Guild Wars 2

Nar.8327:

camoflaugz.5031:

krookie.6378:

camoflaugz.5031:

No I’m not trolling, but I shouldn’t say nothing is fun, that was wrong, I take that back. I would say at end game I need something to keep me going. This is an MMO, thats what MMO players look for at the end. If i didn’t want to do that I would just play a single player console game or something. As of now I don’t really log on that much because I’m waiting for the patch.

Speak for yourself. This is not what MMO players look for at the end. This is what you and those trained by WoW’s Skinner box look for at the end. Those of us who played UO and GW1 do not look for a gear grind at the end.

I played all MMO’s some for short time some for long. In the end the MMO that has more to do lasts and this has been proven by Millions of MMO players already. So I would say yes MMO players do look for this at the end. Whats the point of playing an MMO that has no progression? Its suppose to be built to last

No one’s complaining about having more to do. We’re complaining about being promised that this MMO would do it differently, where no one with more free time would have a statistical advantage over anyone else.

Maybe this is just targeted for the hardcore players? It seems to me that we have two different kinds of players. For the hardcore players which I seem to fall in that category now even though I don’t think I’m hardcore, we want to do things like that were your rewarded for your time. Im not really thinking of advantages over anybody Im only thinking of playing the game the way I enjoy it which is playing with a goal in mind.

The other group of players seem to just want to log in and do anything like jumping puzzles etc.. They can still do all those things.. but people like me and others that don’t post on here want something more than that. I play on Jade Quarry, when I log in theres tons of people in orr. There not there just to do it, there farming karma. The mass people in that area that are there on my server kinda show what they want.

ExpiredLifetime.1083:

dimgl.4786:

ExpiredLifetime.1083:

Latinkuro.9420:

I’m a casual player and even I have 4 crafted exotic sets, 1 dungeon armor set, full compliment of exotic weapons usable by my profession, world completion is at 56% only.

Ascended gear is welcomed with open arms, people complain about gear hamster wheel but they do not see that ascended gear is just in between exotic and legendary, now if they add something like godly armor as higher than legendary THAT right there would be a gear hamster wheel.

Most of the people complaining, I see them as the part of the player base that never even touched guild wars 1 and have no idea about infused armor, how it works and how it is NOT part of a gear hamster wheel.

“This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.”

I would call that a treadmill.

Sounds like a treadmill, looks like a treadmill, feels like a treadmill. Probably is a treadmill.

And for this reason, I will very likely no longer be playing the game. There’s a couple of other games coming out soon that are much more unique than GW2 is, and I have lost all desire to stick with this game now.

and you think those games wont have gear progression?

good luck with that

I don’t like this.

Currently a lv 80 rare item is about 15 Silver. A exotic is about 1.5 Gold.
Assumption: The new gear will be about 15 Gold per piece.
15 Gold * 12 Gear Slots = 180 Gold.

I don’t want to do this((

Latinkuro.9420:

xeph.8410:

It constantly amazes me how many people think that Legendary items are better than Exotics.

Your signature, by the way, is very apt.

Yes better as in they have more pleasing aesthetics and cool effects.

If you realise that Legendaries and Exotics have the same stats, then surely you must realise that Ascended gear with better stats than Exotic is exactly what you call “armor as higher than legendary.”

Latinkuro.9420:

now if they add something like godly armor as higher than legendary THAT right there would be a gear hamster wheel.

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

GW2 Manifesto looks like the Pirates Code… “Its more like guidelines”

I can see Mike O’Brien doing the Johnny Depp run from all of the former GW2 customers

Firstly a non gear progression clause wasn’t part of your Gem purchase…….

Secondly your not a developer so the Maifesto doesn’t apply to you.

Thirdly anything on Youtube is more of a guideline. Welcome to Guild Wars 2!

We don’t need more stats. You can already tank and do a ton of damage in wvw. just BALANCE the game for Pvp and wvw, don’t add more stats that can further mess it up…..

Wheels on the buss go round and round…

Im still waiting to see , then i will form what i really think about it , BUT IF it works the way people are saying it does THEN i think it is a plain STUPID idea.

To have a better stat gear that we can only get from dungeons IS NOT ACCEPTABLE to me Anet , if this really is what is going to happen im going going to simple jump to the next MMO.

Crapgame.6519:

Anyone here in the U.S. notice this thread view count is spinning faster than our national debt? That should make everyone smile.

Replies: 5,354
Views: 48,840

On topic another thing that is somewhat troubling is that the content is out this weekend, there is trouble in the kitchen via this post, and all is quite on the game developers front.

Does this much chatter even warrent a pause?

They’ll probably claim that due to the rousing response for Ascended items (despite it being entirely negative), they’ve decided to add more new gear tiers.

