Guild Wars 2

BurnedToast.3781:

Sky.9347:

http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/chart?symbol=036570.KS

Satisfying.

For the uninitiated: see the little uptick up too Nov. 7, that’s a result of “new content and balance patches coming!” – see the drop after it, that’s because “and a brand new tier of gear!”.

Info dump on ascended gear + forum riot happened on the 12/13th.

NCsoft stock price fell off a cliff on the 8th.

So yeah, you can’t blame it on this, as much as I wish you could.

Yes it fell off a cliff before then, but man did it truly bottom out on the info dump day. It then upticked with the patch and then bottomed out again thanks to people realizing the junk went ingame.

mrstealth.6701:

Gingelyr.3648:

These ascended items are replacing my medium term goals, not adding new ones. Instead of working towards a sweet-looking weapon, now I’m going to go grinf Fractals so I don’t get locked out of future hard content.

I’m in pretty much the same spot now. Why should I bother getting a new weapon for it’s skin, transmuting it with another exotic, when I know that it will become outclassed in the near future? That would be wasting a currently “max” exotic -and- the transmutation stone.

Best case scenario would be getting a skin I like with stats I like as well…and still having to waste the trans stone later to upgrade my “max” weapon to the “new max” that Ascended adds.

Depends on how long you think it’ll take you to get ascended – especially if ascended events are designed for people in full exo gear. I find that if you skimp on gear in hopes of skipping the grind, it usually screws you over – if you’re going to farm badges, for instance, it’s better first to invest in all exo gear because otherwise you’re going to have a terrible time.

Luckily, though, this issue won’t be as big as it used to be because of the increased dungeon profitability, which inevitably gets you full exo complement. My advice would be to spec heavily for a dungeon, grind it to dust, and then tackle the ascended gear with not a single copper spent on the exo transition.

Yams.3859:

Yams.3859:

For those who are not happy with the stat increase, why don’t we decide on a day where no one logs into the game for a day? A weekend day (say Saturday Nov 24, one week after the content update, starting GMT 0:00 for 24 hours) would have the largest impact as player logins are highest. The benefits are two-fold:
1) For those claiming that this direction alienates a majority of the playerbase, ANet will have some concrete numbers to work with. It could be the case that much of what we see here is grandstanding and we are all happily chasing giant crabs to care, or ANet might see a 50% drop in playerbase for that period.
2) Talk is cheap. If we all feel as strongly about this as the forum posts suggest, we need to do more than complain.

This is only a suggestion and we should decide on its merits or lack-thereof after this weekend once we have a better idea of how frequently Ascended loop drops and what the Infusions are.

Just some thoughts.

Now that Ascended gear is here for good, I’d like to bring back my earlier suggestion. What are people’s interests in this? Any traction?

Good luck organizing it. Anet is moving every thread about this issue into this merged thread, making sure there can never be true discussion about it. Not enough people will see your suggestion in a couple of hours.

I get it ArenaNet, you want to achieve the impossible and appease both groups, those who want a gear treadmill and those who do not. This is how you do it.

The full stats bonuses of ascended gear only work in dungeons and revert to exotic stats in the rest of the game (normal zones, WvW, etc). This way, the dungeon/gear grinders can get their “phat lewtz” progression and the rest of us don’t have to worry about it and can continue to enjoy the game how we want.

To clarify my reasoning a bit, the folks who prefer gear progression always claim that the gear is there to help them with harder dungeons. So make the new gear only apply the stat boosts in the dungeons and leave the rest of the game alone.

How come anyone could still say this is not an horrible gear grind?

http://guildwars2hub.com/sites/sardu.tentonhammer.com/files/styles/full/public/fractal-relic-merchant.png

A new currency type has been added that is specific to the fractals dungeon, called Fractal Relics. At the end of each successfully completed fractal, a chest will spawn that contains 5 Fractal Relics along with any additional loot you’ve been awarded.

You need 500 for each Gift of Ascension, that is for only ONE piece of gear — We are not counting here that each infusion cost 75 (for the “simple”) and 225 (for the “versatile simple”) Keep adding.

How many hundreds of runs will be needed? :S

This from a company who had as a major selling point the lack of grind in their games (for anything like stats at least, for skins was another matter…)

How anyone would still deny is not a gear treadmill?

I am tempted to check if other western MMO’s (but who didn’t advertise anything like lack of grind) would actually be far less grindy than this at end game, probably far less time to get a set.

And well, “End game” we weren’t supposed to have any of that sort to begin with.

Aaron.4807:

So, a post I made saying I have deleted the client in protest of the new gear treadmill direction the game is taking was deleted because it was not on topic.

Excuse me, it is entirely on topic.

You want to know my thoughts on Ascended gear? I deleted the kitten client and will not be re downloading the kitten thing until Anet realizes just how badly they have screwed up.

