Guild Wars 2

UNO.4906:

I don’t know what you did to our attributes on down-leveled character but lv.80 characters right now are pretty useless, the time it takes for a lv80 zerk ascen-exotic mixed char to kill a veteran is pretty much the same for a lv.11 in queensdale, Not to say you nerf us in advance by taking passive specialization attributes from us.

what does that mean?
leveling, gear customization are rendered useless right now, why armed to the teeth when lv.80 are forced to score like lv.11 no matter what gears we have?

LOL wait ….

So downscaled 80s were nerfed ? I haven’t even noticed, thanks for informing me. On the flipside, I would like to ask you to be more precise and specific in your post, it is too vague and requires more info as to where your specific issue is so the community can help you out a bit.

I personally run on ultra glass toons when doing open world stuff, its either zerker or sinister and half of em are in exotics only, not ascended. And I still completely own lower level events I should not be able to. Solo champs in fraction of time it takes to do so in SW, etc.

So what exactly and precisely is it that is causing you so much trouble ? Do you just stand there and hit 1 and expect everything to die ? Do you not dodge ? do you not use any abilities ? Do you not kite when soloing a melee based champ ? Be specific pls.

Also, no matter which trait line you picked, you can always switch just a single trait or 2 and then switch utility skills. And equipping a more survivable not traited weapon isnt going to be the end of the world either.

Tongku.5326:

UNO.4906:

I don’t know what you did to our attributes on down-leveled character but lv.80 characters right now are pretty useless, the time it takes for a lv80 zerk ascen-exotic mixed char to kill a veteran is pretty much the same for a lv.11 in queensdale, Not to say you nerf us in advance by taking passive specialization attributes from us.

what does that mean?
leveling, gear customization are rendered useless right now, why armed to the teeth when lv.80 are forced to score like lv.11 no matter what gears we have?

LOL wait ….

So downscaled 80s were nerfed ? I haven’t even noticed, thanks for informing me. On the flipside, I would like to ask you to be more precise and specific in your post, it is too vague and requires more info as to where your specific issue is so the community can help you out a bit.

I personally run on ultra glass toons when doing open world stuff, its either zerker or sinister and half of em are in exotics only, not ascended. And I still completely own lower level events I should not be able to. Solo champs in fraction of time it takes to do so in SW, etc.

So what exactly and precisely is it that is causing you so much trouble ? Do you just stand there and hit 1 and expect everything to die ? Do you not dodge ? do you not use any abilities ? Do you not kite when soloing a melee based champ ? Be specific pls.

Also, no matter which trait line you picked, you can always switch just a single trait or 2 and then switch utility skills. And equipping a more survivable not traited weapon isnt going to be the end of the world either.

It looks like you completely ignored the entirety of this thread. I posted visual proof of low level toons being more powerful. It isn’t a question of “I can’t kill stuff on my level 80.” It is a question of “This level 20 kills stuff faster than my level 80 and that is not acceptable.”

Dinks.2478:

Tongku.5326:

UNO.4906:

I don’t know what you did to our attributes on down-leveled character but lv.80 characters right now are pretty useless, the time it takes for a lv80 zerk ascen-exotic mixed char to kill a veteran is pretty much the same for a lv.11 in queensdale, Not to say you nerf us in advance by taking passive specialization attributes from us.

what does that mean?
leveling, gear customization are rendered useless right now, why armed to the teeth when lv.80 are forced to score like lv.11 no matter what gears we have?

LOL wait ….

So downscaled 80s were nerfed ? I haven’t even noticed, thanks for informing me. On the flipside, I would like to ask you to be more precise and specific in your post, it is too vague and requires more info as to where your specific issue is so the community can help you out a bit.

I personally run on ultra glass toons when doing open world stuff, its either zerker or sinister and half of em are in exotics only, not ascended. And I still completely own lower level events I should not be able to. Solo champs in fraction of time it takes to do so in SW, etc.

So what exactly and precisely is it that is causing you so much trouble ? Do you just stand there and hit 1 and expect everything to die ? Do you not dodge ? do you not use any abilities ? Do you not kite when soloing a melee based champ ? Be specific pls.

Also, no matter which trait line you picked, you can always switch just a single trait or 2 and then switch utility skills. And equipping a more survivable not traited weapon isnt going to be the end of the world either.

It looks like you completely ignored the entirety of this thread. I posted visual proof of low level toons being more powerful. It isn’t a question of “I can’t kill stuff on my level 80.” It is a question of “This level 20 kills stuff faster than my level 80 and that is not acceptable.”

You posted visual proof of a slight numerical advantage in one stat. You didn’t post visual proof that that actually makes a significant difference in kill time.

Dinks.2478:

Tongku.5326:

UNO.4906:

I don’t know what you did to our attributes on down-leveled character but lv.80 characters right now are pretty useless, the time it takes for a lv80 zerk ascen-exotic mixed char to kill a veteran is pretty much the same for a lv.11 in queensdale, Not to say you nerf us in advance by taking passive specialization attributes from us.

what does that mean?
leveling, gear customization are rendered useless right now, why armed to the teeth when lv.80 are forced to score like lv.11 no matter what gears we have?

