Guild Wars 2

Snerf.1650:

I’d just like to add that those of us with issues with the ascended gear system are excited for the other content.

It’s a bit unfortunate that’s its being lumped together.

The only issues we are sharing in this thread are that of gating and vertical gear progression.

All of the other content looks wonderful. No one is “looking a gift horse in the mouth” or otherwise disparaging the developers for the work put in to the Lost Shores events.

It’s really unfortunate that a very bad and miopic company decision overshadows the work of so many brilliant and exceptionally talented individuals who worked hard to give us some amazing new stuff.

This helps measure the extent of the damage done by this mess.

tkalamba.2541:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

tkalamba.2541:

kistell.5684:

" So say you’ve completed a few fractal runs and have access to scale 3 difficulty, your group disbands, and you head back into Lion’s Arch to form a new group. If one of the group members is currently only at scale 1 difficulty, that will be what the rest of the group is set at until you complete more fractals to advance the difficulty scale higher "

So how can any one say players will not be locked out, this is not a gateing mechanic.

Say i take a break for a few months i come back all is see is

LFM FOTM lvl 13 only!

Talk about dividing your community.

People will hit a difficulty wall in an infinitely scaling dungeon. You will need to go back to lower difficulty runs, which will mean there will be a demand for low difficulty people.

Who are you kitten. In a grind, players go the most efficient way. They will do lower level difficulties with higher gear level players to farm faster. If you think they will just take “lowbies” with them, you might be very young in matters of MMOs…

Do you not understand how this dungeon works?

The difficulty will increase constantly, and is determined by the LOWEST common level of difficulty. 4/5 guys can be at level 15 difficulty, but 1 at level 2, the dungeon will then be at level 2. This means you will NEED lower level people for efficiency. You can’t just toggle the difficulty, its based on the a common level achieved. If you entire group is at level 15, the difficulty will be 15, and if you can’t progress, you have no choice but to take lower level people.

Currently, you can adjust the level to what you want it to be, so long as you’ve unlocked that difficulty. At least that is the case according to this article:

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/guides/basics/complete-guide-fractals-mists

Yep thank you! sounds like a great patch, dont listen to the whiners pls its always the same in every MMO released so far there is always a vocal minority which just wants to
start dlane waes seems like they suceedet here one again^^

According to Linsey, this is because of hamsters whining, so I don’t see what’s to discourage us.

Relentless.5678:

Wow. Content looks great! I’m really excited.

Thank you Arena Net.

Clarification: The content includes everything. I am lumping everything together. This includes ascended gear. I wasn’t being exclusionary.

SirMoogie.9263:

tkalamba.2541:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

tkalamba.2541:

kistell.5684:

" So say you’ve completed a few fractal runs and have access to scale 3 difficulty, your group disbands, and you head back into Lion’s Arch to form a new group. If one of the group members is currently only at scale 1 difficulty, that will be what the rest of the group is set at until you complete more fractals to advance the difficulty scale higher "

So how can any one say players will not be locked out, this is not a gateing mechanic.

Say i take a break for a few months i come back all is see is

LFM FOTM lvl 13 only!

Talk about dividing your community.

People will hit a difficulty wall in an infinitely scaling dungeon. You will need to go back to lower difficulty runs, which will mean there will be a demand for low difficulty people.

Who are you kitten. In a grind, players go the most efficient way. They will do lower level difficulties with higher gear level players to farm faster. If you think they will just take “lowbies” with them, you might be very young in matters of MMOs…

Do you not understand how this dungeon works?

The difficulty will increase constantly, and is determined by the LOWEST common level of difficulty. 4/5 guys can be at level 15 difficulty, but 1 at level 2, the dungeon will then be at level 2. This means you will NEED lower level people for efficiency. You can’t just toggle the difficulty, its based on the a common level achieved. If you entire group is at level 15, the difficulty will be 15, and if you can’t progress, you have no choice but to take lower level people.

Currently, you can adjust the level to what you want it to be, so long as you’ve unlocked that difficulty. At least that is the case according to this article:

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/guides/basics/complete-guide-fractals-mists

Yeah, I missed that initially, We’ll have to see exactly how this part works. It also apparently resets every week. Which should be a nice benefit.

Relentless.5678:

Relentless.5678:

Wow. Content looks great! I’m really excited.

Thank you Arena Net.

Clarification: The content includes everything. I am lumping everything together. This includes ascended gear. I wasn’t being exclusionary.

