Guild Wars 2

Logun.2349:

Freohr.7905:

Sky.9347:

Sennar.2309:

Drunken Mad King.8193:

Sennar.2309:

Can we have an official answhere?I think that at this points guys, the game don’t come back to their phylosophy.Why you are here only to delete post like mine before and don’t give us a real answhere?

They aren’t going to come on here and speak about it. They are just going to jam this system down the throats of their customer base and see the effect on it’s customer base and revenue stream. If it’s too negative of an effect they will back track.

Don’t expect much from them as far as communication and honestly don’t believe much that comes from them. They haven’t been upfront about this and I doubt they ever will.

No they are fraud people.In all of this years if you see blog post, interview etc no one tell that they will introduce this kitten.If i saw that they will do one day, i will not buy Gw2.

Honest to God – I never thought this of the ANet team.

I’ve followed this game since before BWE # 1, and while changes have been made I never lost trust in their team. They adhered to the stated design philosophy, and in my opinion they released an amazing game. I have never enjoyed a game like this since Ultima Online.

It had bugs and balance issues, but I honestly don’t care. It had hackers and glitches, and I don’t care.

I never once badmouthed their team, and I even said “okay, I was wrong on that – much respect to you guys ANet”. Check my post history, I have nothing to hide.

But this time it’s different. I don’t trust many game companies, but I trusted this one.

I don’t even think I will go back to GW1 after this. This may seem all chicken little and overly dramatic to some of you guys… but you have to understand there are no other options for a game built on horizontal progression. This was it, and now it is gone.

It matters to me.

Sadly the Anet that made GW1 isn’t the same Anet that made GW2. Which is becoming more and more apparent with this patch.

Ya add me to that list too… I really don’t know what to think of this but I lost allot of trust in ANet …..ley seem to be pandering to the gear progression centric crowd, but that’s a cup your not going to fill with this update … by the end of the week it will be add more…more…more …. then what?

I really would like to hear something decisive as what direction they intend to go in before I spend any more of my free time in this game……I’ll take one slap in the face, I’m not going to set myself up for another.

Exactly!

Mala.3861:

So horribly disappointing. Like being offerec a huge plate of warm cookies (the patch) with a huge, nasty long hair (ascended gear) lying right in the middle of it.

Note: Lying IS the word I meant to use even though laying is grammatically correct.. it just seemed so right in this case.

Let’s keep matters in perspective here.
- that 1300 relic item is exotic, not ascended
- we don’t even know what this item is for in the first place
- we aren’t sure that you’ll only get 5 tokens per fractal at the higher difficulties, not mentioning even at the lowest one because things can change between the time that preview was written and release, and after release

tkalamba.2541:

The difficulty will increase constantly, and is determined by the LOWEST common level of difficulty. 4/5 guys can be at level 15 difficulty, but 1 at level 2, the dungeon will then be at level 2. This means you will NEED lower level people for efficiency. You can’t just toggle the difficulty, its based on the a common level achieved. If you entire group is at level 15, the difficulty will be 15, and if you can’t progress, you have no choice but to take lower level people.

Actually, if you read the preview linked earlier, you’ll see you can select the difficulty freely as long as you don’t put it higher than any player in your group unlocked.

Logun.2349:

Ya add me to that list too… I really don’t know what to think of this but I lost allot of trust in ANet …..ley seem to be PANDAring to the gear progression centric crowd, but that’s a cup your not going to fill with this update … by the end of the week it will be add more…more…more …. then what?

Fixed that for you. See what I did there?

tkalamba.2541:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

tkalamba.2541:

kistell.5684:

" So say you’ve completed a few fractal runs and have access to scale 3 difficulty, your group disbands, and you head back into Lion’s Arch to form a new group. If one of the group members is currently only at scale 1 difficulty, that will be what the rest of the group is set at until you complete more fractals to advance the difficulty scale higher "

So how can any one say players will not be locked out, this is not a gateing mechanic.

Say i take a break for a few months i come back all is see is

LFM FOTM lvl 13 only!

Talk about dividing your community.

People will hit a difficulty wall in an infinitely scaling dungeon. You will need to go back to lower difficulty runs, which will mean there will be a demand for low difficulty people.

Who are you kitten. In a grind, players go the most efficient way. They will do lower level difficulties with higher gear level players to farm faster. If you think they will just take “lowbies” with them, you might be very young in matters of MMOs…

Do you not understand how this dungeon works?

The difficulty will increase constantly, and is determined by the LOWEST common level of difficulty. 4/5 guys can be at level 15 difficulty, but 1 at level 2, the dungeon will then be at level 2. This means you will NEED lower level people for efficiency. You can’t just toggle the difficulty, its based on the a common level achieved. If you entire group is at level 15, the difficulty will be 15, and if you can’t progress, you have no choice but to take lower level people.

From the preview it looks like you can set the difficulty level lower than your level. So you can probably just set the difficulty on your own, as long as it is the same or lower than the lowest member.

tkalamba.2541:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

tkalamba.2541:

kistell.5684:

" So say you’ve completed a few fractal runs and have access to scale 3 difficulty, your group disbands, and you head back into Lion’s Arch to form a new group. If one of the group members is currently only at scale 1 difficulty, that will be what the rest of the group is set at until you complete more fractals to advance the difficulty scale higher "

So how can any one say players will not be locked out, this is not a gateing mechanic.

Say i take a break for a few months i come back all is see is

LFM FOTM lvl 13 only!

Talk about dividing your community.

People will hit a difficulty wall in an infinitely scaling dungeon. You will need to go back to lower difficulty runs, which will mean there will be a demand for low difficulty people.

Who are you kitten. In a grind, players go the most efficient way. They will do lower level difficulties with higher gear level players to farm faster. If you think they will just take “lowbies” with them, you might be very young in matters of MMOs…

Do you not understand how this dungeon works?

