Guild Wars 2

Arkham Creed.7358:

Spurious D.6173:

Arkham Creed.7358:

I think people, especially those arguing with me, are overlooking one detail; the whole point of infusion slots is to overcome the new Agony stat. Back in GW1 we had a similar system where in infused armor granted resistance to the Spectral Agony skill, so I fell confident in speculating that this will work in a similar fashion. A big point being brought up is the offensive and defensive infusion slots, as if this means they must be stat based. I say they don’t, and I’ll give some examples off the top of my head.

Defensive: Reduce agony duration by X, reduce agony damage by X, gain regeneration when under the effects of agony, ect.

Offensive: Deal X greater damage while under the effects of Agony, gain X crit chance while under the effects of Agony, gain might when under the effects of Agony, ect.

I’m going to go out on a limb and bet that the effects from infused gear will be conditional, dependent on being effected by the new Agony stat or at least fighting creature types that use said skill. If this is indeed the case than pretty much every argument about infusion slots equaling rune or sigil slots evaporates. Frankly it wouldn’t matter at all if every single upgrade in the game as an infusion equivalent if I’m right and those upgrades are themselves dependent on the Agony condition to trigger. And I remind you this condition is ONLY found in the new dungeon. In fact I’d say this is little different than the gear separation we already have; now we have PvE gear, sPvP gear, and endless dungeon gear.

I understand your concern but at this point we don’t have enough information to go on, so you shouldn’t just assume the worse. This community has embarrassed itself before doing that.

I think people like you are overlooking one detail.

This is content gates. The entire Agony mechanic is not new. It’s been done in other games, and it does not work. It almost fully killed off LOTRO, and even WoW removed attunements way back near the end of their 1st expansion. Content/Gear Gates ruin games. We were promised accessible content for all, limited solely by player skill.

No matter what they do with progressive gear (which we were also promised we would not have to deal with), and no matter what the infusions actually do, people are going to be denied access to some* of the games content without replacing their current gear.

• It should also be noted that “some” in this case basically means, all content that is not currently in the game before this update. So -all- future content will be similarly gated. This isn’t speculation, they admit as much right in the blog. This is their new thing! Attunements! Something WoW abandoned due to player retention issues, something that caused a middlingly profitable mmo (lotro) to become a F2P one, is their new endgame.

I can name a game wherein it did work. Guild Wars. Look it up. Go on the wiki and search for “Spectral Agony.”

GW1 didnt have a gear treadmill. And infusion was a completely different idea.

Ok Chris , will there be an NPC to refund all the exotics? ‘Cos I don’t feel like I need them now, or needed at all. You made some promises which influenced my decisions about using my game and real life resources and time, but you changed your mind. So naturally, I’m changing my mind and I want an in-game refund.
I’m pretty sure I can farm out Ascended kitten in rares or masterwork, less gold, euros and time spent gearing up. And of course refunded resources will help :P

Lopez.7369:

That post was a bunch of contradictions:

“We want to add a tier with more stats between exotic and legendary, even though exotic and legendary basically share stats.”

“We don’t want a gear treadmill, but here’s how we’re adding one!”

“We want to make it an even playing field for all types of players, but we’re okay with leaving WvW and event players behind for now.”

The WvW news is no shock. WvW has been a complete afterthought from the get-go. I would wager a good deal of their player-loss is from that (I am a former Titan Alliance member and I know a good deal of our members took a break after we disbanded. There was an awful lot of frustration from the total lack of action on AN’s part.) with the whole scene and their solution is… to introduce outdated PvE WoW mechanics to fix it.

Yeah I am sure that will end well…

Thanks to confirm that you don’t care much more on your fan base that played and playing gw1 and you wanna capture more people from wow.
Thanks for ruining my perfect game.
Sennar the wizard

Arkham Creed.7358:

I can name a game wherein it did work. Guild Wars. Look it up. Go on the wiki and search for “Spectral Agony.”

This argument has taken place probably a dozen times in this thread already, and no matter how many times it comes up it’s not going to change the fact that Spectral Agony and Agony bear absolutely no similarities other than the name and the vague idea that you will take less damage if you are “infused”.

Kain Francois.4328:

This part of Chris White’s post is a relief:

We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Because of that quote, I am assuming ANET will not add a new tier of armor (But I also worry they may spin it because of the “every 3 months” thing…)

However…

We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features.

This part has me very worried…

I would really like ANET to re-assure us there would be no more tiers past Ascended.

oh yeah, such a relief. same relief as their manifesto and their director’s statements.

LIES. i don’t trust anything they have to say anymore. customer trust (and all trust in general) is lost very easily, but very hard to recover. they just lost mine.