Do you mind if I ask you how the act of raising the stat ceiling beyond exotic gear increases your enjoyment of GW2? Or rather, what current issue you have with the game that this addresses?

tetsuo.7318:

Yep thank you! sounds like a great patch, dont listen to the whiners pls its always the same in every MMO released so far there is always a vocal minority which just wants to
start dlane waes seems like they suceedet here one again^^

Who played Star Wars Galaxies or Ultima Online still remembers the day when they patched in the changes that would ruin the game forever.

All those times “vocal minorities” had warned the company, and they chose to ignore them.

And it turned out awfully.

Smart companies listen carefully to feedback, especially when they see a reaction like this which is unprecedented in the short GW2 history.

All they have to do is lower the stats of Ascended Gear to Exotic level, leave the infusion slot in but make it ONLY work in the dungeons. Problem solved.

Galen Grey.4709:

I hear so many people complain that Orr is boring, you point out to them that even in a level 2 zone you can earn money and karma probably on the same level as Orr if you factor in time / risk to the rewards but they’d never contemplate leaving Orr cause they’re convinced its way more profitable.

Lower level zones, AFAIK, do not drop the rarity of loot that drops in Orr.

Sure, you can go to Queensdale and farm for Karma and coin super fast … but you’re only getting white, blues and greens (and many of them will be zone-leveled … so you’re level 80 getting level 5 blues).

Scaling for loot is funky.

Krebgoth.4603:

What hurts the most now are videos like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYsueOW4ixk
I always defended and was one of the fanboys because of the no gear treadmill philosophy .But now I just look like a fool as anet caved in to minor wow population that didnt read what was buying.
And please dont tell me that I didnt read well into the info.I read every word anet posted many times.
Even the thing that they are only releasing few items at a time which would supposed to make us get the gear easier, is very disappointing.If they would release all the ascended gear in one patch at least I would be able to go and grind all the gear and be done once and for all and start enjoying the content and not worry about it anymore.But now I will always have on my mind that with each new patch I will have to chase new 3 pieces of armor.Not my type of game and not why I bought it and not what you promised.
Very very disappointed anet.

Yup that video sums it up pretty well imo…

“As we watch Guild Wars 2 mature in its Live environment, we have found that our most dedicated players were achieving their set of Exotic gear and hitting “the Legendary wall.” We designed the process of getting Legendary gear to be a long term goal, but players were ready to start on that path much sooner than we expected and were becoming frustrated with a lack of personal progression. Our desire is to create a game that is more inclusive for hardcore and casual players alike, but we don’t want to overlook the basic need for players to feel like they are progressing and growing even after hitting max level. Adding item progression is a delicate process normally undertaken in an expansion, but we feel it’s important to strive to satisfy the basic needs of our players sooner rather than later.”
- Linsey Murdock

This has been bothering me too.

First of all – I take issue with how you use the term “dedicated players” to mean those who consume content at a rate MUCH higher than you expected. That isn’t dedication.

Second of all – Adding item progression is a delicate process normally undertaken in an expansion. Say what? When has ANet ever released an expansion that adds item progression?

Thirdly – “basic need” is not correct. I have a basic need for food and warmth. There is no “basic need” for an artificially inflated set of gear to work towards so that I always feel as if I have a goal to pursue that will result in the increased power of a video game character. In fact, I don’t even have a non-basic need for such a thing. While we’re at it… I don’t even have a desire for it, much less a need at all.

Grishnak.8021:

Keelin.5781:

tkalamba.2541:

Please read this before anyone continues their rampant speculation

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/guides/basics/complete-guide-fractals-mists#.UKT2QkeP4Po.reddit

This will explain the dungeon in full. You get 5 relics per Fractal, 3 fractals before an increase in difficulty. Relics are used to purchase your gear, so it things look alot less random than people thought.

So assuming that a fractal takes, in the best case, 15 minutes to complete as they wrote:
Those items cost 1.350 relics.
15 min = 5 relics
1.350 / 5 = 270 (Fractals)
270 * 15 (minutes) = 4050 minutes = 67.5 hours
So 67.5 hours of nonstop fractals for one item.
We have 12 equipment slots NOT including weapons.
810 hours to get items for all 12 slots.
Let’s assume that one day is defined as 12 hours.
And we’re back to 67.5. That is 67.5 days of non-stop dungeons to get all of your equipment this way.
Truly, there’s no grinding in GW2.

