Guild Wars 2

Ethics.4519:

In his original post he never said legendary was better than exotic. However, I think we can all agree they are, and also were intended to be. There is a bonus to legendary, they have slightly higher stats than exotics, therefore are better.

I don’t know what point you’re trying to make, but no, legendaries currently have the same stats as exotics, they are not better. They were intended to only be cosmetically appealing, but looks are very subjective. There are plenty of players that don’t want a rainbow staff for their necromancer, or a unicorn shortbow for their thief.

gnash.7584:

My thoughts?
This: http://extra-credits.net/episodes/power-creep/

That was amazing. I’m surprised I’ve never seen them before. Thanks for posting that.

chuiu.4985:

The people are you pandering too, the ‘hardcore’ players. They are players who came from WoW, SWTOR, what have you. These are players who will leave the game to go play a different MMO regardless of what you add to the game. What you are doing right now is alienating your CORE fanbase. The people who have been waiting for this game for years. The people who want to play an MMO to have fun, not to continuously have to work on improving their gear.

Right now I have two level 80s with two sets of exotics each for 4 sets of armor. Before this patch I had planned on having 2 more 80s pretty soon (50 thief, 40 mesmer), and I had planned on getting another set of exotics for my main character because of another build I want to run for WvW. I have a legendary very close to being done (just waiting on Balthazar to not be bugged). Now I learn I have to completely regear my characters over the course of the game. I have to grind out these new rings and whatever you decide to add in the future. The backpieces alone will be hundreds of hours of grinding. And I learn if I want to have anymore 80’s I have to do the same thing all over on all of them. This is unacceptable.

I’ve logged hundreds of hours into this game and I don’t care about ‘character progression’. I just want to be able to play whatever character I want whenever I want with a full set of gear, just like I did for over half a decade in GW1. I have a Mesmer in GW1 that I’ve logged hundreds of hours on. He is using the same set of armor and weapons I obtained in 2005. I never had to change anything because he was perfect the way he was, I was satisfied with that. The only time I ever changed my other characters was to get the new skins for gear that I liked. I was always pretty happy with how hard or easy it was to get these things.

What you’ve introduced is going in the wrong direction. MMO’s do not need higher levels, more gear progression, and long grinds to keep players interested and having fun. You proved that with Guild Wars 1. You proved that with Guild Wars 2. The reason many more people are leaving this game is not due to the lack of gear progression but due to the massive number of bugs currently within the game.

• WvW culling is out of control. We want to be able to see our enemies and our allies. Not our allies and invisible enemies (or enemies and invisible allies when we die).

• Spvp lacks variety due to imbalanced builds and the lack of map variety. Everyone runs the same builds because all your maps have the same core function: capture points. Bring more map variety. Bring back the priests. Bring back flags (Capricorn would be great for this). Bring back relics. Introduce a MMO version of TF2’s payload. King of the hill. Anything! I assure you build variety won’t be as much of a problem when you start introducing different mechanics than just ‘capture this point’.

• And hundreds of bugs plague skills and traits of all professions. I haven’t been able to run the build I want to on my Necromancer for months because the traits for it don’t work and a couple of my skills don’t do what they clearly say in the tooltip.

These are the reasons players are leaving your game. The gear progression junkies will play gear progression games that already exist. You can’t entice them with 1-2 pieces of stronger gear every couple months.

This is not true at all, Players stay when there is more to do and that is a fact. Where is guildwars 1 today and where is the other game at? The truth is the other game has been strong forever and they were both released close to the same time. What you want is to make this game for only guildwars 1 players, maybe Anet wants it to be more than that.

Ethics.4519:

In his original post he never said legendary was better than exotic. However, I think we can all agree they are, and also were intended to be. There is a bonus to legendary, they have slightly higher stats than exotics, therefore are better.

They are supposed to look better as well. All he was referring to was the time it takes to gain these items when he said “between exotics and legendary”. Although bravo at the somewhat subtle attempt of picking off an irrelevant point (albeit incorrect)

Sorry if I’m not understanding you correctly but in the current state of GW2, Legendary weapons have exactly the same stat allocation as Exotics.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Twilight
995–1100
+179 Power
+128 Toughness
+128 Vitality

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/13701
Weapon Strength: 995 – 1100
+128 Power
+128 Precision
+179 Toughness

Same 995-1100 damage, same +179 dominant stat, same +128 secondary stats. I’d have linked to the Invaders Greatsword which has identical dominant and secondary stats but couldn’t find it on either site. It’s at the Weapon Trader in WvW if you don’t believe me.