Loosifah.4739:

Better looks? Rare cultural gear has better looks than most exotics.

Different Stat combinations? It would still just be exotic gear.

Infusion slot? That’s practically the only major difference, plus minor stat increases.

Stat increase is kitten we don´t want. It creates a new maximum, which leads power creep.
Arena net advertised the game to be free of that godawful thing, but now they´re backing away from their statements.

Cultural armors are perfect example how it should be, just about the looks.

Different stat distributions on items would retain the power level, avoid power creep, make new playstyles viable prolonging players interest in games and giving us horizontal progression.

Just having infusion slot would keep the impact of that new ger just where it was implemented, in that new dungeon.

What are you people going to say about this update when they announce fixes for everything you’ve been complaining about as well as the minor equipment upgrade?

Latinkuro.9420:

xeph.8410:

Latinkuro.9420:

Ascended gear is welcomed with open arms, people complain about gear hamster wheel but they do not see that ascended gear is just in between exotic and legendary, now if they add something like godly armor as higher than legendary THAT right there would be a gear hamster wheel.

It constantly amazes me how many people think that Legendary items are better than Exotics.

Your signature, by the way, is very apt.

Yes better as in they have more pleasing aesthetics and cool effects.

In his original post he never said legendary was better than exotic. However, I think we can all agree they are, and also were intended to be. There is a bonus to legendary, they have slightly higher stats than exotics, therefore are better.

They are supposed to look better as well. All he was referring to was the time it takes to gain these items when he said “between exotics and legendary”. Although bravo at the somewhat subtle attempt of picking off an irrelevant point (albeit incorrect)

Lothair.8942:

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

They were going to do this all along. That’s why it’s coming out before any cash shop expansion and without any real polling of the customer base. It has nothing to do with a lack of revenue or “customer feedback”. There’s no logic to those claims.

First off great post Win.

Agreed, it’s a known fact that developers of this game were talking about item progression and this type of initiative as far back as PAX. I just never thought they would implement it.

I agree with Win, but again, that makes no sense either.

Sure, it’s obvious that MMO additions are developed MONTHS ahead of time. If this change is based on “feedback,” it pretty much has to be on Beta feedback.

But it still makes NO sense to add this stuff BEFORE a major cash-shop roll out. Because as I’ve been posting over and over, this change and the gear grind it is introducing makes NO MONEY for the company, unless later additions are planned to be gem-shop only additions.

Loosifah.4739:

What are you people going to say about this update when they announce fixes for everything you’ve been complaining about as well as the minor equipment upgrade?

Everyone will applaud the fixes and continue to be just as pissed off as they are now concerning changes to gear. I fail to see your point.

Ethics.4519:

In his original post he never said legendary was better than exotic. However, I think we can all agree they are, and also were intended to be. There is a bonus to legendary, they have slightly higher stats than exotics, therefore are better.

As has been stated many, many times — Exotics and Legendary items have the same exact stats. Same. exact. stats.

krookie.6378:

EverythingXen.1835:

I didnt say it wasnt a lot of people. I said it wasnt enough.

I agree the lack of anything worthwhile on the cash shop isnt helping.

The gear progression is a temporary fix though. They may get an influx of new players from WoW but those players tend to go back when they finished devouring the content. I mean there is a reason why no other game is able to compete with WoW. If they offer the same type of game play as the original, people would try it and then go back. The original is always better.

A more fleshed out cash shop could solve any financial issues. This solution only really serves to alienate people who love GW2 specifically because it’s not a gear treadmill.

They may tend to go back, but some may stay. You need BOTH communities. The “no treadmills” arent financially viable, and as you said, the “treadmills” have other options when they feel like their time is wasted in GW2. The “treadmills” need to feel like their time isnt wasted. They arent mutally exclusive unless you want them to be.

Also, gear treadmill != gameplay. Just adding another teir of gear does not, in any way, make GW2 play like WoW.

EverythingXen.1835:

krookie.6378:

EverythingXen.1835:

I didnt say it wasnt a lot of people. I said it wasnt enough.

I agree the lack of anything worthwhile on the cash shop isnt helping.

The gear progression is a temporary fix though. They may get an influx of new players from WoW but those players tend to go back when they finished devouring the content. I mean there is a reason why no other game is able to compete with WoW. If they offer the same type of game play as the original, people would try it and then go back. The original is always better.

A more fleshed out cash shop could solve any financial issues. This solution only really serves to alienate people who love GW2 specifically because it’s not a gear treadmill.

They may tend to go back, but some may stay. You need BOTH communities. The “no treadmills” arent financially viable, and as you said, the “treadmills” have other options when they feel like their time is wasted in GW2. The “treadmills” need to feel like their time isnt wasted. They arent mutally exclusive unless you want them to be.

