-gameplay-video

Yes, because that is exactly what ArenaNet said is going to happen.

Sigh.

ArenaNet stated they were going to release new infusions and types of ascended gear (all obviously the same tier). Honestly… why are you people acting so silly? The idiocracy burns so much I feel like you all must be trolling.

The idiocy that I see is in this post. Have you even looked at it? They compared an exotic level ring with an ascended level ring. Both magic find, ascended level had 5 stat points more to every stat, and 3% more magic find. If those numbers carry over to everything else, you’re going to be looking at roughly 100 more stat points for a full ascended set versus an exotic set. And that’s quite a difference.

Uh, yeah? Ascended gear is better than exotic… of course it’s going to be more powerful.

Honestly, this is worse than the presidential debate.

I see a lot of (I say a lot but it is relatively few compared to those that are against this update) of people saying that this is needed and adds “depth” or whatever crap they come up with to rationalize this update. The simple fact is that most of the people that bought this game bought it because of the very fact that this game would not have something as depthless as gear treadmills. Johanssen even made fun of them and Anet fed us that for years. I have a feeling that most of these people, anets core fans, the people still kittening playing, will eventually leave over this.

So to the few that welcome the unwelcome grind, good luck finding those that agree with you and look out for server mergers if this trend continues.

Yeah, I’m disappointed, just watching the manifesto again is heartbreaking… maybe some of the Dev’s are watching it too and also rage in frustration?

As for feedback… there is still time to apply a new mechanic that will mitigate the “feeling of wasted effort” that we are all having. Making our current gear upgrade (get mats from the new dungeon put them in the forge = Ascended armor) will help ease the transition as all the gold we spend “doesn’t get wasted” and after that forgetting about new tiers and simply manage upgrades through infusions (different dungeons require different infusions).

In the meantime I will stay cautiously optimistic, I’m abandoning my alts since I don’t know if I can keep up 1 toon “up to date”, maintaining all 8 would be impossible for me (regretting buying the extra toon slots..).

Also I must stop gem purchases for now, not making a “stand” or anything like that simply, as your resident economist adviser can tell you, in times of uncertainty rational people stop spending money, at least until they feel its safe to spend again.

Right now I don’t feel safe.

Nephaerius.9103:

funforums.4850:

But wait a second.
I don’t like this change, but you won’t be using that gear in sPvP. You can use it in PvE and WvWvW.

Guys, my gf survived to an entire WvW session (lasted 1 evening) with a lvl2 warrior and equip, without dying… will some ascended armors/weapons make difference?
It’s a 300vs300 game mode.

What did she do that was worth anything? Standing around not dying at lvl 2 doesn’t mean anything. Are you seriously going to argue that your lvl 2 girlfriend brings more to the table in a fight than a lvl 80 currently decked out in Exotics. Factually you’re just wrong. If you’re fine with competing on uneven footing good for you. I’m not. I don’t play WoW because the skill ceiling is abysmally low and outside of that it’s all my numbers are bigger than yours.

And to everyone else saying “It’s 300 v 300 not 1v1” What game are you playing? I engage in small skirmishes of less than 5 per side in WvWvW all the time and certainly a ton of 1v1’s and 1v2’s. If you would actually roam and work for your team rather than just running around in a mindless zerg you might actually experience what us “complainers” are talking about.

Rofl, haters gonna hate.
It depends on how you play. You are seeking for balance in a 300v300 game mode in which both people with lvl2 equip and people with lvl80 equip can play. You’re actually searching for balance in a game mode that is NOT balanced at all.
If you like going roaming in team sized of 2 people, good for you, but it’s not the way WvW is meant to be played, i think. Btw, she has a lvl80 char, but tried to WvW with a lvl2 warrior.

Anyway, I don’t know if you did actually read the message, but I don’t like this change. I wanted the game to be perfectly balanced as it was until now.
But probably your attention got struck by a whining attack..

Creslin.1758:

Vorch.2985:

ANet adds a tier so that people can attain stats closer to that of a legendary.

