Guild Wars 2

As an old GW1 player, I have to admit this update is fairly upsetting to hear. It’s not so much that the new ascended item would be so overpowered, but rather that ANet is compromising its own principles that drew so many people to the game in order to attempt to cater to some insatiable players. Personally, I wouldn’t quit the game over this, but I am voicing my unhappiness regarding the incoming changes.

It is fairly important to note that it’s possible that these Ascended items are locked into the Explorer stats, which means that it is strictly power and precision (and magic find but that doesn’t affect combat), so a Berserker’s exotic equivalent would still yield higher power. However, the simple fact that it appears flat out better than the current Explorer’s exotic equivalent makes ANet’s original manifesto seem like a lie.

And @Erasculio.2914, don’t shoot the messenger.

Lets stop all this madness of nearly 6000 posts in 2 days and hear this:
Ascended gear might well be the only new tier to be introduced by ArenaNet in Guild Wars 2, ever. The infusion slot upgrades will be the answer for new content. New mob conditions requiring new infusions… all you will need to change (not upgrade) will be these infusions, depending on the dungeon you want to be running.
The extra stats will of course be wanted by all of the players in the game, but since Exotics are so easy to attain by level 80s, Ascended will be that little mountain players have to climb to truly be end-game.

TL;DR There won’t be a gear treadmill, only a one-time climb to reach true end-game with infusions used as specific attunements for specific dungeons. Want to go back to old content? Back to old infusions it is.

Fayte.1803:

No one person speaks for everyone. When this topic hits 1000 pages then you can say a good chunk of players are against this.

I havent seen single thread with amount of pages coming close to this where ppl were asking for gear progression and yet they claim they did it becouse ppl were asking for it.

ChairGraveyard.2967:

tetsuo.7318:

Elesare.5604:

tetsuo.7318:

I still fail to see whats wrong with having RPG mechanics like item progression (which the game allready has by the way) in an RPG if you guys dont like RPGs why not play MOBAs or FPS or almost any other genre which diesnt have RPG mechanics?

You could try reading some of the thousands of posts in this thread. That might help.

Lol i dont think reading anymore of this uninformed kittentorm of whining is going to help me understand why people dont want something thats a fundamental part of RPGs since Gary Gygax invented them in the 70s in an RPG…

I don’t think you’ve ever played D&D if you actually think it has a gear treadmill.

Longsword – kobolds
longsword +1 – hobgoblins
longsword +2 – bugbears
longsword +3 – vampires
longsword +4 – mummies, lesser demons
longsword +5 – pit fiend, lich
longsword +5 holy avenger, defender, flametongue…..

There is DEFINTIELY a treadmill or power creep of sorts in DnD..now with spells and magic its a different story..however that is more to deal with creativity than pure numbers like most weapon or skill based classes.

tetsuo.7318:

Elesare.5604:

tetsuo.7318:

I still fail to see whats wrong with having RPG mechanics like item progression (which the game allready has by the way) in an RPG if you guys dont like RPGs why not play MOBAs or FPS or almost any other genre which diesnt have RPG mechanics?

You could try reading some of the thousands of posts in this thread. That might help.

Lol i dont think reading anymore of this uninformed kittentorm of whining is going to help me understand why people dont want something thats a fundamental part of RPGs since Gary Gygax invented them in the 70s in an RPG…

You are dead kittening wrong. The endless gear progression of D&D was introduced in later iterations of the game. The original variants had definite ceilings on the power of the items. For example, Holy Avengers were +5 swords. Period. They never got better. The only way you could get better equipment after obtaining top-level stuff was to find Artifacts, which were always saddled with more drawbacks than benefits. The endless gear treadmill is something that was introduced in COMPUTER RPGs in the 90’s. Wizards of the Coast added this stupid idea in 4E when they mistakenly thought that they could capture the WoW crowd with a pencil-and-paper game that played like WoW. Which is why 5th Edition takes most of that crap out. Since it failed miserably.

And how is it affecting game mechanics beyond what exotics already do? I do pretty well for myself in WvW, and all I have are dungeon armors and crafted lvl 80 jewelry. Not exotic jewelry, mind you. Seriously, I’m trying to figure out why people are all bent out of shape over this, especially since we have a ton of new crafting recipes coming out in addition to the accessories in this patch.

Why is everyone up in arms when y’all cried out for more normal endgame, and when they give you new armor, recipes and dungeons….you complain? God forbid the new dungeon be fun and enjoyable…but no, you have to bemoan the addition of new armor.

you guys cry too much, be thankful its being updated with good ideas. Lets not forget the fact that gw2 is free, you can log out for a month and not worry about subscription. having new armors and new things are all ok as it gives players something to worry and grind on. there should be endless progression in a game if not players will be bored, if you are not happy then you are free to keep what you have and stay what you have.

Shockwave.1230:

I just realized that in addition to the effects on PvE there will be WvW impacts as well, but WvW was never supposed to be balanced so it’s okay…

Imagine, how dumb so many people must feel about spending their time on exotics, especially those that spent badges of honor. I know I feel dumb for it… fortunately I didn’t get a complete set of exotics, but I still feel like my time spent was a waste because it was.

I’ll try sticking with masterwork pieces, because those seem to have the most bang for my time… I’d hate to go after exotic and higher tiers only to have ANet release yet another tier of gear. And that’s the worst part isn’t it? We all believed ANet wouldn’t do gear progression, but they are, and who’s to say they’ll ever stop? I’m not putting time into that, I want to put time into new stories and new content, but I have to jump over these power barriers to do it?

I get more and more disappointed when I think about it…

And here I was getting all excited about making a third and a fourth set of exotic gear for slightly different builds for my main. Now I feel like I wasted a bunch of time making even the two sets I already have..