A day is 12 hours, really? Only if the player is unemployed. Even Kids should have 6 hours of school.

So if you sleep 8 hours, work 8 hours, you got 8 hours for GW2. And theres no other thing you do in these 8 hours. And with that, you will 101 days to get fully equiped.

If you play 6 hours a day, you will need 135 days to get fully equiped, doing only this dungeon.

135 days are more than 3 Month, so ANet is correct if they say they will not introduce new gear every 3 months, but maybe every 4 or 5 months…who knows.

This assumes the reward for level 1, we however don’t know if the reward increases at each level, perhaps level 5 gives 25 and is fairly doable. I wouldn’t assume that level 5 would actually take 5 times longer to complete either. Each 3 shard completions seem to up the level as well. So each pass would give 15 and at level 5 it would give 125 per the full 3 part run.

Urxx.6840:

Who played Star Wars Galaxies or Ultima Online still remembers the day when they patched in the changes that would ruin the game forever.

Star Wars Galaxy got ruined. Ultima Online got saved by the changes. The game would have plain be closed a lot earlier without them. As said Origin at the time, either they gave Trammel to the players for them to move to, or they’d all move to Everquest which they were already doing massively.

i dont think you people are really getting this point, the (would be) socket stats are just going to be rolled into the gear already…..your offensive stats will be the SAME.

it just lets you upgrade a defensive stat…that is it, that is how they will regulate progression which is completely fine, you wont need ascended gear unless you want to progress in the hardest pve content they will release.

…the offensive capability will be the same. problem? i don’t see how it effects WVW or any PVP, or any previous content.

You have the gear stats progression other games have.

Than you have the cosmetic ‘progression’ or incentives GW2 has, as an alternative.

What puzzles me is that when the cosmetic incentives proved a bit too weak, they couldn’t come up with anything else except falling back to a minor form of stats progression.

Lack of creativity is odd, coming from a company making the most creative game designs in MMO land…

You are completely incorrect. Ascended gear has 8% higher stats when accounting for an upgraded exotic.

Another thing about the new tier that is funny is this.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge/Other_Items

I have only done this once before. Bring your own transmutation stones. Safety not guaranteed.

It would also be funny to be the guy that made a bunch of those before he heard about the new tier. heh.

No, they’re not.
Please look again at the ring comparison, and compare the stats.

The Ascended has +5 Power, +5 Precision and +3% Magic Find over the Exotic.

Kimbald.2697:

You have the gear stats progression other games have.

Than you have the cosmetic ‘progression’ or incentives GW2 has, as an alternative.

What puzzles me is that when the cosmetic incentives proved a bit too weak, they couldn’t come up with anything else except falling back to a minor form of stats progression.

Lack of creativity is odd, coming from a company making the most creative game designs in MMO land…

They never released a content update with cosmetic incentives. Never. Not once.

Halloween event stuff doesn’t count, because those are short term limited availability skins.

They could have added more skins, skills, animations, emotes, titles, achievements, or even unique Exotic items with special infusion slots for future dungeon specific progression system.

Instead, they took this FIRST content patch and introduced “gear progression”.

Kimbald.2697:

You have the gear stats progression other games have.

Than you have the cosmetic ‘progression’ or incentives GW2 has, as an alternative.

What puzzles me is that when the cosmetic incentives proved a bit too weak, they couldn’t come up with anything else except falling back to a minor form of stats progression.

Lack of creativity is odd, coming from a company making the most creative game designs in MMO land…

Agree, i just see in the future that people who cry for raids in suggestion complete this fractal items in short time and will cry on forum again.
Bad choice arenanet, you turn your back at Gw1 fans for Wow fans.

Obviously you failed math class. Nice try though.

Excited? No not really. I hate gear grind (sorry, I mean “item progression”) as I work full time and do not have time to chase those extra gear stats – and as a result I can not join in the higher level dungeons or areas. So, Anet, you’re just basically excluding me from the top of this game.

This sounds to me like you ran out of ideas, so just went “Well, what does WoW do? Oh yeah, adds new stats, lets do that”. I really thought you were more original than that.

Forcing players to grind out the same dungeons over and over and over again, just to gain a few more stats, in order to do another dungeon over and over and over again is just not fun.

However, your choice, your game, but you will lose alot of customers sadly.

Just for your information: https://d2vn94glaxzkz3.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Ascended-EN.png

That is from: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

It clearly shows the gear has better stats.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/6892/Guild-Wars-2-Exploring-the-Fractals.html

Another article that shows more information, including one of the bosses you face.