Of course this won’t be the case once the ascended tier adjustment is made.

Loosifah.4739:

stof.9341:

teaspoon.1357:

Am I to assume that all of the people that hate getting new gear so much are still in the gear they hit 80 in? Because if you complain about “being forced” to get new gear in order to stay on par, then you must have hated it then too. Right?

I’m not against getting gear. Heck I’m not even against the concept of slightly more difficult than Exotic gear to get even though it’s far mroe costly than it should to try multiple builds as it is currently.

What I’m against is “kick in the balls” effect where all the work I did to get the best available gear on the promise that it’d remain the best available forever was undone in a single patch and I’m left with some dead weight gear and no money.

That’s the thing though, the “best available gear” today isn’t always the “best available gear” tomorrow. Even if it’s just different stats on armor being introduced. If you wanted a set with Power/HP/Condition rather than the set you currently have of Power/HP/Toughness you would still have to get new gear when it came out.

New stat distributions wouldn´t force you to upgrade your gear.
Your old gear would be just as effective, not worse than anythingnew, just different.

Having different stats on gear would make new builds viable though, and therefore add more gameplay.

I think this news is awesome! Really looking forward to the new content and gear.

Well to be honest maybe they are trying to appease the people who are you know….not that skillful at the game? Maybe the edge is a way for them to play on even footing with others, and of course to those that are already quite skillful your kitten rating will go up and WvW and pvp will get that more challenging…..now heres hoping they don’t screw up the class fixes..

One other thing, eventually when full ascended armor is introduced it will make exotic dungeon/crafted armor obsolete, this is a big concern. Maybe when they add full ascended armor gear they should also rework all dungeons to include agony mechanics.

To finally find a game that I really enjoy playing that has (had) no gear grind at all made me very excited. I’ve quit playing all other games in fact. Now after reading this I feel let down yet again. It’s a shame there are no companies out there anymore who will stand by what they advertise and design despite the inevitable vocal minority which plagues every game. I’m disappointed and realize I may have to set out on my search again for a game that is simply fun to play for the sake of playing it. You know, how games were originally meant to be. I go to work every day. I don’t want to come home and “work” on getting some set of gear just so I won’t be discriminated against. I understand that gear grinds are “fun” for a lot of people but those people need to understand that its not for many others.

I hope this doesn’t turn out to be what it looks like but if it is I guess I’ll jump back into the search for a game that I enjoy playing without the gear grind (and holy trinity). Read and reflect on this reaction Anet. Don’t do this…

Latinkuro.9420:

One other thing, eventually when full ascended armor is introduced it will make exotic dungeon/crafted armor obsolete, this is a big concern. Maybe when they add full ascended armor gear they should also rework all dungeons to include agony mechanics.

Why is it a problem, when all gear can be transmuted? As I see it, even now, dungeons are just skin collecting. I have my exotics already, then it’s just a matter of collecting the skins and stat distributions that I’m after.

Latinkuro.9420:

One other thing, eventually when full ascended armor is introduced it will make exotic dungeon/crafted armor obsolete, this is a big concern. Maybe when they add full ascended armor gear they should also rework all dungeons to include agony mechanics.

So that we have even MORE gated content? No thanks!

Apparently Anet’s original “manifesto” was willfully disingenuous.

I hit 80, I got my money’s worth to be sure but I wont continue playing now.

Hawken.7932:

Latinkuro.9420:

One other thing, eventually when full ascended armor is introduced it will make exotic dungeon/crafted armor obsolete, this is a big concern. Maybe when they add full ascended armor gear they should also rework all dungeons to include agony mechanics.

Why is it a problem, when all gear can be transmuted? As I see it, even now, dungeons are just skin collecting. I have my exotics already, then it’s just a matter of collecting the skins and stat distributions that I’m after.

Dungeons offered way to gain those stat distributions, one way of getting max level gear.