Why do we need a new set of gear? Just add a new set of armor with a new slot that ONLY affects new dungeons.

Or add new gear you can get in WvWvW.

I’m casual and I’m glad they are adding this feature.

The game needs dungeon progression from A to B to C etc. That means beating hard content A to get to hard content B and so on. If you can’t beat it, you don’t get the shinies.

The difference is that what you don’t need is

1. 10-25 people
2. Luck that your gear drops

That is a gear grind.

Having to beat hard content to get a tier of gear is not a gear grind.

skuko.5783:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.

Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores.

Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

let me get this straight – first you (Anet) state that the legendaries will be the same as exotics stat wise.

then you say there’s a GAP between exotics and legendaries? wtf there’s no gap. they have awesome skins that take a lot of effort to get, what’s wrong with that?

so then you’re going to introduce a higher tier item in order to close the gap (which isn’t there in the first place) and then you’re going to buff stats of legendaries?

how about just show a middle finger to the community, because that’s pretty much what you’re doing.

i bought this game with the premise that once i gather my gear (exotics), i will enjoy playing wvw (the endgame) with my guild and friends. now your’re going to force me into a dungeon/further grind (in wvw or whatever) just to keep up with the stats?

no thanks. if i want to treadmill my kitten off, i can find plenty of mmos for that.
so i got some advice for you.

first, go take a lesson from turbine, see how this BS mechanic with gated content worked out for them.

second, go take a look at CCP and how you should be communitacting with your playerbase.

and third, WTF is “we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content”???? you don’t even publish any patch notes and want feedback? from what? a couple of PR BS on the website? wake the eff up. make the patch notes public a month before implementation, make the testing public, make your freaking release roadmap public for christs sake. or you want feedback on your buggy BS after you implement it?

way to go lol. sorry for my rude tone, but arenanet just lost all credibitly they had – introducing new content into a buggy game instead of fixing existing first just for the sake of retaining wow kids. turns out your company is just another developer full of BS.

time to move on i guess.

Harsh words, but just. Definitely justified anger, and one of the best posts in this thread.

Dinks.2478:

Arkham Creed.7358:

Spurious D.6173:

Arkham Creed.7358:

I think people, especially those arguing with me, are overlooking one detail; the whole point of infusion slots is to overcome the new Agony stat. Back in GW1 we had a similar system where in infused armor granted resistance to the Spectral Agony skill, so I fell confident in speculating that this will work in a similar fashion. A big point being brought up is the offensive and defensive infusion slots, as if this means they must be stat based. I say they don’t, and I’ll give some examples off the top of my head.

Defensive: Reduce agony duration by X, reduce agony damage by X, gain regeneration when under the effects of agony, ect.

Offensive: Deal X greater damage while under the effects of Agony, gain X crit chance while under the effects of Agony, gain might when under the effects of Agony, ect.

I’m going to go out on a limb and bet that the effects from infused gear will be conditional, dependent on being effected by the new Agony stat or at least fighting creature types that use said skill. If this is indeed the case than pretty much every argument about infusion slots equaling rune or sigil slots evaporates. Frankly it wouldn’t matter at all if every single upgrade in the game as an infusion equivalent if I’m right and those upgrades are themselves dependent on the Agony condition to trigger. And I remind you this condition is ONLY found in the new dungeon. In fact I’d say this is little different than the gear separation we already have; now we have PvE gear, sPvP gear, and endless dungeon gear.

I understand your concern but at this point we don’t have enough information to go on, so you shouldn’t just assume the worse. This community has embarrassed itself before doing that.

I think people like you are overlooking one detail.

This is content gates. The entire Agony mechanic is not new. It’s been done in other games, and it does not work. It almost fully killed off LOTRO, and even WoW removed attunements way back near the end of their 1st expansion. Content/Gear Gates ruin games. We were promised accessible content for all, limited solely by player skill.

No matter what they do with progressive gear (which we were also promised we would not have to deal with), and no matter what the infusions actually do, people are going to be denied access to some* of the games content without replacing their current gear.

• It should also be noted that “some” in this case basically means, all content that is not currently in the game before this update. So -all- future content will be similarly gated. This isn’t speculation, they admit as much right in the blog. This is their new thing! Attunements! Something WoW abandoned due to player retention issues, something that caused a middlingly profitable mmo (lotro) to become a F2P one, is their new endgame.

I can name a game wherein it did work. Guild Wars. Look it up. Go on the wiki and search for “Spectral Agony.”

GW1 didnt have a gear treadmill. And infusion was a completely different idea.

Still a content gate.