The difficulty will increase constantly, and is determined by the LOWEST common level of difficulty. 4/5 guys can be at level 15 difficulty, but 1 at level 2, the dungeon will then be at level 2. This means you will NEED lower level people for efficiency. You can’t just toggle the difficulty, its based on the a common level achieved. If you entire group is at level 15, the difficulty will be 15, and if you can’t progress, you have no choice but to take lower level people.

And what do you not understand it has already been said higher level difficulty drop better loot?

You think people are going to ignore that to run through a few minuets faster?

stof.9341:

- that 1300 relic item is exotic, not ascended

that actually reinforces the grind argument: 1300 relics and it’s not even ascended?

Lets hope that ascended quality gear can be found through reasonable crafting and WvW.

Requiring dungeon’s to complete would be an epic disaster.

Urxx.6840:

Namu.5712:

Right but why would you be repeating it to begin with if your not a progression player? Its no more difficult skill wise then the first other then you taking more damage from a dot. If you are sitting there repeating it to the point where you need the new mitigation, why is there a complaint about your exotic gear being obsolete? When its really not.

They are trying to give progressive players something to do. If you are a casual player your exotic gear is still top of the line well besides legendary gear which most people wont even attempt to get because its so time consuming.

I really don’t understand why it’s so difficult.
Right now I’ve got full exotic gear. I can do whatever I want knowing my gear is not limiting me.

That’s exactly why I invested time and gold in having a full exotic set of armor and weapons. Because we were led to believe this way our gear wouldn’t have been a limiting factor ever again.

Now it’s a limiting factor again. For now, just in the difficulty levels of the Fractals that go above a certain numer. After a few patches who knows.

You are fine that a company lies to you and makes your time investments less and less relevant. I don’t, especially since they advertised they wouldn’t. Simple as that.

Great post!

Ganzo.5079:

Hunterdan.4921:

tkalamba.2541:

Jairyn.6913:

tkalamba.2541:

Sennar.2309:

Can we have an official answhere?I think that at this points guys, the game don’t come back to their phylosophy.Why you are here only to delete post like mine before and don’t give us a real answhere?

Read this http://www.guildwars2hub.com/guides/basics/complete-guide-fractals-mists#.UKT2QkeP4Po.reddit

Full breakdown in new mechanics

So, grinding.

It’s not like grinding wasn’t present in this game…. people grinded for their exotics, dungeon gear etc…..

The grinding statements made by Anet were mostly in reference to a necessary grinding through levels to get to an “end game”, but people like to take it out of context.

There’s also a lot of people in here making the false assumption that you need to run the new dungeon to receive ascended gear. Not true.

“Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. "

If you’re not interested in running a “grindy” dungeon, don’t.

there are real issues of miscommunication by the company, and they arent clearing at all, and this can go inb only one direction, worse, and worse.

1)they dont clear if the ascendend tier is the last tier in terms of stats, or if with future content\expansion they are going to increase item stats and level cap too.

2)they dont clear how infusion work, we only know that provide as sideeffect agony resistance

3)someone of us (me included) dont understand why release this new tier, update by update, when one of their statement was: “WHEN ITS READY”… and this tier its not ready!

i think that as customer, i have the right to have some clear information.
I dont like to act like a kitten… but i dont like to be fooled too.

I’m with you Ganzo. I greatly desire information. A typically transparent staff has been rather mum on the issue. I feel this is likely because they want to trickle information through news outlets. Or, they may be required to keep silent since numerous news outlets are releasing information on the new content as we speak. I’ve no idea.

Until I’m shown otherwise, I will probably keep the mindset that exotic gear, with it’s wider range of customization (And possible greater upgrades coming along with the content) will prove to be on par, or better than ascended items in instances not specifically designed for the ascended gear.

Is this speculation? Of course. We’re all likely incorrect on details. But at this point I refuse to believe that a development studio would throw out an entire foundation of gear, an upgrade customization system, and their stated principles to add 3 pieces of gear that grant an “8% stat increase for people who desire a progressive loot system.” I’m not buying it until I see it.

I feel this most of this negativity stems purely from conjecture spewed by doomsayers that lack a full picture.

kistell.5684:

tkalamba.2541:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

tkalamba.2541:

kistell.5684:

" So say you’ve completed a few fractal runs and have access to scale 3 difficulty, your group disbands, and you head back into Lion’s Arch to form a new group. If one of the group members is currently only at scale 1 difficulty, that will be what the rest of the group is set at until you complete more fractals to advance the difficulty scale higher "

So how can any one say players will not be locked out, this is not a gateing mechanic.

Say i take a break for a few months i come back all is see is

LFM FOTM lvl 13 only!

Talk about dividing your community.

People will hit a difficulty wall in an infinitely scaling dungeon. You will need to go back to lower difficulty runs, which will mean there will be a demand for low difficulty people.

Who are you kitten. In a grind, players go the most efficient way. They will do lower level difficulties with higher gear level players to farm faster. If you think they will just take “lowbies” with them, you might be very young in matters of MMOs…

Do you not understand how this dungeon works?

The difficulty will increase constantly, and is determined by the LOWEST common level of difficulty. 4/5 guys can be at level 15 difficulty, but 1 at level 2, the dungeon will then be at level 2. This means you will NEED lower level people for efficiency. You can’t just toggle the difficulty, its based on the a common level achieved. If you entire group is at level 15, the difficulty will be 15, and if you can’t progress, you have no choice but to take lower level people.

And what do you not understand it has already been said higher level difficulty drop better loot?

You think people are going to ignore that to run through a few minuets faster?

There will be a point where you simply can’t go any further. You will hit a wall.

Nar.8327:

Logun.2349:

Ya add me to that list too… I really don’t know what to think of this but I lost allot of trust in ANet …..ley seem to be PANDAring to the gear progression centric crowd, but that’s a cup your not going to fill with this update … by the end of the week it will be add more…more…more …. then what?

Fixed that for you. See what I did there?

LOL ….good one!!!!!

tkalamba.2541:

kistell.5684:

" So say you’ve completed a few fractal runs and have access to scale 3 difficulty, your group disbands, and you head back into Lion’s Arch to form a new group. If one of the group members is currently only at scale 1 difficulty, that will be what the rest of the group is set at until you complete more fractals to advance the difficulty scale higher "

So how can any one say players will not be locked out, this is not a gateing mechanic.