Sennar.2309:

Kimbald.2697:

You have the gear stats progression other games have.

Than you have the cosmetic ‘progression’ or incentives GW2 has, as an alternative.

What puzzles me is that when the cosmetic incentives proved a bit too weak, they couldn’t come up with anything else except falling back to a minor form of stats progression.

Lack of creativity is odd, coming from a company making the most creative game designs in MMO land…

Agree, i just see in the future that people who cry for raids in suggestion complete this fractal items in short time and will cry on forum again.
Bad choice arenanet, you turn your back at Gw1 fans for Wow fans.

Raids are another possibility.

Introduce raids for all I care. Just don’t change the maximum stat gear. Can’t raids be fun with Exotic gear? Maybe make them instanced, scalable combinations of dungeons and dynamic events only for level 80s in any quantity. Make them have very low % drop rates for amazing skins based on the number of people you bring.

That would be excellent, horizontal progression.

Is it just me, or is the entire Fractals dungeon giving us fewer new unique skins than the Halloween update? I don’t see any new skins except that one crystal back piece.

In the Fractals press previews, there are no new skins visible or skinned objects for sale.

Ninth Requiem.3250:

No, they’re not.
Please look again at the ring comparison, and compare the stats.

The Ascended has +5 Power, +5 Precision and +3% Magic Find over the Exotic.

+5 power x 6 accessories and 6 armor pieces(note that armor pieces have varying stats depending on which piece, i.e. helm stats <chestpiece stats) there will be a noticeable increase in stats.

now the armor is a bit more guesswork as we have no idea if they are going to account for runes or not. but as it stands right now, the exotic ring shown on the right of the image in the post is completely obsolete when compared to the ascended ring on the left.

Well, the update is also 200 new craft formulas and a brand new map to explore, exploit and exterminate.

stof.9341:

Urxx.6840:

Who played Star Wars Galaxies or Ultima Online still remembers the day when they patched in the changes that would ruin the game forever.

Star Wars Galaxy got ruined. Ultima Online got saved by the changes. The game would have plain be closed a lot earlier without them. As said Origin at the time, either they gave Trammel to the players for them to move to, or they’d all move to Everquest which they were already doing massively.

In the case of UO, you have to somewhat define “saved”.

The game died with the world split. It may have limped on, but the soul was gone and so were most players anyways. I’d argue that not implementing that change could have benefited them more in the long run, as it would have been the single largest factor setting UO up as an alternate MMO experience to EQ.

With the world split, they simply tried to attract the same players who would look towards EQ anyways.

The problem with homogenizing your game is that if you can’t offer a different experience, you must offer a superior experience. There was no way UO could “out-EQ at being EQ” just as there is no way current or recent mmos can “out-WoW at being WoW”.

I believe that this example is absolutely relevant to the current discussion in this thread regarding the ascended gear and potential decisions facing GW2 devs.

stof.9341:

Well, the update is also 200 new craft formulas and a brand new map to explore, exploit and exterminate.

Which in turn has its own skins for people to go for.

Rukia.4802:

@Naoko

You are the problem with MMO’s today. We don’t need a carrot, the whole point of GW was to remove or rather let us eat the carrot instead of endlessly chasing it. Again, trillions of other posters have said this but let me be clear with it: if you want grind, pandaland is that way —-->

If you say that I’m the problem of the mmo, it’s the same as saying people are the problem of this world. Progression is part of human nature. People wants to keep evolving. People wants to keep themselves anticipated.

The point is not about chasing carrot. <- This is a treadmill. Read carefully.
The point is that there must be a carrot after you ate another carrot.
That is progression in mmo.

It’s not where everyone reach the end and it’s a wall.
Let’s not just say “gear or skin progression”. It’s the progression as a whole.
Progression: Once you reached a goal, there must be another goal.

Item progression like ascended is better than no progression.
I see quite a big potential in the ascended gears. (infusions progressions and stuffs)
Take it like ascended was meant to be part of gw2 future addition.

Games are about goals. You play it because you want to achieve something higher and higher. If there’s no goals, people gets burned out after experiencing everything.