THEREFORE; GW2 is a gear grind/gear treadmill/WoW clone.

Slippery Slope Argument:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/slippery-slope.html

You know, I really, really with that all this was just a mob mentality riffing on baseless assumptions, but sadly…it is not. Here is a direct quote from ANet’s blog:

The new additions in November are just the start of our item progression initiative. We’re going to add tons of new high-level content to Guild Wars 2 in the future. As we introduce the new high-level content, we’ll also roll out complimentary Ascended and Legendary items (to say nothing of the other rewards you can earn by playing the content).

It is, unfortunately, extremely clear that they are intending to keep introducing progressively more powerful item tiers.

Your quote says that they will be releasing more items of the Ascended and Legendary tier, not adding tiers above ascended; which is what people are assuming from the patch notes.

Which is why this is a slippery slope argument.

Loosifah.4739:

jboynton.7894:

Vorch.2985:

ANet adds a tier so that people can attain stats closer to that of a legendary.

THEREFORE; GW2 is a gear grind/gear treadmill/WoW clone.

Slippery Slope Argument:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/slippery-slope.html

Anet is not adding ascended gear so that people can attain stats closer to that of a legendary. Legendary weapons currently have the same stats as exotics.

This patch is increasing the stats on a new tier of gear and at a later time increasing legendary weapons to equal that of ascended weapons. Hence a new stat.

Nice link though. Fortunate for you, you can find anything on the internet and it’s all pure truth.

^ This.

What the kitten is wrong with actually making LEGENDARY gear more you know….legendary?

Because the game was built on legendary being cosmetic, not performance-based.

If you want performanced-based gear upgrades there are many mmo options. GW2 progression is based around player skill and item-cosmetics.

The proposed changes fly in the face of this development goal. That’s why many of us respond loudly.

Xsorus.2507:

Really? you’re going to try and bring up WvWvW that had a far greater system in it called Orbs up until a little while ago..

The Bonus stats weren’t the big problem with Orbs, it was the 15% bonus to Health that was the problem.

Orbs were poorly thought up and now they are removed. Will these items be removed?

Orbs could also at least be rectified, by capturing them in WvW – the same mode they affected. Will ascended items or their equivalent be obtainable in WvW? Or are we being forced to dungeon grind in order to be on a level field in WvW, when Anet’s original philosophy is that you could hit gear plateau in any avenue of the game you enjoyed doing.

So far, it looks like a disaster and betrayal of that concept.

Loosifah.4739:

Crater.1625:

Loosifah.4739:

Did you REALLY expect them to not add any additional sets/armors/weapons/etc. to the game EVER?

No. We expected them to never add better sets/armour/weapon/etc to the game, EVER.

Then you’re a kitten naive person. The game has only been out for 3 months and you expect them to never add anything better to use over time. This isn’t about a gear treadmill it’s about keeping content challenging and fun.

If you never add better equipment with better stats and new upgrades then new dungeons and monsters and events would be no harder to complete other than new mechanics.

If they increase the health pool and damage of a mob in a dungeon but also increase the stats of player gear thus giving you a larger health pool and damage; how is that making anything harder?

Vorch.2985:

Gingelyr.3648:

Vorch.2985:

ANet adds a tier so that people can attain stats closer to that of a legendary.

You’re so uninformed. Exotics have identical stats to legendaries. Check the wiki if you don’t believe me.

Frostfang Legendary Axe
http://www.gw2db.com/items/56205-frostfang

Carrion Pearl Reaver
http://www.gw2db.com/items/56379-carrion-pearl-reaver

Stats are not identical…

Yeah, I have a legendary already, stats are the same. gw2db is outdated stat-wise.

Vorch.2985:

Frostfang Legendary Axe
http://www.gw2db.com/items/56205-frostfang

Carrion Pearl Reaver
http://www.gw2db.com/items/56379-carrion-pearl-reaver

Stats are not identical…

You sir, are an idiot.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Meteorlogicus
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Storm

Way to use data from before the release of the kitten game.