Also, gear treadmill != gameplay. Just adding another teir of gear does not, in any way, make GW2 play like WoW.

QFT^

I heared rumors that a few devs of ANET quitted their job lately? Does that has anything to do with ANET hurting their own principles? If so RESPECT!

Snerf.1650:

Loosifah.4739:

So just because they add new content with a few upgrades to equipment they’re trying to steal players from other games? They’re trying to imitate that horrible kitten game that just imitated everything before it?

Get a kitten clue man. WoW was not the first MMO and it is definitely not the best. Nor will it last forever. Times changes; games get new content. Just because there’s a little vertical progression doesn’t mean it’s going to destroy anything.

Who’s to say this won’t just turn into a diagonal progression then flatter back out to horizontal?

It absolutely is destroying the manifesto on which the game was designed and on which we purchased and played it.

No vertical progression beyond end game exotics. Period. Cosmetic progression only.

All arguments about the degree of which are irrelevant. Any vertical progression is counter to their design and unacceptable to us.

Quoted for truth.

ANet, what went wrong that you so drastically change your design principles?
Everyone I know loves this game!
Do you need money?
I will happily donate € 15,- each month if you stick to your horizontal prorgession approach. I will even pay for any of your free game updates!

The Halloween update was amazing, finally completing the clock tower jumping puzzle one of my greatest gaming moments.
Did I do it because of the loot? The stats on the exotic boots?
No! I did it because it was challenging and insanely fun. Period.

I’m willing to spend a lot of money on fun content like that but I won’t spend a MINUTE of my time on yet another stat treadmill!!!

Notice how all the pro-Ascended gear threads (defined by their OP) are not getting merged into this thread, even though they are also basically “thoughts on ascended gear”

Feycat.4370:

Lothair.8942:

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

They were going to do this all along. That’s why it’s coming out before any cash shop expansion and without any real polling of the customer base. It has nothing to do with a lack of revenue or “customer feedback”. There’s no logic to those claims.

First off great post Win.

Agreed, it’s a known fact that developers of this game were talking about item progression and this type of initiative as far back as PAX. I just never thought they would implement it.

I agree with Win, but again, that makes no sense either.

Sure, it’s obvious that MMO additions are developed MONTHS ahead of time. If this change is based on “feedback,” it pretty much has to be on Beta feedback.

But it still makes NO sense to add this stuff BEFORE a major cash-shop roll out. Because as I’ve been posting over and over, this change and the gear grind it is introducing makes NO MONEY for the company, unless later additions are planned to be gem-shop only additions.

Gear grind makes money if you have to continually transmute each new piece you upgrade to the desired cosmetic.

I assume this to be the case.

The real casualty from this debate is not going to be measured in departing players. It will not be measured in a change in the atmosphere of the forum, and it will not be measured by the collective angst of the community.

I’m not going to slide down a slippery slope of anxiety and decry Guild Wars 2 as somehow ruined, or predict the game becoming a staid clone of Warcraft two years down the road. I think that’s a gross exaggeration of the circumstances based on very little evidence.

I won’t get into a shouting match by taking sides in the perennial Casual v Hardcore debate. That’s a facetious fight and one that won’t ever end, and decrying Casuals for ruining the game with their whining or Hardcore players for ruining the game with their demands just blatantly misses the point.

I don’t care about the gear grind, or Ascended gear. So you have a new tier of gear with an Infusion mechanic about as innovative as Fire Resist/Nature Resist or Radiance. Great. Fine, whatever. I’m still going to play this game. I’m still going to participate in the Guardian community. I’m still going to level my alts. I’m still going to participate in seasonal events.

The real casualty here isn’t my money (I’m not spending any anyway, besides the occasional purchase on the Gem Store). The real casualty here is good will.

The real casualty is credibility. GW2 was designed on the passions of a development team with a very specific design philosophy: Buck the Trinity, make the game accessible for everyone, and toss out gear progression. Just like in GW1, gear was supposed to “stop” at Exotic and not inflate beyond that. You’d get your Exotics, and you were done gearing. Now you could do what you wanted. Now you were free. You were ready for all the content the game could throw at you. Gear should not be a gateway for more content. Gear should not be something you should keep up with.
That was the principle on which ArenaNet built its good will. That was the basis of the trust it cultivated between itself and its community.

Credibility is a form of capital: hard to define, hard to measure, hard to build, and very easy to lose.
I’m still going to play this game. I’m still going to level alts, explore the world, collect exotics and try new builds. But I’m a lot less enthusiastic about the game today than I was last week. And I’m far, far less likely to trust ArenaNet in the future. I’m not leaving; I’m not voting with my feet or my wallet.