LOL wait ….

So downscaled 80s were nerfed ? I haven’t even noticed, thanks for informing me. On the flipside, I would like to ask you to be more precise and specific in your post, it is too vague and requires more info as to where your specific issue is so the community can help you out a bit.

I personally run on ultra glass toons when doing open world stuff, its either zerker or sinister and half of em are in exotics only, not ascended. And I still completely own lower level events I should not be able to. Solo champs in fraction of time it takes to do so in SW, etc.

So what exactly and precisely is it that is causing you so much trouble ? Do you just stand there and hit 1 and expect everything to die ? Do you not dodge ? do you not use any abilities ? Do you not kite when soloing a melee based champ ? Be specific pls.

Also, no matter which trait line you picked, you can always switch just a single trait or 2 and then switch utility skills. And equipping a more survivable not traited weapon isnt going to be the end of the world either.

It looks like you completely ignored the entirety of this thread. I posted visual proof of low level toons being more powerful. It isn’t a question of “I can’t kill stuff on my level 80.” It is a question of “This level 20 kills stuff faster than my level 80 and that is not acceptable.”

You’d need a much larger sample size in order to have your visual proof. What you posted was a single image to back up your theory. No one involved in any sort of research would take that as proof of anything.

While levelling alts it was really frustrating to run towards a group of foes only to have them killed before I could tag even one of them. This was especially so when the daily was to complete events in low level areas.

I’m happy downscaling has been worked on further, even though I have no more alts to level now, but I think that is only solving the easy half of the problem. The other half of the problem is that there aren’t enough max level areas to keep us busy but hopefully HoT will fix that.

I really don’t mind it on my 80s, but I still think they screwed up bad by not downleveling gear on a slot by slot basis. As has been mentioned in many of these threads, actual leveling characters get screwed real bad as they level in areas unless they are constantly buying new gear at the TP to match their current level, as all the gear you are wearing gets downgraded by the same stupid ratio as soon as the downleveling kicks in. If you are un-twinked and wearing only found gear that varies widely in level, you end up being much, much less effective than a non downscaled player or a level 80 player for that matter.

Yesterday my guildies decided to go to Queensdale and do a jumping puzzle. They are all high level fractal players, full ascended and probably as much AR as possible. They set up their party, checked builds and gear, made sure they had consumables and everything ready. They had snacks and drink close by their desks and was on voice comms ready to go. While I’m no fractal or dungeon player at all, I do sometimes listen to them in hopes I pick up a trick or two.

I could hear that one of them was really nervous. He kept saying “I have a bad feeling about this” a couple of times. They had gathered at the portal out of Divinity’s Reach and a group leader said “we do not know exactly what awaits us on the other side of the portal, so immediately when we have all loaded in, we stack and blast”. 5 seconds after that I heard the nervous go something like “yaoourgghhh”. It was too much for him, he cracked and threw up. The team was 1 player short.

I had no choice than to help my friends. The only ascended gear I have is weapons and trinkets. My armor is exotic. My build and gear was for WvW so not optimal. They gave me 250 gold to get new armor, runes and sigils. 20 minutes later I was as ready as I can ever be. Full berserker armor, check, berserker weapons, check, strenght runes, check, and so on. Proudly I ran to the portal where they waited for me. The group leader gave a speech, to inspire us all and then we stepped into the swirling portal.

Immediately when we loaded in, we stacked. Our glorious leader was quick though and commanded us to run behind the closest building corner and stack there instead, and not in the open. We were soon sitting on 25 stacks of might and every other boon, plus probably a couple of more that doesn’t even exist yet. Slowly we made it from house to house, and then from tree to tree.

Eventually we made it to the garrison, where you fight the elemental in the beginning. Good lord, there were centaurs out in the field. We stacked up again, more boons and even more boons. We pulled the first centaur just to see what it would be like and all I can say is wow. That fight was epic. We had to pull every trick we have ever learned to beat the centaur. We only had 2 people down in our team. The mesmer took an arrow to her knee and I our guardian mistakenly blinded one of the patrolling Seraph soldiers in pure panic.

We had a little breather after the hectic combat, discussed what went good, what went bad and so on. Then panic struck us all. The centaur respawned. The battle that followed was epic. Our discussion after the first encounter really helped. The blinds were perfectly timed this time. Our mesmers Time Warp, it was timed just in pure symphony with the Panic Strike that triggered from my thief, that allowed us to burst down the centaur without any losses to our team.

Our Norn elementalist promised to write a epic saga of this and propose to Knut Whitebear to make it part of Norn lore. We will see about that. After all, its Queensdale we are in. Not sure Knut cares about Queensdale. I might have to take it up with the Queen I guess. Anyhow, feeling brave and inspired, we continued forward.

3 hours later we made it to the Demongrub Pits. We were exhausted to be honest, but very spirited and happy. We had conquered every low level enemy on our way there with minimal losses. I think on average we were downed maybe 9 times each. Only our elementalist got killed when our rangers pet decided to attack something completely different and accidently pulled 2 mobs on us. We all logged out at the entrance, at a safe spot, and we will continue our adventure tonight.