At least I can spend even more gems on transmuting my current, eventually to be obsolete transmuted gear. Nawww, just kidding, I’ll probably just leave the game before the treadmill gets into full swing.

At least I had those six months of great anticipation, and two entire great months of a great game before the filth of gear treadmills came about to ruin it. However, Anet seems pretty smart, I would hope that they are scrapping this garbage treadmill before it kills the game. This game has so much potential, it would be such a shame for them to throw it away… and especially throwing it away like this!

Halandir.3609:

camoflaugz.5031:

This whole QQ thing is the most funniest thing Ive seen in any MMO to date and Ive played or atleast tried them all. I can’t believe how people are crying about getting new gear.
Never have I witnessed people so scared of other people wanting to progress and having different gear. Its almost like.. OMG he grinded so hard for a legendary hes an elitist! the game is broken now! c’mon people Man up, this is an MMO.

Well you should have stayed with them and left this single one for the rest of us. Oh right – Thats not the way gamehoppers work.

Loved the “Man up” remark though – I guess MMO’s are about 90% “manly” :-)

I don’t just stick to one game, and by the way I bought GW1 on the very first day it came out and I have to say GW2 feels nothing like it. I play whatever seems good. Theres nothing wrong with playing different games, this isn’t a cult or a gang. It’s not about being manly it was a figure of speech, its only about gear and people are going nutz over it.. every rpg involves gear in one form or the other. Not to mention if I am correct here the new patch will be for both casual and hardcore players so I don’t see the problem unless my information is wrong.

Repeating myself here, but it’s pertinent…

Agony implementation is a repeat of a mistake already made by ANet and then subsequently corrected in the first Guild Wars.

Read up on it in the wiki:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Infusion

Ditton.3149:

ChairGraveyard.2967:

tetsuo.7318:

Elesare.5604:

tetsuo.7318:

I still fail to see whats wrong with having RPG mechanics like item progression (which the game allready has by the way) in an RPG if you guys dont like RPGs why not play MOBAs or FPS or almost any other genre which diesnt have RPG mechanics?

You could try reading some of the thousands of posts in this thread. That might help.

Lol i dont think reading anymore of this uninformed kittentorm of whining is going to help me understand why people dont want something thats a fundamental part of RPGs since Gary Gygax invented them in the 70s in an RPG…

I don’t think you’ve ever played D&D if you actually think it has a gear treadmill.

Longsword – kobolds
longsword +1 – hobgoblins
longsword +2 – bugbears
longsword +3 – vampires
longsword +4 – mummies, lesser demons
longsword +5 – pit fiend, lich
longsword +5 holy avenger, defender, flametongue…..

There is DEFINTIELY a treadmill or power creep of sorts in DnD..now with spells and magic its a different story..however that is more to deal with creativity than pure numbers like most weapon or skill based classes.

That’s not max level gear progression (i.e., gear treadmill) try again.

Ditton.3149:

ChairGraveyard.2967:

tetsuo.7318:

Elesare.5604:

tetsuo.7318:

I still fail to see whats wrong with having RPG mechanics like item progression (which the game allready has by the way) in an RPG if you guys dont like RPGs why not play MOBAs or FPS or almost any other genre which diesnt have RPG mechanics?

You could try reading some of the thousands of posts in this thread. That might help.

Lol i dont think reading anymore of this uninformed kittentorm of whining is going to help me understand why people dont want something thats a fundamental part of RPGs since Gary Gygax invented them in the 70s in an RPG…

I don’t think you’ve ever played D&D if you actually think it has a gear treadmill.

Longsword – kobolds
longsword +1 – hobgoblins
longsword +2 – bugbears
longsword +3 – vampires
longsword +4 – mummies, lesser demons
longsword +5 – pit fiend, lich
longsword +5 holy avenger, defender, flametongue…..

There is DEFINTIELY a treadmill or power creep of sorts in DnD..now with spells and magic its a different story..however that is more to deal with creativity than pure numbers like most weapon or skill based classes.

i think you may be confused on some essential differences between these things here bro.

Draeka.5941:

And how is it affecting game mechanics beyond what exotics already do?

You don’t need resistance jewels on exotics like this " Infusions, a new type of upgrade component that can be acquired in the Mystic Forge. "

Preventing you from taking part in harder content just because you don’t have the gold or lucky enough to grind the insane amount of drops you require.

I’ve been playing MMO’s for over 13 years and well over a dozen titles in that time.
I chose GW2 over other popular MMO’s because the team just seemed to be reading my mind when it came to their design philosophies.
With a renewed focus on the open world and a break away from the now standard instanced gear blocked endgame they looked like they were on track to truly innovate on the fatigued progression endgame.
With the break from the trinity and a clear well thought out plan to provide an open world experience that spontaneously gave players a multiplayer experience grouped up or not, this game had qualities I’ve been hoping to see for years. The idea that I was playing the endgame from level 1 on up and my path to the best I could be was my choice, dungeons, open world, PvP, or daily achievements.
Sadly they seem to be cracking under the pressure to shape this game into something that more closely resembles the standard fair MMO.
IMHO.. I think this will not capture the WoW crowds interests for long and ultimately only serve to alienate there true early adopters of GW2. The outcry over this reminds me of only one other MMO incident SWG’s NGE. So regardless if the community is right or wrong, ANet you might want to look up how that turned out.

Lalabu.2097:

Lets stop all this madness of nearly 6000 posts in 2 days and hear this:
Ascended gear might well be the only new tier to be introduced by ArenaNet in Guild Wars 2, ever. The infusion slot upgrades will be the answer for new content. New mob conditions requiring new infusions… all you will need to change (not upgrade) will be these infusions, depending on the dungeon you want to be running.
The extra stats will of course be wanted by all of the players in the game, but since Exotics are so easy to attain by level 80s, Ascended will be that little mountain players have to climb to truly be end-game.