This is on topic, I have done this because I am totally disgusted with being lied to and fooled by Anet for 7 years. I would say that is pretty on topic.

This will also get deleted soon for “not providing any meaningful contribution to the topic at hand.”. I wonder if they really think deleting some posts from a massive 10000 post outcry thread will make any difference other than further alienating those who complain. It would probably be at 20000 already if they did not do it. I hope they at least pay their mods well. They most likely did not have any say in this and might soon need a financial buffer in between jobs.

krookie.6378:

I get it ArenaNet, you want to achieve the impossible and appease both groups, those who want a gear treadmill and those who do not. This is how you do it.

The full stats bonuses of ascended gear only work in dungeons and reverts to exotic stats in the rest of the game (normal zones, WvW, etc). This way, the dungeon/gear grinders can get their “phat lewtz” progression and the rest of us don’t have to worry about it and can continue to enjoy the game how we want.

I actually like this. Nowhere in the regular PvE world (dungeons, maybe) do you need super exotic stats. Even just plain exotics is pushing it.

Krookie if you post that in the suggestions subforum I’ll +1 it there too (if such a topic hasn’t been made already, and it probably has)

They nerfed the engineer, the least played class. I really don’t understand this game’s direction anymore, it’s like a beautiful ship with a drunken captain and a maniac for a navigator.

Halloween was solid, even with the weird decision to make the skins only available via Chest RNG instead of selling them directly through the Gem Store.

But these gear locust people’s insistence on better gear somehow factoring in to their design direction is utterly confusing. This game lacks a lot of basic features that GW1 had that should have been in here, and what I mean is things like being able to wear any ‘town clothes’ in the PvE environment if you so choose. The ability to re-distribute your ‘traits’ in town (for free and without having to visit an NPC) and save templates to try different ‘builds.’ I didn’t expect a copy of GW1, which I loved, but I was expecting them to keep at least most of the better features and expand on it instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater to make this game.

Don’t get me wrong, there’s a lot I like about the game. But this is reading to me like a bad repeat of every MMO experience I’ve had while WAITING for this game. Namely AION and SWTOR. In both games the same thing happened there that’s happening here, with oddly the same arguments being presented on both sides.

Anyway on those game’s forums, (and in most cases I just lurk MMO forums because, even here, people are amazingly rude, bullheaded, and passive-aggressive) this argument was there. There were the people, these locusts that rush to ‘endgame’ expecting it to be like WoW and have just as much content as a game that’s been out 7 years apparently. They ramble in indignant fury when they don’t have anything to do after blitzkrieging all the content in weeks then angrily demand the devs to give them more content, leading to rushed patches and introduced power creeps.

Those in favor accuse anyone opposed of being crybaby QQing casuals who should kittenoff and die in a fire, and those against it eventually realize that they can’t win and leave. Then those in favor blame the casuals for leaving and without enough people to draw from to keep their fledgling ‘elite’ guilds alive by doing the dungeon grinds for the gear they want, the game takes a nose dive and the cycle repeats in the next game. (This hasn’t happened in only AION and SWTOR, but those are the most recent examples I have experience with.)

I’m one of those people. I’m a gear locust, and I want it to stop. My problem is that I hate, in a fight, thinking when I lose if it was me or the gear differential, so I get OCD and MUST HAVE THE BEST gear so that I do not feel at a disadvantage. In SWTOR or AION, especially in PvP, gear was a must. If you didn’t have PvP damage % you were useless. AION’s grind was too much even for my OCD (miragent’s and the dying PvP environment that forced you to PvE for PvP gear) but SWTOR… oh man, I went crazy. I took over the biggest guild on the server (political nonsense, but I got what I wanted) and proceeded to just destroy people in PvP, (Gunslinger in Full WH, 600k+ per match) and I watched people get bored after getting all their gear. They got bored, and then they wanted more gear. They got bored when they got it (the 1.3 patch) and the guild fell apart, all the long-time members got all their gear and left. We were huge, 3-4 fully geared raiding groups, at least 2 fully geared PvP teams, and it all just dwindled and died.

Gear treadmill isn’t a good metaphor. It’s a gear marathon, and once you reach the end, you collect your trophy, then you’re too tired to go around again. That’s what happened to everyone, they got their gear, and once they got it there was nothing left to run for. The new patch, for some, offered hope. They would say in vent to me about how 1.3 will make them want to play again, and then they saw it just added new gear but nothing really new, just more of the same only slightly harder so after they powered through that (in literally less than a month) they left. I myself, seeing the game just dying all around me, well, I quietly uninstalled and never logged in again. I feel bad for the guild, but they kept guilting me into trying to keep things going and it was just depressing.

It wasn’t enough to hold people’s interest in AION either, and a slew of others. LOTRO is another good immediate example. I don’t know much about RIFT or TERA and what I have seen is mixed at best.