Now enter ascended gear, nobody can just do dungeon and get gear they want, they need to do new dungeon to get the stats and old dungeons to get the looks.

Maybe this is just their way to get people to run the dungeons? I know for a fact 50% of you haven’t done every dungeon.

ChairGraveyard.2967:

Sky.9347:

teaspoon.1357:

Diva.4706:

So it looks like ArenaNet is catering for the hardcore player base, and leaving the casuals as an “under geared” group of players.

What happened to None-Gated content ? What happened to being able to just play with my friends in ANY content. Is it true there will now be zones I can not play, because I haven’t farmed the right gear?

Gear checks???

ArenaNet, this is not what you said we would be playing.

Everything in this game caters to casuals, even obtaining legendaries. We hardcore PvE’ers can’t just have this one thing? Every single aspect has to be lovey-dovey and equal?

Am I to assume that all of the people that hate getting new gear so much are still in the gear they hit 80 in? Because if you complain about “being forced” to get new gear in order to stay on par, then you must have hated it then too. Right?

And after you get “this one thing”, will you be satisfied? Will you sigh a heavy breath of relief and say… “yea, that’s the one… that’s the tier of gear I needed to make my character truly feel complete”?

Or, will instead you say “that was great, what’s NEXT? when is the new tier of gear coming out? there’s NOTHING for us to do!”?

This. This type of player will never be happy with just one new tier of gear. They’ll be clamoring for new tiers every single week, claiming there’s “nothing” to do after acquiring the latest tier.

It’s a completely unsustainable model and can easily ruin an MMO with insane power creep.

They’re catering to the people who didn’t play Guild Wars 1.

[old news]
Also, I like how they used “character progression” as a buzzword to describe their decision for non-accountwide dyes in a similar way to describe their inclusion of Infused gear. Basically, “character progression” is now red alert for “Uh oh, what are they going to do now?” Quite sad, eh?

the fact is a net said this would b a cosmetic game and if its not then large playerbase will leave and up and comers will have no help lvling u need people there u need players with you at all times of the game basicly to get events and pre events done no joke i tryed to do stuff alone in this game and everyone to busy farming glitched events to even care to unlock dungeons and everything get daily chests when chest dont produce better drops then farming mobs do thats sad. But YES new cosmetic gear is a great thing new maps great thing new stats the dont over power WVW great thing .

teaspoon.1357:

Diva.4706:

So it looks like ArenaNet is catering for the hardcore player base, and leaving the casuals as an “under geared” group of players.

What happened to None-Gated content ? What happened to being able to just play with my friends in ANY content. Is it true there will now be zones I can not play, because I haven’t farmed the right gear?

Gear checks???

ArenaNet, this is not what you said we would be playing.

Everything in this game caters to casuals, even obtaining legendaries. We hardcore PvE’ers can’t just have this one thing? Every single aspect has to be lovey-dovey and equal?

Am I to assume that all of the people that hate getting new gear so much are still in the gear they hit 80 in? Because if you complain about “being forced” to get new gear in order to stay on par, then you must have hated it then too. Right?

And we can’t have one game that doesn’t bend over to the “hardcore”?
You have options – we don’t..not anymore.

Shuguard.7125:

Well ladies and gents i have an idea as to how this is going to work in the future. Keep in mind this is an educated guess as to how the new gear will work without breaking the manifesto.

-snip-

There will be no treadmill, and there will be no over-reacting to a lack of information provided by anet. When in doubt do as the moas do, squawk and look adorable.

Except we don’t know that that will be the case. Like Weapons and Armor, existing jewelry has a slot, usually filled by a gem which provides the same stats as the item. The way the sample ring was depicted showed two blocks for each stat, one slightly larger than the exotic item’s base stats, the other slightly larger than the gem. There was also an infusion slot. We have no evidence yet as to whether armor and weapons will still have a rune/sigil slot, have a second set of stats similar to its base stats or some different mechanic. Also, we don’t know that Ascended Weapons will have infusion slots, or if just armor/accessories will.

Really 2 items as of now. A month later another. You guys really can’t get 2 items in a month? And before you blah blah blah hardly a gear treadmill. You can still do the dungeon it will just be harder the farther you go in.

