Guild Wars 2

It’s not that hard to keep everyone happy, for starters they could stop this trend of hiding away the best content in instanced dungeons and stick to the format of open world multi-player experiences. I really don’t mind running a dungeon once but they get boring real quick once you get them into farm status.

The open world let’s all players participate and the randomness of the mix of players at hand always makes the encounter different.

I think the strength of this game is in the spontaneous open world grouping that takes place without the need for dungeon finders or the need to even be in an active endgame capable guild.

For the casual this lets them log-in and have an endgame like massively multiplayer experience, they can just jump in do an event or two without waiting around to get picked up by a group and then log-out. So they need to stop trying to build on a features that’s popular in that other game and instead build on the strength of what they created in this game.

Currently the best gear can be obtained regardless of how you like to play the game if dungeons are your thing or not. You can craft for it, buy it with karma accumulated through world events or run dungeons and I’d hate to see the game lose that endgame flexibility, that’s how you keep everyone happy.

So providing multiple paths to the same goal is key, if you’re going to put progression in for the dungeon runners then put a path to progression in the game for the ones that have come to enjoy the open world massively multiplayer aspects of this game. That’s how you keep everyone happy …Choice!

And Dev’s, if that’s the plan let’s hear about it!!!!!

Rin.1046:

Swagger.1459:

since this is the hot and poppin’ thread…

Swagger.1459:

considering the new gear circumstances, i personally feel it would be decent of arenanet/ncsoft to reimburse players their gem, gold and/or karma expenditures or provide free ascended equipment upgrades for those who purchased any exotic gear.

i have enjoyed many aspects of the game, spent a considerable amount of $ to support it and i’m not opposed to gear progression (except when the words “mystic forge” are used), but i never would have invested in 2nd tier gear, skins, runes, order gear, transmutaions and so on, had i know about ascended gear.

i know that i’m not in this boat alone, so hopefully the devs make the right decisions while going foward with ascended gear for their customers.

thanks for reading

edit- not attemting to start a riot with this post, just trying to present a fair compromise.

I agree. I didn’t spend any money on Masterwork gear and now that Exotics are essentially in the same class, I feel I have wasted a lot of gold. Not completely of course, because I still have the skins, but I did spend a lot of gold purely for the stats I wanted. The blog did mention complimentary Ascended and Legendaries, so here’s hoping we get compensated a little.

i personally would have purchased all rare gear and used it until i had full sets of ascended stuff. after that i would have started the process of purchasing runes, skins, order gear, transmutations and such.

complimentary is great of them but it do not think it will compensate for wasted time, $ and game loot.

i like this game and am hoping that arenanet will make the right decisions so it becomes a win/win situation for all parties inviolved.

There isn’t any gear progression.The casual players got full exotic gear while only hardest of the hardcore got a legendary so they created something in the middle that would act as a threshold.Do research before you listen to rumors and complainers.
-Thread closed

There is no difference between exotics and legendaries as they exist today other than looks. How will you make something in the middle? A lil’ better looking item? <lol>

The easiest and simplest way to please the nublet crybabies was to add legendaries to drop in the fractal of the mists dungeon in an almost impossible to attain level. Just give those items new names and some new shaders. That will give them the feeling of achievement. They will keep grinding it till they get it. No power creep, no gear grind, everyone happy.

But, no. We need to make a WOW clone sooner or later.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

I don’t think that player input had anything to do with this. A survey of the evidence at hand, IMO, indicates this was just a top down decision made by a few who simply believe that stat progression (power creep) is a fundamental MMOG requirement.

I don’t know if they came into power at ANET recently or if the whole “manifesto” thing was a con job from day one, but there’s really no way that live-game forum caterwauling by a few unsatisfied gear-treadmillers generated content that obviously has been in the works since before launch.

I agree. I believe, this was in the making for a while and was driven down by some out-of-touch 1980s gamer that climbed the corporate ladder at NC. The franchise just died for me because of the treadmill concept alone.

If you really look closely, there is really nothing going in as positive for a new MMO like GW2 other than looks. Combat is linear, lore is pretty much BS, personal storyline is crap, dynamic events tanked. Only thing that made real sense that you could play the game on and off without focusing much on gear accumulation but, by understanding the class, skill synergies and improving your playstyle while trying various weapons and setups. Now, that is some great stuff. If I were to look for lore, I’d rather play LOTRO. If I want a loot based game, I’d pick Diablo, If I am a raid nut, I will pick WOW, if I want gear grind, I’ll play Lineage or AION. Why on earth would I play GW2 if its not for it being a simply skill based game that does not have gear grind?

tkalamba.2541:

Urxx.6840:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

But all infusions do is negate agony

No I think that’s the effect all the types of infusions have, but they have other effects as well. If all they did was to negate or mitigate agony, what would the point be in having different types (offensive, defensive, omni)?

Lindsay Murdock:

Infusions are a special new type of Upgrade Component that can only be slotted into special Infusion slots on gear.
There are multiple types of Infusions and Infusion slots. In November, we’ll introduce Offensive, Defensive, and Omni Infusions of Fine rarity from new Mystic Forge recipes. Infusion upgrade types must be paired with their like slot, with the exception of the rare and versatile Omni Infusions which can be slotted into any type of Infusion slot.
For now, Infusions slots can only be found in gear of a new rarity type: Ascended.