Amulrei.4973:

monepipi.5160:

Then they’ll just give another response to placate you. Then you’ll grind the new tier, wouldn’t you? repeat ad infinitum. Thats reaaaal fun. Not like wow, guys! I promise!

People are angry because they loved the game. They had faith, and believed in ANET’s initial statements. All this anger and negativity is totally justified.

The irony is they stand to drive off more of their once-customers then they might of retained by appeasing the WoW mentality. Nothing short of foolishness if you ask me. Many came to this game to escape the very concepts they are trying to force upon us. It is not going to end well.

No, its not going to.

Personally, I’m done. I’m too old for rubbish like this. After 10+ years of MMOs, I really thought this will be the perfect game to last me forever. No eternal grind? No treadmill? Play purely for fun? lol….

Guess the ride was fun while it lasted. We all got suckered in, now they’re going for the WoW kids.

Arkham Creed.7358:

I can name a game wherein it did work. Guild Wars. Look it up. Go on the wiki and search for “Spectral Agony.”

What makes you say that it worked in Guild Wars? They ended up changing it to make infusing gear much easier, and did not carry the same sort of mechanic into future additions in the game.

WoW also had a mechanic in which players needed a specific type of gear for certain dungeons back when it was first released (the period of the game now referred to as ‘Vanilla’). For Molten Core, players needed fire resist gear. For Blackwing Lair, players needed a fire resist set, a shadow resist set, and a specific cloak. For Ahn Qiraj, players needed a nature resist set. This was unpopular, and the developers have moved away from that sort of mechanic and have not gone back.

I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.

Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores.

Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

Well Chris I got a question for you them.

What are you doing for crafters? I hate MMO with crafting systems to nowhere, but have I invested all this gold into my crafting professions to craft the best in slot items only to get the shaft now.

What do you see this doing for crafters will we have Ascended items we can craft? Or are crafters cut out and shoved aside by Mystic Forge recipes and dungeon drops.

Will we see Ascended items drop as part of open world events, will we be able to get them through karma, am I piginholed into a Dungeon runs to get these new items?

Because I kind of like the fact I can play this game “my way” at the moment instead of “your way” to be the best my character can be.

I’d like to know what’s going to happen with crafting and how it will fit into this “New Progression modle” before I waste any more money on it because at this point I’m feeling like a chump that wasted more gold then I care to think about at the moment.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill.

Translation: “Our goal is not to use the term ‘gear treadmill,’ while creating something that looks and acts like a gear treadmill.”

I look forward to the “1984” expansion pack.

Maybe they’ve convinced themselves of their purity, but their words are plain and there’s no reason to fool ourselves. Required gear for gated content. Do it fast, do it slow, whatever—you’re still doing it.

Never hinted they would do anything like it, said the exact opposite, despite surely knowing they were doing it pre-launch. This thing must have been largely in the can months ago.

No communication, few details, lots of PR weasel words…. No trust.

Arkham Creed.7358:

Spurious D.6173:

Arkham Creed.7358:

I think people, especially those arguing with me, are overlooking one detail; the whole point of infusion slots is to overcome the new Agony stat. Back in GW1 we had a similar system where in infused armor granted resistance to the Spectral Agony skill, so I fell confident in speculating that this will work in a similar fashion. A big point being brought up is the offensive and defensive infusion slots, as if this means they must be stat based. I say they don’t, and I’ll give some examples off the top of my head.

Defensive: Reduce agony duration by X, reduce agony damage by X, gain regeneration when under the effects of agony, ect.

Offensive: Deal X greater damage while under the effects of Agony, gain X crit chance while under the effects of Agony, gain might when under the effects of Agony, ect.

I’m going to go out on a limb and bet that the effects from infused gear will be conditional, dependent on being effected by the new Agony stat or at least fighting creature types that use said skill. If this is indeed the case than pretty much every argument about infusion slots equaling rune or sigil slots evaporates. Frankly it wouldn’t matter at all if every single upgrade in the game as an infusion equivalent if I’m right and those upgrades are themselves dependent on the Agony condition to trigger. And I remind you this condition is ONLY found in the new dungeon. In fact I’d say this is little different than the gear separation we already have; now we have PvE gear, sPvP gear, and endless dungeon gear.

I understand your concern but at this point we don’t have enough information to go on, so you shouldn’t just assume the worse. This community has embarrassed itself before doing that.

I think people like you are overlooking one detail.

This is content gates. The entire Agony mechanic is not new. It’s been done in other games, and it does not work. It almost fully killed off LOTRO, and even WoW removed attunements way back near the end of their 1st expansion. Content/Gear Gates ruin games. We were promised accessible content for all, limited solely by player skill.