Lets throw wow around. You can’t even enter dungeons without the right gear level.

So I think a month 2 get 2 items is easy. Someone said December adds another OMG another month to get 1 items.

I think the game needs it.

Why not just make gear with two upgrade slots? One regular, one infusion? That way, there’s no power gap and no change in current gearing strategies. It’s so incredibly simple, it’s stunning.

They didn’t do that though. That’s what worries. If they didn’t go for the simple solution that makes the most minimal changes, there must be larger plans at work. And based on the wording of the blog, they appear to be treadmill type plans. That’s bad.

Wow, a new gear grind treadmill progression for PVE. I could have sworn this was promised not to happen and one of the main selling points for me. The only question I have is can I get a refund on this game now?

Chamone.6890:

This is what you get for not shouting down every single “WAH WAH I WANT GEAR PROGRESSION AT ENDGAME” post that was posted on the forum over the past 8 weeks.

They are seeing those, seeing nobody disagree with them, and assuming that is public opinion.

It’s pretty clear from everyone’s responses here that we DONT want gear grind.

Well that’s great, I don’t want it either, but we have to speak up against people asking for it in the forums and elsewhere otherwise Anet will give them it.

Play the game, enjoy it, but for god’s sake log on to the forums once in a while to say that you like it the way it is and please don’t change it. If you don’t, stuff like this happens because the vocal minority have a powerful voice.

One romp through the zones of the game and it will tell you this is what the players want. I don’t know what the people that are complaining about this are doing. But, if it’s Plixx you are all hypocrites. Of course, that is what I’m doing, because there is no one else doing anything else, period (to a significant or consistent degree)

Venn.8931:

Mythilas.7325:

I don’t feel anywhere near the hatred for this move that some of you are displaying, but I do have some reservations about it.

From today’s post by Murdock:

“By adding challenging new combat mechanics to end-game content and ways to mitigate those mechanics through gear progression for high-end players, we can add personal progression without making the game feel like an endless treadmill of gear that is just out of your reach.”

Doesn’t the above statement seem a little contradictory? Even reading it in context, it doesn’t make sense to me. You create new mechanics that can only be dealt with by “gear progression” and then say that this creates a sense of personal progression without creating a gear treadmill. O_o

Am I missing something?

Nope. You’re pretty much just as befuddled as the other 105 pages full of posters.

It will feel so easy to get a legendary now that you have more stuff to grind first.

Someone quote the exact words in this manifesto with a link stating no small gear grinds. Which this is.

I couldn’t find it in there. And people who do lf(insertwhateverhere) are elitist and need to go away.

Reevac.1748:

Really 2 items as of now. A month later another. You guys really can’t get 2 items in a month? And before you blah blah blah hardly a gear treadmill. You can still do the dungeon it will just be harder the farther you go in.

I haven’t done a single dungeon in the game. Since the devs explicitly stated that I could get max gear without running a dungeon, I didn’t have an issue with purchasing this game — its what actually led me to become interested in it several years ago.

Me and many others have no interest in having the ‘top’ gear come from a dungeon.

Ironangel.1548:

How many pages will it take for a response? 110 or 420?

Bad idea is bad.

Its called riding out the storm, they are basically getting a compiling of peoples complaints, ie they are only hearing "I don’t like this idea, they are not staying true to the manifesto, I want this….I want that blah blah, Honestly you make it sound like the community has any say in the matter. People can moan and complain….kick and scream all they want until they are blue in the face, but the bottom line is most if not all will log in the next day when content is released. The “Im gonna quit” scare tactic that people try to use to give them some sense of accomplishment doesn’t work on anet, they got your money, your basically just hanging on for the ride. And after this weekend they are gonna attract a whole new fanbase with the annoucement of the higher stat tier armor.

Chasan.3521:

Loosifah.4739:

Maybe this is just their way to get people to run the dungeons? I know for a fact 50% of you haven’t done every dungeon.

And there is a reason some of us havent, we dont like them

If you don’t like them, then don’t do the new one?

Strang.8170:

Hawken.7932:

Latinkuro.9420:

One other thing, eventually when full ascended armor is introduced it will make exotic dungeon/crafted armor obsolete, this is a big concern. Maybe when they add full ascended armor gear they should also rework all dungeons to include agony mechanics.