They are only releasing the defensive Infusions this expansion, other Infusions will be available at future releases, and one would assume Offensive allows you to damage a mob and Omni would provide both mitigation from Agony, and the ability to hurt the mob.

thats what i was thinking

“Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill.”

Moving from one tier, to another, is a GEAR TREADMILL…It doesn’t matter how minor the jump is, the next tier will always be the carrot on the stick people keep chasing after. So many people feel like the manifesto and philosophy is being completely blown off and that ya’ll are backing down, and basically lied to us. Alternative paths to post-80 progression is the route to go, adding new tiers of gear in any form is enormously disappointing and disheartening, as people left their previous games to come here and support a game that would not turn into a standard old fashioned MMO walking the same tired path, and that’s the path you guys are beginning to choose for GW2 so it’s only a matter of time til people look elsewhere to newer titles for the innovation and equally as important developers who keep their promises.

sireuh.3870:

A guy said this on another forum

A few quotes from 3 months back about gearing:

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet

Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”
– Colin Johanson

What a crock of kitten. Way to mislead your player base with rhetoric and now back peddling in the latest statements. If I had known this 5 months ago, I wouldn’t have bought this game in the first place. I was lied to and gaining the trust back of your customer base is one of the hardest things to do.

It is still against the vision they have sold us.

We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

He does not say their won´t be new tiers. He just tells us that it won´t be every 3 months.
And after that move I will not give them the benefit of the doubt.
Fool me once: your fault. Fool me twice: my fault. I won´t do that to myself.
I am out. It is disheartening that a studio which had a clear communicated vision leaves it behind just 3 months into the game.

I hope their will be a developer who stays true to his vision regardless of some people who try his game and don´t like it. That´s the point to me: I do not care of the actual implementation of the new tier, but the lies I have been told before.

The QQ in this thread, from both sides, is legendary. There should be a new legendary weapon based on this thread and it should be called “QQ’ers Lament”.

I’m neither for or against this. I’m ok with this because they already have a massive grind to get legendarys, so don’t see the harm in adding a gear progression grind (hint: the grind, no matter what it is, is strong in this game). I have my doubts about this because we don’t have enough inventory/bank space for all this crap – I had 4 armor sets in GW1 for my ranger, which was no problem, because EVERY SINGLE material had a collection for it – we are missing our collection for rare mats. GW1 also didn’t have mystic forge consumables, WvW blueprints, the amount of runes GW2 has, sigils, etc. I also had more than enough bank space at the end of GW1 – I’m not saying we won’t be giving increased inventory/bank space as this game continues on, but currently (without buying an additional finite number of bank slots) we simply do not have enough room for multiple sets of armor/weapons let alone 4 sets of armor. I am not going to worry about the ascended gear making current gear obsolete just yet – I would like to see how it goes when the update goes live. The inventory space as the game grows is a huge concern for me though. While GW1 didn’t have it, I would fully support a armor/weapon skin locker like we have in PvP. They could just make it so that when you earn the armor/weapon, you unlock the skin as a transmute similar to that of the HoM skins.

Urxx.6840:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

But all infusions do is negate agony

No I think that’s the effect all the types of infusions have, but they have other effects as well. If all they did was to negate or mitigate agony, what would the point be in having different types (offensive, defensive, omni)?

Lindsay Murdock:

Infusions are a special new type of Upgrade Component that can only be slotted into special Infusion slots on gear.
There are multiple types of Infusions and Infusion slots. In November, we’ll introduce Offensive, Defensive, and Omni Infusions of Fine rarity from new Mystic Forge recipes. Infusion upgrade types must be paired with their like slot, with the exception of the rare and versatile Omni Infusions which can be slotted into any type of Infusion slot.
For now, Infusions slots can only be found in gear of a new rarity type: Ascended.

Lol really, why no one read this:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusion

the only information we can gather is that agony resistance is a sideeffect of the infusion upgrade, regardless if it is offensive , defensive or omni.

They have cleared nothing about what this infusion can boost our items,so stop to say that is only for fractal because only devs know this!
And if this boost can be used to all the Gw2 content like world exploration and WvW, the previous content will be CUT DOWN in terms of power, they become worthless.(exotic items and all the old upgrades too)
because an ascent item + infusion >> stronger then an exotic item + rune\sigil\jewel.

sireuh.3870:

A guy said this on another forum

A few quotes from 3 months back about gearing:

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet

Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”
– Colin Johanson

they just told a mountain of lies.

I will not give a penny to ArenaNet

My 2 Cents: Make infusion slot as an add-on and leave the stats untouched. Change the status of the gear to ascended once it has been infused. Do not make it mandatory for players,if we want to stay on par with people who have ascended gears(stats wise). And Anet can make whatever zone/dungeon that make use of the infusion feature without forcing everyone to grind for ascended gear if they do not want.

tkalamba.2541:

Urxx.6840:

tkalamba.2541:

Urxx.6840:

tkalamba.2541:

But Agony is limited to only a single dungeon, so the condition is already incredibly limited, and only kicks in after you progress to a certain point. It is entirely possible to experience the entirety of the dungeon without having to deal with agony.