ANet hasn’t lost my subscription because there wasn’t one to begin with. They haven’t lost my interest because I still love the game they’ve created. What they have lost is my good will, and that’s not something I give lightly, and it’s also not something anyone else values except me.

But it is what it is.

You know, I don’t really agree with all you doomsayers, and the introduction of a new tier of gear won’t make me quit (or come anywhere close). That being said, they could just make ascended armor a cosmetic thing. Make it a prestige item, like obsidian armor was in the first game. It didn’t do anything different than the other max armors, but hell, it looked nice and it was respectable (like legendaries are now).

Bruno Sardine.2907:

KrakenAZ.9367:

The ‘MMO Manifesto’ is looking more like an ’MMO Rough Guideline".

Let’s be clear, a Manifesto is merely a declaration of intentions, motives and perspectives by the author…. not a binding contract that locks them into a set of conditions.

While I don’t think this is necessarily the best solution for Anet, let’s recognize that they have total freedom in terms of deciding how they wish to move the game forward…. Total freedom doesn’t mean that all possible decisions they can make are good ones, there are still consequences and this decision might not shake out they way they want it to.

If you buy into something because of the manifesto behind it, and then 3 months later are told ‘never mind, we’ve secretly been working against all that’… well, that is a serious breach of trust and it completely shatters all credibility. Just saying.

ANet, here is how you fix this. I’m sure it has been suggested by several other posters here in this massive thread.

Make Ascended gear have the same stat allocation as Exotics but give them an infusion slot.
Make the upgrades in the infusion slot only provide benefit within the new fractal dungeon.
Give players a way to “ascend” their existing exotic gear to turn a piece of exotic gear into a piece of ascended gear that has an infusion slot using a consumable item that preserves the look of the gear and is obtainable by spending karma, honor badges, or gold via crafting.

In this way you make everyone happy.
The people who want a gear grind can grind in the new fractal dungeon to obtain better and better infusion slot upgrades.
The people who bought this game based on your promise that it would not have a gear treadmill can continue to enjoy the game sans treadmill as the rest of the game would remain unaffected by the infusion slot upgrades.

In all likelihood I will probably continue to play GW2 even if the ascended gear changes go though with ascended gear having better than exotic stats. However, if they do go though, and are not reverted, I will have to seriously reconsider future gem purchases. Because of your, up until now, conviction of sticking to your manifesto and quality of content, I have been more than willing to have purchased all of the bank slot upgrades, all of the bag slot upgrades for 1 of my characters, and the Mad King costume from the gem store. I was planning that I would eventually unlock the bag slots for my alts, and buy 2 more character slots as I began to play more of my alts, but if you renege on your manifesto promise of no gear treadmill and obsolete exotic gear a mere 3 months into the game after telling us exotic gear would be max stats forever, I, and I’m sure many others, am going to feel abandoned and cease my generous support.

I also understand that perhaps not all of this was your decision. Perhaps this is a result of pressure from NCSoft. I could probably make some intuitive and anecdotal arguments saying how alienating one’s core and most supportive user base is a terrible move for the long term well being of your game and revenue stream, and how you will never beat games like WoW at their own game of catering to those who love treadmills; how the only way your game became so popular at launch was through word of mouth of supportive fans touting the merits of your manifesto and dedication to not making the same design choices as every other MMO. But, if this is the case, I would only urge you to do more research on who is actually buying gems and supporting your game. Is is the people whining that there is nothing to do at end game and will likely leave your game anyway even with the introduction of ascended gear when they finally get full ascended and then complain that there’s nothing to do again? Or is it the people who were perfectly happy with the game as is and will leave or curtail their gem purchases? And bring the results of your research to your corporate bosses and make the best case you can.

It would seem, based on what she stated in the update the new armor types will be ’’required’’ to finish the high level content, otherwise, you won’t be able to mitigate the ’’agony’’?

If that’s the case…. Bleh.

Joiry.2504:

Notice how all the pro-Ascended gear threads (defined by their OP) are not getting merged into this thread, even though they are also basically “thoughts on ascended gear”

Classic “sweep it under the rug” tactics. Not surprising.

Apparently they only care about feedback if it’s from WoW fanboys that want to destroy the game by whining for gear treadmills.

Right now I dont have anything to do besides farming for legendary and some WvW. So I am happy with this new armor.

Diva.4706:

So it looks like ArenaNet is catering for the hardcore player base, and leaving the casuals as an “under geared” group of players.

What happened to None-Gated content ? What happened to being able to just play with my friends in ANY content. Is it true there will now be zones I can not play, because I haven’t farmed the right gear?

Gear checks???

ArenaNet, this is not what you said we would be playing.

Everything in this game caters to casuals, even obtaining legendaries. We hardcore PvE’ers can’t just have this one thing? Every single aspect has to be lovey-dovey and equal?