TL;DR: I get it, its a bit annoying when you normally just want to breeze through these zones when you are there. But in the end, its not a big deal. You have a working build with traits and everything unlocked, and you can probably just run and do your thing without caring anyway.

Dinks.2478:

Actually the point of leveling is to progress and become more powerful. I certainly didn’t level to become weaker.

That may be the point of leveling in other games, but not in this one. The point of leveling is opening up access to more content, including more complex game mechanics and additional traits, skills and equipment options to deal with whatever situation the game presents to you better.

You don’t become more powerful in this game by leveling. You don’t even become (significantly) more powerful by getting high-end equipment. The largest part of power you have in this game comes from your own developing skill, your understanding of your character and class and all the tools given to you, be they trait combinations, utilities, equipment, runes and sigils, movement and dodging, temporary buffs from food etc..

The price? The more options you open up by leveling, the more complex your understanding of the game has to be to actually come up with a really powerful combination tailor-made for the situation at hand. If you don’t understand your class, the game and the mechanic of the content you are facing any better than a lvl 21 and try to counter by playing the same way you did at level 21, then yes, you will be less powerful than a level 21 since you are not taking advantage of all the tools available to you at level 80.

Someone up-thread (forgot who it was) mentioned they compared their level 80 mesmer in meta-build to a level 21 in level 20 gear. What meta build? I would assume the dungeon build? I know my mesmers pretty well, play three of them in dungeons, but the dungeon meta build, optimised for a 5-man group in specific circumstances (esp. the fact that dungeon fights usually take place with everyone in melee, where open world certainly doesn’t) is not what I would take if I were to optimise any of my mesmers for open-world exploration.

On the other hand, why optimise for Queensdale exploration anyway? I’m just playing, not running from anything .

Rasimir.6239:

Dinks.2478:

Actually the point of leveling is to progress and become more powerful. I certainly didn’t level to become weaker.

That may be the point of leveling in other games, but not in this one. The point of leveling is opening up access to more content, including more complex game mechanics and additional traits, skills and equipment options to deal with whatever situation the game presents to you better.

You don’t become more powerful in this game by leveling. You don’t even become (significantly) more powerful by getting high-end equipment. The largest part of power you have in this game comes from your own developing skill, your understanding of your character and class and all the tools given to you, be they trait combinations, utilities, equipment, runes and sigils, movement and dodging, temporary buffs from food etc..

The price? The more options you open up by leveling, the more complex your understanding of the game has to be to actually come up with a really powerful combination tailor-made for the situation at hand. If you don’t understand your class, the game and the mechanic of the content you are facing any better than a lvl 21 and try to counter by playing the same way you did at level 21, then yes, you will be less powerful than a level 21 since you are not taking advantage of all the tools available to you at level 80.

Someone up-thread (forgot who it was) mentioned they compared their level 80 mesmer in meta-build to a level 21 in level 20 gear. What meta build? I would assume the dungeon build? I know my mesmers pretty well, play three of them in dungeons, but the dungeon meta build, optimised for a 5-man group in specific circumstances (esp. the fact that dungeon fights usually take place with everyone in melee, where open world certainly doesn’t) is not what I would take if I were to optimise any of my mesmers for open-world exploration.

On the other hand, why optimise for Queensdale exploration anyway? I’m just playing, not running from anything .

so you’re comparing soft indicators like “personal experience” and “knowledge of the game” to hard mathematical evidence of lower stat distribution between downscaled lvl 80 and genuine lvl 20

seems legit

krzygum.4028:

so you’re comparing soft indicators like “personal experience” and “knowledge of the game” to hard mathematical evidence of lower stat distribution between downscaled lvl 80 and genuine lvl 20

seems legit

Yes I am, because, as others already tried to point out to you, you have a lot more advantages at level 80 than mere stats. Cooldown reductions on weapon skills, offensive boons from skills/utilities etc. For example, a level 80 mesmer using greatsword has access to a skill that both reduces the cooldown on greatsword skills and gives might on auto attacks, both yours and your clones. Add to that the trait that produces clones on dodge roles, and you’ll be able to stack quite a bit of might on yourself, which gives a decent amount of power to you that.

If my rough calculations are correct, you’ll need around 5-6 stacks of might to make up for the lesser power shown in the screenshot earlier in this thread when scaled to around level 20. Seeing from the screenshot that the downscaled character also has higher precision, ferocity, crit chance and crit damage (among other things), adding a bit of might will easily make up for the difference in power. And you can always supplement with food (either +power or +might), sigils and runes.

I still see a level 80 that knows what they’re doing more powerful than the low-level character. If I play my lvl 21 or 29 mesmer (yes, I know I have way too many mesmers, let’s just say I like the class ), despite having spent hundreds of hours on the class and having the resources to outfit them with the best available at their level, they still aren’t as powerful as my level 80s since the 80s simply have tools available that make them much more versatile.

I actually enjoyed being strong in low level zones.

Now even killing portals on shadow behemoth is such an annoying effort I just sit there with the zerg and wait for his face to present itself to me so I can start stabbing it again.

I levelled up and got better gear because I wanted content to be easier, not because I wanted everything to remain a chore.