Again, that’s the situation we will have now. But they already said they will keep expanding the infusion system, and that implies they will make it more and more relevant, otherwise why introduce it and a whole new rarity tier in the first place?

To provide options in end game content. It’s an option you can choose to do that won’t effect any other aspect of the game. They never said ALL future content will have to deal with Infusions.

But then why oppose the fact exotic gear receives an infusion slot and you trash the whole ascended concept?

You still have your options and they keep their word about the fact exotics are and remain the most powerful items.

Why make the hard work of a lot of people that have geared up several toons obsolete? That’s the base of the threadmill system which most despise and is going to put ArenNet against Wow, which does these thing a lot better because they had 8 years to perfect their threadmill system.

There is still the acquisition gap between Exotic and Legendary. You can get your full set of Exotic gear at 80 within a few days after hitting max level, but will take forever to get a Legendary.

Ascended gives players something to work towards between Exotic and Legendary, it closes the gap in acquisition time. Exotic gear is flawed, its too easily acquired. They wanted something that players in the end game could work towards getting as a final step. This in turn gives the end game some aspect of length vs. having the final gear so quickly. You get all your exotic, then what do you do? Sure you can explore, you can go for new skins but alot of people already rushed for map completion, and dungeons can get boring. This gives you yet another option to work towards. If Exotics took longer to get, they wouldn’t have had to add these items. Besides, with the slow trickle of Ascended items being released, most players wouldnt have an issue of obtaining some of it.

This is like whining about [insert MMO here] releasing new gear with every content patch. If you buy a game that is marketed as a game without horizontal progression and expect anything different you have a problem with logic.

How hard it is to understand that those of us who bought this game because we were promised something but now we get the exact same crap we’re so tired of are a little angry and disappointed?

I don’t care how hard it is to get it or how easy it is, I’ve been following GW2 for a long time and every time the subject of gear progression in terms of numerical improvement came on the table it was categorically denied by the developers. Guild Wars 2 will never have traditional gear progression other MMOs have.

In this blog post I am told there will be a new tier of gear with “slightly” better stats. I don’t care if it’s +1 or +100, +1 is still larger than zero. It doesn’t matter if the introduction of this new tier will be slow or fast. Sooner or later current gear will be obsolete.

Every rational person with basic capability of logical thinking will come to the same conclusion. I was promised A and someone wants to give me B. Either I was mistaken or someone lied to me.

It’s quite obvious we were lied to and the argument about acquiring legendaries doesn’t hold water either. New tier of gear that takes more time/effort to get is fine by me as long as it has the exact same stat budget as current exotics. This is clearly not the case in the situation we are in.

If you want statistical gear progression go and play other games, there are a bunch of very good ones. Or don’t because this one is clearly becoming one of them.

I’ll let my wallet speak for me and since there is no subscription to cancel I’ll say “So long and thanks for all the Quaggans” to the BLTC.

Magiofdeath.2745:

The QQ in this thread, from both sides, is legendary. There should be a new legendary weapon based on this thread and it should be called “QQ’ers Lament”.

I’m neither for or against this. I’m ok with this because they already have a massive grind to get legendarys, so don’t see the harm in adding a gear progression grind (hint: the grind, no matter what it is, is strong in this game). I have my doubts about this because we don’t have enough inventory/bank space for all this crap – I had 4 armor sets in GW1 for my ranger, which was no problem, because EVERY SINGLE material had a collection for it – we are missing our collection for rare mats. GW1 also didn’t have mystic forge consumables, WvW blueprints, the amount of runes GW2 has, sigils, etc. I also had more than enough bank space at the end of GW1 – I’m not saying we won’t be giving increased inventory/bank space as this game continues on, but currently (without buying an additional finite number of bank slots) we simply do not have enough room for multiple sets of armor/weapons let alone 4 sets of armor. I am not going to worry about the ascended gear making current gear obsolete just yet – I would like to see how it goes when the update goes live. The inventory space as the game grows is a huge concern for me though. While GW1 didn’t have it, I would fully support a armor/weapon skin locker like we have in PvP. They could just make it so that when you earn the armor/weapon, you unlock the skin as a transmute similar to that of the HoM skins.

Comedy material, so there’s more stuff to grind for in GW2 now and you’re fine with adding more like a gear-grind?

And stop QQing about bank space please, you know… buy a few gems and unlock more bank slots – that’s how this game is supposed to be funded long term (you played GW1 – really?)

Completely bad idea. They’ve repeatedly thrown out everything they did well in Guild Wars 1, and everything they promised in the manifesto. it’s just getting worse.

Perfectly happy with a cosmetic gear grind like really who the hell wants to see 25 k condtions in this game might work good for a shadow bolt in incin but in this game really you guys wana see that its pure bunkeness it why wow player base left soon to be swtor player base none like to know they can go out and get one shoted by a gear freak that kitten is truely pathetic and its been the same old kitten for 7 year just cuzz thi sgame is free pls pls pls wow boys and other mmos boys dont come ruin a good thing.

Ganzo.5079:

Urxx.6840:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

But all infusions do is negate agony

No I think that’s the effect all the types of infusions have, but they have other effects as well. If all they did was to negate or mitigate agony, what would the point be in having different types (offensive, defensive, omni)?