Why is it a problem, when all gear can be transmuted? As I see it, even now, dungeons are just skin collecting. I have my exotics already, then it’s just a matter of collecting the skins and stat distributions that I’m after.

Dungeons offered way to gain those stat distributions, one way of getting max level gear.

Now enter ascended gear, nobody can just do dungeon and get gear they want, they need to do new dungeon to get the stats and old dungeons to get the looks.

“Need to do” — I don’t see the problem here. All the content is fun, so I think I’d re-phrase that as “Get to do”, or “Have incentive to do”.

While the small group of people are crying on the forums the rest are playing and farming in ORR. Were farming for gear already so this is GREAT NEWS for us. Come see the truth for yourself @ Jade Quarry in ORR.

Eveningstar.6940:

The real casualty from this debate is not going to be measured in departing players. It will not be measured in a change in the atmosphere of the forum, and it will not be measured by the collective angst of the community.

I’m not going to slide down a slippery slope of anxiety and decry Guild Wars 2 as somehow ruined, or predict the game becoming a staid clone of Warcraft two years down the road. I think that’s a gross exaggeration of the circumstances based on very little evidence.

I won’t get into a shouting match by taking sides in the perennial Casual v Hardcore debate. That’s a facetious fight and one that won’t ever end, and decrying Casuals for ruining the game with their whining or Hardcore players for ruining the game with their demands just blatantly misses the point.

I don’t care about the gear grind, or Ascended gear. So you have a new tier of gear with an Infusion mechanic about as innovative as Fire Resist/Nature Resist or Radiance. Great. Fine, whatever. I’m still going to play this game. I’m still going to participate in the Guardian community. I’m still going to level my alts. I’m still going to participate in seasonal events.

The real casualty here isn’t my money (I’m not spending any anyway, besides the occasional purchase on the Gem Store). The real casualty here is good will.

The real casualty is credibility. GW2 was designed on the passions of a development team with a very specific design philosophy: Buck the Trinity, make the game accessible for everyone, and toss out gear progression. Just like in GW1, gear was supposed to “stop” at Exotic and not inflate beyond that. You’d get your Exotics, and you were done gearing. Now you could do what you wanted. Now you were free. You were ready for all the content the game could throw at you. Gear should not be a gateway for more content. Gear should not be something you should keep up with.
That was the principle on which ArenaNet built its good will. That was the basis of the trust it cultivated between itself and its community.

Credibility is a form of capital: hard to define, hard to measure, hard to build, and very easy to lose.
I’m still going to play this game. I’m still going to level alts, explore the world, collect exotics and try new builds. But I’m a lot less enthusiastic about the game today than I was last week. And I’m far, far less likely to trust ArenaNet in the future. I’m not leaving; I’m not voting with my feet or my wallet.

ANet hasn’t lost my subscription because there wasn’t one to begin with. They haven’t lost my interest because I still love the game they’ve created. What they have lost is my good will, and that’s not something I give lightly, and it’s also not something anyone else values except me.

But it is what it is.

Well said, Eveningstar.

I still can’t believe the news.
I don’t know how often I’ve watched the GW2 dev panels, tears in my eyes, adoring the people that dared to change the tiring MMO formula, and above all make a truly social game. Then I played the beta, and surprise, everything they said was true.

Now…
I feel totally let down.
The devs seemed so smart, sincere, just very likable…
Something is seriously wrong.

Oh well, RL goes on
but what a pity.

I haven’t done a single dungeon and have no intention of doing so unless either my family member that I bought the game for decides to actually play and wants to do them or a dungeon finder on par with WoW’s is implemented. It’s not so much dungeons I hate, it’s the hassle of trying to get a group.

Even so, I don’t see myself running the same dungeon over and over for gear ever. That got old real fast in WoW, and they even had more dungeons!

Make this gear available from badges that can be earned in a comparable period of time that dungeon runners earn it or implement the same gear system in WvW that you have in sPvP and I will quit griping.

When they the add new armour set it should lose all stats outside of the new dungeon…and turn into a bright pink kitten suit.

Valento.9852:

This is just kittening annoying stupid plain whinning, they don’t have to answer you, they’ll just release the content and you will have to deal with.
S-i-m-p-l-e.

We will talk again when they one day will do things to the game YOU don’t agree with. I am highly curious if you won’t come back here and tell them how displeased you are. Oh wait – I forgot, if a hardcore player does that, it’s not called “whining”, in that case it’s “constructive criticism”, right?

tetsuo.7318:

So the ppl who played TOEE or Keep on the Borderlands or any other D&D module and got their +1 or +2 magical weapons to beat the harder enemys where crack addicrs too?
This isnt just an MMO its an MMORPG, Character and Item progression where always a part of RPGs if you dont like that maybe you should ask yourself if RPGs are even the genre you like.

Did you spend 1000+ hrs to get your +2 TOEE sword? Did you have to play it and skip out on life just so you could hold that sword and not be left behind by your peers? How exactly do you equate the two?

Loosifah.4739:

Maybe this is just their way to get people to run the dungeons? I know for a fact 50% of you haven’t done every dungeon.

Maybe that’s because many of us bloody hate dungeons and don’t want to do them.

Aaron.4807:

Loosifah.4739:

Maybe they just don’t feel like being attacked personally for actually stepping up and saying something? As has been the case repeatedly in this thread and others.

The dungeons? Ascnded gear comes from ONE DUNGEON MAN! All the other dungeons will be ghost towns! What is so hard to understand about why this sucks for the people that actually bought into Anets now defunct “vision”?

Furthermore, the current dungeons aren’t even optimized as they should be. As it stands, it’s just “Oh, hey. Players aren’t playing it the way I want them to, so I’ll just not fix the reason why people aren’t running that path and just make it even more tedious to go through.”

Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.

So they’re going to introduce one of the major MMO issues they wanted to address. Talk about laziness. Not really sure what they hope this will solve. There’s no trinity barrier, no large group barrier, and no lockouts. If this content is not completely grind ridden the players they are looking to attract will rip through this in days get bored, complain and leave. Again. The rest of us get stuck with an MMO with an inferior PVE endgame and the removal of one of the key things making this title stand out.

There have been a lot of complaints (as with EVERY MMO launch) about there being an unfocused endgame, but there are so many better solutions to the problems. Larger group sizes, skill focused content, difficulty settings and timed runs are some of these. Rewards can range from cosmetic gear skins, cosmetic spell effects, new elite skills, detailed itemization. Really it comes down to focusing on the content and making that entertaining and challenging.

So much of this conversation has revolved around “hardcore vs casual” but anyone who has spent any time seriously raiding will tell you they don’t need stat inflation to keep the long term content compelling. Well designed encounters that take coordination, interesting choices in itemization, mechanics that get fixed when they are cheesed and glory for “knowing your class” are what make an endgame. Here we get are getting the worst of both worlds.

- “Hardcore PVEer” does not exclusively represent a preference for a vertical progression “end-game” grind. A gamer with such a preference is a linear gamer. Does the preference require commitment? Sure. Is it the only thing that does? No. It is entirely possible to be deeply invested in a game—hardcore--without having any desire at all for a “gear grind”.

- There are many games already catering to this linear preference. The market is over-saturated with them.

- There are a host of indicators that suggest rather strongly that this preference is not as widespread has some people in this thread continue to assert. Especially in the American market. So, no, it is not necessary to cater to it.

- Catering to this preference could very well be a detriment to this particular title, as its developers made it pretty clear that they wouldn’t be doing that. There has already been a lot of bad will generated just at the hint of an about-face on this point.

- There are many proven ways to get players to invest in a title. Gear progression is only one, it is not universal, and it has a significant downside in terms of the negativity in generates in the community. Also, as there is no subscription fee to be worried about here, it makes such a system even less attractive as an option to obtain said investment.

- With all the options available to pursue, ANet has chosen this one after only a few months out. Yes, that does say something about the studio’s priorities and trajectory, regardless of how trivial this initial offering may be.

- Distributors are fully capable of making bad decisions. Of late, bad decisions have been a running theme in the industry. Just because a company decides X does not automatically mean X is good for the bottom line.