When I want a challenge I go and do something that presents one, I don’t want a challenge in a level 1-15 zone if I want to go and mine some copper.

I came back to the game 1 month ago and have levelled a mesmer and a warrior and haven’t experienced any of these issues with people supposedly griefing events by killing mobs before I can tag them. If the daily is to do events in the zone I’m levelling I was always happy because I could follow the zerg around and event farm while levelling.

Rasimir.6239:

krzygum.4028:

so you’re comparing soft indicators like “personal experience” and “knowledge of the game” to hard mathematical evidence of lower stat distribution between downscaled lvl 80 and genuine lvl 20

seems legit

Yes I am

thank you for your confirmation, the rest of the post is irrelevant to me

Real.5602:

I came back to the game 1 month ago and have levelled a mesmer and a warrior and haven’t experienced any of these issues with people supposedly griefing events by killing mobs before I can tag them. If the daily is to do events in the zone I’m levelling I was always happy because I could follow the zerg around and event farm while levelling.

Me neither. Those are virtual problems and at some point some individuals developed an opinion that the reason why they are unable to tag an event is because other players are too strong. It happens in lvl 80 areas also so the problem is some ppl were too slow to get to an event. Simple. In zerg situation your level has no impact because if you are too slow to join zerg they will kill your pray anyway, downscaled or not.

So if we assume that the only reason for this downscale change was daily event completer dillemas, I wonder why not simply change daily to be area specific instead of map specific. We had this before. We KNOW they can do this.

I’m waiting for today’s patch. I hope this whole downscale overtweak will be fixed so leveling becomes relevant again.

I was pleasantly surprised that my mesmer couldn’t use mirror blade, Pzerker, dodge in and mind wrack to kill the Corrupted Veteran Oakheart like he could before this “nerf.” Now it takes a whole 2 of those chains…sometimes even a Mind Stab.

I prefer 90% of the game not being oneshot central, thanks

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I prefer 90% of the game not being oneshot central, thanks

open world low lvl areas is hardly 90% of the game; I would call it a minor content

krzygum.4028:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I prefer 90% of the game not being oneshot central, thanks

open world low lvl areas is hardly 90% of the game; I would call it a minor content

You are downscaled wherever the content is not level 80. Before this trash mobs < 80 were tissue paper for most classes.

If you’re talking about -just- the low level areas, then that’s fine. But this is across the board for me and I enjoy the added difficulty even when I’m just passing through.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

krzygum.4028:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I prefer 90% of the game not being oneshot central, thanks

open world low lvl areas is hardly 90% of the game; I would call it a minor content

You are downscaled wherever the content is not level 80. Before this trash mobs < 80 were tissue paper for most classes.

Still not 90% of the game.
Still trash mob is exactly how you call it – trash.
Trash mob, trash loot. There will never be any challenge from trash mobs and any reason to kill them with more than 2 hits. No matter which level.

krzygum.4028:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

krzygum.4028:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I prefer 90% of the game not being oneshot central, thanks

open world low lvl areas is hardly 90% of the game; I would call it a minor content

You are downscaled wherever the content is not level 80. Before this trash mobs < 80 were tissue paper for most classes.

Still not 90% of the game.
Still trash mob is exactly how you call it – trash.
Trash mob, trash loot. There will never be any challenge from trash mobs and any reason to kill them with more than 2 hits. No matter which level.

You’re right, It’s more like 80% Still ok with having to actually do something when I’m not in the extremities of the world map instead of my usual “ignore it, sell inventory items” routine.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

krzygum.4028:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

krzygum.4028:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I prefer 90% of the game not being oneshot central, thanks

open world low lvl areas is hardly 90% of the game; I would call it a minor content

You are downscaled wherever the content is not level 80. Before this trash mobs < 80 were tissue paper for most classes.

Still not 90% of the game.
Still trash mob is exactly how you call it – trash.
Trash mob, trash loot. There will never be any challenge from trash mobs and any reason to kill them with more than 2 hits. No matter which level.

You’re right, It’s more like 80% Still ok with having to actually do something when I’m not in the extremities of the world map instead of my usual “ignore it, sell inventory items” routine.

And how over the top (bugged) downscaling is expanding available content?

It’s still not 80%. Open world is merely 25-30% of the game, mostly leveling.

krzygum.4028:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

krzygum.4028:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

krzygum.4028:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I prefer 90% of the game not being oneshot central, thanks

open world low lvl areas is hardly 90% of the game; I would call it a minor content

You are downscaled wherever the content is not level 80. Before this trash mobs < 80 were tissue paper for most classes.

Still not 90% of the game.
Still trash mob is exactly how you call it – trash.
Trash mob, trash loot. There will never be any challenge from trash mobs and any reason to kill them with more than 2 hits. No matter which level.

You’re right, It’s more like 80% Still ok with having to actually do something when I’m not in the extremities of the world map instead of my usual “ignore it, sell inventory items” routine.

And how over the top (bugged) downscaling is expanding available content?

It’s still not 80%. Open world is merely 25-30% of the game, mostly leveling.

Perhaps I’ve said something confusing.