Here’s why. If your only incentive is to get the best gear, if it’s stats, then for the majority of people like this who I’ve led, played with, or talked to, once they get their gear they treat it like they’ve beaten the game and demand more. It’s the only incentive that makes them want to keep playing, and if it takes too long to add more they leave. It becomes an endless unsustainable cycle.

(Cont, post limit reached.)

(Cont from previous.)

Which is why I loved GW1. It has it’s flaws, I will never say it didn’t. I played since day one and remember early prophs and the massive OP farming builds and wealth disparity (which over time became much less of an issue) and the bizarre bugs. Or how about doing the Iron Mines of Moladune 6x to get all your armor fully infused? I remember 90k Superior Vigor runes and GWEN melting us all in Ascalon City at the end of the first beta, lol.

GW1 had it’s problems, and it was not an MMO. GW2 is an MMO that defined itself on the same basic tenants of GW1, which was an ultimate balance and no grind (that wasn’t optional). Allow me to deviate for a moment on that ‘optional’ point. If you wanted to max titles and get elite armor, which afforded you no real advantage spare bragging rights, then you chose to grind. Saying there was a grind in GW1 isn’t a false statement but it is misleading. The grind was only there if you decided to do it, nothing you did made you better as a player. That level 20 set of armor I got in Prophs for my warrior in Drok’s Forge lasted me till I upgraded to 15k, but the stats never changed. When they wanted to make PvE harder, the mobs got more interesting and diverse builds, better AI, higher levels than the player could achieve … to force you to be more careful in how you chose to engage them. Not once, in any challenge in GW1, no matter how difficult or tedious it was, did they decide to to give us ‘better’ armor or new ‘stats’ to compensate for this. They just made the game harder and harder left it to the players to adapt, come up with a build to counter it, and overcome it.

I have no problem with them saying, ‘hey guys we decided to add a new armor Tier that will slowly become the best set and it won’t go beyond that.’ What I do have a problem with is the implication that a stat increase is somehow needed in order to give players an incentive to play when they managed to prove with Guild Wars 1 that they didn’t need to do that to have a successful game. It sets a dangerous precedent and I have been down this same road many, many, many times before in games outside of Guild Wars.

It feels stupid, knee-jerk, and short sighted. It’s the same trap that every MMO I’ve played has fallen into. This time, and with my experience with Guild Wars 1, I actually believed it would be different, because nothing in the hugely successful Guild Wars 1 ever led me to believe that ANet would change their minds about gear = progression. I was totally blindsided by this and it sort of knocked the wind out of my sails.

I’ve ground for gear. I’ve played the old school MMO game for too long, and I was hoping to finally see a happy marriage between Guild Wars 1 and the good aspects of an MMO. Nothing I saw in the manifesto or elsewhere gave me any indication that the core no-grind gear ceiling was going to change. Now instead dad’s sleeping on the couch, mom’s dating the pool guy and the kids are on the forums blaming each other for the mess.

I love that they’ve added new content so rapidly, but the fact that they have (according to a Dev on the Ranger sub forums if you want to look) two people working on bug fixes, radio silence about the sheer amount of displeasure and wedge this issue has driven in the community, and a blatant addition of vertical progression is really troubling. This was something they have never done before, and suddenly they need to do it to appease people working on a legendary? So they can feel like they are progressing in a game series famous for your progress being getting more skilled/proficient at your class? How come they never did that for people in GW1 who farmed for Obby Armor or some other expensive long term goal? If the actual possession of an awesome item barely anyone else has is not enough to retain them, giving people a slight stat boost and an ‘edge’ over other people isn’t going to either. Trust me, I know. Same thing has happened many times before, and I guess the buck does not stop here.

kaffaljidhma.1496:

krookie.6378:

I get it ArenaNet, you want to achieve the impossible and appease both groups, those who want a gear treadmill and those who do not. This is how you do it.

The full stats bonuses of ascended gear only work in dungeons and reverts to exotic stats in the rest of the game (normal zones, WvW, etc). This way, the dungeon/gear grinders can get their “phat lewtz” progression and the rest of us don’t have to worry about it and can continue to enjoy the game how we want.

I actually like this. Nowhere in the regular PvE world (dungeons, maybe) do you need super exotic stats. Even just plain exotics is pushing it.

Krookie if you post that in the suggestions subforum I’ll +1 it there too (if such a topic hasn’t been made already, and it probably has)

Took your advice and created a topic in suggestions. I doubt that it’ll do any good but maybe there is a slight chance.

Ultima Thule.3950:

How come anyone could still say this is not an horrible gear grind?[snip]

I made a post kind of putting this into perspective compared to the game’s existing dungeons:

So, I’m sure it’s been hashed out to death, but I just saw the “guide” to the dungeon, along with the picture of the rewards, and the description of how you get the tokens.