Am I to assume that all of the people that hate getting new gear so much are still in the gear they hit 80 in? Because if you complain about “being forced” to get new gear in order to stay on par, then you must have hated it then too. Right?

Nephaerius.9103:

Feycat.4370:

EverythingXen.1835:

Not enough to keep a game this size running, or this wouldnt be happening.

Really?

How is Anet making money on this?

Are they selling the Ascended Gear in the gem store?

Is the new gear grind going to magically make people pay a sub fee?

Is this making them more money than concentrating on developing new cosmetics for the store?

Go ahead. I’ll wait.

People playing longer have a longer opportunity to possibly spend money. Inevitably at least one more gem purchase will be made by a player that’s only continuing to play to get their Ascended gear. At the end of the day that’s all they care about. Also, 2 words, Transmutation Stones. Yeah that’s the money maker here when they add new gear.

Not if they don’t ADD ANYTHING NEW to the store.

Also? I have 85 transmutation stones in the bank right now, and 20 fines. Every single character of mine is wearing transmuted gear. I use those things like candy, and I get 3 every time I finish a zone.

Joiry.2504:

Notice how all the pro-Ascended gear threads (defined by their OP) are not getting merged into this thread, even though they are also basically “thoughts on ascended gear”

It seems like “pretend the fallout doesn’t exist” was a cheaper solution than “adapt our strategy to incorporate new feedback.”

Konde.8594:

Right now I dont have anything to do besides farming for legendary and some WvW. So I am happy with this new armor.

Would you not have been just as happy with all of this new content and new gear, only that the gear was the same power as current exotics?

Also, I hate to harp on this subject, but how many new things are going to be added to the game before the engineer’s deployable turrets trait gets fixed? How long until it gets fixed? A year? I hope it is finally fixed in this patch.

Just my personal gripe. I know there are other traits / skills that simply do not do what they say. That’s kind of the greater point that I’m hinting at, I guess. ; )

ChairGraveyard.2967:

Joiry.2504:

Notice how all the pro-Ascended gear threads (defined by their OP) are not getting merged into this thread, even though they are also basically “thoughts on ascended gear”

Classic “sweep it under the rug” tactics. Not surprising.

But having one huge 5k+ posts in the first page is far more intimidating than a couple 5 posts threads spread here and there.

@Konde,

Google 80 things to do at 80 and let me know how many on that list you have completed. I’m willing to bet you haven’t done 1/4 of the list.

There “ARE” things to do in the game.

camoflaugz.5031:

Nar.8327:

camoflaugz.5031:

krookie.6378:

camoflaugz.5031:

No I’m not trolling, but I shouldn’t say nothing is fun, that was wrong, I take that back. I would say at end game I need something to keep me going. This is an MMO, thats what MMO players look for at the end. If i didn’t want to do that I would just play a single player console game or something. As of now I don’t really log on that much because I’m waiting for the patch.

Speak for yourself. This is not what MMO players look for at the end. This is what you and those trained by WoW’s Skinner box look for at the end. Those of us who played UO and GW1 do not look for a gear grind at the end.

I played all MMO’s some for short time some for long. In the end the MMO that has more to do lasts and this has been proven by Millions of MMO players already. So I would say yes MMO players do look for this at the end. Whats the point of playing an MMO that has no progression? Its suppose to be built to last

No one’s complaining about having more to do. We’re complaining about being promised that this MMO would do it differently, where no one with more free time would have a statistical advantage over anyone else.

Maybe this is just targeted for the hardcore players? It seems to me that we have two different kinds of players. For the hardcore players which I seem to fall in that category now even though I don’t think I’m hardcore, we want to do things like that were your rewarded for your time. Im not really thinking of advantages over anybody Im only thinking of playing the game the way I enjoy it which is playing with a goal in mind.

The other group of players seem to just want to log in and do anything like jumping puzzles etc.. They can still do all those things.. but people like me and others that don’t post on here want something more than that. I play on Jade Quarry, when I log in theres tons of people in orr. There not there just to do it, there farming karma. The mass people in that area that are there on my server kinda show what they want.

I disagree. I would fall into the hardcore min/max crowd and I by no means want this to be implemented. My primary playstyle has always been mass PvP. From Anchorhead vs Bestine in SWG, to massive X-roads fights in WoW, to WvW in this game. I min/max because I want to give myself every edge possible when I play. I want to play in my chosen playstyle, as promised by Anet from square one, without having to grind dungeons.