The problem with the current state of gw2 is that player is given every carrot in the game and they ate it all within 2 weeks to 1 month. Once all carrots are eaten, you don’t have anymore carrots to eat and leave the place. This is human nature. In mmo term, it’s called being burned out.
—————————
I really like ascended as it is to be between exotic and legendary. It’s because the progression betwen exotic to legendary is really horrible. The gap is unrealistic and 99% dedicated players rather not go for it. This causes dedicated players to stop their goals and creates low concurrency of players online per day. The ascended can be a good remedy for the progression between these 2 tiers.

I don’t know how guild wars 1 works but I’m curious to know the concurrency of players online in-game per day. With the lack of progression, the game feels like you only log into the game only if there’s a big event like halloween and christmas. On the rest of the days, players never log in. Only the small group of skin collectors are actually active. Why small group? It’s because beauty is in the eye of beholder for looks. Most players don’t feel the need to farm another armor look once they wear their favourite ones already. Evidence? It’s already in the game.

Small concurrency of players online per day isn’t good for guild wars 2 structure because most of the content is best when you experience with another player. It’s dynamic events. Imagine on a low concurrency day and there’s 10 dynamic events but only you and another player online. The rest of the players were not online because they are already satisfied with their gear looks and have no more goals. Those kind of inactive players are those who only come online if there’s any world event or major updates going on.

Sorry that people have to read the long post.
I just want to add something positive since there’s too much negativity around.
I want people to see that there’s both sides of the perception.

It’s a treadmill if they see it as treadmill.
It’s a progression if they see it as progression.

stof.9341:

Star Wars Galaxy got ruined. Ultima Online got saved by the changes. The game would have plain be closed a lot earlier without them. As said Origin at the time, either they gave Trammel to the players for them to move to, or they’d all move to Everquest which they were already doing massively.

So Origin lost hardcore PVP players that were the ones that weren’t interested in Everquest. The others did go anyway, even after Trammel, it just took a little longer.

This seems off-topic but it’s not. It’s never a good idea to alienate your core players. GW2’s core players are those who were fine with exotics being best-in-slot and progression being optional and cosmetic in nature.

This was the design phylosophy advertised by ANet and that they had respected up until now.

Now they are alienating those players to retain hardcore players, which they will lose anyway because they consume content faster than ANet produces it.

Sky.9347:

“As we watch Guild Wars 2 mature in its Live environment, we have found that our most dedicated players were achieving their set of Exotic gear and hitting “the Legendary wall.” We designed the process of getting Legendary gear to be a long term goal, but players were ready to start on that path much sooner than we expected and were becoming frustrated with a lack of personal progression. Our desire is to create a game that is more inclusive for hardcore and casual players alike, but we don’t want to overlook the basic need for players to feel like they are progressing and growing even after hitting max level. Adding item progression is a delicate process normally undertaken in an expansion, but we feel it’s important to strive to satisfy the basic needs of our players sooner rather than later.”
- Linsey Murdock

---

This has been bothering me too.

First of all – I take issue with how you use the term “dedicated players” to mean those who consume content at a rate MUCH higher than you expected. That isn’t dedication.

Second of all – Adding item progression is a delicate process normally undertaken in an expansion. Say what? When has ANet ever released an expansion that adds item progression?

Thirdly – “basic need” is not correct. I have a basic need for food and warmth. There is no “basic need” for an artificially inflated set of gear to work towards so that I always feel as if I have a goal to pursue that will result in the increased power of a video game character. In fact, I don’t even have a non-basic need for such a thing. While we’re at it… I don’t even have a desire for it, much less a need at all.

Exactly, it all basically points to this being a decision, made long before release, to shift from the Guild Wars paradigm to more standard MMO fare. While still espousing the Guild Wars paradigm. These are the things at the core of my disapproval.

siepher.9408:

+5 power x 6 accessories and 6 armor pieces(note that armor pieces have varying stats depending on which piece, i.e. helm stats <chestpiece stats) there will be a noticeable increase in stats.

now the armor is a bit more guesswork as we have no idea if they are going to account for runes or not. but as it stands right now, the exotic ring shown on the right of the image in the post is completely obsolete when compared to the ascended ring on the left.

By that logic anything up until now that wasn’t an Exotic tier item has been considered an obsolete item? So up until I upgraded to Exotic gear, I’ve basically been wearing trash bags and swinging old newspapers but still somehow I’ve managed to be competitive, that’s pretty embarrassing for my opponents (PvP and PvE alike).

Sarcasm aside, my point is that the increase in stats isn’t nearly as tremendous as everyone seems to think. Yes, it’s a better item stat-wise. No, it doesn’t make Exotics obsolete… not by a long shot.