No matter what they do with progressive gear (which we were also promised we would not have to deal with), and no matter what the infusions actually do, people are going to be denied access to some* of the games content without replacing their current gear.

• It should also be noted that “some” in this case basically means, all content that is not currently in the game before this update. So -all- future content will be similarly gated. This isn’t speculation, they admit as much right in the blog. This is their new thing! Attunements! Something WoW abandoned due to player retention issues, something that caused a middlingly profitable mmo (lotro) to become a F2P one, is their new endgame.

I can name a game wherein it did work. Guild Wars. Look it up. Go on the wiki and search for “Spectral Agony.”

GuildWars did one important thing different: You didn’t need any new gear, you just flagged your current gear as infused and everything was fine.

Arkham Creed.7358:

Still a content gate.

Guild Wars 1 Spectral Agony was a “content gate” in the sense that “Defense of Shaemoor” is a “content gate”.

Honestly who cares…. I mean really.

Gear doesn’t affect competitive pvp.

Gear really only effects WvW and pve… wvw is zerg vs zerg anyways.

And pve well…. its not like its hard to begin with, and really honestly for many there is no point in pve at all.

And exotics weren’t hard to get lol. And I doubt the new gear will be hard to get either.

For those saying blah blah blah i logged in every day now with this news im quitting…. oh please. What do you login and do all day then? run in circles because you have completed everything? seriously. Some of you need to get a grip and stop the over reacting drama queen acts.

Erebus Delirium.4892:

But if you HATE it so much with all your blind passion, then go play another game.

I do hate it. I’ve done it before and I never want to do it again. Which is why I bought gw2. So what mmo am I supposed to play now?

Ryth.6518:

I’m casual and I’m glad they are adding this feature.

The game needs dungeon progression from A to B to C etc. That means beating hard content A to get to hard content B and so on. If you can’t beat it, you don’t get the shinies.

The difference is that what you don’t need is

1. 10-25 people
2. Luck that your gear drops

That is a gear grind.

Having to beat hard content to get a tier of gear is not a gear grind.

New Content =/= more stats and bigger numbers. New content is getting better at the game and fighting harder and more involved fights with harder and more involved mechanics.

Hey I have an idea.

Why not wait until the update hits this weekend, and THEN feel free to freak out if you think it’s still just.

The way people freak out about these things is almost sad, if not mostly funny.

Obviously Anet thinks they need a new “shiney” to pull their players back from other games..aesthetic rewards arent enough to pull them back and I think its obvious that the players from gw1 are not enough, they want more..they had more and they are going to cater to who gives them more.

elsbeth.3567:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill.

Translation: “Our goal is not to use the term ‘gear treadmill,’ while creating something that looks and acts like a gear treadmill.”

You have no clue what a gear treadmill is.

This is not a treadmill.

Letifer.4360:

Strang.8170:

Letifer.4360:

They also said that Legendary weapons weren’t finished, people just assumed they where just talking about aesthetics.

And they´d add to their stats?…wouldn´t that make them better than not so rare gear then? You know, like they said it wouldn´t be?

The game currently has a clear max stat gear that´s exotics, all other rare skins have same amount os stats, including legendaries.
Now they pump up legendaries and make a new tier, making rarer items more powerful.

They didn’t say they would or that they wouldn’t.

Look, you still had to “grind” to get those exotics(dungeons, karma, tokens, craft whatever), else you would be using rares or worst, what is the big deal in getting a new set of gear?

It makes the same difference as a full exotic player going vs a full rare player, the full rare player if its better will always wipe the floor with him anyway, this makes 0 difference in wvw specially because most fights are won by the biggest mob. In pve if you don’t want to make the dungeon just don’t, you would get the gear just by doing it anyway.

Ok, look:

They´ve very well established exotics as a max stats currently in game.
They´ve established that rarer weapons wouldn´t be any more powerful than more common ones. We´ve already seen that exotics are those max stat items.

Now they do introduce a new tier of rarer gear, that has better stats…we cry foul.
If they do it once and get away with it, nothing makes them think it would be bad idea to do it again….and again and again, enter the treadmill.

Please, please reconsider this ArenaNet.

This is not the game i signed up for when i saw the manifesto video.

Ryth.6518:

elsbeth.3567:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill.

Translation: “Our goal is not to use the term ‘gear treadmill,’ while creating something that looks and acts like a gear treadmill.”

You have no clue what a gear treadmill is.

This is not a treadmill.

It most assuredly is the begining of one.

Who in their right minds doesn’t want their character to get more powerful? So what, you have to farm a little for better gear, big whoop. It’s not like you have a lot to do after finishing most of the content. And the gear upgrade comes naturally by exploring the new content. As long as it’s not a few months grind like in other popular titles, I don’t see the problem.
A few days of playing for better gear and stronger character triggers 124 pages of complains? You people are sad. Especially given that the ring will drop/be obtainable by simply exploring the new dungeon..I’m missing the logic in all the arguments.
I have followed everything that ANet said about the game prior to it’s release and I don’t remember ever seeing anything about there not being any kind of character progression in the following years.
If that is the case and my characters stay the same for the entire life of the game, with all my love for GW I will drop it in a couple of months. I truly hope there will be more of a gear progression than this, , given that exotic gear is a joke to get.
Stop patting just the casuals on the head, give something for the more hardcore players too.
And can you actually say that you even need exotic gear to enjoy the content of the game? Hell, you can do all the dungeons and PVE in green gear just fine.
I don’t know when people have turn into big whiners.
It bothers me too that they promised that there will be no grinding and most of the game is grinding. But it doesn’t bother me because of the grind itself. I had the pleasure to grind for a legendary and I can say it was 99% a huge grind. No, it bothers me that they lied about it, that they didn’t live up to their promises.

But better gear? Hell yea.

Archernick.8260:

Hey I have an idea.

Why not wait until the update hits this weekend, and THEN feel free to freak out if you think it’s still just.

The way people freak out about these things is almost sad, if not mostly funny.

Just what information do you think is necessary for this discussion that is not in their blog post today – https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

noir.6392:

Who in their right minds doesn’t want their character to get more powerful? So what, you have to farm a little for better gear, big whoop. It’s not like you have a lot to do after finishing most of the content. And the gear upgrade comes naturally by exploring the new content. As long as it’s not a few months grind like in other popular titles, I don’t see the problem.
A few days of playing for better gear and stronger character triggers 124 pages of complains? You people are sad. Especially given that the ring will drop/be obtainable by simply exploring the new dungeon..I’m missing the logic in all the arguments.
I have followed everything that ANet said about the game prior to it’s release and I don’t remember ever seeing anything about there not being any kind of character progression in the following years.
If that is the case and my characters stay the same for the entire life of the game, with all my love for GW I will drop it in a couple of months. I truly hope there will be more of a gear progression than this, , given that exotic gear is a joke to get.
Stop patting just the casuals on the head, give something for the more hardcore players too.
And can you actually say that you even need exotic gear to enjoy the content of the game? Hell, you can do all the dungeons and PVE in green gear just fine.
I don’t know when people have turn into big whiners.
It bothers me too that they promised that there will be no grinding and most of the game is grinding. But it doesn’t bother me because of the grind itself. I had the pleasure to grind for a legendary and I can say it was 99% a huge grind. No, it bothers me that they lied about it, that they didn’t live up to their promises.

But better gear? Hell yea.

I would rather have more traits, more fixes, runes to add to your character to make you stronger, ANYTHING but gear.

Trujillo Sammut.2307:

If arenanet actually cared about their players they would have a poll on this. But they’re too stubborn to realize 90% of their player base doesn’t want this but they’re going to force it down our throats.

I, for 1, am looking foward to the update and i’m sure there are many others (more than 10% as you stated); just seems the people who don’t want it (for some reason I cannot understand) are much more vocal about it.

Erebus Delirium.4892:

It makes the game healthier. You might even like it.

How does it make the game healthier? Why would anyone that bought it explicitly because it does not have vertical gear progression suddenly like it?

Erebus Delirium.4892:

But if you HATE it so much with all your blind passion, then go play another game.

Sure, one of the many other MMOs without a vertical gear progression system. Spoiler: There are none.

Sirge.8934:

But one more tier of gear is alright. We can live with it.

Erm… No?

AN Dev: “Hey guys, this patch introduces the last pieces for ascended gear, oh and btw. this is our new uber-ascended gear, you can live with just one more tier, right?” ….

Chris Whiteside said: “Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. "

There is no “progression” from exotic to legendary. They have the same stats. The only “reward” is aesthetic. I wonder what, In Mr. Whiteside’s mind, constitutes a “massive” jump between aesthetic rewards?

There is no reason to increase top end gear stats other than to provide a gear treadmill. Period. It’s that simple. This is a clear violation of the promised game philosophy that is obviously implicit in the fact that legendaries and exotics have the same stats. That “sense of progression” was supposed to end at a cap per character and one ether accepted a sense of accomplishment instead (for grinding aesthetics), or they find another game to play.

As far as providing that same gear over time in other areas in the game, how sly, Mr Whiteside. WoW does the same thing; when the new “best gear” comes out with new treadmill content, the old “best gear” is distributed down throughout the game over time so us scrubs can make ourselves happy with the hand-me-downs of the elite.

Also, either this “item progression initiative”, agony and ascended mechanic was developed recently and only in reaction to live game players getting exotics too fast and complaining about lack of progression, or it was an integral part of a huge expansion with supporting systems and features that has been in development for more than just a month or two. You and Linsey should have gotten your stories straight. You can’t have it both ways.

I suggest everyone re-read Linsey’s post. Look at how she uses the term “end-game”. She uses it in the traditional sense, over and over, talking about adding new “end game content” to “high end players”.

They have abandoned the manifesto and the original design philosophy and have been planning to do so since before launch. There’s simply no other conclusion that fits the facts.

Archernick.8260:

Hey I have an idea.

Why not wait until the update hits this weekend, and THEN feel free to freak out if you think it’s still just.

The way people freak out about these things is almost sad, if not mostly funny.

You don’t get it. The reason as to why so many people are freaking out is because we’ve already seen this in other games, we’ve seen what it does and we’ve already gone down this road. We don’t wanna see this again or go down this road again. We bought this game to avoid going down this road again. If this is how its gonna be, people are gonna be jumping ship again AGAIN I SAY!!!.

I’m glad that your business model is built with the option for me to not support your game further with my money to be able to continue playing, and I am certainly not going to support a company that sold me a product based on the above lie.

So what you’re saying is: Your goal is not to stop spending money on GW2. Your goal is to ensure a proper progression between rewarding companies that earn your money and not rewarding those that don’t. Wow, it sounds so much nicer that way, doesn’t it!

Wolfend.5287:

fixit.7189:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward.

Problem is, PvP will be effected. No, not sPvP if that’s what you are saying….since it has it’s own seperate gear sets. The problem is Wv3!!

Can you honestly say that masses of players with BiS Ascended items along with a buffed legendary weapon that does more dmg than exotics will not effect Wv3 in a very very large way? This gear becomes mandatory to play. It will break Wv3 and make it a pure gear check which is not cool.

I feel for WvW players, now the gear grind has begun.

“LF1M for roaming group, must have current tier Ascended weapon with crazy overpowered proc.”

Trujillo Sammut.2307:

If arenanet actually cared about their players they would have a poll on this. But they’re too stubborn to realize 90% of their player base doesn’t want this but they’re going to force it down our throats.

Well, it appears if the vocal 10% keeps it up, they’ll believe that we’re the minority and that this move is really the smart one. I love how Whiteside says it’s not another tier of armor, despite the fact that they clearly ARE making another set which is clearly in its own category. What other evidence do we need other than how it makes exotics and legendaries completely separate?

Also, do they even see how this will deem every piece of content irrelevant? Now NOBODY will go to Orr or even try to do any dungeon that isn’t that new shore. Congrats Anet, you not only lied to us about the basic fundamentals of the game, but also killed off an entire CONTINENT and every last dungeon for the sake of a tiny island which isn’t even an expansion.

Well, I’m a patient man. I guess I’ll just wait until they learn from the LOTRO developers. Hopefully they won’t be bullheaded about this like other companies out there and start insulting on the fanbase through “game journalism” sites. Anet always seems to be more receptive about these things, but with the way they mauled their own manifesto, I just don’t know anymore.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

Chris Whiteside said: “Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. "

There is no “progression” from exotic to legendary. They have the same stats. The only “reward” is aesthetic. I wonder what, In Mr. Whiteside’s mind, constitutes a “massive” jump between aesthetic rewards?

There is no reason to increase top end gear stats other than to provide a gear treadmill. Period. It’s that simple. This is a clear violation of the promised game philosophy that is obviously implicit in the fact that legendaries and exotics have the same stats. That “sense of progression” was supposed to end at a cap per character and one ether accepted a sense of accomplishment instead (for grinding aesthetics), or they find another game to play.

As far as providing that same gear over time in other areas in the game, how sly, Mr Whiteside. WoW does the same thing; when the new “best gear” comes out with new treadmill content, the old “best gear” is distributed down throughout the game over time so us scrubs can make ourselves happy with the hand-me-downs of the elite.

Also, either this “item progression initiative”, agony and ascended mechanic was developed recently and only in reaction to live game players getting exotics too fast and complaining about lack of progression, or it was an integral part of a huge expansion with supporting systems and features that has been in development for more than just a month or two. You and Linsey should have gotten your stories straight. You can’t have it both ways.

I suggest everyone re-read Linsey’s post. Look at how she uses the term “end-game”. She uses it in the traditional sense, over and over, talking about adding new “end game content” to “high end players”.

They have abandoned the manifesto and the original design philosophy and have been planning to do so since before launch. There’s simply no other conclusion that fits the facts.

I think they feel exotics are too easy to obtain..thus they had to create something to make legendary items seem actually legendary…making legendaries exotic gave people no reason to grind for them, making them one step higher and giving a way to get it gives people an end game.

noir.6392:

Who in their right minds doesn’t want their character to get more powerful? So what, you have to farm a little for better gear, big whoop. It’s not like you have a lot to do after finishing most of the content. And the gear upgrade comes naturally by exploring the new content. As long as it’s not a few months grind like in other popular titles, I don’t see the problem.
A few days of playing for better gear and stronger character triggers 124 pages of complains? You people are sad. Especially given that the ring will drop/be obtainable by simply exploring the new dungeon..I’m missing the logic in all the arguments.
I have followed everything that ANet said about the game prior to it’s release and I don’t remember ever seeing anything about there not being any kind of character progression in the following years.
If that is the case and my characters stay the same for the entire life of the game, with all my love for GW I will drop it in a couple of months. I truly hope there will be more of a gear progression than this, , given that exotic gear is a joke to get.
Stop patting just the casuals on the head, give something for the more hardcore players too.
And can you actually say that you even need exotic gear to enjoy the content of the game? Hell, you can do all the dungeons and PVE in green gear just fine.
I don’t know when people have turn into big whiners.
It bothers me too that they promised that there will be no grinding and most of the game is grinding. But it doesn’t bother me because of the grind itself. I had the pleasure to grind for a legendary and I can say it was 99% a huge grind. No, it bothers me that they lied about it, that they didn’t live up to their promises.

But better gear? Hell yea.

People who want to have the freedom to pick up the game and play it after a break don’t want their character to become “more powerful.”

The entire concept that your character becomes more powerful with higher stat gear is an illusion anyway. The content is still going to be designed around the stat cap, no matter how high the stat cap is. The only thing it does is make older content a little easier.

No, older content becoming easier is not something to be desired. That’s why ArenaNet designed their content scaling, after all.

If you do want to be chasing after new gear for the higher stats every few months, then that’s fine. You can do that in games that are designed that way. This game was specifically marketed as not following that model, though.

My first post.

Yeah, this sounds bad. In all honesty, I hate doing the dungeons but still want to get the “best” gear, stat-wise. So am I now just wasting my time doing the current dungeons as now there will be a gap between the exotics I can get there, and the (to be) boosted legendary items?

The agony system sounds annoying too – “proceed to the point of frustration then grind for additional Ascended gear… repeat”?

Maybe if they werent RAINBOW colored and all greatswords and lightsabers and more incentive for dual wielding classes..

I think i’ll just skip the ascended gear tier and wait until they release the full legendary gear tier with actual extra stats.

That’s honestly what it sounds like from this post.

You know guys, Have you ever considered that theses ‘’infusion slots’’ could just be perhaps % bonuses against certain enemy types along with agony resistance?
Like defensive infusion could be -3% dmg received from inquest and offensive could be +4% dmg against krait for example.
Of course it’s just a guess but it’s another way to look at something we don’t have the full details for yet.

noir.6392:

Who in their right minds doesn’t want their character to get more powerful?

Your character doesn’t get more powerful. Your numbers go up, and the enemy’s numbers go up just as much. Without adding Ascended equipment, new content would be designed and balanced based on the maximum player power level – a level 80 character in full Exotic gear. With Ascended equipment, the exact same new content will be designed and balanced based on the maximum player power level – a level 80 character in gear comprised of Exotics and as many Ascended pieces as there are available, until it’s entirely Ascended gear.

Your character doesn’t get more powerful. Your character is made weaker, and you have to grind for new equipment to make yourself as powerful as you were to start with.

This game was specifically marketed as not following that model, though.

Really? Because when I saw them at Comic Con over the last years…they never said they weren’t going to have gear progression…all they said was they wouldn’t have a treadmill or require large groups…everything would be 5 man.

Erebus Delirium.4892:

But if you HATE it so much with all your blind passion, then go play another game..

I’ll post this again.

Why-Boycotts-Fail-Where-Whining-Tantrums-Win

Watch that and then understand why people shouldn’t just leave for another game when they don’t like something.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.

Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores.

Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

Fail.

If you are going to do this, WvW should use pvp gear.

Primal Zed.9714:

Fayte.1803:

Primal Zed.9714:

Fayte.1803:

Primal Zed.9714:

Fayte.1803:

Hrm really? They specifically said there will NEVER be any increase in gear stats? Like you heard one of them say those exact words? Cause if they only mentioned something that sounded similar its not the same, as before the manifest is NOT a contract. They are free to change and add whatever content they want to the game. I mean they created Guildwars 2 they didn’t have us harping on them and look how great it turned out.

I never suggested that their manifesto is a contract, nor that they are somehow forbidden from changing the game as they see fit. In the same spirit, I am allowed to provide my feedback.

Yes, they did say that they won’t have higher-stat gear. Most recently reiterated (to my knowledge) in a blog post by Colin Johanson a few months before release: http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success

In my opinion, their single stat plateau without a gear treadmill is one of the things that makes Guild Wars 2 so great. Without that, I am much less interested in staying with this game in the long term. It might still be great (or greater!) for others, which is fine, just not for me.

Hrm yes I read that blog to, allow me to pull a part of it,

Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

They don’t need to make gear treadmills, they just now chose to do it, its optional, your not being forced to grind for it, and those that will might have a slight advantage over others, but a game the boasts the skill of a player this shouldn’t make a whole lot of difference right? Seriously you guys are blowing this way out of proportion.

Yes, they don’t need to make gear treadmills. Yes, they chose to do this. No, it is not optional – in fact they explicitly include a gating mechanic as part of the new gear in addition to the stats.

You’ll also note that they say the player shouldn’t need the latest gear – that the player would still be “just as powerful” without it. How is that not explicitly broken here?

How am I blowing it out of proportion? They said they wouldn’t do this. Now, they apparently are doing this. At what point have I exaggerated?

Yes, the percentage change in stats here is fairly small. It is not the percentage that actually matters, it is what the increase itself represents. As I said in my post addressed to Mr. Whiteside, if this is not an intentional implementation of gear treadmill, then what purpose does the increase in stats serve? If the difference truly is insignificant, then why increase the stat cap at all?

The increase in stats is simple, players wanted more end game content, or thats what was said, honestly though I could care less, I’m just glad they give a kitten to even give us more content, and yes another player can be just as powerful without ascended gear, keep in mind our individual builds are stat driven, you might have a few additional stat perks but in the long run it won’t decide the outcome of a skill driven battle.

Higher stats does not equal more end game content, nor are higher stats necessary for more end game content.

No one is upset about the addition of new content here – in fact, as I said to Mr. Whiteside, I’m sure most if not all people here are very pleased to be getting new content this month.

A player with exotic gear cannot be just as powerful as a player with ascended gear. It is mathematically impossible. As demonstrated in their example of an ascended item alongside a level 80 exotic item, ascended items have a higher stat cap.

If the difference in stats is truly insignificant, why did they add it at all? (Yes, I did ask this question already, and you did already answer, but as I address in my first paragraph here your answer is nonsensical.)

Just what is your point here?

Your arguing and using ascended stats as an example even thought the actual content has yet to be released? Everything is only based on assumptions given by the little bit of info that was fed to us, so which statement is nonsensical again? And in a skillbased game power isn’t everything, just cause someone is decked out in better gear doesn’t mean they will have some advantage over another player, your basically just throwing around numbers, it will be the same when the ascended gear is released.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Chris, with all due respect, what you are describing is precisely a gear treadmill. First you get exotics, then ascended, then legendary. Then an expansion comes out. Then you do this again, at a higher level, going after better gear. That’s a gear treadmill. Players that now have exotics will no longer have the BIS gear. How do they get better gear? Step on the treadmill….

Also, “exciting rewards” does not have to mean better gear. Plenty of suggestions have been made.

pregnable.1954:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.

Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores.

Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

Fail.

If you are going to do this, WvW should use pvp gear.

That I agree on. All PvP’ers should be in the same gear.

Always.

If ascended gear had been available right away no one would shell out the cash/tokens to get the Exotics like many of us already have now. I have 5 80s all geared out in Exotics. I thought this was a good idea since I wasn’t expecting there to come another tier of gear so I didn’t think I’d have to “farm” for better stats once more.

Now the goal of getting Cultural and legendaries feel even further away since you can’t get to “farming” those once you get your exotics or whatever your desired level of gear is.

BatteryBiscuits.1573:

You know guys, Have you ever considered that theses ‘’infusion slots’’ could just be perhaps % bonuses against certain enemy types along with agony resistance?
Like defensive infusion could be -3% dmg received from inquest and offensive could be +4% dmg against krait for example.
Of course it’s just a guess but it’s another way to look at something we don’t have the full details for yet.

It doesn’t matter what goes in the infusion slots. The fact is that even notwithstanding the infusion/agony mechanic, the ascended gear has higher stat allocation than level 80 exotic gear. That is the information we have.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/