- If this change of course is so widely desired and so financially critical, we should see a very noticeable and persistent rise in population in the coming weeks and months.

I don’t think that’s going to happen.

Rhyse.8176:

Why not just make gear with two upgrade slots? One regular, one infusion? That way, there’s no power gap and no change in current gearing strategies. It’s so incredibly simple, it’s stunning.

They didn’t do that though. That’s what worries. If they didn’t go for the simple solution that makes the most minimal changes, there must be larger plans at work. And based on the wording of the blog, they appear to be treadmill type plans. That’s bad.

^This. It astounds me that that didn’t go this route. Keep it at exotic level and all exotics and rares would have a 2nd slot which can only be used for this Agony resistance upgrade.

Instead they simply cater to the gear treadmill. To those that think this is the end of the treadmill you are wrong. Once this dungeon gets finished by the hard cores they will create a new one with additional upticks. It’s the way to keep them happy. It’s False Endgame. Instead of making engaging content just put in uptick stats on weapons.

It’s plain and simply cheap alternative to quality gameplay.

camoflaugz.5031:

While the small group of people are crying on the forums the rest are playing and farming in ORR. Were farming for gear already so this is GREAT NEWS for us. Come see the truth for yourself @ Jade Quarry in ORR.

Yeah, hope you don’t get caught in a bot sweep. I don’t think I want to risk going into Orr right now. But good luck to you, grind on, grind on, oh brave MMO soldier, grind on!

Hawken.7932:

Strang.8170:

Hawken.7932:

Latinkuro.9420:

One other thing, eventually when full ascended armor is introduced it will make exotic dungeon/crafted armor obsolete, this is a big concern. Maybe when they add full ascended armor gear they should also rework all dungeons to include agony mechanics.

Why is it a problem, when all gear can be transmuted? As I see it, even now, dungeons are just skin collecting. I have my exotics already, then it’s just a matter of collecting the skins and stat distributions that I’m after.

Dungeons offered way to gain those stat distributions, one way of getting max level gear.

Now enter ascended gear, nobody can just do dungeon and get gear they want, they need to do new dungeon to get the stats and old dungeons to get the looks.

“Need to do” — I don’t see the problem here. All the content is fun, so I think I’d re-phrase that as “Get to do”, or “Have incentive to do”.

Did you see the amount of advertisement on how we could play the game how we wanted, how game wouldn´t revolve around getting better gear and how all of the game was supposed to be end game.
Now they introduce one single way of getting maximum stats, and which from the looks of it seems to be gated behind a gear progression treadmill….

Content being fun was incentive enough, getting better looks was fun and incentive enough. Content they released on halloween update was fun and we got to do it.
Doing content just because it´s only thing you can get maximum stats is needing to do the content.

krookie.6378:

EverythingXen.1835:

krookie.6378:

EverythingXen.1835:

I didnt say it wasnt a lot of people. I said it wasnt enough.

I agree the lack of anything worthwhile on the cash shop isnt helping.

The gear progression is a temporary fix though. They may get an influx of new players from WoW but those players tend to go back when they finished devouring the content. I mean there is a reason why no other game is able to compete with WoW. If they offer the same type of game play as the original, people would try it and then go back. The original is always better.

A more fleshed out cash shop could solve any financial issues. This solution only really serves to alienate people who love GW2 specifically because it’s not a gear treadmill.

They may tend to go back, but some may stay. You need BOTH communities. The “no treadmills” arent financially viable, and as you said, the “treadmills” have other options when they feel like their time is wasted in GW2. The “treadmills” need to feel like their time isnt wasted. They arent mutally exclusive unless you want them to be.

Also, gear treadmill != gameplay. Just adding another teir of gear does not, in any way, make GW2 play like WoW.

The treadmills exist in other MMO to keep people playing and paying the subscription fees. There is no financial viability for a gear treadmill when there are no subscription fees. GW2 needs people to spend money on the cash shop and a gear grind does nothing to help with that.

You cannot possibly cater to every single gamer. Especially when the communities in question are polar opposites. You cannot cater to gear grinders and those who don’t want a gear grind. It’s just impossible. Both communities want completely different things. In other words, you either create the game for one or the other, not for both.

Yes you can. GW2 is doing a decent job of it now.