Now, it’s pretty clear from the icon (looking like part of the glowy piece from Linsey’s original blog), the stats (particularly that there are two ‘sets’ of stats, and one of them is ‘baked-in’), the name (“Prototype”) that the Prototype Fractal Capacitor is the precursor item to the Ascended back piece.
It’s also pretty clear (we’ve been told that the Ascended piece comes from a Mystic Forge recipe) that to get the Ascended piece is going to require the Prototype Exotic model, the “Gift of Ascension”, and possibly two other recipe components.

The Prototype Fractal Capacitor costs 1350 tokens, and the Gift is an additional 500. So the token cost is roughly on par with the cost of a full set of dungeon equipment, including weapons. For one piece.

The rate at which you get tokens, at least according to the information that that site has, is 5 tokens per ‘Fractal’, with each ‘Fractal’ taking 15-30 minutes. So the rate at which you acquire the tokens is slower than it was to get Dungeon tokens at launch (before they quadrupled the daily bonus and moved all the tokens to the last chest, in response to complaints about the massive, tedious grind).

So much for “Hey, maybe it won’t be too that bad.”

If you assume the most optimistic versions of those numbers (that you complete every Fractal in 15 minutes rather than 30, and that you don’t need to worry about a third and fourth Mystic Forge component when upgrading from Exotic to Ascended), it’s about ninety hours of grinding, for one piece.

The only thing that might alleviate a little of this is that we don’t know whether or not the number of tokens per Fractal increases as you go deeper, and if it does increase, we don’t know how far you have to go before it starts going up. But at the same time, we also don’t know 1) How deep you can go before Agony starts to kick in, or 2) How deep you can go before Agony effectively makes progress impossible without Infused equipment.

Bottom line, it’s not at all a pessimistic projection to imagine that Guild Wars 2 now takes just as long to gear up in as any other EverQuest clone in the world.

BurnedToast.3781:

Info dump on ascended gear + forum riot happened on the 12/13th.

NCsoft stock price fell off a cliff on the 8th.

So yeah, you can’t blame it on this, as much as I wish you could.

There are 3 very distinct bumps on the 14th (down), 15th (up), and 15th-end of day(down). It may not be the driving force in the general trend downwards, but there has been a noticeable effect.

krookie.6378:

krookie.6378:

I get it ArenaNet, you want to achieve the impossible and appease both groups, those who want a gear treadmill and those who do not. This is how you do it.

The full stats bonuses of ascended gear only work in dungeons and reverts to exotic stats in the rest of the game (normal zones, WvW, etc). This way, the dungeon/gear grinders can get their “phat lewtz” progression and the rest of us don’t have to worry about it and can continue to enjoy the game how we want.

Took your advice and created a topic in suggestions. I doubt that it’ll do any good but maybe there is a slight chance.

Should post a link to it here as well. It may draw more of us irate players over there to bump it.

edit: here it is https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Ascended-stats-only-work-in-dungeons/first#post749900

Yams.3859:

Yams.3859:

For those who are not happy with the stat increase, why don’t we decide on a day where no one logs into the game for a day? A weekend day (say Saturday Nov 24, one week after the content update, starting GMT 0:00 for 24 hours) would have the largest impact as player logins are highest. The benefits are two-fold:
1) For those claiming that this direction alienates a majority of the playerbase, ANet will have some concrete numbers to work with. It could be the case that much of what we see here is grandstanding and we are all happily chasing giant crabs to care, or ANet might see a 50% drop in playerbase for that period.
2) Talk is cheap. If we all feel as strongly about this as the forum posts suggest, we need to do more than complain.

This is only a suggestion and we should decide on its merits or lack-thereof after this weekend once we have a better idea of how frequently Ascended loop drops and what the Infusions are.

Just some thoughts.

Now that Ascended gear is here for good, I’d like to bring back my earlier suggestion. What are people’s interests in this? Any traction?

Yes sure, count me in, any and all days work for me. I’ve already made my last log in. As long as the endless stat grind is here, I’m not.

Great post DootMasterX.

I too have done the grind and I don’t want to do it anymore. You realize the progress you are getting is only an illusion of progress and the challenge you face is more a statistical one than a skill based one. Once you realize that, all the pride and reward from the vertical gear treadmill vanishes. And the most disheatening part is that you never feel fulfilled. You just have to get that next extra bit of stats, but then you’re off looking for the next carrot.

It’s unhealthy.

Glad I dropped hundreds of dollars in computer upgrades to run a game I’ll probably uninstall this weekend.

I thought that the official response was that the gear increase was a one time thing and that’s what we were discussing. Why are people getting back to gear treadmill as if there’s going to be another, higher stat item than ascended in the future?

News flash Kaffa legendary Armor will be rolling out the Patch notes sometime in the next six months they didn’t have time to get it in before release

Venn.8931:

Glad I dropped hundreds of dollars in computer upgrades to run a game I’ll probably uninstall this weekend.