TL;DR There won’t be a gear treadmill, only a one-time climb to reach true end-game with infusions used as specific attunements for specific dungeons. Want to go back to old content? Back to old infusions it is.

No. Very obviously it is a gear treadmill. They said they added it because they heard people were frustrated that they weren’t getting legendaries or didn’t want them because they were too costly and had nothing to work towards after exotics,

Which is a pile of steaming crap, because the obvious course of action then would have been to add more skins again of varying costs like they always do.

No they’re trying to appease the MMO locusts (A VERY accurate term whoever coined that btw!). And I think they’ll be rudely confronted with the fact that it’ll turn out more people will leave then the dorks they’re trying to retain.

I think people, especially those arguing with me, are overlooking one detail; the whole point of infusion slots is to overcome the new Agony stat. Back in GW1 we had a similar system where in infused armor granted resistance to the Spectral Agony skill, so I fell confident in speculating that this will work in a similar fashion. A big point being brought up is the offensive and defensive infusion slots, as if this means they must be stat based. I say they don’t, and I’ll give some examples off the top of my head.

Defensive: Reduce agony duration by X, reduce agony damage by X, gain regeneration when under the effects of agony, ect.

Offensive: Deal X greater damage while under the effects of Agony, gain X crit chance while under the effects of Agony, gain might when under the effects of Agony, ect.

I’m going to go out on a limb and bet that the effects from infused gear will be conditional, dependent on being effected by the new Agony stat or at least fighting creature types that use said skill. If this is indeed the case than pretty much every argument about infusion slots equaling rune or sigil slots evaporates. Frankly it wouldn’t matter at all if every single upgrade in the game as an infusion equivalent if I’m right and those upgrades are themselves dependent on the Agony condition to trigger. And I remind you this condition is ONLY found in the new dungeon. In fact I’d say this is little different than the gear separation we already have; now we have PvE gear, sPvP gear, and endless dungeon gear.

I understand your concern but at this point we don’t have enough information to go on, so you shouldn’t just assume the worse. This community has embarrassed itself before doing that.

I just had another look at this “The Golden Rules of Guild Wars 2” by Ben Miller
http://www.arena.net/blog/the-golden-rules-of-guild-wars-2

And I absolutely feel like I’ve been slapped in the face..
What was the point of the promises and the awesome design ideas, when you’re selling out now?

snip from the oh so Golden Rules:
————————————————————————————————————
Do it well or don’t do it at all
With a game as big as an online world, you need to pick your battles very carefully.
Every feature you choose to invest resources in something means some other element gets less attention in one way or another.
Hopefully, at some point, you get a good idea of what it takes to make a profession, a skill for that profession, or whatever the feature or set of features at hand may be.
You get a sense for the overall resource cost of any particular element.
When that happens, you start seeing how parts contribute to the whole, and you are able to see where some features would drain resources away from more important core areas.
With Guild Wars 2, we tried to err on the side of doing a few things great, rather than doing everything less than great. What does that mean?
It means that we focused on the core of the experience instead of the unnecessary trappings. It also means we chose to cut features.
If you make the wrong decisions about what you focus your development resources on, you may create an aberrant experience.
But when that focus is applied correctly, you end up with the superior level of polish that is only possible through the devotion of sufficient time, energy and talent.

Purpose: This enables us to focus our resources on the most important game elements we want to make great.
The result is a game that has a consistent quality bar, and thus a consistent feel.
If any feature isn’t going to be able to meet that bar without hurting something else, then it needs to go for the sake of the greater whole.
It’s a vicious jungle those little features live and die in.

Respect the player
We respect you—as a player, as a human being.
This game we’re making may end up competing with your real life.
It might fight for your free time alongside your friends, your family, your work, and whatever else you might be doing.
Because of that, we want to give you a meaningful experience, not one that is a vapid waste of your time. Whatever your reasons for spending time in Tyria, we don’t want to waste it by doing stuff that isn’t fun.

That’s why we make our content epic. That’s why we have giant nightmare demons to fight, global allegiances to form, immense keeps to siege, and giant catapults to fire.
Tyria is a place that will foster relationships with new friends, and provide you a rich experience to share with old ones. It’s our version of a playground on the grandest of scales.
Finally, we are building an online world, but we are always careful to leave space for its most important element, the one we designers would like to step out of the spotlight for: its heroes—you.

Purpose: To keep us honest.

I hope you enjoyed exploring the now not-so-secret herbs and spices that help us make Guild Wars 2 such a delicious experience.

Ben Miller
Game Designer

Einhanjar.3687:

you guys cry too much, be thankful its being updated with good ideas. Lets not forget the fact that gw2 is free, you can log out for a month and not worry about subscription. having new armors and new things are all ok as it gives players something to worry and grind on. there should be endless progression in a game if not players will be bored, if you are not happy then you are free to keep what you have and stay what you have.

No, i need to be afraid of getting left behind due to exotic+1 being pushed out. And after having gained that i can start fretting over when exotic +2 comes.

Arkham Creed.7358:

I think people, especially those arguing with me, are overlooking one detail; the whole point of infusion slots is to overcome the new Agony stat. Back in GW1 we had a similar system where in infused armor granted resistance to the Spectral Agony skill, so I fell confident in speculating that this will work in a similar fashion. A big point being brought up is the offensive and defensive infusion slots, as if this means they must be stat based. I say they don’t, and I’ll give some examples off the top of my head.

Defensive: Reduce agony duration by X, reduce agony damage by X, gain regeneration when under the effects of agony, ect.