Say i take a break for a few months i come back all is see is

LFM FOTM lvl 13 only!

Talk about dividing your community.

People will hit a difficulty wall in an infinitely scaling dungeon. You will need to go back to lower difficulty runs, which will mean there will be a demand for low difficulty people.

MMORPG.com also said the difficulty scale resets once per week. A piece of vital information that I was surprised to not see on other news outlets.

Urxx.6840:

that actually reinforces the grind argument: 1300 relics and it’s not even ascended?

And it got worse stats than EVERY exotic 80 item in the game currently. Your point is? We don’t know what this item is at all.

You carefully edited out the part where I mentioned we don’t really know how many relics per run we’ll really get in the first place.

Can we please get a official response on this issue? The last response can more or less be summed up as “Were listening” but that was like 3000 replies ago. Almost up to 9000 replies on this issue.

Are you people serious? You’ve been playing this game for God knows how many hours, and you’re all spitting your pacifiers out based on a few paragraphs of PR speak?

I have a couple of suggestions. First, stop with the talk of quitting, because I fully expect to see everyone here complaining the same way the next time some new content is added. The few of you who really will leave over this, well, good job for sticking to your word, but really…try seeing how the new stuff pans out before you go and slit your wrists?

As I said, you’ve all seen, what, a few lines of text and a screenshot of a ring? What if ANet make the new stuff craftable in a month or two? What if ALL of the Ascended stuff, as it’s obviously intended for grinding the new dungeon, has Magic Find as one of it’s stats, and the slight increase on the others are intended to balance it a little?

You’ve seriously taken all the content in the game so far (which I’ve really enjoyed, personally), balanced it against one press release, and decided to form a lynch mob? Yeesh!

What worries me more is the 20 slot exotic box, as if we have 20 exotic drops while we grind atm. That alone points out that exotics will become more common loots after the patch.

Guess it would be great now that I can look forward to getting the corrupted daggers for much cheaper.

stof.9341:

Urxx.6840:

that actually reinforces the grind argument: 1300 relics and it’s not even ascended?

And it got worse stats than EVERY exotic 80 item in the game currently. Your point is? We don’t know what this item is at all.

You carefully edited out the part where I mentioned we don’t really know how many relics per run we’ll really get in the first place.

I didn’t edit out anything, I just quoted the part I was replying to.

Valmarius.4150:

You’ve seriously taken all the content in the game so far (which I’ve really enjoyed, personally), balanced it against one press release, and decided to form a lynch mob? Yeesh!

Yes because they are adding gear treadmills. Even if its craftable, if anet intends to add more gear later or use the current gear as a key to content then its treadmill.

Valmarius.4150:

Are you people serious? You’ve been playing this game for God knows how many hours, and you’re all spitting your pacifiers out based on a few paragraphs of PR speak?

I have a couple of suggestions. First, stop with the talk of quitting, because I fully expect to see everyone here complaining the same way the next time some new content is added. The few of you who really will leave over this, well, good job for sticking to your word, but really…try seeing how the new stuff pans out before you go and slit your wrists?

As I said, you’ve all seen, what, a few lines of text and a screenshot of a ring? What if ANet make the new stuff craftable in a month or two? What if ALL of the Ascended stuff, as it’s obviously intended for grinding the new dungeon, has Magic Find as one of it’s stats, and the slight increase on the others are intended to balance it a little?

You’ve seriously taken all the content in the game so far (which I’ve really enjoyed, personally), balanced it against one press release, and decided to form a lynch mob? Yeesh!

I understand that some posts may seem like it, but we are simply going off of clear statements by devs that directly indicate a key design direction of the game is radically changing.

We aren’t raging, we are simply:

A. Voicing the direction we feel is best for the game and why.

B. Asking for a clear, non-pr speak, explanation of what is coming, and why.

So far, there have been no official statements that present evidence to indicate that this isn’t a departure from the previously touted horizontal end game. Raising the stat ceiling above exotic absolutely brings in additional (and to many of us, unwanted) vertical progression.

So to re-cap, we aren’t frothing, we are rational dissecting public statements by Anet devs and voicing our thoughts on those statements.

Xpiher.5209:

Yes because they are adding gear treadmills. Even if its craftable, if anet intends to add more gear later or use the current gear as a key to content then its treadmill.

Are they? Again, we’ve had such limited info that assuming -anything- is a fool’s game. The question of whether or they should have just given straight answers is a different discusison completely, but I don’t think ANet should be forced to reveal everything they’re working on whenever the forum gets up-in-arms about something. They’d have to have an equivelant to the bat phone to even begin to answer the flood of questions and demands.

Snerf.1650:

I understand that some posts may seem like it, but we are simply going off of clear statements by devs that directly intidicate a key design direction of the game is radiclly changing.

We aren’t raging, we are simply:

A. Voicing the direction we feel is best for the game and why.

B. Asking for a clear, non-pr speak, explanation of what is coming, and why.

So far, there have been no official statements that present evidence to indicate that this isn’t a departure from the previously touted horizontal end game. Raising the stat ceiling above exotic absolutely brings in additional (and to many of us, unwanted) vertical progression.

So to re-cap, we aren’t frothing, we are rational dissecting public statements by Anet devs and voicing our thoughts on those statements.

Well said. Clear and concise.

Valmarius.4150:

Xpiher.5209:

Yes because they are adding gear treadmills. Even if its craftable, if anet intends to add more gear later or use the current gear as a key to content then its treadmill.

Are they? Again, we’ve had such limited info that assuming -anything- is a fool’s game. The question of whether or they should have just given straight answers is a different discusison completely, but I don’t think ANet should be forced to reveal everything they’re working on whenever the forum gets up-in-arms about something. They’d have to have an equivelant to the bat phone to even begin to answer the flood of questions and demands.

Which is one stance, sure.

However, I would argue that if what they are working is a design departure from years of public statements, press releases, interviews, and precedent, then they absolutely should be open and transparent of that process.

Snerf.1650:

I understand that some posts may seem like it, but we are simply going off of clear statements by devs that directly indicate a key design direction of the game is radically changing.

We aren’t raging, we are simply:

A. Voicing the direction we feel is best for the game and why.

B. Asking for a clear, non-pr speak, explanation of what is coming, and why.

So far, there have been no official statements that present evidence to indicate that this isn’t a departure from the previously touted horizontal end game. Raising the stat ceiling above exotic absolutely brings in additional (and to many of us, unwanted) vertical progression.

So to re-cap, we aren’t frothing, we are rational dissecting public statements by Anet devs and voicing our thoughts on those statements.

Some of you are being very reasonable in your opinions, I agree. For the calm people who don’t think my post should be directed at them, it probably wasn’t.

Valmarius.4150:

Are you people serious? You’ve been playing this game for God knows how many hours, and you’re all spitting your pacifiers out based on a few paragraphs of PR speak?

I have a couple of suggestions. First, stop with the talk of quitting, because I fully expect to see everyone here complaining the same way the next time some new content is added. The few of you who really will leave over this, well, good job for sticking to your word, but really…try seeing how the new stuff pans out before you go and slit your wrists?

As I said, you’ve all seen, what, a few lines of text and a screenshot of a ring? What if ANet make the new stuff craftable in a month or two? What if ALL of the Ascended stuff, as it’s obviously intended for grinding the new dungeon, has Magic Find as one of it’s stats, and the slight increase on the others are intended to balance it a little?

You’ve seriously taken all the content in the game so far (which I’ve really enjoyed, personally), balanced it against one press release, and decided to form a lynch mob? Yeesh!

Well just the new tier alone means that I have to scrap my exotic gear and I would now have to farm this new tier for each of my characters to WvW with. This would likely end up being at least 3 full sets for each character I want to WvW with.

Legendary weapons are being upgraded to ascended, so with that, pictures and statements we already know that ascended gear will be better.

If I were actually going to stick around to farm all ascended gear, I would still have to decide if I should just run around in rare gear until all of the ascended gear is out or not. Then after I finish getting 24 full sets of ascended gear, they could turn around and make another tier.

There is no way I can do that lol.

If the update goes through it will need to scrap the extra tier or make WvW use pvp gear, or I will have to move on lol.

Hunterdan.4921:

Ganzo.5079:

Hunterdan.4921:

tkalamba.2541:

Jairyn.6913:

tkalamba.2541:

Sennar.2309:

Can we have an official answhere?I think that at this points guys, the game don’t come back to their phylosophy.Why you are here only to delete post like mine before and don’t give us a real answhere?

Read this http://www.guildwars2hub.com/guides/basics/complete-guide-fractals-mists#.UKT2QkeP4Po.reddit

Full breakdown in new mechanics

So, grinding.

It’s not like grinding wasn’t present in this game…. people grinded for their exotics, dungeon gear etc…..

The grinding statements made by Anet were mostly in reference to a necessary grinding through levels to get to an “end game”, but people like to take it out of context.

There’s also a lot of people in here making the false assumption that you need to run the new dungeon to receive ascended gear. Not true.

“Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. "

If you’re not interested in running a “grindy” dungeon, don’t.

there are real issues of miscommunication by the company, and they arent clearing at all, and this can go inb only one direction, worse, and worse.

1)they dont clear if the ascendend tier is the last tier in terms of stats, or if with future content\expansion they are going to increase item stats and level cap too.

2)they dont clear how infusion work, we only know that provide as sideeffect agony resistance

3)someone of us (me included) dont understand why release this new tier, update by update, when one of their statement was: “WHEN ITS READY”… and this tier its not ready!

i think that as customer, i have the right to have some clear information.
I dont like to act like a kitten… but i dont like to be fooled too.

I’m with you Ganzo. I greatly desire information. A typically transparent staff has been rather mum on the issue. I feel this is likely because they want to trickle information through news outlets. Or, they may be required to keep silent since numerous news outlets are releasing information on the new content as we speak. I’ve no idea.

Until I’m shown otherwise, I will probably keep the mindset that exotic gear, with it’s wider range of customization (And possible greater upgrades coming along with the content) will prove to be on par, or better than ascended items in instances not specifically designed for the ascended gear.

Is this speculation? Of course. We’re all likely incorrect on details. But at this point I refuse to believe that a development studio would throw out an entire foundation of gear, an upgrade customization system, and their stated principles to add 3 pieces of gear that grant an “8% stat increase for people who desire a progressive loot system.” I’m not buying it until I see it.

I feel this most of this negativity stems purely from conjecture spewed by doomsayers that lack a full picture.

I wish that were true, even if it is convoluted.

“Legendary items were always intended to be on par with other “best-in-slot” items. So fear not, all existing Legendary weapons, which are currently on par with Exotics, will be upgraded to be on par with Ascended weapons at the same time that we add Ascended weapons to the game. Thus Legendaries will remain “best-in-slot” items. All Legendary items going forward will be of Ascended power. "

- Linsey Murdock

Snerf.1650:

Which is one stance, sure.

However, I would argue that if what they are working is a design departure from years of public statements, press releases, interviews, and precedent, then they absolutely should be open and transparent of that process.

Actually after years public statements, press releases, interviews, and precedents that design departure shouldn’t exist at all. Period.

Even if they were perfectly transparent about it, it would still be plain wrong.

So let me make sure I understand what I just read.

It will take 90 (ninety!!!!) runs of this one dungeon to get a single piece of gear, which is likely only one component in the creation of one piece of ascended gear. You’ve created a more powerful tier of gear that most players will never get. This is the worst possible scenario you could have created.

ArenaNet, I am utterly baffled. This is so entirely contrary to everything I’ve understood about you since I first learned about the game. I’m floored.

You are providing a way for people who get their fun out of these games by grinding a single piece of content hundreds of times to have better stats and a power advantage over people who play this game for fun and take advantage of the whole world of content. I guess you feel that’s the ONLY way to get those grinders to play…they have to be able to be “better” than everyone else through gear. Let’s all bow down to them and give them what they want, at the expense of the game’s integrity and everyone else’s fun.

What you are telling me is that I’m a second-class customer. That I’m not important. That me wanting to play your game as originally intended (no grind) will forever relegate me to a lower level of power and lesser rewards. Talk about a smack in the face.

Snerf.1650:

Which is one stance, sure.

However, I would argue that if what they are working is a design departure from years of public statements, press releases, interviews, and precedent, then they absolutely should be open and transparent of that process.

The important word there is ‘if’. IF this is the start of a real gear treadmill, I’ll also be pretty kittened. I’m willing to wait and see what they’re actually doing before I start demanding ritual sacrfice, though.

Urxx.6840:

Snerf.1650:

Which is one stance, sure.

However, I would argue that if what they are working is a design departure from years of public statements, press releases, interviews, and precedent, then they absolutely should be open and transparent of that process.

Actually after years public statements, press releases, interviews, and precedents that design departure shouldn’t exist at all. Period.

Even if they were perfectly transparent about it, it would still be plain wrong.

I agree with you on this, and have been active in voicing my thoughts directly along those lines.

All I’m saying is that if a company was to change direction like this, I believe that the responsible way to manage it would be in an open and transparent way.

If its ONLY ONE MORE STATS TIER, to add a sense of progression to the game, i can accept it… im not agree but i can accept it…

If its become the same: add a new tier time to time, and update legendary to the new max stat… i look elsewhere, because when you accept this type of game progression, you CANT blame no one if the game its not challeging, or its not fun.

Valmarius.4150:

Snerf.1650:

Which is one stance, sure.

However, I would argue that if what they are working is a design departure from years of public statements, press releases, interviews, and precedent, then they absolutely should be open and transparent of that process.

The important word there is ‘if’. IF this is the start of a real gear treadmill, I’ll also be pretty kittened. I’m willing to wait and see what they’re actually doing before I start demanding ritual sacrfice, though.

How long are you willing to wait? It seems like the answer won’t be given until a future content update.

Sky.9347:

Hunterdan.4921:

Ganzo.5079:

Hunterdan.4921:

tkalamba.2541:

Jairyn.6913:

tkalamba.2541:

Sennar.2309:

Can we have an official answhere?I think that at this points guys, the game don’t come back to their phylosophy.Why you are here only to delete post like mine before and don’t give us a real answhere?

Read this http://www.guildwars2hub.com/guides/basics/complete-guide-fractals-mists#.UKT2QkeP4Po.reddit

Full breakdown in new mechanics

So, grinding.

It’s not like grinding wasn’t present in this game…. people grinded for their exotics, dungeon gear etc…..

The grinding statements made by Anet were mostly in reference to a necessary grinding through levels to get to an “end game”, but people like to take it out of context.

There’s also a lot of people in here making the false assumption that you need to run the new dungeon to receive ascended gear. Not true.

“Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. "

If you’re not interested in running a “grindy” dungeon, don’t.

there are real issues of miscommunication by the company, and they arent clearing at all, and this can go inb only one direction, worse, and worse.

1)they dont clear if the ascendend tier is the last tier in terms of stats, or if with future content\expansion they are going to increase item stats and level cap too.

2)they dont clear how infusion work, we only know that provide as sideeffect agony resistance

3)someone of us (me included) dont understand why release this new tier, update by update, when one of their statement was: “WHEN ITS READY”… and this tier its not ready!

i think that as customer, i have the right to have some clear information.
I dont like to act like a kitten… but i dont like to be fooled too.

I’m with you Ganzo. I greatly desire information. A typically transparent staff has been rather mum on the issue. I feel this is likely because they want to trickle information through news outlets. Or, they may be required to keep silent since numerous news outlets are releasing information on the new content as we speak. I’ve no idea.

Until I’m shown otherwise, I will probably keep the mindset that exotic gear, with it’s wider range of customization (And possible greater upgrades coming along with the content) will prove to be on par, or better than ascended items in instances not specifically designed for the ascended gear.

Is this speculation? Of course. We’re all likely incorrect on details. But at this point I refuse to believe that a development studio would throw out an entire foundation of gear, an upgrade customization system, and their stated principles to add 3 pieces of gear that grant an “8% stat increase for people who desire a progressive loot system.” I’m not buying it until I see it.

I feel this most of this negativity stems purely from conjecture spewed by doomsayers that lack a full picture.

I wish that were true, even if it is convoluted.

“Legendary items were always intended to be on par with other “best-in-slot” items. So fear not, all existing Legendary weapons, which are currently on par with Exotics, will be upgraded to be on par with Ascended weapons at the same time that we add Ascended weapons to the game. Thus Legendaries will remain “best-in-slot” items. All Legendary items going forward will be of Ascended power. "

- Linsey Murdock

Yeah, I know. I suppose convoluted speculation is all we have at this point.

We’ll see. But I’m still not going with “the sky is falling.” I still feel this is an intended design choice. Not a reaction to people saying, “I’m bored! Give me lootz!”

Content development cycles are too long for a team to just up throw out their principles in a matter of weeks. If their principle goals changed when they started developing the content, we would have seen that reflected long before the game launched.

Valmarius.4150:

Snerf.1650:

Which is one stance, sure.

However, I would argue that if what they are working is a design departure from years of public statements, press releases, interviews, and precedent, then they absolutely should be open and transparent of that process.

The important word there is ‘if’. IF this is the start of a real gear treadmill, I’ll also be pretty kittened. I’m willing to wait and see what they’re actually doing before I start demanding ritual sacrfice, though.

And that’s a perfectly fair response, to be sure.

However, thus far what they have done is said “no treadmill” while describing changes that absolutely indicate somewhat of a treadmill direction. It’s instituting vertical progression where there previously was none.

We are skeptical because it would have been very easy for them to add ascended items at the same stat level as exotics. This isn’t the case though. They very clearly and consciously created them as being objectively better, or a tier above.

You know what the irony is in all of this, in my opinion of course, I hear so many people complain about grind, insisting they want only the best equipement/rewards and how this update is going to be the end of the world as its the start of a gear threadmill etc.. They argue how Arenanet could make such a collossal mistake! the irony in my opinion is that Arenanet took this step to try to help out these same people! let me explain why I came to this conclusion.

I hear so many people complain that Orr is boring, you point out to them that even in a level 2 zone you can earn money and karma probably on the same level as Orr if you factor in time / risk to the rewards but they’d never contemplate leaving Orr cause they’re convinced its way more profitable. 25 amazing zones, full of detail and stories to experiance, hidden secrets to uncover and just for a little more profit they stay 24/7 in Orr even though there is absolutely 0 hurry to reach any goal in Gw2. You can comfortably play any content in rare armor, actually probably even regular armor is enough! does it really matter if it takes double the time to get the money required to get that item you’re farming for? No! yet these people grind to get there as quickly as possible. These same people then obviously get burned out and complain how there is nothing to do. So how can Arenanet solve such a problem? They needed to do something that scales as much as possible, releasing a new zone just wouldn’t have worked in my view because it would be Orr all over again. Not to mention that if the reward were identical I wouldnt be surprised people would still stick with Orr just cause they know it better and don’t have to relearn it!

So a Dungeon which gets progressively harder with better rewards was a good idea in this aspect! Its also funny to read about people cautioning about powercreep. Everyone of you who decided to to stick in Orr to make more money emulated the issues of powercreep even though the game has the most brilliant design to make powercreep completely a none issue, Downleveling! No other MMO including Gw1 makes it as feasable to play in a low level zone at max level! though that wasnt enough for many of you so why is this suddenly such a huge deal?

I know not everyone sticks in Orr because there is always players around no matter what zone I play in so this will obviously not apply to everyone but to people like me who are content with playing for the fun and let things take as much time as they want to take are ascended armor such a big deal? The only effect they have is the new dungeon and WvW, WvW I really didnt notice a different from when I was playing with rare+masterworks to when I switched to exotics and sometimes still play with rare as I forget to switch over from my MF gear! it happened a few times and it didnt make such a difference that it alerted me to the issue and ascended armor is actually 1/2 a tier higher not a full tier like rare→exotics are!

I honestly think people are massively over reacting! Pretty sure this is actually quite a good thing for people who just want to grind best rewards and keeping it fresh (though still has to be seen how it will play out!)

just give it a chance and decide after you have all the facts in your hands rather then going on a witch hunt in many cases with wrong information as well!

Hunterdan.4921:

Sky.9347:

Hunterdan.4921:

Ganzo.5079:

Hunterdan.4921:

tkalamba.2541:

Jairyn.6913:

tkalamba.2541:

Sennar.2309:

Can we have an official answhere?I think that at this points guys, the game don’t come back to their phylosophy.Why you are here only to delete post like mine before and don’t give us a real answhere?

Read this http://www.guildwars2hub.com/guides/basics/complete-guide-fractals-mists#.UKT2QkeP4Po.reddit

Full breakdown in new mechanics

So, grinding.

It’s not like grinding wasn’t present in this game…. people grinded for their exotics, dungeon gear etc…..

The grinding statements made by Anet were mostly in reference to a necessary grinding through levels to get to an “end game”, but people like to take it out of context.

There’s also a lot of people in here making the false assumption that you need to run the new dungeon to receive ascended gear. Not true.

“Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. "

If you’re not interested in running a “grindy” dungeon, don’t.

there are real issues of miscommunication by the company, and they arent clearing at all, and this can go inb only one direction, worse, and worse.

1)they dont clear if the ascendend tier is the last tier in terms of stats, or if with future content\expansion they are going to increase item stats and level cap too.

2)they dont clear how infusion work, we only know that provide as sideeffect agony resistance

3)someone of us (me included) dont understand why release this new tier, update by update, when one of their statement was: “WHEN ITS READY”… and this tier its not ready!

i think that as customer, i have the right to have some clear information.
I dont like to act like a kitten… but i dont like to be fooled too.

I’m with you Ganzo. I greatly desire information. A typically transparent staff has been rather mum on the issue. I feel this is likely because they want to trickle information through news outlets. Or, they may be required to keep silent since numerous news outlets are releasing information on the new content as we speak. I’ve no idea.

Until I’m shown otherwise, I will probably keep the mindset that exotic gear, with it’s wider range of customization (And possible greater upgrades coming along with the content) will prove to be on par, or better than ascended items in instances not specifically designed for the ascended gear.

Is this speculation? Of course. We’re all likely incorrect on details. But at this point I refuse to believe that a development studio would throw out an entire foundation of gear, an upgrade customization system, and their stated principles to add 3 pieces of gear that grant an “8% stat increase for people who desire a progressive loot system.” I’m not buying it until I see it.

I feel this most of this negativity stems purely from conjecture spewed by doomsayers that lack a full picture.

I wish that were true, even if it is convoluted.

“Legendary items were always intended to be on par with other “best-in-slot” items. So fear not, all existing Legendary weapons, which are currently on par with Exotics, will be upgraded to be on par with Ascended weapons at the same time that we add Ascended weapons to the game. Thus Legendaries will remain “best-in-slot” items. All Legendary items going forward will be of Ascended power. "

- Linsey Murdock

Yeah, I know. I suppose convoluted speculation is all we have at this point.

We’ll see. But I’m still not going with “the sky is falling.” I still feel this is an intended design choice. Not a reaction to people saying, “I’m bored! Give me lootz!”

Content development cycles are too long for a team to just up throw out their principles in a matter of weeks. If their principle goals changed when they started developing the content, we would have seen that reflected long before the game launched.

It doesn’t take months to add extra stat points. If ANET didn’t do that, then there wouldn’t be a problem with the system.

Anyways, off to bed have to be up in less than 5 hrs.

Xpiher.5209:

Valmarius.4150:

Snerf.1650:

Which is one stance, sure.

However, I would argue that if what they are working is a design departure from years of public statements, press releases, interviews, and precedent, then they absolutely should be open and transparent of that process.

The important word there is ‘if’. IF this is the start of a real gear treadmill, I’ll also be pretty kittened. I’m willing to wait and see what they’re actually doing before I start demanding ritual sacrfice, though.

How long are you willing to wait? It seems like the answer won’t be given until a future content update.

I would imagine they will talk about this more openly after the content launches. The devs have been rather quiet on the issue, which is not typical. I could see it being stated that they’re just not allowed to talk about it until it’s out. We’ll see I suppose.

What hurts the most now are videos like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYsueOW4ixk
I always defended and was one of the fanboys because of the no gear treadmill philosophy .But now I just look like a fool as anet caved in to minor wow population that didnt read what was buying.
And please dont tell me that I didnt read well into the info.I read every word anet posted many times.
Even the thing that they are only releasing few items at a time which would supposed to make us get the gear easier, is very disappointing.If they would release all the ascended gear in one patch at least I would be able to go and grind all the gear and be done once and for all and start enjoying the content and not worry about it anymore.But now I will always have on my mind that with each new patch I will have to chase new 3 pieces of armor.Not my type of game and not why I bought it and not what you promised.
Very very disappointed anet.

Sky.9347:

Mala.3861:

Keelin.5781:

tkalamba.2541:

Please read this before anyone continues their rampant speculation

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/guides/basics/complete-guide-fractals-mists#.UKT2QkeP4Po.reddit

This will explain the dungeon in full. You get 5 relics per Fractal, 3 fractals before an increase in difficulty. Relics are used to purchase your gear, so it things look alot less random than people thought.

So assuming that a fractal takes, in the best case, 15 minutes to complete as they wrote:
Those items cost 1.350 relics.
15 min = 5 relics
1.350 / 5 = 270 (Fractals)
270 * 15 (minutes) = 4050 minutes = 67.5 hours
So 67.5 hours of nonstop fractals for one item.
We have 12 equipment slots NOT including weapons.
810 hours to get items for all 12 slots.
Let’s assume that one day is defined as 12 hours.
And we’re back to 67.5. That is 67.5 days of non-stop dungeons to get all of your equipment this way.
Truly, there’s no grinding in GW2.

So horribly disappointing. Like being offerec a huge plate of warm cookies (the patch) with a huge, nasty long hair (ascended gear) lying right in the middle of it.

Note: Lying IS the word I meant to use even though laying is grammatically correct.. it just seemed so right in this case.

I would remove the hair, and eat the cookies.

I still have a faint sliver of hope ANet does that with Lost Shores.

From mmorpg.com playtest “That’s one of the beauties of the Fractals: even if you can’t complete more than one or two, you’ll still get some loot. And the Ascended gear has a chance to drop in each one, not just the Jade Maw boss that comes after the completion of six Fractals.”

So no, it’s not as grindy and harsh at that suggests.

Valmarius.4150:

The important word there is ‘if’. IF this is the start of a real gear treadmill, I’ll also be pretty kittened. I’m willing to wait and see what they’re actually doing before I start demanding ritual sacrfice, though.

If you check my post history you’ll see 90% of my posts are in this thread. Usually I play the game, not the forums.

The reason I’m here, is that when it will be clear that they took that route, it will be too late to go back, because they will have too many systems balanced around ascended gear.

Unless they provide some game mechanic that allows player to convert exotics to ascended, they have broken a promise and a premise of GW2’s design phylosophy, which was that after you got to exotics, the progression was just cosmetic. The so called “orizontal progression” everyone talks about in this thread.

Once that happens and we let them slip thru, there’s no going back. They are clever because they don’t patch in whole sets of ascended gear. They start small: just a ring and a back item and just one place where they make a difference.

But mark my words: they haven’t designed this whole new system to have some difficulty levels and a couple items. It will creep inside the game and expand patch after patch. And when you’ll realize GW2 is not what it was supposed to be anymore, it will be too late.

Xpiher.5209:

Hunterdan.4921:

Sky.9347:

Hunterdan.4921:

Ganzo.5079:

Hunterdan.4921:

tkalamba.2541:

Jairyn.6913:

tkalamba.2541:

Sennar.2309:

Can we have an official answhere?I think that at this points guys, the game don’t come back to their phylosophy.Why you are here only to delete post like mine before and don’t give us a real answhere?

Read this http://www.guildwars2hub.com/guides/basics/complete-guide-fractals-mists#.UKT2QkeP4Po.reddit

Full breakdown in new mechanics

So, grinding.

It’s not like grinding wasn’t present in this game…. people grinded for their exotics, dungeon gear etc…..

The grinding statements made by Anet were mostly in reference to a necessary grinding through levels to get to an “end game”, but people like to take it out of context.

There’s also a lot of people in here making the false assumption that you need to run the new dungeon to receive ascended gear. Not true.

“Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. "

If you’re not interested in running a “grindy” dungeon, don’t.

there are real issues of miscommunication by the company, and they arent clearing at all, and this can go inb only one direction, worse, and worse.

1)they dont clear if the ascendend tier is the last tier in terms of stats, or if with future content\expansion they are going to increase item stats and level cap too.

2)they dont clear how infusion work, we only know that provide as sideeffect agony resistance

3)someone of us (me included) dont understand why release this new tier, update by update, when one of their statement was: “WHEN ITS READY”… and this tier its not ready!

i think that as customer, i have the right to have some clear information.
I dont like to act like a kitten… but i dont like to be fooled too.

I’m with you Ganzo. I greatly desire information. A typically transparent staff has been rather mum on the issue. I feel this is likely because they want to trickle information through news outlets. Or, they may be required to keep silent since numerous news outlets are releasing information on the new content as we speak. I’ve no idea.

Until I’m shown otherwise, I will probably keep the mindset that exotic gear, with it’s wider range of customization (And possible greater upgrades coming along with the content) will prove to be on par, or better than ascended items in instances not specifically designed for the ascended gear.

Is this speculation? Of course. We’re all likely incorrect on details. But at this point I refuse to believe that a development studio would throw out an entire foundation of gear, an upgrade customization system, and their stated principles to add 3 pieces of gear that grant an “8% stat increase for people who desire a progressive loot system.” I’m not buying it until I see it.

I feel this most of this negativity stems purely from conjecture spewed by doomsayers that lack a full picture.

I wish that were true, even if it is convoluted.

“Legendary items were always intended to be on par with other “best-in-slot” items. So fear not, all existing Legendary weapons, which are currently on par with Exotics, will be upgraded to be on par with Ascended weapons at the same time that we add Ascended weapons to the game. Thus Legendaries will remain “best-in-slot” items. All Legendary items going forward will be of Ascended power. "

- Linsey Murdock

Yeah, I know. I suppose convoluted speculation is all we have at this point.

We’ll see. But I’m still not going with “the sky is falling.” I still feel this is an intended design choice. Not a reaction to people saying, “I’m bored! Give me lootz!”

Content development cycles are too long for a team to just up throw out their principles in a matter of weeks. If their principle goals changed when they started developing the content, we would have seen that reflected long before the game launched.

It doesn’t take months to add extra stat points. If ANET didn’t do that, then there wouldn’t be a problem with the system.

Anyways, off to bed have to be up in less than 5 hrs.

But why create the problem in the first place? Just to appease people who want to see their numbers go higher? That notion just doesn’t add up to me. I guess we’ll see.

Later man!

Pants.8315:

toomuchtatose.6874:

Pants.8315:

It’s a gear step. A treadmill implies it’s continuous. No where have they stated they will be adding anything beyond Ascended gear. In fact they explicitly said they were not intending to keep adding better tiers of gear.

To repeat what others have been saying, please quote where did ANet says no more new tiers?

Until then, we can only stay pessimistic since the balls are in their court, not ours.

“We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.”

He is simply acknowledging that the games been out 3 months and they’ve added a new set to give people something extra to work towards.

He is also explicitly saying that they won’t continue to add sets.

You can read into the sentence at discover any hidden meanings you like, but taken at face value, it simply says they don’t intend to continue adding more tiers.

Maybe I’m just optimistic, who knows, time will tell, and your more than welcome to keep my posts in reserve and say “I told you so” if in 4 months they add another tier.

Until that point I won’t be reading between the lines to uncover apparent hidden truths behind a message.

I don’t care about reading between the lines either. The real problem is once you have been lied to why would you assume they are telling the truth now?

Xpiher.5209:

It doesn’t take months to add extra stat points. If ANET didn’t do that, then there wouldn’t be a problem with the system.

Anyways, off to bed have to be up in less than 5 hrs.

I’m not much of a programmer, but I am reasonably sure that, given access to the item code, this could be changed in a matter of minutes. If it takes more effort than changing a few numbers in item definitions, it wasn’t coded very efficiently.

@Xpiher, because quote broke.

That, as it happens, is just about how long I’m willing to wait. I’ve enjoyed what I’ve played so far, and am quite content to see what is coming next. If it’s broken, I’ll move on. But I’m not inclined to wild speculation beforehand.

Keelin.5781:

tkalamba.2541:

Please read this before anyone continues their rampant speculation

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/guides/basics/complete-guide-fractals-mists#.UKT2QkeP4Po.reddit

This will explain the dungeon in full. You get 5 relics per Fractal, 3 fractals before an increase in difficulty. Relics are used to purchase your gear, so it things look alot less random than people thought.

So assuming that a fractal takes, in the best case, 15 minutes to complete as they wrote:
Those items cost 1.350 relics.
15 min = 5 relics
1.350 / 5 = 270 (Fractals)
270 * 15 (minutes) = 4050 minutes = 67.5 hours
So 67.5 hours of nonstop fractals for one item.
We have 12 equipment slots NOT including weapons.
810 hours to get items for all 12 slots.
Let’s assume that one day is defined as 12 hours.
And we’re back to 67.5. That is 67.5 days of non-stop dungeons to get all of your equipment this way.
Truly, there’s no grinding in GW2.

A day is 12 hours, really? Only if the player is unemployed. Even Kids should have 6 hours of school.

So if you sleep 8 hours, work 8 hours, you got 8 hours for GW2. And theres no other thing you do in these 8 hours. And with that, you will 101 days to get fully equiped.

If you play 6 hours a day, you will need 135 days to get fully equiped, doing only this dungeon.

135 days are more than 3 Month, so ANet is correct if they say they will not introduce new gear every 3 months, but maybe every 4 or 5 months…who knows.

Wow. Content looks great! I’m really excited.

Thank you Arena Net.

Relentless.5678:

Wow. Content looks great! I’m really excited.

Thank you Arena Net.

Yeah I’m really excited about new content as well. If it wasn’t for ascended gear, this patch would be awesome.

This way it could be the beginning of the end of the GW2 they promised us.

I’d just like to add that those of us with issues with the ascended gear system are excited for the other content.

It’s a bit unfortunate that’s its being lumped together.

The only issues we are sharing in this thread are that of gating and vertical gear progression.

All of the other content looks wonderful. No one is “looking a gift horse in the mouth” or otherwise disparaging the developers for the work put in to the Lost Shores events.

Urxx.6840:

Relentless.5678:

Wow. Content looks great! I’m really excited.

Thank you Arena Net.

Yeah I’m really excited about new content as well. If it wasn’t for ascended gear, this patch would be awesome.

This way it could be the beginning of the end of the GW2 they promised us.

Agreed, me too, if they remove this kitten ascendend gear will be ok.

Urxx.6840:

Relentless.5678:

Wow. Content looks great! I’m really excited.

Thank you Arena Net.

Yeah I’m really excited about new content as well. If it wasn’t for ascended gear, this patch would be awesome.

This way it could be the beginning of the end of the GW2 they promised us.

even the ascended gear is kind of a good idea (even if they could just make a quest a la infuse in gw1 for the current gear we have, but thats another topic).
the problem is them having a stat upgrade compared to exotics. thats all they need to change to make this madness go away : keep the stats the same.