Eveningstar.6940:

The real casualty is credibility. GW2 was designed on the passions of a development team with a very specific design philosophy: Buck the Trinity, make the game accessible for everyone, and toss out gear progression. Just like in GW1, gear was supposed to “stop” at Exotic and not inflate beyond that. You’d get your Exotics, and you were done gearing. Now you could do what you wanted. Now you were free. You were ready for all the content the game could throw at you. Gear should not be a gateway for more content. Gear should not be something you should keep up with.
That was the principle on which ArenaNet built its good will. That was the basis of the trust it cultivated between itself and its community.

Passion does not generate success, let alone profit. They have not lost any credibility with me because one of their design goals proved unachieveable, and are correcting their mistacke.

Ethics.4519:

Latinkuro.9420:

xeph.8410:

Latinkuro.9420:

Ascended gear is welcomed with open arms, people complain about gear hamster wheel but they do not see that ascended gear is just in between exotic and legendary, now if they add something like godly armor as higher than legendary THAT right there would be a gear hamster wheel.

It constantly amazes me how many people think that Legendary items are better than Exotics.

Your signature, by the way, is very apt.

Yes better as in they have more pleasing aesthetics and cool effects.

In his original post he never said legendary was better than exotic. However, I think we can all agree they are, and also were intended to be. There is a bonus to legendary, they have slightly higher stats than exotics, therefore are better.

They are supposed to look better as well. All he was referring to was the time it takes to gain these items when he said “between exotics and legendary”. Although bravo at the somewhat subtle attempt of picking off an irrelevant point (albeit incorrect)

No there’s not. Legendary and Exotic weapons have the exact same stats.

teaspoon.1357:

Am I to assume that all of the people that hate getting new gear so much are still in the gear they hit 80 in? Because if you complain about “being forced” to get new gear in order to stay on par, then you must have hated it then too. Right?

I’m not against getting gear. Heck I’m not even against the concept of slightly more difficult than Exotic gear to get even though it’s far mroe costly than it should to try multiple builds as it is currently.

What I’m against is “kick in the balls” effect where all the work I did to get the best available gear on the promise that it’d remain the best available forever was undone in a single patch and I’m left with some dead weight gear and no money.

The people are you pandering too, the ‘hardcore’ players. They are players who came from WoW, SWTOR, what have you. These are players who will leave the game to go play a different MMO regardless of what you add to the game. What you are doing right now is alienating your CORE fanbase. The people who have been waiting for this game for years. The people who want to play an MMO to have fun, not to continuously have to work on improving their gear.

Right now I have two level 80s with two sets of exotics each for 4 sets of armor. Before this patch I had planned on having 2 more 80s pretty soon (50 thief, 40 mesmer), and I had planned on getting another set of exotics for my main character because of another build I want to run for WvW. I have a legendary very close to being done (just waiting on Balthazar to not be bugged). Now I learn I have to completely regear my characters over the course of the game. I have to grind out these new rings and whatever you decide to add in the future. The backpieces alone will be hundreds of hours of grinding. And I learn if I want to have anymore 80’s I have to do the same thing all over on all of them. This is unacceptable.

I’ve logged hundreds of hours into this game and I don’t care about ‘character progression’. I just want to be able to play whatever character I want whenever I want with a full set of gear, just like I did for over half a decade in GW1. I have a Mesmer in GW1 that I’ve logged hundreds of hours on. He is using the same set of armor and weapons I obtained in 2005. I never had to change anything because he was perfect the way he was, I was satisfied with that. The only time I ever changed my other characters was to get the new skins for gear that I liked. I was always pretty happy with how hard or easy it was to get these things.

What you’ve introduced is going in the wrong direction. MMO’s do not need higher levels, more gear progression, and long grinds to keep players interested and having fun. You proved that with Guild Wars 1. You proved that with Guild Wars 2. The reason many more people are leaving this game is not due to the lack of gear progression but due to the massive number of bugs currently within the game.

• WvW culling is out of control. We want to be able to see our enemies and our allies. Not our allies and invisible enemies (or enemies and invisible allies when we die).

• Spvp lacks variety due to imbalanced builds and the lack of map variety. Everyone runs the same builds because all your maps have the same core function: capture points. Bring more map variety. Bring back the priests. Bring back flags (Capricorn would be great for this). Bring back relics. Introduce a MMO version of TF2’s payload. King of the hill. Anything! I assure you build variety won’t be as much of a problem when you start introducing different mechanics than just ‘capture this point’.

• And hundreds of bugs plague skills and traits of all professions. I haven’t been able to run the build I want to on my Necromancer for months because the traits for it don’t work and a couple of my skills don’t do what they clearly say in the tooltip.

These are the reasons players are leaving your game. The gear progression junkies will play gear progression games that already exist. You can’t entice them with 1-2 pieces of stronger gear every couple months.