Offensive: Deal X greater damage while under the effects of Agony, gain X crit chance while under the effects of Agony, gain might when under the effects of Agony, ect.

I’m going to go out on a limb and bet that the effects from infused gear will be conditional, dependent on being effected by the new Agony stat or at least fighting creature types that use said skill. If this is indeed the case than pretty much every argument about infusion slots equaling rune or sigil slots evaporates. Frankly it wouldn’t matter at all if every single upgrade in the game as an infusion equivalent if I’m right and those upgrades are themselves dependent on the Agony condition to trigger. And I remind you this condition is ONLY found in the new dungeon. In fact I’d say this is little different than the gear separation we already have; now we have PvE gear, sPvP gear, and endless dungeon gear.

I understand your concern but at this point we don’t have enough information to go on, so you shouldn’t just assume the worse. This community has embarrassed itself before doing that.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/?utm_source=client

The screenshot of ascended gear compared with an exotic clearly shows better stats on the ascended item even without the infusion slot being filled.

Arkham Creed.7358:

I think people, especially those arguing with me, are overlooking one detail; the whole point of infusion slots is to overcome the new Agony stat. Back in GW1 we had a similar system where in infused armor granted resistance to the Spectral Agony skill, so I fell confident in speculating that this will work in a similar fashion. A big point being brought up is the offensive and defensive infusion slots, as if this means they must be stat based. I say they don’t, and I’ll give some examples off the top of my head.

Defensive: Reduce agony duration by X, reduce agony damage by X, gain regeneration when under the effects of agony, ect.

Offensive: Deal X greater damage while under the effects of Agony, gain X crit chance while under the effects of Agony, gain might when under the effects of Agony, ect.

I’m going to go out on a limb and bet that the effects from infused gear will be conditional, dependent on being effected by the new Agony stat or at least fighting creature types that use said skill. If this is indeed the case than pretty much every argument about infusion slots equaling rune or sigil slots evaporates. Frankly it wouldn’t matter at all if every single upgrade in the game as an infusion equivalent if I’m right and those upgrades are themselves dependent on the Agony condition to trigger. And I remind you this condition is ONLY found in the new dungeon. In fact I’d say this is little different than the gear separation we already have; now we have PvE gear, sPvP gear, and endless dungeon gear.

I understand your concern but at this point we don’t have enough information to go on, so you shouldn’t just assume the worse. This community has embarrassed itself before doing that.

What? I think you’re missing the whole thing everyone is pissed off about. It’s about the next tier of 8+% extra stats, which will only get worse over time.

ChairGraveyard.2967:

Lifelike.5862:

Archmagel.1350:

Lifelike.5862:

About time. New gear and something new to work towards.

Suck it up, casuals.

I am not a casual, and I don’t like that the gear is required to do the new dungeons. New gear? Great, but it should stick to the promises they made.

Tbh, I hate the guild wars 2 design philosophy. I think it’s hand-holding and pandering to casual gamers on a horribly decadent level. The only reason I’m playing this game right now is because it’s got more content and better game mechanics than TERA.

Seeing Anet take back it’s stupid, unrealistic design principles in favor of more tired and true MMO mechanics pleases me greatly. I’ll be enjoying the new content while the rest of the sorry excuse for a playerbase makes mountains out of molehills.

I wish they’d add more content to TERA so I could go back to playing that wonderful, captivating, but unfortuantely flawed MMO. I will not miss my Charr as much as I currently miss my Amani.

Also, I’ve never played GW1 so I’m not blinded by nostaliga like half of the playerbase it seems. From what I could tell, and from what most of my friends who played it have said, GW1 was really, really basic stuff in comparison to most ‘real’ mmo’s. Do we really want to go back to that?

Go back to WoW. Leave everyone else one game that’s not polluted by moronic design principles. If you want to waste your time watching numbers get bigger, go do it somewhere else.

Never played WoW. I know right? My first MMO was actually Ragnarok Online, which to this day still has more content and sophisticated design principles than a majority of modern mmo’s. It’s hampered by poor service and old software, yes, but it’s still a harsh and infinately rewarding exercise in perseverence and determination.

MMO’s are and always have been about steady progression, and working towards a large goal in a social environment. The feeling of building a character up from a novice into a powerful warrior with endgame gear, then comparing, assisting and competing with friends and foes embodies the genre. Sharing information about how to clear dungeons, tutoring less experienced players and helping them level, researching gear and skills at a meta level. That’s what I want in an MMO, a sense of depth. When you plonk players into a theme park and say “ok, everybody’s a special cupcake here. No need to do any research into your gears, just go grab end game stuff which is the same for everybody and go to town! You can reach lv 80 in 3 days!” you get this sense of user entitlement where everyone thinks they should be allowed to get whatever they want without having to work for it at all. God Forbid anything might be ‘too hard’ or ‘too much work’ for the player in modern mmo’s. Expecting results without a journey is pretty much a sign that this kind of player would be more at home with a MOBA or an action game.

Malevil.2104:

Fayte.1803:

No one person speaks for everyone. When this topic hits 1000 pages then you can say a good chunk of players are against this.

I havent seen single thread with amount of pages coming close to this where ppl were asking for gear progression and yet they claim they did it becouse ppl were asking for it.

Because those players left the game… you don’t notice the difference between launch date and now?

I said a few days ago as a joke that spectral agony was coming back before any of this was announced. I couldn’t believe it really is. Was anyone clamoring for it to return? I bet if they took a poll it’d be around 1% of players who played gw1 would want to ever see spectral agony again.

Strang.8170:

No, i need to be afraid of getting left behind due to exotic+1 being pushed out. And after having gained that i can start fretting over when exotic +2 comes.