I’m not talking about just Open World. You’re the one talking about that. I’m talking about all content where you are downscaled, which includes four dungeons.

When I say “I prefer 90% of the game not being oneshot central” I am talking about content relevant to the topic; namely, that content where players experience downscaling nerfs.

Content where this downscaling doesnt happen is irrelevant atm, like the content that upscales you.

Further, it’s not expanding available content. It’s just making it more enjoyable to do that content when we feel inclined.

You can’t one-shot in dungeons because mobs are “elite” status so dungeons are irrelevant in your equasion.

krzygum.4028:

You can’t one-shot in dungeons because mobs are “elite” status so dungeons are irrelevant in your equasion.

You still get downscaled in them and pre nerf they were still ridiculously easy. If you want to argue the meaning of “oneshot central” as it relates to my statement you can do that by yourself.

Fact of the matter is, I’m all for the difficulty spike so lower level areas arent a snoozefest.

The problem was, game never trully downscaled players, it was a funtionality that was announced within how would gw2 work… 2+ years later its working (suposelly).

Aeolus.3615:

The problem was, game never trully downscaled players, it was a funtionality that was announced within how would gw2 work… 2+ years later its working (suposelly).

All they need to do is mod the drop tables now, either toward improved mat drops for farmers or improved exotic drops across the board for 80s so there isnt reason to just pigeonhole up in Orr.

krzygum.4028:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I prefer 90% of the game not being oneshot central, thanks

open world low lvl areas is hardly 90% of the game; I would call it a minor content

Oh, minor content? Really? Let me remind you of this:

krzygum.4028

There is more <80 areas than lvl 80 areas in this game. So I am punished more than I’m rewarded. That’s lol indeed.

One day you’re punished for the majority of the content, the next that part’s minor.

And you have yet to answer my questions. Still. Your constant evasion is quite telling, you know.

tairneanach.8427:

krzygum.4028:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I prefer 90% of the game not being oneshot central, thanks

open world low lvl areas is hardly 90% of the game; I would call it a minor content

Oh, minor content? Really? Let me remind you of this:

krzygum.4028

There is more <80 areas than lvl 80 areas in this game. So I am punished more than I’m rewarded. That’s lol indeed.

One day you’re punished for the majority of the content, the next that part’s minor.

And you have yet to answer my questions. Still. Your constant evasion is quite telling, you know.

open world is minor content in comparison to all game modes.

80lvl areas are in minority in comparison to <80 lvl areas in open world

plz get some perspective

krzygum.4028:

Terrahero.9358:

It was suppose to be like this since launch.

Do you have any data or quote to prove this statement? Or is it a wild guess? Because I don’t see any comment from Anet that it’s a bug or intended change. I know it’s in patch notes but the nerf seems over the top and considering how many bugs were introduced 2 weeks ago the scaling can be bugged also.

No it’s not a wild guess. That is what they said when they explained downscaling, during interviews pre-launch.
It was part of their “everything is endgame” sales pitch.

Of course about two months post release they came out with ascended gear, which they then called endgame as well. So the definition of words are plastic, and change based on what they need to mean.

Terrahero.9358:

krzygum.4028:

Terrahero.9358:

It was suppose to be like this since launch.

Do you have any data or quote to prove this statement? Or is it a wild guess? Because I don’t see any comment from Anet that it’s a bug or intended change. I know it’s in patch notes but the nerf seems over the top and considering how many bugs were introduced 2 weeks ago the scaling can be bugged also.

No it’s not a wild guess. That is what they said when they explained downscaling, during interviews pre-launch.
It was part of their “everything is endgame” sales pitch.

Of course about two months post release they came out with ascended gear, which they then called endgame as well. So the definition of words are plastic, and change based on what they need to mean.

Which means you can’t explain last week patch with random interview 2 years ago because, as you mentioned, anet changes their minds. Many times. Check their stance about expansion year ago and today.

krzygum.4028:

tairneanach.8427:

krzygum.4028:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I prefer 90% of the game not being oneshot central, thanks

open world low lvl areas is hardly 90% of the game; I would call it a minor content

Oh, minor content? Really? Let me remind you of this:

krzygum.4028

There is more <80 areas than lvl 80 areas in this game. So I am punished more than I’m rewarded. That’s lol indeed.

One day you’re punished for the majority of the content, the next that part’s minor.

And you have yet to answer my questions. Still. Your constant evasion is quite telling, you know.

open world is minor content in comparison to all game modes.

80lvl areas are in minority in comparison to <80 lvl areas in open world

plz get some perspective

Oh, no, you’re not getting away this easily. That quote was specifically about open world low level areas.

If anything, you’re the one who needs to “get some perspective” – you’ve been complaining about a minor stat change post after post after post, even though that change does not make you weaker than others in any real sense, just because the numbers are slightly lower. Numbers, not maths, mind you, because for maths you need to actually finish the calculation, not stop part way through and call that a result.

tairneanach.8427:

krzygum.4028:

tairneanach.8427:

krzygum.4028:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I prefer 90% of the game not being oneshot central, thanks

open world low lvl areas is hardly 90% of the game; I would call it a minor content

Oh, minor content? Really? Let me remind you of this:

krzygum.4028

There is more <80 areas than lvl 80 areas in this game. So I am punished more than I’m rewarded. That’s lol indeed.

One day you’re punished for the majority of the content, the next that part’s minor.

And you have yet to answer my questions. Still. Your constant evasion is quite telling, you know.

open world is minor content in comparison to all game modes.

80lvl areas are in minority in comparison to <80 lvl areas in open world

plz get some perspective

Oh, no, you’re not getting away this easily. That quote was specifically about open world low level areas.

If anything, you’re the one who needs to “get some perspective” – you’ve been complaining about a minor stat change post after post after post, even though that change does not make you weaker than others in any real sense, just because the numbers are slightly lower. Numbers, not maths, mind you, because for maths you need to actually finish the calculation, not stop part way through and call that a result.

I think you need to calm down.

krzygum.4028:

I think you need to calm down.

Don’t worry your brain about me. It’s much too hot to get angry about someone like you. Emphasis =|= anger.

krzygum.4028:

Einlanzer.1627:

krzygum.4028:

I can accept or deny why anet put downscaling in this game. It doesn’t matter what I think about this. Or you. However when a change is made I can have an opinion if it is needed. I think the change to downscaling was needed for a long time however my opinion is it was overdone, it scales down too much and makes me question the goal of leveling. If a random lvl 20 character is equal or stronger than my lvl 80 toon with full ascended gear I should get a refund for all purchases I made for this character because they are pointless now in downscaled areas.

Draknar.5748:

Dinks.2478:

Draknar.5748:

I really don’t understand the people that say this makes lower level content too difficult. It’s like, Silverwastes, yea no that’s an OK difficulty, it’s level 80, the mobs are hard, but no one complains it is too hard.

They change down-scaling to essentially make it so that playing at a down-scaled level is actually like being that level and suddenly it’s the end of the world, the content is too hard, it’s like being crippled.

Like seriously? It literally took the downscaled content from facerolleasy, to just regular easy.

I wish people would get over this idea that because you are level 80 in max gear that you should somehow be a god walking around the lower level zones. Where monsters melt just from looking at you. If you want that, go play a game that doesn’t down-scale. You can AoE 1-shot all the grey mobs you want then.

Except nobody is asking to be gods, we’re asking to be more powerful than low level toons in green gear. You can ignore that fact for your own convenience all you want but it won’t change it. As it stands my level 21 mesmer in level 20 green gear does more than my full level 80 full exotic full meta build mesmer. Sorry, that is bogus and it needs to be fixed.

Except you have access to far more powerful traits and skills….

And in general you are likely a far better player who knows how to utilize proper skill rotation, combos, positioning, kiting, etc.

But if you want to completely focus on one aspect and compare the attack of a 21 mesmer vs an 80 mesmer, then sure, I guess then the level 21 mesmer is just so much better than your fully geared 80 mesmer… (even though your DPS will be far greater simply because of the traits and skills that have been unlocked)

Your whole argument boils down to: “Yea it’s easy, but I don’t like the fact that a low level character in level appropriate gear can auto-attack for more than I can because I’m a level 80 in the best gear and I need to feel like I am.”

Easy is easy. Who cares if it’s slightly easier for lower level characters. That’s the WHOLE point….

Those “powerful” traits are meaningless if they have underpowered base stat to scale from.

And I feel like your argument is “you are higher lvl, you play longer, you must be better/stronger – lets punish you for this”. This is exactly why some ppl are upset. We invested in our characters and now we are made in pair with lowbies – no matter if those are alts or new players. We put our time to lvl, to gear and explore this game. It is fully expected that we should be more powerful, not overpowered but stil more powerfull. Today the game punishes us for leveling our characters. Lol.

The fact that you need to feel elite in comparison to low level toons as opposed to just appreciating the content you unlock by leveling is really kind of sad.

Please show me where am I expressing my urge to feel elite. I am a total noob. Today the game punishes me for playing it because if I was a lowbie I would be stronger in the area I like to play in. This is ridiculous.

Lvl 20 should never be equal or stronger than lvl 80. I think this system is bugged and I’m waiting for confirmation from arena net if it is intended or is it bugged and when will be fixed.

If a level 20 is outperforming your 80 then the problem is obviously on your side.

You have access to stuff like Scholar Runes(10% damage, or any other runes with a flat out damage modifier), slaying/force runes (5-10% more damage, stack both then its 15-20% more), all traits,utilities & elites.

Go compare a lvl 20 and 80 ele and there is a huge difference. Full lava font uptime vs 66%, 10% on burning foes, 10% on fire attunement, access to fury(20% crit rate), 20% more damage on half hp enemy, 20% on disabled enemy(Frost Bow 5) , 10% on 90% hp, 10% on water attunement+vuln on enemy, etc.

I don’t see a lvl 80 not having a significant advatage even if his stats exactly matched a lvl 20.

Power is the only stat that matters in low lvl areas.

krzygum.4028:

Power is the only stat that matters in low lvl areas.