I too am happy with new armor tiers, I don’t see how people are getting so bent out of shape for, seriously yes you will have to likely transmute into your armor, its YOUR choice to spend money in a cash shop, or just do your dailies….or heck even start another toon and just complete a few maps, I have something like 50 transmutation stones from just normal progression….no one is twisting your arm to spend money on cash shop its you that choose to be lazy and make the purchase.

Wonder how many of us about this time last year geared up to play SWTOR?

Wonder how many of us are still playing that game today? It maybe lasted what, 2 months? Heck, 3 is being generous. Then what happened? Servers turned into ghost towns. One after another after another. Most people moved to Fat Man just to find groups and/or active pvp.

Today the game is free to play and still dead – new patch or not. Nothing is going to save that sinking ship and even the rats are bailing. The only difference here is that it was already free to play. Having said that, they do have things in common.

Patches and bugs. If I was sitting in the development chair I would honestly think twice about Friday’s release. What is the long term goal and if I release this what will the ripple effects do?

There is nothing gained by releasing it on Friday. No money is at stake. However:

There is everything to lose.

teaspoon.1357:

Diva.4706:

So it looks like ArenaNet is catering for the hardcore player base, and leaving the casuals as an “under geared” group of players.

What happened to None-Gated content ? What happened to being able to just play with my friends in ANY content. Is it true there will now be zones I can not play, because I haven’t farmed the right gear?

Gear checks???

ArenaNet, this is not what you said we would be playing.

Everything in this game caters to casuals, even obtaining legendaries. We hardcore PvE’ers can’t just have this one thing? Every single aspect has to be lovey-dovey and equal?

Am I to assume that all of the people that hate getting new gear so much are still in the gear they hit 80 in? Because if you complain about “being forced” to get new gear in order to stay on par, then you must have hated it then too. Right?

And after you get “this one thing”, will you be satisfied? Will you sigh a heavy breath of relief and say… “yea, that’s the one… that’s the tier of gear I needed to make my character truly feel complete”?

Or, will instead you say “that was great, what’s NEXT? when is the new tier of gear coming out? there’s NOTHING for us to do!”?

Feycat.4370:

Nephaerius.9103:

Feycat.4370:

EverythingXen.1835:

Not enough to keep a game this size running, or this wouldnt be happening.

Really?

How is Anet making money on this?

Are they selling the Ascended Gear in the gem store?

Is the new gear grind going to magically make people pay a sub fee?

Is this making them more money than concentrating on developing new cosmetics for the store?

Go ahead. I’ll wait.

People playing longer have a longer opportunity to possibly spend money. Inevitably at least one more gem purchase will be made by a player that’s only continuing to play to get their Ascended gear. At the end of the day that’s all they care about. Also, 2 words, Transmutation Stones. Yeah that’s the money maker here when they add new gear.

Not if they don’t ADD ANYTHING NEW to the store.

Also? I have 85 transmutation stones in the bank right now, and 20 fines. Every single character of mine is wearing transmuted gear. I use those things like candy, and I get 3 every time I finish a zone.

Lucky for you. It sounds like you like anecdotal evidence. So personally I have about 5 transmutation stones and I have 2 80’s and 4 25ish characters. What’s that say for the drop rate? The fact is it’s probably somewhere in the middle. The majority of players probably don’t have them like “candy” like you or the dearth of them that I have. Regardless of whether anything is added, maybe a player is getting bored grinding ascended, they already have 4 other toons some 80 some not maybe, but hey they decide to try a new profession and buy a character slot. Well there’s $10 that would have never been spent (possibly) if that player had just moved on. Same can be said for bank space, other cosmetics, etc. Simply by keeping a player around playing the game you are going to increase the likelihood that they make a purchase. You don’t just hang out in Sams Club all day and eat the free samples, inevitably the majority of people buy something.

Also, yes you do get them for map completion, but this goes back to forcing activities on a player that they may not want to engage in. Solution to avoid map completion if you find it boring and need Stones, BUY THEM!

Fayte.1803:

I too am happy with new armor tiers, I don’t see how people are getting so bent out of shape for, seriously yes you will have to likely transmute into your armor, its YOUR choice to spend money in a cash shop, or just do your dailies….or heck even start another toon and just complete a few maps, I have something like 50 transmutation stones from just normal progression….no one is twisting your arm to spend money on cash shop its you that choose to be lazy and make the purchase.

Nobody complains about having to transmute…we complain about the powercreep.

stof.9341:

teaspoon.1357:

Am I to assume that all of the people that hate getting new gear so much are still in the gear they hit 80 in? Because if you complain about “being forced” to get new gear in order to stay on par, then you must have hated it then too. Right?

I’m not against getting gear. Heck I’m not even against the concept of slightly more difficult than Exotic gear to get even though it’s far mroe costly than it should to try multiple builds as it is currently.