If their release schedule is consistent, should be 2-3 months for the new tier. I can’t wait. Hopefully they will screw the game up bad enough to roll all this garbage back once they realize the WoW kiddies already left the game/will leave again as soon as they have obtained the new carrot anyway.

camoflaugz.5031:

Because those players left the game… you don’t notice the difference between launch date and now?

Yeah because catering to a tiny minority of players that will leave the game at the drop of a hat once they have the latest carrot is a brilliant plan.

Oh wait, no, it’s a completely ridiculous fail plan.

Arkham Creed.7358:

I think people, especially those arguing with me, are overlooking one detail; the whole point of infusion slots is to overcome the new Agony stat. Back in GW1 we had a similar system where in infused armor granted resistance to the Spectral Agony skill, so I fell confident in speculating that this will work in a similar fashion. A big point being brought up is the offensive and defensive infusion slots, as if this means they must be stat based. I say they don’t, and I’ll give some examples off the top of my head.

Defensive: Reduce agony duration by X, reduce agony damage by X, gain regeneration when under the effects of agony, ect.

Offensive: Deal X greater damage while under the effects of Agony, gain X crit chance while under the effects of Agony, gain might when under the effects of Agony, ect.

I’m going to go out on a limb and bet that the effects from infused gear will be conditional, dependent on being effected by the new Agony stat or at least fighting creature types that use said skill. If this is indeed the case than pretty much every argument about infusion slots equaling rune or sigil slots evaporates. Frankly it wouldn’t matter at all if every single upgrade in the game as an infusion equivalent if I’m right and those upgrades are themselves dependent on the Agony condition to trigger. And I remind you this condition is ONLY found in the new dungeon. In fact I’d say this is little different than the gear separation we already have; now we have PvE gear, sPvP gear, and endless dungeon gear.

I understand your concern but at this point we don’t have enough information to go on, so you shouldn’t just assume the worse. This community has embarrassed itself before doing that.

If Infusion would work like in GW1 I wouldn’t have a problem, but here we have to get new gear that also has better stats and that’s just not okay.

Make Ascended a prefix that can be added to any item so we can have “Ascended Staff of the Knight” (or whatever). This will just get you the infusion slot and not additional stats at all.

I stopped playing WoW because I was sick of constantly having to grind new gear just to keep up with the crowd and for access to new content. It isn’t fun, when a game becomes like a job. After 2 years of hardcore raiding I finally called it quits. I’ve had enough.

I really loved GW2 because of the promise there would be no more of this rubbish. That content will scale horizontally, that people will play because it is fun, not because they feel like they have to. Isn’t that why most of us are here? We were wooed by this truly revolutionary idea, that there would be NO gear treadmill. Where everyone would be equal, and where skill, not gear would take precedence. Whats this rubbish of “you have to get this new gear to go all the way in this new dungeon” Thats gated content. Why have agony at all? Why even have the new tier at all? Why not a dungeon that gets progressively harder as you go further, but anyone can attempt with any gear?

There are lots of things that need fixing. Buggy/boring dungeons. SPVP balance. Class balance. Broken level scaling. Guesting. Instead you guys have to add this new tier rubbish? I’ve spent over 40+ hours, over 10 days, running dungeons to get my full exotic set, and an addtional 10+g for accessories. I’ve bought a set of fine stones just to transmute them. Gee thanks, ANET. Well at least I didn’t karma farm for my exotic armours. Can you imagine how those people who karma farmed for their gear must be feeling right now? All that grind for nothing. If I wanted a game like this I would have stayed in WoW, tyvm. You cannot out-wow WoW.

I’m not angry. I’m too tired to be angry now. I was angry last night. Why bother? Guess we’re all too naive… Just days ago I was so hyped about the new content. Now I don’t even have the mood to start up the game.

ShadowBorn.6984:

Conner.4702:

Sorry no yours is the faulty one as the new gear will impact everything already in game. Or did you not read the fact that Legendaries will be upgraded to the level of the best tier gear. So please enlighten me how that doesn’t affect the game as a whole.

No point in arguing whose faulty, I was merely saying how I saw the update to be. I’ve lost ambition for even attempting to get a Legendary, something about impossibilities does not strike me fancy. The rest of the game is gonna remain the same as far as we know. Current things will not get magically harder because there are more powerful items to attain. And the game is honestly fairly easy currently. It’ll just make things more fair with the new stuff they are introducing. We currently will not be kittened, or nerfed at all I didn’t think.

I wonder how many Legendary items a player can get while trying to get a Ascended item.

camoflaugz.5031:

Because those players left the game… you don’t notice the difference between launch date and now?

No, Tarnished Coast is constantly full. I’ve had a friend trying to get in for weeks with no luck.

Is this where we’re supposed to pretend that the game was dying because it didn’t have WoW progression?

Draeka.5941:

I can’t recall, but did anyone beat GW1 without getting infused armor? That was a pretty big chunk of the story, dealing with the Mursaat. So really, what we have here is do the dungeon for slightly better gear, or don’t and enjoy the current game with hardly any loss on your end….as opposed to not finishing a game.

I recall doing the first mission involving Mursaat without infused armor, think it was my ranger. Had to use a cheesy hero build and died several times when Spectral Agony wasn’t interrupted. Possible by the later campaigns, but probably not under the original Prophecies npc and party skillset.

The thing about the GW1 Infused armor though, was that once you had it, the grind was DONE. You could take it through the rest of the campaigns, play alts, take breaks and come back to a competently geared character. This new installment takes a step away from that tradition; by placing a tier above exotic without guarantees that in a year’s time there won’t be two or three more tiers that make a currently exotic geared character completely obsolete.