Naoko.7096:

Rukia.4802:

@Naoko

You are the problem with MMO’s today. We don’t need a carrot, the whole point of GW was to remove or rather let us eat the carrot instead of endlessly chasing it. Again, trillions of other posters have said this but let me be clear with it: if you want grind, pandaland is that way —-->

If you say that I’m the problem of the mmo, it’s the same as saying people are the problem of this world. Progression is part of human nature. People wants to keep evolving. People wants to keep themselves anticipated.

The point is not about chasing carrot. <- This is a treadmill. Read carefully.
The point is that there must be a carrot after you ate another carrot.
That is progression in mmo.

It’s not where everyone reach the end and it’s a wall.
Let’s not just say “gear or skin progression”. It’s the progression as a whole.
Progression: Once you reached a goal, there must be another goal.

Item progression like ascended is better than no progression.
I see quite a big potential in the ascended gears. (infusions progressions and stuffs)
Take it like ascended was meant to be part of gw2 future addition.

Games are about goals. You play it because you want to achieve something higher and higher. If there’s no goals, people gets burned out after experiencing everything.

The problem with the current state of gw2 is that player is given every carrot in the game and they ate it all within 2 weeks to 1 month. Once all carrots are eaten, you don’t have anymore carrots to eat and leave the place. This is human nature. In mmo term, it’s called being burned out.
—————————
I really like ascended as it is to be between exotic and legendary. It’s because the progression betwen exotic to legendary is really horrible. The gap is unrealistic and 99% dedicated players rather not go for it. This causes dedicated players to stop their goals and creates low concurrency of players online per day. The ascended can be a good remedy for the progression between these 2 tiers.

I don’t know how guild wars 1 works but I’m curious to know the concurrency of players online in-game per day. With the lack of progression, the game feels like you only log into the game only if there’s a big event like halloween and christmas. On the rest of the days, players never log in. Only the small group of skin collectors are actually active. Why small group? It’s because beauty is in the eye of beholder for looks. Most players don’t feel the need to farm another armor look once they wear their favourite ones already. Evidence? It’s already in the game.

Small concurrency of players online per day isn’t good for guild wars 2 structure because most of the content is best when you experience with another player. It’s dynamic events. Imagine on a low concurrency day and there’s 10 dynamic events but only you and another player online. The rest of the players were not online because they are already satisfied with their gear looks and have no more goals. Those kind of inactive players are those who only come online if there’s any world event or major updates going on.

Sorry that people have to read the long post.
I just want to add something positive since there’s too much negativity around.
I want people to see that there’s both sides of the perception.

It’s a treadmill if they see it as treadmill.
It’s a progression if they see it as progression.

You make some good points, and I appreciate you sharing these thoughts on the subject.

I just have to ask, why does the carrot need to be “better stats”?

There are all kinds of other carrots that could be added that aren’t simple combat increases.

The players opposed to ascended armor aren’t opposed to awesome new things in the game, we are simply opposed to vertical increases.

We all love things like new skins, new areas, (and in my case player housing, Hall of Monuments, etc).

Snerf.1650:

In the case of UO, you have to somewhat define “saved”.

The game died with the world split. It may have limped on, but the soul was gone and so were most players anyways. I’d argue that not implementing that change could have benefited them more in the long run, as it would have been the single largest factor setting UO up as an alternate MMO experience to EQ.

With the world split, they simply tried to attract the same players who would look towards EQ anyways.

The problem with homogenizing your game is that if you can’t offer a different experience, you must offer a superior experience. There was no way UO could “out-EQ at being EQ” just as there is no way current or recent mmos can “out-WoW at being WoW”.

I believe that this example is absolutely relevant to the current discussion in this thread regarding the ascended gear and potential decisions facing GW2 devs.

Well, the two examples you gave are kind of interesting because I do believe the NGE case to be a failure, and the UO case to be a success although some people won’t see it. At the time UO existed, there was no room for a full gank MMO alone to compete against a theme park MMO. The market was far too small to sustain the gank MMO with only players that like this kind of game. The only reason UO worked pre Trammel as it was was because there was no other game to turn to so people would deal with it.