There’s no PvE content in GW2 that a treadmiller decked out in Exotics and a non treadmiller in nothing but random dropped blues/greens cant team up and participate in together. The sole exception being the upcoming Fractals dungeon, which is its own topic. (gating content behind gear is utter garbage in my opinion)

Adding Ascendant gear does not affect this game other than giving treadmillers something to go for. It has no affect on treadmillers and non treadmillers being able to experience the same content.

I needed to tripple-post, I am sorry, but there seems to be a new limit of 5001 characters.
Anyway, I believe everyone should and understand what Wintyre Fraust points to:
it is not very probable that – given how ANet claims their development looks like – this change was motivated by meaningful player feedback AND designed AND developed AND passed ANets extensive Q&A in 3 months.
This all points to a very grim possibility: that it was planned before release, completely against the Manifesto, completely against the marketing claims. It;s a sad thought indeed!

Please do realize that a fix for the Hatchery was postponed for 3 weeks before it made it to live (actually, it still hasn’t).

I can’t recall when a game made me so feel so shattered and angry. This game felt like it was crafted perfectly for me, I could get the max stats with ease and the only variable after any of that in any situation, be it pve or pve, was skill.

I will not tolerate any more increase in stats, I’ve had 10 years of this garbage and I signed up for GW2 precisely for the horizontal progression. I will not log on or give you one more cent from my wallet until I see these ascended items vanish. The players that wanted a gear ladder cried very loudly but for the most part they are all gone AND ARE NEVER COMING BACK. Stay true to your design philosophy, remove these kitten items.

If not the only thing I will ascend from is guild wars 2 itself.

https://d2vn94glaxzkz3.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Ascended-EN.png

Ruby Orichalcum Ring: +67 Power: +48 Precision: +3% Critcal Damage

The difference is so miniscule that I even wonder if the ruby ring is better altogether while the new ascended ring is good for drops.

Anyone else reminded of dread and radiance when reading about agony and infusions? You have a condition placed on you in dungeons, that requires a counteracting buff. As the game moves forward they can add dungeons that have more agony, requiring more infusions as a way to gate access like how higher dungeons in lotro had more dread, requiring more radiance.

What ever happened to that system in lotro? Oh yay…took them a couple years to realize it was horrible and last I checked they removed it.

xarallei.4279:

Loosifah.4739:

Maybe this is just their way to get people to run the dungeons? I know for a fact 50% of you haven’t done every dungeon.

Maybe that’s because many of us bloody hate dungeons and don’t want to do them.

Well then how do plan on getting the cool looking armor from the dungeon tokens? Oh wait that’s a gear treadmill. Regardless of increased stats are not it’s a treadmill.

So you’re fine either way don’t do the dungeon and keep running around orr everyday.

Yeah just to clear up the “hardcore = wants gear treadmill” nonsense: I have over 800 hours into the game. This change is pure garbage.

HTXL.2598:

https://d2vn94glaxzkz3.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Ascended-EN.png

Ruby Orichalcum Ring: +67 Power: +48 Precision: +3% Critcal Damage

The difference is so miniscule that I even wonder if the ruby ring is better altogether while the new ascended ring is good for drops.

Apparently that equals 8%…go figure?

Corvindi.5734:

camoflaugz.5031:

While the small group of people are crying on the forums the rest are playing and farming in ORR. Were farming for gear already so this is GREAT NEWS for us. Come see the truth for yourself @ Jade Quarry in ORR.

Yeah, hope you don’t get caught in a bot sweep. I don’t think I want to risk going into Orr right now. But good luck to you, grind on, grind on, oh brave MMO soldier, grind on!

Heh, I don’t personally like doing this but I just logged on to see what is going on and the truth is this is what people are doing. I don’t think they are bots either. My point is these are the players that like progression and there is a whole lot of them busy playing the game and not posting here on the forums.

whoo all the negative auras, seriously those +2 stats on ascended rings vs exotic rings won’t make a HUGE difference. and even if the +2 stats applied to all gear slots which will make 14*2 = +28 stats vs dodge or die (PVE) or zerg vs zerg (WvW) = gamebreaking?
unless we’re talking +20 stats per each gear slot