Good news is there are some decent games coming that can take advantage of those upgrades.

Want an mmo feel with fps action? Try PS2 or Firefall (scifi style)
Want an mmo with the potential to be what we wanted? Keep an eye on WoD
Want a good action game? AC3, LoL, Smite beta are all options

Want a good treadmill MMO? WoW, Rift, Tera, Aion, LoTRO are all BETTER in that regard then GW2.

kaffaljidhma.1496:

I thought that the official response was that the gear increase was a one time thing and that’s what we were discussing. Why are people getting back to gear treadmill as if there’s going to be another, higher stat item than ascended in the future?

They never said it was a one-time thing. They said that it wouldn’t be “every three months” (so, hey, maybe it’ll be 4, or 6, or 9), and in another interview I’m pretty sure they specifically said that they were not going to say that it was the last tier of equipment.

And a gear treadmill is a gear treadmill whether it happens once, or a hundred times.

Aaron.4807:

So, a post I made saying I have deleted the client in protest of the new gear treadmill direction the game is taking was deleted because it was not on topic.

Excuse me, it is entirely on topic.

You want to know my thoughts on Ascended gear? I deleted the kitten client and will not be re downloading the kitten thing until Anet realizes just how badly they have screwed up.

This is on topic, I have done this because I am totally disgusted with being lied to and fooled by Anet for 7 years. I would say that is pretty on topic.

I’m so tempted to do the same, I’ve played every day since launch but haven’t logged in for the last 2 days and I can’t even get excited over the new content …. but I think I’ll stick around for the train wreck … after all they could always do what SWTOR did and go F2P ….. oh wait…eR?…ya

Crater.1625:

kaffaljidhma.1496:

I thought that the official response was that the gear increase was a one time thing and that’s what we were discussing. Why are people getting back to gear treadmill as if there’s going to be another, higher stat item than ascended in the future?

They never said it was a one-time thing. They said that it wouldn’t be “every three months” (so, hey, maybe it’ll be 4, or 6, or 9), and in another interview I’m pretty sure they specifically said that they were not going to say that it was the last tier of equipment.

And a gear treadmill is a gear treadmill whether it happens once, or a hundred times.

I’d like to see that other interview if you know where to find it.

kaffaljidhma.1496:

I thought that the official response was that the gear increase was a one time thing and that’s what we were discussing. Why are people getting back to gear treadmill as if there’s going to be another, higher stat item than ascended in the future?

Don’t worry, it’ll be a one time thing when they add the next gear tier above Ascended too.

I’d encourage everyone to change their forum signatures to something that disapproves of Arenanet’s blatant lying for starters. Lets go towards boycotting the game from there.

kaffaljidhma.1496:

I’d like to see that other interview if you know where to find it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Thoughts-on-Ascended-Gear-Merged-threads/page/197#post742562

ok, the intraforum links don’t work. Here’s the direct one: (I was trying to leave it intact for original credit, but w/e)

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/139a4j/official_post_ascended_items_on_german_forums/

http://i.imgur.com/BeyFB.png

WoW, check out this best in slot gear!

kaffaljidhma.1496:

I’d like to see that other interview if you know where to find it.

I’d gladly dig it up, but I’m almost positive it was merged into this thread a couple thousand posts ago. It was an interview originally in German; that might help you track it down somewhere (there’s one German interview from before the details about this patch were released, and one more recent one).

kaffaljidhma.1496:

I thought that the official response was that the gear increase was a one time thing and that’s what we were discussing. Why are people getting back to gear treadmill as if there’s going to be another, higher stat item than ascended in the future?

Can you show me where they promised no more higher tiers? Thanks!

Crater.1625:

Ultima Thule.3950:

How come anyone could still say this is not an horrible gear grind?[snip]

I made a post kind of putting this into perspective compared to the game’s existing dungeons:

So, I’m sure it’s been hashed out to death, but I just saw the “guide” to the dungeon, along with the picture of the rewards, and the description of how you get the tokens.

Now, it’s pretty clear from the icon (looking like part of the glowy piece from Linsey’s original blog), the stats (particularly that there are two ‘sets’ of stats, and one of them is ‘baked-in’), the name (“Prototype”) that the Prototype Fractal Capacitor is the precursor item to the Ascended back piece.
It’s also pretty clear (we’ve been told that the Ascended piece comes from a Mystic Forge recipe) that to get the Ascended piece is going to require the Prototype Exotic model, the “Gift of Ascension”, and possibly two other recipe components.

The Prototype Fractal Capacitor costs 1350 tokens, and the Gift is an additional 500. So the token cost is roughly on par with the cost of a full set of dungeon equipment, including weapons. For one piece.