Lifelike.5862:

MMO’s are and always have been about steady progression, and working towards a large goal in a social environment. The feeling of building a character up from a novice into a powerful warrior with endgame gear, then comparing, assisting and competing with friends and foes embodies the genre.

Wrong. Ultima Online had none of this rubbish and I played it for over 7 years. When the game is good enough you don’t need this never ending carrot-on-a-stick game-play to keep people playing. In-fact, it was when they began to introduce this sort of thing, adding a grind treadmill by allowing the training of skills past 100, that it ultimately killed the game and made all the old players leave.

Unfortunately rather than following the UO/sandbox model most modern MMOs followed the EverQuest model as it is more profitable, despite being lacking in substance.

Lord Moose.8234:

Arkham Creed.7358:

I think people, especially those arguing with me, are overlooking one detail; the whole point of infusion slots is to overcome the new Agony stat. Back in GW1 we had a similar system where in infused armor granted resistance to the Spectral Agony skill, so I fell confident in speculating that this will work in a similar fashion. A big point being brought up is the offensive and defensive infusion slots, as if this means they must be stat based. I say they don’t, and I’ll give some examples off the top of my head.

Defensive: Reduce agony duration by X, reduce agony damage by X, gain regeneration when under the effects of agony, ect.

Offensive: Deal X greater damage while under the effects of Agony, gain X crit chance while under the effects of Agony, gain might when under the effects of Agony, ect.

I’m going to go out on a limb and bet that the effects from infused gear will be conditional, dependent on being effected by the new Agony stat or at least fighting creature types that use said skill. If this is indeed the case than pretty much every argument about infusion slots equaling rune or sigil slots evaporates. Frankly it wouldn’t matter at all if every single upgrade in the game as an infusion equivalent if I’m right and those upgrades are themselves dependent on the Agony condition to trigger. And I remind you this condition is ONLY found in the new dungeon. In fact I’d say this is little different than the gear separation we already have; now we have PvE gear, sPvP gear, and endless dungeon gear.

I understand your concern but at this point we don’t have enough information to go on, so you shouldn’t just assume the worse. This community has embarrassed itself before doing that.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/?utm_source=client

The screenshot of ascended gear compared with an exotic clearly shows better stats on the ascended item even without the infusion slot being filled.

And did you miss the fact that said ascended gear doesn’t have an upgrade slot? I talked about that in my last post. Assuming these “infusions” are not standard stat upgrades and instead deal only with the Agony condition then it makes sense for their slightly higher base stats to be better. Overall you’re actually getting LOWER stats from ascended gear. That’s the theory anyway, and given the amount of information we have it’s just as valid as yours.

Another false promise from Anet. Once you get your max stat gear you don’t need to worry about a gear treadmill. Now all of a sudden there will be better gear. Lets just start adding legendarys to the gem shop since at this point half of the stuff this game promised to be has been a lie.

Fungalfoot.7213:

camoflaugz.5031:

Because those players left the game… you don’t notice the difference between launch date and now?

No, Tarnished Coast is constantly full. I’ve had a friend trying to get in for weeks with no luck.

Is this where we’re supposed to pretend that the game was dying because it didn’t have WoW progression?

LOL! Yeah.

Just like how it’s failing due to not having a can’t-cast-while-moving combat system with 50 abilities that you never use.

It’s also failing because of the lack of holy trinity, everyone hates not being dependent on a healer and tank all the time.

/s

And did you miss the fact that said ascended gear doesn’t have an upgrade slot? I talked about that in my last post. Assuming these “infusions” are not standard stat upgrades and instead deal only with the Agony condition then it makes sense for their slightly higher base stats to be better. Overall you’re actually getting LOWER stats from ascended gear. That’s the theory anyway, and given the amount of information we have it’s just as valid as yours.

Incorrect! Ascended have 8% better stats than an exotic with equivalent upgrade.

Rich.9503:

What a pity, it was a good game for a time. One of the best. At least i got my money’s worth and fond memories along with it, and for that i cant really complain.

Yeah, really was a beautiful product, shame the core always rots from the inside out. Better for some in the long run, those who know that such dweeb bate, at it’s core, is the road to nowhere.

I remember when Age of Conan did the same thing… Funcom lost most of their player base within a few months, it was the end of open world PvP.

Likely the end of WvW.

Strang.8170:

Einhanjar.3687:

you guys cry too much, be thankful its being updated with good ideas. Lets not forget the fact that gw2 is free, you can log out for a month and not worry about subscription. having new armors and new things are all ok as it gives players something to worry and grind on. there should be endless progression in a game if not players will be bored, if you are not happy then you are free to keep what you have and stay what you have.

No, i need to be afraid of getting left behind due to exotic+1 being pushed out. And after having gained that i can start fretting over when exotic +2 comes.

atleast you have something to worry about and think about. Its fun that way and seeing Anet it might be token dungeon which will be easy to get like 30 runs to get full set. 30 runs can be like a week to a week just in time for December patch. its all about FUN FUN FUN grind will be grind if you take it seriously.

Some of the replies in this thread is so much full fail, how can human beings be so simple; even if they’d be 11 yrs old…

I am GLAD about the changes. I fully support them. They add to the dimension of the game. The game’s point is moving forward. There’s so much one can do after getting bored. Arenanet is bringing content to us and you guys are whining about it. You are like beggars who put conditions…What is wrong with you.

I applaude Linsey Murdock and the Dev team for this audacious content patch. Keep bringing it! The majority loves it!

Erasculio.2914:

Edge.4180:

That’s almost as disappointing as the change itself. I was hoping to see some feedback coming from the other direction by now.

They don’t have anything to say. What would their defense be?

“Sorry, we panicked since the WoW fanboys began leaving the game – like they have left every single big MMO released the last few years – and so we decided to alienate our loyal fanbase in an attempt to make the WoW fanboys stick around, despite how they will leave regardless.”