Lindsay Murdock:

Infusions are a special new type of Upgrade Component that can only be slotted into special Infusion slots on gear.
There are multiple types of Infusions and Infusion slots. In November, we’ll introduce Offensive, Defensive, and Omni Infusions of Fine rarity from new Mystic Forge recipes. Infusion upgrade types must be paired with their like slot, with the exception of the rare and versatile Omni Infusions which can be slotted into any type of Infusion slot.
For now, Infusions slots can only be found in gear of a new rarity type: Ascended.

Lol really, why noi one read this:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusion

the only information we can gather is that agony resistance is a sideeffect of the infusion upgrade, regardless if it is offensive , defensive or omni.

They have cleared nothing about what this infusion can boost our items,so stop to say that is only for fractal because only devs know this!
And if this boost can be used to all the Gw2 content like world exploration and WvW, old the previous content will be CUT DOWN in power, they become worthless.(items and all the old upgrades too)
because an ascent item + infusion >> stronger then an exotic item + rune\sigil\jewel.

But if I am right and all Infusion do is effect the conditions for fractal ((and dungeons like it)) with Offensive Infusions allowing you to damage a mob and Omni Infusions provide both mitigation from Agony, and the ability to hurt the mob.

than outside of that content Ascended is still to pigon holed for most builds

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Ganzo.5079:

Urxx.6840:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

But all infusions do is negate agony

No I think that’s the effect all the types of infusions have, but they have other effects as well. If all they did was to negate or mitigate agony, what would the point be in having different types (offensive, defensive, omni)?

Lindsay Murdock:

Infusions are a special new type of Upgrade Component that can only be slotted into special Infusion slots on gear.
There are multiple types of Infusions and Infusion slots. In November, we’ll introduce Offensive, Defensive, and Omni Infusions of Fine rarity from new Mystic Forge recipes. Infusion upgrade types must be paired with their like slot, with the exception of the rare and versatile Omni Infusions which can be slotted into any type of Infusion slot.
For now, Infusions slots can only be found in gear of a new rarity type: Ascended.

Lol really, why noi one read this:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusion

the only information we can gather is that agony resistance is a sideeffect of the infusion upgrade, regardless if it is offensive , defensive or omni.

They have cleared nothing about what this infusion can boost our items,so stop to say that is only for fractal because only devs know this!
And if this boost can be used to all the Gw2 content like world exploration and WvW, old the previous content will be CUT DOWN in power, they become worthless.(items and all the old upgrades too)
because an ascent item + infusion >> stronger then an exotic item + rune\sigil\jewel.

But if I am right and all Infusion do is effect the conditions for fractal ((and dungeons like it)) with Offensive Infusions allowing you to damage a mob and Omni Infusions provide both mitigation from Agony, and the ability to hurt the mob.

than outside of that content Ascended is still to pigon holed for most builds

If someone from above can clarify this little mess, instead of playing hide and seek or do useless blogpost that only need to feed the anger, maybe we can cancel some rage point to this thread. or not?

A question for everyone. How does a company make a dynamic game with a statically requested system?

If a new PVE map/dungeon was released with having no real change to gameplay was released, who would play it? It would be visited for a 1 time run through on most cases, and its the truth. If it has nothing new to offer, why bother? Who would use it?

Whether you agree or disagree with this change or are even on the fence about it, one thing is clear… It is a change in policy 3 months in.

I personally will wait and see, but initially feel this is likely to be a mistake and a disappointing break of what was outlined as key features of GW2 leading up to launch.

Hell they dont even have to add new Dungeons Just new “Fractals” to the Dungeon that thay already have

Caran.3217:

Swagger.1459:

Caran.3217:

Swagger.1459:

since this is the hot and poppin’ thread…

Swagger.1459:

considering the new gear circumstances, i personally feel it would be decent of arenanet/ncsoft to reimburse players their gem, gold and/or karma expenditures or provide free ascended equipment upgrades for those who purchased any exotic gear.

i have enjoyed many aspects of the game, spent a considerable amount of $ to support it and i’m not opposed to gear progression (except when the words “mystic forge” are used), but i never would have invested in 2nd tier gear, skins, runes, order gear, transmutaions and so on, had i know about ascended gear.

i know that i’m not in this boat alone, so hopefully the devs make the right decisions while going foward with ascended gear for their customers.

thanks for reading

edit- not attemting to start a riot with this post, just trying to present a fair compromise.

Wrong solution, not gonna happen. There are way better suggestions in the last 10 pages.

Edit: Just like the one posted above

i understand there may be some different suggestions but arenanet will go foward with ascended gear so that leaves very few options for those who have invested a lot time, $ and game currency.

If they do go forward with that crap idea introducing gear grind, making my time and money investment so far obsolete, by breaking their promise what sold me on the game in the first place – i have only one option left. No more of my money for that company.

I enjoyed the game a lot so far and that last option would make me sad, but i will not keep supporting a scam.

i don’t mind some gear progression but i am a lot more on your side of things.

if ascended stuff goes foward then the right thing to do is reset players currencies or offer free upgrades. by doing so the devs will save face and show their customers they want to keep their business.

also, hopefully this new gear will help protect us from the 40k insta death hits by dungeon critters as an added bonus

Ouch I just read this.