The rate at which you get tokens, at least according to the information that that site has, is 5 tokens per ‘Fractal’, with each ‘Fractal’ taking 15-30 minutes. So the rate at which you acquire the tokens is slower than it was to get Dungeon tokens at launch (before they quadrupled the daily bonus and moved all the tokens to the last chest, in response to complaints about the massive, tedious grind).

So much for “Hey, maybe it won’t be too that bad.”

If you assume the most optimistic versions of those numbers (that you complete every Fractal in 15 minutes rather than 30, and that you don’t need to worry about a third and fourth Mystic Forge component when upgrading from Exotic to Ascended), it’s about ninety hours of grinding, for one piece.

The only thing that might alleviate a little of this is that we don’t know whether or not the number of tokens per Fractal increases as you go deeper, and if it does increase, we don’t know how far you have to go before it starts going up. But at the same time, we also don’t know 1) How deep you can go before Agony starts to kick in, or 2) How deep you can go before Agony effectively makes progress impossible without Infused equipment.

I couldn’t imagine that a precursor was also needed….. I feared tho, that we were for a major grind when I read this phrase:

“Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from Exotic up to Legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two.”

Massive jump in reward, there is not such a thing, both are the same except for the grind, so they wanted to put this new ascended halfway (in grind terms) between the two. Just imagine… Well no longer, we are seeing it.

Bottom line, it’s not at all a pessimistic projection to imagine that Guild Wars 2 now takes just as long to gear up in as any other EverQuest clone in the world.

Nope, I bet that except (perhaps) for the grindiest of all, this is worse than any other western MMO endgame.

I cannot imagine that they would do (thousand?) of times the same dungeon to get a set, I very much doubt it.

This is all extremely ironic. :/

Ostra.3927:

Venn.8931:

Glad I dropped hundreds of dollars in computer upgrades to run a game I’ll probably uninstall this weekend.

Good news is there are some decent games coming that can take advantage of those upgrades.

Want an mmo feel with fps action? Try PS2 or Firefall (scifi style)
Want an mmo with the potential to be what we wanted? Keep an eye on WoD
Want a good action game? AC3, LoL, Smite beta are all options

Want a good treadmill MMO? WoW, Rift, Tera, Aion, LoTRO are all BETTER in that regard then GW2.

Yeah. If I wanted too, I could fire up WoW right now, press two buttons and instantly be in a 5 man dungeon perfectly tuned for my current power level that dropped the exact type of loot I needed for the next tier.

OR, I could log into GW2 and do the same dungeon for the next 90 hours to buy 1 piece of the next tier.

Rhyse.8176:

kaffaljidhma.1496:

I’d like to see that other interview if you know where to find it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Thoughts-on-Ascended-Gear-Merged-threads/page/197#post742562

that’s broken since the thread doesn’t even have 197 pages yet but if it’s on the dev tracker I’ll try to find it.

kaffaljidhma.1496:

Rhyse.8176:

kaffaljidhma.1496:

I’d like to see that other interview if you know where to find it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Thoughts-on-Ascended-Gear-Merged-threads/page/197#post742562

that’s broken since the thread doesn’t even have 197 pages yet but if it’s on the dev tracker I’ll try to find it.

It’s because of the massive amount of deletion and suspension. I’ve been temp. suspended 4 times over the last 4 days. Across multiple accounts, mind you.

Okay, so a lot of people seem to be put on edge that ascended gear is better stat wise, but lets look at it the other way around;
Would it really feel reward to get a ring that the only difference between it and an exotic is; it has a slot for a infusion whilst exotic does not, and the stats slotted normally by a gem can not be changed.
Would that really be worth all the effort of obtaining one (still speculation that it will even be uber hard to obtain them) if you got nothing but a slot that does nothing outside the dungeon?
I’m sure if they did this a major part of the argument would be reversed and instead of “OMG WHY DOES IT HAVE BETTER STATS!” it would probably be “WHY DOESN’T IT HAVE BETTER STATS!”

EDIT: also for all we know the rest of the gear might actually be purely cosmetic, they may have just made the rings better to make them feel significant so that people will want to get them.

kaffaljidhma.1496:

that’s broken since the thread doesn’t even have 197 pages yet but if it’s on the dev tracker I’ll try to find it.

Fixed.

And again, cause of how fast the thread moves:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/139a4j/official_post_ascended_items_on_german_forums/

kaffaljidhma.1496:

Crater.1625:

kaffaljidhma.1496:

I thought that the official response was that the gear increase was a one time thing and that’s what we were discussing. Why are people getting back to gear treadmill as if there’s going to be another, higher stat item than ascended in the future?

They never said it was a one-time thing. They said that it wouldn’t be “every three months” (so, hey, maybe it’ll be 4, or 6, or 9), and in another interview I’m pretty sure they specifically said that they were not going to say that it was the last tier of equipment.

And a gear treadmill is a gear treadmill whether it happens once, or a hundred times.

I’d like to see that other interview if you know where to find it.

It was on the German forums. Here is the reddit link which has the GW2 forum link in it
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/139a4j/official_post_ascended_items_on_german_forums/

You will have to use google translate to read it. It butchers it, but you can get the gist. Also, I’ve read the german thread and they are just as unhappy about the ascension gear as us english speakers. They have 41 pages of discontent.

Derk.3189:

I’d encourage everyone to change their forum signatures to something that disapproves of Arenanet’s blatant lying for starters. Lets go towards boycotting the game from there.

It’s a shame really. I loved this game up until this patch. I even wanted to experience what the Lost Shores event has to offer, but the existence of this dungeon and its gear is just incredibly discouraging. There isn’t a single redeeming quality about it that doesn’t contradict the heavily marketed philosophy propagated by not only the developers but the very president of the company. My initial plan was just to log in anyway for the event, but definitely refrain from ever giving them another dollar to misspend again, but now I’m not even sure I can do that. This change is just far too demoralizing. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to believe anything game developers say again. They had one simple task and that was to deliver all the things that made Guild Wars 1 uniquely great and they did that for three months. I just wish it lasted a bit longer than that.

Ostra.3927:

Venn.8931:

Glad I dropped hundreds of dollars in computer upgrades to run a game I’ll probably uninstall this weekend.

Good news is there are some decent games coming that can take advantage of those upgrades.

Want an mmo feel with fps action? Try PS2 or Firefall (scifi style)
Want an mmo with the potential to be what we wanted? Keep an eye on WoD
Want a good action game? AC3, LoL, Smite beta are all options

Want a good treadmill MMO? WoW, Rift, Tera, Aion, LoTRO are all BETTER in that regard then GW2.

I’ll have to check out WoD.

Another to look at, that I’m personally excited for, is Elder Scrolls Online. Its even going to have RvRvR combat on an even larger scale than GW2. http://youtu.be/KxJTsq2XeKY?hd=1

Fingers are crossed it wont turn out to be another let down, as I too built an entire new computer for both me and my friend just for this game. :\

Yeah, I’m done with this game. 2 max level characters outfitted in full exotics, one more on his way, and 7 more characters waiting their turn; shelled out for Digital Deluxe with full intentions to purchase the highest level of all expansions, content, etc; bought extra copies to give to my friends and talked it up to all my WoW buddies only for this kitten. Done. You had one kittening job, and you screwed it up, Anet. The worst part is that you HAD it right, and you’re so kittening stupid you couldn’t even KEEP it right. What a joke and a failure.

E Tan.7385:

Derk.3189:

I’d encourage everyone to change their forum signatures to something that disapproves of Arenanet’s blatant lying for starters. Lets go towards boycotting the game from there.

Signature updated !.

good idea.

Count me in a boycott. Started a few days ago. Not going to refund, because I honestly believe this is the fault of the “Live” team.

Wow.. this thread is losing pages with all the deletion going on…

Wow.. this thread is losing pages with all the deletion going on…Just to keep this on topic. Ascended armor is the worst idea I have seen added to a game since Radiance in Lotro. That’s my feedback.

Wow.. this thread is losing pages with all the deletion going on…Just to keep this on topic. Ascended armor is the worst idea I have seen added to a game since Radiance in Lotro. That’s my feedback.Fix it by maxing ascended have the same stats as exotic and only adding the infusion slot so dungeon runners can grind their brains out and i can happily ignore it and continue to have fun in WvW

MrLT.6028:

kaffaljidhma.1496:

Crater.1625:

kaffaljidhma.1496:

I thought that the official response was that the gear increase was a one time thing and that’s what we were discussing. Why are people getting back to gear treadmill as if there’s going to be another, higher stat item than ascended in the future?

They never said it was a one-time thing. They said that it wouldn’t be “every three months” (so, hey, maybe it’ll be 4, or 6, or 9), and in another interview I’m pretty sure they specifically said that they were not going to say that it was the last tier of equipment.

And a gear treadmill is a gear treadmill whether it happens once, or a hundred times.

I’d like to see that other interview if you know where to find it.

It was on the German forums. Here is the reddit link which has the GW2 forum link in it
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/139a4j/official_post_ascended_items_on_german_forums/

You will have to use google translate to read it. It butchers it, but you can get the gist. Also, I’ve read the german thread and they are just as unhappy about the ascension gear as us english speakers. They have 41 pages of discontent.

If the translation is correct, I more strongly advocate ascended armor being boosted in stats only in progressive difficulty areas. A gear treadmill best complements a difficulty treadmill, and it actually seems like an exciting mechanic if limited to that (like TF2 Mann vs Machine, which I think is the best way to go about it). However, the statement that there wouldn’t be stat grinds after Legendary by the creative lead directly contradicts the presumption made by the vagueness of this translated report, so it’s not like it’s a foregone conclusion.

They should be able to make more difficult content without mandating more powerful gear. If the monsters gain 100 damage and your new gear lets you ignore 100 more damage per hit, you haven’t really moved anywhere. And that’s the treadmill metaphor is apt.

Just thought I’d point that out, since a lot of people seem to have bought into the “need new gear to do harder content” myth.

aliksyian.7642:

They should be able to make more difficult content without mandating more powerful gear. If the monsters gain 100 damage and your new gear lets you ignore 100 more damage per hit, you haven’t really moved anywhere. And that’s the treadmill metaphor is apt.

Just thought I’d point that out, since a lot of people seem to have bought into the “need new gear to do harder content” myth.

So based off your logic we should be able to do level 80 content in level 1 gear?

Because I’m actually staying with the game I enjoy and I’m here for discussion. All of you are just whining “I’m leaving” repeatedly and not doing it.

Darknass.1903:

aliksyian.7642:

They should be able to make more difficult content without mandating more powerful gear. If the monsters gain 100 damage and your new gear lets you ignore 100 more damage per hit, you haven’t really moved anywhere. And that’s the treadmill metaphor is apt.

Just thought I’d point that out, since a lot of people seem to have bought into the “need new gear to do harder content” myth.

So based off your logic we should be able to do level 80 content in level 1 gear?

Your interpretation of his logic is irrational, i dont see anywhere in his post suggesting u should be able to do level 80 content with no level gear requirements.

Darknass.1903:

aliksyian.7642:

They should be able to make more difficult content without mandating more powerful gear. If the monsters gain 100 damage and your new gear lets you ignore 100 more damage per hit, you haven’t really moved anywhere. And that’s the treadmill metaphor is apt.

Just thought I’d point that out, since a lot of people seem to have bought into the “need new gear to do harder content” myth.

So based off your logic we should be able to do level 80 content in level 1 gear?

You fought level 34 creatures in GW1 on level 20. They added new PVE skills to compensate. Too much work for them though.

You guys think that ring is bad, have you check out Solaria Circle of the sun yet? It has even crazier stats and the infusion on the image was even worse …

E Tan.7385:

Derk.3189:

I’d encourage everyone to change their forum signatures to something that disapproves of Arenanet’s blatant lying for starters. Lets go towards boycotting the game from there.

Signature updated !.

good idea.

+1

(I think that’s how the mods said I had to word this when my last attempt was deleted)

Loosifah.4739:

Because I’m actually staying with the game I enjoy and I’m here for discussion. All of you are just whining “I’m leaving” repeatedly and not doing it.

How can u say you are here for discussion when ure just about to start a flame war?

kaffaljidhma.1496:

I thought that the official response was that the gear increase was a one time thing and that’s what we were discussing. Why are people getting back to gear treadmill as if there’s going to be another, higher stat item than ascended in the future?

Quoting from reddit:

https://forum-de.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Einige-Fragen-zum-November-Update-mit-Blick-auf-die-Zukunft/first#post158833

Google translate (and the very helpful infmelon) suggests:

They are explicitly not promising that Ascended gear will be the last item tier—they don’t want to make more promises that they can be accused of breaking later (like is happening this time). They note that in GW1, new gear was added over time—not a better-statted tier, but bonus combinations that weren’t available at release, like the +energy on staves.

New and existing content will be adjusted for the new tier. Old dungeons will likely be adjusted to still be worthwhile, but they’re not yet sure how. They see dungeon sets as non-obsolete because of the unique appearances.

They will look at how Ascended items affect the crafting skills, but there probably won’t be Ascended-related crafting adjustments this patch, even for Jewelers who are the most affected (what with Ascended rings being among the first Ascended items).

Q: What will happen when we’re done with the ascended tier—how will you satisfy the community desire for progression?
A: We’re focusing on progression content—so things like Fractals & Agony which gets harder. So the gear is just to serve the progression content.

Q: Ascended items fill the time gap, but why does that mean they have to have better stats?
A: They know there are different ways to fill the time gap, and were expecting different opinions on whether stat rises were the right choice—so they aren’t surprised by all the anger right now. As a side note, they are counting on the slow release of Ascended gear to contribute to the feeling of it being a longer-term goal than exotics.

Q:What about the triforge pendant?
A: they’re not planning on buffing it—it may be better than some of the early Ascended amulets. He points out that GW1 had some items that were valuable early on but later became less valuable, and some new items that were better than old items for some builds.

Edit1: changed point 2—looks like they are planning on changing dungeon armor, but not sure how.
Edit2: formatting blah
Edit3: Added a bit more on point 6.
Edit4: fixed crafting changes in point 3 and clarified the GW1 gear changes talked about in point 1. Edit 5: looks like Jewelers probably won’t get updated to Ascended tier this patch after all.
Edit 6: sounds like dungeon armor won’t necessarily be adjusted, but something in the dungeons will be (point 2)