You repeating that like a mantra does not make it true. The difference in power doesn’t matter at all as long as the time it takes to kill a mob is comparable. And it is. People who don’t like the change have said so themselves. You’re just too stubborn to accept the facts, instead you try to hide behind irrelevant numbers and misdirection.

Annika.7084:

Players claim they used to one-shoot low-lvl mobs before although I’ve never seen it let alone one-shotted anything myself. Now IF is was possible, should I be able to one-shoot lvl 2 mobs? Of course, if my level is 40 times that of the mob.

But there’s this mechanic called downlevelling. The idea is that you get reduced in level to one fitting the area you’re in, so as to not make you trivialize and hence “outlevel” the content.

The idea behind that being that at lvl80, the world is really large comparing other MMOs because you can viably play in all zones.
You cannot do this if downleveling isn’t doing its job. That is, if zone X is significantly easier for me than zone Y, zone Y would need better rewards. But this then violates the idea of keeping the entire game world “current”, as that’d require the reward to not be a decisionmaker between zones. At least not based on level.

tairneanach.8427:

krzygum.4028:

Power is the only stat that matters in low lvl areas.

You repeating that like a mantra does not make it true. The difference in power doesn’t matter at all as long as the time it takes to kill a mob is comparable. And it is. People who don’t like the change have said so themselves. You’re just too stubborn to accept the facts, instead you try to hide behind irrelevant numbers and misdirection.

You don’t have to agree with me but it doesn’t make me wrong.

I still believe it is going to be hotfixed.

krzygum.4028:

tairneanach.8427:

krzygum.4028:

Power is the only stat that matters in low lvl areas.

You repeating that like a mantra does not make it true. The difference in power doesn’t matter at all as long as the time it takes to kill a mob is comparable. And it is. People who don’t like the change have said so themselves. You’re just too stubborn to accept the facts, instead you try to hide behind irrelevant numbers and misdirection.

You don’t have to agree with me but it doesn’t make me wrong.

I still believe it is going to be hotfixed.

You are factually wrong. Since the difference in power does not cause the downscaled player to need more time to defeat a mob, that difference does not matter. Either the difference is too small or other factors make up for it – no matter which of these is the cause, the bottom line’s the same: Power is not the only thing that matters.

You’re also factually wrong on the hotfix, since that would’ve happened by now. It may be tweaked or patched, but a hotfix is an emergency patch shortly after the fact.

Are you ready to answer my questions yet, by the way? What’s the point of downscaling if downscaled players are more powerful than the level they’re downscaled to? Have you tried comparing kill times yet?

tairneanach.8427:

krzygum.4028:

tairneanach.8427:

krzygum.4028:

Power is the only stat that matters in low lvl areas.

You repeating that like a mantra does not make it true. The difference in power doesn’t matter at all as long as the time it takes to kill a mob is comparable. And it is. People who don’t like the change have said so themselves. You’re just too stubborn to accept the facts, instead you try to hide behind irrelevant numbers and misdirection.

You don’t have to agree with me but it doesn’t make me wrong.

I still believe it is going to be hotfixed.

You are factually wrong. Since the difference in power does not cause the downscaled player to need more time to defeat a mob, that difference does not matter. Either the difference is too small or other factors make up for it – no matter which of these is the cause, the bottom line’s the same: Power is not the only thing that matters.

You’re also factually wrong on the hotfix, since that would’ve happened by now. It may be tweaked or patched, but a hotfix is an emergency patch shortly after the fact.

Are you ready to answer my questions yet, by the way? What’s the point of downscaling if downscaled players are more powerful than the level they’re downscaled to? Have you tried comparing kill times yet?

You have the right to voice your opinions, I voiced mine. I’m not angry at you, I don’t agree with but it’s okay, we can do this in free world. Peace.

tairneanach.8427:

krzygum.4028:

tairneanach.8427:

krzygum.4028:

Power is the only stat that matters in low lvl areas.

You repeating that like a mantra does not make it true. The difference in power doesn’t matter at all as long as the time it takes to kill a mob is comparable. And it is. People who don’t like the change have said so themselves. You’re just too stubborn to accept the facts, instead you try to hide behind irrelevant numbers and misdirection.

You don’t have to agree with me but it doesn’t make me wrong.

I still believe it is going to be hotfixed.

You are factually wrong. Since the difference in power does not cause the downscaled player to need more time to defeat a mob, that difference does not matter. Either the difference is too small or other factors make up for it – no matter which of these is the cause, the bottom line’s the same: Power is not the only thing that matters.

You’re also factually wrong on the hotfix, since that would’ve happened by now. It may be tweaked or patched, but a hotfix is an emergency patch shortly after the fact.

Are you ready to answer my questions yet, by the way? What’s the point of downscaling if downscaled players are more powerful than the level they’re downscaled to? Have you tried comparing kill times yet?

He is factually correct. My level 21 kills faster than my level 80 when facing level appropriate mobs. So if my lvl 80 is downscaled to 21 fighting level 21 mobs my level 80 hits less hard than my level 21 in greens. Simple mathematical fact, level 21s kill faster than 80s in level 21 zones.

krzygum.4028:

tairneanach.8427:

krzygum.4028:

tairneanach.8427:

krzygum.4028:

Power is the only stat that matters in low lvl areas.