Loosifah.4739:

Sousuke.7268:

No Anet, just no.

There is absolutely NO need for a new gear tier. I refuse to grind for this bullkitten just so I can have max stat gear. This is not what Guild Wars was supposed to be.

Just give us more unique skins and everyone will be happy.

Nobodies making you do anything for slightly better equipment.

Yes, they are. Read a little before replying about something you have no idea about.

Since they clearly stated that those items are dungeon exclusive, its only logical to assume that I will have to grind that dungeon n times to collect a full set of “uber” gear.

This is kitten and unnecessary. Guild Wars 1 proves this.

They have just aimed their gun at their own foot. If the patch rolls out with this “slight” change, they will also pull the trigger. One loyal customer less (I spent a lot of money on both of their games), and I’m sure I wont be the only one.

Icelin.8412:

I don’t really agree with this either, but it’s not like they will take it into consideration. 3 months? I feel like that is way to soon, even WoW 6 months or so.. same with Diablo 3 took about 6 months after the release. 3 months? I feel that is so ridiculous, that they rushed to get something out.

“Oh we don’t want people to feel like it’s a grind-fest.” Yet let’s push out content faster then any other game to keep people interested. If you created a good game people will stick with it regardless.

“Oh people are getting legendaries to fast.” Really? I only see one of them once in a blue moon, you mean the people who wasted tons of in real life money, or farmed exploited events, or botters have their legendaries. The casual gamer though is not even that close to there legendaries so favor the people that have no life or cheated.

I’m not as mad as some people though I didn’t waste my gold, karma or anything soon as I saw something was going to be released. I posted because I just wanted them to know that this release was pretty early and I am curious what to expect, another release in 2 months? Like CALM DOWN. Maybe work on fixing bugs and glitches before working on new content.

Vena.8436:

Vorch.2985:

Frostfang Legendary Axe
http://www.gw2db.com/items/56205-frostfang

Carrion Pearl Reaver
http://www.gw2db.com/items/56379-carrion-pearl-reaver

Stats are not identical…

You sir, are an idiot.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Meteorlogicus
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Storm

Way to use data from before the release of the kitten game.

Yup, i made a mistake…therefore I’m an idiot. My bad.

and the community shows it’s true colors…gg peeps. I’ll let you guys enjoy the hyperbole chamber.

Snow.5269:

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

When I purchased GW2, this is what I believed. I was purchasing something different. Something special. Arenanet, you have the power to keep this game special. Please make this decision carefully.

sigh

well i want to say grats to everyone that wasn’t able to read it, the gear from that instance will be based to upgrade towards the infusion wich is mainly used for the new condition that is only there in that one instance atm.

so your gear doesn’t get bad its just as good, its just a extra set to do a extra instance. stop crying.

::TLDR:: Just my two cents beow, but I think Anet’s solution only answers the endgame piece while furthering the problem of keeping the current content worth engaging/playing.

At first I was all for this idea, but I forgot to consider the impact on the rest of the game… and that has changed my opinion to be not for it. I will say that this is speculation cause I haven’t seen anything, but consider the following:

If this dungeon offers armor, will the Ascended gear have the 8 or 9 stat variations (berserker, valkarie, knight, rampager, etc.) or will it introduce new stat variations like power/precision/vitality (pretty sure that doesn’t exist)? If it’s the original 8 or 9 variations, even if the ascended gear has exotic stats, then why would a player do any of the former explore mode dungeons (other than for kicks or nostalgia purposes)? Rather than going to CoE for this, TA for that (and wherever else for whatever purpose), you basically “one stop shop” for Ascended gear of the stat variation you’re looking for. The stat inflation just furthers the shift of players not wanting to do the older dungeons…. look, I want something fresh, but not necessarily at the cost completely abandoning the current dungeon content.

So Ascended gear is basically to build up resistance to “Agony” as well as a small stat pump… doesn’t this create a “gated community” effect not so much in terms of + stats that we’re familiar with, but more “agony resistance”? I guess you can deal with it, but as more parts of this dungeon get unlocked over time, and I’m guessing each new section having greater need for Agony resistance, what’s in place for fresh players or returning players to catch up?