Apparently my response to your original longer post was lost as Anet is trying to sweep everything under the rug into this thread.

But I think the point about panicking and caving to the WoW locust mindset is on point. With little hope of it actually working or mattering to that crowd.

I mentioned how way back 8 years ago in WoW beta, the same thing happened with former EQ die-hards, who had loved that game as their first MMO, droned on about out of date tired mechanics, that were really quite bad, but that they saw through rose colored glasses because of nostalgia and remembering the good times they had in the game in the past. They were looking to recreate their experience of EQ, both the good and the bad, which they really couldn’t separate out from each other.

Now to this new generation of MMO players, WoW is to them what EQ was to those people so long ago. They both want – and don’t want – what they remember from that game. But what they want is a feeling or experience, not something truly captured by mechanics, and they aren’t going to find it here from Anet recreating a bad copy of something that was fit for only a moment in time, but is now actually outdated and tired even for them.

It is a fruitless chase, not only for those players, but more importantly, for Anet to try to give to them, and for the rest of us to have to suffer the failure of learning it can’t be done.

Arkham Creed.7358:

Lord Moose.8234:

Arkham Creed.7358:

I think people, especially those arguing with me, are overlooking one detail; the whole point of infusion slots is to overcome the new Agony stat. Back in GW1 we had a similar system where in infused armor granted resistance to the Spectral Agony skill, so I fell confident in speculating that this will work in a similar fashion. A big point being brought up is the offensive and defensive infusion slots, as if this means they must be stat based. I say they don’t, and I’ll give some examples off the top of my head.

Defensive: Reduce agony duration by X, reduce agony damage by X, gain regeneration when under the effects of agony, ect.

Offensive: Deal X greater damage while under the effects of Agony, gain X crit chance while under the effects of Agony, gain might when under the effects of Agony, ect.

I’m going to go out on a limb and bet that the effects from infused gear will be conditional, dependent on being effected by the new Agony stat or at least fighting creature types that use said skill. If this is indeed the case than pretty much every argument about infusion slots equaling rune or sigil slots evaporates. Frankly it wouldn’t matter at all if every single upgrade in the game as an infusion equivalent if I’m right and those upgrades are themselves dependent on the Agony condition to trigger. And I remind you this condition is ONLY found in the new dungeon. In fact I’d say this is little different than the gear separation we already have; now we have PvE gear, sPvP gear, and endless dungeon gear.

I understand your concern but at this point we don’t have enough information to go on, so you shouldn’t just assume the worse. This community has embarrassed itself before doing that.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/?utm_source=client

The screenshot of ascended gear compared with an exotic clearly shows better stats on the ascended item even without the infusion slot being filled.

And did you miss the fact that said ascended gear doesn’t have an upgrade slot? I talked about that in my last post. Assuming these “infusions” are not standard stat upgrades and instead deal only with the Agony condition then it makes sense for their slightly higher base stats to be better. Overall you’re actually getting LOWER stats from ascended gear. That’s the theory anyway, and given the amount of information we have it’s just as valid as yours.

You’re going to have to show the math you’re using, so we can show the faults in it. Because quite literally anyone who’s run the numbers on this who can explain it is getting ~+8% regardless of the slot, same with me. This shouldn’t even be up for debate.

some players simply left the game for the lack of endgame or the non balance of pvp and pve experience… to solve this, devs need to add more high end contents, balance classes and monster to give us a great experience… and maybe retake the leavers…

but.. this doesnt mean add a kitten new set with kitten better stats!

Firing Linsey Murdock isn’t the solution, we don’t even know who idea was the one of adding gear trendmill in the game. We only know he’s the responsible for designing the new items, but not that it was his idea to ADD said new items.

Either way, whatever path ANet chooses to go on, they’ll have their playerbase divided by those who wants gear trendmill, and those who don’t.
Eventually, those who dislike it will leave, and only time will tell if they were right or wrong from a business perspective.

If they want money (everyone does), they’ll have to figure which playerbase they should cater to, one thing is for certain, they can’t please both.
(Actually they can, but I’m not going to argue on this)

Holy crap it scares me that people are freaked out.

People are freaking out over words chosen by a marketing team. Think about it, if you add a defensive ascension slot that allows you to say best this type of monster or reduce such and such status effect, is that not growing more powerful?

People say there will be a gear treadmill. Please, show me one of the ascension stats that will be in the game.

Since you can’t, isn’t it a little too early to worry?

People need to stop speculating over words in an article. If they introduce it and there is an obvious treadmill, then by all means, blow up the forums about the distaste. I know I will.

But until Anet actually adds the items, why freak out? No one knows what they will be so it’s A LOT early to worry.

Now the agony debuff, that I don’t like. But then again, I find % based attacks/debuffs to be a pathetic excuse for difficulty. Enemies already hit hard enough, why have them take off a set % of my health?

And yes, I am aware that the new gear will have 5 stats on it. On the screenshot in the article comparing the rings: How much exactly is +18 power and precision? At lv 80, 18 precision is what? 1%, if that? Granted if you get a full set, it will add up (OBVIOUSLY), but how is that exactly game breaking? People run instances with masterwork and rares instead of exotics. If you are in a lower instance, you will get scaled down, so you won’t notice your little power boost.

I see no treadmill coming.

If one comes though, I will join all of you in screaming at Anet.

As long as this wont be the norm for future content.. Im well, its possibly fine. But just as long as it wont be the norm..

Lifelike.5862:

Never played WoW. I know right? My first MMO was actually Ragnarok Online, which to this day still has more content and sophisticated design principles than a majority of modern mmo’s. It’s hampered by poor service and old software, yes, but it’s still a harsh and infinately rewarding exercise in perseverence and determination.