You repeating that like a mantra does not make it true. The difference in power doesn’t matter at all as long as the time it takes to kill a mob is comparable. And it is. People who don’t like the change have said so themselves. You’re just too stubborn to accept the facts, instead you try to hide behind irrelevant numbers and misdirection.

You don’t have to agree with me but it doesn’t make me wrong.

I still believe it is going to be hotfixed.

You are factually wrong. Since the difference in power does not cause the downscaled player to need more time to defeat a mob, that difference does not matter. Either the difference is too small or other factors make up for it – no matter which of these is the cause, the bottom line’s the same: Power is not the only thing that matters.

You’re also factually wrong on the hotfix, since that would’ve happened by now. It may be tweaked or patched, but a hotfix is an emergency patch shortly after the fact.

Are you ready to answer my questions yet, by the way? What’s the point of downscaling if downscaled players are more powerful than the level they’re downscaled to? Have you tried comparing kill times yet?

You have the right to voice your opinions, I voiced mine. I’m not angry at you, I don’t agree with but it’s okay, we can do this in free world. Peace.

And you’re evading again. Is it really that hard to answer my questions? Makes your case look really weak, you know.

Dinks.2478:

He is factually correct. My level 21 kills faster than my level 80 when facing level appropriate mobs. So if my lvl 80 is downscaled to 21 fighting level 21 mobs my level 80 hits less hard than my level 21 in greens. Simple mathematical fact, level 21s kill faster than 80s in level 21 zones.

So far, the only proof you’ve provided for that is a screenshot of your stats. That does not take into account anything else. Maybe you’re dealing 10 damage less per hit, but the mob goes down in just as many hits. Have you actually tried it or are you just theorycrafting? Because when I tried it with a friend, we were both killing at about the same speed. And I’m not the only one. The OP, in case you forgot:

the time it takes for a lv80 zerk ascen-exotic mixed char to kill a veteran is pretty much the same for a lv.11 in queensdale

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/psa-All-buffs-not-on-buff-bar-are-broken/first#post5254743

As explained in that thread there’s currently at least one severe bug that affects scaling both ways, in PvE obviously only downwards. When it’s finally fixed I suggest all the jokesters who enjoyed it to equip white gear and/or remove traits next time they want to have a challenging, “fun” time in lowbie zones and leave the game as it been for 3 years for the rest of us. K thx.

Gambit.8425:

So what’s the point with excessive downscaling in the first place?

That even a LVL 80 should feel some sort of risk when entering even a low level exploitable zone. I also take issue that it is “excessive”, but that’s what this thread is about.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Gambit.8425:

So what’s the point with excessive downscaling in the first place?

That even a LVL 80 should feel some sort of risk when entering even a low level exploitable zone. I also take issue that it is “excessive”, but that’s what this thread is about.

I just posted above you about scaling being bugged so take my advice if you want to live on the edge as often in Queensdale as you appearently do in Cursed Shores or FGS xD

Gambit.8425:

Brother Grimm.5176:

Gambit.8425:

So what’s the point with excessive downscaling in the first place?

That even a LVL 80 should feel some sort of risk when entering even a low level exploitable zone. I also take issue that it is “excessive”, but that’s what this thread is about.

I just posted above you about scaling being bugged so take my advice if you want to live on the edge as often in Queensdale as you appearently do in Cursed Shores or FGS xD

I’m waiting for hotfix. I wish I could see faces of all the people defending current bugged system. Lol.

krzygum.4028:

I’m waiting for hotfix. I wish I could see faces of all the people defending current bugged system. Lol.

Don’t think they care tbh, sounds more like gloating while it last than anything else. If they really think there’s a challenge in lvl 80 zones today, it’s a personal problem with gear, traiting or active defense they might want to work on themselves.

The game has always been easy even against mobs several levels above while leveling. But being weaker than that after investing a lot of time to gear up you character is just tragic and bad business if it should’ve been intended.

krzygum.4028:

I’m waiting for hotfix. I wish I could see faces of all the people defending current bugged system. Lol.

Massive disappointment because then a clear MMORPG improvement was sacrificed to the whining of a few who cannot take a lack of power-growth in their games?

Gambit.8425:

The game has always been easy even against mobs several levels above while leveling. But being weaker than that after investing a lot of time to gear up you character is just tragic and bad business if it should’ve been intended.

Following the logic, it’s never ok to nerf (because then you’re weaker than before!), in general? Always buff everything else to compensate?

Doesn’t really sound sensible. If something is too strong, the logical reaction is to weaken it.
If players overperform when downleveled, then the logical answer is to make the downleveling stricter. The same applies in reverse mind you, and this still needs work. A lower-level player upleveled to lvl80 for WvW purposes has some perks a lvl80 can’t have, but they don’t make up for a lack of skills, traits and gear.

So according to today’s patch notes they adjusted the downscaling some… which is nice I suppose, except I don’t see or feel any difference.

So far, I’ve seen not much improvement on downscaling of fully equipped lvl 80.

My lvl 80 full berserker DPS elementalist will deal more damage on downscaled area than what same as area lvl full berserker DPS elementalist can do…