IMO, though it’s probably too late, all level 70-80 gear should have a slot for inscriptions. Ascended gear shouldn’t have extra stats and only offer backpacks, jewelry, and any weapons/armor with stat variations that don’t current exist (like power/precision/vit)…. If you like the Ascended skin, transmute it. The Lost Shore dungeon should be grabbing these pieces and getting inscriptions, while all the original content should still be about building your “ideal” set of gear (stat-wise) through crafting and/or explore mode dungeons. Inscriptions should also be earned through other means like WvW server victories (assuming you participated that week) or story/explore mode dungeons, or whatever…

Fnar.7064:

Just adding my voice that I am opposed to this idea. Ever since I read about it, I have desired less to play the game knowing that my characters will eventually reach a point where I have to consider this tiered item progression.

I’m another player who bought into this game, and convinced my girlfriend and several friends to play, because we were ready for a change to this exact mechanic. If this truly is the course for the game, we aren’t going to support it by spending any money in the item store and our playtime will continue to wane as it already has.

It’s a shame, too. I loved this game until I read this news. Literally fell completely in love with it. But with this news that feeling seems to have completely evaporated. I hope ArenaNet reconsiders based on this feedback, but since it is right on the horizon I have doubts that will happen.

I feel exactly the same. I’m actually in some kind of shock – no desire to launch the game since head start.
Why should I even try to get my exotic gear when it will be obsolete in no time? It feels so pointless now.

I also got all my friends into this game and they were amazed by GW2’s design philosophy: horizontal progression – finally – ingenious! No need to hurry or grind in order to stay on par with the rest of the players.

Now I just feel like going back to my LotRO lifetime sub and grinding out yet another legendary weapon tier….. what difference does it make? All MMOs are the same… again……………………………… (might as well buy MoP now)

Loosifah.4739:

God you people will complain about anything. So they’re adding a new “slightly” better tier of equipment after 3 months. Did you REALLY expect them to not add any additional sets/armors/weapons/etc. to the game EVER? It’s not like this armor is even going to be that much better than what you already have. Chill the kitten out and enjoy the game.

Here is just one quote that Anet made on why this game wasn’t about new tiers of gear:

Quote from Mike O’Brien
“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

Would you like more quotes?

I totally agree. but don’t you find it weird this post is more entertaining then the game it self right now?

Halbarz.3854:

well i want to say grats to everyone that wasn’t able to read it, the gear from that instance will be based to upgrade towards the infusion wich is mainly used for the new condition that is only there in that one instance atm.

so your gear doesn’t get bad its just as good, its just a extra set to do a extra instance. stop crying.

This is incorrect, they’ve shown already that the stats are better than exotics.

xeph.8410:

Hydrophidian.4319:

A distributor.

I suspect that ANet wasn’t responding to forum feedback here. I suspect this development is more due to pressure from the Big Bosses, who seem to think there is only one template for a successful MMO.

You see, as someone who played City of Heroes for 8 years, I’ve been here before. The common denominator: NCSoft.

At its heart, I think this is all the result of: 1. culture clash and 2. a dysfunctional corporate methodology (that is plaguing just about every big distributor these days, not just NCSoft).

I suspect that if ANet had been left to its own devices, we wouldn’t be seeing this shift in design trajectory. Unfortunately, a great deal is resting on the success of this title, and NCSoft has recently restructured and ‘streamlined’ its focus.

In light of that, this all makes a certain amount of (depressing) sense.

As someone who hasn’t played any other NCSoft subsidiary title before, could you provide further details? I’m interested in knowing how it turned out for you in City of Heroes. Did the developers manage to stick to their guns in the end? Since you played it for eight years I imagine you must have enjoyed the game despite issues like this coming up.

No, they didn’t.

6 years in, they caved and added an “endgame” to a game that didn’t have one and didn’t need one – large-scale raids like WoW’s, at a time when even WoW was pulling back from that style because it’s not rewarding to a mature gamer playerbase (players aren’t mostly teens anymore – they’re adults with jobs and families.)

Then the game went F2P.

NCsoft shutters it at the end of the month.

It was a phenomenal game, and much like GW2, was a “the journey is the reward” style game, with a unique progression system, sidekicking/upleveling, cosmetics being your only visible “gear” and your actual +stats gear invisible, and a lot of other remarkable things like being able to craft and publish your own quests in-game. It was unique in the MMO market.

People will find anything to cry about. I’m done keeping up with this thread.

Just enjoy the new content and be happy that this will likely be the last tier of equipment to be released. Just because you spent the first 2 months of the game getting everything you have now doesn’t mean that’s the only stuff you should ever have to get. Whiny little kitten

Vorch.2985:

Creslin.1758:

Vorch.2985:

ANet adds a tier so that people can attain stats closer to that of a legendary.

THEREFORE; GW2 is a gear grind/gear treadmill/WoW clone.

Slippery Slope Argument:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/slippery-slope.html

You know, I really, really with that all this was just a mob mentality riffing on baseless assumptions, but sadly…it is not. Here is a direct quote from ANet’s blog:

The new additions in November are just the start of our item progression initiative. We’re going to add tons of new high-level content to Guild Wars 2 in the future. As we introduce the new high-level content, we’ll also roll out complimentary Ascended and Legendary items (to say nothing of the other rewards you can earn by playing the content).

It is, unfortunately, extremely clear that they are intending to keep introducing progressively more powerful item tiers.

Your quote says that they will be releasing more items of the Ascended and Legendary tier, not adding tiers above ascended; which is what people are assuming from the patch notes.

Which is why this is a slippery slope argument.

They say that this is “just the beginning” of a new “item progression initiative.” This strongly implies more tiers. I would not call one tier an entire “item progression initiative.”

And even if this is all a misunderstanding, they really need to get out there like NOW and tell us what is going on. If they only ever intend to release ascended, then they need to say so. By the mere fact that they are remaining mum also implies that it isn’t a misunderstanding and their plan is to progressively roll out more item tiers and time goes on.

My physical response to reading the news article about Ascended gear was a surge of something akin to nausea.

Do you people (Anet) remember at all what mad GW1 good? Forcing us to jump through a new set of upgrade hoops and once again having to use transmog stones or lose the armor appearances we actually want is not fun for everyone.

You want to know why so many of us rushed to level 80 and spend all our time online farming events in Cursed Shore? It was to cut to the end of the endless wastage of grinding equipment over and over and over. And now you want us to do it all over again?!

Remember orbs? Intended to give losing teams a way to gain an advantage, they always ended up simply reinforcing the winning server. Ascended gear is similar – it rewards the “winners” (people who have spent $$ to get gold and can buy anything they want on the tp, and/or people who spend all their time farming) while providing a barrier to everyone else (those of us who dont want to drop more $$ on a $60 game, and/or have lives).

Infusions is just like the old WoW raid resisting gears, which force players to grind resisting gears for raid boss. It’s a stupid lazy design to keep people playing this game and WoW no longer use .

Vorch.2985:

Vena.8436:

Vorch.2985:

Frostfang Legendary Axe
http://www.gw2db.com/items/56205-frostfang

Carrion Pearl Reaver
http://www.gw2db.com/items/56379-carrion-pearl-reaver

Stats are not identical…

You sir, are an idiot.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Meteorlogicus
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Storm

Way to use data from before the release of the kitten game.

Yup, i made a mistake…therefore I’m an idiot. My bad.

and the community shows it’s true colors…gg peeps. I’ll let you guys enjoy the hyperbole chamber.

Yeah, sorry Vorch, apparently that’s what die-hard philosophy people will say to you when you make a mistake :\

Webba.3071:

drwookie.6391:

The problem really started from the very beginning when they changed their character design from GW1. With the hundreds of skills to collect like cards, you had an excellent horizontal progression in GW1.