What I’m against is “kick in the balls” effect where all the work I did to get the best available gear on the promise that it’d remain the best available forever was undone in a single patch and I’m left with some dead weight gear and no money.

That’s the thing though, the “best available gear” today isn’t always the “best available gear” tomorrow. Even if it’s just different stats on armor being introduced. If you wanted a set with Power/HP/Condition rather than the set you currently have of Power/HP/Toughness you would still have to get new gear when it came out.

Eveningstar.6940:

…
The real casualty is credibility. GW2 was designed on the passions of a development team with a very specific design philosophy.
…
Gear should not be something you should keep up with.
That was the principle on which ArenaNet built its good will. That was the basis of the trust it cultivated between itself and its community.
…
ANet hasn’t lost my subscription because there wasn’t one to begin with. They haven’t lost my interest because I still love the game they’ve created. What they have lost is my good will, and that’s not something I give lightly, and it’s also not something anyone else values except me.

QFT

Except, I WILL be voting with my wallet. I will keep exploring; keep playing alts; keep having a good time. After all, the gameplay is fun, and there’s no subscription so it’s free to me. But I’ve lost all incentive to achieve anything. I’ve lost all desire to purchase any content with real $ ever again. This will no longer be my “home” MMO, and I won’t be investing in it.

Sky.9347:

teaspoon.1357:

Diva.4706:

So it looks like ArenaNet is catering for the hardcore player base, and leaving the casuals as an “under geared” group of players.

What happened to None-Gated content ? What happened to being able to just play with my friends in ANY content. Is it true there will now be zones I can not play, because I haven’t farmed the right gear?

Gear checks???

ArenaNet, this is not what you said we would be playing.

Everything in this game caters to casuals, even obtaining legendaries. We hardcore PvE’ers can’t just have this one thing? Every single aspect has to be lovey-dovey and equal?

Am I to assume that all of the people that hate getting new gear so much are still in the gear they hit 80 in? Because if you complain about “being forced” to get new gear in order to stay on par, then you must have hated it then too. Right?

And after you get “this one thing”, will you be satisfied? Will you sigh a heavy breath of relief and say… “yea, that’s the one… that’s the tier of gear I needed to make my character truly feel complete”?

Or, will instead you say “that was great, what’s NEXT? when is the new tier of gear coming out? there’s NOTHING for us to do!”?

This. This type of player will never be happy with just one new tier of gear. They’ll be clamoring for new tiers every single week, claiming there’s “nothing” to do after acquiring the latest tier.

It’s a completely unsustainable model and can easily ruin an MMO with insane power creep.

To all the people that supposedly want this: WoW exists. Go play it. It does the lame gear treadmill lazy garbage game design thing much better anyway. Leave GW2 alone.

EverythingXen.1835:

krookie.6378:

EverythingXen.1835:

I didnt say it wasnt a lot of people. I said it wasnt enough.

I agree the lack of anything worthwhile on the cash shop isnt helping.

The gear progression is a temporary fix though. They may get an influx of new players from WoW but those players tend to go back when they finished devouring the content. I mean there is a reason why no other game is able to compete with WoW. If they offer the same type of game play as the original, people would try it and then go back. The original is always better.

A more fleshed out cash shop could solve any financial issues. This solution only really serves to alienate people who love GW2 specifically because it’s not a gear treadmill.

They may tend to go back, but some may stay. You need BOTH communities. The “no treadmills” arent financially viable, and as you said, the “treadmills” have other options when they feel like their time is wasted in GW2. The “treadmills” need to feel like their time isnt wasted. They arent mutally exclusive unless you want them to be.

Also, gear treadmill != gameplay. Just adding another teir of gear does not, in any way, make GW2 play like WoW.

The treadmills exist in other MMO to keep people playing and paying the subscription fees. There is no financial viability for a gear treadmill when there are no subscription fees. GW2 needs people to spend money on the cash shop and a gear grind does nothing to help with that.

You cannot possibly cater to every single gamer. Especially when the communities in question are polar opposites. You cannot cater to gear grinders and those who don’t want a gear grind. It’s just impossible. Both communities want completely different things. In other words, you either create the game for one or the other, not for both.

Loosifah.4739:

That’s the thing though, the “best available gear” today isn’t always the “best available gear” tomorrow. Even if it’s just different stats on armor being introduced. If you wanted a set with Power/HP/Condition rather than the set you currently have of Power/HP/Toughness you would still have to get new gear when it came out.

If the meta changes, it changes. It doesn’t make the other gear subpart because the meta will change again and again and might very well pass again by the stuff I already saved.

If the new stuff is exotic+1, there’s no way the exotic+0 will ever become good unless the meta calls for having lower than maximum possible stats which can be done easily by forgetting to put your armor on anyway.