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet

That really hurts as a player. I believed this idea. I sit in full exotics minus underwater and back. I thought I was done. I was gonna start working on my Legendary. Guess Not.

/sad

Doesn’t really matter. You will either stop playing or keep playing. They have already made the decision that it will not impact them negatively finacially. Thier hope is that it will bring in more people, keep some people who would have left from leaving, and that will offset those that leave.

I am sure they knew that there would be a level of dissent. I am sure they surmised that they would lose players. I am sure they took all this into account and decided that the ones they throw under the bus would not impact thier bottomline as much as sticking to thier original plan.

If you are disappointed and quit, they don’t really care, you have already been factored in and accounted for.

juanticimo.2640:

Ouch I just read this.

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet

That really hurts as a player. I believed this idea. I sit in full exotics minus underwater and back. I thought I was done. I was gonna start working on my Legendary. Guess Not.

/sad

it really depends on what infusion’s actually do as to wether this is still true or not.

A fool with a tool is still a fool. Ascended or Exotic or Rare, a gear grinder focuses on grinding without focusing on understanding the class or on improving his or her skill in playing the class.

I can’t imagine why anyone with simple brain would not understand that gear grinding community simply does not mix well with GW community where people are looking for more skill based gameplay. Is this truly the MMO effect that is killing this franchise?

xtorma.1283:

[…]
If you are disappointed and quit, they don’t really care, you have already been factored in and accounted for.

Maybe so but then why did they act like if they are surprised about the level of negative response? Not that I disagree on that they won’t defer that change now I just don’t believe they already counted in the players leaving over this. Obviously they don’t want anyone to leave.

another thing it seems the Fractal Dungeon can be done at any level as much like every other aspect of the mist it scales you up to level 80

What dose that say aboutthis content

“Unlike the other dungeons, your party can be any level. We’ve employed World vs. World-style sidekicking to make this dungeon accessible to all players. But keep in mind, our aim was to challenge level 80 players. Going in at low levels is not for the faint of heart!” https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/leah-rivera-on-the-new-fractals-of-the-mist-dungeon/?utm_source=client

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.” -Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet

We really need to have all available information released on these new changes. Release all of the stats on all of the new Ascended gear, and let us know exactly what needs to be done to obtain them.

mantrunks.4810:

A question for everyone. How does a company make a dynamic game with a statically requested system?

If a new PVE map/dungeon was released with having no real change to gameplay was released, who would play it? It would be visited for a 1 time run through on most cases, and its the truth. If it has nothing new to offer, why bother? Who would use it?

According to your logic, nobody is playing League of Legends or any other game that is based on player skills.

Change for the sake of change is a bad thing and it usually bites you in the rear. I mean no disrespect but I guess you are a member of younger generation. Let me tell you something, some of us played games on 8 bit machines for years because the gameplay was fun and engaging. Do you really have to have a carrot on a stick to play the game? Wouldn’t it be nice to play a game because it is fun to play?

I know, Utopian concept.

I haven’t read all 147 pages of posts, so apologies if this has already been suggested before:

ANet is a company. Numbers talk to them. At this point, we can reasonably expect Ascended items to make their way into the update this weekend and we may better illustrate our disapproval through actions.

For those who are not happy with the stat increase, why don’t we decide on a day where no one logs into the game for a day? A weekend day (say Saturday Nov 24, one week after the content update, starting GMT 0:00 for 24 hours) would have the largest impact as player logins are highest. The benefits are two-fold:
1) For those claiming that this direction alienates a majority of the playerbase, ANet will have some concrete numbers to work with. It could be the case that much of what we see here is grandstanding and we are all happily chasing giant crabs to care, or ANet might see a 50% drop in playerbase for that period.
2) Talk is cheap. If we all feel as strongly about this as the forum posts suggest, we need to do more than complain.

This is only a suggestion and we should decide on its merits or lack-thereof after this weekend once we have a better idea of how frequently Ascended loop drops and what the Infusions are.

Just some thoughts.

ok at least 90% of us have heard about and/or read about the new ascended gear and dungeon they are implementing. MOST of the responses have been negative and frankly… I AGREE WITH ALL THOSE NEGATIVE RESPONSES. I am playing this game SPECIFICALLY because its not all about gear. I HAAATE the idea of segregating casual players from the hardcore and handicapping the casual guys because the kid that has no job or has a lot more time to play gets to faceroll u cuz his gear is tier 15 and yours is tier 3. its what made me bounce from mmo to mmo for the past 8 years. there are PLENTY of ways to add content WITHOUT player segregation.

HOWEVER……

here are two quotes out of Linsey Murdocks announcement of the upcoming content followed by my assessments…

“We have always worked hard to create a sense of satisfying progression rather than gear grind and this new item progression initiative is no exception. By adding challenging new combat mechanics to end-game content and ways to mitigate those mechanics through gear progression for high-end players, we can add personal progression without making the game feel like an endless treadmill of gear that is just out of your reach”

-ok…guys…this LITERALLY means they are WELL AWARE of the treadmill situation and are STILL avoiding it at all costs as promised. we still have yet to hear the details of “infusion”. we have no clue if this will affect us in pvp (from the above quote…probably not) for all u pvp fans which include me…and lets just break that quote down…NOT LOOKING TO MAKE IT A GRIND is what was said.

another quote…

“Infusions are a special new type of Upgrade Component that can only be slotted into special Infusion slots on gear.”

“For now, Infusions slots can only be found in gear of a new rarity type: Ascended.”

-GUESS WHAT?! theyve left all the room in the world to make exotics/legendaries available for infusion IF NEED BE by saying “FOR NOW, this will only be availiable on ascended gear”.

just relax guys. from what was stated… all the work u put in for your exotics and legendaries wont necessarily make them obsolete. all we gotta do is just see how the patch plays out and im quite confident that the appropriate adjustments will be made to even everything out. we all know new games need tweaking to polish out. just mellow out and keep enjoying the outstanding product Anet has produced!!!

xtorma.1283:

Doesn’t really matter. You will either stop playing or keep playing. They have already made the decision that it will not impact them negatively finacially. Thier hope is that it will bring in more people, keep some people who would have left from leaving, and that will offset those that leave.

I am sure they knew that there would be a level of dissent. I am sure they surmised that they would lose players. I am sure they took all this into account and decided that the ones they throw under the bus would not impact thier bottomline as much as sticking to thier original plan.

If you are disappointed and quit, they don’t really care, you have already been factored in and accounted for.

Not sure they have factored in the time rich/cash poor V time poor/cash rich and the preferred style of play and tendency to spend money in cash shop.

I do remember the raider kiddies giving out a lot of grief to people who bought the flying mount from the cash shop instead of "earning"it (haha) by doing dungeons.

I am starting to feel a bit sorry for the devs. I think they have been the victim of group think and have ended up in Alberkerky.

velmeister.4187:

A fool with a tool is still a fool. Ascended or Exotic or Rare, a gear grinder focuses on grinding without focusing on understanding the class or on improving his or her skill in playing the class.

I can’t imagine why anyone with simple brain would not understand that gear grinding community simply does not mix well with GW community where people are looking for more skill based gameplay. Is this truly the MMO effect that is killing this franchise?

The new gear won’t effect skill, and will not effect anyones ability to compete in WvW

As much as I dislike the sound of the agony mechanic (sounds like a lazy gear > skill mechanic to slow people’s progress), I do not understand why ascended gear has to be a new tier.
We already have blue, green and yellow tiers which become obsolete once you acquire exotics. Why not begin to make equal tiers to satisfy different niches?

Exotics would continue to have the upgrade slot for customisation, while ascended gear would have fixed stats but have an infusion slot. Neither type becomes obsolete and just increases the potential item pool.
Legendary’s could have customisation slot and infusion slot.

All 3 tiers would have equal max stats. Exotics and ascended would fill different niches and legendary’s would be the best of both.

Ravenblade.7685:

xtorma.1283:

[…]
If you are disappointed and quit, they don’t really care, you have already been factored in and accounted for.

Maybe so but then why did they act like if they are surprised about the level of negative response? Not that I disagree on that they won’t defer that change now I just don’t believe they already counted in the players leaving over this. Obviously they don’t want anyone to leave.

Classic damage control. They are trying to string out as many of those on the edge as they can, and hope they forget about it once those that are in dissent filter away.

“Ascended gear works a little bit differently than other gear types. The stats and functionality normally added to gear through upgrade components are actually built into Ascended items. Instead of upgrade slots, Ascended gear has Infusion slots, and rarer versions of the items also come with additional Agony Resistance built into them. Players will be able to acquire Ascended Rings in the Fractals of the Mists dungeon, and Ascended items worn on the back can be acquired through special Mystic Forge recipes.”

right so this bit right here make’s it sound like its exactly what i said befor Ascended is far more pigonholed.

“pgrade components are actually built into Ascended items. Instead of upgrade slots”

tl;dr calm down ppl. It isn’t really much of a treadmill nor do they intend it to me.

tkalamba.2541:

Urxx.6840:

tkalamba.2541:

Urxx.6840:

tkalamba.2541:

But Agony is limited to only a single dungeon, so the condition is already incredibly limited, and only kicks in after you progress to a certain point. It is entirely possible to experience the entirety of the dungeon without having to deal with agony.

Again, that’s the situation we will have now. But they already said they will keep expanding the infusion system, and that implies they will make it more and more relevant, otherwise why introduce it and a whole new rarity tier in the first place?

To provide options in end game content. It’s an option you can choose to do that won’t effect any other aspect of the game. They never said ALL future content will have to deal with Infusions.

But then why oppose the fact exotic gear receives an infusion slot and you trash the whole ascended concept?

You still have your options and they keep their word about the fact exotics are and remain the most powerful items.

Why make the hard work of a lot of people that have geared up several toons obsolete? That’s the base of the threadmill system which most despise and is going to put ArenNet against Wow, which does these thing a lot better because they had 8 years to perfect their threadmill system.

There is still the acquisition gap between Exotic and Legendary. You can get your full set of Exotic gear at 80 within a few days after hitting max level, but will take forever to get a Legendary.