Getting your best skills from defeated enemies was also a great element that really merged the deck building and pve game really well. Not sure why they never tried to carry that into GW2 tbh, beyond skillpoints that is.

What percentage of the skills in GW1 did you actually use, other than just screwing around with before going back to the ones that were actually good and more generally useful? How much of the player base was actually using Supportive Spirit ?

The Guild Wars 1 skill model was loosely based on collectible card games like Magic: The Gathering. Of course, most Magic players know that many of the cards are basically filler and that they rarely find a place in serious play, which is pretty much how the skills in Guild Wars 1 ended up. Yes, the first game had a lot of skills to collect, most of which were outclassed by some other similar skill.

I also hated the way acquiring elites worked in that game, personally.

The really bad thing about this is it’s THE START. Yes, the stat increase is small, and won’t really give you an edge over exotics, but this is only within 3 months of release. If this keeps up, we’ll soon see the exotics (supposed to be the highest tier, kitten lies) buried and end up being lower than mid tier… I love so much about this game and yes, the idea of this game becoming just like the other games makes me sad. Of course, deep inside I’m hoping this is the last of it, or at least they make the items work in dungeons only(since they seem to work separately as instances, like PvP.) Then I’d be fine with all the changes. With all the bugs and class balancing issues , ANet chose to go back on their promise instead. Good days ahead…

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Honestly, this is worse than the presidential debate.

You mean like Anet caught romnesia and forgot about the manifesto? Or like they are giving us a sketchy deal?

So peoples issue is a gear treadmill? This is the best decision ever, finally have something to look forward to. I don’t get why people are playing an MMO if they dont like progression. Progression is proven and its what makes an MMO a success, sounds like what some of you are looking for is easy access to everything, that doesn’t work in the long run, thats a game that you end up putting on the shelf after a few months.

Vorch.2985:

Gingelyr.3648:

Vorch.2985:

ANet adds a tier so that people can attain stats closer to that of a legendary.

You’re so uninformed. Exotics have identical stats to legendaries. Check the wiki if you don’t believe me.

Frostfang Legendary Axe
http://www.gw2db.com/items/56205-frostfang

Carrion Pearl Reaver
http://www.gw2db.com/items/56379-carrion-pearl-reaver

Stats are not identical…

GW2DB is wrong. These are the correct stats on the Ghastly Greatsword and Sunrise.

Exotic and Legendary have the same stats.

I love how the mods are just throwing all the threads made to protest this kitten into this thread to mitigate the extreme negative view that this change in manifesto has garnered.

Keep up the good work, maybe no one will notice that everyone hates this.

Cancer.9065:

Yeah, I’m disappointed, just watching the manifesto again is heartbreaking… maybe some of the Dev’s are watching it too and also rage in frustration?

As for feedback… there is still time to apply a new mechanic that will mitigate the “feeling of wasted effort” that we are all having. Making our current gear upgrade (get mats from the new dungeon put them in the forge = Ascended armor) will help ease the transition as all the gold we spend “doesn’t get wasted” and after that forgetting about new tiers and simply manage upgrades through infusions (different dungeons require different infusions).

In the meantime I will stay cautiously optimistic, I’m abandoning my alts since I don’t know if I can keep up 1 toon “up to date”, maintaining all 8 would be impossible for me (regretting buying the extra toon slots..).

Also I must stop gem purchases for now, not making a “stand” or anything like that simply, as your resident economist adviser can tell you, in times of uncertainty rational people stop spending money, at least until they feel its safe to spend again.

Right now I don’t feel safe.

+1, This.. please this.. Make current exotics upgradeable somehow.. you get an item that allows you to MF an exotic armor into ascended armor and you get to keep the skin. I would be very happy with this… it feels less like I wasted my time getting my exotics.. less like I’m being forced to get new gear, but instead enhancing the gear I already have.

+1 Cancer’s comment if you agree please ^.^

Feycat.4370:

xeph.8410:

Hydrophidian.4319:

A distributor.

I suspect that ANet wasn’t responding to forum feedback here. I suspect this development is more due to pressure from the Big Bosses, who seem to think there is only one template for a successful MMO.

You see, as someone who played City of Heroes for 8 years, I’ve been here before. The common denominator: NCSoft.

At its heart, I think this is all the result of: 1. culture clash and 2. a dysfunctional corporate methodology (that is plaguing just about every big distributor these days, not just NCSoft).

I suspect that if ANet had been left to its own devices, we wouldn’t be seeing this shift in design trajectory. Unfortunately, a great deal is resting on the success of this title, and NCSoft has recently restructured and ‘streamlined’ its focus.

In light of that, this all makes a certain amount of (depressing) sense.

As someone who hasn’t played any other NCSoft subsidiary title before, could you provide further details? I’m interested in knowing how it turned out for you in City of Heroes. Did the developers manage to stick to their guns in the end? Since you played it for eight years I imagine you must have enjoyed the game despite issues like this coming up.

No, they didn’t.

6 years in, they caved and added an “endgame” to a game that didn’t have one and didn’t need one – large-scale raids like WoW’s, at a time when even WoW was pulling back from that style because it’s not rewarding to a mature gamer playerbase (players aren’t mostly teens anymore – they’re adults with jobs and families.)

Then the game went F2P.

NCsoft shutters it at the end of the month.

It was a phenomenal game, and much like GW2, was a “the journey is the reward” style game, with a unique progression system, sidekicking/upleveling, cosmetics being your only visible “gear” and your actual +stats gear invisible, and a lot of other remarkable things like being able to craft and publish your own quests in-game. It was unique in the MMO market.

Lol, “mature” playerbase isn’t so mature now. Maybe age was, but not character-wise.

camoflaugz.5031:

So peoples issue is a gear treadmill? This is the best decision ever, finally have something to look forward to. I don’t get why people are playing an MMO if they dont like progression. Progression is proven and its what makes an MMO a success, sounds like what some of you are looking for is easy access to everything, that doesn’t work in the long run, thats a game that you end up putting on the shelf after a few months.

Progression doesn’t have to be vertical.

It doesn’t do Anet any good to have people grinding the game for month after month. There’s no sub fee.

Anet doesn’t seem to understand that GW1 was a niche market game and GW2 is much the same, at least compared against a behemoth like WoW.

GW2 can’t be WoW, will not be able to successfully steal WoW players with the same model done worse, and is only going to piss off their niche market fans – who came to this game precisely because it wasn’t every other MMO on the market.

Remember the sales pitch about players who didn’t like MMO’s should try their game, because its different. Well now its no longer different. It’s the same just inferior at what other games already do better and have much more experience and practice in doing.

Hey guys,
Did you know everything in this game is optional? In fact it’s even optional for me to double click the game to play it. It’s optional for me to have it on my HDD too. It’s also optional for me to turn on my PC.

Hopefully the sarcasm is not so thick folks can’t see where I’m going with this…..

camoflaugz.5031:

So peoples issue is a gear treadmill? This is the best decision ever, finally have something to look forward to. I don’t get why people are playing an MMO if they dont like progression. Progression is proven and its what makes an MMO a success, sounds like what some of you are looking for is easy access to everything, that doesn’t work in the long run, thats a game that you end up putting on the shelf after a few months.

This game was built and sold with the premise of no gear treadmill. Many of us find carrot and stick development uninteresting. There are many other mmos that do those games well. GW2 was supposed to be our oasis in the gear-treadmill desert.

There are other ways to progress than blatant gear upgrades. Skill upgrades, cosmetic, horizontal progression. Not vertical.

Loosifah.4739:

People will find anything to cry about. I’m done keeping up with this thread.

Just enjoy the new content and be happy that this will likely be the last tier of equipment to be released. Just because you spent the first 2 months of the game getting everything you have now doesn’t mean that’s the only stuff you should ever have to get. Whiny little kitten

I think you missed the whole point. More than once it seems. ANet made it clear you shouldn’t HAVE to get any gear, except gear you wanted to have a different appearance with. If you are going to debate something, at least get it right.