MMO’s are and always have been about steady progression, and working towards a large goal in a social environment. The feeling of building a character up from a novice into a powerful warrior with endgame gear, then comparing, assisting and competing with friends and foes embodies the genre. Sharing information about how to clear dungeons, tutoring less experienced players and helping them level, researching gear and skills at a meta level. That’s what I want in an MMO, a sense of depth. When you plonk players into a theme park and say “ok, everybody’s a special cupcake here. No need to do any research into your gears, just go grab end game stuff which is the same for everybody and go to town! You can reach lv 80 in 3 days!” you get this sense of user entitlement where everyone thinks they should be allowed to get whatever they want without having to work for it at all. God Forbid anything might be ‘too hard’ or ‘too much work’ for the player in modern mmo’s. Expecting results without a journey is pretty much a sign that this kind of player would be more at home with a MOBA or an action game.

Thats the issue here with the players wanting “progression”. RO was a grind fest, gear check, luck check with card drop and over upgrading gears that has more chance to break than anything, and it requires no skill whatsoever, other than the skill to learn v.f.wall.

This is a game that actually requires skills, skills to out play other players, on a level playing field of gears that are easy to obtain to everyone, not just to the ones who grind.

If grinding and gear checking is what you are looking for in a game, look else where.

I really have to question the reasoning behind introducing a new item tier so soon. A lot of people don’t even have a full exotic set yet. For example, I just got my character finally set up with gear and sigils I wanted yesterday.

I wouldn’t particularly mind a higher item tier with an expansion but 3 months after the game launched, when a lot of people are still working on their sets?

Someone mentioned “content locusts” in this topic and I couldn’t agree more. You can never add enough content to appease these people. No matter how much content you create, it will be devoured by the WoW refugees within days. Then the forum will be subjected to yet another round of “There is no end-game” and “There is no content” posts. Then these people will return to WoW, because that’s really the only game they like, even if they claim to hate it, while the rest of us will be stuck with something we never really wanted or asked for.

Fungalfoot.7213:

camoflaugz.5031:

Because those players left the game… you don’t notice the difference between launch date and now?

No, Tarnished Coast is constantly full. I’ve had a friend trying to get in for weeks with no luck.

Is this where we’re supposed to pretend that the game was dying because it didn’t have WoW progression?

Lots of people were complaining before that there wasn’t much end game and they left. Im on jade quarry which is usually a full server but I dont know how accurate that is. I sometimes play with an alt and its pretty painful not seeing anybody in the lower level zones. Its not even about Wow, people keep saying wow this wow that.. Its just the MMO genre itself, there is already a standard in what people expect in MMO’s and the truth is at this point the game feels handicapped in a way that you cant go any further in it. Handicapping in an MMO is pretty fail in todays standards imo. You can get away with that in a single player rgp but not an MMO. This is 2012 now MMO’s should be getting bigger and bigger. Handicapping players is not the solution. jmo

Einhanjar.3687:

Strang.8170:

Einhanjar.3687:

you guys cry too much, be thankful its being updated with good ideas. Lets not forget the fact that gw2 is free, you can log out for a month and not worry about subscription. having new armors and new things are all ok as it gives players something to worry and grind on. there should be endless progression in a game if not players will be bored, if you are not happy then you are free to keep what you have and stay what you have.

No, i need to be afraid of getting left behind due to exotic+1 being pushed out. And after having gained that i can start fretting over when exotic +2 comes.

atleast you have something to worry about and think about. Its fun that way and seeing Anet it might be token dungeon which will be easy to get like 30 runs to get full set. 30 runs can be like a week to a week just in time for December patch. its all about FUN FUN FUN grind will be grind if you take it seriously.

Well you know, had they sticked to what current dungeons are, i wouldn´t have to worry. I could come in and participate in every part of the game like before, but with extra content added.
Instead with exotics+1 i need to first get my gear to top again and then start doing things like wvw or other forms of pve.

on a side note…worrying is fun?

Logun.2349:

The outcry over this reminds me of only one other MMO incident SWG’s NGE. So regardless if the community is right or wrong, ANet you might want to look up how that turned out.

That’s what came to my mind as well. The funny thing is, Lost Shores will be released on the 15th of November and the NGE was released on 15th of November, too.

Arkham Creed.7358:

And did you miss the fact that said ascended gear doesn’t have an upgrade slot? I talked about that in my last post. Assuming these “infusions” are not standard stat upgrades and instead deal only with the Agony condition then it makes sense for their slightly higher base stats to be better. Overall you’re actually getting LOWER stats from ascended gear. That’s the theory anyway, and given the amount of information we have it’s just as valid as yours.

Oh please RTFBP (read the f… blog post): Ascended gear without infusions is better than exotic gear with an upgrade. The stats are not lower they are higher.

And so the class war commences.

Can you really not perceive what this change is already doing to your community, ArenaNet? Rescind. Rethink. Reform. We’ll forgive you if you push back the patch. I can’t say the same forgiveness will be there if you willfully rend the community asunder.

I can’t speak for WoW, but a lot of new mmo’s could take a note from Ragnarok’s book when it comes to how items are handled. Maybe not so much for the upgrading system, but I have never found another mmo that did hoarding and farming in such a satisfying manner.

I was hoping that GW2 would have at least some of that simple pleasure. It does. The way skills, conditions and various other things in this game work is very interesting, and it has just enough items and crafting recipes to keep me interested, but it’s still lacking sorely in the knicknacks department.

The way things are looking, it just seems like a lot of players are needlessly intimidated by the thought that their ‘hard earned’ exotics will become obsolete with this new tier of gear, and that they’ll have to put in a little more work to keep up.