Ascended gives players something to work towards between Exotic and Legendary, it closes the gap in acquisition time. Exotic gear is flawed, its too easily acquired. They wanted something that players in the end game could work towards getting as a final step. This in turn gives the end game some aspect of length vs. having the final gear so quickly. You get all your exotic, then what do you do? Sure you can explore, you can go for new skins but alot of people already rushed for map completion, and dungeons can get boring. This gives you yet another option to work towards. If Exotics took longer to get, they wouldn’t have had to add these items. Besides, with the slow trickle of Ascended items being released, most players wouldnt have an issue of obtaining some of it.

The acquisition gap is an after-the-fact excuse to try and calm the anger on the forums over this announcement. Legendary weapons are difficult to get because they’re supposed to be…..they’re legendary.

No matter how it gets spun the release of this armor with superior stats on it is exactly what they stated would not happen. There is absolutely zero reason why ascension and infusion couldn’t be introduced in a similar fashion to GW1. This patch should have seen the release of new armor/weapon skins and possibly the beginning of legendary armor.

Polluxor.5970:

Why aren’t ascended items just like exotics in stats?

I would really like to know the reason for this.

This is the real question that most people are missing. Everything is superfluous except this question.

All they need to do to fix this kerfuffle is change the plan and make ascended and legendary items exactly the same stat-wise as exotics.

Stick infusions on ascended items and keep legendaries just for looks.

Boom. Problem solved!

Yams.3859:

For those who are not happy with the stat increase, why don’t we decide on a day where no one logs into the game for a day?

A day? I’m just not logging in. Period. If this change goes through, I’m never logging in again.

xtorma.1283:

Doesn’t really matter. You will either stop playing or keep playing. They have already made the decision that it will not impact them negatively finacially. Thier hope is that it will bring in more people, keep some people who would have left from leaving, and that will offset those that leave.

I am sure they knew that there would be a level of dissent. I am sure they surmised that they would lose players. I am sure they took all this into account and decided that the ones they throw under the bus would not impact thier bottomline as much as sticking to thier original plan.

If you are disappointed and quit, they don’t really care, you have already been factored in and accounted for.

Hahaha, yes sure thing because they’re so wise and can’t make massive mistakes. Flip back a page or two and find the post with the link to the LotRO Devs admitting total failure with a new game concept/mechanic, after they lost a lot of their playerbase and had to go F2P. So much for ‘accounting for’ lmao.

Principe I.1492:

sireuh.3870:

A guy said this on another forum

A few quotes from 3 months back about gearing:

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet

Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”
– Colin Johanson

they just told a mountain of lies.

I will not give a penny to ArenaNet

No…you don’t know if they lied yet. Read what they said:

If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game.

They only promised that items that take an unrealistic amount of time to acquire will not have statistical advantages. Now ask yourself, do you know that Ascended items will take an unrealistic time for most players to acquire? No, you don’t. For all we know, Ascended items may take around the same time to acquire as exotics.

Legendary items are clearly what they are talking about in the quote above. They actually DO take a ridiculous amount of time and dedication to acquire, and as they said, they are only differentiated by appearance.

So long as Ascended items can be acquired in a reasonable amount of time, then no promises have been broken.

Yams.3859:

I haven’t read all 147 pages of posts, so apologies if this has already been suggested before:

ANet is a company. Numbers talk to them. At this point, we can reasonably expect Ascended items to make their way into the update this weekend and we may better illustrate our disapproval through actions.

For those who are not happy with the stat increase, why don’t we decide on a day where no one logs into the game for a day? A weekend day (say Saturday Nov 24, one week after the content update, starting GMT 0:00 for 24 hours) would have the largest impact as player logins are highest. The benefits are two-fold:
1) For those claiming that this direction alienates a majority of the playerbase, ANet will have some concrete numbers to work with. It could be the case that much of what we see here is grandstanding and we are all happily chasing giant crabs to care, or ANet might see a 50% drop in playerbase for that period.
2) Talk is cheap. If we all feel as strongly about this as the forum posts suggest, we need to do more than complain.

This is only a suggestion and we should decide on its merits or lack-thereof after this weekend once we have a better idea of how frequently Ascended loop drops and what the Infusions are.

Just some thoughts.

I am not happy with the change and I showed my feelings about it with a swift uninstall. People may say this is premature, but I’ve been screwed over by too many games in the last couple of years, most recently Diablo 3 which I purchased the collector’s edition of. If Anet removes the stat increase for Ascended gear or makes exotics the gear ceiling for WvW, then I will reinstall. Until then, all the people crying about lack of progression can grind your new dungeon, get your new gear in a couple weeks, and cry some more about progression; Anet will probably listen.

Devil’s advocate: ANet promised “No gear treadmill.” They never promised that Exotic would be top of the line. We assumed that exotic would be based on two things: it was the best available, and the holy grail of legendary items had the same weapon stats. Now, it’s pretty clear from yesterday’s damage control post that they are not planning to introduce further tiers of gear, and that Ascended drops will be added over time to existing content. If both of those promises are kept, I’m OK with this. If they break those promises, I will accept that their word cannot be trusted.

jboynton.7894:

tkalamba.2541:

Urxx.6840:

tkalamba.2541:

Urxx.6840:

tkalamba.2541:

But Agony is limited to only a single dungeon, so the condition is already incredibly limited, and only kicks in after you progress to a certain point. It is entirely possible to experience the entirety of the dungeon without having to deal with agony.