Nowadays, with Internet more common and all that, I do believe they could rerelease the exact same game with redone graphics and easily get enough subscriptions to sustain it. But in my opinion, the feeling of UO will never be possible again. A game populated exclusively with gank oriented players has a definitively different feeling that a game where every single MMO player in the world participates. If you somehow manage to get the themepark players to stick around by some divine intervention XD

Krebgoth.4603:

What hurts the most now are videos like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYsueOW4ixk
I always defended and was one of the fanboys because of the no gear treadmill philosophy .But now I just look like a fool as anet caved in to minor wow population that didnt read what was buying.
And please dont tell me that I didnt read well into the info.I read every word anet posted many times.
Even the thing that they are only releasing few items at a time which would supposed to make us get the gear easier, is very disappointing.If they would release all the ascended gear in one patch at least I would be able to go and grind all the gear and be done once and for all and start enjoying the content and not worry about it anymore.But now I will always have on my mind that with each new patch I will have to chase new 3 pieces of armor.Not my type of game and not why I bought it and not what you promised.
Very very disappointed anet.

You know what, I’m ashamed to admit it but I just liked his video.

I don’t know …. isn’t +3% magic find going to help out in the open world?

vox.5019:

Exactly, it all basically points to this being a decision, made long before release, to shift from the Guild Wars paradigm to more standard MMO fare. While still espousing the Guild Wars paradigm. These are the things at the core of my disapproval.

Not only that. I’m not one of those fundamentalists that says GW2 must be identical to GW1 in all its mechanics.

Departures exist already and a lot of them improve things.

But then, if you ANet want to be honest and respect your customers, you talk about ascended gear right from the start.

At least if I invest in exotics it’s an informed decision, because I know an higher tier is coming.

This way it’s not. It’s insulting our intelligence. Sneaking in a new tier like we were idiots and couldn’t understand the implications it carries with it, after you repeated for years that having to grind to get items higher in power was not ok.

Cyric.7485:

Sarcasm aside, my point is that the increase in stats isn’t nearly as tremendous as everyone seems to think. Yes, it’s a better item stat-wise. No, it doesn’t make Exotics obsolete… not by a long shot.

It makes Exotics obsolete because of the new Infusion slot, not just the stats.

It was quoted by Anet saying, “After a certain point, our new Ascended items and Infusions become crucial tools for survival.”. Proving that Ascended items will be mandatory over Exotics (since Exotics don’t have an Infusion slot).

Which in turn, will make Exotics obsolete if you wish to participate in any future content.

Naoko.7096:

Small concurrency of players online per day isn’t good for guild wars 2 structure because most of the content is best when you experience with another player. It’s dynamic events. Imagine on a low concurrency day and there’s 10 dynamic events but only you and another player online. The rest of the players were not online because they are already satisfied with their gear looks and have no more goals. Those kind of inactive players are those who only come online if there’s any world event or major updates going on.

How exactly is forcing players into instanced dungeons to progress going to help keep people around for dynamic events?

“my point is that the increase in stats isn’t nearly as tremendous as everyone seems to think. Yes, it’s a better item stat-wise. No, it doesn’t make Exotics obsolete… not by a long shot.”
this

people think that suddenly with somebody having ascended gear will make them gods, when the stats of thsi are only marginally better.
i read that having full accessories would give a roughly 3.3% in dps increase, and thats hardly a noticeable size.

i played the game from 45 to 70 (and wvw included) in lvl 45 greens, it wasnt until orr that i found myself forced to upgrade to lvl 80 rares that made the difference, which was noticeable, but not because it was rares, but simply because it was also lvl 80 gear.
@spyderArachnid
they will be crucial tools ot survive, yes that is true, but you are forgetting where, INSIDE the fractals DUNGEON, this new dungeon is going to be what, 1% of what the current game is?
also its a dungeon, there will be people who will be bound to love this dungeon, and people that will loathe the dungeon, because they loath dungeons in general and dont even go into the normal ones, but as far as normal pve progression is concerned, exotic items are still just as good as they have been

Logun.2349:

I don’t know …. isn’t +3% magic find going to help out in the open world?

3% Magic Find won’t. But 3% more crit damage, or 30-40 more condition damage, or 30-40 more (insert another primary stat) will, especially when multiplied by 10-12x (all gear slots will become ascended eventually). You could be looking at 150% crit damage, vs 90-100% (current exotic zerker sets). And other primary stats will also display this huge disparity the more asc/leg anet releases. All because they’re stupid/sadistic enough to go back on their word and make ascended/legendary gear have higher stats than exotics…

A player coming back 3-6months from now will be noticeably weaker in WvW and in dungeons/zone events, and the promise of accessibility will evaporate for good.