Again, that’s the situation we will have now. But they already said they will keep expanding the infusion system, and that implies they will make it more and more relevant, otherwise why introduce it and a whole new rarity tier in the first place?

To provide options in end game content. It’s an option you can choose to do that won’t effect any other aspect of the game. They never said ALL future content will have to deal with Infusions.

But then why oppose the fact exotic gear receives an infusion slot and you trash the whole ascended concept?

You still have your options and they keep their word about the fact exotics are and remain the most powerful items.

Why make the hard work of a lot of people that have geared up several toons obsolete? That’s the base of the threadmill system which most despise and is going to put ArenNet against Wow, which does these thing a lot better because they had 8 years to perfect their threadmill system.

There is still the acquisition gap between Exotic and Legendary. You can get your full set of Exotic gear at 80 within a few days after hitting max level, but will take forever to get a Legendary.

Ascended gives players something to work towards between Exotic and Legendary, it closes the gap in acquisition time. Exotic gear is flawed, its too easily acquired. They wanted something that players in the end game could work towards getting as a final step. This in turn gives the end game some aspect of length vs. having the final gear so quickly. You get all your exotic, then what do you do? Sure you can explore, you can go for new skins but alot of people already rushed for map completion, and dungeons can get boring. This gives you yet another option to work towards. If Exotics took longer to get, they wouldn’t have had to add these items. Besides, with the slow trickle of Ascended items being released, most players wouldnt have an issue of obtaining some of it.

The acquisition gap is an after-the-fact excuse to try and calm the anger on the forums over this announcement. Legendary weapons are difficult to get because they’re supposed to be…..they’re legendary.

No matter how it gets spun the release of this armor with superior stats on it is exactly what they stated would not happen. There is absolutely zero reason why ascension and infusion couldn’t be introduced in a similar fashion to GW1. This patch should have seen the release of new armor/weapon skins and possibly the beginning of legendary armor.

“Upgrade components are actually built into Ascended items. Instead of upgrade slots” in other words thay may have a bit more power but you are unable to costomize them for your build.

Exotics still have a place in the world. Just dont go into the fractals without a few Ascended with sloted infusions on them

Lots of suggestions in this thread. I think most of them can be summarised thus:

1) Make Ascended gear provide a stat/combat benefit over Exotic gear ONLY in the Fractal Dungeon

2) Cosmetic / convenience advantages of Ascended gear are OK, and can be made permanent in and out of the new dungeon.

Creslin.1758:

Principe I.1492:

sireuh.3870:

A guy said this on another forum

A few quotes from 3 months back about gearing:

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet

Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”
– Colin Johanson

they just told a mountain of lies.

I will not give a penny to ArenaNet

No…you don’t know if they lied yet. Read what they said:

If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game.

They only promised that items that take an unrealistic amount of time to acquire will not have statistical advantages. Now ask yourself, do you know that Ascended items will take an unrealistic time for most players to acquire? No, you don’t. For all we know, Ascended items may take around the same time to acquire as exotics.

Legendary items are clearly what they are talking about in the quote above. They actually DO take a ridiculous amount of time and dedication to acquire, and as they said, they are only differentiated by appearance.

So long as Ascended items can be acquired in a reasonable amount of time, then no promises have been broken.

This is exactly what people are choosing to not see when they go about saying they were lied to and that others are being illogical for saying otherwise.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Devil’s advocate: ANet promised “No gear treadmill.” They never promised that Exotic would be top of the line. We assumed that exotic would be based on two things: it was the best available, and the holy grail of legendary items had the same weapon stats. Now, it’s pretty clear from yesterday’s damage control post that they are not planning to introduce further tiers of gear, and that Ascended drops will be added over time to existing content. If both of those promises are kept, I’m OK with this. If they break those promises, I will accept that their word cannot be trusted.

But what you describe is the definition of a gear treadmill. They raised the tier of gear and introduced a new level of stats.

It doesn’t matter if someone doesn’t call it a gear treadmill, that is the textbook definition of one.

There is no gap to bridge by keeping the current system of exotics=best in slot stats.

People complained they didn’t have end game. Now they get it (very good version, because new gear isn’t that superior to exotic) and now they complain again.

ANet said that only Ascended gear is going to be with better stats then exotic. Right now you can get from 0 to hero (from green to exotic when lvl 80) in 1 day! 1 DAY! If you craft of course, but look at (current) dungeon gear more like for SKIN then stats. If you don’t feel like using your time to do dungeon then simply don’t.

Snerf.1650:

Polluxor.5970:

Why aren’t ascended items just like exotics in stats?

I would really like to know the reason for this.

This is the real question that most people are missing. Everything is superfluous except this question.

All they need to do to fix this kerfuffle is change the plan and make ascended and legendary items exactly the same stat-wise as exotics.

Stick infusions on ascended items and keep legendaries just for looks.

Boom. Problem solved!

This is assuming that they believe they have a problem. I don’t think they believe this will impact them in a meaningful way.