And guess what? These ascended items, they’re going to be a 50-100x worse grindfest than the exotics you spent time/patience getting. And the legendaries that will be even higher stats? Well.. Yeah.

Point is, unlike GW1, you won’t be able to attain max statted gear and relax/do stuff without being forced/gate into content. The fact that WvW allows use of PvE/dungeon gear further exasperates this.

Snerf.1650:

Relentless.5678:

Relentless.5678:

Wow. Content looks great! I’m really excited.

Thank you Arena Net.

Clarification: The content includes everything. I am lumping everything together. This includes ascended gear. I wasn’t being exclusionary.

Do you mind if I ask you how the act of raising the stat ceiling beyond exotic gear increases your enjoyment of GW2? Or rather, what current issue you have with the game that this addresses?

I don’t personally get any enjoyment out of stats, and I have no objection to Arena Net introducing a new mechanic, like infusion, which does not impact a pre-existing portion of the game.

I can only guess that the new tier was introduced for some technical difficulty with changing all currently available and existing exotics. This would be the obvious choice, but perhaps there is a systemic problem with doing so.

Also, I believe they must have have been working on this content for longer than the game has been live. Surely it would take longer than a couple of moths to plan, code, develop and implement content of this scale? We as a community can hope that they take great care when rocking the boat, and make no decision lightly. I expect nothing less from a group of professionals.

“And guess what? These ascended items, they’re going to be a 50-100x worse grindfest than the exotics you spent time/patience getting. And the legendaries that will be even higher stats? Well.. Yeah.”

and how do you know they will be 50-100 worse grindfest?

You have promised no gear progression in GW2. Remove Ascended gear or I don’t buy the first expansion.

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it,
that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game.
Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet.

Cyric.7485:

siepher.9408:

+5 power x 6 accessories and 6 armor pieces(note that armor pieces have varying stats depending on which piece, i.e. helm stats <chestpiece stats) there will be a noticeable increase in stats.

now the armor is a bit more guesswork as we have no idea if they are going to account for runes or not. but as it stands right now, the exotic ring shown on the right of the image in the post is completely obsolete when compared to the ascended ring on the left.

By that logic anything up until now that wasn’t an Exotic tier item has been considered an obsolete item? So up until I upgraded to Exotic gear, I’ve basically been wearing trash bags and swinging old newspapers but still somehow I’ve managed to be competitive, that’s pretty embarrassing for my opponents (PvP and PvE alike).

Sarcasm aside, my point is that the increase in stats isn’t nearly as tremendous as everyone seems to think. Yes, it’s a better item stat-wise. No, it doesn’t make Exotics obsolete… not by a long shot.

ok i will give you that it is not obsolete but it is inferior in every way.

there is another thing i want to point out that i don’t know if it has been brought up. but if you look at armor and weapons armor and damage stats, they also scale with rarity example:

beserker exotic mace
http://www.gw2db.com/recipes/8361-berserkers-pearl-bludgeoner

beserker rare mace
http://www.gw2db.com/recipes/8354-berserkers-krait-morning-star

this is the same for armor aswell.

notice the difference in the weapon strength stat? now again this is speculation, but if that trend continues then ascended gear would be higher as well.

also as for being competitive in wvw (as that is the only current PvP that lets you use your PvE armor) your opponents may have had the same gear as you or even lower for that matter.

and again as I have said in other posts I am actually being optimistic about this patch as i think it won’t be the end of the world as some people think it might. the new gear is a pain but if it is truly the last tier then i will just treat it as if it was meant to be in form the begining. If the pattern continues (i really doubt it will) then i will leave. but for now i am cautiously excited.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

It makes Exotics obsolete because of the new Infusion slot, not just the stats.

It was quoted by Anet saying, “After a certain point, our new Ascended items and Infusions become crucial tools for survival.”. Proving that Ascended items will be mandatory over Exotics (since Exotics don’t have an Infusion slot).

Which in turn, will make Exotics obsolete if you wish to participate in any future content.

I’m going to assume that one liner quote is taken out of context and as thus, proves nothing without it’s surrounding paragraph. I also have the feeling that quote is talking about FotM and the new Agony condition. Feel free to correct me with a link or something, I admit I haven’t been losing my mind and blowing things out of proportion much, kinda just read the blog and went about my daily life.

Also, your signature is so ironic it hurts.

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it,
that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game.
Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet.